Aborted takeoff AITAH
Posted by EwanWhoseArmy@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 90 comments
So in the uk but not massively relevant
Airfield is what we call A/G uncontrolled but you do inconsistently have someone manning the radio giving basic spot winds and QNH/FE and any known traffic that could effect but can’t tell you to do anything so uncontrolled
Anyway was lining up after calling departing, about 10 seconds later some guy called downwind for glide approach right when I hit the beans . 5 seconds later realised that despite the world outside moving the ASI claimed I was doing 0 knots so aborted , called the abort and coasted to the end of the runway as the strip only had one exit midway down which is grass and closed due to rainfall with traffic cones
The guy doing the glide went around at the last minute and started yelling down the radio that I ruined his approach
Pretty sure it was my runway and he has ages to go around
RBR927@reddit
NTA
Safety comes first, you did the right thing aborting the takeoff with an inop airspeed indicator. Pilots should always be ready to go around, no matter the cause.
Hugh__Jarse@reddit
My instructor always told me you’re flying an approach to a go around, landing is just a bonus
mursilissilisrum@reddit
I'm up for a BFR in a little while. Definitely going to be some invisible coyotes on the runway that only my instructor can see.
dsanders692@reddit
Yep. My instructor's attitude was "every approach is going to be a go-around until proven otherwise"
_toodamnparanoid_@reddit
Also an aborted takeoff is an emergency by definition: an emergent situation has occurred which is top priority.
mursilissilisrum@reddit
Poor baby. Maybe he should go to a private field.
Outside_Birthday_901@reddit
Your runway at the time. Doesn't mater if you abort or use every cm of the runway to TO. That's your runway until you clear it
Captain_Cuzza@reddit
You made a command decision for the safety of flight.
Sounds like you would have had plenty of spacing if you had decided to go but these things happen. Not your fault and from what you’ve written you’ve done everything correct and it’s just an unlucky situation for the other aircraft
Chicago_Blackhawks@reddit
Wouldn’t deciding to go have been really risky without an accurate airspeed? Only visually referencing V1/V2 sounds like a recipe for disaster
Captain_Cuzza@reddit
In a light aircraft you don’t fly v1/v2. The accuracy is less important as generally you are less performance critical but depending on the experience level of the pilot, setting the correct power and attitude plus recognising the appropriate nose position on the horizon would give you the correct speed without an ASI.
But many people have stalled on final or even base to final turn with ASIs working in their aircraft so it just not a safety risk you could justify taking into the air as PIC if you found it on the ground
Chicago_Blackhawks@reddit
Makes sense, thanks!!
EwanWhoseArmy@reddit (OP)
Thought so I crossed the stop bar and called before he reported downwind
As it’s uncontrolled and can get busy there is sort of an unofficial rule that you do glides from the overhead not from downwind
vtjohnhurt@reddit
What do you mean by 'glides'? Does this mean landing with the engine idling?
EwanWhoseArmy@reddit (OP)
Yeah a glide approach you come in on idle from around 2,000 agl to simulate a forced landing
bhalter80@reddit
Even if he was on base and you normally could have departed safely you were good to go. Once you're on the runway he should be planning a go-around since it's not just you it's winds, it's wildlife, it's children, etc.. that will force him to break off.
I was flying home one night, announced, heard a Lear on approach self-announce, I landed, I taxied to parking and was tying down the plane when I heard the Lear go around .... why? they didn't click the lights on after I landed and the timer went off and they lost lighting close to the runway. Point is go-arounds happen and that one probably cost more than every go-around I've ever done
Captain_Cuzza@reddit
If in doubt in the future consider how it would stand up in a court. As PIC you would have to be the one to justify it.
“I took a U/S aircraft into the air and (potentially) crashed because I didn’t want to cause the ops normal training aircraft to go around for a slight delay to their day”
sounds worse than
“I did and RTO and was safe, the training aircraft did a routine go around.”
Some people think they own the sky and unfortunately they are who get people killed…
Brave_Truth1900@reddit
NTA, plain and simple, it’s your runway as long as you are on it and need it. Or if you want to throw the book at it, the lower aircraft has the right of way. Additional as mentioned before an aborted take off is an emergency and there you have two reasons on your side. It’s this guys problem to keep proper separation. He kept it tight but wasn’t ready to deal with unforeseen circumstances.
wt1j@reddit
What's a glide approach? Glider? Power off 180?
thrfscowaway8610@reddit
The latter.
DearChinaFuckYou@reddit
Ahh the old forgotten pitot tube cover. You’ll only make that mistake once.
thrfscowaway8610@reddit
Or the old "insect splatted itself against the opening of the pitot tube," which also disables the ASI quite effectively.
CessnaBandit@reddit
UK here too. Plenty of that crap over the radio at Air/Ground fields. He should’ve been prepared to go around if the runway was occupied, glide approach or normal approach. If anyone gives abuse over the radio it’s usually some old guy who’s a danger to everyone around them
EwanWhoseArmy@reddit (OP)
My pet hate is using A/G as a general chat as there isn’t a controller or a FISO to yell at you
Trying to call final with 2 aircraft waiting only to have someone ask if Bob is indeed flying that helicopter drives me mad
CessnaBandit@reddit
I had a guy fly head on towards me the wrong way around the circuit while he was asking the guy in the tower about his holiday
EwanWhoseArmy@reddit (OP)
I used to fly from Wellesbourne and there is a rumour that once James May did that
thrfscowaway8610@reddit
Headcorn in Kent used to be hell open to sinners. Haven't been in there for a while, so I don't know if they've cleaned up their act. But that was a place where you needed your head on a swivel at all times, in three dimensions.
Ambitious_Boat_9148@reddit
Your runway until you’re clear. Other guy needs to relax.
LondonPilot@reddit
NTA.
As everyone else said… but with the added context that I’m a former instructor/examiner in the UK, I did my PPL at an airfield with A/G, and I’m very familiar with all peculiarities of UK flying including A/G radio - and nothing anyone else has said here is any way affected by the kind of radio service that is provided at the airport.
EwanWhoseArmy@reddit (OP)
Maybe if there was atc then he would have been ordered to go around after I called stopping so it’s less discretionary
voretaq7@reddit
ATC would have almost certainly cancelled a landing clearance unless you also called your exit taxiway in your abort & they trusted you to make it.
LondonPilot@reddit
In the UK, ATC are not even allowed to issue a landing clearance while the runway is occupied or while someone else is cleared to use it (with one exception - a “land after” clearance - which is not relevant in this scenario).
Jwylde2@reddit
ASI inop isn’t a reason to reject a takeoff. I would’ve taken off, flown the pattern, then landed full stop.
EchoKiloEcho1@reddit
You’d takeoff without knowing your airspeed? You sure about that?
Jwylde2@reddit
Yep
EchoKiloEcho1@reddit
Well aren’t you an extra cool pylote? Fuck them FAA rules, man, what do they know?
Jwylde2@reddit
As I said…I’d take off, but I’d fly a lap in the pattern and land full stop. My flying would be done once I’m on the ground.
What are you gonna do if you lose your ASI in flight? What’s another way you can land a plane without chasing and fixating on the ASI (which you shouldn’t be doing anyway)?
EchoKiloEcho1@reddit
What is your rationale for taking off when there is runway available to abort? Aborting seems like 100% the safer option - choosing to takeoff is a completely unnecessary risk.
And no, I don’t fixate on the ASI. But I use it most heavily for takeoffs because you’re in a climb attitude and speed is pretty critical there. Could I successfully takeoff and land without an ASI? Probably. Would I choose to do so when I have the perfectly good option of aborting? Of course not.
Thanks for being more civil than I was, by the way, I appreciate you.
EwanWhoseArmy@reddit (OP)
It’s risk management, below say 40-50 knots it’s probably safer to abort than take a problem into the air
If you are close to rotation speed then sure
voretaq7@reddit
Counterpoint: "Airspeed alive" is waaaaaaay below rotation speed, so you shouldn't get near a speed where you can't stop before you catch it & call the abort. 😁
voretaq7@reddit
An operative airspeed indicator is absolutely required for all operations in the US, so it's absolutely a reason to reject takeoff. I assume it's the same in the UK.
Only reason not to reject the takeoff is if it's unsafe to do so, which in OP's case it was not: They had sufficient stopping distance & weren't going off the end of the runway.
LifeisInevitable@reddit
What a dreadful idea
McDrummerSLR@reddit
That guy can go pound sand. You did the right thing.
VanDenBroeck@reddit
Hit the beans?
EwanWhoseArmy@reddit (OP)
Floor it Hit the gas Shove the black lever forwards Pedal to the floor
VanDenBroeck@reddit
Huh, 45 years in aviation and never heard that term. Never too old to learn.
voretaq7@reddit
Oi, you ain't 'alf Bri'ish are ya m8?
voretaq7@reddit
"Advance the throttle with alacrity!"
voretaq7@reddit
You are never the asshole for a safety-of-flight abort. Inoperative airspeed is absolutely an abort situation.
Moreover I don't know how it is in the UK but in the USA once you are on the runway you own that runway. If you need to abort you do so & clear as soon as safely able, but if someone else needs to go around or tower needs to cancel landing clearances that's on them. your job is the safe conduct (or abort) of your flight!
SSMDive@reddit
You had zero airspeed and aborted and someone was upset???? This a serious question? YOU HAD ZERO AIRSPEED!!!! Screw that guy.
AWACS_Bandog@reddit
you own the runway while you're on it, so, fuck em
BandicootNo4431@reddit
NTA
You called it, it was up to him to make a safe decision at that point.
The only thing that "might" have been shitty is coasting. If you aren't using the runway then safely but expeditiously GTFO the runway. You weren't having an engine emergency, so give'er a little gas and exit at the next exit.
EwanWhoseArmy@reddit (OP)
Well 30knts judging by the gps ground speed
BandicootNo4431@reddit
That's fine then, I wouldn't call that coasting
EwanWhoseArmy@reddit (OP)
Yeah I meant I just chopped the power and rolled to the end without using the brakes
I even avoided using the term stopping as I thought that would infer I had a fire or something and would stop on the runway
stubborn_fence_post@reddit
Not shitty at all. You just aborted, adrenaline is up, and with an INOP Airspeed, you do NOT want to give it a little too much gas and end up making the situation worse.
_--_--_-_--_--_@reddit
NTA. That's what you are supposed to do when the ASI fails.
EwanWhoseArmy@reddit (OP)
I have bad luck with the things years back same thing happened at a controlled airport outside of London with loads of Gulfstreams, BBJs etc coming in for the olympics (cheaper parking than the usual spots)
Called abort then and then heard the ATCO give the Go Around standard missed report at the hold to this G4
Afterwards saw it parked with the Gasprom logo on the tail and didn’t feel bad
_--_--_-_--_--_@reddit
What turned out to be the reason of the ASI failure in both cases BTW?
EwanWhoseArmy@reddit (OP)
First one was a C172 and the maintenance guy found a dead bug or something in the tube
Second one apparently a fault on the actual instrument
vtjohnhurt@reddit
At my field, we have ground bees called 'mud daubers' that plug up static/pitot tubes with mud. They crawl into the tube so the port looks fine during preflight inspection.
EwanWhoseArmy@reddit (OP)
Similar to what I had
Working theory is someone forgot the sock at some point and then the bug got shifted and ended up causing a blockage
When I preflighted it the sock was on and the blockage was not visible from outside (it was where the body of the tube enters the wing structure if you know 172s)
SpartanDoubleZero@reddit
NTA, you didn’t have airspeed alive indicated, I would have absolutely aborted as well. Hell it’s in my take off briefing, if my airspeed isn’t alive by the 1,000 foot markers I’m aborting, if I’m not off the ground by the mid field point, I’m aborting, if my engine stutters or I’m unable to get full power, I’m aborting, if something feel extremely wrong and inconsistent compared to every other take off I’m aborting. I’m not going flying when there’s potentially something wrong that’s out of my control that I know about.
Thegerbster2@reddit
I do find it interesting that those without flying experience (including myself before I learnt to fly) generally view the landing as the most dangerous phase of flight, but for a proficient pilot it is absolutely the takeoff. Landings are usually more a relief that everything has gone to plan heh
OtterVA@reddit
NTA.
Patapon80@reddit
What? You took the runway while he was on downwind. It's YOUR runway. NTA.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong here but you could've sat on that runway for 5 minutes and not moved and totally ruined his approach, but it's still YOUR runway. You might've been a bit of an AH for doing so in this example, but it's still YOUR runway.
Thegerbster2@reddit
I think there would be an argument that you were operating unsafely if you entered the runway and just sat there for several minutes, technically yes they wouldn't be allowed to land but that doesn't mean what you're doing is legal heh. But in OP's case absolutely, it was his runway and he did everything he was supposed to.
AOA001@reddit
Who cares what he thinks.
burningtowns@reddit
Not the AH.
flyguy42@reddit
"I didn't ruin your approach, I gave you an opportunity to practice a go around"
Then shut off the radio. 😆
avgaskoolaid@reddit
He's the asshole. What were you supposed to do, take off with a potentially dead ASI? Plus, he was on downwind when you started your roll- it's not like you cut him off or anything (and even if you did, nobody should ever force a plane into the air out of fear of causing a fuss).
Had a similar situation where I realized during my takeoff roll on a grass strip there was no way I was going to get airborne in time to stay out of the trees (3 hefty passengers in a 172B on a hot day. Dumb move to even try.) I aborted and had to back taxi, but there was a guy behind me who had just turned onto base. He went around, asked if everything was ok, and proceeded to land normally 5 minutes later.
EwanWhoseArmy@reddit (OP)
Oh that’s got to be awkward if their vip asks why they aborted “we forgot to turn on the lights”
DemonBoss222@reddit
Assuming you're also based at EGCJ from the flair? That airfield is manic at the best of times so you absolutely did the right thing by aborting, no point taking it up and risking your safety if the traffic behind had full capability to go around, one more circuit won't hurt them.
EwanWhoseArmy@reddit (OP)
It wasn’t EGCJ but yes I am based there
WildPineappleEnigma@reddit
I can’t believe you even feel the need to ask.
On every takeoff, I say aloud (even if I’m solo), “Airspeed alive. Engine green.” It’s not just for fun.
I’ve aborted takeoffs at that point in two occasions. Once, ASI hadn’t reached Vr by intended rotation spot. Then when I aborted, it took several minutes to return to zero. Another, just out of annual, the tach failed during the takeoff roll.
A little inconvenience for him or a potential disaster for you. Easy choice.
PiedPiper_80@reddit
Sherburn? Always was like the Wild West up there. Last time I flew in there, a guy tried cutting me off while I was on final and then complained that I made him go missed 🙄
EwanWhoseArmy@reddit (OP)
Cutting on base to final on 28 is playing with fire there with that smelter thing that upgases
Although I did see someone fly through the condensate cloud out of the Draz cooling towers once
PiedPiper_80@reddit
Yes I remember it being crazy close to the approach. Wouldn’t want to get caught in that thing especially on final.
fireandlifeincarnate@reddit
You could abort based purely on vibes and unless he’s in a glider he can suck it up.
EwanWhoseArmy@reddit (OP)
Yup I was always to expect a go around. Comes into the carb heat argument (I turn it off on short final in case I need to hit the throttle)
ThatSillyGinge@reddit
What was the alternative? Takeoff without any ASI and risk your own life?
The guy doing glide approaches is simulating emergencies, not experiencing a real one, and so gets no priority whatsoever. The runway is yours for as long as you need it for safety.
BostonCEO@reddit
Yes. You ruined my glide.
EwanWhoseArmy@reddit (OP)
Unless you are a space shuttle I am sure you can go around for another day
bryan2384@reddit
TIL what NTA means.
NTA, period.
troll__face@reddit
I still dont know.
NPBoss18@reddit
Was your runway to abuse. He can be butthurt all he wants. NTA
BigFatAbacus@reddit
NTA. Right decision taken.
Tell him to fuck off.
cjonesaf@reddit
You aren’t wrong for a safety-related abort decision. Dont let some clown who probably flies once a year make you question yourself. You did the right thing.
Flightyler@reddit
People behind you don’t really matter. If you abort you abort don’t care what they think about it. That being said they do matter if they’re on short final and you decide to take the runway from them lol
LS788@reddit
Absolutely NTA in any circumstance, the guy was just being a dick for no reason
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
So in the uk but not massively relevant
Airfield is what we call A/G uncontrolled but you do inconsistently have someone manning the radio giving basic spot winds and QNH/FE and any known traffic that could effect but can’t tell you to do anything so uncontrolled
Anyway was lining up after calling departing, about 10 seconds later some guy called downwind for glide approach right when I hit the beans . 5 seconds later realised that despite the world outside moving the ASI claimed I was doing 0 knots so aborted , called the abort and coasted to the end of the runway as the strip only had one exit midway down which is grass and closed due to rainfall with traffic cones
The guy doing the glide went around at the last minute and started yelling down the radio that I ruined his approach
Pretty sure it was my runway and he has ages to go around
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