Why is little Britain seen as more controversial/offensive than other similar shows from the same time?

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Cult-Film-Fan-999@reddit

It Ain't Have Hot Mum is generally seen by many as offensive. This is probably why it doesn't get repeated as often as Dad's Army.

Bottom was deemed offensive from the outset. It was the show your Mother didn't like. But it's not offensive like LB was. It's more kind of bawdy almost.

Is the Mighty Boosh offensive? Like The League of Gentleman, I think it's been misinterpreted when compared to some other shows.

Harry Enfield however, there are a some sketches that wouldn't cut it nowadays (though they aren't as egregious as LB). A lot of Enfields shows seem to have been forgotten a bit, many early ones have no DVD release, so perhaps this explains why?

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greatdrams23@reddit

It Ain't Have Hot Mum is playing this very minute.

Why do people keep saying TV programs are banned when they are not?

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Cult-Film-Fan-999@reddit

Well, it's usually right wing culture war types complaining about something incorrectly. But you're right, it's not banned. But it gets repeated a lot less compared to Dad's Army. I saw most of DA as a child but I had to seek out IAHHM on DVD to watch it.

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CatGrrrl_@reddit (OP)

Didn’t really know about it aint half hot mum being offensive, but tbf I don’t know anyone else who’s seen it. I can definitely see why dads army is shown more tho.

Bottom honestly doesn’t seem that bad to me but I can see why I few bits might not be made today. Generally doesn’t seem that bad tho

I’ve heard a few people saying boosh is bad but I didn’t think it was too bad? There was some jokes in it that definitely shouldn’t be made again tho. In general the show was just too mad to be offensive lol

I actually think a lot of Harry Enfield has been cut out, I watched all of it on TV (all of it I could find anyway), but there was definitely a lot of segments missing that I’d already seen on YouTube. Might’ve just confused it w the fast show tho lol.

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Key-Experience-1667@reddit

Bottom was laughing at the characters. They’re pathetic losers that are the butt of the joke.

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MeGlugsBigJugs@reddit

They’re pathetic losers

asmeile@reddit

didnt Howard have sex with a fox and wasnt it something like the fox ghosted him

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Eayauapa@reddit

"there were rumours, I'm not sure what they were"

"It was that you were bumming him."

"Stupid, childish rumours. Whatever they were-"

"IT WAS THAT YOU WERE BUMMING HIM"

Later on in the same episode

"Morning, Jack."

"Nah. You stay away from me, alright?"

So either he was bumming the fox or the fox just fucking hated him for no reason, honestly I'd believe both given how that show went.

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wildskipper@reddit

Ain't half hot mum was widely considered offensive by people in the 90s too. It was barely ever repeated and that has continued. It's only really remembered because it was offensive. Contrast that with others like Dad's Army that were just cherished.

This is exactly it. They were mocking the people who were offensive. The people who made themselves victims. The people who made themselves martyrs. All the hidden (and not so hidden) stupidity. And those who were racist, sexist etc.

The only gay in the village was hilarious being someone who made himself a victim, a not minority minority, in a village that was totally accepting and extremely gay. The bit where he does the tortured confession to his Mum who replies "to be honest love, we did have a bit of an inkling" whilst ironing ridiculous fetish gear was hilarious.

I actually AM a transvestite (and a gay, although definitely NOT the only one in the village) and I laughed at Emily because she did everything possible to make herself stand out AS a transvestite. She put herself in ridiculous scenarios. On the few occasions I have been out dressed femme, I certainly don't say "I'm a lady" in a terrible falsetto or dress like it's the 1950s. She wasn't TRYING to fit in but wanted everyone to treat her like a lady. And Matt with the 'tache was an even bigger level of ridiculous. There are plenty of crossdressers and transvestites out and about day to day. Few people notice because they try to fit in. Dressing like women tend to dress. Plus, most people are phone zombies now anyway, so they tend not to look at other humans.

Also, the nice face, nasty mind people... Like the racist WI woman making cakes for charity and being all lovely except......

They mocked the idiotic stereotypes that people held and still hold. They mocked those who sought offence where it wasn't intended. They mocked the mean, the selfish, the greedy, the stupid. And all in a totally over the top way, which just made it funnier.

The fact that Lenny Henry goes on TV and says blackface is abhorrent doesn't make it so. There will inevitably be plenty of black people who enjoyed Little Britain and weren't concerned about it.

The fact that someone has easy access to the media doesn't give them the right to set the agenda for an entire demographic of people.

It's like David Baddiel trying to ban Tottenham fans from using the term "yid army". Jewish Tottenham fans have used that name for decades, just because he finds it offensive and he can get himself on Channel 4 news doesn't make his feelings any more valuable than the next Jewish Tottenham fan.

I think it's good we're having this debate and it's really important but we need to not lose sight of the fact that there is a whole world of difference between telling a joke that might upset someone and actively trying to hurt someone's feelings.

Making fun of our friends is an important aspect of our culture and we run the risk of losing that if we're not careful.

If I make a joke and it genuinely upsets someone I will always apologise and make it clear that it is never my intention to hurt someone's feelings but trying to police what people can and can't joke about is a very dangerous and slippery slope.

If you're going down that route you should really be working in the entertainment industry because there's nothing worse than people who get on their soapbox at the slightest sniff of an offensive joke, who then sneer at mainstream comics like Michael McIntyre and John Bishop for being safe and boring.

You can't have it both ways.

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tvbeth@reddit

Intent is a huge part of it. The intent was to mock the people with the stereotype. That it came to be seen by.... Let's say those whose lifts don't go all the way to the top... As confirming their stereotypes and their bias is unfortunate, but they've always said that wasn't the intent.

People complain that Matt Lucas was saying that all the stereotyped characters were fat. It shouldn't be necessary to point out that at the time, Matt Lucas was indeed very fat. It would be somewhat difficult for him to play anything else!

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Piggstein@reddit

Ok now justify https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m_Q5dSbBczE

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Emilythatglitters@reddit

You started off by saying LB mocks the offensive bigots but then went on to give two examples where the LB characters are extreme, incorrect stereotypes of minorities.

Emily Howard is particularly bad because the character is essentially a realisation of common incorrect assumptions about trans people.

Possibly you could argue that is the point but the result for the general public watching is that it reinforces incorrect stereotypes and prejudices they already have.

That's the issue I think with LB. Yes many of the characters are essentially mocking bigots but for a lot of the general public at the time they would not necessarily cotton on to that and instead would unironically repeat the dialogue in public.

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tvbeth@reddit

Yes. It was meant to make it look stupid. And by extension, those who hold such prejudices to look stupid. And it did. Just not with 100% of people. Because there's literally nothing 100% of people agree on.

And Emily Howard was always described as a transvestite (and a rubbish one at that) not transsexual or transgender for that reason. I think the issue there is that much of the public didn't actually know the difference. Many still don't. And refuse to learn. There was an assumption people would know it was a fetish thing. An assumption that was probably wrong. As I said before, I am a transvestite and for me it was perfectly clear. Same for my friends because they know about me but it's much harder to mock the Ignorant when they don't actually know.... or care that they are in fact, ignorant.

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CranberryWizard@reddit

If you make a show with racial stereotypes in it, to the point that genuine bigots then go on to copy, your intentions then are a bit pointless, aren't they.

You have still added racism to the world

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matomo23@reddit

Most of the replies in this thread seem to think that. I don’t know how you can think that sketch you’ve mentioned isn’t mocking HER.

It’s bizarre how some people interpret things and get all offended.

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XihuanNi-6784@reddit

Personally I don't fully buy this interpretation. 'Lampshading' is absolutely a thing that can be used to excuse bigotry. Being openly offensive for shock value, because you're "taking the piss out of people who do it sincerely" has long been a way to just be openly offensive. Many people do it and don't have the self awareness to realise that that's what they're doing. But the effect is the same. Personally, I never felt the satire was anywhere near clear enough to cut through. If it genuinely is satire, then it was piss poor stuff even then, and age has not improved it.

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worotan@reddit

It’s bizarre if you ignore what they’re actually saying and retreat behind one example you can defend.

I was in my late 20s when it was on TV. It was a nasty programme that was disliked by a lot of people. Acting like it was simple entertainment that has been misinterpreted is the same disagreement now, that was being had back then.

Despite the attempts to make it seem like political correctness gone mad. Another joke from before this, from a comedy that took the mickey out of people who make your kind of comment.

Conservatives have been complaining about people pointing out how nasty and divisive their programmes are for 40+ years.

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Ashrod63@reddit

The problem fundamentally is that people are stupid. "Why don't people realise this is satire" works both ways and if you've been on the recieving end of harassment because some dickhead watched Little Britain and made your life hell at school because of it, you aren't going to have a positive view of the show as an adult. It was used as a source of racist, homophobic and ableist attacks for years on end because people didn't realise they were the joke and thought the show was backing them up and that became its legacy.

We've seen the same pattern time and time again, Little Britain was just the one on the air when people finally started figuring it out.

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Emergency_Driver_421@reddit

Alf Garnett from the sitcom ‘Til Death Do Us Part was supposed to be seen as a rediculous racist. It backfired, as many Britons enthusiastically took his side…

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worotan@reddit

We've seen the same pattern time and time again, Little Britain was just the one on the air when people finally started figuring it out.

No, we already knew that. You seem to have ignored 20 years of alternative comedy wiping out that kind of comedy on tv while their opponents brayed ‘it’s political correctness gone mad’.

For exactly the reason that you give. That’s one of the reasons Little Britain is so looked down on. Every so often, Sun readers try and tell each other loudly the modern version of ‘it’s political correctness gone mad’, and get shut down by everyone else.

Look at the

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purpleplums901@reddit

The blackface obviously isn’t a good look at all. And the Andy and Lou characters I can see why people are offended on the basis that it does reinforce the idea that people are pretending to be disabled to claim benefits. I don’t think much of the rest of it is particularly offensive though. The crappy hypnotist, Dafydd Thomas, computer says no and fat fighters were all decent gags first time round. Very repetitive eventually. But about 90% of it wasn’t and probably still isn’t offensive. That’s not enough now though for a lot of people. The ‘I heard you’re a racist now father’ episode of father ted, where ted is made to look like an utter twat for the entire half hour, is seen as offensive enough to have a warning on whatever 4od is called today so who knows

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Pizzagoessplat@reddit

That's what I get from it.

There were characters that I can relate to. My best friend was Dafydd and everyone went to school with a Vicky Pollard in the late 90's

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Lox_Ox@reddit

What about the blackface of Desiree? I'm not sure where that is mocking racists

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IhaveaDoberman@reddit

Whether it was intended or not, the larger effect was giving the moron bigots a laugh and giving them cheap jokes and ammunition.

The people that understood the mockery, with the exception of the odd sketch found it largely unfunny and in poor taste.

So it's really either a total backfiring failure, or a show that used a "message" as an excuse to make cheap and shit jokes.

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Spirited_Praline637@reddit

The people who don’t get it are very often the ones who will try to call it out, partly as a fight back.

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NeverCadburys@reddit

The problem with this, though, is that people used the guy in the wheelchair and the carer as proof, somehow, that disabled people are faking being disabled. Especially ambulatory wheelchair users. It didn't feel like the joke was on the characters, the "joke" was that all people who can move their legs, all fat people in wheelchairs especially, were just faking it and we could all secretly run around and commit petty theft or whatever when the carers were looking away. And unfortunately those references haven't phased out as much as the other ones.

And, I've been on a few forums over the years and FB groups when they came up, and i'd say it's an 80/20 estimated split where disabled people with a variety of disabilities talk about their experiences of calling out the offense and damage towards the disability communites during the air time so the idea that it's only now people think oh, that's a bit wrong, isn't true. The other 20% didn't find it offensive, don't find it offensive now, and don't see the damage or never experienced LB inspired abuse off the back of the show.

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decentlyfair@reddit

I always took it that way too.

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Bodkinmcmullet@reddit

This is the one sketch which I think still actually stands up

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Accurate_Prompt_8800@reddit

Little Britain was hugely popular and a lot more mainstream, appealing to a wide audience (including children and families, mind) because of its its catchphrases and accessibility.

This has resulted in more scrutiny now because it in some ways it shaped so many people’s sense of humour at the time.

Shows like The Mighty Boosh had a far more niche, alternative audience, which in a way has shielded them from receiving the same criticism.

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It is ridiculous but, as a brown person, is also reality. It’s happened to me. I used to watch little Britain and found it funny. But that’s because we were taught it was normal and ok to have the piss taken out of us. I hate watching it now.

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Logical_Tank4292@reddit

Let's not pretend that us British Asians didn't have our own way of taking the piss out of ourselves, with the likes of Goodness Gracious Me and Citizen Khan.

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SuzLouA@reddit

I’ve never seen Citizen Khan, but I was a huge fan of GGM in the 90s, and watched a bit recently

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Jaxxftw@reddit

It’s not a rip on POC though, it’s literally a rip on racists. The point is to ridicule a behaviour we all agree is absolutely absurd, how can you make fun of it if it’s not written into the character?

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CheesecakeExpress@reddit

Yes I understand that, but lots of people didn’t see it in that way. Many POC experience actual racism that is very similar to the jokes on little Britain and, I bet, to those making racists jokes they were able to distinguish or didn’t want to.

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FunCaterpillar128@reddit

You can’t blame the comedy if someone chooses to use a catchphrase from a show to be racist to you. That’s them choosing to insult you and finding a convenient way to do so. Stereotypes are funny. The vast majority can take them as satirical.

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CheesecakeExpress@reddit

Well I guess this is where we disagree, I don’t think all stereotypes are always funny. I think stereotypes can be harmful.

I also think it’s damaging to grow up and the only real representation you see of people who look like you is stereotyping and piss taking. This is much better now, and I really feel if this stuff was acceptable we would still see it in the mainstream today, which we don’t. For a good reason, in my view.

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FunCaterpillar128@reddit

I never said all stereotypes. Apu for example, was never done in a hugely degrading or mean spirited way. It was poking fun at cultural differences that were exaggerated to be humorous. All the Simpsons characters were a stereotype of people. The fact you find it “piss taking” is because you put a negative intention into it. My family are Scots, I find Groundskeeper Willy hilarious. I don’t take it as some deep insult to my heritage because I don’t have a stick up my arse. And this attitude is why comedy has been rinsed of anything that could be perceived as risky. If someone is going to be racist towards you, taking Apu off the Simpsons isn’t going to magically change that.

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CheesecakeExpress@reddit

There is a difference between racism and jokes. I do t mind people taking the piss/having banter, I do mind racism. That isn’t having a stick up my arse.

Many, many people find Apu to be offensive as a character too.

Are you a POC?

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FunCaterpillar128@reddit

Racism would be coming from the point of trying to portray him in a hugely negative way. He’s portrayed as a hard working immigrant and (was) a very popular character. They make a few cheeky jokes about cultural differences. Oh the horror!!

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CheesecakeExpress@reddit

Jaxxftw@reddit

Again, the joke includes mention of minorities but is not about them. We’ve come a long way as a society since the 90’s and this discussion is proof of that.

It is worth noting though - and I’m not trying to diminish your experience because it’s shit that you have to have gone through what you did - but whatever made you “different” will have been always been the first thing used to bully you: too short, too tall, too fat, red hair, pale skin, dark skin etc. Bullies will use anything that stands out. Unfortunately race is tied much closer to ideas of self/identity and it’ll cut very deeply. I can only hope your experiences growing up were mostly people simply being dicks than being actual racists.

Either way, it’s shit that it happened and it shouldn’t. I don’t know what the answer to societies problems are aside from not being a racist and calling it out when you see it.

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CheesecakeExpress@reddit

The problem is the jokes were about the minorities if you viewed them in that way, which some people would.

I’m not talking necessarily about explicit bullying. I’m talking about friends and partners making ‘jokes’. And because it was normalised I felt I couldn’t say how uncomfortable it made me feel.

You're right some people are immune to irony and/or looking for excuses to be racist and they imitate this stuff or apply the joke seriously and it's a problem. We're better off without Little Britain bceause it's not that funny or clever, and it encuorages a load of idiotic jokes. But I'd bet my life the joke in that scene is meant to be "look how ridiculous this racist is" not "this is how you should feel if you eat food a non-white person has touched", like 100% that's meant to be the joke. The harm from it is clearly not the intent. It's meant to be stereotyping a certain type of racist white person, not PoC.

Little Britain guys even have actually stereotyped PoC people, including using brownface, in other stuff, just in that sketch it's definitely meant to be making fun of white racists, not PoC. Not like that one sketch clearly making fun of racists, not PoC, means there isn't any reason to criticse them.

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CheesecakeExpress@reddit

Yep I agree it was probably intended to take the piss out of racist. Unfortunately, in my experience (and that of others in this thread) it normalised ‘banter’ like this, which was commonplace at the time. I also question whether non-poc were really the best people to be making this content

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MMSTINGRAY@reddit

Agreed on both counts.

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yakisobagurl@reddit

100%. Having that stuff actively on tv keeps it common knowledge and normalises it for younger generations

I know that I saw stereotypes of stuff in programmes like Little Britain that I otherwise would’ve had no idea about

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CheesecakeExpress@reddit

Yep, I agree and this was very much my experience growing up

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Independent-Guess-79@reddit

I don’t think you’re grasping the core concept here.

If you see anyone being racist your reaction should be to find it ridiculous. It should be hilarious how childish and small minded it is and you should feel pity for that person not for yourself or the person the racist person is being racist towards.

Also, and this may be a step too far for your comprehension level, IF you feel bad towards the “victim” here, on some level you must agree with the racist person. You probably think something along the lines of “that poor (insert race here), they don’t deserve to be spoken to like that. It’s not their fault they’re (insert race here)”

When really, you should be thinking “that racist cunt is a bit of a racist…and a bit of a cunt”

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MMSTINGRAY@reddit

Also, and this may be a step too far for your comprehension level

Was there any need to say this? Maybe they don't remember the sketch details, maybe they have dealt with people using the punchline of that sketch unironically while they were at school, etc. They've already said that there have been people in their real life who reacted badly when they realised a non-white eperson touched their food. Them being wrong about the sketch doesn't mean you need to talk down to them, it's a dumb sketch.

You're 100% right the butt of the joke in that sketch is meant to be white racists, not PoC. But there is no need to be a dick about it.

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peppersunlightbutter@reddit

telling someone how she should be experiencing racism is so low

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Jaxxftw@reddit

Except they’re not, they’re explaining how the joke works.

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Leather_Let_2415@reddit

Agree to disagree, I don't think art should be censored in the uk.. apparently controversial

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beingthehunt@reddit

This is not really relevant but suggesting we have no censorship is wild. So you think we should have full blown porn and graphic violence on midday tv? Yeah that's pretty controversial.

Leather_Let_2415@reddit

Fair enough, we just disagree really.

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c0tch@reddit

Yeah the mighty boosh black face never really was offensive in my eyes. The voodoo jazz guy was perhaps caricature and I could see that but like the episodes with rudi I don’t think can be considered offensive or racist.

I agree, the mighty boosh is so far out there I don't think race even comes into it. I'm sure it was on at 2am on a Friday night because the BBC didn't know what to do with it.

PercyLives@reddit

Praise the lord for this hilarious character!

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kudincha@reddit

That's funny and I don't know why.

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Lox_Ox@reddit

One of the spa lady characters was also black -

Entire_Elk_2814@reddit

The racists in that sketch are the butt of the joke though. Just as the weight watchers woman is the butt in that sketch.

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Lox_Ox@reddit

And what about the spa ladies? (the character Desiree)

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Entire_Elk_2814@reddit

I’m not familiar with those characters tbh. I don’t particularly enjoy the show. I just understood where the humour was supposed to come from in the sketch I was talking about. From what I remember, a lot of comedians during this era were using language and doing things that were considered inappropriate at the time and for years before. The humour came from breaking taboos but also being so over the top or inappropriate that it was largely self deprecating.

I do have mixed feelings about this type of humour. I think a lot of people missed the point of the jokes and felt more at ease simply being racist or misogynist than they were prior to this brand of humour becoming popular. In that sense, it’s had a negative impact on society but I don’t blame the comedians, I blame the bellends that are racist and misogynistic.

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Kirstemis@reddit

But we're not supposed to like the vomiting bigots. We laugh because they're ridiculous.

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AlpsSad1364@reddit

Exactly. People getting upset at Little Britain must lack the mental capability to do second order thinking or see nuance.

Do they genuinely think that a TV show made 10 years ago was being openly racist? That wasn't acceptable in the 60s never mind the 2000s.

But we're not Americans who don't understand sarcasm and need everything explicitly spelled out for us. We don't need a disclaimer before that sketch saying "please note we are supposed to be laughing at the bigoted person". It's just obvious that that's the joke to anyone.

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GuestAdventurous7586@reddit

This also reminds me of Jerry Sadowitz. Who I’m a huge fan of. But his act is massively and openly racist, misogynistic, homophobic, and misanthropic.

Now that leads to genuine bigots going to his shows and taking it for face value. But, a significant portion of his audience are very liberal, artsy types who deplore any kind of bigotry.

The point of his act being not that you’re left thinking about whether the man on stage is racist or not, but whether you are racist and why are you laughing at the things you are.

I think that works on a much more profound and intelligent level though. But the Little Britain sketch almost approaches the same area of comedy but stops short of actually exploring any further or deeper.

Honestly, at least with that the joke is ‘this lady is a racist and being racist is bad’. You might argue it’s not funny but it’s not being mean-spirited towards the minorities, the butt of the joke is clearly the racist white woman, and trying to argue this as an example of Little Britain being racist is imo harmful to your case.

In the little Britain sketch we’re laughing at David’s character for having such an objectionable reaction, not the Asian woman. IMO it’s fine, it’s punching up at white middle class women.

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cgknight1@reddit

Little Britain ran from 2003-2006, It ain’t Half Hot Mum ran from 1974-1981.

PangolinMandolin@reddit

It's so weird how something can be progressive for it's time, rightly praised for that progressiveness, but then 20 years go by and people start criticising it for being backwards.

Something that's decades old will never be able to live up to modern standards, so it shouldn't be judged by modern standards imho.

I'll give an extreme example. I read julius caesar campaigns in Gaul and Britain. The foreward explained that in roman times the legions would wipe out the entire local population if they met resistance. Caesar was "progressive" for the time because he would only enslave a bunch of the population and take child hostages of the local leaders to ensure compliance. If he had to wipe them out then he would, but ultimately, his aim to largely keep the barbarian tribes alive was progressive. No one is going to defend slavery or stealing children, nor would we praise Caesar for those actions today, yet we can recognise that it was an improvement on what came before

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TrainingVegetable949@reddit

This is sort of down to if you are into moral absolutism or relativism.

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PangolinMandolin@reddit

Exactly, half the arguments around this kind of thing you see are people who don't realise they are arguing for one of those two standpoints

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Nerhtal@reddit

I’m feeling ignorant here, how different are those viewpoints, it feels like absolutism is broad strokes taking current moral known values and applying them absolutely to everything now and in the past (and ideally into the future but we know that those values will change because… well they just do as we grow as a species)

Relativism is being able to look at things relatively (like saying that at the time Caesar was being progressive by not slaughtering everyone)

?

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Gold_Revolution9016@reddit

Moral absolutism is the belief that some things are just Right or Wrong regardless of circumstances. Eg "murder is always wrong".

Moral relativism says that morality is dictated by circumstances. Eg "sometimes you've got to eat the cabin boy".

In terms of analysis, you can use whatever lens you want. Both or neither.

(Personally I think any formal system breaks down in extreme circumstances, so I'm a moral relativist. In theory, anyway - I don't want to live in any of those extreme circumstances, so I behave like a moral absolutist.)

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Nerhtal@reddit

Ahh yeah, thats fairly sensical (probably not a word but i brainfarted and forgot the word for sensible as i was thinking whats the opposite of nonsensical).

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Pedantichrist@reddit

I agree, it is why old people become bigoted, specifically because they were progressive and hate being told they were wrong.

Friends was never presenting LBGT folk in anything other than a ridiculous light, for a joke, however.

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lessthandave89@reddit

Friends was never presenting LBGT folk in anything other than a ridiculous light, for a joke, however.

It was reflective of society too. I was at school when friends was at its peak and being called gay was a fairly common insult. Friends wasn't considered particualrly edgy or controversial for doing that. Whether it's life imitating art or the other way around I'm not sure.

From what I can gather, school kids today are much less likely to make jokes at the expense of someone's sexuality, as we wouldn't have done so referencing someone's race when I was younger, that's how progress seems to work.

In 20 years time I wouldn't be surprised if a show like the Big Bang Theory is considered in poor taste for its portrayal of people with neurodivergency

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Pedantichrist@reddit

Yeah, absolutely, I remember 'gay' being a perfectly acceptable word for a radio DJ to use in prime-time on a government radio show, just to mean 'bad'.

Friends was definitely not edgy at the time, but it is not reasonable to call it progressive either, it reflected the opinions of the era. I am old enough that using a hard R on national television as the punchline of a joke was still okay (although edgy) when I was young. Not by progressives though.

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PabloMarmite@reddit

There are multiple occasions where the word “lesbian” is simply the punchline (eg the time when Joey and Ross are dating the same girl, or Rachel not remembering Carol’s surname).

As I said in another comment, yes it was progressive in that it depicted a happy lesbian couple raising a child, but some of it still hasn’t aged well.

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Leather_Let_2415@reddit

They would take less heat these days if they never bothered to be progressive in their time, thats pretty ironic.

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One thing I think Friends does well is that, whilst the stories do centre on the main characters with the rest being merely tools for character development, this is not predominantly male character focus. Indeed I might argue that the female characters are supported by the male characters, rather than the other way around.

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chrisrazor@reddit

they were progressive and hate being told they were wrong.

You have no business calling out TERFs I know, who really were radical feminists back in the 80s, in this way ;)

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Pedantichrist@reddit

A great example.

They are so well versed in defending feminism that, when they got it wrong, and defended cis women against trans women, they fell right into 'defend against the right-wing' mode, then dug in instead of growing. As they dig in they find those digging with them also disagree with the attacking forces, and share their arguments to beat their opponents, and slowly become transphobic arseholes, which is not what they ever were.

They spend their lives being so progressive that they know everyone they fight against is in need of educating, then when progress overtakes them they assume it must be wrong.

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BaconLara@reddit

People seem to forget that “progress” is literally a thing that constantly progresses.

If something was progressive for the time, calling it outdated later on isn’t bad, it’s to be expected with most media.

But people would rather get upset about it and get defensive because they are “good” people who pride themselves on being good people. To admit something they enjoy is outdated would force them to confront and do some self reflection. When all is needed is “well damn, it’s a bit outdated now huh”

On the flip side, a lot of people view old media in a modern lense and refuse to apply any nuance to the context of the time the show was made.

Like rocky horror picture show comes to mind. Incredibly outdated with its terms, but the media storm and strides it made for lgbtq representation and media in the 70s can’t be understated or downplayed. Trans people and drag queens would literally dress up as the characters and go to the cinema and lipsync on stage to the entire movie to entertain and celebrate the movie. But I’ve heard younger people refer to it as hyper offensive due to the depiction of Frank N Furter.

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Joeboy@reddit

Was Friends considered progressive for its time? I don't particularly remember that being the case. Although I guess the point stands that it's more widely considered problematic now than it was at the time.

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chrisrazor@reddit

It's so weird how something can be progressive for it's time, rightly praised for that progressiveness, but then 20 years go by and people start criticising it for being backwards.

Doesn't that show that the hoped-for progress has actually occurred?

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id2d@reddit

It's so weird how something can be progressive for it's time, rightly praised for that progressiveness, but then 20 years go by and people start criticising it for being backwards.

This is what I think about Friends in particular. Without knowing anything specific about that show's production, I'd bet big that the writers of that show were super politically-correct and thought they were being heroes.

One example, Chandler's dad is trans. For that show to get that on TV on prime time for a relation of a main character was astounding. Yes they made jokes that he was trans, but in their eyes of the time, it would have been the most standard 'we laugh at everybody's weirdness' kind of humour, compared to usual trans storylines of 'yuck!!! I accidentally was attracted to a man' stuff.

Yeah but about 60% of it is from the 1990s and 1999 is still 25 years ago. It’s a very old tv show now however you look at it

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BottyFlaps@reddit

Yes. It was very much of its time.

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makomirocket@reddit

People don't think it's that old because, as you said with how old it is, TV hasn't actually progressed beyond it in the same timespan.

There are still dozens of sitcoms set in the same New York apartments, where the friends all still meet up in the same few New York locations. It's been 30 years, but TV was still black and white and married couples slept in separate beds.

Meanwhile the difference between Friends and How I Met Your Father is... A few flashbacks and some quicker editing?

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purpleplums901@reddit

Yeah you’re probably right about that. I also think the other thing worth noting is that even though it’s based on young gen x-ers coming of age in manhattan, it’s clearly written by people who were middle aged at the time. All the music and pop culture references are from like the 70s and 80s. They don’t like nirvana or wu tang clan, they mention music and its sting or the carpenters. Star Wars references, laverne and Shirley references, I swear it’s basically the writing and opinions of people who are actually about 75-80 now and we know what that generation thinks of LGBT rights and racial diversity….

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Supernatantem@reddit

I think similar could be said for Glee. They had such a diverse and representative cast at the time, but looking back on it now the topics could've been handled a lot better and a lot of stereotyping and misleading or harmful representation happened. For the time though it was huge seeing ethnic, disability and LGBT+ diversity to such a degree for the main cast.

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Gold_Revolution9016@reddit

It lagged well behind society. I remember a conversation about how ludicrous it was that none of them were gay. I mean, it's 90s NY. Don't take Friends as representative of society, take it as representative of broadcast TV.

It's like... I dunno, Eastenders, which is broadcast from a weird parallel reality where the population of the East End didn't bugger off to Essex post-WWII. It doesn't represent reality.

um_-_no@reddit

OMG YES! urg I get so pissed off about this. Not at the show because I do think it truly was a product of its time and I enjoyed it but yeah when people who are obsessed with it go on about it having a lesbian couple it really pisses me off, if these people can't see how offensive that portrayal is then honestly that worries me (aimed quite specifically at one person I know who's job is in diversity and inclusion so really should know better)

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Imperfect_Dark@reddit

The problem was that most gay people in the show were only really there to make one of the main characters feel uncomfortable.

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ehsteve23@reddit

The things that have aged worst for me are Chandler's dad and all the fat jokes about Monica, with a big sprinking of gay panic throughout.

I love the show and find it hilarious most of the time but it's outdated as hell.

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TheDoctor66@reddit

The Freddie Prince Jr episode is so bad! (Ross can't handle a male nanny because he must be "a little bit gay")

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paulmclaughlin@reddit

But that's an episode where Ross's prejudice is the butt of the joke.

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TheDoctor66@reddit

It doesn't deconstruct it, Ross' prejudice wins. It's just an excuse to make Manny jokes

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ProfAlmond@reddit

My view that trans people are people and deserve respect? You find that gross?

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Sean_13@reddit

I'm going to risk the downvotes but I agree with you. Unless there is something I am specifically not remembering, the show is pro gay and pro trans.

The lesbian couple are not played for jokes, they are played serious, they don't split up or anything. It's just accepted they are who they are, they are in love and they are both Ben's moms and they are not any less of a parent for being gay. They even get Ross to give her away at the wedding.

Chandler's dad was iffy but it's not done as a negative to him as a person but it's clearly a lack of knowledge from the writers about trans people. He's shown as a gay man with a drag act but then lives every day in that "drag act", they almost treat him as trans. If it was done nowadays, we know enough, they would have him as either a cis male or NB who has a drag act or have him be a straight trans woman without the drag act. But when they talked about him, nothing was done as a negative about his gender or sexuality. Chandler was horrified and scarred by catching him in sexual situations and his parents breaking up but that was equally true of his mom. The only thing I can think of is the transphobic comment from Chandler's mom but that was from a morally wrong person to their ex, it made sense in context.

The only other stuff I can think of is some of the toxic masculinity. But even that's played as a joke on the guys being too insecure and they are in the wrong. You just need to look at when Ben has a Barbie and everyone treats Ross like he's wrong to kick up such a fuss. Then at the end of the episode it turns out Ross dressed in female clothes as a kid and everyone else laughs at him because he was so fixated on Ben's barbie.

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Justan0therthrow4way@reddit

Thank you. I’ve watched the show a heap and I am really struggling to find a time any of it was really done in a negative way.

Chandler struggling with his dad’s sexuality is something most kids would likely struggle with if their parents got divorced for that reason in 2024.

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tmstms@reddit

I watch NCIS, which is a show whose first season was in 2003/4. The evolution of its attitudes to LGBT+ and to progressive values in particular is very interesting (esp given as, as for friends, we tend to see the entertainment / culture industry as more progressive than the average of society). In Season 1, there is an openly homophobic/ transphobic episode (the bad guy is either in the process of transitioning or just cross-dressed, and a main character who is undercover snogs him/her unaware this is the villain. Subsequently, the other members of the team tease and humiliate their colleague because he kissed a guy). But as the seasons (and spin-offs) proceed, there is a very open advocacy of progressive values, to the extent that one has a reasonably good cultural document of changing attitudes (including stuff like attitudes to the pandemic).

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HesitantBrobecks@reddit

I watch Law and Order SVU and feel this hahah. In more recent episodes they've had really nice and sympathetic depictions of trans people. In the first 5 (or so) series', they regularly say tr*nny and he-she, and in series 4 or 5 they almost exclusively refer to a trans woman as a man once they find out shes trans. And in the first ever episode, they displayed a transphobic and honestly homophobic caricature of trans women sex workers

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FartyMcStinkyPants3@reddit

Watch the Ace Ventura movies. The plot twist at the end of the first one would cause an uproar today, but I don't remember any controversy around it at the time. I do remember the second movie attracting some criticism over its portrayal of Africans though.

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One-Sea-4077@reddit

I honestly don’t think Daffyd aged well either, although I do see your perspective! For me it always left a bad taste in my mouth because it felt like the punchline was “haha, this gay man is stupid and paranoid for feeling isolated and worrying about persecution” when the show was made at a time when, eg, Section 28 was still in force and there had been a terrorist bombing of a gay pub in recent years.

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Stralau@reddit

I think people forget that the late 90s and 2000s pretty much thought that homophobia was so in the past that it was ok to joke about. That’s the Daffyd gag, really. Neither of the creators are homophobic (Lucas is a left wing gay man, Walliams left wing and sexuality a bit undefined), and the show included guest appearances from gay celebrities.

ride_on_time_again@reddit

People always forget this.

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uttertoffee@reddit

Isn't the punchline that he isn't gay? He's just pretending to be because he wants to be different and interesting?

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LuinAelin@reddit

The punchline was the whole village was gay.

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uttertoffee@reddit

Yeah and Dafydd is often homophobic to them and shows no interest in gay life other than claiming to be the "only gay". Maybe I misread it (and also I haven't watched it since it first aired) but as the series went on I thought he was meant to be pretending.

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TheKingMonkey@reddit

The character was also a parody of the Brian Dowling/Josh Rafter relationship in Big Brother when Brian was noticeably annoyed that the producers of the show had introduced a second gay housemate after he’d established himself as ‘the gay one’ in the house.

haha, this gay man is stupid and paranoid for feeling isolated and worrying about persecution

My takeaway was that he was just overly flamboyant and made the fact he was gay his personality, there are people like this in real life (obviously not quite to this extreme degree) and they're nothing but irritating if you spend enough time with them.

The fact that basically no one in his small Welsh village actually gave a fuck is what made it funny because realistically a small Welsh village in the early 2000s was unlikely to be like this and that he was basically just trying too hard

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himit@reddit

oh, see I always read it as a teenager doing their utmost to play victim and going through a phase (a couple of sketches made it clear that he wasn't actually gay)

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c0tch@reddit

This is how I viewed it as well… he wasn’t actually gay but this is what made him unique.

He would frequently in the sketches turn down advances from gay men and he’d be outraged if others were gay in the village and dismiss their claim to be gay.

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One-Sea-4077@reddit

Oh interesting, I don’t remember those specific sketches but that def seems like a reasonable interpretation too!

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c0tch@reddit

I thought the joke was he wasn’t actually gay but he wanted to be different and stand out. This is his thing to be special and unique.

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Wild-West-Original@reddit

I thought the point of the sketches being so ridiculously on the nose offensive was the point? It was funny because it was a caricature of the people who held those intolerant beliefs. Especially the 'I'm a lady' sketch, how can people see that as anything other than a piss take of a stereotypical tabloid reader's view of trans people?

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himit@reddit

quite probably, tbh I don't even remember the lady sketch very well.

andytimms67@reddit

But hilarious, you do know it’s a parody? Right!

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I’m honestly not thinking about continuing the show, it’s just a bit shite in all honesty

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FunCaterpillar128@reddit

If edgy humour jars on your progressive notions, then stay away from Little Britain. And also Brass eye, although that one’s a bit more sophisticated.

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CatGrrrl_@reddit (OP)

It’s not even about being like progressive or anything like (tho that’s obviously a good thing) it’s more that I’m realising now the shows just shit and racist for the crack instead of being good 😭

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FunCaterpillar128@reddit

Well I would slightly disagree. Controversial humour can be good. If done intelligently. This moral finger wag can really sap the creativity out of things.

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Bubbly-Thought-2349@reddit

It started as a radio show in the year 2000 and took a few years to get on TV, so the programme’s standards were slightly dated even then because of how rapidly the definition of acceptable was changing.

It was the last gasp of that kind of humour. It went from being extremely popular (ten million plus viewers) to unspeakably errant in the space of two years. Even towards the end of its run people with opinion columns in newspapers were complaining about how people ought not to find it funny.

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Capital-Quit-3396@reddit

Probably the most over the top of them all so stuck in the public memory more.

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shitzbrix@reddit

Because it was much more out there and pushed hard into stereo types like no show has before or after

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Thanks for that information, I didn't know a lot of that.

It's such a shame, it seemed like a very unique show. Some of it pretty dated now due to a different political climate and something not relevant but still very funny.

I still have the S1 Dvd somewhere.

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FacetiousBeard@reddit

"That's the plot to the Arrows song 'I love Rock and Roll', as recently covered by Britney Spears. What have you really been doing Clive?"

"...spit-roasting a hooker with your dad."

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scud121@reddit

"Trying to fill a bathtub with cum"

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worotan@reddit

Except it got major criticism at the time, because people were offended back then just like they are now.

There’s even a comedy catchphrase taking the piss out of your idea that people are dying to be offended from 20 years before the comedies you talk about - ‘it’s political correctness gone mad.’

It’s the lack of awareness that amazes me. Stop thinking in cliches.

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811545b2-4ff7-4041@reddit

It's possibly interesting for your own self-reflection, to consider how many replies you've commented how "people celebrated when it was cancelled'.

Maybe you're better off sticking to Monty Python and The Goon Show?

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Lambchops87@reddit

Monkey Dust was brilliant. Dark, funny but withnsome surprisingly heart warming moments of pathos that made you feel that no matter how ridiculous the world gets it will probably be alright in the end.

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811545b2-4ff7-4041@reddit

And to think in the early/mid 00s we thought things were bleak!

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Brrrofski@reddit

Some of the backlash isn't even warranted.

Like the racist old woman is cited as offensive now. But the joke wasn't about black people. It was about how fickle racists are.

ActivityUpset6404@reddit

Nah they’re definitely weird. Never have and never will understand people getting offended over artistic content. If you don’t like it - don’t fucking watch it. It’s as simple as that, and that goes for the people on the other side of the coin who get bent out of shape whenever a remake casts a black person as the lead role.

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No-Preparation-4632@reddit

I just think it hasn't aged well - a lot of those jokes were ridiculous at the time too; that was kinda the point

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No they don't, and that's the joke. Everyone else in the village is LGBT+ and is portrayed as perfectly "normal" - Daffyd is not actually gay and is jumping on the bandwagon so he can seem interesting

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Tall-Photo-7481@reddit

I'd likea gay person's take on Daffyd. To me he seemed like one of the more less offensive / more funny characters on the show.

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ATSOAS87@reddit

Oh okay.

RealLongwayround@reddit

See also “‘Til Death Us Do Part” and “In Sickness and in Health”. Garnett was written as the antagonist but received by rather too many as the protagonist.

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AddictedToRugs@reddit

Likewise One Foot In The Grave. We're not really supposed to like Victor Meldrew. But the mistake they made was making him a harmless grump, which people often warm too.

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Thrilalia@reddit

Garnett's actor even did an interview talking about this. How many people came up to him to show support to the, character for "telling it like it is." until he finally had enough and said "I'm taking the piss out of you, you fucking idiots."

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TheDisapprovingBrit@reddit

The problem is, if they had written it to be acceptable today, it would have fallen completely flat on the audience of the time. The only way to really take the piss out of a culture like that is to lean into it and exagerrate the worst parts of it. When people look at that same show a decade or two later, they see it as a genuine representation of attitudes of the time, rather than taking it to extremes for the purpose of comedy.

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It is satire and it is mocking the stereotype but unfortunately now days gen z will come along and say it’s offensive to the culture. Usually those saying it’s offensive aren’t actually from the culture apparently being made fun of.

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ShankSpencer@reddit

LB suffered especially because the "jokes" were very simple AND / BUT the main conceit of the writing was repetition as a form of longer term humour over the top. That seems to "square" the negatives of it to me. It wasn't meant to be a cutting commentary on modern society. It was meant to be dumb predictable fun, but written by clever people. Odd combo really.

Attitudes and tastes have changed in the 20ish or so years since it was first broadcast.

Honestly, I find that you need to watch certain shows with a different lens and understand that they were very much of their own time & understand the context of how they were presented. I certainly don't believe in cancel culture. Little Britain was absolutely massive when it first came out & I'd be contentious enough to bet that there are many who claim offence at it these days who laughed along with it at the time.

I find that offence is subjective. As is comedy. What one person finds funny/offensive, another may not. As I've grown older I've found things like Little Britain less funny, because tastes and sense of humour matures. But do I find it offensive? No.

The way I look at Little Britain is the fact that it was absurd and surreal caricature sketch comedy. It didn't target specific people & the kinds of people it portrayed had aspects of their personalities dialled up to 11 for comedic effect.

Partly just because it's not very good

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ProperGanderz@reddit

All the race shit

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Creative-Tomorrow-54@reddit

Internet has made weak ass people that can't laugh at jokes

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danabrey@reddit

Because when Little Britain was broadcast, it was already 15-20 years out of date.

It was the Mrs Browns Boys of its time.

A very long time ago I (white, male) was hired by a company that had relocated its head office from Uganda to West London

After a week or so there, two of the Ugandan guys were wondering thru the department i was in, and one casually gestured towards me and spoke to the other, starting this conversation.

"Its getting very multicultural around here"

"Now don't be silly, you even had a white guy working for you up til a while ago. What happened to him, anyway?"

"We ate him"

Maybe its only humour if it comes from the side the joke is aimed at. Both guys were native-born Ugandans.

Tremendous sense of humour, that lot - almost entirely self-referential. I liked working there

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Wretched_Colin@reddit

I’m 48 now and, as a child, my parents took us on holiday to the Isle of Man. One of the events of the holiday was a night out to see a variety night which had Keith Harris and Orville, Chas and Dave, Bobby Davro and Stan Boardman.

Being from Belfast, race was never an issue growing, but even at 10 years old I remember realising how inappropriate Stan Boardman was. Hate filled jokes about Asian people running shops, strange Chinese accents etc. He was famous for anti German jokes, as the Triumph TR7 factory in his native Liverpool shut down, with the rest of British Leyland, while Porsche was making the 911 and Volkswagen the Golf.

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FairHalf9907@reddit

Because it wasn't funny.

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Kitchen_Owl_8518@reddit

Likewise, never understood why it was so popular.

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WhaleMeatFantasy@reddit

I also just don’t think it’s that funny. I mean even at the time.

So now looking back it seems even worse.

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imminentmailing463@reddit

It's very of its time. Comedy at that time was often very mean. Indeed, I think you could argue TV shows more broadly were just quite mean.

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whizzymamajuni@reddit

Is it? I was a teen back when it was on and I watched a lot of comedy, but LB always seemed utterly vile to me. I tried watching an episode with my mum and we both laughed a little bit at one or two of the jokes, but the main thing we both recalled was that we just felt kind of dirty after watching it. Sort of all-over grubby. I don’t remember feeling like that over other contemporary comedy - but maybe that’s because I was into political satire like HIGNFY, Bremner Bird & Fortune, The News Quiz etc.

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paper_zoe@reddit

a non-comedy example off the top of my head would be The Weakest Link. Some of the things Anne Robinson would say on that were just horrid. And it was a tea time quiz show. Imagine if Alexander Armstrong spent two minutes of Pointless laying into a contestant cos they happened to be a single mum or something.

I guess you used to get it on talent shows as well, where they'd get someone on there just to see them get slaughtered by Simon Cowell or whoever and laughed at by everyone.

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imminentmailing463@reddit

Yeah, loads of comedy and TV shows in general around that time were quite mean spirited. It was also very much slap bang in the middle of that period where shock/cringe comedy was a big thing. Comedy where saying and doing things to shock the audience was as much part of the bit as actual jokes.

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whizzymamajuni@reddit

Clearly I wasn’t as cultured as I thought 😆😆

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dolphineclipse@reddit

This is my memory too - 2000s TV in general was very mean-spirited in a way that feels alien now

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Trebus@reddit

at that time I think you could argue TV shows more broadly were just quite mean.

I don't really think much has changed. CelebJungleTwats is back on & as far as I can tell has bullying every year, not to mention insects, arachnids & mammals getting crushed so some wailing attention seeker gets camera time.

Amazed it is still going in 2024.

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CatGrrrl_@reddit (OP)

Okay that actually makes a lot of sense, it’s definitely more famous than a lot of those shows I listed. Ik Noel fielding is still quite famous but not really the same level as Matt lucas/David walliams. How famous was it at the time like? Ik it was famous but idk how famous

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worotan@reddit

I was in my late 20s when it was on, and I thought it was unfunny and nasty. It wasn’t the most famous of a lot of programmes like that, it was a particular attempt to react against all the comedy of the previous 20 years which didn’t entertain Sun readers.

It took the success of the Fast Show format and turned it into something that nasty people could get catchphrases from. They’re now trying to say that, since everyone liked it so they can’t be unreasonable and nasty. And anyone who says they didn’t like it is either pretending to look good, or isn’t worth listening to because they are uptight and don’t get a joke.

Too many people love to be offended and tell others how offended they are. It's embarrassing tbh. It was a shit show imo but it was clearly mocking the stereotypes and making scenes to show how ridiculous they can be for every scene I watched.

Honestly you’re right with that, the more I think about it the more it’s just…..weird edgy shit for the sake of it 💀 it’s a shame as well I was dead excited to watch it for some reason

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SeraphKrom@reddit

Shame to see your opinion be swayed so much in this thread. General advice for the future, if you like something avoid discussing it on reddit, they'll only ruin it for you.

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alilyspider@reddit

I think they may have edited out a lot of the racism. There were characters in blackface, callous impersonation of Asian people and language used to mock people from ethnic minorities used.

A lot of the impact of it is that it was so hugely popular that people often used lines from Little Britain in playgrounds etc to, in essence, racially abuse others.

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Wretched_Colin@reddit

I forget the show now, but it was in the 80s before Little Britain.

I used to work with a British Asian, born in England, unlike me. There was a show on a Sunday night full of racist jokes and she used to watch it every week to give her an idea of the racist jokes and taunts she would be subjected to the next day.

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Comfortable-Pace3132@reddit

It's not their problem, they just exposed what was already there. They didn't create racism in Britain, they exposed it

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TheTackleZone@reddit

It is easy to underestimate, or even not be aware of, how important the "Alternative Comedy" revolution of the 80s was. Much of the comedy scene in the UK in the 60s and 70s were hugely racist performers, often at working men's clubs. Then, in the 80s, you had intelligent educated people like Alexi Sayle, Ben Elton, Edmondson and Sayle, French and Saunders, Fry and Laurie, Rowan Atkinson, and many more, completely changing the landscape. Often working together to start before hitting the mainstream in the late 80s and early 90s.

It almost completely killed the "point and laugh at different people" style that came before it.

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Wretched_Colin@reddit

I feel that the Sacha Baron Coen stuff was too close to the bone for my liking.

He is anti-semitic, but says “hey, I’m Jewish too so it’s ok”. But Frank Carson used to tell anti-Irish jokes, Kenny Lynch used to tell anti-black jokes. And people lapped them up, after all it can’t be racist to laugh at jokes about black people if it is a black person telling it, right?

The other thing with Sacha Baron-Coen that annoys me is that he instigates racism or anti-semitism, then looks down at those who respond to it.

Somehow though, he has remained cool, accepted by all.

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Dans77b@reddit

That's the trouble, looking back on it charitably as a mature adult I can say it was just making fun of bigotry, but the children watching it weren't mature.

I would agree but Little Britain was so blatant and repetetive, you start questioning not the point of the programme, but what regular viewers were getting out of it. Were they rolling around laughing weekly at the nuance and subtle context of these situations. Or the funny voice and make-up.

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Fugoi@reddit

Obviously blacking up to mock black people is racist. Equally obviously a white person playing a black person (or visa versa) is not inherently racist. That's what actors do: act!

This is a very theoretical, ahistorical and context-free viewpoint. Perhaps it's not inherently racist, but...

Is it possible for a white person to put on makeup to "act black" without descending into racial caricature?

Why not just hire a black actor who would look the part and have personal experiences to draw upon?

It's just very hard for me to understand what set of non-racist circumstances could make blackface the right choice for anything but portraying a character wearing blackface.

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Reasonable-Horse1552@reddit

Exactly 💯

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timeforknowledge@reddit

Especially chavy girls

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Magic_Fred@reddit

I remember a lot of the criticism of Little Britain being that it was always punching down. The person you were laughing at was always the fat person, the poor person, the disabled person, in a way that felt really mean-spirited.

And I don't think it's anything to do with it not having aged well. League of Gentleman has aged dreadfully but I still think it's hilarious, even as I cringe at how offensive some of it is. Basically I think Little Britain is controversial because it was written by a pair of arseholes who like to make fun of people.

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bobliefeldhc@reddit

No-Body-4446@reddit

Reddit likes to pretend that they were so so against it at the time. But as usual Reddit is out of touch with the general population. It had 3 series and was aired at prime time on bbc1 or 2 (can’t remember which).

Reddit says a lot of things about it, both positive and negative.

Personally, I thought it was shit at the time. According to you, my opinion doesn’t exist because a lot of other people watched it.

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Jolly_Constant_4913@reddit

I don't like Stewart Lee🤣

What about Catherine or Gimme gimme gimme. Those had jokes that poked fun and had gay characters. Those were more my thing

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ThreeRandomWords3@reddit

Yeah, they were both good.

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Psittacula2@reddit

Indeed OR “modern standards” ie thought police where labels are more important than complex reality as you suggest is what “should be capturing peoples’ attention today unless there is something sinister and “phewblematic!” about them.”

If black guys want to do a comedy piss take on white guys go for it… if it is an attempt at pointing stuff that gives people a laugh. Usually comedy does a number of things:

* Relief

* Superiority

* Truth

* Shock

* Absurdity

For example. Believe it or not that covers an enormous range so vast it is beyond defintion or simple trite labelling.

I have taught kids at schools who were really badly behaved, often obnoxious, aggressive and so much more and yet at times they had everyone laughing at their outrageous behaviour. Somehow in “Modern Standards” it is alright for teachers to be disrespected and verbally abused or even assault and yet woe betide anyone doing silly comedy sketches of absurd combinations of characters.

To me that is the “Sick Society” not the one from previous times which distinguished reality from fantasy.

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worotan@reddit

Except the comedy trope of outraged people saying ‘it’s political correctness gone mad’ comes from the 80s, so this isn’t a new thing at all.

Everything you’ve said was talked about decades ago. This isn’t a new problem, and you’re demonstrating that you don’t understand enough if you think it is.

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Mighty Boosh definitely does get flack for its blackface.
It wouldnt fly now at all. I'm a fan of Boosh, but wouldnt excuse the Blackface in it, although it wasnt set-up to take the piss out of a group.

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Thendisnear17@reddit

Spot on with the first one.

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DocShoveller@reddit

Plenty of us thought Little Britain was offensive at the time.

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Eayauapa@reddit

I got all kinds of shit at school for hating that show, people assuming I hated it because I was being prudish. I've always liked my comedy with a bit of edge to it, but if you're going to be offensive you've got to be clever, too. Little Britain to me always just felt like a nasty combination of hateful and lazy.

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I was a teenager when it first aired and I can tell you that it was extremely quotable by teenagers. They didn't see it as satire, only as an observation and assisted many to be more homophobic or racist.

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Albert_Herring@reddit

That was a formula which had just worked well for the Fast Show (which was in turn seen as a bit of a revival of forms of comedy from before the sitcom became the dominant form). It just added in, dunno, nastiness or edgelordism which never worked for me whatever the satirical intent was.

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because it was grotesque in the way racism was presented and it often become the butt of the joke

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MikeTheMulletMan@reddit

Honestly I think people are just to soft now. If you are making jokes about topics like. Gender or other “touchy” subjects it just means they are treating them subjects like everything else. When you say oh you can’t joke about that you are not treating it as “normal” if you understand what I’m saying. I LOVE Frankie Boyle, he makes jokes about all sorts of things and mostly to bring attention to hypocrisy, or a subject people don’t want to talk about like war or immigration etc. Who decided these topics are no go?

For me it’s similar to when Morgan freeman said if we stop talking about race/ racism it will go away. If we just treat everything the same and say we can make jokes about it then it makes more sense to me than not allowing jokes to be made about certain subjects.

I’m sure people will call flaws in my logic and I’m sure I could’ve explained better but it’s just the way I see things.

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Limp-Bedroom@reddit

Because people are too sensitive and scared to find something funny that they themselves would be shunned for. So they say it’s offensive. But really. Who cares

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TrashbatLondon@reddit

I think it is objectively worse than similar shows of its era. The mighty boosh had some blackface, but that wasn’t really the focus of the joke. Harry Enfield was a bit classist with Wayne and Waynetta, but was a fair but before Little Britain.

I also think Walliams’ lack of self reflection plays a big part. Matt Lucas has conceded that they were wrong and he wouldn’t do it again, but Walliams seems to be brazening out the “of its era” thing. He’s also a creepy odd ball who continually fails upwards into lucrative careers, so that doesn’t help.

Because it was so popular with kids. Everyone in highschool knew about it and the "I am a lady" or stereotypes about handicap people just scrounging. It also came around the 2005-2008 period where debates over immigration started getting more heated and the financial crisis.

I think also, the upbeatedness to the show ie Tom Baker kind of made the jokes seem almost normal and inoffensive.

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ILoveSoggyBiscuit@reddit

Only the people who dislike stuff or feel offended by such things make the most noise.

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purply_otter@reddit

It takes too many swings at disabled people

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hhfugrr3@reddit

Did it take swings at disabled people? I can only think of Andy Pipkin and the whole joke of that seems to be that he isn't disabled, he's just exploiting his gullible friend. Maybe I've forgotten some though, it's been a while.

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EFTRSx1@reddit

"How did you get up that tree"
"dunno I fell"

It’s like people pointing at the viewing figures for Jeremy Kyle and saying that everyone loved it.

Your idea of what the humour was based on is as wrong as your idea that everyone loved it. Sun reader-types do tend to think that everyone is secretly like them, but is scared to admit it.

Which is a painfully childish thing for an adult to still believe.

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EasternFly2210@reddit

The whole point was to be purposely shocking and they ramped it up with each series. Some of the stuff people find offensive in it today wasn’t acceptable when it was first broadcast at all.

The delivery was quite decent though. I don’t know, the show still makes me laugh anyway.

Not the funniest thing I’ve ever seen, but funny enough.

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jiminthenorth@reddit

Humour is largely subjective. I didn't like it at the time, never thought why.

Looking back I now have the knowledge as to why.

Question - what do you think of the blackface in Monty Python?

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leobeer@reddit

I’m married to a Thai girl. We were visiting my parents in the UK when Ting Tong was on television. The amount of kids in my working class area who shouted that at her was insufferable.

Ting Tong really looked like my mate’s wife though.

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CatGrrrl_@reddit (OP)

I haven’t seen that character yet but from the name alone it sounds like it’s not gonna be good 😭🙏

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milkythepirate@reddit

https://youtu.be/m_Q5dSbBczE?si=8p0hRaylYZx2-SxS

It’s not just that it was “of it’s time”, thing is, blackface/yellowface was offensive at the time.

lavenderacid@reddit

It's the blackface, right? I don't remember any blackface in Mighty Boosh or similar shows.

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SpaTowner@reddit

Calling Bates character in IAHHM ‘blackface’ is possibly an oversimplification. Bates was white but was born in India, served in the Indian army as a captain in the Gurkhas and spoke Urdu.

The third series is the most extreme and was made and shown for BBC1. That’s where much of the most problematic material is.

In the first series you could make the argument that by featuring racist/sexist/homophobic/etc characters they were making fun of the offensive behaviour itself. In the third series they’re just being offensive for the sake of it.

Mind you, much of the humour is akin to a small child shouting “bum” in church just to get a reaction - it’s infantile, but there’s little malice intended. (Although obviously by perpetuating stereotypes the intentions don’t really matter.)

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A part of it could be your maturity at your current age. Little Britain is manufactured to be full of catchphrases. A 16 year old probably wont find that funny, but a 12 year old might latch on to some of the catchphrases in the show.

Because little Britain punched down

Harry Enfield,

Didn't punch down like little britain

The Mighty Boosh,

Was absurdist and again didn't punch down and rightly gets considered controversial due to blackface same as little Britain nowadays so I don't agree with this example.

Bottom,

Was crude humour, it wasn't offensive. It didn't punch down

It Ain’t Half Hot Mum

Completely different era it was mid 70's so you expect most of the controversial stuff to be in it .

Also No idea how you've come to the conclusion 3/4 of these examples are "similar shows from the same time"

Little Britain was two middle class white men walking in and going "fat people are funny, black people are funny, gays are funny, chavs are funny, disabled people/ benefit chests are funny, trans people are funny, racism is funny " and always making those people the butt of the joke.

Comedy is something you are supposed to laugh along with, not something that is laughing at you.

Little Britain took formulaic sketch comedy and used it as a way for the creators to look down on people. It wasn't innovative and hilarious comedy either it was predictable repeated jokes and catchphrases to mask the bigotry

That's not the same as Eddie Hitting Ritchie with a frying pan or A woman named Susan who is made of sandpaper who lives in a room of mirrors

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XLDumpTaker@reddit

Sorry but your dad sounds soft. Little Britain was top class British TV growing up. Yes it had stereotypes, exaggerations, blackface etc... The thing is, everyone got a piece, no one was safe, it was accurate to a degree and it was funny. I enjoyed watching it tremendously and that's in a black household that was initially under the impression that it was racist and a show that catered towards whites.

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Ok-Comfortable-3174@reddit

virtue signalling

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Wawawanow@reddit

From what I remember Series 1 wasn't wildly offensive and was reasonably funny. It was a smaller run with a few (at the time) original characters/ideas and was fairly well done.

The later seasons though added a couple of overtly racist characters and at the same time the writing dropped off so it wasnt funny - they were just recycling the same catchphrases whilst being progressively less clever with it and the new characters weren't funny at all. The whole thing just fell off a cliff.

It also moved to BBC1 - so people coming to it at that point would have been like "why is this racist unfunny shite popular?"

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berty87@reddit

They aren't that offensive. People just got sensitive to comedy.

Even now Dave chapel does hia white man voice, and people laugh. But he's black. So it's OK. He used to also do whiteface and people still think the chapelle show was hilarious so much so. They actually have it up on YouTube for people to reminisce.

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holytriplem@reddit

Little Britain came of age at the peak of "ironic racism". The idea being that we're so totally past racism that we can make racist jokes again because nobody will think we really mean it, but we also get good shock value out of it.

It was such a big show. Everyone watched it, across generations, so everyone is therefore inculcated in the retrospective squeamishness.

It wasn’t an ‘edgy’ C4 youth show, it was seen as a nationally unifying show with politicians doing guest sketches for charity etc.

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Jolly_Constant_4913@reddit

Surprised no one's mentioned gimme gimme gimme. That made a lot of gay jokes. Did I find it funny? Yes because it wasn't mocking about any sexuality..It was about Linda's vulgarity

Otoh Little Britain was mocking people like the disabled

Catherine Tate had a gay character but it wasn't really mocking his preferences but his prejudices against his own preferences. Just like a 60s comedy

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butineurope@reddit

"Same time" OP you are making me feel ancient lumping in the 2000s with the 70s

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Fearless-Dust-2073@reddit

It contained a lot of material that wouldn't be socially acceptable today, but mostly it just wasn't very funny. I can kinda see what they were going for by ramping up the stereotypes to ridiculous levels, but there's a fine line between satirising the harmful stereotypes and perpetuating them. I bet a lot of East Asian people came to school or work to be called a slur by someone who didn't know that it was a slur. Newspapers still regularly report "woman on disability benefits caught on skiing holiday" type stories which makes people think it's a far bigger problem than it is. They went too hard on the content to be so light on making the actual point.

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HoraceorDoris@reddit

I’m not defending them, however retrospectively dissecting them is pointless, as the shows were reflections of the attitudes of the time.

It’s the same as casual racism, slavery, empires and everything else. All wrong and I’m not saying they’ve been completely eradicated, but thankfully consigned in the most part to the UK’s history.

I think people need to look forward not backwards. The humour was cutting edge at times and sometimes grossly missed the mark. I wonder how well today’s humour will fare in 20 years time? Too safe? Too boring? Too political? Too much inclusion? Too smug? Too childish? I don’t know, we’ll have to wait and see 🤷🏻‍♂️

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Opening-Worker-3075@reddit

I disagree that it was the reflections of the attitudes at the time.

I remember when it came out and it was shit then too.

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Affectionate_You_858@reddit

I thought it was shite. However, I remember it being massively popular, so to a degree, it must have

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Are_You_On_Email@reddit

If you want to watch completely inappropriate and wonder how the hell did they manage to get that on the bbc 1... Check out their follow up series "Come Fly With Me"

Which is a spoof of the popular fly on the wall documentaries shows at the time following life in airports and on airlines.

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Specific_Till_6870@reddit

Didn't he play Nelson Mandela in a more recent show?

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sihasihasi@reddit

Speaking as someone of the target age group when it was broadcast, it was always shite.

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MrAlf0nse@reddit

Little Britain wasn’t ok at the time

It ain’t half hot mum wasn’t universally appreciated at its time either

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