The 2025 Porsche 911 Carrera T Saves the Manuals.

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Juicyjackson@reddit (OP)

Seems like these Porsche models are the Pinnacle of manual+ ICE engines we will ever see in our life times as manual transmissions and ICE engines are quickly losing ground on pure EV's.

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Educational_Age_1333@reddit

"these Porsche models are the Pinnacle of manual+ ICE engines we will ever see in our life times"

This is pretty heavy handed statement.

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WindyCity_X@reddit

Literally, I will never understand this, lol

There are faster manual transmission cars. There are quicker shifting manual transmissions There are cheaper manual transmission cars. There are better performing manual transmission cars.

Porsche fans are just locked into Porsche. Is what it is.

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V12MPG@reddit

Imagine cars like the F50 and Carrera GT exist and somebody is praising a turbocharged base Carrera as the greatest manual ICE car to ever exist. The 911 glazing is so out of control it’s wild.

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skerpz@reddit

You could buy a fleet of 911 T’s for the price of a CGT or F50. Those cars might as well not exist for 99.99% of enthusiasts.

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V12MPG@reddit

If we redefine “pinnacle” as “pretty good while being cheaper than the things that are better” the term loses all meaning. Frankly most people can’t afford a 911T either.

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WindyCity_X@reddit

F50 and Carrera GT were a different era.

Add the LP640 to that list

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I don’t necessarily agree with the above, but what current production NA + manual car(s) do you see as a better overall driving experience than the Porsche stuff (which I believe is that poster’s claim)? Horses for courses and all, so maybe some of the high-end touring-focused cars would be in the running.

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Duct_tape_bandit@reddit

Performance wise this thing does nothing better than a c5 z06 on good tires which costs 25k

I see a 140k interior and warranty

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WindyCity_X@reddit

People stop making them when they aren't appreciated. The Viper was in production for 27 years, and the last Generation still has a title for production car records Also still tied with the GT2RS for 0-100-0 braking .

It's a taboo subject, but to be honest here when the C6 Z06 and the Viper were around people liked them But would buy other cars based on perception, now The gen 5 Vipers are anywhere from 130-400k .

The GT3 is actually appreciated while the Viper Was not. The C6 Z06 is appreciated as well, but GM doesn't care because most buyers dont buy Manual corvettes anyway.

The Shelby GT350 is another option that's under 100k

That's my opinion. To try and answer your questions

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StandupJetskier@reddit

I have a Miata who takes offense....slow offense, but offense.

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Juicyjackson@reddit (OP)

Its a prediction.

As of now, manufacturers just aren't investing money into new ICE+ manual transmission combinations. What would come around as a mass market car that is better when nobody is investing in it...

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admiralhipper@reddit

100% agree.

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iWant3Pedals@reddit

Modern non-GT 911s seem so overrated. Porsche has over-engineered the grip on the car to the point that there is absolutely no drama to the driving experience on the street unless you're doing 80mph on a tight 20 mph turn. The whole thrill of a rear engine RWD car is inducing lift-off oversteer on command, and the 911 is too stable to let you dance at the limit unless you're driving on a racetrack. I respect the hell out of the 911 and I have an aspirational goal to buy a new one if I am ever successful enough to afford it, but I would never buy it with the intention of it being my fun sporty car. It's just way too clinical and sterile. For the life of me I cannot understand why Porsche engineered all the soul out of the Carreras. They needed to stop being widowmakers, but there was a fine line they could have toed to keep it as an emotional and visceral driving experience.

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skerpz@reddit

You’re not wrong. I’m a Porsche cultist, but the 992 has lost the plot. I’ve driven one, and if I wanted a really fast conservatively styled German luxury car, I’d just buy an RS7. It’s faster, less expensive, nicer inside, and has more room for my kid in the back. Not sure what the point of the Carrera is anymore. It really doesn’t feel like a sports car.

Killing the ICE Boxman twins combined with the direction that the 911 has taken might kill the brand for me.

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iWant3Pedals@reddit

It's so depressing because for a person in my shoes who doesn't have the mentality and courage to start a business and doesn't have the cut-throat type A personality to shoot up the corporate ladder in a ridiculously short amount of time, I can only be in a place to dream about buying a new 911 in 10-20 years with continued upward trajectory and some good fortune in my 401k and other investments. Porsche choosing to go the hyper GT car route instead of the purist sports car route for anything below a GT3 or Turbo is so painful because it means I realistically won't own an emotional experience type of 911 in my lifetime.

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thejetssuckbigtime@reddit

Just 4 years ago a base 992 was 98k… now up to $122k yikes

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themasterofbation@reddit

That's exactly in line with inflation lol $98k in 2020 = $119k in 2024

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Quatro_Leches@reddit

Did Porsche increase salary of their employees to match inflation

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ob_knoxious@reddit

Porsche did actually significantly increase the annual bonus for German employees in 2022 and 2023. Not sure if it matches inflation but they are better than most companies about rewarding all employees when the company does well.

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0815-typ@reddit

Porsche is notorious for paying out the same bonus to every employee. IIRC in the last years it was around 10k€ no matter if you're manager, engineer or the cleaning lady

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Lamborghini4616@reddit

Notorious would be a bad thing.

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thejetssuckbigtime@reddit

No wonder cleaning ladies have the best inside scoops

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themasterofbation@reddit

Salaries have nothing to do with inflation at all: "The annual rate of inflation is the price of the total basket in a given month compared with its price in the same month one year previously"

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zxrax@reddit

your perspective is very myopic.

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garytyrrell@reddit

In general salaries have outpaced inflation since then, so probably.

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vsaint@reddit

Oh sweet, lemme just look at my salary from 2020…….

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xlb250@reddit

Home ownership and investing will protect you from inflation.

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hi_im_bored13@reddit

I don’t know wtf this sub expects porsche (or any manufacturer) to do, do they want them to go bargain with their employers?

Wages have been outpacing inflation for over a year and a half now, new sales records for the 911, porsche is paying good bonus’ to their german teams.

GT3 pricing is a fair complaint - absolutely absurd gain in msrp, but if you couldn’t get a 911t in ‘20 and can’t get one now, that’s not porsches problem

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zxrax@reddit

100% agreed with the gist of your post

But I have to pick some nits here. I think GT3 pricing is also an unfair complaint. Whoever set the 992 GT3 pricing back in 2021 or whatever should have been fired. The whole team, if it was multiple people. From the dealerships' perspective, selling someone a GT3 at MSRP between 2021 and 2024 was akin to writing the buyer a check for ~$35k. Porsche has sold at least 5k GT3s, not to mention RS and S/T models, in that period. That means whoever set that baseline pricing cost Porsche, at bare minimum, hundreds of millions of dollars.

The new GT3 pricing just brings the MSRP into the reality of what people are willing to pay for the product. Mark my words: ADMs on those cars will die within a year because Porsche is taking the profit instead of giving dealerships the option to write people checks by selling at MSRP or scrounge around for the highest bidder with an ADM.

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hi_im_bored13@reddit

To be clear I somewhat agree with you in the sense that I don't blame porsche for raising the price - supply and demand is what it is, the "real" price is the same as there is ADM on all of them anyways, as you said just porsche taking a piece of the pie.

But I think its a fair complaint in the sense if you were dreaming for a GT3 in the 2010s, 991.2 generation, saving up, then watched the MSRP jump tens of thousands of dollars overnight, that sucks, you should be sad/mad/whatever.

Whereas with the base manual carrera (991.1 2s, current 911t), it's been the same price (adjusted for inflation) for over 10 years now. Porsche isn't going to come work a job for you. Thats totally on you.

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tawwkz@reddit

it's been the same price (adjusted for inflation) for over 10 years now

That doesn't mean anything when wages were supressed for 10 years.

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agray20938@reddit

Investing maybe. My home value increasing by $150k in the last 5 years means dick if every other home increased all the same

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themasterofbation@reddit

Why is everyone commenting about salaries? Salaries have weight when calculating inflation

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DudeWhereIsMyDuduk@reddit

So maybe the CPI isn't the best metric?

Just like how raw employment numbers alone probably weren't the best metric to use?

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bestselfnice@reddit

Because that's what actually matters when discussing consumer's ability to afford things? If wages don't track to inflation, inflation isn't really relevant to affordability.

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TheSexyKamil@reddit

You’re right, but the problem with 2024 prices is that everyone is still paying with their 2020 money. Everything inflated other than income so people who could have bought a car 4 years ago are now priced out

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RRFantasyShow@reddit

I can’t afford a new 911. I never could, but I still can’t.

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Oh_ffs_seriously@reddit

A price of a thing has increased because prices of things have increased. Thank you for this invaluable insight.

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Duct_tape_bandit@reddit

Now add adm

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directrix688@reddit

How does a car that costs well into the six figures save the manuals? If anything this is worse, another enthusiast thing held for just the affluent. It used to be super cars, now it’s even something as basic as a manual.

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tawwkz@reddit

Exactly. Like BMW removing it in the M240i (a car with M in its god damn name!).

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SparklingPseudonym@reddit

Porsche: We’re going to be killing the manuals, no one wants them! snickers

Porsche keeps making manuals, just calls them a special name and charges double

Porsche: Look everyone! We’re saving manuals! Give us all your money or we’ll really super duper kill them next year! more snickering

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solo118@reddit

Yes, but at a price.

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ThunderGod_Cid13@reddit

$140k+ cars aren't saving manuals lmao

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Juicyjackson@reddit (OP)

Being able to buy a manual at every price point is certainly important.

From a $28k Civic SI to a $65k M2 to a $100k CT5V Blackwing to a $140k Porsche to a $300k Porsche.

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Hot_Whereas7861@reddit

I think you mean $600k Porsche.

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tofulo@reddit

Si is 31k

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zxrax@reddit

"akchuallyyyy...."

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ThunderGod_Cid13@reddit

Ehh I'm not giving Porsche too much credit when they're also removing the manual from the base cars and pushing owners to the more specialty models to get them.

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admiralhipper@reddit

Agree. The severe time-crunch hit me when I read that the newest 911s (992 dot whatever) would be killing the 7M for a hybrid. I jumped-ship ASAMFP from my 911 dream and got a 718 CGTS 4.0 instead. But I definitely felt the pressured by the lack of time remaining as the great manuals are being killed off.

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imped4now@reddit

718 CGTS 4.0

My attainable dream car. Congrats.

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admiralhipper@reddit

Genuinely impressive vehicle. Haven't gotten tired of the sound yet. Doubt I ever will.

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DontGoogleMeee@reddit

they literally killed off manuals once...and brought them back lol

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admiralhipper@reddit

They also literally made the 911 models that I wanted a hybrid, which can't be manual. So...

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DontGoogleMeee@reddit

if anyone is going to figure it out, it will probably be porsche.

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ThunderGod_Cid13@reddit

You got a great one, so that's good at least. Would you have felt differently had you known about the 911T still coming with the manual?

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admiralhipper@reddit

Absolutely not. I wanted something even smaller, even lighter, 2-seater & NA.
The ONLY thing that might have swayed me would have been the 7M over the 6M. I've never driven the 7M. AND ALSO, I heard a lot of people say that the 7M just wasn't that special...? So who knows.
The 4.0 H6 is really special, though. Only had it for a few months now.

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PMWaffle@reddit

The 6 speed on the t is identical to the 7 speed fwiw. It just loses the overdrive 7th gear.

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redditisawasteoftim3@reddit

The cheapest Porsche you can buy is a 718, manual transmission is no cost option on one

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ThunderGod_Cid13@reddit

Base 911 cars.

But the 718 is going away.

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BloodDK22@reddit

Yeah, good point but any time we can avoid flappy paddles it’s a good thing. Porsches entire car lineup ought to have them available though. For a sports car company, or so they claim they are, this should be obvious.

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Kentx51@reddit

Nah, if the save the manuals crowd is any indication of reality, these will be sold to every person who weekends a 30 year old Miata. /s

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cerberaspeedtwelve@reddit

It's a shame that it couldn't get the shorter gear ratios that the GT3 has. A common complaint from manual Carrera and Carrera S owners is that you can complete journeys entirely using 2nd and 3rd gear, and it ends up feeling much the same as an automatic.

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BWFTW@reddit

My 986 redlines second gear at 114 km/h. So in theory I could only keep the car in second all day if I wanted to haha.

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cpxchewy@reddit

GT3 isn't much shorter for legal limits.

Gear	7MT (7500 RPM)	6MT new GT3
1	45 mph	47 mph
2	77 mph	74 mph
3	111 mph	103 mph
4	149 mph	132 mph
5	188 mph	164 mph
6	223 mph	201 mph
7	285 mph

https://rennlist.com/forums/992/1411275-992-carrera-7mt-vs-992-gt3-vs-992-s-t-speed-per-gear.html#post19432058

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BWFTW@reddit

GTS Turbos and 911 Turbo intercoolers. My understanding was the only engine mechanical difference between the Carrera, S, and GTS with prior generations was the turbos and intercoolers. So any guesses what this will flash tune too haha. APR was saying 530 HP for the old GTS with just a tune and 620 HP with a stage 1 kit from them. So this genuinely may be an easy way to get a 600hp manual 911 if your willing to tune. Not a bad package. Upgraded factor intercooler seems like a huge value add for those willing to tune and modify their car. A chunk of my FD budget was spent on the intercooler alone haha.

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