Is it legal to make a left turn when it’s a red light, but there is no turning light?
Posted by seashia@reddit | driving | View on Reddit | 58 comments
so this happens usually right when traffic comes to a red light, and it’s seconds before the light turns green for the other drivers. (+ pattern) There’s no left light whatsoever, so it’s one of those turn when u deem safe situations. If by taking the opportunity to turn (I myself have done and witness others do it in both camera and non camera areas) is that okay as long as ur aware of the risks and such, or is it an illegal practice that people do just cause? Ty!
Senior-Dimension2332@reddit
I assume you mean that you had a green light, pulled out into the intersection to wait for an opening, and then waited to turn once the light above you was red, stopping oncoming traffic, and then turning once it was safe and clear that everyone had stopped?
It is lawful to enter the intersection while it is green, and it is lawful to clear an intersection only when it is safe for you to do so. If it was never safe until it turned red and the oncoming traffic had fully cleared the intersection it is my understanding that it's a lawful maneuver.
There are intersections without a protected left turn that, at certain times of day, would never allow anyone to make a left unless they did the above maneuver.
seashia@reddit (OP)
Basically the driver that wants to turn left is waiting until it’s safe to do so (let’s say while the light is their green, it wasn’t safe to turn, but as the light turns red and it is clear the cars coming the other way are coming to a stop, the driver makes the decision to turn (even though it’s not their light anymore, but the light is seconds away from turning green for the drivers going the perpendicular direction). If they are both in the middle of the intersection or still behind the line is that fine to do so?
Whatever92592@reddit
No. It's a red light. No. It's a red light. No. It's a red light.
Got it?
SalamanderPop@reddit
r/confidently incorrect
Whatever92592@reddit
Turning left on a red light? As OP described?
Prove it.
SalamanderPop@reddit
The driver enters into the intersection while the light is green waiting for a clearing to turn left. While waiting the light turns red. Opposing traffic stops, OP is required to continue out of the intersection competing his turn. This is legal, and even encouraged in some states like Illinois.
Whatever92592@reddit
That is not the scenario the OP described. I am quite familiar with how to turn left in the situation you described.
SalamanderPop@reddit
OPs description isn't great, but that is what they describe in the comments you were replying to. But anyway here's another comment for you to do your lone obvious down vote.
Have a day.
seashia@reddit (OP)
Ehh okay
SalamanderPop@reddit
In some states it's legal to creep into the intersection about one third of the way while the light is green waiting for a clearing to make your left turn. If, while waiting, the light turns red then all vehicles currently in the intersection have the right of way to clear the intersection before more cars enter. In some states, as I understand it, creeping out into the intersection while it's green is not legal.
In Illinois, for instance, we can legally enter into the intersection to wait for a clearing to turn left.
deedledeedledav@reddit
Just remember the intersection is not the line. That’s the stop line/crosswalk line.
The intersection is typically an invisible line from the corners of the intersection itself, typically 10-20 feet past that white line.
If you have red light cameras that they paint the lines on the ground, THATS the intersection line
Trevski@reddit
If you’re behind the line then you can’t go over the line while the light is red. If you’re over the line you have to clear the intersection as soon as it’s safe to.
Senior-Dimension2332@reddit
Yes, because you entered the intersection on a green light by pulling up past the solid white stop line. Once you're there you've legally entered the intersection and would be in a dangerous place/blocking perpendicular traffic if you stayed in place once the light was red. You are legally allowed to clear an intersection no matter what the lights are doing because that is the safest thing for everyone involved. It being a legal action depends upon how you got into the intersection in the first place.
Basically, if you entered the intersection legally on a green light but had to wait for a pedestrian or other traffic to complete the turn, you can complete it after your light turns red to clear the intersection, and in most places this should be legal. You'll just have to do some local research to make sure that applies to where you live.
seashia@reddit (OP)
Ahh okay I get it now. Tysm!
Necro_the_Pyro@reddit
This is incorrect. You can't just cherry pick the laws, you have to follow all of them. The law about entering the intersection while it is green and exiting when it is red is meant for when it turns while you are in the process of crossing the intersection. There is another law that for some reason you all ignore when making this argument, about not coming to a stop inside intersections or otherwise blocking them.
Sp_nach@reddit
If it's red you never are legally allowed to turn left in the US, as far as I am aware.
kilerzone1213@reddit
Unless it’s one of those u turn lanes.
seashia@reddit (OP)
So does that end up being a fine/ ticket/ or does it depend on the region?
bothunter@reddit
Unless it's on to a one-way street(depending on the state -- Washington allows it for example)
Edit67@reddit
Where I live in Ontario, that is only from one way street to another one way street. So not crossing any lanes of traffic. Otherwise, yes.
banjo_hero@reddit
are you asking if you can run a red light? jfc we are doomed
seashia@reddit (OP)
It’s before the light turns green tho! Pardon me if I was only taught how to make right turns, U-turn, and parallel park, in order to get my license, as my multiple instructors had advised me that’s all that mattered 😳
mrford86@reddit
I guarantee you this was in your written test.
nasadowsk@reddit
He's asking if you can turn left on a red light. In Pennsylvania, it is in fact legal in the case of:
You are on a one way street, and in the leftmost lane.
AND
The street you are turning onto is one way
AND
There is no sign prohibiting it.
Prinzka@reddit
Not only is it obviously illegal (like, you know this, you didn't have to ask that question), in Ontario this specific manoeuvre counts as stunt driving (roadside license suspension, 10k fine.).
Alpine_Nomad@reddit
The way it's worded is confusing, but OP is actually asking about the normal & completely legal (in most places) process to make an unprotected left turn. I'm not sure about Ontario, but the driver handbook for BC says you're legally allowed to complete your left turn after the light turns red. It is also mentioned in the driver handbook for several states.
Prinzka@reddit
OP specifically mentions entering the intersection just prior to the light turning red.
Not challenging an intersection with an unprotected left while you have a green light.
They're entering the intersection on a red to quickly make the left turn before their own (and oncoming) light turns green. So quite possibly while cross traffic (coming from left and right) still actually has a yellow light.
Alpine_Nomad@reddit
OP said it is "before the light turns green for the other drivers." It is not jumping their own green light. It's completing a left turn after the light turns red and before cross traffic (i.e. "other drivers") get a green light. OP has also clarified this in other comments.
Prinzka@reddit
If you mean OP changed the scenario then ok 🤷🏽
In their original post they say "when traffic comes to a red light"
Trevski@reddit
It’s not obviously illegal it’s generally illegal though
Prinzka@reddit
It's obviously illegal if you got your license properly.
If you just paid someone for it then yeah I guess it might not be obvious.
But that would also mean you'd never participated in traffic at all, not as a passenger, not as a cyclist, or a pedestrian.
And also somehow managed to avoid movies and shows with traffic lights.
Also, if you're in an English speaking the amount of sayings and terms that use red light to mean stop is huge.
Based on that from what I can tell this person lives in America, it's astounding that this wouldn't be obvious.
Trevski@reddit
It’s legal where I live if you’re turning onto a one-way. So how’s that for obvious? Different places have different laws.
Prinzka@reddit
Yes, in certain locations in a specific situation.
Going from a one-way to another one-way.
That's not the situation that OP described though.
Hence OP's situation should be obviously illegal to anyone with a driver's license.
Trevski@reddit
I didn’t say from a one way. Obviously it doesn’t need to be from a one way, obviously it needs to be TO a one way though. See how obvious it is?
seashia@reddit (OP)
If I didn’t know I wouldn’t have asked ?
Prinzka@reddit
You didn't know that driving through a red light was illegal?
seashia@reddit (OP)
No. Because I have seen other drivers do it, and assumed it was okay for a while, then I wanted clarification, and proceeded to ask others.
Prinzka@reddit
I don't understand.
What do you think a red light means?
Where did you get your driver's license?
Neither-Way-4889@reddit
Did you not pay attention at all to the rules of the road?
seashia@reddit (OP)
I’m paying attention to the way others drive which prompted my question
DefinableEel1@reddit
Yesno? I mean if it’s red before you even make it to the stop line then yes.
Only exception I know is that let’s say the meter is yellow, and you’re already passed the stop line and then it turns red, you can legally turn left then because you’re pretty much a road hazard lol
375InStroke@reddit
Sounds like you mean that you are waiting in the intersection to make your left turn, correct? If you're waiting at the stop line, then no. You need to pull forward and wait in the intersection. You were in the intersection when it was green, so you're fine.
seashia@reddit (OP)
Yes there’s a lane for left turns but no designated light, and I’m talking in both scenarios where u have to turn in either a 2 way or 1 way.
375InStroke@reddit
Just pull forward so everyone knows your intentions. If you wait at the stop line, and the light turns from green to red, you cannot go. Check to make sure the lane you're going to turn into isn't going to be backed up, leaving you stuck in the intersection with no place to go. Some people are brain dead, and refuse to pull forward when they can totally see down the road that it's clear. Don't be like that. Just look first, and if the light turns red, make sure the oncoming traffic is going to stop.
seashia@reddit (OP)
Then proceed when safe?
Alpine_Nomad@reddit
Yes, keep your wheels straight, and don't enter the oncoming lane until you're ready to complete the turn.
gekco01@reddit
It really depends on your local laws, but I can't think of a place that legally allows a left on red, unless it's turning onto a one-way road from a one-way road.
Neither-Way-4889@reddit
Why would there be a traffic light between two one way roads?
deedledeedledav@reddit
Downtown areas To allow for people to cross and for the one way roads to be crossed without chaos
There’s numerous reasons
gekco01@reddit
To control which lane gets to go? One way roads still have intersections.
dpdxguy@reddit
To control the flow of traffic at the intersection of the two one way roads?
deedledeedledav@reddit
It depends. Regarding right driving countries not typically.
Some states like Michigan allow for two-way and one-way roads to turn onto a one-way road as long as it’s clear and there aren’t signs that specifically call out no turn on red.
I don’t know of any location that allows for turning left on a light other than the situations I’ve listed above though.
A good example of when it’s allowed is a “Michigan Left” if you want to google that. A lot of the left turns there are actually u-turns disguised as a “left-turn” and they’ll tend to prohibit major intersections from allowing lefts to avoid accidents (makes them turn right and then do a U-turn at the designated spot instead of a left)
Sea_Competition_2751@reddit
US/Canada driving laws are practically 1:1/exactly the same, so I don’t imagine that being allowed there
You’d have to wait for it to turn green, and then yield to oncoming traffic before making a left turn (unless there’s an advance arrow light)
Rokdog55@reddit
NO! And it's a dick move when people turning left scoot across as soon as it turns green!
Neither-Way-4889@reddit
No, it is not legal to do that.
Signal_Tomorrow_2138@reddit
You can't legally enter the intersection if the light is red or about to turn red. You're not supposed to enter if it's yellow either if you can avoid it ( many times you CAN avoid it but too many drivers ignore that).
But if you are already in the intersection and the light turns red, traffic laws give those in the intersection the right of way to clear the intersection.
Unfortunate-Incident@reddit
No. Turning left on a red light is illegal. There is no gray area here imo. Yes you can go back to back to back through a just turned red light and it's relatively safe. Nobody is going to plow into just because their light turned green.
Still illegal though
Z_Clipped@reddit
The one time I believe it's allowed for a line of traffic to continue through a light that has turned red after the first car has gone is when you're part of a marked funeral procession or other similar parade group. It may not be the case in every state, but it is in mine.