Request - Any examples of collapse being discussed in schools?
Posted by LearnFirst@reddit | collapse | View on Reddit | 37 comments
I just found this group recently. My interest is in the implications for the way we think about education and schooling as we enter a period of increasing complexity, chaos, and collapse. To me, this moment requires some new and difficult conversations about the purpose of school and how we best "educate" our children to prepare them for what's to come.
My experience in working with schools around the world is that these topics are addressed tangentially if at all, and there is no real coherence in how or when topics like climate, biodiversity loss, environmental toxins, etc. are discussed. There is no framing of a "metacrisis" under which the skills, literacies, and dispositions for collapse are organized.
Just wondering if anyone here knows of any such examples that I might be able to highlight in my work. Thanks in advance.
t-b0la@reddit
I had a physics professor who told us the that the maths just don't math and we are f'd in those words pretty much. They felt bad for our generation and future generations.
PlausiblyCoincident@reddit
I know you are posting this for a specific purpose, but this is a really interesting and important thought:
It's kind of been at the edge of my thinking, one can't read "A Canticle for Leibowitz" or "Foundation" and not think about how we pass on information to future generations which is part of what education is, but I've not had the question posed before: what is the purpose of an education in a society that's collapsing and what would that education consist of? I'm just now considering what that would be, but I'm interested in hearing what your thoughts are, u/LearnFirst, if you care to share?
LearnFirst@reddit (OP)
Sure. I've been working on a bit of a manifesto that I hope to publish in the next few days which orients around the idea that "An education must now center on preparing our children (and ourselves) emotionally, physically, and spiritually to navigate complexity, chaos, and collapse, and to place a deep emphasis on repairing our relationships with one another and with all living things."
It's a lot to try to get into one sentence, but... It's about the skills, literacies, and dispositions that kids will need to learn their way through the metacrisis and thrive to whatever extent is possible.
Btw, I'm not sure this happens in schools per se. In fact it may be time to separate the idea of "school" and "education." Schools are too hamstrung by traditional outcomes and narratives to be able to shift in this way. They are "educating" for a world that no longer exists.
Thoughts?
PlausiblyCoincident@reddit
I wrote a pretty decent, but still rambling reply yesterday then posted it as Reddit broke.
I'll try to be more succinct this time as I've had more time to think about it.
I like the idea of there being a distinct difference between schooling and education. For mysel,f if I had to define the terms, I'd say that education is the acquisition and experience of knowledge and skill, whereas schooling is education minus experience. As a metaphor, schooling is a photo from the summit of a mountain, where education is climbing the mountain and standing on the summit where the photo was taken.
Your definition of what an education should be is far more holistic than I think I would personally define it, but I think it encompasses the fullness of what society thinks of education. An education has always served multiple purposes:
(Continued below)
PlausiblyCoincident@reddit
(Continued from above)
I think your definition of “An education must now center on preparing our children (and ourselves) emotionally, physically, and spiritually to navigate complexity, chaos, and collapse, and to place a deep emphasis on repairing our relationships with one another and with all living things.” I think this hits all five of those points of what an education should do.
I have some thoughts on why I think that we in our modern society are moving away from a purely knowledge-based “schooling” to people openly advocating for more of an applicable “education”, but that’s a lot longer and I don’t think hits at the concept you are bring up in your original post, which is, what does this transition look like? What are the specifics of what we should reform a general education to focus on and how do we approach it? And to that I would have to pull from some of my previous thoughts (and comments which are floating around here somewhere) where I see society and the various organizations, institutions, and even individuals as a species in the broader ecosystem. I think the species that is our current education system is evolving. And if a civilization collapse scenario is analogous to an ecosystem collapse, what survives and continues in that situation is predominantly r-selected species, the ones that propagate quickly and are less specialized.
Currently, we as a society invest a lot of time and energy into the education of our population which leads to a wide variety of niche professions, we are essentially K-specialists. But when those systems are thrown into chaos, it’s going to be the generalists that can adjust more quickly to the changing situation. Some K-specialist professions are likely to still be in high demand, but many of them won't be as the systems that require them fall apart. Knowing a little bit of a lot of subjects might be the difference between success and failure in a future social ecosystem that finds itself in disarray. So I think what any "formal" education will look like in a community will likely be a shallow education on a broad number of topics that are directly applicable to the daily life of that community. What that looks like is likely to be decentralized and more determined by the evolving needs of the community generally and the family unit specifically rather than something that is imposed from an external organization through means of some sort of legal enforcement mechanism.
That in a nutshell, is my thoughts. Whenever you post this bit of a manifesto, I’d be interested in reading it.
Local-Ad-8944@reddit
12 years ago when I was in highschool there was alot of talk about climate change. I with a few collegues even made a smaller thesis with the help of our proffesors anr even got a few minutes of air time on television. And not just us, many highschool kids from different schools were on ot. And that was 12 years ago. Now it just seems like everyone, children included gave up
IraJAllen@reddit
I don't know of instances in K-12 yet. I'm scheduled to teach a grad course next fall on the polycrisis here at Northern Arizona University, loosely following the contours of my recent book and titled the same way: Panic Now? Tools for Humanizing. I know of at least a few people teaching both grad and undergrad courses dealing with polycrisis/collapse, using my book among many others.
For thoughts on collapse-awareness in higher ed in general, you should check out Ahmed Afzaal's lovely book Teaching at Twilight. I also wouldn't be surprised if some K-12 folks have taken up his work.
LearnFirst@reddit (OP)
Thanks for the recs...hadn't seen Afzaal's book, but it resonates with something I'm working on at the K-12 level, so thanks.
IraJAllen@reddit
Great to hear. Will look forward to hearing more about what you're doing in K-12 as that unfolds. A lot of our MA students are high school teachers, and I've just this semester started asking them to think about teaching writing as critical care work in an era of staggered collapse, so I'm very interested in what you're working through!
unbreakablekango@reddit
My kids have been watching "Ada Twist, Scientist" and the other day they have a future climate apocalypse scenario that they walked the kids through. It showed the eventual dusty hellscape their beloved park would become if everyone continues with BAU. They ended the episode on a hopeful note but it was pretty bleak for a show for 5 year-olds. That being said, I do recommend the show.
LearnFirst@reddit (OP)
Thanks...watching it now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGOt-BPOpWw
unbreakablekango@reddit
Thoughts?
Ok_Impression5805@reddit
The best way to prepare kids for collapse is to bring back shop classes, survival classes, and practical skills. More mechanics, farmers, and welders, less accountants.
TalesOfFan@reddit
As an English teacher, I occasionally sprinkle mentions of climate change into our reading and writing assignments. I also try to evangelize for mitigation and adaptation, mostly non-controversial stuff like cycling and public transport.
At my old school, I had a student interview me about my interest in the climate crisis (I planned our research paper around identifying some sort of global problem and arguing for a solution). Part of the interview ended up in our yearbook with me expressing concern about the future and talking about how I try to bike and reducing my consumption as a cope.
I don't get the impression that most kids or teachers are aware of how bad things are.
Vipper_of_Vip99@reddit
The public school system exists to reinforce the business-as-usual narrative which continues to be perpetual economic growth. The growth is paid for by externalizing the true cost of energy use and resource extraction. Yes, the school system will acknowledge the problem, but frame it as “just another problem facing humanity that we will simply overcome by ingenuity and innovation” (hopium). Any new “curriculum” that runs counter to that narrative will be face too much social resistance and will fail. The social resistance is coming from more than just select bad actors or climate deniers. It’s engrained in the entirety of the human enterprise, on all sides of the political spectrum. People don’t want their personal quality of life degraded, and will recoil against that (just due to basic incentive structures) before they accept that we need to use less energy and resources. The (true) “story” of the metacrisis cannot compete with the (false) story of infinite economic growth and human exceptionalism.
We need to start with a Sapiens 101 style curriculum, acknowledging Sapiens place in the ecosystem as animals, and go from there. This won’t happen either, the power of human exceptionalism is too strong.
Pineappl3z@reddit
I know of the; Reality 101 course, taught by Nate Hagens at the University of Minnesota.
LearnFirst@reddit (OP)
Yeah...and obviously, if anyone out there isn't listenting to Hagens'podcast, you should. https://podcasts.apple.com/il/podcast/the-great-simplification-with-nate-hagens/id1604218333
Vipper_of_Vip99@reddit
Second that.
jandzero@reddit
I read "Mommy, Why Did America Collapse?" to my young son. Now, instead of college, I'm saving up for his therapy.
https://www.amazon.com/Mommy-Why-Did-America-Collapse-ebook/dp/B0BTLFKTST
I recently completed a graduate degree in Environment and Sustainability with a concentration in behavior, education, and communication at the University of Michigan. The course offerings varied, but the content in my program ranged from 'why we're fucked' to 'how badly we're fucked'. One professor ended each class with a warning to plant a garden now if we wanted a reliable food source.
But across the campus, in the newest and most expensive building, the business majors are eagerly learning how to profit off environmental collapse and fossil fuel extraction by following the path of the school's endowment.
LearnFirst@reddit (OP)
Wow. How did that go? ;0)
I need to learn how to garden and shoot game, i think...
furor__poeticus@reddit
The closest my high school curriculum came to addressing collapse was in our English literature courses. Parable of the Sower by Octavia Butler was eerily prescient, right down to the authoritarian leader who had "Make America Great Again" as his slogan... This would have been around 2011 when we covered it.
In college, I had a professor who offered extra credit for an essay about that year's IPCC report. My environmental, anthropology, biology, and geology classes addressed things pertaining to the collapse of our ecosystems and/or our civilization, but never explicitly laid out the full reality of climate catastrophe or what it would actually look like in the real world.
LearnFirst@reddit (OP)
Parable of the Sower is an amazing book. Won't be shocked if it starts getting banned.
Geologistjoe@reddit
The school I work at has climate-change related posters made by the kids saying stuff like ANTARTICA IS MELTING, and SEVERE FLOODING.
The kids solutions? Stop polluting, stop melting and give a few hugs. Its so cute. They are so optimistic. I don't have the heart to tell them we're doomed. I don't want to scare 7 and 8 year olds lol.
darkingz@reddit
That was exactly what I was told…. 30 years ago. And if anything we have people who think it’s all a farce because it felt 10 deg lower in a single day.
IsFreeSpeechReal@reddit
I mean the american school system doesn't teach kids to do their taxes... In what world would foresight be applied to education?
Oceaninmytea@reddit
In kinder to first grade I haven’t really seen large mentions of climate change yet, but they do get indirect mentions of “we have to look after the earth”.
The most surprising place I’m seeing it is actually in picture books. We’ve read three or four over the last few months where a “colorful diverse alive society” gets reduced to “dead grey smog”. Also read one yesterday which said effectively “the earth is warming but don’t worry government and scientists are doing their best”. The first graders we interact with are smart enough I’m sure they will ask in depth questions by third grade.
I did a parent activity last year with them where we talked about how clean energy is better, last week I tried one which talked about the practical application of books so we read a book and did a water filtration experiment (subtle mini collapse prep hehe) but they really enjoyed it. I think there’s a lot of ways to prepare them without it being scary.
rmannyconda78@reddit
My ap environmental class was very heavy on the subject of climate change and micro plastics, I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if my former teacher was active here.
OrangeCrack@reddit
University level environmental courses might touch on these topics. But no way any grades K-12 will touch this and if teachers do they risk losing their jobs. More than 50% of the population just voted for Trump, do you really think the masses outside of Reddit are concerned about collapse?
I think people get the impression that because this is widely recognized on Reddit it must be like that everywhere in real life. But this is definitely NOT the case. Check out the Kimmel segment he did after the election asking people if they were planning to vote. So many people said yes - AFTER the election. We are living in idiocracy out there in the real world right now my friend.
LearnFirst@reddit (OP)
No doubt about the risk, esp with local school boards being filled up with deniers and book banners...
BTRCguy@reddit
At least for talking about US schools, how well can this subject be presented at a 4th grade reading level?
(sadly, not /s)
LearnFirst@reddit (OP)
Yeah...it has to be age appropriate, no doubt. But even then, if we were thinking about school through the lens of collapse, we could be planting seeds for the required dispositions and skills that will be required to deal with it as best we can. That takes some backwards designing that has to start with facing reality.
SaxManSteve@reddit
I wrote up this post a while back entitled "The state of our education system is much worse than you think", you might find it interesting.
Otherwise, Zak Stein is my go-to when it comes to showing how education and collapse are intertwined within the meta-crisis.
This podcast episode is a good intro to his ideas https://www.thegreatsimplification.com/episode/122-zak-stein
Here's his essay "Education is the Metacrisis"
LearnFirst@reddit (OP)
Stein's book Education in a Time Between Worlds is one of my go tos. As is Nate Hagens podcast. Most educators have never heard of either of them...
TuneGlum7903@reddit
Thanks, interested in reading these.
NSFW_hunter6969@reddit
My kids who are in grade 4-5 told me their teachers have talked about the planet hurting and cycles for human civilization, how ours will fall one day. Climate change is really bad and they may not survive as adults.
Granted this is not exactly in the curriculum and likely just a teacher who is aware wtf is going on. Nice to see it being discussed though. I have no fucking idea how teens are managing these days. Being a teenager sucks regardless, add in the end of the world. My kids have a few years before that, I have a feeling as things get worse I'll just keep them home and we can ride out a peaceful existence.
LearnFirst@reddit (OP)
Thanks...it's already becoming a crisis in terms of youth mental health in general.
rematar@reddit
Schools teach very little relevant material.
If they discussed collapse related topics, many of the kids would be stressed because most of the adults in their life wouldn't listen. I know this feeling.
I won't discuss collapse with my young adult children until they bring it up. I hope they travel and enjoy what they can while I work at building a collapse resilient retreat for us.