Windows 365 Link is a $349 mini PC that streams Windows from the cloud

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caedin8@reddit

When one of the fastest computers money can buy is just $150 more for an Apple Mac mini with M4, this is just a joke.

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SiteWhole7575@reddit

And no adverts when you open start or settings.

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CarretillaRoja@reddit

As a long time Mac user, I can’t understand how an operating system is showing ads.

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And, you want to use your PC? F U, you need a 20 minute update before you are allowed to do anything… Admittedly updates are needed but how about not completely blocking me out of my computer for 20 minutes.

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Naud1993@reddit

Wait, it's only $500? I thought it was $600.

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Sipas@reddit

$500 if you have an .edu email.

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MobiusOne_ISAF@reddit

You're not really talking about the same kind of customer at that point. This is pretty obviously geared for enterprise clients trying to set up a huge number of workstations with easy centralized management.

Being powerful and working offline is pretty inconsequential when the intended use case is for workers who basically just need a browser, internet access, and Office/Teams.

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Business-Sea@reddit

I think you forgot there’s an entire subscription fee of $20 a month. The cost benefit goes down immediately after a year per employee.

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SirBrownHammer@reddit

$20/month per user is peanuts compared to what businesses are already paying Microsoft.

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CalmSpinach2140@reddit

My $100 mini-PC does the same thing

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MobiusOne_ISAF@reddit

Yes, but if you're an IT department, the workload for setting up and managing for the thin-client can be a lot lower.

$349 for this is too expensive, but I kind of assume Microsoft isn't specifically looking at this thin client to be a smash hit. Like a lot of the Surface lineup, I figure it's as signal to OEMs on where Microsoft is looking rather than a serious contender in the market.

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awesomegamer919@reddit

Thin clients have some pretty big downsides of their own, especially for companies with multiple sites (or MSPs serving various clients) - notably many remote tools don’t work on them (directly), so if they get disconnected from whatever server infrastructure they use it can be more difficult to diagnose.

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RainStormLou@reddit

It's 349 for one. The guy on the phone can bring that to about 189 each for 1000 of them often enough.

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derpybacon@reddit

Yes, because what I really want my employees working on are $100 mini PC’s that definitely don’t come pre-loaded with spyware.

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Vitosi4ek@reddit

Every single commercially distributed OS is spyware. You're just choosing which jurisdiction your data goes to. And honestly I'd prefer Chinese spyware over US spyware, simply because China can't get to me on US soil.

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i5-2520M@reddit

I actually hate this opinion in particular, since this puts a regular OS in the same category as software that: 24/7 uploads your mic and camera feed, logs your screen, logs your keypresses and steals session tokens from everything. Windows, ChromeOS, Android take your pick, none of the do this.

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derpybacon@reddit

Because y’know, businesses are concerned about the United States coming to arrest them for their excel spreadsheets they keep on evil, evil Micro$oft Windows and not random hackers stealing their credentials from the $100 aliexpress shitbox with compromised firmware.

Like, what are you even talking about? You don’t avoid buying random cheap shit to avoid state level actors, you avoid it because you want actual support and some assurance that the company you’re buying from is legitimate. Is Microsoft going to fuck me over? Probably not. Is AceMagic going to accidentally ship me a key logger? Possibly.

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xNaquada@reddit

about the United States coming to arrest them

Look at the US department nominations lately and tell me you feel absolutely secure. TV hosts and folks under investigation leading entire departments and directing government.

As a non-american, it looks very much like insanity has taken the reigns of power.

The point I'm making is that US government stability and rule of law and due process no longer a given. I'm not saying it will happen, but I sure as shit wouldn't feel 100% comfortable living in the US these days.

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derpybacon@reddit

If the US government doesn’t like you, you’re just fucked, your OS or hardware choices don’t matter. Super secure encryption on open source software and 100% reliable hardware won’t save you from being beat by a lead pipe.

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xNaquada@reddit

The difference in who is at the helm determining if you're "liked" or not.

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derpybacon@reddit

What on earth does that have to do with anything? The US government is not going to try and steal your bank credentials with a keylogger installed on a cheap mini pc you bought to use as a thin client, they can just tell the bank that your money doesn’t belong to you anymore.

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Hi_Kate@reddit

Your $100 mini-PC guarantees no sensitive customer data is stored on it? Impressive.

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CalmSpinach2140@reddit

Yes it runs a cloud VM

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flyingbanana1234@reddit

how can i get a pc for 100 ?

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WonderfulExtension58@reddit

Not to mention switching OS from Mac to Windows. For most it's a no go right out of the gate.

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DuckCleaning@reddit

Mac Mini is the fastest computer money can buy?

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caedin8@reddit

14900k or 9950X are probably the fastest regular desktop PC chips and they are pretty much tied for most benchmarks, especially single core.

The $499 Mac mini comes with M4 which is 21% faster in single thread Cinebench2024 than a 14900k

It is 13% faster in single thread geekbench 6 than a 14900k

It’s slower in pure parallel processing workloads, usually about twice as slow as the big dog chips above, but with its 4 P cores and 6 e-cores, it can run lots of things at the same time blazing fast, faster than those big chips, and it’s still pretty great at fully parallel work, if not class leading.

The point though is that for 99% of the average people computing the M4 Mac mini for $499 will actually be faster than a giant water cooled PC with an overlocked 14900K. It’s absolutely insane. Apple has done something special here.

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Firewire_1394@reddit

It's the same song and dance. The M4 will only ever be in an apple device, and that right there will be why it will never reign supreme.

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only_r3ad_the_titl3@reddit

"14900k or 9950X are probably the fastest regular desktop PC chips and they are pretty much tied for most benchmarks, "

" usually about twice as slow as the big dog chips above,"

which one is it now?

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calcium@reddit

Something else you didn’t point out was that the entire machine absolutely sips power. I don’t think it goes above 50W for total computer power at full bore, yet the 14900k will do that at idle.

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WonderfulExtension58@reddit

I can't run my Windows software or games yet on Mac OS yet and Asahi Linux is a long ways to go, so I can't even consider an M4 Mac's for now.

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auradragon1@reddit

You probably can. Parallels and Crossover are more likely to cover the Windows app you use than not.

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voyet@reddit

Just saw an article saying that Windows 365 Link is like a Microsoft Mac Mini. They’re nothing alike! Mac Mini is a real and powerful computer, this thing is a joke.

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shoneysbreakfast@reddit

And you can also still stream Windows to it, or even run Windows apps with Parallels, if you wanted to. And it wouldn't be as locked down as this thing.

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rotoddlescorr@reddit

And it wouldn't be as locked down as this thing.

That's actually a huge plus for some companies.

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maZZtar@reddit

It's a commercial product, you won't buy in on the customer market. Just saying

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intrasight@reddit

Or $300 less ($50) for an RPi that can do the same thing

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ironwaffle452@reddit

It has intel proc and 8gb ram, few month ago some people was saying 8gb is enough for pc/notebook and they werent cloud based... So for $350 seems like a good deal. Any way without internet today any pc is useless so... seems like next step in evolution, the cloud pc.

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Gotxi@reddit

No one wants an overpriced PC that also needs a subscription service and if you stop paying it becomes useless.

Just buy a miniPC for much less than that and never pay more.

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soggybiscuit93@reddit

We'd probably buy maybe 200 or so of these. We already have a few branches working off AVDs.

Plenty of us in Enteprise see the value in this.

This isn't for you. Wasnt intended for home users

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Gotxi@reddit

I still don't see the value on enterprises. This is just an expensive VDI solution.

You can use AWS workspaces and just pay as you consume without commmitments and use any thin client that you want (even a raspberry pi if you like)

Or you can Citrix Virtual Desktops, or VMware Horizon or whatever other enterprise VDI solution which is already much mature and cheaper than this.

I would not buy this neither for home users or enterprise, this solution is already out of the market.

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soggybiscuit93@reddit

Is it that expensive? It's a lot cheaper than Dell's alternative.

And the vendor lock-in doesn't matter to us. We're firmly entrenched within the Azure/M365 ecosystem.

This seems like a cheap way to deploy AVDs. We would never deploy Rasberry Pi. This client can be dropped shipped straight from our distributor, connect to a monitor, mouse, keyboard, ethernet, and the user can self provision through autopilot.

A $300 Capex savings on a raspberry pi just simply wouldn't even be a consideration. And AVD is fairly mature. We've been using it for a while now. And AVD helps with the fact that servers, VDI, data, user identity, etc. Are all contained within a single tenant.

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Apart_Zebra_655@reddit

They're touting this as if it's some kind of new technology... This is a thin client (been around for over 20 years in Windows environments) that connects automatically to Windows 365 (which is pretty much an azure hosted VDI) and you have to pay almost $400 for the hardware + the 365 subscription. I could build/buy this hardware for under $150 (if I'm over building it, it might be as high as $150), and I control it's parameters for connections. This is absolute crap. I see this dying as quickly as it launches.

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soggybiscuit93@reddit

How is you building 1000 of these cheaper than ordering bulk from your supplier (for cheaper per unit prices than the MSRP???)

Building your own thing clients is absolutely not scalable

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Apart_Zebra_655@reddit

You're right, building several units across an enterprise isn't scalable. But buying (also in my original post as an option) through an OEM or even in the form of a multi display mini pc is very scalable. And in both of those cases it would cost under 150/unit (especially if I'm buying in this level of bulk), and I control what servers it's connecting to and how. For most IT professionals, this product doesn't make sense at any level.

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soggybiscuit93@reddit

It makes sense in the right environment. We have some subsidiaries where we can't have any CUI touch the PCs so they work exclusively from AVDs

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MobiusOne_ISAF@reddit

I'd assume Microsoft is only making this as a reference device and is hoping OEMs make their own cheaper entries. Thin-clients can actually be a great solution for certain kinds of setups, but $349 is entirely too much for a fleet purchase.

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cosine83@reddit

Most enterprise thin clients are in this same price range or more depending on RAM and CPU. That's not figuring in bulk and VAR discounts.

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Apart_Zebra_655@reddit

OEMs already make these devices and have been for years, they are called thin clients. They just don't point directly to azure hosted VDI specifically, they allow the organization to point the client to whatever VDI/RDP solution the organization has set up (which can include any azure hosted remote client solutions that organization is already paying for).

This is very specific to Microsoft, and I don't think they are looking to template a solution for OEMs. This appears as though they are looking to embark on a journey where all end-user computing is handled through thier own proprietary hardware solutions that require Microsoft subscriptions to work. At first it will be a simple solution for enterprises to handle their regular users, then it will expand to the consumer market, where they can phase out individual PCs, and so on.

If the tech community is paying attention (which we do), we won't buy into this madness, especially at such exorbitant pricing.

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MobiusOne_ISAF@reddit

I'm sure some people at Microsoft are pushing for it simply because of the "business opportunity," but I don't see any world where this would ever catch on for the consumer market. I'd hope that Microsoft has enough people grounded in reality to see that's the case, but who knows.

Either way, I don't really see any risk of this catching on for consumers anyway. Streaming games or a work environment is one thing. Streaming your whole PC has nearly 0 advantages as a consumer, and I can't see any case where consumers would even accidentally end up buying this.

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vikarti_anatra@reddit

> Streaming your whole PC has nearly 0 advantages as a consumer

It does in at least some cases. Much easier backups (snapshots), ability to access on road,etc. Except that network delays and servers where computer really works (and trust in provider if in cloud) becomes superimportant.

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Apart_Zebra_655@reddit

Broadcom thought they would get away with it, when they took over VMware. They are backtracking just enough to regain thier market after their fallout, they will push subscriptions full force again, maybe at a slower pace, but just watch. Adobe and Autodesk still believe in thier model of subscription only, and they double down each generation forward, making it just about impossible to buy their software outright anymore. Apple has an almost cult-like following and they keep pushing consumers into proprietary hell, and yet, they still make more money year over year. Don't think for a second Microsoft isn't pushing towards a subscription-only model across all of their products, because they most certainly are. They already have just about with the office suite, Daas ("Cloud PC") is a product that they push hard in the commercial market, and it has made its way to the consumer market already.

The knowledgeable consumer agrees with your sentiment, but the majority of consumers aren't knowledgeable. People will buy it, if the perception is that it makes their life easier.

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nikolapc@reddit

Well that's the stated price and a fleet gets a discount? Plus it probably has features that businesses like, like the instant sign on via fingerprint, low power consumption, and kickbacks for the purchaser.

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vikarti_anatra@reddit

I recently wanted to get some kind of windows-based thin client which could connect 3 monitors and able to use RDP. I wasn't able to. Now I use one of my computers as specialized server AND thin client. I do almost everything in VMs on my home server.

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netrum@reddit

Ahh the return of thin clients. They have and will always suck. Internet goes down, you can’t work anymore. This is might work for non-critical jobs. But I am not convinced this is a good idea.

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gumol@reddit

Internet goes down, you can’t work anymore.

That's not uncommon even with fat clients. Internet is kinda important for work, especially remote work.

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deadgirlrevvy@reddit

I can do my entire job without internet for days and days. I do computer graphics and large format printing. Internet is a luxury, not a requirement.

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JoeDawson8@reddit

I’m a data analyst. I can’t work if I can’t access the database

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Strazdas1@reddit

Im a data analyst, i cant work if i dont copy the database to local machine for fast access.

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soggybiscuit93@reddit

Copy the database to local machine???

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deadgirlrevvy@reddit

Yes. I've had companies Fedex me physical media for database analysis. Remote access is ok in a pinch, but local is ALWAYS faster by orders of magnitude. Even a gigabit internet connection isn't as fast as an NVMe in the computer you are using to do the task (assuming the computer is worth a shit, which this thin client is not).

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deadgirlrevvy@reddit

That's literally what I did back when I did your job. I'd copy the data to my local machine and run custom code I wrote to pick through the data to find accounts payable anomalies en masse, then use the results to issue chargebacks to vendors who had overcharged my clients. Just sayin'. 🤷‍♀️. Took a fraction of the time that way. VERY efficient use of time.

As for remote work...well, go to the fucking office like a normal person, ya lazy fucks.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gxGBBhSm5Co

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deadgirlrevvy@reddit

100% this. Local processing on good silicon is better for analysis than remote. Every single time.

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gumol@reddit

Cool, but that doesn’t apply to every job.

But good for you.

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MysteriousBeef6395@reddit

company i used to do IT work for had pretty much 95% of employees working through a thin client, since pretty much all work needed a connection to the company data server anyways. thin clients may not make sense for home users but this product is pretty much fully in line with the demand of enterprise customers

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Strazdas1@reddit

Company i work for has been pushing for people to work on the networked drives and the cloud service they use. Its much worse experience. Almost noone wants to do it. Just yesterday we had centralized issue with power outage at the server. Anyone working on the cloud service couldnt work that day.

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MysteriousBeef6395@reddit

you guys have really shitty servers then, we had an outage maybe once every two months

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soggybiscuit93@reddit

Even once every 2 months is too frequent.

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MysteriousBeef6395@reddit

dont know what kinda world you live in where every server connected workflow you have has a 100% uptime but i worked on earth at a company with humans

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soggybiscuit93@reddit

We don't have 100% uptime, but once every 2 months for unexpected outages seems quite high.

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MysteriousBeef6395@reddit

ive done support for small bank branches that had weekly to daily outages, every two months or so is nothing

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JoeDawson8@reddit

If my internet goes down I can’t work.

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netrum@reddit

If my internet goes down i use the inbuilt simcard reader and connection via mobile network.
If both are down, well then we have bigger problems i would say :D

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dagmx@reddit

No internet would stop work regardless of the system for the kind of worker this is targeted at (cloud office use, web apps etc)

The bigger issue is poor internet scenarios instead where it can’t sustain the connectivity required

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blaktronium@reddit

That's true for a lot of workloads regardless of where the OS lives.

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EitherGiraffe@reddit

So 350-400€ for the thin client and 66,70€ per month for a 4c/16GB/128GB Windows 365 instance + whatever your cost for additional cloud storage for network drives is.

That's your setup for an average office worker, the more premium configurations with 8/16c and more RAM quickly ramp up from 124,80€ to 318,40€.

This doesn't seem very cost effective, considering that MS isn't offering higher end configurations, especially none with decent GPU performance.

This and the necessity of notebooks for some roles means that you will need to run an IT department anyway. If I'm already paying IT to deploy and manage some machines, adding more machines the traditional way seems much more cost effective.

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Strazdas1@reddit

If i had to do my work on a 4C/16GB client id die of old age before i finish.

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OldMall3667@reddit

The only thing the client does is steam an azure pc. Those can be configured with up to 128gb of memory and 32 cores. We use them as remote dev machines so our laptops can be relative light weight . Performance has been fantastic so far.

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nikolapc@reddit

This is for enterprise, so they may cut a few IT employees and think its a good deal. Also factor in power costs, wfh stuff, security etc.

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EitherGiraffe@reddit

Obviously, but I don't see how the cost makes any sense.

If you could replace your entire IT department, maybe, but if you're still required to run half an IT department (arguably the more complicated half) for your other machines, it becomes unattractive.

They are already doing the hard part of developing a security concept, doing patch management, imaging, security fixes etc.

Deploying fewer machines doesn't do much. Sure, you can get rid of some of the lower-tier admins who mostly do deployment, but one of them can deploy hundreds of machines.

Looking at the monthly cost of Windows 365, paying someone to deploy hardware seems significantly cheaper.

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soggybiscuit93@reddit

It doesn't make sense in every scenario.

But one cost saving would come from no need to have a support agreement because it's just a cheap thin client. If the PC dies, replace it and have the user up and running in minutes because their "PC" is an AVD.

Or what if your server environment is mostly in a Azure? What if you have large amounts of data that would saturate your bandwidth? Whats the cost of a UTM that can handle gigabit with inspection? AVD allows the desktop experience to be local to the data storage. Your only network traffic is display and input.

What if you have compliance concerns and don't want CUI to ever touch endpoints?

What if your BYOD and just issue employees and AVD, and want a few thin clients just in case an employee is in-between devices?

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OldMall3667@reddit

If you don’t get why I could be cost effective your just not the target market. Thin clients are a big market and always have been. It’s just a market that is focused on big enterprise customers. Where monthly cost for licensing and hardware are usually dwarfed by support and maintenance cost.

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nikolapc@reddit

Idiot proof also seem to be a big selling point. And if you think enterprises don't get a bulk discount and the procurement manager some nice kickbacks, I got a bridge to sell you.

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tinix0@reddit

I can see this for shared workspaces. We already have desktops + WFH laptops that are used to RDP into the desktops for Devs. In theory, moving that desktop to cloud could be feasible. And for shared workspaces you could equip the desks with these, so people dont have to lug laptops to the office. As for pricing, workstations can get pretty expensive and if you can shut down the 365 VM while its not in use then it could be competitive ish(I dont remember the pricing model right now).

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phroztbyt3@reddit

Reading the comments it's very obvious who works in IT and who thinks this is magically for the consumer.

This device is actually a game changer for businesses that essentially run intune and vms all day in terms of being able to ditch dell or other manufacturers and get rid of their thin client management. They will actually be able to cut costs by not needing to buy Dell thin client management licenses. And it will obviously be easier to manage very large numbers of devices.

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soggybiscuit93@reddit

Exactly. We have 2 offices running off AVDs. How simple would it be to drop ship these to them with Autopilot ready to go.

Here, plug this in and sign in with your work credentials. Easy and simple. Wouldnt even bother with a hardware agreement either - just have 1 or 2 spares at each office.

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soggybiscuit93@reddit

Exactly. We have 2 offices running off AVDs. How simple would it be to drop ship these to them with Autopilot ready to go.

Here, plug this in and sign in with your work credentials. Easy and simple. Wouldnt even bother with a hardware agreement either - just have 1 or 2 spares at each office.

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soggybiscuit93@reddit

A lot of people commenting here are just simply not familiar with the Enterprise IT landscape.

We have a few subsidiaries / joint ventures that, for compliance reasons, we need most employees' applications and work to be done within an AVD. These thin clients are a fraction of the price of the standard PCs they're issued now.

If you don't see the purpose for this device, it's simply not for you. AVD's provide portability and security because the data never touches the device. AVD's are simple to create and destroy, easy to centrally manage, and can be scaled to match the performance needed by an end user.

I'm not concerned about a user losing data because they put the data in a folder that doesn't sync to OneDrive. I'm not concerned if they lost their device. I can easily meet any compliance requirements necessary.

Thin clients aren't replacing local compute. But they have their place.

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Geek_King@reddit

I don't care for that one bit.

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auradragon1@reddit

Windows 365 Link is for organizations that have desk-based workers and are using, or are considering using, Windows 365. Windows 365 Link is well suited for enabling secure productivity in shared workspaces such as hot desks, call centers, reception desks, labs, and more.

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-Foli@reddit

Feels a little tone deaf though right? How many organizations need their employees to be partially or totally remote?

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zacker150@reddit

You're not the head of IT at a Fortune 500 company, so you're not expected to care.

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gumol@reddit

Windows 365 Link is secure by design

As opposed to? Regular Windows?

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auradragon1@reddit

All data is in the cloud. The OS is fully managed, meaning security updates, configuration are automated.

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rotoddlescorr@reddit

Windows 365 Link is the name of the hardware device, not the OS.

This is just MS with their strange naming, where similar names can mean different things.

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Strazdas1@reddit

365 is the brand they use for cloud services. Officer 365 for an example. And yes, it works as terribly as youd expect. If they decide to move our local office clients to 365 ill seriuosly consider quitting.

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INITMalcanis@reddit

But for $349 you can get a pretty capable miniPC that runs Windows 11 locally

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Worried-Evening6414@reddit

can this device be used to play windows video games yes or no?

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Gotxi@reddit

No

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kamran1380@reddit

They missed the chance to price it 365$

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SnooMarzipans2945@reddit

But will Windows 365 Link one day also be for private individuals? In short, the future seems to be heading in this direction. Except for gaming PC

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TDYDave2@reddit

We have now come full circle, from the dumb terminal and big iron days, to the personal computer and now back to the dumb terminal and big iron.

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Worried-Evening6414@reddit

Can this device play windows video games?

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Kageru@reddit

They reinvented the xterm! Shame it will be a closed protocol, they were sort of elegant.

The cost of the unit does need to include the license costs though. The cloud model is to get you on a subscription with usage charges and those can add up.

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ScTiger1311@reddit

Steam deck is a functional mini PC that doesn't bullshit you with streaming.

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FieldOfFox@reddit

This isn't for "us".

It's for IT third parties who spend all day on a virtual desktop.

Terrible pricing though, how can a bargain basement Arm CPU with an HDMI port possibly cost that much.

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KiwiBird97@reddit

I thought this was going to be the Windows Dev Kit (WDK) 2025 after Qualcomm discontinued the Snapdragon Dev Kit last month.

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mxforest@reddit

A thin client has no reason to cost this much.

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dagmx@reddit

Thin clients often cost way more than this. If you ever looked at the high end teradici box costs they were more than a M4 Mac Mini alone.

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ccosby@reddit

Yep, these are on the cheaper side for zero and thin clients. Setup video makes it look really simple and you don't need other software to manage them if you already are setup in intune and if you are dealing with windows 365 vm's you prob are.

We have a few contractors that use 365 vms and I'm interesting in this because I'm hoping a laptop style version is coming. Could end up being a good option vs sending a more expensive laptop.

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gumol@reddit

Yeah my laptop is basically a 2-3k USD thin client for my workstation and supercomputers

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pc0999@reddit

Useless and for what it does it is a ridiculous price.

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somewhat_moist@reddit

Meanwhile, Microsoft Flight Sim 2024 launch from the cloud is going well 😂 https://www.reddit.com/r/MicrosoftFlightSim/comments/1gv0m1u/msfs_2024_launch_megathread_share_your_first/

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thejuliet@reddit

This thing is a sad joke especially when compared to the latest Mac mini. Microsoft and Google need to get their shit together with hardware.

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maZZtar@reddit

That's a thin client not meant to be bought by customers. Apparently, they usually are like that and cost that much

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maZZtar@reddit

I wouldn't be surprised if this was repainted Xbox Keystone

The OS is literally the only thing that is interesting about this device because it's the first time we see a super tiny and modernised variation of Windows which is being developed as a ChromeOS competitor. The caveat is that this is even more stripped-down version of this OS lmao. Let's hope it'll get an update this the "full" version

I get that it has encryption, streaming enhancements and some other stuff. I also get that it's something sold to the enterprises. But do enterprises really use Windows 365 and will want to pay for another Microsoft's wacky box?

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