You’ll have to inflate the automatic pilot; there’s a valve on the belt line…

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elvenmaster_@reddit

There's a long white stripe of white land on the right. Can I land there ?

There's also a passenger with a can of grape juice and a nail trim file. (This quote might be more familiar to French speaking people)

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Thank you. Thanks to your reference, I found Têtes a Claques again after 15 years. I used to love these guys and watched many videos but long forgot the name and was never able to find any of their videos just by searching for keywords. You’re a legend! 🙌🏼🤙🏼❤️

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azefull@reddit

Elle vient d’où cette phrase stp?🙂 Je n’ai pas la référence.

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Mindless_Flow_lrt@reddit

Et hop !

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Moose135A@reddit

Sorry for your loss. It's been a long time, but I always loved flying the old tanker!

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Marigoldspanties@reddit

swoop low to the sea, sweep vertically hard with no power

have escape route ready and bail as the plane slows and jump out

bang yourself out from the spin and track away, using table clothes tied to you as a wingsuit

pop lifejacket when you hit water gently

wake up from dream

cancel your flight and book a train ticket

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classic_lurker@reddit

My suggestion would be much nicer, ask that cute FA how fast you should hit the water for them to be able to use that cute jumping castle door exit. When they don’t have an answer pick your own speed… Mach 0.8? Cool, 35 knots? Also cool, 345kmh? Also cool. 800 freedom units? That’s gunna be a problem.

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dependsforadults@reddit

You mean D E D ded? Damn bro, yer facked

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Icy_Huckleberry_8049@reddit

Inflate Otto

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BigGuyWhoKills@reddit

Without GPS?

At night, keep the north star at 40° above the horizon and perfectly off your right wing if heading to the Americas or off your left wing if heading to Europe.

homogenousmoss@reddit

CAUTION TERRAIN CAUTION TERRAIN TERRAIN TERRAIN PULL UP, PULL UP wheep wheep PULL U, PULL UP

I’d rather die honestly

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morane-saulnier@reddit

my plan is to drop down to \~2000 feet

TERRAIN... PULL UP... PULL UP...

TheMightyHornet@reddit

Easily his last time, too.

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LiamDotComX@reddit

First time I heard this was watching a video of an Airbus landing and it made me chuckle.

20 feet. Retard. 10 feet. Retard.

At the very least you could YouTube it at that point

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Level_Up_IT@reddit

cell service

You can't connect while flying because your phone needs to know which cell tower to talk to; at those speeds you're passing the cell towers too quickly to maintain a connection and call someone. The cell towers can pass you from one to another (as happens when you're in the car) but this happens at too slow of a speed.

not a pilot, just smarter than the average man who thinks he can land a plane.

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Talidel@reddit

If the plane has the internet, you can make a call.

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bmorebredmon@reddit

Bro, thank you for this. I just had to keep sweet tea from shooting out of my nose.

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taft@reddit

“help me!”

Plane: "BWOOP BWOOP TERRAIN PULL UP"

Average guy: typing "how to land a plane" into YouTube

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JimMc0@reddit

They won't need to call for you bro, you'd have already successfully landed. There are many countries where 2000ft barometric will put you into the ground.

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Fonzie1225@reddit

that’s why i’ve asked the flight attendant to google “how to find radar altitude in 737-800” and let’s just hope she gets enough service before we find out one way or another

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Nearlytherejustabit@reddit

Lol, I think this might earn you a free fighter escourt.

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Outside-Advice8203@reddit

I saw a YouTube video about how to survive a fall from a plane without a parachute. It started off with something like "you have roughly 45 seconds before you hit the ground"

you’d just need to figure out where the transmit button is

There's two buttons on the sidestick: one is push-to-talk, the other one is autopilot disconnect. (This is a fact, not a joke.) Good luck!

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BosnianSerb31@reddit

Auto pilot has to be disconnected at some point for you to land the plane, no way they're talking instructing on an automated landing over ATC during an emergency

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Jango214@reddit

Lol are they side by side? On Airbus?

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Cerarai@reddit

No, the AP disconnect is a big red button on the front side of the stick, while the Radio button is at the back.

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Underhill42@reddit

Oh, lovely. So in the not-unheard-of case that something happens to the pilots so that an amateur has to take control...

What is now probably the single most important control in the cockpit isn't even visible?

Who do they hire to design these things?!?

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Cerarai@reddit

Oh, lovely. So in the not-unheard-of case that something happens to the pilots so that an amateur has to take control...

wayoverpaid@reddit

If this is talking about the survey I think it is, this is the original question.

https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2023/01/02/fd798/3

The ATC control help is baked into the question. And also note that "not very confident" and "somewhat confident" is all rolled up into "think they can"

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AmbitiousJuly@reddit

"Not very confident" is also rolled up into "think they can" here. Because very confident and somewhat confident only add up to 32% which is nowhere near 50%.

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wayoverpaid@reddit

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tribat@reddit

As usual, hero is in the comments.

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LJD_c90T@reddit

Man: “If I had guidance from ATC talking me through everything, I think I could possibly have a chance at making a rough landing “ Media: “This guy thinks he can land a plane in an emergency”

Radio is always on. The mic says push to talk as long as the aircraft is properly maintained.

This would be the issue I could see happening. A bunch of simmers arguing over who should land the plane. "I've been playing MSFS since '95!" "Dude you're 70 years old, can you even hear or see?" Etc etc etc.

We'd all go down because some spectrum challenged weeb would yank the yoke to go to a full nose dive.

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AviatorFox@reddit

Well, in that case I sincerely hope the FAs would put their foot down and just try their best themselves. 😂

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Yes, the do. I can reach dispatch, ATC, maintenance and a number of others with the push of a few buttons.

A flight attendant would have no idea how to access that though.

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AviatorFox@reddit

Yes.... They do.... I'm not aware of any available from a FAD though.

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flightwatcher45@reddit

Might have satellite/starlink or maybe low enough to cell/text. If whoever was in the seat put the headset on and mashed enough buttons they might figure it out too, especially if ground/other aircraft were trying to reach them.

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TimeSpacePilot@reddit

Mashing buttons isn’t going to tune in a radio 😂

Randomly mashing buttons will quickly cause more harm than good.

Strictly speaking it isn't the hardest thing to figure out, it's just the only thing you have to figure out without help from the ground.

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flyinhighaskmeY@reddit

It is ironic the hardest thing to figure out on a modern aircraft is the ancient radio haha

It's easy. You just have to start with an "Uhhhh, this is the captain speaking."

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Suspicious-Leg-493@reddit

because it’s unlikely that a layperson would even know how to operate the radios.

They might not know how to find the button, but the radio is simple to operate (if already in flight) as all the frequencies are already set since they need to be in contact with ATC (or rather have a line open) at all times.

And the (main) PTT button is almost always right underneath a thumb

There are alooot of issues with landing anplane, but getting in contact with ATC is the easy part

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thepasttenseofdraw@reddit

Yeah, doubt they know the Guard frequency, or even that its called guard. Kinda hard to turn to 121.5 if you don't know it exists. Also, the ptt button isn't necessarily obvious to anyone with little to no aviation experience.

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105_irl@reddit

Committing 121.5 to memory now

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AJHenderson@reddit

If they can find the manual they would. The operating handbook has to be on the plane. Also if they are someone with any flight training at all, it's going to be trivial to get the radio working and likely possible to program the autopilot even if ATC is unavailable, so long as the autopilot is able to do landings.

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supersimon741@reddit

you could still call somebody using cellphone tho

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nn123654@reddit

Air Traffic Control is not something that's in a normal 911 call center transfer directory.

Calling 911 is about as effective at planes as calling 911 if you're stuck on the tracks is. Basically functionally useless and is going to take at least 10 minutes to figure out what to do and get to the right person.

Even though the FAA does have numbers to the tower, it's only off duty controllers which answer. If ATC gives you a number to copy that's generally a very bad day for you as a pilot.

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HOA-President@reddit

Actually I work in a 911 center and we have all of the tower numbers for all of our major airports. We’ve never had to use them, but in theory we could if someone manages to get the plane to an altitude where they have reception.

My experience calling the FAA for stuff ranges from extremely helpful to “the FAA doesn’t do anything with aircraft call the FBI”

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mazu74@reddit

Okay wait who do you call if you’re stuck on train tracks??

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Maverick-not-really@reddit

Obviously it will differ depending on where you are, but when i worked police dispatch in sweden we absolutely could contact ATC. Our FAA equivalent would have an emergency contact number that could direct you to the tower/center. I could talk to a controller within a minute or two.

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Autoslats@reddit

You must have better coverage than I do or you’re flying around at low altitude.

While not necessarily trained, they would have better insights than the average Joe as to where certain equipment is. They're in/around the cockpit enough to glean some basics like where the radio controls are and potentially how to operate it. FAs are in the cockpit during flight if a pilot has to leave so are around active operation of the aircraft.

AdAdministrative5330@reddit

Use your cell phone to contact EMS.

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Autoslats@reddit

How is EMS going to help you? How long do you think it would take EMS to finally connect you with someone who is knowledgeable about airliners?

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AdAdministrative5330@reddit

No idea, but I imagine they could google or quickly recruit people to help. It's just a silly thought experiment. I don't think there's ever been a time when both pilots have been incapacitated.

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flyinhighaskmeY@reddit

It's just a silly thought experiment.

Not really though. You're assuming major airliner, in which case you are correct. But there have been many instances where a non-pilot has had to land a passenger aircraft. I've seen several of them pop up on Reddit over the years. And on this sub.

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abek42@reddit

Assuming this is one of those aliens abduct pilot situations, don't touch any controls such that the Autopilot continues to programmed heading and doesn't disengage.
121.5 remember this frequency. Find the radio knobs on the middle panel, key the frequency in and transmit "Mayday" and the flight number.
Someone will eventually respond. They will get you the support needed to land the puppy.

If it's not one of those Final Destination type situations, a working airplane and a working radio and a monkey who can follow instructions will be able to get the aircraft on ground safely.

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raptor7912@reddit

If nobody on the whole plane can even figure out the radios, then yeah, that plane is doomed.

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Unkown_Pr0ph3t@reddit

Everyone who ever used a portable radio or Wally talky knows to look for a push to talk button right? I think most aircraft probably have it in easy reach on the primary controls. The airplane got up there somehow so I'm assuming both pilots are incapacitated recently and up till then everything went according to the book. The radio should therefore be set for a nearby ATC (I'm wildly guessing here).

I'm pretty confident I could get a message out if they above is true. With my amazing flight sim skills (Ahem) and one flying lesson years ago and enought help from ATC and better yet, the autopilot I'm pretty ok with my chances.

You're too high for land based cell coverage

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crshbndct@reddit

I’d just FaceTime someone using the onboard wifi and then tell them to tell ATC to contact me.

I also know enough to know that 121.5 is the frequency to use, but I would be FaceTiming/zooming someone to get that figured out first. Then I’d just ignore everything I know and follow instructions exactly, including leaving the FaceTime thing on so I can show them the buttons I’m about to press.

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duckonmuffin@reddit

I might be I might now. But if not there are satellite internet services.

I imagine the former, the latter was a 737 person. I think one of the Mentour channels had him taking a non-pilot into a simulator and talking him down, which IIRC was successful.

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doctor--whom@reddit

Flight attendants are given 0 instruction on how to operate anything forward of the cockpit door. Although if one asked me how the radio works then I think I'd happily explain.

I doubt many of them would know how to operate the radio in any aircraft if they had no outside flying experience. Not to mention most FAs fly on several different types of planes and they'd all have different ways to transmit. The most phone looking thing in the cockpit of the airplane I fly would just make a PA. If they were to touch the side stick; one button would talk on the radio and the other, more visible one, would disconnect the autopilot so 50-50 there. Heck if I were in a 737 (a plane I've never flown before) I'd have no idea how to transmit on the radio and would have to stare at everything to find it.

The galley phones only call other galley phones and make PAs. Airphones to call the ground used to exist but don't anymore.

This exact situation has happened before, where both pilots were incapacitated, and a flight attendant made it up front but ran out of fuel and crashed. Whether that merits spending the time to train a FA is I suppose up for debate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522

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dervari@reddit

They were already in a fuel emergency when the FA made it to the cockpit. The FA in question was a licensed commercial pilot. Had he made it up there earlier the flight may have had a chance.

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lazyspaceadventurer@reddit

Don't forget the plane was depressurized and the FA probably was at least somewhat hypoxic despite using an oxygen bottle.

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RiversideAviator@reddit

Yeah it stands to reason that there should be a framework in place to ensure communication still exists between the plane and ATC in these instances. The way pilots have the flight manual with checklists and troubleshoots perhaps a separate, simple one explaining the few steps to contact ATC during emergencies for FAs?

Now whether or not someone on board has even an hour of experience on a Cessna or has ever played MS Flight Simulator is an unknown variable but maintaining contact with ATC at least increases the chances of survival by any measure.

Given how safe flying is overall I guess the bean counters running the industry don't think the benefit of such a manual outweighs the cost smh

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chaoz2030@reddit

I would think it would be as easy as a big red phone that rings when no one answers the radio. Any person can pick up a phone then they can tell them how to operate the radio then how to land the plane

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RiversideAviator@reddit

I feel like all this is super logical and intuitive. It’s crassly that’s none of this is standard.

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Fight_those_bastards@reddit

Because it’s a statistics thing. How many times in the entire history of commercial flight have both pilots of an airliner become incapacitated and a rando from the cabin has had to fly and land the plane? Zero.

you would be correct, because that was the original question

How confident are you that you could safely land a passenger airplane in an emergency situation, relying only on the assistance of air traffic control?

god forbid a man have any self confidence, and it's even backed by mythbusters, people will distort the question to shit on dudes havin a good time.

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TheBookofBobaFett3@reddit

I feel like I remember Tom Scott trying this and totally biffed it 😂 but he’s easily rattled

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Downvotes0nly@reddit

Remember that guy that stole a plane and did a barrel roll ?

…. If he can do it.

Well, to be fair, even in a small single engine plane the actual flying part is pretty easy. Just make sure you're going relatively flat with a decent enough speed (I'm assuming you're competent enough to find the throttle levers and look outside the window).

Right, but in an emergency, if you manage to call out on the radio, ATC doesn't need to know how to operate the plane. They'll get the necessary personnel involved who could talk you down to the ground.

Source: over 1000 flight hours watching Mayday: Air Disaster episodes. Lol but for reals, they'll pull out all the stops and yoink a pilot or company rep who could assist. Or worst case a nearby pilot would step in.

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Toosder@reddit

I want you to go ahead and play this crew. The person figures out how to key the microphone. Which in and of itself isn't necessarily likely. Those buttons aren't obvious. They're hidden behind the yolk or they are down on the panel but they aren't labeled in a way that the average person would understand.

They reach out to ATC. They're on a frequency for say center control. ATC is like oh crap we need to get the 737 pilot. Do you think they just have one on call? No. They don't. It's going to take time to get somebody out there, into the tower, onto the Mic. Probably at least an hour.

They might be able to relay someone for a little bit but again those radios don't have unlimited range. So what happens as that aircraft goes from one facility to the next? Or gets out of range of that 737 pilot that was somewhere nearby. Are they going to reroute that 737 to fly in formation so they can walk him in? I mean maybe. It's a solution.

But everyone just seems to think that you can just grab someone throw them on a radio and it'll be hunky-dory. Maybe, maybe if that guy managed to get into the cockpit, figure out the radios, and they were only at 10,000 ft on approach and somehow aren't completely already dead, But thus they don't need to change any of the frequencies and can speak to the same facility all the way down, maybe.

Everyone seems to assume the scenario means all the sudden this person with zero aviation is somehow in the cockpit, somehow in the seat, somehow knows how to work the mics, somehow has the time to speak to someone and figure out what to do next. This is why it's egotistical to assume "oh I can land a plane even though I have zero experience"

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Nighthawk700@reddit

Dude you're way overthinking this. Obviously in an emergency situation nothing is guaranteed and having someone successfully key the radio doesn't mean out and out success. But emergency procedures supporting an untrained person at the yoke aren't conjecture, this has happened numerous times and is well documented. Planes don't just fall out of the sky and the assumption here is pilot incapacitation without a disabled plane. Obviously there are many scenarios but this is the basic assumption with the "can an untrained person land a plane" situation. So the plane will be left on whatever autopilot course the pilot last entered meaning there is time for decisions.

That said even without infinite time, there are numerous options and in an emergency situation, all resources are directed at the emergency. ATC supervisors will marshal their resources to set up ad hoc means of relaying information, whether that comes from the Airline by phone relayed through radio, an on-call consultant, or even someone at the airport they happen to know who could help who is brought to the tower. That may take time but even in the immediate time frame, other pilots have often redirected to fly near the Mayday plane to provide assistance. They would be able to instruct the pilot on how to set a stable course using the autopilot allowing the hour needed to get an expert into the tower.

Again, I'm not just making this up, this has happened numerous times and the possibilities for support are really only limited by ingenuity of those involved. There have been emergencies where several planes created a daisy chain to relay instructions from ATC to the remote location of a plane that was otherwise unable to radio long distances. It's pretty amazing what can be done in an emergency, and that's not to say everything can always be done but you're trying to come up with complications that go beyond the basic premise of this thought experiment. Again, the assumption is a disabled pilot and a fully functioning, modern airliner in a typical cruise configuration, on a typical flight path.

TL;DR assuming the person manages to key the radio, default settings will mean the plane is on a stable path via autopilot on a normal route which nearly always has someone else within range on that frequency. Given this, someone will answer and be able to get assistance on frequency. As has happened numerous times in aviation history.

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Toosder@reddit

Seriously, the ignorance is astounding. Which is exactly why these egotistical morons think that they could just fly a jet if you put them up in the seat. And the thing that bothers me the most is every time they do some kind of test of this they've got the person already set up, already lined up with the runway, everything's already in the boxes, and they just see if they can land it.

Even for someone with no training, if you can follow instructions, it wouldn't be too difficult.

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HowAmIHere2000@reddit

Can all the ATC people also fly planes? Are they pilots?

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Ok_Helicopter4383@reddit

No not at all lol. I mean some might go and get a PPL on their own, but otherwise we have no clue how to fly a plane. That said, we are still a resource and will try to get someone on frequency who does... Best case though is another pilot whose already on frequency helps you through it.

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Ok_Helicopter4383@reddit

then again with ATC talking them down

WoolshirtedWolf@reddit

I would pay fifty bucks and stand in line for two hours if that was a stand alone direct replica ride at a four tier amusement park.

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OnlyGayIfYouCum@reddit

ATC doesn't talk anyone down. ATC are not pilots. ATC telling you you're cleared RNAV Zulu approach won't mean much.

What they will do is patch you through to a qualified pilot to help if they can find one. There are some pilots that go ATC. Most pilot controllers are private pilots or have some regional airline experience. Don't know many that flew jets and none that have the ratings to talk someone down. It could also be a liability nightmare. Not even sure what the actual procedure is but maybe there's a tower or LL controller in here who does. I imagine it also changes based on jurisdiction.

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HottDoggers@reddit

Radiohead is ass

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DSMStudios@reddit

cool avatar

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Wulf2k@reddit

What's the expected survivability of these planes if you just decreased speed in a wide open field until you scraped ground and lithobraked that way?

Do you need somebody to do a "good" landing, or do you just need somebody to not slam into anything perpendicular?

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BosnianSerb31@reddit

A wide open field to you and me is completely different than a wide open field while going over 100 miles an hour in something that weighs hundreds of tons

Then comes the problem like others have said of the engines digging in and causing the plane to roll and flip over.

Then comes the problem of things like powerlines, ditches, mud, and one off trees separating fields that appear to be wide open from the air

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GitEmSteveDave@reddit

I think the issue is that things like the engines become "land anchors" and dig into the soil, so inevitably, the plane would suddenly yaw to one side.

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Wulf2k@reddit

Valid.

...so, that's why you slam down hard enough that all engines catch the ground simultaneously.

BosnianSerb31@reddit

There are multiple successful instances of ATC doing just that for private aircraft, calling in a pilot to go up to the tower as the inexperienced circles around somewhere waiting for their arrival. It's standard procedure for this kind of emergency, and it's fair to assume that this is what the question was referring to.

You can bet your ass that any airline would all of their pilots in the area to help get their plane on the ground and theirpassengers safe. With the way airlines are structured, any airport is going to have rated pilots at the airport with the tower handling the emergency.

And as the MythBusters showed, along with Tom Scott, having someone talk you in leads to very successful landings. The closest every day thing to compare it to is like having someone coach you on how to play a video game. If you have the muscle memory built up to control pixels on a screen with your body, you can follow the instructions of where someone is telling you to put those pixels

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rkba260@reddit

Well said. There are a number that may have their PPL or even CPL, but the chances of them having any experience or knowledge of my specific aircraft type is literally nil.

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Plane_Garbage@reddit

Do pilots usually engage autoland?

Respectfully, as an airline pilot, you couldn't be farther from correct. Controllers are not pilots nor do they know how to fly planes. They tell us where to to go and when, but they have no knowledge of how to actually fly the plane.

When a crisis does occur, they bring in people (pilots) who know how to fly a plane to talk to the person at the controls.

By your assertion, why do we even have pilots or pilot training if controllers can just tell random ass people how to fly a plane... ?

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SiBloGaming@reddit

> By your assertion, why do we even have pilots or pilot training if controllers can just tell random ass people how to fly a plane... ?

To be fair, they said that the goal is simply that nearly everyone is able to leave the aircraft alive, which is pretty far from what you would expect from a pilot...

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rkba260@reddit

This assumption that controllers know how to fly a plane or even give instruction for a complete lay person to successfully (not die) control a modern airliner is so fantastical that it's not even a remote possibility.

We have years of training to get to this point. You can't convey that knowledge on even a cursory level to a random passenger. Hell, even a person with a private pilot rating has a near zero chance of pulling off this feat. This notion shows just how little the general public knows about aviation.

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AV48@reddit

Exactly. These are sharp dudes who have spent the majority of their lives playing with high tech robotics for a living. They have the inherent motor skills to pull this off.

Well... two things.

Is ATC going to know how to instruct you on how to dump fuel? Because Airbus =/= Boeing... hell 757 =/= 777, dump systems and procedures are different from model to model, let alone manufacturers
You can't dump dry. There are standpipes in the tanks that prevent you from dumping ALL of your fuel, for good reason. You'll still have the better part of 2-3 hours (my aircraft) worth of fuel.

The more I consider this scenario of both pilots being incapacitated and a passenger landing the plane successfully, the more absurd it becomes.

We haven't even discussed the complexity of the MCP/FMS or LNAV/VNAV and the required knowledge just to get the plane to descend.

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nomnomnompizza@reddit

What if I've played 100 hours of MS Flight Sim 😆

In these scenarios I've assumed ATC would find an instructor to come assist.

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rkba260@reddit

Well, and in almost of these scenarios... the plane is on final and the weather is good (no clouds or wind).

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Pure-Introduction493@reddit

I have tried a few flight slightly realistic (or very simplified) simulators. Landing is definitely not something I ever managed without crashing, missing the runway or otherwise.

I also played a LOT of Kerbal space program and mostly to land a plane would either land on the empty ground near the runway or just toss a million parachutes on the thing so it floats to the ground without issue. And the physics engine is VERY generous.

I know enough to know without autopilot of some sort there is zero chance I am landing that plane on my own. Zero.

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Phanterfan@reddit

In all these scenarios you don't have access to the cockpit as it is locked from inside

I could fly planes before I could drive cars. Simulators have always been harder than the real thing. I'd think someone with good motor skills and decent intelligence could get talked down. I don't like the idea that no contact could be made.

As far as the radio goes. I learned in the post 9/11 ADIZ. I hate radios. Squawk 7700 and smash ident

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No-Salary-4786@reddit

Going by my experience playing NES Topgun, even a trained pilot couldn't land.

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9999AWC@reddit

You need to play the other Ace Combat games! You'll love em! And the original Japan release AC3 that actually has a story!

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Theron3206@reddit

Flaring an aircraft is, in fact, an art that we practice.

AFAIK the plane should survive a landing with no flare (will need the gear inspected and probably some bits replaced but AFAIK the gear is technically rated for it) at the standard descent rate, so you will almost certainly not hurt anyone too much if you just set up the glide slope in the autopilot and let it fly the plane into the runway.

The whole thing falls apart when you get some random to hand fly anything.

There have been several people try this in sims, with a pilot talking them through the autopilot it works most times, without, well if you're lucky the plane crashes right side up. If the pilot on the radio tries to teach them to hand fly, same thing, massive over corrections and it all goes horribly wrong (I assume there is far too much delay between input and reaction from the plane for people to handle without practice).

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ResortMain780@reddit

With radio comms, I think most people will be able to do a survivable landing on a large enough airfield in decent conditions. There are dozens instances of private airplanes where the pilot died or became incapacitated and the passenger needed to land, and I dont think ive seen one where they died. I remember one instance with a 80+ year old woman with zero experience having to land a dual engine plane. Even googled it for you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QifqB_vIMM

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yohomatey@reddit

I've done this as a civilian with maybe 50 hours of msfs played, in a commercial training Sim (full motion, commercial pilot running the sin, etc). My buddy took me along with I'm, he is obsessed with flight Sims. The trainer was convinced my friend was pulling his leg and was actually a pilot. He landed nearly everything he could throw at him. So if the pilot is incapacitated, I'd want my friend there.

It’s a dumb joke that plays on the old trope: voters are stupid durrrr. You get what you put in it man.

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BlueBird884@reddit

Adam and Jamie the average male... I think they're well above average when it comes to intelligence, reasoning, and the undefineable 'street smarts'.

I don't think I would use the word "street smart" to descvibe them.

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God_Damnit_Nappa@reddit

They're extremely intelligent but they had no flying skills.

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InvisibleUp@reddit

So did Tom Scott. He landed fine with autopilot and a trained instructor, but did rather poorly without autopilot.

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anormalgeek@reddit

but did rather poorly without autopilot.

to be fair, that was probably a survivable landing. The plane would be damaged and everyone would be shaken pretty thoroughly, but it didn't look THAT bad.

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Trnostep@reddit

Plus it happened at the airport which is probably the best place to crash land at survivability wise. You'd have specially trained firefighters and medical services for this specific situation

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BosnianSerb31@reddit

Depends on the emergency but for this scenario, yes

On the UPS flight where the entire cargo hold of a 747 burst into flames and the first officer suffocated when his oxygen tank melted, the copilot was left alone in the cockpit, trying to figure out how to land the plane with smoke so thick and acrid that he couldn't even open his eyes to read the gauges. Not that it would've mattered anyways, because the smoke settling on his eyeballs was completely obscuring his vision with tears.

And that scenario, even though he did manage to get lined up with the runway on several occasions, and on the right glide slope on another, he was never able to get the combination of the two right given that he was essentially doing an ILS approach without any instrument. Just ATC trying to advise him on his course as he had to go around over and over and over.

So for that, I would've much preferred going out over the nearby ocean where I have a 180° as a mess in which I can be sure that there is nothing I will hit. Then I would just make my glideslope as shallow as humanly possible and listen to the terrain callouts, hoping that I can belly it in.

CVSRF, a level D 747-400 sim at NASA/Ames. Terry Regar (RIP) was the pilot who talked them to a landing

I understand the point you're trying to make about the utility in being able to land anywhere. You're still out to lunch when it comes to the complexity and intuitiveness of rotary flight

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nalc@reddit

My point is that, especially in a big modern (ish) helicopter that has stability augmentation, an untrained pilot would probably have better odds in an emergency landing because they can focus on a single task - moving the collective to get close to the ground. There's one lever to pull and one radalt gauge to watch (or just look through the chin windows) and if, while focusing on that, they end up translating 100 ft to the side or yawing 180 degrees or whatever, it's not the end of the world. You can take it slow, you've likely got at least 10-30 minutes of screwing around in HIGE before you start hurting anything. The 'go around' is literally just yank a bit on the lever and try again.

Trying to land a fixed wing means trying to control multiple cross-coupled things like altitude, sink rate, heading, etc unless you're doing it on a salt flat. You can do a go-around but that requires at a minimum being able to pull off some turns. If you got lined up with the runway but too fast, dead. Right speed but too much sink rate, dead. Right speed and sink rate but 100 ft to the side of the runway, dead. Right speed and sink rate and lateral position but the wrong heading, maimed in a ditch. There's a whole lot more variables you need to get right.

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Swashplater@reddit

What the hell are you smoking

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QuixotesGhost96@reddit

Fumes from burning wreckage

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Crafty_Beginning9957@reddit

Good luck with that ground effect.

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cheeksmear@reddit

SH-60

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FLHCv2@reddit

I used to work at a flight simulator company (like one of the very real sims at NASA) as a mechanical engineer. From my experience, I'd land it maybe 2 out of 10 times without any flight instruction at all and that was after multiple tries and previous instruction. With a flight instructor telling me what to do, 9 out of 10. Much much easier with someone telling you what to do.

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flyinhighaskmeY@reddit

Much much easier with someone telling you what to do.

Right? Which I think kinda defeats the purpose of this question. If someone else talks you through pushing the buttons and then the aircraft puts itself down...did you really land it?

I've been a flight simmer for well over a decade. I also have about 25 hours real world, right seat, in several GA aircraft (182, Vans RV10, Socata something I can't remember). I've been obsessed with aviation for a long time, so I paid really close attention on each of those flights. I've taken off and landed (with a real pilot ready to grab the controls and handling the radios).

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starrpamph@reddit

So what I’m hearing is only fly is Jamie or Adam is onboard

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I managed it in a sim with strong crosswinds. Tore the fuck outta the landing gear and it took 4 passes but the plane came down in one piece. If you added the stress of doing it for real though? I'd Choke. And thats if I didn't have a heart attack first.

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AtmosphereMoist414@reddit

Your brain tells you where you are and if in a simulator your safe in a real aircraft and an a320 there are sounds you will hear the plane making that will creep up your ass and up your spine. The two tv show cowboys never got close to the real thing except being passengers. The have bragging rites for landing a simulator, why not the real thing?

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PlaneWolf2893@reddit

That was a great episode

I did get to practice touch n go's in our flight simulator during engine run training (and have played sim games before) and well I made it on the ground, but touched down so far down the runway that we would have slid off. That was unassisted, probably could do it if I had an experienced person saying increase throttle, pitch up/down etc.

UnnecessaryPeriod@reddit

I did it too after this episode at Jet Blue training facility in Orlando FL. Good friend is a captian there and let me do it. One of the best experiences in my life. So fucking cool

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icanfly_impilot@reddit

Yeah… it’s not actually that easy though. They were set up for success. First of all, the comm with the Atc was already established. Most people would have trouble figuring out how to talk to ATC in the first place. Then, you also need fairly ideal conditions and to work your way from cruise.

Is it possible? Yeah, but not a slam dunk.

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TheVoicesOfBrian@reddit

You can watch the whole thing here (legal, too): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBwdiXz0eEs

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SOLUNAR@reddit

I would say that both Jamie and Adam have above average intellect or at least a strong ability to follow instructions.

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ProudlyWearingThe8@reddit

Two German entertainers tried this as a challenge in their show (the reward for winning the show is 15 minutes on air where they can do whatever they want, but there's also a punishment for losing). It didn't go too well.

It keeps safety at the forefront of my mind all day every day, which is why even though a system for immediately turning a plane to the nearest appropriate runway and getting it down without any aircrew intervention is possibly incredible dangerous it is also a bit of a curiosity to me.

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Uncle_Sams_Uncle_Sam@reddit

I agree completely. Aviation is not my industry, but I did organizational risk management in government for a number of years. It tends to make one very paranoid about any system that depends on people behaving well, following protocol, or which has either increased cost or effort. You can pretty much count on people messing up anything that requires extra effort or common sense.

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ElminstersBedpan@reddit

You can pretty much count on people messing up anything that requires extra effort or common sense.

I need this done up as a demotivational poster for my office.

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Seth_Baker@reddit

I'm 100% certain that I could land it. I'm 5% sure that someone would survive. I'm 0.01% sure that no one would die. I'm 0.0001% sure that they'd be able to reuse the plane. I played the entire X-wing series with a Microsoft Sidewinder in the 1990s. These odds are assuming the aircraft is fully functional.

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Senior-Evidence8691@reddit

Don’t tell me the odds

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saggywitchtits@reddit

Point toward ground
Pray

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Seth_Baker@reddit

I mean, the goal is to aim at the ground and just barely miss, then slow down, it's not that hard, right?

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JanitorMaster@reddit

I'm 100% certain that I could land it.

Anyone can land a plane….

…It may just take millennia until your strapped in corpse whacks an errant asteroid!

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bonfuto@reddit

As an aerospace engineer, I am proud to say we have never left one up there. Astros, maybe not so much.

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ChiefFox24@reddit

Yeah. Why land when you can put it into orbit

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Top-Matter7152@reddit

What goes up, must come down…

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Dank009@reddit

I'm not sure of much but I am sure you aren't accidentally getting into orbit with a passenger jet.

Was that something that could happen in the game he mentioned?

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CodingInTheClouds@reddit

Lol that's what I meant by landing. I'm giving it 5% chaonce of death. Seems reasonable for a plane I've never flown

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Level_Up_IT@reddit

Im 100% certain that i could land it. I'm 95% sure no one would die. I'm 90% sure they'll be able to reuse the plane. I also have a pilots license. These odds are assuming the aircraft is fully functional.

If you have a license, why so little confidence? Note: don't confuse confidence with a lack of dread, it should be terrifying to think of the responsibility, but if you're the best option in that moment, you're the best option.

You understand ATC comms.

You understand the basic physics of flight - you need to add power to climb, you'll burn more fuel in the process, etc.

You know how to flare. You know how to use indicators like VASI.

Aviation enthusiasts here. I know most general things about flying. But have never flown a plane myself.

If you didn’t know the plane itself. Meaning the approach speed, flaps required at x speed, and even the airport specific requirement, do you feel as confident?

What if you were behind the wheel mid summer in Denver? Long ass runway, but you’re at altitude.

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CodingInTheClouds@reddit

It'd be easier if you knew those things, but atc would be able to relay that information. Aside from that there are resources in the flight deck for it. Flight computer, POH, markings on airspeed indicator, etc. Then id have to rely on autopilot to maintain it because there's no way I could handle fly it. At least not well.

TSA-Eliot@reddit

Im 100% certain that i could land it.

I'm 100% certain that every airliner should be required to be able to land itself if need be. Autoland:

In aviation, autoland describes a system that fully automates the landing procedure of an aircraft's flight, with the flight crew supervising the process. Such systems enable airliners to land in weather conditions that would otherwise be dangerous or impossible to operate in.

A few general aviation aircraft have begun to be fitted with "emergency autoland" systems that can be activated by passengers, or by automated crew monitoring systems. The emergency autoland systems are designed to complete an emergency landing at the nearest suitable airport, without any further human intervention, in the event that the flight crew is incapacitated.

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series_hybrid@reddit

This is the answer. The question "as written" is from the point of view of the corporation that owns the plane, and does not care about the passengers.

Is it possible for someone to "soft crash" a plane so that all the passengers survive?

If my kids are on a plane, and the pilot and co-pilot both die of heart attacks, and a plumber soft crashes the plane by taking instructions from the tower...everyone survives...I call that a great success.

You're a better man than me.

Enough-Tension576@reddit

All scenario we see on YouTube are in perfect weather conditions with barely any winds. Looking forward for the day we’ll see someone who doesn’t know anything about aviation try to land in IMC condition at an airport not equipped with cat III minima. No only that but all scenarios are made with an airliner fully equipped with automation systems, what if they were to fly a DHC-8-300 with no auto throttle, or a DHC-6-300 with no automation at all?

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JT-Av8or@reddit

I’ve done this and the answer is ZERO. NO CHANCE. NONE. Simple reason, every time someone does it in a sim (like myth busters) they always have communications and the sim instructor is watching them and telling them what to do. Real life? Where’s the radio? How does it work? What frequency do you use? Where are you? Why are there fighters off your wings? 🤣 I’ve done the sim thing like this. “Okay, jump in, I’ll be on headset in the other room. Go.” Nothing. Nobody can ever even find the radio nor figure out how to call.

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Square_Answer_5839@reddit

Cant u jjst like

Aim down slowly and as u hit the runway break?

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_BaldChewbacca_@reddit

I'm 100% sure that I could... But it's kinda my job lol

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Sspmd11@reddit

Funny

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Hms34@reddit

Famous line from the movie Airplane.

I mean why would there be no pilot? How did the plane get up there?

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crshbndct@reddit

Well the specific scenario is that the pilot is incapable of flying the plane.

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Dodopilot_17@reddit

To successfully perform an autoland, there are a set of systems the plane must be equipped with, infrastructure required on the airport (presence and activation) and the plane still need to be configured for an AUTOLAND (FMS, etc.).

If a passenger is required to land a plane, who knows what happened to the pilots and what sorts of damages it had suffered.

Autoland are certified (at least on the A320) for lower limitations than regular manual landings (winds, etc.) and some failures can prevent the systems to have enough redundancies to allow for the AUTOLAND to happen.

And assistance would be provided by ATC but somebody must have tuned the right frequency, activated the right button, know how to operate it… Not that it is very hard to do so, but prior knowledge is required.

Why would there be no AP, Autoland, or any other help?

If Rando Calrissian is trying to land the plane, something has gone terribly wrong.

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Fun-Director-4092@reddit

I'm picturing Flint Lockwood asking his dad to do something on the computer here...

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climb-via-is-stupid@reddit

I got 20yrs ATC experience. Zero clue on how planes work. It’s. It requirement for us.

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I guess it depends on the airport.

Big airport have dozens of pilots on the premise at the same time...

Also commercial planes are supposed to have some additional fuel and be able to stay at least 30 min in the holding pattern (plus some diversion fuel, contingency, safety margin for the trip, etc...) So you have some time.

Also the pilot doesn't have to be in the tower with you from the get go. Put the phone on speaker, repeat what the passenger says (I doubt maxing the volume and taking the headset off would be enough for a direct two way communication).

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climb-via-is-stupid@reddit

Im at decently sized air carrier airport…

We don’t even have the number to the airlines here in the tower lol.

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buttercup612@reddit

Who do you call if, I dunno a pilot tells you that a hijacker’s claiming to have bombs in the luggage carousel?

At a hospital, we always have one person in charge. Everyone knows how to reach that person …. and knows they should only do so in a true emergency.

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climb-via-is-stupid@reddit

we use the very specific checklist for hijacking or bomb threats that we have that leads to some office in DC and they tell us what to do.

Many aircraft accidents were actually caused by new pilots/co-pilots not having flown a certain type for enough hours and misusing the plane thinking it would react the same as the one they have more experience with.

The famous clip where a plane crashes into a highway and then a riverbed just 5 minutes after take off is an example of those instances.

I watched a lot of these accident documentaries and it's surprisingly often the case, also pilots leaving their co-pilots take the "wheel" even tho they don't have enough experience.

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buttercup612@reddit

Do you remember which flight number or airline that was?

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No-Satisfaction6065@reddit

Yes

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ndem763@reddit

My sim partner and I crashed into the east river in training for our new type after we lost our airspeed indicator. Embarrassing considering we were both already airline pilots.

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mektor@reddit

I'd trust me doing it over the mythbusters...

Flown various choppers, commercial and military aircraft, spacecraft (real and fictional), etc. in sims, and FPV racing drones in acro mode (flight assists disabled) IRL, + apollo lander sim at flight museum (nailed the landing first try thanks to the ridiculous amount of landings from space sims though it didn't like my first landing cause I didn't want to land where it wanted me to and said I landed out of bounds. pfff. My spot was better. 2nd attempt it said I had best landing of the day. Meh, I just let it drop with a couple minor course corrections, burned once or twice to get a feel for gravity vs thrust, and sent it. Hard burn right before landing roll off the throttle and smooth as butter touchdown.) MSFS, DCS, SC, AH64D-Longbow sim, etc.

I feel like the pilots in this thread are having a slightly different conversation.

Consistently making commercial appropriate stress free landings with your job on the line if you bounce the plane a bit or burn the brakes is incredibly difficult.

People answering this question are likely talking about putting it on the ground and stopping the plane with most people not seriously injured, no matter the amount of damage to the plane. They are likely also assuming unlimited time and someone talking them through it.

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Dodopilot_17@reddit

Every pilot remembers their first landings on small planes and/or sims for jets and although you’ve been briefed, trained and an instructor is nearby, you almost always overpitch, over-roll, etc.

A small plane is slower, smaller, requires shorter distances and can land laterally not on the centerline without issues. Bigger jets is a different story.

I fly the A320 and I can safely say that no one can safely land that plane without arriving too fast, too slow, too high, too low, land on the 450m mark while on the centerline without issues wind that often isn’t coming from straight ahead and stable.

A landing is done at around 125kts and the flare last 3-6s with fly-by-wire controls that don’t give feedbacks like conventional controls.

If you’re not properly trained there is absolutely no way you can safely land a jet manually.

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Successful_Ebb_7402@reddit

I think there's also certain different expectations. You are talking about "safely" landing a plane. As a civvy with no flight experience, I'd be looking at "survivably" landing the plane. I mean, I admit it. If someone is walking me through it remotely, I figure there's about a 75% chance I could put the plane on the ground intact enough people could walk away from it.

That's NOT the same thing as safely. That's just slow enough and just low enough that when the autopilot kicks out and we steer into the grass and the landing gear gets left behind , then the folks driving the shiny red emergency vehicles with all the flashing lights show up to find they're dealing with walking wounded rather than body bags. But if things are bad enough I'm landing the plane to begin with then "everyone had to go the hospital" is a much better ending then "we had to start identifying the remains from dental records and dna".

Could I do it? Probably Do you WANT me to do it? Not if there's any better options available!

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Dodopilot_17@reddit

Like I said in another comment, there is no way you can manually land a airliner jet without proper training, regardless of how many Flight Simulator hours you have.

How do I know this? More than 2,000h of flight sim before I became an airline pilot on the A320.

Even on actual full motion sims (which are pretty realistic) you will find they behave differently than the real plane in real conditions.

If you haven’t trained to fly a jet with the correct flows, sequences of actions, procedures to apply at a given moment, engaging the right mode at the same time, talking to ATC and manually flying the plane all at the same time while you fly an “emergency situation” where the other FO/CPT is inop I guarantee you beyond setting the airplane for an autoland you won’t land it safely enough not to kill anyone. Add the startle effect (we’re trained to manage it), potential weather (we’re trained for that), crew panic (we’re CRM trained), fuel management in a no-time context, etc.

And the “yeah ok but what about if I could just focus on the flying”. You won’t be landing it “safely enough”, you will crash that plane. At 130kts approach speed, it’s not your GA airplane. It is very different than on Flight Simulator.

You may be very knowledgeable in the systems/on Flight Simulator/etc. and that’s great. But you’re not qualified to land a real jet and you won’t succeed in doing so without crashing.

All actual pilots would say the same thing but for some reasons people with 0 hour behind a stick would keep thinking they “may be able to”. No you wouldn’t. It’s called the Dunkin Kruger effect.

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Livid_Size_720@reddit

If you can't press this button or that button if someone tells you so then you have no place in cockpit of anything.

You simply assume some kind of crazy emergency with limited time, broken airplane, apocalyptic weather and the person locked out of cockpit. The others here talk about setting an autoland in optimal conditions.

And any reasonable person can set up an autoland with help and enough time. Not everyone, but many could.

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Dodopilot_17@reddit

Yes. Autoland yes. Many can set it up, I agree, see my previous comment. But doing it on time, while not infringing airspace, etc., not as easy as you would thing but yes feasible.

Manually landing no. No way you do it safely. Anybody who says otherwise is kidding themselves.

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MostNinja2951@reddit

Manually landing no. No way you do it safely. Anybody who says otherwise is kidding themselves.

Except we've done experiments where we put non-pilots or GA pilots in the highest level of sim and with ATC talking them through it survivable landings are common. Is a runway excursion good? Of course not. But skidding off the runway and trashing the plane is better than a smoking crater and a lot of passengers are going to walk away from that.

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Dodopilot_17@reddit

I would love to see that source if you have it. Because it certainly goes against the general consensus and other pilots’ and experts opinions.

I only said I agree with the facts presented the article the post is from.

“Both takeoff and landing are far too quick, technical and concentration-intensive for an untrained person to pull off. They also require a range of skills that are only gained through extensive training, such as understanding the information presented on different gauges, and being able to coordinate one’s hands and feet in a certain way. […]

So, if you’ve never even learned the basics of flying, your chances of successfully landing a passenger aircraft with air traffic control’s help are close to zero. […]

Flight simulators provide an immersive environment in which professional pilots, students and aviation enthusiasts can develop their skills. So if you really think you could match-up against a professional, consider trying your hand at one. You almost certainly won’t be able to land an actual passenger plane by the end of it – but at least you’ll gain an appreciation for the immense skill pilots possess.“

A lot of not pilots here seem to disagree with that consensus, think that they could actually pull it off despite all pilots and aviation experts telling you it is not possible. May I ask what other things you could possibly know that we don’t that would make us wrong in our field of expertise?

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MostNinja2951@reddit

Mythbusters episode 94. Both of them crash when trying to land without any help, both of them successfully land (hand flying, no auto-land) with guidance over the radio. Your "professional expertise" doesn't outweigh demonstrated facts.

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Dodopilot_17@reddit

Except we’ve done experiments where we put non-pilots or GA pilots in the highest level of sim and with ATC talking them through it survivable landings are common.

That’s your source for it? You call that a fact?

God how far people would go to never admit they’re wrong is staggering

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MostNinja2951@reddit

It is demonstrated fact that they put untrained people in the closest approximation to the scenario that can be done safely and they succeeded. Sorry if you don't like it but facts don't care about your feelings.

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Dodopilot_17@reddit

Sure bud

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Dodopilot_17@reddit

Except we’ve done experiments where we put non-pilots or GA pilots in the highest level of sim and with ATC talking them through it survivable landings are common.

That’s your source for it? You call that a fact? That’s anecdotical at best lol

God how far people would go to never admit they’re smartass is staggering

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ce402@reddit

I love the number of confidently incorrect people here that grossly simplify our jobs.

No, you won’t.

There is a very fine line between “safely” “survivably” and “smoking hole”

Rex Kramer put it best in “Airplane!” when he said they should just send the plane out to crash in Lake Michigan, at least it would avoid killing people on the ground.

Your only hope is if you’re in a plane that can autoland, within range of an airport with the required equipment, with wind within limits, AND there is someone with enough skill and experience to talk you through programming the auto flight system to perform it.

All before you fly out of radio range and run out of fuel. Hell, by the time you figure out there’s a problem and gain access to the cockpit, and figure out how the radio and audio panels work, you’ll likely be out of radio range and in the dark, anyway.

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julian88888888@reddit

okay I hear you. but what if I crash it going 50 knots somewhat level with the ocean. that should prevent the smoking hole

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I’m a controller, and there’s no chance I could land an airliner, let alone talk a passenger through it. Everyone assumes ATC has magical access to trained pilots, while the nearest airport flying “regular” jets is over 2 hours drive, and we know nothing about the systems on the plane.

arcadiaware@reddit

Sorry about that, I was talking about commercial flights, but that is true! The dream of landing a plane is doable, as long as it's a not a super large aircraft, but that's entirely fair.

I'm still only gonna ever do it in my dreams though.

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buttercup612@reddit

This is going to be the world’s dumbest question, but what makes a large plane harder to land than a small one? I get that it would be harder, I guess I’m wondering specifics

Is it:

More systems to run and switches to flip?
Physically harder like moving the controls?
Harder to finesse it down to the runway when the wheels are 100’ apart?
Other things?

The old “people are so dumb lol” thing. If you remove ATC, remove anyone with any aviation experience from all airports within radio range, remove autopilot, autoland and autothrottle from the plane, and also remove any logic or sense from the person trying to land the plane, it’ll most likely crash. Might as well throw a hurricane and structural failure in there too. Throw in a couple of engine failures.

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spacehog1985@reddit

As long as the plane is in one piece, I could still do it.

ok let's try. Assumption: airplane is in a mostly safe state (no immediate need to "aviate" or "navigate" right now). If something does not work, I try to restore the previous state so I don't mess up too much.

First I would listen in if there is active comms going on. Keep the frequency and try to communicate.

Let's see that either VHF1/2 is selected and not PA/Cabin etc. I remember seeing this.

On the sidestick, I would look for the PTT button. I don't think its the red one (AP disconnect?), the other one might be the trim lever. So PTT might be on its other side?
In case that I accidentially disconnect the AP: I would try pressing the ATHR and AP1/AP2 buttons somewhere around the center, just below the windshield to turn it on again. If I really mess up, I would ask another person to control speed/thrust and pitch/roll/... manually.

In case I don't find the PTT, I would try the VOICE button on the radio, maybe this works?

Nothing yet?

The second radio has the 121.5MHz on standby, that should be the emergency freq (looks familiar). I would first try pressing the <-> button on the radio to make this my active frequency and use the headset on the right side. In case it does not work, let's try VHF1/2 buttons (would try to have VHF2 selected on both the upper part of the radio panel and the lower part). If all that fails, let's revert the change and turn the big knob and set the active frequency manually to 121.5MHz. Not sure if it needs a final push/pull to accept the input. (A bit confused because there is also VHF3, maybe there is a third radio?)

Let's say I don't hear back. I would bring the rotary knobs below the radio panel into a center position assuming this is volume per channel? (It looks like VHF1 is fully turned down? Maybe I also need to pull or push them first).

Still nothing?
I would give the emergency checklists a shot. Maybe look up radio failure and see if there is any usable step-by-step instruction to follow.

The squawk thing is difficult, only seen the rotary knob version. But since we need 4 digits, it might be on the lower right side of the center panel. Hard to tell what the text says. Type in some other number with 7X00 while I am not sure what X would be, just trying something. There might be some knobs to turn on/off so ensure it is set to on. Might get the fighter jets started, so let's keep an eye out. Lights on, blinds up. And hope that they don't shoot us down. (I would hope for someone sending a message via some RF transmitter, I think they can do that? There should pop something up on a flight display but not sure how to access it)

Would I really do that in practice? Likely not. Way too much stress that might block me and potential panic.

I hope I did not crash that plane yet, but that's what I would think about doing.

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doctor--whom@reddit

Well just to start there are some good things you intuited and some things that would not have been good. Certainly the general concept that there isn’t any immediate aviating or navigating to be done is an excellent one.

Your general sense of operating the radio by selecting the relevant frequency and pushing the knobs and switches to be able to listen and transmit is correct. The voice button is not what you would need to push to transmit though. I suppose it would be interesting to see what you would have done in the scenario where you think you’ve set up the radio correctly, but press the wrong button to transmit and hear nothing in return. Would you assume that you’re out of range? That you had set up the radio incorrectly? That you were pressing the wrong button to transmit? The PTT switch is indeed not the red button on the side stick but the lever in front which you thought was a trim switch. Would you have been willing to give it a go anyway? Or would you have tried to find another switch to activate the radio?

Had you accidentally pressed the autopilot disconnect or otherwise disconnected the autopilot, and pressed the buttons you described you would have caused the autopilot to maintain its last trajectory when you turned it on, that is, the last heading and vertical speed it was doing whether that was a climb or a descent; it would not necessarily return to the originally programmed flight plan without additional intervention. If you had turned off course and entered a slow descent it would maintain wherever you had turned to and continued that rate of descent whatever it was. You would have also turned OFF the autothrust and the engines would increase to maximum power. Maybe this would be recoverable by manually moving the thrust levers but now the airplane would be in a state where the airspeed could be rapidly increasing or decreasing and you might either approach a stall or over speed in a matter of seconds (and those two things would turn off the autopilot). And particularly if you’re at high altitude, if someone who has never flown a plane before were to try to manually recover from one of these states, they might just worsen the problem by making incorrect control inputs especially in a cockpit that would be blaring with alarms and warnings at this point.

Your transponder attempts are almost there, you would have had to push the clear button first before typing in a new code. Not that the transponder will particularly help you, ATC would already be concerned about a plane that stopped talking and even if you were intercepted there would be no means of directly communicating from aircraft to aircraft unless you had successfully figured out the radios.

The saving grace would be a technology called CPDLC which on an Airbus is a text messaging system between ATC and aircraft that displays on a small screen just above the FMS display. If you had the good fortune of being in a CPDLC equipped aircraft and the CPDLC was set up and connected correctly then ATC could send you text messages telling you how to use the radios. An airline’s dispatcher, had they somehow figured out that instead of a pilot in the cockpit they had a passenger trying to save the day could also send you messages that would automatically print out of the airplane’s printer (if equipped) and perhaps communicate with you that way but this is a long shot and relies on you staying airborne long enough to give them time to figure this all out before you inadvertently disconnected the autopilot in some unrecoverable way.

I like your manual idea but the problem is it is written for an audience that is familiar with airplane jargon. For example if I said to turn off and on RMP 1 and 2 would that mean anything to an average person? And there certainly are not instructions on how to operate a radio in the emergency checklists, only how to recover a malfunctioning one.

That all goes to say, if there was ever a scenario where a true layperson had to save the day they’d have to have a lot of luck to make the exact set of right decisions to get themselves just in the position to be able to communicate, let alone eventually fly the plane.

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throwaway195472974@reddit

Thanks for your response.
I also read into it. That thing on the front what I thought was the "trim lever" is actually only a thumbrest(?), so no button. I confused this one with some Boeing trim lever which is indeed on its yoke.
So my theory on the PTT being on "its other side" of the sidestick (that I cannot see) was correct. Since that's the only other option than the red button and I know that there should be PTT on that sidestick, I would try it. It might have worked.

Thanks for the warning on the AP, did not know that part. In case I realize that something is going on: If I look at the leftmost display, then I see my altitude and speed and if the plane is level. So I would know how to get that info, but don't claim to be able to keep it under control.

Looking at the AP panel again (from my comfy chair without any stress), there is no ALT mode on A320 it seems but a button with "push to level off" which I would give a try. Trying to (then?) set speed via SPD might also be an option. I would pick a value outside the red area of the speed-indicator (so no overspeed and no stall).

Transponder: If it does not accept new input, I just might try pressing CLR in an attempt to get it working. I wouldn't expect that I can break much there.

On the checklists: Yes, RMP would not have said anything to me.

I follow your reasoning. This is just a small part and all would require a lot of luck to not mess up. While I might have figured out some parts around the radio or maybe the transponder, that's only a small part of the problem and landing does not allow any retries. I also likely underestimate the stress of being in that (very hypothetical) situation in an emergency with people panicking, alerts blaring, etc. I am aware that pilots undergo very intensive training that cannot be replaced by reading into stuff or watching videos. I don't think I will ever be in such a situation (and really hope so). I would however not say "no" to just try that out on a sim with nothing at stake some day - just for fun and to see how far I would come.

Thanks again for your very informative response, have a nice day!

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HeedJSU@reddit

Not an a320 pilot, nor am I a pilot at all, nor am I the person you’re referring to, but from the lower pedestal picture, the plane appears to be at an airspeed of zero with the landing gear down, soooo…..

Good job me?

Seriously though, I can see the radio frequencies displayed, so I’m gonna guess one of the switches there that i can’t read is a vox switch which gets me on air and cooking, even if I can’t find a mic switch.

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doctor--whom@reddit

Which switch? Like genuinely I'd like to know if you can figure it out. https://images.app.goo.gl/4REhg7iUMzf2QUbJA

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HeedJSU@reddit

So the top panel shows the two vfo frequencies. Vfo1 is active on 121.825mhz

According to other posts I’ve seen here I need to be on 121.5 if I’m gonna be calling pan pan pan so I’m gonna try to spin the knob on the right of the top panel to get it to 121.5.

Assuming there’s no switch on the yoke for PTT I’m gonna try the button on the second panel marked voice to try to activate vox.

Bottom panel appears to show squawk 7776, so I’m gonna punch the buttons to try to change that to 7700

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doctor--whom@reddit

Okay you twist the knob and you will see the numbers in the right window change. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you figure out that there are actually two concentric knobs on the panel and you figure out what their separate function is.

You now call out into the void (or at least you think you did) and you hear nothing. What next? Do you keep trying? Do you do something else on the panel? The reason I say this is that if you do precisely what you said in your comment you would have selected 121.5 in the standby frequency window but you would not have actually made it the active frequency; but I'm not sure whether you would have figured this out or you would have just assumed you had done the right thing but no one could hear you.

Also, pushing the voice button would not transmit by the way, although again would you be able to distinguish whether the button was working, or whether no one could hear you, or whether your headset was working, or whether the radio was tuned correctly? If you did precisely as stated, you would not have achieved your goal of speaking on 121.5 but maybe you would think that you had, and I'm curious how you would react to hearing nothing in return.

There is a switch on the sidestick for PTT, but which would you press? https://symulatory.com/!data/shop/b_shop2_219.jpg

You're correct in operating the transponder though, its exactly correct that you should hit clear then punch in the numbers.

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HeedJSU@reddit

I’m an amateur radio operator so I probably have a better chance than most in figuring out the radios. I’m gonna spin the knob and I’m guessing from your comment see the standby frequency change and then probably figure out one of the vhf numbered buttons or (more likely) the sel button changes my active vfo. Is the illuminated two way arrow light between the vfo windows a push button as well? That’s an option too.

As far as the ptt on the side stick, logic tells me that they’re gonna put the ptt button where a pilot is never gonna have to search for it, so while the red button begs for me to pick it, I’m gonna guess that the trigger in the front is the ptt switch. I’m assuming that pull is transmit and off is closed.

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doctor--whom@reddit

Yeah the double-sided arrow would be the button you would have to press in order to switch the frequency from standby to active. You would also have to make sure to press the unlabelled black button above the illuminated dial (which is a volume dial which would have to be popped out) in order to both receive and transmit.

Which perhaps would be the way you would find the panel if entering the cockpit, but this would be another plausible way to find the radio, which would require several button presses (5 by my count) to configure it to what you would need. https://i.ytimg.com/vi/AyvfiLGtxfs/sddefault.jpg

And you're correct in saying that it's the trigger that is the PTT, not the red button; the red button disconnects the autopilot which would probably be the death of you if you couldn't figure out how to re-engage it.

My point here overall is to say: you're clearly not a literal amateur (pun intended) who has never used radios for voice communication and you also have good problem solving skills, and still there were a lot of 50/50 decisions you would have had to make with no guidance just to arrive at the correct sequence of buttons to press in order to begin to communicate. And whether or not you would have been able to recognise had you made a mistake along the way, versus concluding that no one could hear you remains an open question.

Then let alone had you successfully guessed & checked your way into working the radios then be told how to program the autopilot to do an auto land (if you have the good luck to be in an airplane that can automatically land, because not all can).

But at the end of the day I think in this fanciful scenario an airplane full of pilot-less passengers would be lucky to have you on board, as you seem probably the most likely of a selection of non-pilots or aviation engineers/technicians to be able to start with figuring out the radio. But a layperson? Not a chance.

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alzee76@reddit

If you're a simmer, I agree. If you're not, and not a pilot, figuring out how to tune the transponder is probably going to be even more difficult than figuring out the radio. That said a randomly changing ident is bound to get you some attention as well if you're in range of anyone watching.

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Mimshot@reddit

Best case the pilots were recently in contact with ATC and you just need to find the PTT. Maybe you can find it in the A320 cockpit.

More likely it was a long time before anyone realized there was a problem and then another half hour or so to get through the cockpit door. Now you also need to tune the radio and figure out what frequency to set.

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alzee76@reddit

Best case the pilots were recently in contact with ATC

Doesn't matter who they were talking to, they were talking to someone, and if the aircraft suddenly stopped making contact with the world, it would be logical to try it on whatever the last frequency it made contact was on. Even in a worst case scenario where it's taking a trans-oceanic flight and is already in autopilot over the ocean when the emergency happens, it's eventually going to appear on someone's scope (unless the panicking passenger does something insane like disengage and start trying to randomly fly the plane for no reason rather than call for help) somewhere, squawking and drawing attention.

If they do find the PTT and start calling mayday, someone's going to eventually hear them, whether it be because they're actively hunting for frequencies the flight may be on, or because some random hobbyist with a scanner picks up their transmission. The range they can be heard at is a lot longer than most people seem think.

and you just need to find the PTT. Maybe you can find it in the A320 cockpit.

Sure. There are generally only three places you have to look to find it; Somewhere on the wire coming from the headset, as a trigger control on the yoke, or as a trigger control on the control stick of an airbus. That'll cover the vast majority, though of course, they can be scattered around anywhere. Still, if you know what you're looking for, and don't push anything that is labeled that doesn't say PTT, your chances of finding the right thing improve.

More likely it was a long time before anyone realized there was a problem and then another half hour or so to get through the cockpit door. Now you also need to tune the radio and figure out what frequency to set.

You actually do not need to do that and unless you already know how and what frequency to go to, you should not even try. The people searching for you will be calling for you and listening for you on frequencies they know you have already used.

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doctor--whom@reddit

Lets assume that the #1 radio stays tuned to the last assigned frequency: if the airplane has flown out of range of that ATC's transmitter/receiver then unless there are aircraft in range that are still on that frequency then any successful transmissions would just be in the void. And different ATC sectors don't have the ability to select frequencies to transmit or receive on so even if they were to figure out what the last assigned frequency for the passenger flown airplane was, they would have to relay instructions via another airplane (or someone with a tunable radio) and only while they both remain in mutual range of each other. This would take a fantastic stroke of luck and creative thinking to coordinate.

What's more likely to happen is that the ATC will try to contact this aircraft on guard, 121.5 which is often tuned on radio #2. Our hypothetical hero might even hear the transmissions on guard. But the tricky part is whether they could figure out how to talk on guard with radio #2 instead of radio #1. Or if in the attempt to operate the RMP they accidentally tune a random frequency and can't figure out how to tune it back or broadcast at all. Now granted comparing a 737 radio stack and an A320 radio stack, it seems like things are labeled much more clearly in plain English on the 737 and I do think someone could probably figure it out. But the Airbus radio panel might be a little too obscure, especially if it were tuned in a weird way like to HF in oceanic airspace, or to nothing at all.

I've never flown a 737 but the PTT switch is not labeled PTT on an Airbus (and I've never seen an inline PTT on a headset), and the RMP for controlling the radio isn't intuitive. While I am rated on the A320, I have no 737 experience and I looked at a cockpit and yoke picture and didn't find anything labeled PTT. Now I looked it up and saw that it is indeed a trigger on the yoke, which experienced pilots on other types would probably figure out eventually but a layperson? Or even a simmer? Honestly I would love to sit someone down in a real Airbus and ask them to tune 121.5 and talk on it I think it would be fascinating.

Ultimately I think its most likely that in this hypothetical situation that the hero of the day would likely inadvertently disconnect the autopilot or do something undesirable (like applying too much force on the yoke or sidestick and disconnecting the autopilot that way) before successfully finding the PTT switch.

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alzee76@reddit

then any successful transmissions would just be in the void.

I'm kinda getting tired of repeating the fact that the world is absolutely filled with radio enthusaists/hobbyists who are constantly scanning all manner of frequencies, and frequencies involved in commercial aviation (the so called "air band") get special attention. You are not just SoL if no other aircraft are within range and listening on your frequency. Far from it.

This would take a fantastic stroke of luck and creative thinking to coordinate.

It would take a mediocre stroke of luck and virtually no creative thinking. Any trained communications person would immediately understand what needs to be done, and who to contact to start making it happen.

But the tricky part is whether they could figure out how to talk on guard with radio #2 instead of radio #1.

There'd be nothing "tricky" here. The person calling them would, given enough (but not a long) time, would begin to suspect that something like this had happened and issue instructions on how to tune the radio or switch to the other radio in the stack.

It would be not easy but a lot of you pessimists are making it sound a lot more difficult than it actually is and I can't fathom why. If you're PTTing and trying to call back, again, someone will hear you. Maybe not the plane. Maybe not ground control. But someone will hear you and know exactly what frequency you're on, and be able to relay that information.

I've never seen an inline PTT on a headset

I'm thinking primarily of those buttons that strap to the yoke on smaller aircraft. The one's I've seen are unfortunately unlabeled and red, but the headset is plugged directly into them so the exception to the rule about red buttons.

example: https://www.pilot-usa.com/adapters/ptt.html

But the Airbus radio panel might be a little too obscure, especially if it were tuned in a weird way like to HF in oceanic airspace, or to nothing at all.

I will state once more that if you (as the unfortunate passenger) don't know for certain how to tune the radio, you probably shouldn't even try until you're being coached by someone who does. Until then just keep hitting the transmit button if you can find it and calling mayday with whatever information you have, particularly airline & flight number.

Ultimately I think its most likely that in this hypothetical situation that the hero of the day would likely inadvertently disconnect the autopilot or do something undesirable (like applying too much force on the yoke or sidestick and disconnecting the autopilot that way) before successfully finding the PTT switch.

Maybe so, but I'm always hesitant when calling out odds and using words like "most" with so little actual understanding of how people behave in situations like this when they occur outside a Hollywood script.

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doctor--whom@reddit

I have been in the cockpit of an airliner, flying around when someone has stopped responding on the radio. What ATC normally does is to call on guard for the unresponsive aircraft and if that doesn't work they will ask nearby aircraft to do the same both on guard and on the last assigned ATC frequency. With all the players in this situation knowing what they're doing, it can take 10 minutes or so to coordinate this web of relays to find the unresponsive plane if they ever get in contact at all. What they don't do even after an hour is

issue instructions on how to tune the radio or switch to the other radio in the stack.

Where have you flown where a controller has arrived at the assumption that a passenger/flight attendant needed instructions on how to work a radio or this is part of their training? I've heard planes disappear into the ether for upwards of an hour and I haven't heard this happen. I've heard airplanes fly straight across the DC restricted airspace without speaking on the radio, yelled at angrily on guard for an hour without an ATC surmising that they need instructions on how to use a radio.

Now put a complete novice up front, who might not know what the guard frequency even is let alone how to tune it or how to and how long would it take. And all this while the plane goes hundreds of miles away tuned to god knows what frequency, especially if our hero has attempted to adjust the radio and now is on no known frequency. Like first off, what proportion of people even know that 121.5 is the aviation emergency frequency? Or that it is commonly tuned on VHF 2? I bet almost no one. So how would they even arrive at the idea of switching to VHF 2 to initiate communications? Certainly not 50% of men. And then depending on the stage of flight that this scenario happens its not a given that there would necessarily be a lot of excess fuel (i.e time) for our hero to figure this all out. They might only have an hour until they run out of fuel if this happens towards the end of a flight.

And this is all assuming that this occurs in VHF range, if this were to happen in oceanic airspace, there truly would be no one to hear transmissions in the blind for thousands of miles. Would our hero make mayday calls for hours? Or would they take their chances trying to fly the plane on their own? I routinely turn off the transmit functions of the radio entirely in oceanic airspace, as there is no need to transmit for hours on end so its not exactly implausible that the radio would be in a state where simply finding the PTT would be enough. And as I've said before, would someone even be able to tell they weren't transmitting successfully or just assuming they weren't heard, because there's no visual indication that would make it obvious that they were or weren't transmitting.

All the real life pilots and ATC have expressed their doubts on whether this would even be possible, and I've got to say I certainly don't have fewer doubts after reading more comments, and certainly not 50% of men.

You called out my use of most; do you really think greater than 50% of people could figure this out at all given no guidance? Or that most of the time ATC would just start assuming that someone needed help working the radios? I mean empirically while everyone got the broad strokes right, the detail matters here if one has any shot at actually communicating with anyone.

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Mimshot@reddit

unlabeled red button

Yeah. When I’ve asked people, the ones who guess 50/50 hit the AP disconnect.

talking to someone

If you’ve been flying for a while since the pilots were incapacitated there’s a good chance you’re out of range of the station you were talking to and it’s very unlikely anyone is in range and listening on whatever the last frequency was. Being on someone’s scope doesn’t mean they can talk to you. There is an emergency frequency you could tune to (if you know how to work the radio) that’s monitored everywhere but even you, who seems more knowledgeable than most about aviation didn’t mention it.

over the ocean

Now you need to find the HF radio instead of the standard VHF radio. It’s another whole system that even a lot of airline pilots might not be familiar with.

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alzee76@reddit

If you’ve been flying for a while since the pilots were incapacitated there’s a good chance you’re out of range of the station you were talking to and it’s very unlikely anyone is in range and listening on whatever the last frequency was.

This depends entirely on your location. Over the sea, I agree. Over populated areas of land, there are probably hundreds if not thousands of people listening with scanners that will hear you. One of them is bound to call the police and get the ball rolling on your behalf.

but even you, who seems more knowledgeable than most about aviation didn’t mention it.

I didn't mention it because most people will not know how to tune the radio, and shouldn't even try unless they're being explicitly coached on how to do so. I do know what it is.

Now you need to find the HF radio instead of the standard VHF radio

You don't need to use the HF. Just don't touch the frigging plane's controls if it's flying along steadily and chances are good you'll encounter populated land. Not 100% of course, but nothing in life is, and if you don't know what you're doing then they're a good deal higher than disengaging the AP and just randomly making turns out over the ocean.

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SkyEclipse@reddit

Real question, is there some place to learn the basics of what to do in event of pilot incapacitation? Like how to figure out which button is PTT and which one is the autopilot switch lol

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Illustrious_Crab1060@reddit

getting a sport or private license. Something very similar to this happened to helios flight 522, unfortunately it ran out of fuel

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SkyEclipse@reddit

Yeah watching that accident (very tragic and sad) and the recent surge(?) of cases where the passenger had to land the plane because the pilot went out for multiple reasons made me a bit wary. Also no thanks to my mind that always wants to be prepared in the event of any kind.

Guess a PPL or some flight sim would help.

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gmc98765@reddit

is there some place to learn the basics of what to do in event of pilot incapacitation?

Flight school?

But realistically, the "by the way, does anyone know how to fly a plane?" situation is even less likely than having to deal with quicksand or a shark attack or a snapped lift (elevator) cable. The odds are probably on a par with being struck by a meteorite.

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alzee76@reddit

Hmmm.. I don't think so? It's like studying for Jeopardy. Just play with flight sims so you have a basic idea of how the damn things work and what the instrumentation looks like, the higher fidelity the better, and then.. I don't know. Look at various models of headsets I guess? Flight crew often bring their own, but they're all pretty similar, with a button somewhere on the cable coming off the headset.

1CorinthiansSix9@reddit

Ah, but you know people who know how to land the airplane

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climb-via-is-stupid@reddit

How to land a small Cessna/cherokee yeah. That’s incredibly different from an airliner. The basics would be there I suppose. But again, getting my coworkers to answer their phone when their off duty they ain’t doing it and I don’t blame em

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Bursting_Radius@reddit

I think the assumption with ATC here is that you would be able to get the right person on comms fairly quickly, not actually talk the plane down yourself.

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climb-via-is-stupid@reddit

And I’m gonna reiterate that the “fairly quickly” part is the problem.

At least at my airport, we just don’t care because it’s such a bullshit scenario that we don’t even consider it to be remotely feasible enough to have some sort of protocol. We literally have checklists for everything, and for this specific scenario we honestly don’t even care.

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Bursting_Radius@reddit

That’s demoralizing, y’all are supposed to be the experts 😂

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I have a feeling that even if there were zero pilots on the ATC staff at an airport, they could scramble to find a pilot at the airport. It's not like they'd only have 30 seconds to find one.

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climb-via-is-stupid@reddit

I wrote this elsewhere:

Many control towers aren’t located in the terminals, and if they are they usually don’t have the right badge/ID to get through security, usually towers are across the airport property or just generally in a place where we don’t need access to the secure area (beyond tsa) as it’s not relevant. Damn near all the approach controls aren’t even at the airport. And the Centers aren’t even in the same states as most of their airports (except Fort Worth).

Sooooooo that option is out.

For example Newark.

The control tower is outside of the terminals. A 15min walk to the terminals where you don’t have a security badge to get past tsa.

The approach control for Newark is in Philadelphia.

The center for Newark is in the middle of Long Island.

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Lemerney2@reddit

Surely you could send a call through to a pilot though?

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climb-via-is-stupid@reddit

i know three that i work with... and none of them are answering a call from work on their off time.

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swohio@reddit

An airliner typically has how much extra fuel though? 30 minutes? An hour? I'm just saying in an emergency situation they could probably scramble and find someone.

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climb-via-is-stupid@reddit

For the fuel, no clue, not a pilot or ever trained as one.

I’m sure we could. And in that entire time I’m sure we give FAA management just enough time to go through their channels and lawyers to tell us absolutely do not let a rando talk on the frequency

WhileProfessional286@reddit

Because of the old "I stayed at the Holiday Inn last night" commercials.

danit0ba94@reddit

Did he stutter

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BelgianEntrepreneur@reddit

I feel so targeted by this comment… 😂😂

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LadyOfCogs@reddit

I think I have close to that at MSFS + vatsim. CAT III and ATC on alert? Airplane might survive and maybe even some people inside (I wouldn't bet on it). No CAT? Let's go around to make sure people have chance to update their wills...

But what about someone who just popped a Mentos?

Considering in most cases you can play Microsoft Flight Sim without ever having to even use the rudder, this would be very different than what they are used to.

Or a Forza Horizon player who's never used the brakes at all.

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Plank_of_String@reddit

Most airliners have yaw dampers, so for the actual flying bit it wouldn't be a problem. The only times you really need the rudder is for crosswind landings and directional control on the runway.

(Except for GA aircraft ofc where you need the rudder to coordinate the turns)

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Seienchin88@reddit

That’s actually what I remember from a couple of flying lessons in a simulator (so a mechanical one to train pilots…) the rudder being mostly used for cross winds when landing…

So in case crosswinds wouldn’t be that bad and a somewhat rough and botched landing with just a couple of injuries would be acceptable then one might get lucky…

But adjusting the thrust without help on a large passenger jet seems extremely risky at best… without guidance anyone would end up too fast or too slow while descending…

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nn123654@reddit

Sure, but this is relying on an automatic feature and is missing a fundamental flight characteristic. This means you fundamentally have no idea what you're doing.

If you rely on all the automatic features including autopilot and ILS, in theory it should not be too bad as long as you understand roughly where everything is and know how to run a checklist.

At a minimum you'd need to enter the heading, speed, and altimeter and intercept the localizer, then set the ILS with autothrottles on until you reach decision height, plus set the right flaps setting. You also need to know how to activate Take Off/Go Around (TO/GA) in case of a missed approach. Most planes are not setup for ILS Cat III so they don't have full autoland capability.

The average person would be totally screwed if you had any non-normal or emergency procedures though or if the aircraft was not in straight and level flight with the autopilot and autotrim engaged when they started.

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Plank_of_String@reddit

Oh for sure, the average person would stand no chance of flying a plane. Iirc there was a study a while back about if ppl's could fly an airliner and most of them couldn't even adjust the seat. But my point is, in most modern airliners you don't need to use the rudder because it does it for you (to counter dutch roll mostly)

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mrbubbles916@reddit

I think in a scenario where a passenger is calling ATC to delcare an emergency they are going to have someone on the other hand walk them through all those steps. So they don't necessarily need to know it all or even use any of it. If they can follow the instructions given then there is always a chance it works out.

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Archer-Saurus@reddit

Who even needs a rudder everyone knows you roll the plane 25% and just pull the stick up.

I mean it's no wonder you guys can't land an airliner.

/s

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thesuperunknown@reddit

Yaw is literally an entire axis that most flight sim players gloss over.

This is ridiculous claim that you’ve just completely made up. Anyone serious enough about flight simulation to spend hundreds of hours in a sim is very likely to have invested in the gear, including at least basic rudder pedals.

It sounds like you’ve probably dabbled in MSFS a little with your Xbox controller yourself, and have decided that your experience can be extrapolated to everyone else.

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nn123654@reddit

I'm not talking about people who are seriously into flight simulators spending hundreds of hours on the game. Yes, those people by in large have rudder pedals.

I'm talking about most people who play the game. Which at the moment includes most people installing it on GamePass or playing it on XBox, primarily as a graphics or tech demo of the platform. If most people dumped hundreds of hours into them then we'd have way more than just DCS, XPlane, and MS Flight Sim to choose from (yes there are more, but these are the biggest options).

Flight sims are already a niche genre, and most people do not spend hundreds of hours on them. The average player who "beats" or "completes" MS Flight Sim spends 24 hours on it according to How Long to Beat.

Personally I have all the platforms (PS 5, XBox, PC, and Oculus) and have played before with rudder pedals and a joystick, arguably what you need to have an even remotely realistic experience. I've also had the opportunity to try out full motion simulators before and fly an actual airplane.

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thesuperunknown@reddit

Okay. The comment you directly replied to was literally about people with hundreds of hours in flight sims:

To quote “Hey pilot I have 300~ hours on MFS, I’ll be here if you need me”

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Snck_Pck@reddit

Dumb comment. Flight simmers would atleast have an understanding of squawk channels and basic knowledge that’ll allow them to contact ATC and be guided down to safety

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RKEPhoto@reddit

Many (most?) GA aircraft have an aileron/rudder interconnect feature, so one can actually fly and land the aircraft with no rudder input.

A2Rhombus@reddit

Yeah autoland is very good and autopilot features are very easy to use as long as someone is telling you how to use them

The hardest part is someone with 0 pilot experience figuring out how to use the radio and call ATC for instruction lol

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ScottOld@reddit

There is a a video where he explains how to actually land a 737 as well including how to work the radio

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RelaxPrime@reddit

So I'll just watch that while I take over

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ImmaZoni@reddit

"Don't worry everyone I got this!"

Loads YouTube

"No Connection... you must pay $8.99 for in fight WiFi"

"Ehhhh fuck that"

I’m one of these people, but I base my guess on the fact that I have like 2000 hours across various flight sims, know the names of most basic controls, could get in contact with ATC for guidance, and have actually flown a (small) plane successfully before.

I’d say my chances go down a good bit if the emergency involved the radios being out though.

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rottedammer@reddit

There are many different airplanes. It’s not like stepping into a semi truck from a 4x4 or so. The difference between airplanes is much much bigger. It takes skilled and experienced pilots months of training to be able to handle another airplane. Eventually, they all come down, preferably before the fuel runs out. Only pilots that have intricate knowledge and experience in the exact same airplane would be able to “ talk someone down”

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Envy661@reddit

With ATC, sure. Anyone probably could.

Blind? I couldn't do a passenger plane, but I could probably do most prop planes, and maybe some turboprops. I've played enough MSFS2020 to know how to do it, given I play with all realistic settings. I do still struggle finding the correct runway though, so maybe not.

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brksmar@reddit

I believe they have automated landing systems.

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Yeah all that training and the 1500hrs to get the license is such BS.

Industry joke: Pilot and flight attendant new hires are in the training center.

Pilot - How long is your training?

FA - Six weeks. You?

Pilot - I’m here for eight.

FA - Wow! Two more weeks and I could’ve been a pilot.

Sums up most in this thread.

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Sprzout@reddit

I could probably do it, provided I was coming in somewhere like Oakland or Las Vegas, where they have a long, clear approach.

But then, I also have flight experience, so I understand a lot of the basics of flight, and what I'd need to do to get the plane down somewhat safe - and I'd be screaming for ATC or someone to try and help me get the plane down. SOMEONE would be able to help get me through comms to the right channels, tell me how to line up, even if it's getting in touch with someone on a different channel broadcast.

As long as the plane itself is not damaged the hardest Part would be getting into contact with ATC from there on out Landing a plane with Autoland would be doable for most people

Ladelnutts@reddit

I could land the jets on the Top Gun game for Nintendo so I feel confident.

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Buddiboi95@reddit

To be fair, i also believe i can... but I had some training by my uncle who was a pilot.

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VladSquirrelChrist@reddit

I have a client who flies for one of the majors, he says the Airbus he flies completely lands itself in zero visibility conditions. Taking off the plane can take over from the pilot at 100' off of the ground.

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Depends on what you consider landing.

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tekfx19@reddit

I wonder if ChatGPT could help someone land a jetliner.

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ValidDuck@reddit

As a layman.... I will 100% land the thing.

the entire post is one ambiguous sentence.

50% of men:

50% of men on that plane? or at the tower? working together or alone?

land a passenger plane:

land and walk away? land perfectly

a passenger plane:

a 777 or A318? both?

in an emergency:

are we talking pilot is dead, the wing is on fire, and there's snow on the ground? or is the pilot fine, he just broke his glasses, and you're the only other person on the plane?

"Good thing I don't have a pilots licence 😎"

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Nexustar@reddit

Yeah, but landing on the wrong runway without a pilots license translates to 500 points on your driving license.

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deleted_by_reddit@reddit

[removed]

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AutoModerator@reddit

Your post/comment has been automatically removed due to Low Effort. Continued posts will create a permanent ban. I am an automated system.

I flew hella planes in GTA, I’m the captain now

https://youtube.com/shorts/ysPH6S_g4DY?si=rsSOMvTkOQJIUhMF

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ontheroadtv@reddit

100% of women also know that’s not the only thing they are over confidant about.

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Utterlybored@reddit

I could it, but not safely.

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texan01@reddit

I can land a plane, but having it reusable is a whole different question.

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W33b3l@reddit

The average person? Oh god no. People with at least some general aircraft experience? They could work the radios and use the controls but might not be able to figure out the FMS. Best case scenario would be a private pilot making it to the runway but damaging the gear honestly.

If I'm on a plane that's gonna crash, I'll take my chances at least TRYING to land it.

I have little experience with planes, but I've driven/piloted/captained a lot of other types of vehicle.

If I'm going to die anyway, what's the harm in trying?

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Vega3gx@reddit

I think there's a lot of ambiguity in this question, and I think a lot of people in this sub interpret it as "land the plane on the intended runway with no injuries and no damage to the aircraft". My first interpretation would be "bring the plane to a complete stop on any flat piece of ground with fewer injuries than no if intervention was applied"

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Briskylittlechally2@reddit

Sitting behind your desk with a plastic stick and rudder is easy. But already experiencing a full motion simulator with force feedback controls is a pretty rude snap back to reality.

If you're not expecting it, having to wrestle the controls is gonna startle you so bad, you'd probably forget everything you're supposed to do besides keeping it on course.

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W33b3l@reddit

Oh I agree. G-forces and feedback in a real plane (plus the fact that Sims have a hard time making specific planes land like they really do) is a massive difference. Plus there's the monitor VS real life issue, VR helps but not completely.

I actually still actively sim when I can, have for years, although I have flown a real plane before (never actually got my license though do to monetary constraints) and believe me I realize how different it is.

Wich is honestly why I only think a simmer could handle it well with AP on assuming the plane they sim in is accurate. If they had to disengage to land things would get hary very quickly.

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Iamatworkgoaway@reddit

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/florida-passenger-lands-plane/index.html

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Sure_Comfort_7031@reddit

https://youtu.be/TzRhDyyOlcM?si=7vkAWXmihLCfXK7T

4eyedbuzzard@reddit

Most of us men think we are stallions in bed too.

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ZCT808@reddit

Planes practically land themselves these days. Look for the auto pilot in the middle area of the cockpit. Press the land now button, then jump on the radio and let the cabin know everything is going to be okay. Light a cigar.

Car_loapher@reddit

I don’t think I can do it but I would like to try it

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ApocryphaJuliet@reddit

Taking OFF in a modern airliner is incredibly ifficult.

Flying it is once it's already in the air and at-speed is far simpler, the 9/11 terrorists come to mind since we have some idea about their shortcut training.

Landing it, well people that can find the radio and have never flown before have been talked into successful landings. There isn't a huge sample size here from real emergency situations, but I find it pretty reasonable to believe that they could touch the plane down on the longest cleared runway and slow it enough without having to understand the majority of controls if they're being talked down over the radio.

It may or may not still qualify as a crash landing, but all the difficult parts of getting the plane flying steady and likely having the autopilot set up to keep them flying steady is presumably already finished before both pilot and copilot become incapacitated.

These posts always seem heavily sexist anyway, like the Serena Williams one.

A match of tennis is more than a single game and there are always to score a point without actually scoring against her, and professional tennis players do indeed still make those mistakes; ergo it's possible to get a point against Serena via unforced errors (you would still lose, but winning wasn't the objective).

But it's more clickbait to say "men delusional".

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joebananas99@reddit

Well flying it with the intention of crashing is a slightly different scenario than flying and walking away at the end.

On a typical flight between two CAT A airports without operational limiting aspects, everything working and no weather to consider nothing is inherently challenging IF you know what you are doing. That doesn't mean its inherently easy, there's loads of things that can go wrong, its easy for us because we had extensive initial training and still have biannual recurrent trainings, carefully designed standard operating procedures, clearly defined roles and tasks, experience of the operation and much more that enables us to work very efficiently and effectively as team upfront. Take one team member out and it's a already a big challenge for the remaining trained pilot.

Modern flight management systems are not inherently difficult to program however, while they are extremely good at doing exactly what you tell them to do, they are bad at presenting the information and even worse at making sense of it and telling you. Its garbage in, garbage out, whether or not it makes sense what you put in, the aircraft will do exactly what you put into its management system. Autoflight mode confusion happens to experienced pilots and there's a reason the Airbus jokes "What's it doing now? It never did that before..." exist. But even if our layman hero would somehow manage to be talked into setting up an arrival routing and an ILS approach correctly with remote instruction (extremely unlikely), the aircraft will not just do it all with the press of a button, you still have to manage the flight path, dissipate energy, engage the correct modes and appropriatly configure the airplane so that the autoflight system can actually safely land the plane.

So we have a layman hero now, never sat in the seat in an all or nothing scenario for real (not a simulator) thinking that he can pull this off? It's straight up delusional.

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ce402@reddit

This answer is way too low.

Apparently nobody has ever tried to talk someone through how to configure an IDE hard drive in a PC’s BIOS back in the day over the phone.

Then couple in the time crunch of running out of radio range or fuel. Stress of the situation, AND the person on the other end not understanding how half-duplex communication systems work.

UNC_ABD@reddit

I could definitely land a plane.

Do experts say 50% of men canNOT land a passenger plane in an emergency?

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HilariousButTrue@reddit

Drop the wheels, bring the plane to the ground. How hard can it be?

/s

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Aerodye@reddit

I have an aerospace engineering degree and have hundreds of hours on MFS

Are sky Marshalls trained for emergency landing?

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Famous-Example-8332@reddit

What do the rat if the guys think, it’s just going to stay in the sky forever?

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nevadita@reddit

i know i can at least try a rough landing, i have landed A320s and newish 737s with assistance disabled on MFSX/2020, sure the real deal will be different from a feedback perspective. but at least i know my way on those cockpits. also approach control will assist you. and thats why knowing how to man the radios can be a difference. radio terminology will be rough tho

an older cable operated plane like a mad dog i have less confidence.

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RawrRRitchie@reddit

It really depends if they're on the radio getting help from the ground or not

Also the size of the passenger plane matters too

A smaller plane with a capacity of let's say 24 people, is a helluva lot easier to land than a jumbo jet with like 300+ people

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dogarmpit@reddit

I’d definitely try

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HermeticLove@reddit

Well, I agree. There are no specifications listed here saying the landing has to be flawless, or the passengers even have to be OK, or that the plane even has to be intact. So I'm sure just about anyone could land a plane. Just not properly, or even well.

Had to take the opportunity to be a smartass, sorry. It's better than being a dumbass though...

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sephsworld9132@reddit

I’ve seen it done so many times on TV… I got those

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azinize@reddit

I can land it, but will we survive is the question.

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cthulucore@reddit

I am not one of these men.

One of my employees is a CDL driver and was out sick one day. We suddenly realized no one at the shop knew how to drive his truck.

I said "fuck it" how hard can it be to move his truck across the street out of the way?

I sat in the cab, and it took me 15 minutes to figure out how to get the thing to physically move, and it was an automatic.

There were literally 50+ buttons and switches on the dash.

We would die in that plane.

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senseiHODL@reddit

Lower speed, hit the flaps, landing gear at lower altitude, upward pitch slightly on landing.

This stuff always cracks me up. I've got about 10hrs in light aircraft (Cessna 182s and a single 90min ride in a Yak-15, where I got the controls for about 10mins), and while I'm pretty sure I could land a Cessna and live, I'd almost certainly break both my legs and give the insurance adjuster a very confusing day at the office. Anything bigger or faster than that, and I'll make the best try of it I can, but merely because life is sweet and I'm a stubborn bastard who refuses to go quietly. I know I'm a smear at that point, but the forms must be observed.

An airliner?! Fuck me running, I'd be lucky to figure out the radio to call for help, nevermind actually controlling the damn thing, or knowing when to deploy the starboard ailertooter. It's part of why I detest airline travel: I hate being "spam in a can." I know I'd have no chance to save myself, and that's...uncomfey.

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jakgal04@reddit

If you can remain calm and not scream and panic like a wild fucking ape, then you certainly can.

Put on the earpiece, listen to the commands given to you, do what they say and you can land.

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Unpigged@reddit

I landed a full sized actuated cockpit simulator of a A320 with a support of flight instructor (he did some adjustments on the control panel but most of the work I did myself) in (simulated) Leipzig and then Innsbruck airport. Had to take two approaches to align correctly in the Wipptal and adjust for the wind. Have no pilot license and never piloted anything larger than a kite or paper plane before.

That being said, if anything, and I mean anything would have gone wrong... Welcome to boom boom. Modern airplanes are incredibly safe, but there's a reason a pilot is needed to react to out of ordinary situations.

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dr_van_nostren@reddit

50%? How many people would even realistically be able to get in radio contact? Sure you could put the cans on and just yell mayday mayday and hope someone responds, but depending on where you are or what frequency you’re on you might get nothing right?

With a LOT of guidance I think I could attempt it. I’d probably fail horribly but not totally nose dive into the ground. But LAND safely? I dunno. I think I’m fully capable of learning and practicing and getting it right. But with no training and no one hands on helping…I’d be in really tough.

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Dismal_Hedgehog9616@reddit

I could do it. I mean I couldn’t ever land a plane on flight sim but that’s a game.

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dayz_bron@reddit

Tbh with someone talking you through it i think most people would be able to do it. Flying isn't as hard as people think it is. Granted, it probably would be a soft landing.

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swordfish_1969@reddit

50% of people have an IQ under 100. Dunning Kruger in real life

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esacnitsuj@reddit

Just watched thispassenger landing an airliner recently. They had good success with radio guidance from a pilot.

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I successfully got as far as soloing a Cessna 172 about 20 years ago. (Then we got a mortgage...)

I also have lots of PC flight simulator time including on the 737.

For my birthday just a few years ago, my friend got me time in one of the very realistic Dream Aero full-size cockpit 737 flight simulators that are in some fancy malls. There's an instructor sitting next to you coaching you moment to moment.

Even with all this in my favor, flying the plane into a landing was incredibly tense and difficult. Things start happening really fast. In that full-sized cockpit, my PC sim muscle memory may have hurt as much as it helped. I did land the plane twice, but I have very little confidence I could hand fly a real landing with only ATC advice.

Can confirm, feels like every control input takes 10 seconds to occur.

I'm fairly confident I could land a C172 or similar after a few passes / go arounds or on a long runway 1st or 2nd go.

Being talked to to enter auto landing settings etc is different but plausible if you're calm enough and can understand instructions, follow them etc.

Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing.

The “talking it through” factor is huge. I flew gliders for years. I’m very confident I could land, if I knew how to co from flaps, throttle, gear etc. without that I’d surely crash.

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Iamthe0c3an2@reddit

With planes automation these days yes I think so, with guidance.

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RedditModsSuckNuts88@reddit

r/DiveInYouCoward

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Agitated-Zebra4334@reddit

I’ve landed a 737 in a real flight training sim. It can be done.

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InsomniaticWanderer@reddit

100% of men can land a passenger plane.

It's whether or not the passengers can walk away from it that's in question.

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Kiardras@reddit

"This landing could get pretty interesting"

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That's a chance you can program autopilot until touch down, auto breaks on emergency mode will stop airplane fairly quick (not as comfortable as a long soft landing but completely safe)

Maybe "pilot" may lose the runways center but completely doable.

Source: former pilot, astronaut and dinosaur vet here.

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CanadianBurger@reddit

Just watched this yesterday

A&P 50 years.

In Microsoft flight sim I talked my 5 year old to land at Logan airport

I’m no pilot, just a simple truck driver 😅

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prepare__yourself@reddit

Dunning-Kruger effect

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eardrumforbass@reddit

I thought I wanted to be a pilot until I was in a simulator flying a 757.

Just in case anyone was interested in the specific question they were asked. It was from a YouGov Poll.

How confident are you that you could safely land a passenger airplane in an emergency situation, relying only on the assistance of air traffic control?

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We're men, you missed a key word, safely. Can we land the plan? Yes. Safely? No, but it's worth a try. 🤷‍♂️

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hndrk_schbrt@reddit

As a glider pilot who has a little knowledge on how commercial flights are executed..... yea, gimme instructions and I should be able to do it. Landing's gonna suck though, unless autoland is available.

Now, this is assuming we have ATC instructions, without them I'd be getting confused.

The average person with no knowledge or flight experience at all however...... nope

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AFireAtTheAquarium@reddit

This is ten percent luck

Twenty percent skill

Fifteen percent concentrated power of will

Five percent pleasure

Fifty percent pain

And a hundred percent reason to land the fucking plane.

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UnMeOuttaTown@reddit

Just watched the movie "Flights"[Denzel Washington], and I am sure I can land even a crashing flight

CompetitiveCut1457@reddit

I have flown a 762 IRL and played MS Flight Sim, and I'm pretty sure I couldn't land a passenger plane without assistance.

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ear2theshell@reddit

I can, I totally can. I mean... just push the "Land" button... right?

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pavehawkfavehawk@reddit

More than would be able to land a helicopter

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TruePace3@reddit

Depends really

Like everyone said , considering a highly advanced airplane with autoland and an airport that supports it, and a good enough ATC, yeah

Or else

If there is Internet access on board and me and the passengers are really lucky, yeah, I'd somehow magically manage to enter a holding pattern into the FMC and spin around until the fuel is low enough, then proceed to very VERY gently crash it

Varso13@reddit

I think I can bench press 1500 lbs

Doesn't mean I can

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Zulakki@reddit

Landing is the easy part....regardless of skill or confidence, all those planes are gonna come down

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TruePace3@reddit

We stallin tonight

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Cheetahs_never_win@reddit

Oh, I promise 100% can.

Walking away from it? That's something else.

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B-rad-israd@reddit

I grew up playing flight sims and started but didn’t finish Air traffic controller training.

With perfect weather and completely operational airplane with ATC clearing the traffic in front of me? I’m 85% sure I could get the plane back on the ground safely without casualties.

Working the radios isn’t the issue, I could likely fly a pretty decent ILS approach with some guidance from ATC, and I understand the basics of flight control and how to read instruments.

But troubleshooting an issue on the airplane or dealing with an engine failure or loss of systems? Hell no. We’re all likely going down.

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TruePace3@reddit

From my "very limited knowledge" on airplane, one should shut off the fuel flow to the damaged engine

But the thing is, idk which one is engine 1 and engine 2, i think, engine 1 is on the left side and engine 2 is on the right

My experience suggests maybe, with some major issues (never mind just getting into the cockpit).

The first sim I flew was a NASA sim of a Convair 990, c. 1970. All manual. All analog gauges. No ATC. At the time I had some very limited experience in 172s and the like. I crashed the thing EVERY TIME, because of overcontrol and PIO (pilot-induced oscillation).

a few years later, I was in the right seat of a CV340, watching my father shot T&G. The thing I noticed was how fast and small his yoke inputs were, while maintaining an absolutely straight line approach. My own attempts wandered, but I did put it down without much bother.

I was never able to get a good landing in our Cessna 195, but that's a round-engine taildragger and is probably not relevant.

Years later I hand-flew a Beech QueenAir from Santa Barbara to San Jose. A passenger remarked afterward, that she thought I had the autopilot engaged.

Radio management was easy in those days, as long as you understood the basics, like what 121.5 was.

HOWEVER, the first time I looked at a modern glass cockpit, I was totally lost. I THINK I could have managed basic comm. But managing the autopilot, or setting up a coupled approach without lots of handholding? No way.

I think my main advantage would be that I understand the basics, and if ATC starts talking about "autothrottle" or "coupled approach" I'd at least understand what they were talking about.

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50calBanana@reddit

As a layman with this post being recommended, I can confidently say that I would have no idea what any of those buttons do.

For the average person? Well, if they can figure out how to work the radio, and can be talked through programming a flight path into the computer, it’s definitely worth a shot, I’d say a 30-50% chance of getting the plane to at least the vicinity of an airport. Bonus points for actually hitting the runway. If the plane has autoland, the odds go up quite a bit.

I believe that if I started at altitude (to make sure I had enough time to find the relevant controls) with someone really good providing guidance on the radio and all other air traffic warned away,I could probably get the plane on the ground without killing anyone. I am NOT saying that the plane would be worth salvaging or that anyone's luggage would be unscathed, just that I think I could bargain with gravity well enough to get us to a spot where competent emergency response workers could take over.

I'll take that bet.

You pay for the sim time in a certified sim - CAE, Flight Safety, etc.

I pick the aircraft and scenario.

Or, we do it in a real plane like a 172 or a Piper.

I'm no expert, and I'm 85% certain that I could land a passenger plane in an emergency.

Granted, the plane would most likely disintegrate on impact, but technically it would no longer be 'airborne' either.

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Blufish312@reddit

If it's anything like trying to land top on the aircraft carrier in Top Gun for NES, everyone on that plane is fucking dead. 😬

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AllTheWorldIsAPuzzle@reddit

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't crash the passenger plane. The military aircraft trailing me would make sure that didn't happen.

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Elephlump@reddit

Have I daydreamed about this while on a plane? Of course. I'm sure many have.

My best friend is an airline pilot, I've sat through sims with him, our teenage years were full of long days flying airliners in Microsoft flight sim. We've gone up in small craft together.

If it came down to it, I am at least familiar with the workings of an aircraft and the order of operations during a landing. If there were zero pilots on board, I'm sure I would be better than someone who has never seen a cockpit interior and has zero familiarity with the controls.

With that said, solid 50/50 chance I kill everyone even with someone talking me through it haha.

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ansb2011@reddit

Depends on the definition of landed. Brought the plane down at a not too sharp angle and people survive? Maybe not so hard.

There is an override. That is the override for some aircraft. I used a generic term "override" instead of a specific term "keypad" for two reasons: 1. I don't think the specifics of this information should be easy to find online. I do my part in keeping it that way by being vague. 2. It isn't always a keypad. I've worked on aircraft with no fewer than 3 radically different types of flight deck door override.

As it happens, my "mechanic" flare isn't BS. I've fixed these systems before, I have a good understanding of how they work.

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MrPanzerCat@reddit

I mean, landing in theory shouldnt be that hard... in theory. The worst issue for someone would be finding controls ie gear, reading instruments, etc, given its a perfect day and there is no wind, rain etc. Throw a nasty side wind, rain or other bad weather and the ease of landing goes down significantly.

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thatsnotyourtaco@reddit

I don’t know if I could land on a specific runway but maybe on a flat enough plane I could?

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Helaken1@reddit

Cant like a 12 yr old land a plane if given instructions?

Never tell me the odds.

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deleted_by_reddit@reddit

[removed]

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Zippier92@reddit

Deleted, my bad!

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MetaIIII@reddit

Yep.

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Internal_Button_4339@reddit

You realise controllers don't (usually) know how to land an airliner either?

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xcission@reddit

There are protocol in place for these situations, although i believe the usual assumption is that there is hopefully someone on board the plane with some degree of experience flying planes but will need help managing a model the size of the plane in question. However, these procedures are the motus operandi even if you aren't someone who's flown before. In the broadest terms, the people who will relay that information to you would fall under the term of air traffic control.

In much the same way that 911 call center operators are not doctors, but have protocol in place to help you administer first aid till help can arrive.

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Internal_Button_4339@reddit

Dude, there are protocols for everything we do. Some of us even fly light aircraft. The protocol for this one is basically to get the SAR/airport fire service ready, and try and find a pilot who is rated on the type.

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KLfor3@reddit

1st order of business is how do you access the flight deck in this day and age. Isn’t the cockpit door secured from the inside since 911?

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Available_Hunt7303@reddit

Tom Scott did a great video about this in a 737 cockpit simulator with Mentor Pilot. I recommend checking it out.

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tomgweekendfarmer@reddit

I play ms flight sim. I guarantee i could land a commercial playne. All of those aircrafts have autopilot and can literally land themselves on any airport with an ils runway.

I'm a pilot. I've had many friends jump in the sim of the plane I was current on including 737.

No untrained "dude" can land a plane without massive verbal and physical assistance.

For the heroes out there, start with an airliner at 39,000'. Pilots are incapacitated so it's your day! Get it to a survivable landing with your wife and kids onboard.

Good luck. Not happening. You don't even know where the transmit button is to communicate. And you don't know that communication is the last of your three priorities!

You'll come out of the sim mentally exhausted after you crash and feeling like you ran a marathon. And that's in a sim with no risk to anyone.

But yeah. 50% got this.

Redditonipad2@reddit

I ca land a plane. It won’t be in one piece but it will be on the ground

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Ridit5ugx@reddit

Extremely difficult and crash is extremely likely followed by fatalities.

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Gr0ggy1@reddit

A crash landing is still a landing.

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ImJustDuckinAround@reddit

Land it? Absolutely anyone can do it.

I landed a C-130 Hercules simm when I was 14 during a take your kid to work day on Base. Was the big Air Force one. Eotd was engine fire in engines 1, 3, and 4 (presumably from enemy fire i guess?). I had no idea what to do so i turned them off and landed back on the runway. It was a hard landing but i apparently "passed". Everyone else crashed.

That shit had me joining up when I was 18 lol

But ya, that's how I know i could probably do it. I am aware that passenger plane =/= military transport plane

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littlewetfart@reddit

They are right it should be 60%

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Eddie_Farnsworth@reddit

I've known since Flight Simulator '98 that we're all in trouble if I have to land a 747.

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Last_Hospital934@reddit

Where did you get that data?

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schadetj@reddit

I could totally land a plane.

I think I have a decent shot of doing it, if I have a person telling me exactly what buttons to press.

Solo? Nah dude I would just aim for water and hope for the best.

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StinkyPickles420@reddit

“Is anyone here a pilot!”

Me: “I have 2300 hours on record on Microsoft Flight Sim”

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Obscurereferee05@reddit

I easily could. I’ve played Roblox flight games

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chetsledge@reddit

My buddy and I were discussing this on a trip to belize a couple years ago. We had to use quite a few puddle jumpers to get to different places and both felt pretty good about or changed of either of us being able to land if needed... may be a huge flaw, but I don't feel like there's many things i couldn't do or be talked through if needed.... lol it would definitely be a bumpy landing though! 🤣

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So... why make it so complicated? I bet they could make it better.

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mthomp8984@reddit

I'm not a pilot, nor have any contact with them. Just by having too much time on my hands, AFAIK, not all airports have auto landing and even the ones that do, it's not on all runways. Even with someone that knows how to use the radio, a well trained pilot or pilot instructor on the other end, I'd take a wild guess and put the number closer to 0.5 - 2% would be able to land an airliner during good conditions and during daylight.

I was a firefighter for more than a decade. You'd be amazed at how many people couldn't use a simple extinguisher (Pull-Aim-Squeeze-Sweep) correctly. Spraying anywhere other than at the base of the fire, sweeping toward unburnt areas, not pulling the pin. Probably the same people thinking they could land a jet.

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With some assistance, I might be able to manage it. And either way, I'm certainly willing to dry. It beats doing nothing.

kingfisher-monkey-87@reddit

Me as an aviation nerd who can't ever fly due to a health condition ... I'd like to think I'd probably do halfway decently if everything was 100% perfectly working. Then again, if the pilots are both dead, there's probably a high likelihood that many other bad things have already happened so everyone would be screwed anyway.

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imnotcreative32@reddit

i mean I could definitely land it, idk about surviving the landing but i could definitely land it

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Maleficent_Sir_4753@reddit

I'm 100% sure I can land a plane. I'm also only 99% sure the plane will be smashed to pieces after.

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SCTigerFan29115@reddit

I know I could get that plane on the ground.

Landing is easy, anyone can do it. Landing and reusing the plane takes skill.

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sluffman@reddit

My brother is a Blackhawk pilot, he was FaceTiming my son last week from the cockpit (not in flight.) He was showing us how to turn it on…never in a million years would I have guess, oh yeah this thing up here. I would be dead, 0% chance of survival.

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batt3ryac1d1@reddit

You don't understand I've played a lot of KSP 😅

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The_Stockholm_Rhino@reddit

Check this one out:

Challenge Accepted! Can Tom Scott Land a B737 By Himself?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaOvtL6qYpc

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Lunnaris001@reddit

to be honest Tom didnt do a great job. As someone flying a bit of simulator (at home and a few times with proper ones used for pilot training) I had the feeling that a guy who is as smart as Tom Scott would do a better job at it. That being said of course you are in a high pressure situation even in the simulator, so its probably even worse in real life, so maybe that one got to him a bit and would probably get to me as well. Without ATC running me through things I would probably forget to turn the autobreak on or put the gear down in a high pressure situation lol.

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Jarasmut@reddit

The reason it didn't work out for him is in the end not being able to take the time to understand vertical speed and getting a remotely stable approach. If you aren't lined up with the runway and you are about to run into the ground why even attempt it? What's next, setting up autoland successfully but not mentioning how go-arounds work so when the AP disconnects the airplane is run into the ground yet again?

Miami_Mice2087@reddit

the point is the overconfidence of mediocre men

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Dat_Mustache@reddit

First time, raw, I tried landing a commercial airliner in the new MS Flight Simulator: I successfully ran off the end of the runway after 4 bounces! Ended up down in a ditch. Plane was intact. Pretty sure I had damage turned off at the time.

Tried it in simulator mode. Smashed that thing into the ground and flipped it.

I would argue if you can get the radio going and you are in an airbus plane which ideally had been configured properly before then your chances are pretty high.
That being said this is talking about an "emergency" where the only emergency is that in your theoretical world for some reason both pilots are passed out or sth. Like they both had a nut allergy and ate some cake someone made for the captain before the flight or sth.. If its an actual emergency, like an engine failure, I could certainly not see how some random person would land that thing.
I personally think some of the hardest parts is probably to even get the radio working for you and someone to hear you.

Boeings are a bit more complicated in my opinion, but maybe thats just my perception. It feels like they are still stuck in their old ways of thinking and havent really attempted to properly streamline processes in the cockpit to todays standards. Maybe its a pilot training thing, where they dont want pilots to require a complete new training, so they keep things close to how they used to be.

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CaptValentine@reddit

Welp, in my (and most) aircraft the button to talk to ATC or anyone that my be able to help you down to land is also on the same stick that has 4 different ways of disconnecting the autopilot.

Hundreds and hundreds (guessing) of hours in MFS over the past 30 years. I've crashed many, and landed many large planes.

I'm confident that with ATC I could land it, possibly smoothly. Most likely without crashing. Hopefully without killing anyone.

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TypicalSoil@reddit

I think theoretically most people who have some basic understanding of the principles could land it with fairly high survival rates (read: probably the first 3rd of the aircraft would likely all perish.) At least, assuming a fully functional aircraft. Older you go in terms of aircraft the less likely this becomes, and the more failed systems there are the worse the chances are as well.

There would be casualties and/or damage to the aircraft without a doubt, but if there was no other option then it could be worse.

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Or even if you want a safe landing, "could" means it isn't impossible. If you think you'd succeed at 1/billion you could land it, it is just extremely unlikely. To contrast if I was asked whether I could lift a jet, that would be just a straight up no I can't, a human being is physically incapable.

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Cu_Chulainn__@reddit

I could definitely land it. On its wheels? No. On its belly? No. On its back? Also no

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StefanTheNurse@reddit

I’m 100% certain we’d end up on the ground or in the water, but that’s just physics.

How much I contributed to this or how many people survived…I guess that’s mostly physics as well…

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attackplango@reddit

Top Gun on the NES has given me the confidence to know I will definitely crash the plane into the carrier.

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CaptJM@reddit

Play a lot of flight sim. Anything over the smallest private jets and I’m crashing.

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Forward_Cricket_8696@reddit

I have a pilots license and have no confidence that I could land a commercial jet. Of course if there was no other option, I would try. Going to smack pavement for sure if you don’t try.

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Specialist_Reality96@reddit

Airline pilots do it all the time, most of them would struggle to drive a school bus :P, most of them have a high level of automation and providing those in the plane can get the coms working well enough to talk to someone it's highly possible.

Boeing737_arm@reddit

I am certain the plane would reach the ground, almost certain that ground will be runway, confident that the landing will be survivable, and I guarantee there is a chance of being able to fly the plane again

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theblackxranger@reddit

Anyone can land a plane. Surviving is a different story

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QuicksandHUM@reddit

Just go full Sky King!

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FlyByPC@reddit

I probably could, at least with ATC assistance.

Land it safely or just land it?

I have zero experience and I’m not good at taking directions.

We all gonna die, but we getting to the ground faster than most.

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Odd-Bus9202@reddit

They can't land the plane. If the plane is fully functional, they could probably perform the steps necessary to get the plane safely on the ground with detailed instructions from an experienced pilot using autopilot.

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valrond@reddit

If the plane is in good working order with no problems, I'm sure that sim fliers could auto land the plane, specially if it is an Airbus. Hand flying is another matter.

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Odd-Bus9202@reddit

Hence, "untrained." Ie, someone like me. Though I would not trust myself to do this even if I were the last adult conscious on the plane, even using autopilot.

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valrond@reddit

Well, if the flight plan is already set, and you get in touch with ATC, it's not hard. Really. I was amazed the first time I auto landed on the Fenix A320.

But if you have to control the plane manually, well, that's a lot harder.

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Well, in case of both pilots being incapacitated, I’d rather have someone think they can, than everyone know they can’t.

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Opening-Ease9598@reddit

Yeah I feel like confidence plays a huge role in this lol, just not getting so stressed and panicking is going to help a lot in being able to understand directions from ATC or crew members.

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UncleBenji@reddit

Depends if you even know the basics of the flight deck. If someone said “point to the auto pilot” can you do it? Airbus and Boeing cockpits and setups are nearly complete opposite. If you can’t answer yes then find another person on the plane that can.

But there’s some serious people out there on Microsoft Flight Simulator that probably could do it and don’t currently hold a license to fly at all.

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Papa_PaIpatine@reddit

I'm 100% certain I could land the plane, after that, the percentages go down real fast. (crashing is landing, right?)

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Perezident14@reddit

Does a crash landing count?

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Gramerdim@reddit

"expert" need to land a plane men do it in mfs

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chetpajo@reddit

The likelihood of a catastrophic outcome due to an untrained person trying to land an airplane is largely why Garmin was awarded the Collier Trophy for their Emergency Autoland system in 2021.

*cracks knuckles*

with how I land in flightsims...

very difficult

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RIP Sky King

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_Kouki@reddit

I believe I could if I knew how to work the radios to have someone guide me lol but there's no way in hell I'd be able to do it blind.

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B10B25B7@reddit

I'm definitely not the 50 percent who thinks he can. But if all else failed, I would definitely give it a shot before just giving up.

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VaporSnek@reddit

Thing that never comes up with this question...day or night.

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Everybody can make an emergency landing at least once.

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TreSauce@reddit

I am not a pilot. I don’t believe I could land a plane. My brother is pretty confident he could land a plane. This stat tracks…

…my brother is a commercial pilot.

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EnvironmentCrafty710@reddit

The only really relevant question is "Can you work the radio?".

If you can, you're likely to be able to land. If not, you're screwed.

Most people do not know this or understand why.

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creepjax@reddit

Even in the event of an emergency, unless a passenger actually has a pilots license, the attendants are the most likely to take control of the plane. Most of the time the pilots will instruct flight attendants on what to do in case of emergencies where the pilots can do longer fly the plane.

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Shaggarooney@reddit

As long as I have someone on the radio talking me through it, Im sure Ill be able to land it one way or another...

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Better-Strike7290@reddit

Pretty sure I could do a "survivable crash land"

I have years of experience flying scale modell aircraft. Not these new fangled gyroscope balanced drones, but OG models your grandpa flew. The kind where a single flick of the finger and loss of concentration tanks hundreds of dollars.

So I have a basic working set of knowledge. Enough to do a "survivable crash/skid" landing.

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Rando_Art@reddit

50% of men also think they can land a supermodel if they can just convince her they’re cool enough to land a plane.🤣

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cantrecallthelastone@reddit

I know for certain that I could absolutely get it on the ground.

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ZeusTKP@reddit

I can land a 737 in Meigs Field
trust me

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K_Linkmaster@reddit

I blame Con Air for me thinking I could do it.

Pinball: Hey, man. You Swamp Thing?

Swamp Thing: That's right.

Pinball: You gonna fly the plane?

Swamp Thing: That's right.

Pinball: It's amazing the sh*t you white trash know.

Swamp Thing: That's right!

Followed by: Cyrus the Virus: Say there was a disturbance but you've got it under control. Say it, or I will kill you. Pilot: Without me you got nobody to fly the plane. Cyrus: I never think that far ahead.

Alone, or with a calm expert explaining to me what to do over headset plus some autopilot features?

~0% in the former case.

I dunno seems like a toss up for the latter. They probably have pretty good data to share on my speed and angle/alt changes, and I take directions quite well under pressure, autopilot properly helps me not crash before the landing attempt, seems we have a shot.

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I landed one in a flight Sim once, can't be that hard

I've tried this in a simulator.

It was literally the "Passenger has to land the plane and be directed by an instructor on the ground" fantasy.

It was an old BAe 146 simulator in Farnborough (which the guys running it told me was used for Krypton Factor, a TV game show in the 1990s)

I got the thing down. The landing was shit, just after the touchdown zone, with a crappy flare, but within airframe limits, and we stopped on the runway for a safe evacuation.

During final approach, the work-rate is absolutely astronomical, especially when you don't know where everything is in the cockpit. You're basically interleaving preparation the landing with preparation for takeoff, in case you need to go-around. The stress was insane.

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Every-Quit524@reddit

No Joke I say there is a 37% chance I can do it.

I play a good amount of flight sim. Know where the general controls are.

GTA online.

Ace combat.

watch air disasters documentaries daily over 200+ hours watch time.

As long as it is a clear daytime landing and not a extra huge plane.

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Al-Amander-The-Great@reddit

Ever listen to the audio from the guy that stole a jet liner. He told them “I play a lot of video games” it’s actually quite sad to hear this guy having a mental breakdown but in a calm manner.

If I could get the autopilot to work and the conditions for a landing with one would be right .... sure.

Oh, I’ll get her down… and let god sort them out. (No experience, would definitely not volunteer if on a flight that flight crew was incapacitated)

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Jimisdegimis89@reddit

Oh I sure as hell can land it, in fact I think eventually I’d have trouble NOT landing it.

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chicano32@reddit

It’s 50:50 chance you pull it off or die if you didn’t. I believe that if the runway was long enough and there wasn’t any crosswind, i can crash it enough to at least have the blackbox found in good condition.

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nice_flutin_ralphie@reddit

I reckon I could provided I can get the radio to work.

If you’ve ever watched a flying video on YouTube, you’re already pretty well equipped to figure out how to communicate with ATC. It’s a single button you need to press to speak on the currently set frequency. From there anyone that can function in a stressful situation can land one with guidance from a ground based pilot.

Or you’re fucked.

Here’s a random thought that may not even be possible. What if aircraft manufacturers built in a simulator to the actual cockpit so pilots could run through specific, non typical scenarios for weather, problems on the ground, etc. before actually attempting said landing. Could be helpful in this scenario as well.

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air-cooled@reddit

No pilot here.

Been into an actual ATP training simulator, flew it myself and was able to fly an ILS with a visual break off to another RWY.

No wind, crystal clear weather no beep or any alarms, ideal conditions. I think I could do that again.

As a former ATC worker I can tell that there are incidents and emergencies where one non flying person has no knowledge off

Hard one, no hydraulics, winds above 40kts and making a hand landing. You could see from the tower and hear on the speaker that that's a hard one. You need to be seriously good trained pilot.

Impossible one, declaring a emergency for immediately return, Pilot is unaware of the severity of the damage, thinks he can manage and finds out he can't.

Those 2 examples are real, the first I attended, the second .. So I'm sure some can fly an aircraft but don't think that if Jack Nickolson is hammering on the cockpit door with an axe that you still are in control.

Better argue who is the better driver

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CrunchythePooh@reddit

I can only land a plane once in New york City.

I drive manual. Where's the clutch?

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CrackingBall@reddit

I am 60% confident I could.

game experience
steady hands, good eyes
calm demeanor
can read the cockpit
first thing I would do after stabilizing the plane is get on the radio

I feel most people who are this good overestimate how hard it would be to actually do though. Experience matters.

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N301CF@reddit

if someone sets me up for full manual flight i can definitely put it on the gears, on a runway

it’s gonna be ugly tho

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Fandango_Jones@reddit

With radio? Probably. Without radio? Landing maybe but not sure which situation everyone is afterwards xD

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eightcell@reddit

Based on my experience with Top Gun on the NES 0% chance.

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Hermit_Bottle@reddit

To be fair, Top Gun on NES is harder than an actual plane.

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hyperskeletor@reddit

I fly a Cessna, I cannot fly a commercial jet.

I'm an aerospace engineer, it would be pretty easy as long as the emergency isn't due to damage to the airplane. Passengers might be injured and a runway excursion is probable, but by and large it would probably not be a bad outcome.

Honestly, what would be worse is the fistfight that ensues when more than one person wants to take a crack at performing the landing

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Fluid_Comb8851@reddit

Safely?

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I know the Mirage 2000c can be auto landed with no inputs from the pilot other than the throttle which gives a HUD display for exactly where to place the throttle. Just keep the little mark between two notchs and the plane automatically controls the surfaces.

Surely 50 years of progress have improved on this feature.

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Reverend-Kansas@reddit

Dunding-Krueger effect

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rocketspeed12345@reddit

Difficult. If the person is with it enough to get the radios working, and someone who is a good teacher is on the radio, they could maybe talk them through an autopilot approach to an autoland.

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Philthedrummist@reddit

To be fair, it doesn’t say what state the plane has to be in when it ‘lands’. I’m 100% certain I could do it. Whether anyone survives is a different question.

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Guardian2k@reddit

I could land it I’m sure, as I have no aviation knowledge it would likely be a fast landing at least

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Transplantdude@reddit

Anyone can land it. The question is what condition would it be in.

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Ok_Read6400@reddit

idk but once I landed a Bell 412 at a military sim guided by a real pilot, while the army colonel that invited me to try it was attempting to crash it because he was having a vertigo induced panic attack that I was unaware of

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TotalNonsense0@reddit

I'm confident that my attempt to land would be better then letting it land itself.

Maybe not much better, but at least a little bit.

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I could do it.

Do it well? Fuck no

I managed to land the A 320 in the professional simulator without the auto landing, but it was damaged after landing and it was the best case scenario without heavy cross winds or bad weather. Plus it was a sunny day. I think in any other scenario i might crash the plane while landing.

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Strong-Resort-7144@reddit

I could easily land anything at anytime

But it wouldn’t exactly be a safe landing

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Tipsticks@reddit

Most people probably wouldn't be able to operate comms to get ATC to have someone talk them through it, so i'm gonna say not a chance.

If you are able to follow directions accurately you can land a plane in an emergency situation. There are a TON of automated systems on modern planes these days.

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Grandmaster_Invoker@reddit

Can land

sinnops@reddit

If you have a great directions over the radio and you can follow directions while keeping calm, almost anyone can do it.

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adzy2k6@reddit

Would it make sense to guide the amature pilot to do an autoland? I mean, while it does require special training it should also do a better job than an untrained pilot assuming that they can get the aircraft onto the ILS in the first place.

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iceman_andre@reddit

The main problem with the autoland is if anything goes wrong you should be able to recognize and go around

That includes weather, ils signal not reliable or some aircraft fault.

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ppardee@reddit

Look, guys, it's simple... Throttle down to idle until you hit 5000 feet, then pull up until you start to stall and pop the clutch. This will pitch the nose up, then you hit the flaps, drop the landing gear and crash into the mountain.

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Embarrassed-Term-965@reddit

Was this a Nanos poll, or ProPublica?

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Puzzleheaded-Step222@reddit

I’m certain as long as it has a Falange I could land it

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e_pilot@reddit

I just landed a 737 a few minutes ago what do I win.

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Theeletter7@reddit

i’ve played enough flight simulators to set up autoland in a 737, so if it’s a 737NG, with fully functioning instruments, i could 100% land it.

jmclaugmi@reddit

First problem: Panic

Second problem: being able to take instructions

Tom Scott tried this with Mentour Pilot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaOvtL6qYpc

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Bungeesmom@reddit

My C-5,C-9, Retired airline pilot brother-in-law crashed the space shuttle simulator. So this gives me faith that since I totally rocked the 747 simulator, and the space shuttle simulator, I could land a passenger plane.

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weasel286@reddit

Define “land”. Are we talking smooth like the trained pro or more than 60% of the passengers unharmed?

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277330128@reddit

There is a chart somewhere of stats on what % of people think they could fight and win against a wild animal.

Nearly 10% think they could beat an elephant!

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Pinorckle@reddit

I wonder what Kelsey thinks

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nemesit@reddit

If you get assistance via radio you can do it otherwise probably not at least not in a way that feels somewhat normal

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rco8786@reddit

100% certain I could do it IF I had ATC communication and they could guide me. 100% I could NOT do it on my own.

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DigitalEagleDriver@reddit

In my youth, my dad was friends with one of the training managers at United out at their Stapleton facility. We got the opportunity to fly the Boeing 777 simulator when the plane was still relatively new (IIRC this was about 1999 or 2000), and I, with no formal training, and only tips from an IP, took off from DIA and landed at JFK without much problem.

Fast forward years later, over 100 hours in a C172, and about 8 hours sim time in a 737 simulator (friends in cool places), I can say I could probably do it, albeit it wouldn't be butter. But I highly doubt most who say they could, probably couldn't, especially if they don't understand landing speeds, flaps speeds, decision altitudes, and when to engage brakes/spoilers. I'm not even close to an expert, but I know a little bit, and know you don't want to be on board my heavy if I'm landing it, but you probably won't die.

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absoluteally@reddit

As a teenager I got a go at a landing in the proper simulator for a globmaster. (They had turned the movement off because that's expensive and can apparently make noobs sick)

Was set to perfect conditions with a real pilot standing behind me (and another teenager in copilot) think I did a survivable landing but it was not smooth.

98% of them probably have Dunning Kruger going for them.

That said, if you can figure out the radio and you’re flying VFR in light winds, it’s not exactly rocket science if you have a professional coach you down.

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trailhounds@reddit

Oh, I'll land it, it is about whether anybody survives is the question, and the answer is likely 0.

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Business-Ad-1779@reddit

Depending on which planes. Landing a helicopter would be worse.

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Facosa99@reddit

I have plenty of time in warthunder sim mode.

Maybe a cessna? But an airbus? I agree with the experts.

nathane37@reddit

Depends on the scenario, emergency, airport, availability of assistance from ATC, etc.

Simply put, I’d say:

Landing in visual conditions? Definitely a possibility. Landing in LIFR? Definitely not.

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jesuswantsme4asucker@reddit

With auto land capabilities and an airport with the capability to facilitate an auto land, with some instruction from the ground (ATC wouldn’t be useful, they would need a pilot that knows the airplane) and a reasonably smart person in the seat… I think a non pilot could get it on the runway using automation.

I'm a pilot. If it's a modern aircraft with modern Avionics, and someone is talking to them, and there is a lot of Runway, then yes. Most people could land an aircraft. That person would probably want to spend about 30 minutes familiarizing the new pilot with how the aircraft works.

If it is an older analog cockpit, complex, multi-engine aircraft, 100% no.

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VegasGamer75@reddit

Alone? Very low chances. With ATC on the line? Probably a lot better, but I still don't want to find out.

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Smartyan2002@reddit

This is a good remark

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DirectorFinal6376@reddit

You actually want to find the twelve year old flight simmer, as they could probably do it.

mspk7305@reddit

I landed a glider when I was 14... so in the absurdly unlikely scenario of every pilot on the crew died and there were no pilots among the passengers, I vote me over just letting the thing crash...

But I also know a lot of modern jets can land themselves. Maybe not legally but they are technically capable.

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CarpSaltyBulwark@reddit

Ask tower to help you configure autoland…?

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Music_City_Madman@reddit

Be honest, I’ve got a couple hundred hours in MS FlightSim 2020, I think I could do it, no exaggeration.

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tx_navy@reddit

I think this is such a poor statement because how are experts going to disagree that 50% of all men believing that they could land a plane?

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PresCalvinCoolidge@reddit

There’s some serious “experts” in this thread.

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BrianFantannaAction8@reddit

I flew that simulator (VMS @ NASA ARC), and did a series of emergency scenarios: landing approach divert to parallel runway, engine loss during ascent, etc. Definitely was a 50% success rate. Not great odds, but could be worse!

I also got to land the shuttle, which flew like a brick. The most fun simulation was simulating a coastguard boat attaching a tow cable to the bow of the boat during a high sea state. It was wild because a hook hung from the ceiling while I was standing on an open bow that was in place of a cockpit module.

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madding247@reddit

I've been sim flying for over 23 years.

I've flown a 152 for 2 hours also.

I'm convinced for a plane with autopilot if you can figure out how to call anyone on the radio and keep your head you'll be fine.

But there is approximately a 0% chance any rando could make it to the flight deck. You'd need something to incapacitate all the pilots and flight crew and the door would have to be open

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test-user-67@reddit

I have an aerospace engineering degree and would probably trust a random passenger over me.

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ZootTX@reddit

I'm confident I could get the plane safely....

The problem with the scenarios in which people manage to land in simulators is that once they figure out how to key up the mic they are already on the correct frequency and there is already a pilot who knows how to fly that model of aircraft speaking to them.

In reality, by the time some random person manages to get into the flight deck(assuming the flight attendants allow them to access it) the frequency set in the radio is probably already out of range. And even if it isn't and you manage to get ahold of a controller, the chance they know how to fly the airplane is slim.

Once they get ahold of a controller, the controller needs to find a pilot who knows the airplane. It's possible there is another pilot on frequency who can help and stay on station long enough to assist, but this is far from guaranteed.

I think the likely real world scenario of both pilots becoming incapacitated and some rando volunteering to fly goes like this.

Both pilots become incapacitated(in this case for some reason that doesn't affect everyone else like a depressurization)
The flight attendants only become aware that there is a problem after the aircraft has gone well past its original estimated flight time, attempt to contact the pilots and get no response.
The flight attendants spend several minutes debating what to do when they realize there are no other pilots on board (at this point, assuming the weather is good that day and the aircraft isn't carrying extra fuel for an alternate, there is likely only 20-50 minutes of fuel remaining)
For the purpose of this hypothetical scenario they decide to let some confident random passenger with no flight or even simulator experience have a go at it.
The flight attendants spend a few minutes removing one or both pilots from their seats, hopefully without tripping the autopilot off.
The rando takes the seat and spends a few minutes trying to find the transmit switch for the radio.
They finally find it but every time they attempt to talk they get no response as they are out of range of the last set frequency.
They spend several more minutes trying to figure how to use the radio, maybe with the help of the FAs but since none of them know how to use the radio or what the guard frequency is, their efforts achieve nothing.
Enough time has elapsed that one of the engines flames out. They are likely still at cruise altitude and the remaining engine can't produce enough thrust to maintain speed.
The speed decays low enough that the low speed protection is activated and the autopilot kicks off.
The aircraft is likely still trimmed well enough that it doesn't stall but is now descending with no autopilot, single engine, at high altitude with a layperson at the controls. It wouldn't take much for them to upset the aircraft enough to completely lose control of the aircraft and crash it.
Assuming they don't completely lose control and the airplane is still flying, the other engine is going to flame out shortly.
Once the other engine flames out, they are now in command of the very large glider (not a very good one) that is likely on emergency power via the RAT, or maybe the APU has auto-started if they are in a newer airliner.
I think we can all agree that the chances of a layperson dead sticking an airliner into a good outcome are slim to none.

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Former__Computer@reddit

Landing is easy.

The trick is surviving the landing

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CuddlySapphireess@reddit

Lol. Are this real stats?

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ERRR777wah@reddit

Me : Fully established for ILS III autoland Aircraft : Four Hundred Me : Fuck it Aircraft : « Auto-pilot disconnect alarm »

If it's one of the planes I've spent 1000s of hours flying in flightsim then I probably could because I would know how to use all the A/P modes, set up the FMC for an approach, navigate and so on.

You can get the plane all the way from cruise to stopped on the runway by just pressing buttons. I'd only be able to do it if the plane was fully functional though and still capable of autolanding.

I 100% wouldn't be able to land it manually (aka without the autopilot) without crashing.

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I think it depends on how you’re interpreting the question, specifically the word “can”.

- its highly unlikely that you land it freehand for big passenger planes. Small planes, possible and has happened.

As a sidenote: IIRC the scenario has never actually happened on any big passenger plane. Not even once.

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Coodog15@reddit

Not a pilot

Thecage88@reddit

So, I have a PPL, and mess around on flight sims ALOT. I definitely think I still qualify as "untrained" but probably slightly further along than average.

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glewtion@reddit

Love the picture of the dudes in the background. That’s exactly the moment where everyone agrees they could land a plane.

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batcavejanitor@reddit

I can def get the plane on the ground.

Without somebody guiding you on how to program the autopilot? Nearly impossible. Is the autopilot deferred? Nearly impossible. Is the local weather beyond the airplane capability of the aircraft? Nearly impossible.

I have some simulator experience, so, I guess that if it came down to it, I could do it better than someone with absolutely no experience. IIRC, mythbusters managed to land while being guided over the radio, so that's mainly OK. If I had no comms, I could probably put it down in a field or an airport if I can find one, but there'd almost certainly be deaths, injuries and the plane wouldn't be repairable.

Not difficult since most major carriers have auto land capability.

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The_Ashamed_Boys@reddit

Just gotta know how to activate it.

I'm a 737 pilot and if for some reason I had to land any other airliner, I'd definitely use autoland.

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Marijn_fly@reddit

As a glider pilot, to feel more comfortable, I would like to jettison all engines and fuel. Less drag and weight this way.

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laughguy220@reddit

Could they land it, sure.
Would anyone survive, maybe.
Could the airframe be flown again, not likely.

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The_Ashamed_Boys@reddit

I'm confident that I could do it.

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slykens1@reddit

NAP.

Assume aircraft stable with AP engaged to start. Figure out how to get to radio to 121.5 and then ask for help between meows. Do I have to meow, too?

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I agree 50% of people I know would land the airplane. Half of them are Airbus pilots, the other half Boeing pilots, but only 50% can land...

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clattygobshite@reddit

It's called Dunning-Kruger Effect...

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ZeDanter@reddit

I’d like to ask the experts… “how easy would it be for a trainee pilot who has never flown anything bigger than a Cessna to fly a 767 through a custom navigation point 64-90m large x 416m tall and to do this while doing a banking turn”

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aitorbk@reddit

Unlikely. I would probably crash it and have experience with single engine planes. As others have pointed out, you need to have the frequencies for the radios, know how to operate the radios, the autopilot, etc.
I can land a 737 ng on a simulator kinda, terrible idea to try me to do so IRL.

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Ustakion@reddit

I mean, we live in the age, where real airline pilot can play flight simulator with the proper procedure and then post it on youtube in which everyone who own a flight simulator can watch and follow it

So????

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PerformerPossible204@reddit

The other point of view- if you are a pilot, could you talk someone with no experience down?

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jtbis@reddit

If there was enough time a reasonably intelligent person could probably be talked through a CATIII ILS. This is assuming a flight instructor or experienced captain is available to go into the tower and talk them through it.

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moshimoshi100@reddit

Yes I believe it too.

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My_useless_alt@reddit

Just thinking aloud for myself, I'd like to think I could.

I've got about 30 hours in a motorglider and have done enough research into planes that I could probably at least get the basic handling and, with a little searching, scream "Mayday mayday" into the radio at either what it's already set to or 121.5, and with ATC help I could probably just about get one down on a large runway after a couple attempts with no fatalities. At least I'd know to ask for the checklists. I'd happily be second to anyone who's actually landed a GA plane before though

Without ATC help, very unlikely but not impossible.

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I'd imagine among the passengers there might be someone who has some IFR training, at least that is a potential, but even aircraft to aircraft is so different

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nottjott@reddit

Yours truly, Dunning Kruger

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Thund3r_91@reddit

Impossible