Traffic plans for driving Maple Avenue near the Southwestern Medical District has hospitals concerned
Posted by dallasmorningnews@reddit | Dallas | View on Reddit | 33 comments
Our Amber Gaudet writes:
Three Dallas hospitals have joined the list of locals who have raised questions about a proposal by city officials to reduce traffic flow near the Southwestern Medical District.
The ‘road diet’ proposed by staff would reduce the number of lanes on the 2.4 mile stretch of Maple Avenue between Mockingbird Lane and Oak Lawn Avenue from four to three with a turn lane and add bike lanes to the busy street. But a spokesperson for the district, home to the Children’s Medical Center, Parkland Hospital and UT Southwestern Medical Center, say the plan would have a “significant impact” on the area.
The proposal is aimed at curbing crashes along the corridor, which is a hot spot for pedestrian deaths and serious injuries.
BudgetScience2000@reddit
One might recall that a crucial section of Medical District Drive between I-35E and the hospitals was under construction from 2018 to the present year, during which time, a very long time, multiple lanes were blocked off. Yet the hospitals seem to have thrived: patients still came, ambulances made it through, staff didn't quit en masse due to the congestion on Medical District Drive (which was frequently quite bad).
Reconfiguring Maple Avenue might even improve emergency vehicle response times. Adding a continuous turn lane (which ambulances can use to get around jammed cars), bike lanes on either side (which make it easier for cars to pull over to let an ambulance past), plus traffic signal upgrades to allow the lights to be timed properly for smooth traffic flow (maybe even controlled by ambulances). And who knows, with safer streets we might even have fewer people needing to be whisked to the hospital after a car crash. Yet according to Southwestern Medical District Chairman David Biegler, all this is "NOT ACCEPTABLE". Hardly the evidence-based approach to public health that we might expect from such a figure.
Unlucky-Watercress30@reddit
Actually the better thing to do would be to make the bike lanes protected (so cars CANT get into them) but to make them wide enough for an ambulance to go down, since bicyclists can get out of the way much more easily than cars can. While there isn't enough room to make each bike lane wide enough for this, a 2 way dedicated bike lane on one side of the road is typically as wide as a single car lane, allowing the ambulance to easily fit.
For reference to how this works in reality, look at how the Dutch with their overcrowded bike paths and bike lanes manage to essentially use them as express lanes for emergency vehicles, especially since cyclists aren't in a soundproofed vehicle so they hear the siren much earlier and have more time to react
BudgetScience2000@reddit
Totally agree. However this is Dallas and from what I understood at the last public meeting, this is mostly a paint and traffic signals project, little to no concrete work. Meaning if bike lanes happen, if we're lucky we get those little hard rubber "armadillo" separators like were put in on Medical District Drive just east of I-35E.
Unlucky-Watercress30@reddit
Yeah that's my fear as well. Hopefully someone can convince them to put in the tall plastic separators in addition to those, but honestly it's probably not too likely
BudgetScience2000@reddit
I think the amadillos are a modest improvement over flexposts ("car ticklers"). They both deter cars to an extent, but the armadillos stand up to more abuse and have a longer lifespan (good because the city doesn't maintain them either way). Plus transit and emergency vehicles can simply run over them as needed. DART buses do this routinely at stops in order to pull up next to the curb.
I've also noticed that the most insecure and easily triggered drivers tend to baby their vehicles. Anecdotally I see cheap sedans taking speed bumps much more casually than lifted pickups. So the armadillos are more effective than they look. (Heavy doses of copium here...)
Unlucky-Watercress30@reddit
This is an accurate assessment of their effectiveness, but that's why I said I wish they'd do both. The armadillos provide the better barrier while the flex poles are far more visible and create a more easily felt barrier. Also, the flex poles will hold up better if the armadillos are there to actually punish drivers for going through them.
saxmanB737@reddit
They have a concern about reducing pedestrian and other vehicle crashes? Are they short patients?
noncongruent@reddit
They're probably thinking about how their employees and contractors will get to work, and throttling traffic access in the area will make it harder for them to recruit workers.
TakeATrainOrBusFFS@reddit
If only the Medical district had some kind of a train station right in the middle of it
noncongruent@reddit
Limiting the talent pool that can be recruited from to just those people who can use transit is still limiting the ability to recruit. Keep in mind that the subset of people for which transit is a viable replacement for a car is small relative to the entire labor pool in the area.
SilverBubble1@reddit
Is this cara mendelsons alt or smthn? lol
TakeATrainOrBusFFS@reddit
If they can drive to the hospital district, they can drive to a nearby park and ride, yes? It’s not a perfect solution, but shifting some commuters from driving to transit necessarily requires change.
noncongruent@reddit
Sure, there's lot of things they could do, but the most likely thing they'll do is go look for a job someplace else. The most valuable thing most people have is time, which is why people spend big money on things that save time like washing machines and personal cars. The whole reason transit lost out to personal cars is because cars offer time savings and schedule/destination flexibility that transit never could and still can't. Most people would rather live a life built around their own schedules and needs than one built around transit schedules and stops. Also, personal cars eliminated the ability for businesses to have captive labor pools, so now businesses have to compete for workers across a much larger area. If the only workers you can hire are those that can use transit then you're going to suffer as a business. This isn't an anti-transit or pro-car stance, this is just simple personal logistics and reality in today's modern mobile world. If transit wants to compete it will have to do so on a fair and level playing field. Kicking the legs out from under personal cars won't work because people will just leave for somewhere else.
Unlucky-Watercress30@reddit
Right... all these medical workers will go to Houston instead or something?
The Dallas medical district has a lot of specialty positions and frankly is one of the biggest employers in the metroplex. People will still try and work there. Adding a few minutes to their commute isn't going to change that decision or the incentives since the medical industry is highly concentrated. Not to mention that there's still plenty of other roads for accessing the medical district. This just gives pedestrians and bicyclists a way to access and get around the medical district with somewhat similar ease to those who drive.
Hell, my company relocated to a building that was 20 minutes away from the old one and there wasn't a single person who quit over it (although wfh did increase a little bit, I will admit).
Ferrari_McFly@reddit
Agreed, gotta start somewhere. Everyone complains about how car-centric Dallas is and demand change, but when small efforts are proposed, there’s pushback so like…
Just imagine the potential sum of all of these incremental efforts to drive up DART ridership.
TakeATrainOrBusFFS@reddit
Right.
I’m tired of “I wish Dallas was more walkable and had less traffic, but only if literally nothing else changes.”
robak69@reddit
I really thought market center was the only dart stop that was close. Wow.
AbueloOdin@reddit
They have a dedicated exit off of 35, easy access from three more exits, exist at the corner of Inwood and Harry Hines, and have both a dedicated DART stop (with both Orange and Green lines halving the usual headways) and a TRE stop. And an internal shuttle system on dedicated grade separated roads.
You could replace Maple with a canyon and probably make due.
Meanwhile, Maple does 10k cars a day (TxDOT) at Inwood, below other DOT maximum capacity recommendations for road diets. Highway Capacity for two lanes with turning lane is 16k. Even with some flex on both numbers, there shouldn't be a concern with car capacity on the road.
dallasmorningnews@reddit (OP)
We also have an opinion today from Louis H. Lebowitz is president of SLJ Company, a commercial real estate brokerage, investment and development firm in Dallas.
Find it here.
HoneyIShrunkMyNads@reddit
As somebody who lives right in the middle of this stretch of maple ave, the two lanes are already pretty swamped during busy hours.
Cutting down to one lane each way would be such a pain in the ass for taking maple
Unlucky-Watercress30@reddit
I feel like I should also mention that reducing lanes can actually make traffic flow smoother depending on the previous layout of the road. If my understanding is correct then stripping the left lanes will allow the creation of dedicated turn lanes which don't currently exist, which will allow much smoother flows of traffic through intersections which function as the main bottleneck of any road. Plus, with fewer lanes there's less need for traffic lights or more flexibility in what the traffic signal timings are, allowing for the focus on smooth flows rather than raw capacity to reduce traffic
Unlucky-Watercress30@reddit
The idea is to make it so that less people take their cars on maple. Bike lanes have a surprising amount of capacity if their utilized. The only question is whether these bike lanes will be well connected enough to destinations or other bike networks for them to actually get used enough to balance out the traffic.
oakcliffian@reddit
Will this be a problem for the EMS? Driving through to get to hospitals?
gearpitch@reddit
It adds a middle shared turn lane, which can basically become an ambulance lane to get around car traffic. It may actually help ems
unserious@reddit
The real issue is the people that walk in the middle of the street with no warning between Wycliff and Medical District Drive. Less lanes will help but it’s still not getting to the root of the problem.
TakeATrainOrBusFFS@reddit
Yes, lots of people there cross the road at non-crossings. But you’re not going to fix it by asking them to stop. Signage won’t help, and involving law enforcement just for this isn’t cost-effective.
When you see people continually do something like this, you have to ask why. Are there not enough safe crossings? (The city is adding one if I recall.) Are the timings on the crossings too long? They’re doing this for a reason, and it’s probably largely a street design reason.
Speed is the single biggest factor in traffic fatalities in Dallas, so we need to slow traffic on that road, or I guess just accept that our city is going to keep killing people because getting somewhere a few minutes earlier is more important.
tyler_russell52@reddit
The hospital is pro people getting gravely injured.
YaGetSkeeted0n@reddit
Next they’ll agitate to allow tobacco advertising in kids’ shows again
potatocakes898@reddit
I used to drive maple every day to get home. I had to make a left turn at a light on maple to get home and there would be a turn light, but if you missed it, people behind you would lose their shit because a lane of traffic was essentially blocked until it was safe to turn left. A dedicated left turn lane would be great and having dedicated bike lanes would give employees that live nearby a safer way to get to work without a car. However Dallas often is short sighted when they implement things. They fix one problem but create 5 more, so hopefully this has been thoroughly planned to ensure increased traffic on other roads or a bottle neck on maple doesn’t increase traffic issues.
HermannZeGermann@reddit
Ohhh another Johnny Come Lately!
This traffic plan has been discussed ad nauseum for years, in town halls and public fora and neighborhood committees and city hall committee meetings. The time to bring this up was years ago -- and it's not like the Medical District hasn't had open communications with the City on every other issue affecting the hospitals. They had their chance for years to say their piece, and they didn't.
2manyfelines@reddit
How would people get to Love Field?
TakeATrainOrBusFFS@reddit
Would a dedicated lane for buses, bikes, and emergency vehicles alleviate this concern?
We need as many folks as possible in this conversation. The Dallas Bicycle Coalition in particular is following and engaging on this, and I and many others have responded to their calls to action to attend meetings and contact city council members about it. You can follow them on Instagram or get on their newsletter.
Traffic fatalities kill more people in Dallas than violent crime. Something has to change.
matt_havener@reddit
Is the 5 lane highway (35) or 3 lane road (harry hines) not enough? Can pedestrians and bikes have one street?