[-]

EH1987@reddit

Same profiteers that the IOF allows to steal aid in areas under their control? Imagine that.

I distinctly remember many articles detailing Israeli forces deliberate targeting of civilian police personnel tesked with coordinating aid distribution.

[-]

Hamas’ internal security services are not “civilian police” any more than the Feldgendarmerie were “civilian police” in the 1940s, and the task of these internal security forces is to distribute food aid on behalf and as a part of Hamas’ administration in Gaza. They’re not local

Whining that those guys get attacked is like complaining that the USS Wahoo sank Japanese transports carrying food supplies back to the Home Islands, along with two members of the Diet, in 1943. They’re still part of the enemy war effort and they’re gonna get attacked if they are acting in that role.

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EH1987@reddit

That's cool, but I was talking specifically about civilian police like the ones in this article from 9 months ago.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/02/22/gaza-aid-deliveries-looting-police-hamas/

After a string of Israeli attacks on members of Gaza’s Hamas-run civilian police force

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Throwaway5432154322@reddit

Hamas-run civilian police force

This is part of Hamas’ internal security apparatus.

They are coordinating & controlling the flow of public goods on behalf of Hamas’ administration in Gaza. They are provisioning public goods as part of Hamas’ government. They are not unaffiliated aid workers delivering humanitarian services.

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EH1987@reddit

I don't understand what point you're trying to make.

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Throwaway5432154322@reddit

are they combatants

Yes, members of Hamas’ internal security apparatus are combatants.

are doctors working under the health ministry combatants

Not unless they are members of Hamas, such as the director of the Kamal Adwan hospital, who held the rank of brigadier general in the Qassam Brigades since 2010.

https://m.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-778679

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Standard_Ad_4270@reddit

Disingenuous. The admission made by the doctor was under torture and duress.

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Throwaway5432154322@reddit

Of course; members of the militant group that’s proudly proclaimed as “the resistance” by both wide swathes of Gazan society and by their supporters abroad need to be “tortured” into confessing their affiliation.

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EH1987@reddit

Wait, are you denying Israel's well documented use of torture now?

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EH1987@reddit

What makes them combatants exactly? Unless they're members of the Qassam Brigades they are part of the civilian wing of the government.

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Throwaway5432154322@reddit

what makes them combatants

…

who held the rank of brigadier general in the Qassam Brigades since 2010

It’s like arguing that a Japanese merchant marine sailor isn’t part of the emperor’s war effort because they aren’t fighting on the front lines. That line of thought has never flown in the history of warfare, not gonna fly now

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EH1987@reddit

One doctor who confessed under torture makes everyone else combatants?

[-]

Otto_Von_Waffle@reddit

Was he actively fighting or clearly defined as a fighter? Because if being part of the army or having been part of the army count as a combatant while not actively fighting or in a fighting role makes you a legal target, you are saying everyone having done they military services (like everyone in Isreal) count as a combatant.

I swear, everyone seems to be a war crime/Geneva convention expert but no actually know or think about what they say.

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Throwaway5432154322@reddit

He held an active general-level role in Hamas, a nonstate fundamentalist militia; I fail to see how that comes close to a random Israeli citizen who was an E-2 equivalent for a year when they were 18. It’s like claiming that an American teenager deployed Fort Lewis, WA during Vietnam is “the same” as a PAVN colonel.

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Otto_Von_Waffle@reddit

Was he actively fighting at the moment? Geneva convention doesn't care about your past grade or anything else, if you are actively providing medical help and not fighting you can't be shot at, the IDF could have arrested him if he had committed crimes while part of Hamas.

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Throwaway5432154322@reddit

the IDF could have arrested him if he had committed crimes while part of Hamas

...hold on, you do understand that the guy we're talking about (Ahmad Kahlot) literally was arrested by the IDF - not killed - right?

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Appropriate-Draft-91@reddit

You do realize by that logic the partying Israeli reservists killed by Israel and Hamas on Oct 7 were all combatants?

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Throwaway5432154322@reddit

Gotta love how the people supporting Hamas, the Palestinian militant group whose self-stated purpose is to kill every single Jewish person they can find, go to every possible length to avoid calling the most recent time that Hamas killed every single Jewish person they could find, a time that that group did exactly what it said it was gonna do, and killed every single Jewish person that it could find.

Random Israeli citizens at a concert are not “combatants” because they aren’t doing anything to carry out the will of the Israeli state by dancing at a music festival. Hamas security forces distributing humanitarian aid as “Hamas public goods” are, in fact, carrying out the will of Hamas’ administration in Gaza. It’d be an offensive comparison if it wasn’t so ridiculous.

It must be infuriating, being Hamas and watching your supporters on the internet straight up deny the atrocities that you yourself brag about doing.

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TheJewPear@reddit

Yes, they’re combatants. Anyone that works for Hamas and has the authority to use force on Hamas’ behalf is fair game.

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EH1987@reddit

The fact that you think they're fair game is irrelevant, if they're civilians they're not combatants.

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TheJewPear@reddit

They’re not civilians. Carrying arms and having authority to use force are clear signs of them being combatants.

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EH1987@reddit

I'm not exactly shocked to find an Israel supporter has trouble understanding the civilian/military distinction.

[-]

TheJewPear@reddit

I’m not exactly shocked to find a pro Palestinian Redditor making an embarrassing comment about a topic they clearly know very little about.

The armed forces of a Party to a conflict consist of all organized armed forces, groups and units which are under a command responsible to that Party for the conduct of its subordinates, even if that Party is represented by a government or an authority not recognized by an adverse Party. Such armed forces shall be subject to an internal disciplinary system which, ‘ inter alia ‘, shall enforce compliance with the rules of international law applicable in armed conflict.

Members of the armed forces of a Party to a conflict (other than medical personnel and chaplains covered by Article 33 of the Third Convention) are combatants, that is to say, they have the right to participate directly in hostilities.

Article 43 to the Geneva Conventions Additional Protocol I.

By the way, these armed forces are obligated to distinguish themselves from civilian population by wearing uniforms, which Hamas notoriously does not do, and that is a war crime (though admittedly not as bad as all the other war crimes Hamas is probably guilty of).

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EH1987@reddit

This concerns armed forces i.e. military, police are not part of the armed forces. Again failing to grasp the civilian/military-distinction.

Embarrassing indeed.

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TheJewPear@reddit

Please show me where in the Geneva conventions does it say that calling your armed forces “police” excludes them from being considered combatants?

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EH1987@reddit

Please show me the relevant section the Geneva Convention which allows you to willfully designate anyone you want as a combatant.

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TheJewPear@reddit

Not anyone I want, just the ones carrying guns and exercising violence on behalf of the leadership of a warring party. Which, you know, is what the Geneva conventions say.

It’s very amusing to me that you think countries can just name their force “police” and then wham bam they’re civilians that can’t be harmed.

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Ropetrick6@reddit

The following persons are protected by international humanitarian law:

wounded, sick and shipwrecked members of the armed forces who have ceased to take part in the hostilities;

prisoners of war;

civilian persons who because of a conflict or occupation are in the power of a Party whose nationality they do not possess;

medical and religious personnel;

parlementaires;

civil defence personnel;

personnel assigned to the protection of cultural property.

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TheJewPear@reddit

Police forces aren’t civil defense. Civil defense usually refers to fire department, natural disaster response teams, etc.

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Ropetrick6@reddit

Can you please quote where it specifically does not include police as civil defense?

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TheJewPear@reddit

Article 61.

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Ropetrick6@reddit

Article 61 - Relief III. Distribution

The distribution of the relief consignments referred to in the foregoing Articles [ Link ] shall be carried out with the cooperation and under the supervision of the Protecting Power. This duty may also be delegated, by agreement between the Occupying Power and the Protecting Power, to a neutral Power, to the International Committee of the Red Cross or to any other impartial humanitarian body.

Such consignments shall be exempt in occupied territory from all charges, taxes or customs duties unless these are necessary in the interests of the economy of the territory. The Occupying Power shall facilitate the rapid distribution of these consignments.

All Contracting Parties shall endeavour to permit the transit and transport, free of charge, of such relief consignments on their way to occupied territories.

This says NOTHING about police.

[-]

TheJewPear@reddit

Article 61 to the first additional protocol. That is the relevant protocol which deals with these definitions.

Here, let me paste it for you.

—

For the purposes of this Protocol:

(a) “civil defence” means the performance of some or all of the undermentioned humanitarian tasks intended to protect the civilian population against the dangers, and to help it to recover from the immediate effects, of hostilities or disasters and also to provide the conditions necessary for its survival. These tasks are:

(i) warning; (ii) evacuation; (iii) management of shelters; (iv) management of blackout measures; (v) rescue; (vi) medical services, including first aid, and religious assistance; (vii) fire-fighting; (viii) detection and marking of danger areas; (ix) decontamination and similar protective measures; (x) provision of emergency accommodation and supplies; (xi) emergency assistance in the restoration and maintenance of order in distressed areas; (xii) emergency repair of indispensable public utilities; (xiii) emergency disposal of the dead; (xiv) assistance in the preservation of objects essential for survival; (xv) complementary activities necessary to carry out any of the tasks mentioned above, including, but not limited to, planning and organization;

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Ropetrick6@reddit

Police can, have, and do regularly engage in those tasks. Ergo, police are civil defenders.

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TheJewPear@reddit

That’s not how it works. Please read the whole thing following that clause.

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Ropetrick6@reddit

Using your own source, police are civil defenders.

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TheJewPear@reddit

Ok buddy, you’re entitled to your own opinion, as illogical and unfounded as it may be.

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Ropetrick6@reddit

Odd, you're describing your own stance with that statement there. Hopefully you eventually become self aware enough to realize that.

If you're going to tey and keep arguing this point, cite where specifically it says police are unable to qualify as civil defenders.

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TheJewPear@reddit

Do you have anything to support your stance? Let’s have it. I’ll be like you now and wait for your sources.

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EH1987@reddit

Carrying guns and exercising violence on behalf of the government is what police does, it doesn' make them part of the armed forces. 'Armed forces' has an actual meaning, it's not simply any person who is armed and authorised to use force.

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TheJewPear@reddit

Is your source still “trust me bro”?

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EH1987@reddit

My source for what?

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TheJewPear@reddit

For the nonsense you’ve been spewing all over this thread.

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EH1987@reddit

Care to specify?

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travistravis@reddit

This is like saying if Canada invaded New York that it would be completely okay by the rules of war to go after NYPD officers -- it wouldn't, because they're not military combatants, despite the fact they're armed.

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TheJewPear@reddit

If the NYPD were following orders from the civil guard or military, that would turn them into combatants.

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travistravis@reddit

So anyone working for the US government then is fair game in the scenario, because Hamas is the government there, all the civil servants are Hamas.

Whatever it is you think, it's not right -- because even people in Hamas who are non-combatants are not supposed to be targeted according to the rules of war. This is things like spokespeople, diplomats, and, medical personnel, and internal security forces.

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TheJewPear@reddit

I’ve never said anyone that works for Hamas. Only armed forces. Read the fucking Geneva conventions definition.

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Srinema@reddit

So, every armed Israeli is fair game to be targeted? Especially since all but a tiny minority of Israelis already are trained by the military?

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TheJewPear@reddit

Every armed Israeli that’s a part of the forces participating in the war, yes. So say the Geneva conventions, not that anyone should need to look, it’s the logical conclusion. Did you really think it’s possible to be a part of armed forces and a civilian at the same time?

Not that it matters, obviously, Hamas shits all over the Geneva conventions anyway.

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Oppopity@reddit

that’s a part of the forces participating in the war, yes

So not the police?

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TheJewPear@reddit

The police usually participates when there’s an invasion. Do you think back in October 7th when terrorists were storming Israeli towns, the Israeli police was just going “not our business, keep writing those traffic tickets boys”?

Hamas police take an active part in fighting Israelis and dissenting Palestinians.

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Oppopity@reddit

Picking up an arm and fighting makes you a combatant that applies to civilians as well.

Police who are giving you a ticket are not combatants.

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TheJewPear@reddit

Glad we can agree. Hamas police is a part of the fighting, hence they’re valid targets. They’re armed, they’re organized and they take marching orders from the same leadership as all other armed Hamas units. Putting the word “police” in their title (I would say on their uniforms - but they don’t wear any, which is a war crime btw) doesn’t mean jack shit.

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Oppopity@reddit

Israeli police force are

Armed
Organised
Take ordership from the government

Does that make it fair game for a Hamas fighter to shoot a cop giving out parking tickets? No.

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TheJewPear@reddit

Read.

The.

Geneva.

Convention.

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Oppopity@reddit

Point to me where in the geneva convention it says the police force doing civilian duties are combatants.

And I don't mean instances where they are involved in fighting because that applies to civilians as well.

Where does it say being a member of the police makes you a combatant.

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TheJewPear@reddit

I’ve quoted from the conventions above. You can also google it and read about who Hamas’ police is and what they do. It’s not traffic tickets. You’re sitting here defending an armed militia that’s executed countless Palestinians and Israelis, and you’re not arguing in good faith.

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Oppopity@reddit

I’ve quoted from the conventions above

Where?

You can also google it and read about who Hamas’ police is and what they do.

If what they do is non-police things then you should instead be arguing that they aren't a police force, not that police are valid targets according to the Geneva convention.

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TheJewPear@reddit

The Gaza police force is completely embedded within Hamas, and therefore they are combatants. Article 43 to the additional protocol I of the Geneva Conventions is all that you need, and you’d know that if you bothered to google and read beforehand.

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Appropriate-Draft-91@reddit

By your logic, 90% of the Israelis that died on Oct 7 were combatants and fair game.

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TheJewPear@reddit

Those that were armed and in active service, receiving orders from the IDF command, yes, they’re combatants. If that’s 90% so be it.

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Known_Week_158@reddit

You provided a link to a paywalled site, meaning that none of us can check your source unless we either have or pay for the Washington Post.

If you're going to use a paywalled site, provide a copy of the text.

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EH1987@reddit

Strange, I didn't run into a paywall and I don't pay for it.

Maybe this works.

https://archive.ph/kKz5W

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Appropriate-Draft-91@reddit

It does, thanks.

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waiver@reddit

The problem is that they are attacked while they are not acting on that role, but protecting aid shipments, which is what led to the current situation where armed gangs are out of control.

And that's not just my opinion; the Department of State requested that Israel refrain from attacking the police escorting the shipments for the same reason. Humanitarian aid organizations cite this as the reason for the ongoing attacks they are experiencing.

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The_Bear_Jew@reddit

You are crazy, Hamas has been stealing aid. You live in a fantasy world.

https://nypost.com/2024/10/10/world-news/hamas-steals-humanitarian-aid-trucks-from-gaza-strip/

Hamas terrorists were captured on video taking control of 47 of 100 aid trucks entering the Gaza Strip on Tuesday. “It’s no secret that Hamas takes control of humanitarian aid. We’ve already published here tapes of Hamas, in which you hear them say themselves they have no more room in their warehouses,” Channel 12‘s Almog Boker reported on Wednesday evening.

The footage shows Hamas first taking over the trucks, including attacking the drivers. Then the trucks are driven through Rafah with armed terrorists riding on them. If any citizen approaches the trucks, they are immediately fired upon, Almog reported. Gunshots can be heard in the background of the footage.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/27/world/middleeast/palestine-gazans-hamas-food.html

As Gazans Scrounge for Food and Water, Hamas Sits on a Rich Trove of Supplies

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/20658/gaza-aid-stolen

Hamas has been stealing up to 60% of the aid entering the Gaza Strip, and a Channel 12 report last week revealed that the terrorist organization has made at least $500 million in profit off humanitarian aid since the start of the war on Oct. 7.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-820030

Hamas terrorists have confiscated so much humanitarian aid that the terror group is struggling to find space in warehouses to store all of it, according to intercepted communications between Hamas operatives that were played during an episode of N12's "Ulpan Shishi" on Friday.

“We’ve got trucks filled with goods alongside the diesel trucks,” one operative said. “At this point, we have everything... The warehouse is at full capacity. We’re just waiting for the green light to start transferring.” The second operative responded, “Coordinating with Samer is difficult due to a reception issue. If you can move them elsewhere, go ahead.” The first operative then asked, “Can you take them to Khan Yunis, or will that cause a delay?”

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waiver@reddit

Are there no worse sources available? The New York Post, The Jerusalem Post, and a pro-Netanyahu TV channel merely echoing the IDF's statements are hardly reliable. In contrast, the US Government and various aid organizations refute claims that Hamas is misappropriating aid, instead attributing the crisis to Israel's actions, including the targeting of police escorts for aid vehicles. The provided link initially shows Gazan police escorting these vehicles.

Man, you should be smarter than just accepting propaganda at face value. Really, show that you are capable of critical thinking.

The aid organizations:

NGOs say Israel targeting Gaza police helps looters of aid

https://www.rfi.fr/en/middle-east/20241115-ngos-say-israel-targeting-gaza-police-helps-looters-of-aid

The US Government

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/us-said-to-ask-israel-to-stop-targeting-hamas-police-officers-escorting-aid-convoys-in-gaza/

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-struck-palestinian-police-escorting-gaza-aid-says-us-envoy-2024-02-16/

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Throwaway5432154322@reddit

the problem is that they are attacked while they are not acting on that role, but protecting aid shipments,

"Protecting" aid shipments in order to distribute them under the banner & jurisdiction of Hamas' administration is not protecting them at all. It is requisitioning & distributing foreign-supplied aid as if this aid was a public good provided by Hamas.

which is what led to the current situation where armed gangs are out of control.

So other armed groups are filling a power vacuum that the destruction of Hamas has created.

the Department of State requested that Israel refrain from attacking the police escorting the shipments for the same reason.

The US asked the IDF to stop killing Hamas' internal security service? When?

Humanitarian aid organizations cite this as the reason for the ongoing attacks they are experiencing.

That's funny, in July this year they were citing the breakdown in Hamas' control over Gaza's population, and a subsequent increase in dissent, for an increase in looting.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0vewvp14zdo

Is it safe to say that your ultimate line of thinking is something close to, "no one but Hamas can police Gaza" and/or "look what happened when Hamas' control over Gaza got removed"?

[-]

CriticalReneeTheory@reddit

You're comparing a group legally resisting colonization, genocide and apartheid to an industrial power that took over most of Europe out of ultranationalist revanchism? That's disingenuous at best, and I'd say both outright racist and stupid.

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Throwaway5432154322@reddit

No, I’m comparing the governing administration of a authoritarian militia group driven by ultranationalist territorial revanchism based on colonial borders drawn by the British in the 1920s (Hamas) to the governing administration two authoritarian countries driven by ultranationalist territorial revanchism.

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bandaidsplus@reddit

It's hilarious how pro Isreali's and Germans try and compare militants fighting out of a besieged, bombed out concentration camp of a city to one of the most well funded and brutal, modern militaries on earth and insist it's the Palestinians who are more similar to the Nazi's... right lol.

Not the country mass imprisoning people based on ethnicity or razing entire towns while the population cheers on social media.

The group riding around on tanks and shooting small children daily aren't anything like comically evil fascists from media... no way!! It's not like they have bands around their arms displaying their " superior " religion while they ship off prisoners to camps where they suffer rape, starvation and extra judicial killings.. That decent sound like ANYONE whose done a genocide amirite?

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justhistory@reddit

It’s like saying gang members murder members of rival gang and then celebrating the gang that committed the murders. You wouldn’t do that in an American context with rival gangs, but here Hamas who is profiteering punishes rival profiteers and Hamas is the good guy?

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CriticalReneeTheory@reddit

No, it's more like "de facto government cracks down on banditry". Hamas isn't a "gang", they're the government. They have administrators, bureaucracy and bureaucrats, police, civil servants, etc. Most members of Hamas aren't even fighters.

Stopping people from stealing food from everyone isn't profiteering lmao. That's such a weird take.

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TheJewPear@reddit

Hamas doesn’t distribute the aid to the Palestinian people who need it, they first distribute it among their friends and family, only throwing scraps to the Palestinian people.

So it doesn’t matter if you refer to them as a gang or as the dictatorial government, they’re still stealing aid from the people to whom it’s given.

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Uh_I_Say@reddit

Hamas doesn’t distribute the aid to the Palestinian people who need it, they first distribute it among their friends and family, only throwing scraps to ordinary people.

Is there any proof of this that isn't IDF propaganda? I see it repeated a lot but haven't seen an actual source for the claim.

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esperind@reddit

literally all the people starving is said proof.

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AntifaAnita@reddit

The United States government officially declared that no food entered Northern Gaza for 2 weeks, a region with a population that would require thousands of trucks making deliveries to meet minimum standards of nutritional requirements.

How could Hamas steal food that doesn't exist?

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The_Bear_Jew@reddit

The United States government officially declared that no food entered Northern Gaza for 2 weeks

Lol, no they didn't.

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AntifaAnita@reddit

Lol no, you're wrong.

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Leshawkcomics@reddit

That sounds like the people in charge of sending food into the area aren't doing it.

Food is a perishable resource. If they're sending in so little that a rounding error fraction of the population can hoard it all, then they're not sending in enough.

If one bully in school can steal all the food every day from every student. that doesn't mean you have a bully problem. That means you're starving the students so badly a single bully can carry what you DO give away.

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The_Bear_Jew@reddit

Nah, they are, Hamas is just stealing it.

https://nypost.com/2024/10/10/world-news/hamas-steals-humanitarian-aid-trucks-from-gaza-strip/

Hamas terrorists were captured on video taking control of 47 of 100 aid trucks entering the Gaza Strip on Tuesday. “It’s no secret that Hamas takes control of humanitarian aid. We’ve already published here tapes of Hamas, in which you hear them say themselves they have no more room in their warehouses,” Channel 12‘s Almog Boker reported on Wednesday evening.

The footage shows Hamas first taking over the trucks, including attacking the drivers. Then the trucks are driven through Rafah with armed terrorists riding on them. If any citizen approaches the trucks, they are immediately fired upon, Almog reported. Gunshots can be heard in the background of the footage.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/27/world/middleeast/palestine-gazans-hamas-food.html

As Gazans Scrounge for Food and Water, Hamas Sits on a Rich Trove of Supplies

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/20658/gaza-aid-stolen

Hamas has been stealing up to 60% of the aid entering the Gaza Strip, and a Channel 12 report last week revealed that the terrorist organization has made at least $500 million in profit off humanitarian aid since the start of the war on Oct. 7.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-820030

Hamas terrorists have confiscated so much humanitarian aid that the terror group is struggling to find space in warehouses to store all of it, according to intercepted communications between Hamas operatives that were played during an episode of N12's "Ulpan Shishi" on Friday.

“We’ve got trucks filled with goods alongside the diesel trucks,” one operative said. “At this point, we have everything... The warehouse is at full capacity. We’re just waiting for the green light to start transferring.” The second operative responded, “Coordinating with Samer is difficult due to a reception issue. If you can move them elsewhere, go ahead.” The first operative then asked, “Can you take them to Khan Yunis, or will that cause a delay?”

[-]

Leshawkcomics@reddit

"If they send in so little that a few hundred hamas can carry it all away, they clearly didn't send enough to feed the 2 million people that actually need it."

It doesnt MATTER if hamas steals it. They cannot actually hold enough food by themselves to feed the whole nation, So if the nation is starving then its israel's fault.

The first post proved it.

47 stolen food trucks does not put a dent in the amount of food needed to feed MILLIONS for a single BREAKFAST let alone during a crisis.

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Otto_Von_Waffle@reddit

Hamas was proven to hoarding fuel and medical supplies, but your analogy is pretty spot on, if everyone is starving that bad, I don't see how Hamas could steal everything.

[-]

mnmkdc@reddit

I believe that Hamas is taking aid for themselves first, but there just isn’t enough aid going in to a lot of parts of Gaza. That genuinely is not proof at all

[-]

The_Bear_Jew@reddit

Nope, they are flat out stealing it and hoarding it.

https://nypost.com/2024/10/10/world-news/hamas-steals-humanitarian-aid-trucks-from-gaza-strip/

Hamas terrorists were captured on video taking control of 47 of 100 aid trucks entering the Gaza Strip on Tuesday. “It’s no secret that Hamas takes control of humanitarian aid. We’ve already published here tapes of Hamas, in which you hear them say themselves they have no more room in their warehouses,” Channel 12‘s Almog Boker reported on Wednesday evening.

The footage shows Hamas first taking over the trucks, including attacking the drivers. Then the trucks are driven through Rafah with armed terrorists riding on them. If any citizen approaches the trucks, they are immediately fired upon, Almog reported. Gunshots can be heard in the background of the footage.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/27/world/middleeast/palestine-gazans-hamas-food.html

As Gazans Scrounge for Food and Water, Hamas Sits on a Rich Trove of Supplies

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/20658/gaza-aid-stolen

Hamas has been stealing up to 60% of the aid entering the Gaza Strip, and a Channel 12 report last week revealed that the terrorist organization has made at least $500 million in profit off humanitarian aid since the start of the war on Oct. 7.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-820030

Hamas terrorists have confiscated so much humanitarian aid that the terror group is struggling to find space in warehouses to store all of it, according to intercepted communications between Hamas operatives that were played during an episode of N12's "Ulpan Shishi" on Friday.

“We’ve got trucks filled with goods alongside the diesel trucks,” one operative said. “At this point, we have everything... The warehouse is at full capacity. We’re just waiting for the green light to start transferring.” The second operative responded, “Coordinating with Samer is difficult due to a reception issue. If you can move them elsewhere, go ahead.” The first operative then asked, “Can you take them to Khan Yunis, or will that cause a delay?”

[-]

Uh_I_Say@reddit

No it's not? People starving is just proof that they're not receiving enough food. That could be because the food is being stolen, or because insufficient food is being provided in the first place. I'm just asking for proof if you're arguing the former, because we absolutely have proof of the latter.

[-]

EH1987@reddit

Schrödinger's famine.

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The_Bear_Jew@reddit

There is video evidence of it happening.

https://nypost.com/2024/10/10/world-news/hamas-steals-humanitarian-aid-trucks-from-gaza-strip/

Hamas terrorists were captured on video taking control of 47 of 100 aid trucks entering the Gaza Strip on Tuesday. “It’s no secret that Hamas takes control of humanitarian aid. We’ve already published here tapes of Hamas, in which you hear them say themselves they have no more room in their warehouses,” Channel 12‘s Almog Boker reported on Wednesday evening.

The footage shows Hamas first taking over the trucks, including attacking the drivers. Then the trucks are driven through Rafah with armed terrorists riding on them. If any citizen approaches the trucks, they are immediately fired upon, Almog reported. Gunshots can be heard in the background of the footage.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/27/world/middleeast/palestine-gazans-hamas-food.html

As Gazans Scrounge for Food and Water, Hamas Sits on a Rich Trove of Supplies

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/20658/gaza-aid-stolen

Hamas has been stealing up to 60% of the aid entering the Gaza Strip, and a Channel 12 report last week revealed that the terrorist organization has made at least $500 million in profit off humanitarian aid since the start of the war on Oct. 7.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-820030

Hamas terrorists have confiscated so much humanitarian aid that the terror group is struggling to find space in warehouses to store all of it, according to intercepted communications between Hamas operatives that were played during an episode of N12's "Ulpan Shishi" on Friday.

“We’ve got trucks filled with goods alongside the diesel trucks,” one operative said. “At this point, we have everything... The warehouse is at full capacity. We’re just waiting for the green light to start transferring.” The second operative responded, “Coordinating with Samer is difficult due to a reception issue. If you can move them elsewhere, go ahead.” The first operative then asked, “Can you take them to Khan Yunis, or will that cause a delay?”

[-]

Uh_I_Say@reddit

These only prove half of the statement but that's better than nothing, so thank you. It does raise a follow-up question: why is Israel so intent on blocking aid if it's this clear that such a policy is only hurting the citizens of Gaza and not Hamas? Seems like a pretty cut and dry example of collective punishment.

[-]

TheCynicalWoodsman@reddit

Imagine giving the benefit of the doubt to Hamas terrorists, we live in a clown world.

[-]

Gorganzoolaz@reddit

The power of propaganda my friend. The people you're arguing don't believe hamas has done anything bad.

Then again, they don't consider the October 7th attacks which started this destructive round of blood-letting to be a bad thing in the first place.

[-]

ShootmansNC@reddit

Zionists have proven themselves to be far more dishonest.

[-]

xToasted1@reddit

you seem to give plenty of benefit of the doubt to IDF terrorists

[-]

TheCynicalWoodsman@reddit

Lmao this sub is something else.

[-]

waiver@reddit

Hamas does not distribute the aid; it is managed by aid organizations. These organizations attribute the current issues with aid distribution to the fact that Israeli forces killed the Gaza police who were escorting the trucks.

[-]

The_Bear_Jew@reddit

Nah, it's because Hamas keeps stealing the aid.

https://nypost.com/2024/10/10/world-news/hamas-steals-humanitarian-aid-trucks-from-gaza-strip/

Hamas terrorists were captured on video taking control of 47 of 100 aid trucks entering the Gaza Strip on Tuesday. “It’s no secret that Hamas takes control of humanitarian aid. We’ve already published here tapes of Hamas, in which you hear them say themselves they have no more room in their warehouses,” Channel 12‘s Almog Boker reported on Wednesday evening.

The footage shows Hamas first taking over the trucks, including attacking the drivers. Then the trucks are driven through Rafah with armed terrorists riding on them. If any citizen approaches the trucks, they are immediately fired upon, Almog reported. Gunshots can be heard in the background of the footage.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/27/world/middleeast/palestine-gazans-hamas-food.html

As Gazans Scrounge for Food and Water, Hamas Sits on a Rich Trove of Supplies

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/20658/gaza-aid-stolen

Hamas has been stealing up to 60% of the aid entering the Gaza Strip, and a Channel 12 report last week revealed that the terrorist organization has made at least $500 million in profit off humanitarian aid since the start of the war on Oct. 7.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-820030

Hamas terrorists have confiscated so much humanitarian aid that the terror group is struggling to find space in warehouses to store all of it, according to intercepted communications between Hamas operatives that were played during an episode of N12's "Ulpan Shishi" on Friday.

“We’ve got trucks filled with goods alongside the diesel trucks,” one operative said. “At this point, we have everything... The warehouse is at full capacity. We’re just waiting for the green light to start transferring.” The second operative responded, “Coordinating with Samer is difficult due to a reception issue. If you can move them elsewhere, go ahead.” The first operative then asked, “Can you take them to Khan Yunis, or will that cause a delay?”

[-]

waiver@reddit

Already refuted your pisspoor propaganda in your other posts. But for instance those guys wearing black on top of aid trucks are Gaza police escorting them.

If you think that all there is a conspiracy where all Aid organizations agreed to lie and say that Hamas wasn't stealing from them, you are completely deluded.

[-]

tallzmeister@reddit (OP)

source desperately needed

[-]

The_Bear_Jew@reddit

K.

https://nypost.com/2024/10/10/world-news/hamas-steals-humanitarian-aid-trucks-from-gaza-strip/

Hamas terrorists were captured on video taking control of 47 of 100 aid trucks entering the Gaza Strip on Tuesday. “It’s no secret that Hamas takes control of humanitarian aid. We’ve already published here tapes of Hamas, in which you hear them say themselves they have no more room in their warehouses,” Channel 12‘s Almog Boker reported on Wednesday evening.

The footage shows Hamas first taking over the trucks, including attacking the drivers. Then the trucks are driven through Rafah with armed terrorists riding on them. If any citizen approaches the trucks, they are immediately fired upon, Almog reported. Gunshots can be heard in the background of the footage.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/27/world/middleeast/palestine-gazans-hamas-food.html

As Gazans Scrounge for Food and Water, Hamas Sits on a Rich Trove of Supplies

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/20658/gaza-aid-stolen

Hamas has been stealing up to 60% of the aid entering the Gaza Strip, and a Channel 12 report last week revealed that the terrorist organization has made at least $500 million in profit off humanitarian aid since the start of the war on Oct. 7.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-820030

Hamas terrorists have confiscated so much humanitarian aid that the terror group is struggling to find space in warehouses to store all of it, according to intercepted communications between Hamas operatives that were played during an episode of N12's "Ulpan Shishi" on Friday.

“We’ve got trucks filled with goods alongside the diesel trucks,” one operative said. “At this point, we have everything... The warehouse is at full capacity. We’re just waiting for the green light to start transferring.” The second operative responded, “Coordinating with Samer is difficult due to a reception issue. If you can move them elsewhere, go ahead.” The first operative then asked, “Can you take them to Khan Yunis, or will that cause a delay?”

[-]

tallzmeister@reddit (OP)

I meant source, not propaganda, but ok

[-]

Cu_Chulainn__@reddit

they first distribute it among their friends and family, only throwing scraps to ordinary people.

So like any government then?

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TheJewPear@reddit

I don’t think that’s the case, and publicly shooting civilians trying to get some food is sure as shit not like any other government.

Either way - it’s unlawful and immoral behavior. Just because others do it doesn’t mean it isn’t.

[-]

Cu_Chulainn__@reddit

publicly shooting civilians trying to get some food is sure as shit not like any other government.

It is like the Israeli government

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TheJewPear@reddit

Well, no, not the same thing at all when we’re talking about the civilians of an enemy state or entity rather than your own civilians. Even if we assume all is true and Israel wants to starve all Palestinians, how is that an excuse for Hamas starving Palestinians?

[-]

Cu_Chulainn__@reddit

Well, no, not the same thing at all when we’re talking about the civilians of an enemy state or entity rather than your own civilians.

I mean, it is the same thing when you are currently occupying that enemy state.

Even if we assume all is true and Israel wants to starve all Palestinians, how is that an excuse for Hamas starving Palestinians?

Who said it was an excuse? That doesn't make it okay for hamas or Israel to starve them. The difference being is hamas aren't currently stopping aid trucks from getting into the gaza strip

[-]

SRGsergan592@reddit

Casually ignores the Israeli autopsy of Sinwar's body showing he hasn't eaten for 72 hours before death.

[-]

The_Bear_Jew@reddit

Casually ignores all of the articles showing that Hamas has stolen and kept aid:

https://nypost.com/2024/10/10/world-news/hamas-steals-humanitarian-aid-trucks-from-gaza-strip/

Hamas terrorists were captured on video taking control of 47 of 100 aid trucks entering the Gaza Strip on Tuesday. “It’s no secret that Hamas takes control of humanitarian aid. We’ve already published here tapes of Hamas, in which you hear them say themselves they have no more room in their warehouses,” Channel 12‘s Almog Boker reported on Wednesday evening.

The footage shows Hamas first taking over the trucks, including attacking the drivers. Then the trucks are driven through Rafah with armed terrorists riding on them. If any citizen approaches the trucks, they are immediately fired upon, Almog reported. Gunshots can be heard in the background of the footage.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/27/world/middleeast/palestine-gazans-hamas-food.html

As Gazans Scrounge for Food and Water, Hamas Sits on a Rich Trove of Supplies

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/20658/gaza-aid-stolen

Hamas has been stealing up to 60% of the aid entering the Gaza Strip, and a Channel 12 report last week revealed that the terrorist organization has made at least $500 million in profit off humanitarian aid since the start of the war on Oct. 7.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-820030

Hamas terrorists have confiscated so much humanitarian aid that the terror group is struggling to find space in warehouses to store all of it, according to intercepted communications between Hamas operatives that were played during an episode of N12's "Ulpan Shishi" on Friday.

“We’ve got trucks filled with goods alongside the diesel trucks,” one operative said. “At this point, we have everything... The warehouse is at full capacity. We’re just waiting for the green light to start transferring.” The second operative responded, “Coordinating with Samer is difficult due to a reception issue. If you can move them elsewhere, go ahead.” The first operative then asked, “Can you take them to Khan Yunis, or will that cause a delay?”

[-]

_geary@reddit

A quick search and the first two pages are entirely Middle Eastern/ pro-Palestine blog and social media posts. I'm going to have to call bullshit on that.

[-]

SRGsergan592@reddit

They all source Israeli media because that's where it was reported.

[-]

_geary@reddit

Not a single Israeli source to be found. Not even Haaretz.

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thizface@reddit

Here you go! https://www.timesofisrael.com/sinwar-died-of-gunshot-to-head-says-doctor-who-oversaw-autopsy/amp/

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tisallfair@reddit

Your source mentions nothing about whether he starved for 72 hours prior to assassination.

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thizface@reddit

Articles going through IDF censors wouldn’t say anything like that

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tisallfair@reddit

So why post the source if it doesn't make mention of your claim?

[-]

thizface@reddit

Because there’s a wild difference between what news sites going through IDF censors and what’s actually happening.

[-]

Disastrous-Bus-9834@reddit

You said that Telegram sources cited Israeli media but that single source is nonexistent

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tisallfair@reddit

Lol. In that case you won't believe the source I have to support my claim that Yahyah Sinwar was actually in constant contact with the Biden/Harris campaign to become Special Envoy to the United States if they won.

[-]

thizface@reddit

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20241104-autopsy-reveals-yahya-sinwar-hadnt-eaten-for-3-days-before-assassination/amp/

[-]

tisallfair@reddit

This is actually priceless. I read the article that your source referenced. It says the exact opposite.

"Surprisingly, despite the harsh conditions of underground warfare, Sinwar's body showed no signs of malnourishment. Weighing in at 152 pounds, it appears that even while orchestrating operations from hidden tunnels, the Hamas leader maintained access to adequate nutrition."

You are the absolute worst advocate for your cause. Please continue.

[-]

thizface@reddit

Im not sure youre understanding what’s going on. Do you notice anything odd with news websites and their slant

[-]

Cu_Chulainn__@reddit

The article you linked stated that Israel hayom stated that sinwar was malnourished. That media site did not in fact say that which is what the person you are responding to has quoted

[-]

thizface@reddit

Like I said, articles go through IDF censors. So whatever Israel hayom reported from Chen Hugels autopsy was redacted.

[-]

_geary@reddit

You made a claim that was total BS, posted a pink that literally says the opposite, now you're trying to speak nonsense to seem right? Pathetic.

[-]

sailing_by_the_lee@reddit

This fact-checking is awesome. Much appreciated!

[-]

thizface@reddit

I said you would never currently see anything like that after it goes through IDF censors. So if Chen hugel said it, it wasn’t reported by Israeli sources… because they are censored bh the IDF

[-]

thizface@reddit

Here’s another link

[-]

_geary@reddit

Surprisingly, despite the harsh conditions of underground warfare, Sinwar's body showed no signs of malnourishment. Weighing in at 152 pounds, it appears that even while orchestrating operations from hidden tunnels, the Hamas leader maintained access to adequate nutrition.

In addition, the forensic team found no evidence of significant health deterioration attributable to Sinwar's extended periods in subterranean hideouts.

[-]

MindOfNoNation@reddit

Sinwar was in Rafiah, encircled for weeks if not months. He was not with the general population in the north. Him being cut off from food makes sense and is not the point you think it is. Aid has been primarily targeted towards the north where the genpop is.

[-]

Dorrbrook@reddit

That's not true. The gen pop in in the south where the most aid has gone.

[-]

Scared_Lack3422@reddit

I mean, that could be explained logically if you wanted to try just a little bit. He was in hiding and potentially trying to escape to a different country. He stopped using digital communication devices. Its not 100% feasible for his minions to know where he is at all times and to risk getting killed to bring him food they don't necessarily know he needs.

Or maybe he was fasting! Just kidding

Many Gazans can access food as long as they pay dearly for it

[-]

swelboy@reddit

Tbf don’t a lot of governments do that? Not pro-Hamas ofc.

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TheJewPear@reddit

I’d imagine it’s more common among dictatorships.. but I don’t know. I don’t remember reading stories about the Ukrainian military stealing aid from Ukrainian civilians, for instance.

[-]

swelboy@reddit

I meant like hoarding resources to themselves, it’s just that in Gaza’s case a lot of those resources are aid.

[-]

TheJewPear@reddit

Again, I haven’t seen stories about the Ukrainian army doing that. The way things work in a normal country, the army exists to protect the citizens, not the other way around.

[-]

GuentherKleiner@reddit

Tell me you don't know what "de facto" means without saying it explicitly. De facto hamas ain't governing a whole lot, the De facto government of Gaza is probably the IDF at this point.

[-]

Kinda-A-Bot@reddit

But before idf invaded, who was in charge?

Like you don’t have to like hamas to acknowledge their impact outside what you don’t like. wtf are you arguing this for? Contribute to the thread, not your own rage.

[-]

GuentherKleiner@reddit

Its not that I just dont like Hamas, and to be very clear, just dont like em.

But they are not the de facto government. You dont know the meaning of the word "de facto" if you think they are. The ruling power in Gaza right now is de facto the IDF, Hamas can hardly exert any government powers.

[-]

Kinda-A-Bot@reddit

Willfully ignoring words to circle back to your own circlejerk position. Amazing. Argue harder in bad faith dude. Surely it’s not super transparent.

[-]

GuentherKleiner@reddit

I didn't ignore anything and I'm not arguing in bad faith.

"De facto" is used to compare to "de jure", meaning "by law". As an example, in 2015 Crimea was de jure Ukranian territory, de facto it was russian territory tho. Meaning by international law it belonged to Ukraine, while the military presence meant that in effect it was governed by Russia.

And who is effectively governing Gaza right now. I don't believe it to be Hamas.

[-]

Kinda-A-Bot@reddit

My guy went to sleep thinking about this and woke up to sling snark. 10/10 dedication for no real merit.

If we go by your standards the answer still isn’t IDF. They aren’t helping civilians. They literally turned off resources and allow fighting to occur over what little makes it though. They are upholding no law with these actions. As barbaric a response it is, one side is knee capping instigators and the other allows all kind of bullshittery to happen because it hurts the populace at large and that’s a win win to them.

If anything nobody rules shit in this wasteland of broken promises, dreams and body parts. But do go off about this bullshit semantic battle so you feel better about….nothing at all of true merit or substance

[-]

GuentherKleiner@reddit

Lmao, if you think I went to sleep thinking about this then I guess you're about to go to sleep thinking about this lmao.

First of all, if you're using semantics, which de facto and de jure are, don't complain about people correcting you on these terms.

You're on the same level as a flat earther saying "don't come to me with this physics".

So let me get this straight, a de facto government doesn't - have control over a region - collects taxes - administers public goods

If your definition of "de facto government" is "knee capping instigators", that is an indictment of your obviously lacking intellect.

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Kinda-A-Bot@reddit

I didn’t use those terms numb nuts. I didn’t even defend. I literally said at one point hamas ran things and you ignored that to say “what about now” when the answer still isn’t the idf.

The idf isn’t collecting taxes. They aren’t distributing resources. They aren’t acting as a governing body. Just an oppressive occupying body. If you’re gonna argue semantics, then argue it but understand you’re fucking up basic english. You don’t get to ignore context that makes you uncomfortable.

The irony of you insulting anyone’s intellectual is do doubt lost on you.

[-]

Immediate-Spite-5905@reddit

de facto would imply Hamas has more power than the IDF rn

[-]

ralphy1010@reddit

You'll have to cut my fellow American some slack, most of us barely have a 4th grade reading level these days.

[-]

ForgetfullRelms@reddit

Meanwhile people are arguing that because Hamas is a terrorist organization that we should just shrug when they wage war in a manner that violates the rules of war,

[-]

Appropriate-Draft-91@reddit

Hamas is literally the government, and was obliterated in the "who's the bigger terrorist" contest against the Israeli government. Israel won with a score of 125 to 1.

[-]

NymusRaed@reddit

Even if that metaphor were a good mirror of reality I'd still trust the gang member over a morally corrupted cop, because the cop is will always get away with their crimes.

[-]

C_Gull27@reddit

Less gang members to worry about either way

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Iliyan61@reddit

america entirely would celebrate that lol

literally half of americas policy is fund/support group X to kill group Y

[-]

IsoRhytmic@reddit

Imagine bombing and destroying all infrastructure (including security and police) and then wondering why things go to shit in a population of 2 million (not even considering the other fked up thing’s happening)

If even 1/100th of what has happened to Gaza happened to your town, your local walmart would be looted within the first day.

[-]

thizface@reddit

Link?

[-]

Best_Change4155@reddit

Imagine defending Hamas police lmao I am sure all these profiteers got a fair trial and absolutely no mistakes were made.

[-]

EH1987@reddit

Imagine missing the point this badly.

[-]

markbadly@reddit

The biggest cartel in a area takes out its competition and commenters are busy poasting about "the IOF" , this subreddit is so cooked

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum

[-]

monsieurkaizer@reddit

You have some word diarrhea at the end of your comment there. No offense meant to your country of course.

[-]

gazongagizmo@reddit

there's a minimum character limit for top level comments. a comment with fewer than 150 characters gets auto-deleted.

[-]

ihassaifi@reddit

You are cooked. Go worry about your own country which is becoming a shit hole. People dying of hunger, pollution, train accidents, traffic accidents, chemical in food, counterfeit medicines, poor fire safety standards and so and on and on. It’s better to worry about your own govt instead of supporting a genocide thousand of kms away.

You are supporting a genocide just because it’s against Muslims because Islamophobia is in trend in India.

[-]

markbadly@reddit

Where am I “supporting a genocide” dipshit? And at least flair up with your country’s flair if you want to do ad homiem attacks lol

[-]

CandyFromABaby91@reddit

Good.

When I speak with people there, they say 80% of the aid is stolen and sold at 10x the price. People are dying of hunger, no one should profit off of that.

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BDB-ISR-@reddit

Hamas is the one stealing the aid and selling it at hiked up prices.

[-]

xToasted1@reddit

yes, very trustworthy statement from an Israeli

[-]

BDB-ISR-@reddit

That's what the Gazans have been saying themselves for a year now though. It's been well documented.
https://nypost.com/2024/10/10/world-news/hamas-steals-humanitarian-aid-trucks-from-gaza-strip/

[-]

Appropriate-Draft-91@reddit

Read the facts, not the framing. The claims in the New York Post, by AIPAC, both sources with the maximum possible amount of bias, are:

Gunmen "took control" of 47 out of 100 aid trucks.
The Gunmen sit on the trucks as the trucks drive through Rafah.
The gunmen defend the trucks.
The gunmen are Hamas terrorists.
The IDF is attacking and killing the gunmen doing that
Hamas sells aid to the civilian population.

According to the Israeli government and organizations on the israeli government's payroll

And you provided the link while commenting on a story about Hamas escorting and protecting aid convoys to fight back against aid thieves (some of which are allegedly Israeli sponsored and ISIS affiliated, according to more thorough articles) who sell the aid at vastly inflated prices, while the IDF is actively assisting the thieves and trying to kill anyone who protects the aid convoy.

According to aid organizations, the UN, and Hamas.

These are the same story.

[-]

The_Bear_Jew@reddit

https://nypost.com/2024/10/10/world-news/hamas-steals-humanitarian-aid-trucks-from-gaza-strip/

Hamas terrorists were captured on video taking control of 47 of 100 aid trucks entering the Gaza Strip on Tuesday. “It’s no secret that Hamas takes control of humanitarian aid. We’ve already published here tapes of Hamas, in which you hear them say themselves they have no more room in their warehouses,” Channel 12‘s Almog Boker reported on Wednesday evening.

The footage shows Hamas first taking over the trucks, including attacking the drivers. Then the trucks are driven through Rafah with armed terrorists riding on them. If any citizen approaches the trucks, they are immediately fired upon, Almog reported. Gunshots can be heard in the background of the footage.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/27/world/middleeast/palestine-gazans-hamas-food.html

As Gazans Scrounge for Food and Water, Hamas Sits on a Rich Trove of Supplies

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/20658/gaza-aid-stolen

Hamas has been stealing up to 60% of the aid entering the Gaza Strip, and a Channel 12 report last week revealed that the terrorist organization has made at least $500 million in profit off humanitarian aid since the start of the war on Oct. 7.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-820030

Hamas terrorists have confiscated so much humanitarian aid that the terror group is struggling to find space in warehouses to store all of it, according to intercepted communications between Hamas operatives that were played during an episode of N12's "Ulpan Shishi" on Friday.

“We’ve got trucks filled with goods alongside the diesel trucks,” one operative said. “At this point, we have everything... The warehouse is at full capacity. We’re just waiting for the green light to start transferring.” The second operative responded, “Coordinating with Samer is difficult due to a reception issue. If you can move them elsewhere, go ahead.” The first operative then asked, “Can you take them to Khan Yunis, or will that cause a delay?”

They are stealing the aid and keeping it for themselves.

[-]

seventuplets@reddit

Did you read the byline?

[-]

The_Bear_Jew@reddit

https://nypost.com/2024/10/10/world-news/hamas-steals-humanitarian-aid-trucks-from-gaza-strip/

Hamas terrorists were captured on video taking control of 47 of 100 aid trucks entering the Gaza Strip on Tuesday. “It’s no secret that Hamas takes control of humanitarian aid. We’ve already published here tapes of Hamas, in which you hear them say themselves they have no more room in their warehouses,” Channel 12‘s Almog Boker reported on Wednesday evening.

The footage shows Hamas first taking over the trucks, including attacking the drivers. Then the trucks are driven through Rafah with armed terrorists riding on them. If any citizen approaches the trucks, they are immediately fired upon, Almog reported. Gunshots can be heard in the background of the footage.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/27/world/middleeast/palestine-gazans-hamas-food.html

As Gazans Scrounge for Food and Water, Hamas Sits on a Rich Trove of Supplies

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/20658/gaza-aid-stolen

Hamas has been stealing up to 60% of the aid entering the Gaza Strip, and a Channel 12 report last week revealed that the terrorist organization has made at least $500 million in profit off humanitarian aid since the start of the war on Oct. 7.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-820030

Hamas terrorists have confiscated so much humanitarian aid that the terror group is struggling to find space in warehouses to store all of it, according to intercepted communications between Hamas operatives that were played during an episode of N12's "Ulpan Shishi" on Friday.

“We’ve got trucks filled with goods alongside the diesel trucks,” one operative said. “At this point, we have everything... The warehouse is at full capacity. We’re just waiting for the green light to start transferring.” The second operative responded, “Coordinating with Samer is difficult due to a reception issue. If you can move them elsewhere, go ahead.” The first operative then asked, “Can you take them to Khan Yunis, or will that cause a delay?”

[-]

CandyFromABaby91@reddit

That’s not what they tell me.

It’s primarily businessmen(thieves) working with Israel to coordinate when aid will arrive so they can steal it.

[-]

ExArdEllyOh@reddit

The IRA used to kneecap drug dealers and other petty criminals in Norn Iron but it was because they didn't like competition rather than any sort of moral superiority.

I would expect that this is the same, these "profiteers" are undercutting or competing with the resistance-rapists and they don't like that.

[-]

tallzmeister@reddit (OP)

Rapists? I think you're confused. This article is about Palestinians not about israeli prison guards who routinely rape detainees who are not convicted of any crimes - said rapes are state-sanctioned and widely applauded by israeli politicians and the israeli public. Have you not heard about them?

[-]

Eexoduis@reddit

Guys come on. There are rapists on both sides.

[-]

tallzmeister@reddit (OP)

Yes, with an important difference.

[-]

dylphil@reddit

I mean, if someone rapes someone, they’re a rapist. They’re morally the same regardless of if they’re on your team or not

[-]

tallzmeister@reddit (OP)

I would argue that state sanctioned systematic raping of detainees is morally worse than assholes that rape people. It has nothing to do with teams. It has to do with the systematic and institutional nature of the act against vulnerable detainees in the state's supposed care and the widespread societal and political cover they receive from israeli society and leadership. Do you really not see a difference?

[-]

dylphil@reddit

To be honest, no, I don’t see much of a difference. In both cases they are scum of the earth.

[-]

tallzmeister@reddit (OP)

Yes, there are rapists in every country, i didn't realise that you considered that some sort of concession.

But most rapists aren't committing widespread rape of vulnerable people under their care, caught on camera, which is state sanctioned and encouraged by masses within the population and leaders of the country. Are you arguing in bad faith, or do you genuinely not get it?

[-]

dylphil@reddit

I mean, the UN also acknowledged there is significant evidence of sexual evidence against Israeli prisoners/Oct 7 victims.

I don’t think either side has a leg to stand on when it comes to morality.

[-]

tallzmeister@reddit (OP)

The report said that "despite concerted efforts to encourage" victims to come forward, the team was unable to interview any of them.

Some allegations of rape and sexual violence were "unfounded", the report explained, including the graphically publicised case of a pregnant woman whose womb was reportedly torn open and her foetus stabbed. Other reports could not be verified due to limited imagery, the UN said.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68474899

Horrific if true. Again, not the same as state sanctioned rape of detainees applauded and encouraged by israeli leaders and general population.

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Shellz2bellz@reddit

How are Hamas members running over the border and raping women not state sanctioned? I’ve been reliably informed by this sub that Hamas are a government still (when it’s convenient for their argument). It’s also pretty obviously encouraged and applauded

You’re still trying to undermine violent sexual assault because it makes “your side” look marginally better in your mind.

Do better, this is disgusting

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tallzmeister@reddit (OP)

Did you read any of my messages?

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Shellz2bellz@reddit

Of course, thats why I responded. Do you struggle with reading comprehension? I was pretty clear in my writing

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tallzmeister@reddit (OP)

Well your response shows you have zero understanding of what i wrote, thats why i asked. I was pretty clear in asking.

Do better, youre disgusting.

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dylphil@reddit

“my favored rapists are morally superior to others’ favored rapists”

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna141789

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tallzmeister@reddit (OP)

So they ARE worse - than you, that took a while!

To be clear, im not sympathetic of hamas or of anyone committing acts of sexual violence. Perhaps you should be concerned that israel is systematically committing similar act to hamas?!

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AmputatorBot@reddit

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__El_Presidente__@reddit

I'd say that there's a difference between a policeman being a rapist and the whole police department organizing a rape campaing against "enemies of law and order".

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scelerat@reddit

No, it's ok when Hamas rapes because they're raping in support of a good cause

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slickweasel333@reddit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism?wprov=sfla1

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tallzmeister@reddit (OP)

What? I was directly responding to your factually incorrect statement in your reply. You might want to read your own link to understand what whataboutism is.

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ExArdEllyOh@reddit

You are the perfect example of why I have nothing but contempt for you and your cause.

You know that Hamas and friends went out murdering and raping civilians last October. They posted videos of it and people like you reveled in the atrocity of it. And now you deny it like the moral vacuums that you are.

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blueNgoldWarrior@reddit

You have contempt for the anti-genocide cause because you are an intellectually degraded monster.

There is video evidence of some unjustified murders a long with some attacks on military bases and personnel. There is ZERO physical evidence of rape and absolutely no video of such a thing from the attack on Oct 7. There is such video of Israelis raping innocent prisoners though.

You throw the accusation of rape in with the accusation of violence because you feel the need to create more atrocity propaganda to justify even a crumb of the horrors you support.

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cickin11@reddit

cause because you are an intellectually degraded monster.

Insults someone's intelligence but fails to understand basic principles of Evidence Law, typical egotistical redditor.

There is ZERO physical evidence of rape and absolutely no video of such a thing from the attack on Oct 7.

From a 1 minute search:

https://web.archive.org/web/20231204200541/https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/04/world/middleeast/oct-7-attacks-israel-hamas-sexual-violence.html/

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/26/world/middleeast/hamas-hostage-sexual-assault.html

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/accounts-sexual-violence-hamas-attack-mount-justice-is-remote-israels-victims-2023-12-05/

There is a such thing as circumstantial evidence, and 99.99% of rape cases in every jurisdiction convict rapists based on inferences drawn from circumstantial evidence.

Imagine needing 'physical evidence' (real/direct evidence) to convict rapists. With your logic, we should be going around telling rape victims that their perpetrator should walk free because there isn't a video 🤷‍♂️.

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blueNgoldWarrior@reddit

And what specific individuals are you trying to convict for rape? Clearly that’s not what is happening here.

What is being attempted is the manifestation of systemic rape claims that are entirely unsubstantiated. And on top of that claiming there is physical evidence when there is none. I simply refuted that.

Additionally I made clear those claims are much more applicable to Israelis than Palestinian groups.

Thank you for displaying your lack of integrity and intelligence for us as well.

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cickin11@reddit

Based on your reply, I now know critical thinking skills is not an asset you have, so let me make things clearer so you can understand.

And what specific individuals are you trying to convict for rape? Clearly that’s not what is happening here. Umm... the rapists? Trying to find a State (Israel) or an Organisation (Hamas) guilty of committing rape is literally impossible, but we're not here to talk about international law, especially since you clearly know nothing about law . What is being attempted is the manifestation of systemic rape claims that are entirely unsubstantiated. Did you bother opening any of the links I've sent, or taking 10 minutes to fact check your claims? Here's a report only using evidence available without the help of Israel (because Israel has refused to cooperate with the investigation): https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/hrbodies/hrcouncil/sessions-regular/session56/a-hrc-56-crp-3.pdf Summary: War crime of rape and other forms of sexual violence 291. In relation to rape and other forms of sexual violence, the Commission concludes on reasonable grounds that perpetrators committed sexual violence on 7 October in southern Israel, including at the Nova festival, on road 232, at the Nahal Oz military outpost and at kibbutzim Re’im, Nir Oz and Kfar Aza.

And on top of that claiming there is physical evidence when there is none. I simply refuted that. Existence of "physical evidence" as in real evidence Here: https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/17/world/israel-investigates-sexual-violence-hamas/index.html

https://www.timesofisrael.com/graphic-report-details-new-evidence-of-rape-sexual-violence-during-october-7-rampage/

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-18/ty-article-magazine/witnesses-confessions-naked-dead-bodies-all-the-evidence-of-hamas-rape-on-oct-7/0000018e-f114-d92e-abfe-f77f7e3f0000

On Monday, UN-appointed independent experts said that “given the number of victims and the extensive premeditation and planning of the attacks”, mounting evidence of rapes and genital mutilation pointed to possible crimes against humanity. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/18/evidence-points-to-systematic-use-of-rape-by-hamas-in-7-october-attacks Israeli intelligence officials, experts and sources with direct knowledge of interrogation reports of captured Hamas fighters believe units that attacked were beforehand given a text that drew on a controversial and contested interpretation of traditional Islamic military jurisprudence, claiming that captives were “the spoils of war”. This potentially legitimised the abduction of civilians and other abuses, without being an explicit instruction to do so. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/18/evidence-points-to-systematic-use-of-rape-by-hamas-in-7-october-attacks In at least two unsourced videos of interrogations of alleged Hamas members, which Israeli officials say they did not authorise for release, the men are heard talking about instructions given to rape women. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/18/evidence-points-to-systematic-use-of-rape-by-hamas-in-7-october-attacks Here is why Israel doesn't release it on the internet: The Times said it was unable to obtain such images from government sources who cited victim privacy and the need to protect intelligence sources. https://forward.com/fast-forward/569283/rape-kits-forensic-evidence-oct-7-times-of-israel/ To simplify my previous point since you clearly don't understand:

1) In cases of rape, "physical evidence" is almost never available, not only for rape, but most crimes, real evidence means anything PHYSICAL, a video recording typical falls under real if it is used as evidence on its own; 1A) therefore, requiring physical evidence to believe a victim of rape is absurd my point from my first reply is repeated; and 2) direct and circumstantial evidence is mainly used to prove a criminal case, you are arguing that since there is a lack of "physical evidence", rape most likely did not occur (if I am wrong, go ahead and admit that Hamas raped Israeli civilians on Oct 7th during their massacre).

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blueNgoldWarrior@reddit

You haven’t provided anything new. You’re just spamming and repeating the same thing.

I have been very clear. I am not denying the possibility of rape occurring during an attack. I have made clear that the mass systematic rape claims are not supported, and need to be challenged when they are flaunted as some justification for Israels crimes. The evidence does not substantiate the picture that is trying to be painted.

Additionally much of what you cited references Israeli intelligence officials as the source. Israeli organizations such as Zaka have been proven to have lied extensively about many things they claim to have witnessed.

Most critically, it is the insinuation that there is physical evidence when there is none that is being brought to attention. That lie is intentional and it is absurd to suggest we should let that deception slide.

I want people to make assessments on what is truly available. You clearly do not care about the truth here. You are intentionally contributing to this dishonesty because you support the horrors done by Israel and will run cover for that no matter what.

Critical thinking results in seeing through the attempts at misdirection to arrive at what is actually available to form an understanding off of. A lack of critical thinking would be accepting the Israeli narrative with no challenge.

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roydez@reddit

Moral vacuum is calling one side rapist while overlooking the other one when it commits rape much more frequently and systematically and their rapists become local tv celebrities.

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EH1987@reddit

You are the perfect example of why I have nothing but contempt for you and your cause.

Why? Because they addressed your speculation in a reasonable mannen rather than losing their temper and started launching insults?

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Carlos-_-Danger@reddit

I think you are confusing two posters for the same person...

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sneakyfoodthief@reddit

According to Gaza's health ministry, 10 infants doctors and 10 pregnant women were killed in the attack. ... No wait, this time Hamas is doing the killing, so we can assume that all "suspects" are 100% guilty and deserve to be publicly executed on the street.

What happened? yesterday comments here were saying people are starving and are desprete for food when Israel was in the headline, but now when it's Hamas suddenly kneecapping people in the street is a good thing?

C'mon - even if you hate Israel with all your little hearts and believe it should be destroyed - Hamas is still an authoritarian "government" that (as many of you guys LOVE to say) - hasn't held elections for over 15 years. them executing their own people in the streets for being suspects isn't "good".

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SaneForCocoaPuffs@reddit

Hamas shoots Palestinians: “suspected profiteers and looters”

Israel shoots Palestinians: “Palestinians, the Gaza Health Ministry does not distinguish between militants and civilians”

Remember: if Israel shoots someone they must be an innocent civilian who has done nothing wrong, and if Hamas does it they are definitely an evil looter and thief who profits off stolen aid.

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eightNote@reddit

But the actual narrative in both cases is that if a Gazan got shot, they must have deserved it in some way.

if Israel shoots someone they must be an innocent civilian who has done nothing wrong

This is not the media narrative

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seventuplets@reddit

The IDF doesn't know the difference between civilians and militants either.

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tallzmeister@reddit (OP)

Oh here we go with the self-victimisation and crocodile tears even while committing daily war crimes and (very arguably) actual genocide

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xToasted1@reddit

Amazing how they can commit so many war crimes live and still call themselves the victim. "Hamas made us shoot this random Palestinian civilian! Trust 🙏"

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Latter_Security9389@reddit

Oh man, what kind of sick people steal essential aid from their own people that too during a humanitarian crisis. Let's hope the government distributed the aid among people after the operation, almost 100 trucks is a lot of aid.

Why with all these family feuds and crime families in Palestinian? I saw there was infighting among some families in Palestinian Israelis.