NOTAM issued closing a taxiway at my destination airport while I was in flight.
Posted by moxiedoggie@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 128 comments
I checked NOTAMS before I departed and all seemed good at my destination airport. There was one closed taxiway, but based on the runway I was going to use it wasn't going to affect me. By the time I landed, I got off the runway and taxied clear of the hold short line, called tower with my taxi intentions. The tower responded in a very intense voice that I needed to turn around and go back on another taxiway and go in this roundabout way to the FBO, no big deal, who knows why he was being a big meanie. I did see some construction vehicles in the distance just off that taxiway. By the time he asked me to monitor ground his attitude hadn't gone away. After I got out of the plane, I checked the NOTAMs to be sure I didn't misread the closed taxiway, and sure enough a new NOTAM had been issued while I was in flight closing the exact taxiway that I had vacated onto. I am sure the Tower controller was being mean because of that.
Now, I don't remember hearing anything on the ATIS about the closed taxiway, and the tower controller never said anything about it either. I never got told that I was on a closed taxiway, just sort of thinking why the tower was being so scolding.
I've heard people talk about the "Broken NOTAM system" - surely this is what they mean right? How the hell am I supposed to know about a NOTAM that was issued while in flight if it's not broadcast or shared by the tower?
Maybe I'm venting....
C17KC10T6Flyer@reddit
Only way you’ll get an update on NOTAMS airborne are calling FSS and ask them for any new NOTAMS issues since departure or, a company dispatcher who is looking ahead for you and sends you the update. Other than that, ATC.
radioref@reddit
Tower was probably being a big meanie because you might have been the 8th arrival to do it right after they issued the NOTAM. Or this got thrown on them at the last minute and they know that this preferred route is gonna be where the next 40 arrivals go by muscle memory and they are going to have to deal with it every time.
Tower was probably just mad at the situation, not you. Just tell them “sorry about that, you don’t have to be a meanie about it” and if they get snippy after that tell them “my daddy can beat up your daddy, what’s the number up there so we can work this out further”
exbex@reddit
If anyone uses the word meanie, you should immediately goto the penalty box for 30 minutes before being allowed to taxi further.
OP, shit happens. It’s a stressful environment at times. People lose their cool occasionally. Not much different you could have done. Just blow off the guy being short with you.
As for the broken notam system, they are talking about 6 pages of garbage notams that you need to sift through and then miss one that’s actually important.
FlyByPC@reddit
What if you're not at KORD?
intern_steve@reddit
The historic ORD penalty box has been decommissioned, and is now partly striped as taxiway Q, and partly unusable pavement near the intersection of Q and K. I think O'Hare ground boxed their last penitent airliner last fall.
bottomfeeder52@reddit
wait so ORD ground has an actual penalty box they send you to if you fuck up or something? that’s fucking hilarious. “uuuuh sort folks we’ve been given a 15 min penalty for meowing on guard”
intern_steve@reddit
Yeah, they used to. Now they just have the A pad and the B pad. The B pad is adjacent to B, and the A pad is adjacent to, you guessed it, TT.
bottomfeeder52@reddit
do they still call it going to the penalty box
intern_steve@reddit
No.
exbex@reddit
Been a while since I was based there. Thanks for the update. $pent many an hour there.
exbex@reddit
I think ORD ground would break OP. Stop after clearing the runway and then waiting to get a word in on ground for taxi instructions.
netopiax@reddit
What do you mean garbage, I extremely need to know about a flagged 40' crane 3 miles from the departure end of the runway, and the other one right next to it listed separately
EwanWhoseArmy@reddit
My favourite one is “model aircraft flying up to 400ft ago” about 20 miles away from any airfield
Fly-The-Disc@reddit
I'm gonna have to disagree with this one. They can be useful for those of us who spend most of our time at or below 500 AGL. Same goes for RPAS NOTAMs. Do I care that the drone is a XYZ Iceman 3 that weighs 1.3 kgs? No, but it is nice to know where they're operating. Especially with EFBs that graphically depict the NOTAM area.
EwanWhoseArmy@reddit
True but that would be useful on a route one , just they come up in airfields miles away
vsimakhin@reddit
WHAT ABOUT AREA 423447N0114609E 423706N0114840E 423619N0114949E 423401N0114711E 423447N0114609E
Helpful_Corn-@reddit
That seems far less important than the broken light bulb on a radio tower nine miles away.
moxiedoggie@reddit (OP)
That's probably true. There were basically 2 exits for this runway, one midway down, which is what I took, or one that was all the way at the end which no small aircraft would ever need to use unless told to do so.
Fabulous-Kanos@reddit
Tower is stitxhing himself up. Landing clearance should have been "ABC, cleared to land Runway 12, vacate at the far end" or something similar.
AJohnnyTruant@reddit
Gonna use “my daddy can beat up your daddy” with LGA ground during the next ground stop. Thanks this helps
jemenake@reddit
If only there were some automated information service for terminals which could apprise pilots of recent conditions at that airport. /s
Seriously, though, I’ve heard things like “Notice to airmen, taxiway Charlie out of service” dozens of times.
bhalter80@reddit
All they have to say on final is turn off at x-ray and the problem is solved
Real-Owl-5702@reddit
Your taxi intentions don’t mean shit. You clear. You tell ground where you are and where you want to go. They will tell you how to accomplish that. That is the end of the story.
What airport and date did this occur?
moxiedoggie@reddit (OP)
Sorry if it wasn’t clear, as you’re the 2nd or third person to say this. I taxied clear of runway, and told tower where I wanted to go, “n12345 clear of runway x taxi to FBO”
Real-Owl-5702@reddit
OP u/moxiedoggie what date and airport did this occur?
moxiedoggie@reddit (OP)
Not going to share the airport. But it happened Monday.
Real-Owl-5702@reddit
Or did it lol.
Real-Owl-5702@reddit
I’m not sorry to ask for these details. It helps everyone learn. You had no problem sharing a picture of “dueling short finals” at KPVC. Why not add an airport to add details to your issue?
Lanky_Delivery_319@reddit
I’ll raise you one, this happened a little over a year ago. Flying IFR to a fuel stop, non towered. Shoot an approach so the larger and better wind runway, clouds about 1200 so breakout and cancel. Short final we pick out vehicles working on the runway. Circle and land on the crossing runway that is clear. Shutdown, check NOTAMs again, no runways are closed at this airport. Could have been very bad.
moxiedoggie@reddit (OP)
Yikes. That’s insane. What did you do about it? Ever tell any higher ups what happened?
Lanky_Delivery_319@reddit
Tried to call the airport manager, they didn’t pick up. When I took off I informed approach. They had given me approach clearance for a closed runway and they were also shocked.
OpinionatedPoster@reddit
Next time you fly to that airport, make it a point when first calling in to ask if there are any new taxi or runway closures and if this situation would change please advise. You were lucky it was a taxiway and not a runway closing or going into an intersection config. It happened with one of my flights that the long rwy closed 30 mins prior ETA and the shorter rwy was not long enough for my plane. Luckily our dispatch was on top of it and talked to the right people and they re opened and fod checked the runway before our plane with about 100 military personnel would've had to fish for another airport to land on. Since then dispatcher or no dispatcher, I check it without exception and they know why. Be tougher than the next guy and they will not mess with you like this.
Approach_Controller@reddit
Just so you're aware, ops closes this stuff, not atc. You can get tough with me all you want, but that piece of concrete is the city/county's. You're more than welcome to hold and argue with them if you know their phone number, but I'm just as shocked most of the time when they call and close stuff.
Also, expecting (I'm assuming) approach or center to know about taxiway closures is just not a good expectation to have.
OpinionatedPoster@reddit
Do you think everybody should know about it? I do.
Approach_Controller@reddit
Ok sure. My 15th airplane checks in and asks about any new notams. I'm going to have to unplug, abandon my scope, walk 15 feet away to a computer, log in, sift through the same notam garbage you do, 4 minutes later pray to God I haven't had a midair all the while pilots ask me if I'm still there? Lol no. Probably be the first one screaming for lower while I'm typing in my password.
It should be on the atis, not gleaned from a disconnected facility who controls bupkis on the ground. May as well ask D21 about taxi times an ANC. If you honestly think someone working approach at any reasonably busy airport has time to go eyes off and dig through pages of text, I think you're lacking in understanding of what's happening on the other end.
OpinionatedPoster@reddit
It's more like times are changing. I am still old school (and proud of it) and there was no incident when a taxiway closed it even just was wet and everybody didn't right away know about it. If there was a ball dropped, dance lessons followed (on the rug)
moxiedoggie@reddit (OP)
I get your situation, but seems a bit much to ask about taxi or runway closures on every initial call-up. I bet that would make most tower controllers more mad by having me ask that than keeping it concise. But I get your situation and you're dealing with a lot more nuance flying so many people around. I'm just a lowly PPL flying me or one passenger at a time and we can usually deal with whatever is thrown at us.
OpinionatedPoster@reddit
Well I am sure you will not always be at that level. The good thing was that we had people making calls on the ground. You did not have that luxury. But be assured that things like this don't happen frequently.
irishluck949@reddit
The “broken NOTAM system” is usually referring to stuff like runway or airport closure being buried in between 10 million temporary obstacles 2.8 miles from the runway, 20ft agl, mowing in progress all grass areas, birds INVOF APT.
Sounds like tower was just being a dick, or just had a grumpy tone. if they don’t want to put their taxiway closures in the atis, I’m not gonna feel that bad about it, ESPECIALLY not if the notam popped up during flight. You’re good dude.
rmurphey@reddit
Is "I must have missed that in the atis" a valid response?
HLSparta@reddit
I once saw a NOTAM for UAS operations SFC-3 feet agl
If you don't believe me, here is proof. (I redacted the location since it was only 7.7 miles from the small airport I train at.)
mkopinsky@reddit
As a non-flying civilian, this is terrifying. A 2 mile radius with a drone flying around crashing into my knees? NO THANKS.
EnvironmentCrafty710@reddit
!XYZ 11/001 XYZ TWY A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, J, K PARTIAL LGT OUT OF SERVICE 2311191200-2311201200
bahenbihen69@reddit
NEW STANDS 201 202 203 204 OPEN
This, obstacle erected and partial taxiway lighting U/S are my fav
irishluck949@reddit
Oh yeah not to mention, PARTIAL MARKING OBSCURED/ NONSTANDARD
moxiedoggie@reddit (OP)
Ah right, that's the real broken NOTAM system. Thanks.
tomdarch@reddit
I'm involved in construction and no one suddenly decides to roll trucks and start construction on something like a taxiway (unless there's something like a flood washing out soil/pavement or they just discovered a sinkhole.) Typically there is MONTHS of planning, budgeting and permitting for work and a lot of intense planning leading up to the day that they start working on a chunk of an airport.
It's hard to imagine that no one knew a week or two in advance that there would be work happening that would close that taxiway.
Did airport management screw up and not file the paperwork to have the NOTAM issued until the contractor started locating equipment on the taxiway and roping it off that morning at 7am, then panicked and issued it?
Approach_Controller@reddit
As an airport ops manager I closed far, far more taxiways and runways for FOD, inspections, contamination, routine equipment checks and repair, RSA impacts and wingtip clearance complications than I ever did for contractor related construction. None of these things are the types of work you seem to be assuming they are.
Tower calls ops, "hey someone reported a fuel leak while taxiing on bravo." Well, grrreeeeaaaat now ARFF has to get involved, let me call them, then get back to the office, fire up the computer, file a NOTAM, let that ping across the notam system for a while before it pops out the business end. I mean, what am I supposed to do here? I need to get the ARFF dudes there because it's an environmental hazard and I can't have planes and a fire apparatus on a taxiway so it's got to close. Temporary closures occur all across the country daily for replacing burned out airport lights for example. Call tower, hey I'm shutting down alpha at alpha three to alpha five for five minutes so airfield electrical can replace 3 burned bulbs. I'm not filing a notam for that.
I can tell you the presence of construction vehicles in the vicinity of a particular taxiway does not mean that taxiway itself is undergoing construction. They're insisting they need to park right there. How far is that from Charlie? Damn, I'm not sure if we have wing clearance for 737s, I'm not about to play a guessing game over every possible wingspan and height, just shut Charlie down from Charlie 2 to Charlie 3 to be safe. I'll also tell you that as unfair as it is, even if ops decided at 7am to close the taxiway, that's their prerogative. Ops should communicate with tower who should put it on the atis. Those actions are the immediate pressing ones. The notam comes next in order of priority. Don't forget, at many airports there may just be one ops person on duty. If that ops person is out on the airfield attending to something when the call comes, they just have to do what they can. It'd be like if you were at a job site mid concrete pour and someone asked you to print up an invoice from the office.
tomdarch@reddit
Excellent points! Thank you!
From your end what is the process for a NOTAM related to needing to close a taxiway?
Approach_Controller@reddit
Unfortunately, I haven't worked in ops since Bush's 2nd term. Technology has obviously moved along significantly enough that anything about that has likely changed enough to make my insight more a history lesson than helpful.
If it's anything like the PIREP system, whose responsibility has been farmed out to ATC, it's a poorly constructed web page to access and enter information in a form.
moxiedoggie@reddit (OP)
They had a NOTAM for a different taxiway closure in the morning which I read. Then it seems they added another taxiway about an hour later (while I was already flying). Maybe airport management didn't realize how much space they needed until they were already out there?
x4457@reddit
1) You met a dickhead, sorry.
2) Also his fault for not issuing you vacate instructions to avoid the closed taxiway.
moxiedoggie@reddit (OP)
Yeah I would think that when I was rolling down the runway, the tower should have at least said "N12345 roll to the end exit on taxiway X", but I got nothing so I just rolled out and exited at the first taxiway that made sense to get off at.
Redtail772@reddit
Yeah, the AIM says to exit at next available taxiway unless otherwise instructed by ATC. You did nothing wrong.
moxiedoggie@reddit (OP)
"available" is the keyword. It appeared available to me, and nothing said otherwise. Or so I think.
Redtail772@reddit
Plus, Part 139 (the rules that govern airports), says that airport ops should have barricaded the taxiway at the hold short line.
uehara19sox@reddit
Part 139 only governs certain airports. Without knowing the destination airport, no way to know if it’s covered. Given the NOTAM was also new, it’s possible they were in the process of putting barriers up.
Redtail772@reddit
I agree, but I'm going to bet it was a part 139 airport since it was towered (I know not all towered fields are 139 though).
hawker1172@reddit
Why did you tell him your taxi intentions? It should be as simple as you vacate the runway, tell them where you want to go, and they respond how to get there?
Sounds like you’re overthinking this and getting too involved. They aren’t going to route you down a closed taxiway. At controlled fields these notams aren’t really a big deal.
moxiedoggie@reddit (OP)
Sorry, I didn't tell him the way I wanted to taxi. I got off the runway, after the hold short and said "request taxi to FBO". And that's when they responded in a mean tone "I Need you to turn around and taxi on X now!"
hawker1172@reddit
So he wanted you to vacate on the other side of the runway?
moxiedoggie@reddit (OP)
No. Basically I was exited on the right side of the of the runway facing east (perpendicular and away from the runway I landed on). I was a little forward onto that (closed) taxiway X, and he wanted me to turn 90 degrees left to go north on the (open) taxiway Z. In order to do that, since I was a little forward, I had to turn maybe 120 degrees to the left to then turn right up the taxiway. No need to go back on the runway.
EntroperZero@reddit
Yeah this is the most nothingburger of an event, it's ridiculous that tower would be upset about it. You pulled off the runway, stopped, and asked what to do, he told you which way to taxi, and you taxied that way. Meh.
hawker1172@reddit
Yeah just try to not take any particular direction when you exit the runway. Just get the plane over the hold line and wait for further instructions. I understand in some cases you kinda have to lead one way or the other.
Plastic_Brick_1060@reddit
Ya I agree, "ground, n172774w, off at A4, parking at sky service" and go where they say
moxiedoggie@reddit (OP)
This is exactly what I said.
mikeindeyang@reddit
Could they have issued a NOTAM beforehand but it was inactive at the time so you didn't see it? If I look on foreflight, future NOTAMs are listed but have a "Future" heading. So maybe you saw future and didn't even clock on that future could literally be in a few hours?
It is very rare for a taxiway to suddenly be closed, especially with construction equipment ready to go. Sounds like it was a planned closure.
moxiedoggie@reddit (OP)
all great questions. It could have been under Future and I didn't see it. But to the best of my knowledge, there was nothing in the ATIS either. I've definitely heard "taxi ways A btwn Runway 1 & 19 closed, etc. etc." on atis before, and there was nothing to that effect on the ATIS today.
As I said in another comment, particularly if they wanted to be a helpful tower, they could have just said, once they see me on the roll on the runway "N12345, roll to the end exit right on A" - but I didn't get anything like that so I continued to roll, and exited at the next taxiway, which was a closed one. But since they are presumably watching out the window, they could have watched me starting to do that and told me no, but they let me exit off the runway onto a closed taxiway without saying anything. A little help would have been nice!
bkpilot@reddit
Where did you do your NOTAM check? EFBs like ForeFlight will provide future NOTAMs in their briefing. If you had set at least origin, destination and departure time in FF it will do the math and present “Active during passing” NOTAMs in the briefing. Might be something to consider next time for piece of mind. It doesn’t sound like you did anything wrong.
mikeindeyang@reddit
Yep, I think tower could have been more helpful. And somebody said maybe others have done the same so tower is starting to get annoyed…well if others had done the same maybe by that point tower would be saying vacate via X or Y but Z is closed. Would save a lot of headaches.
moxiedoggie@reddit (OP)
Agreed 100%
timfountain4444@reddit
Yep, happened to me, \~150 NM XC and at the destination airport an airplane landed gear-up and the only runway at my destination was closed. I went to another airport about 10 miles away and rented a car. I found out by tuning to the ATIS about 30 out.
NPBoss18@reddit
Sounds like the controller should have said fyi taxiway X is now closed cleared to land runway #
chuckop@reddit
I can’t remember a time where a tower controller didn’t ask me where I was parking, or told me what taxiway to use.
You are not expected to re-read NOTAMs in flight. If it was that important then the ATIS should have been updated and the tower warned you.
feetbrownie@reddit
I know weird place to ask but what’s HP SEL?
chuckop@reddit
Just trying to fill out the ratings line with as much as I can!
NoConcentrate9116@reddit
High performance and single engine land
moxiedoggie@reddit (OP)
When I was on the base leg, tower asked if I was full stop, which I affirmed. That would have been their opporutnity to say, okay after landing, roll to the end of runway XX
chuckop@reddit
Exactly
Drew1231@reddit
This is when you get back on the radio and tell him you have a number for him to copy.
user06970@reddit
Ive had airports close my required runway on me midflight before, ect ect. Just shitty airport ops control. I usually will try to find an airport manager number and tell them “not cool homie”. Tower wasnt being meanie if he didnt give you a number, but just wanted to prevent anything from happening that would require a number.
Miserable_Team_2721@reddit
Was it listed on the ATIS?
moxiedoggie@reddit (OP)
To the best of my knowledge no, I listened to the atis a bunch of times on my flight in. There was a bunch of crap about birds in the vicinity of the airport but nothing about taxiway closures
KnowLimits@reddit
Birds - in the sky? Chance in a million.
clear_prop@reddit
I've run into a similar problem at the opposite end of the time spectrum.
I did a normal brief for a cross country flight, and during the flight a pax had an urgent need for a bio break. I let ATC know we were diverting to an untowered airport just ahead, pulled up the FIS-B NOTAMs since the airport wasn't part of our earlier briefing and there were no NOTAMs. No AWOS on the field, so no current weather/info.
On descending in and making normal calls, someone comes on and says "hey, do you know XXX airport has been closed for three months?" Turns out it was closed to redo the single runway, and reopened a few months later.
It turns out FIS-B NOTAMs only show the last 30 days of NOTAMs.
I don't expect ATC to know all the NOTAMs for all airports in their airspace, but they should know the airports that are closed. They probably forgot about it being closed since it had been so long, or the duration had it fall out of their system as well.
I ASRS'd it since it is nuts that FIS-B doesn't always show airport/runway closed NOTAMs, no matter how old. Sometimes you have to divert to an unplanned airport that wasn't briefed.
Jaded-Assumption-850@reddit
I flew into KLAA two weeks ago and there was a NOTAM for taxiway A closed between 08/26 and A2. Imagine my surprise when I land on 17/35 and taxi back only to find that 08/26 was ALSO completely closed/barricaded with no NOTAM. I reported it to FSS and there was a NOTAM posted before I got home. Also shoutout to “career track xxx” that was departing before I arrived and didn’t say anything.
prat20009@reddit
Does everyone know about “career track” I thought it was just my airport
satans_little_axeman@reddit
ATP is like the Walmart of flight schools. They're everywhere
49Flyer@reddit
While it seems nothing came of this in your case, your best defense is a call to flight service before departure so it's recorded that you checked and no such NOTAM existed.
moxiedoggie@reddit (OP)
Yeah I know…I should just call wxbrief before every flight, but really does everyone acruallly do that? ForeFlight makes everything so easy…
49Flyer@reddit
No, they don't (myself included) although when I lived in a swing state I sure as hell did during election years. While just checking ForeFlight for NOTAMs doesn't keep any records, I think it might if you actually generate a briefing from the flights page. Even if it doesn't you can email the briefing to yourself; it may not be an "official" source but it still shows you took reasonable steps to comply with 91.103.
YamComprehensive7186@reddit
It should have been on the ATIS, sometimes the important stuff is at the very end, like closures.
_CaptainButthole_@reddit
The only thing I could possibly advise is, if the freq ain’t busy and tower hasn’t given me runway egress instructions, I’ll often state my plan to tower as I’m rolling out, like “planning right Quebec, going to FedEx” so they can advise if they don’t like my plan.
Beyond that though - you really didn’t do anything too wrong. Guy sounds like he was just in a bad mood. I wouldn’t worry about it much!
Schmergenheimer@reddit
Can't say I've ever run into that exact situation, but you should absolutely file a NASA report. Worst case scenario, it'll save you from trouble if you did miss a NOTAM or a mention of it in the ATIS and took a closed taxiway.
If a NOTAM did get issued with nothing mentioned in the ATIS, that's a safety hazard that warrants investigation and possibly a change in the system that requires NOTAM's about closed surfaces be mentioned in the ATIS for at least eight hours (or whatever the longest flight into that airport would be). It's also possible that requirement already exists and tower was at fault and should have someone look at their standards.
hawker1172@reddit
This doesn’t warrant a NASA report. OP deviated from no taxing clearance. Nothing unsafe happened here. A closed marked taxiway is not a safety issue.
Schmergenheimer@reddit
I guess it would depend on why it's closed. For example, a sinkhole might be a pretty big safety reason to close a taxiway. I'm mostly joking, but even if it is for construction and they need to keep aircraft away, it's still more risk to have aircraft turning onto the taxiway only to turn around than to tell them not to go there.
Plus, to my original point, if OP did miss a NOTAM, this would be another statistic for why the system is broken and needs an overhaul.
hawker1172@reddit
If there’s a safety hazard it’s the airport’s responsibility to barricade it.
Schmergenheimer@reddit
The whole point of the system is to mitigate risk, is it not? Is it not riskier to have aircraft turning off the runway onto a closed taxiway and turning around before the barricades than it is to have aircraft notified beforehand so they don't need to turn around at all? Adding taxi time and additional, atypical maneuvers is more risk, correct?
It's not like, "good god, how does someone let something that unsafe happen!??!?!!?" but it is, "hey, here's a potential way to improve the system and make it a little safer."
Knot_a_porn_acct@reddit
No, the point of the system is to communicate and information to pilots that can’t be found other places for whatever reason. Safety items, closures, services that are unavailable, etc.
Notifying the pilot beforehand… like via a controller giving “exit at x” instructions?
Schmergenheimer@reddit
Exactly. OP wasn't told, "exit via..." OP got no additional information, which they probably should have gotten before the point they would have turned off. OP could have gotten it via the ATIS or an instruction, but instead they had this extra maneuver to do.
Knot_a_porn_acct@reddit
What do you mean exactly?? You haven’t alluded to that at all. This. Is not. NASA report. Worthy. Period.
Schmergenheimer@reddit
The whole point of OP's post and my comments is that there was a break in communication, which you agreed with by saying there should have been a "exit via..." instruction.
I feel like I've given a few reasons to file one. Since you're so adamant that OP should not file a report, please give your reasons.
Knot_a_porn_acct@reddit
You have given zero valid reasons to file a report, that on its own is reason enough not to file a report. That alone is reason enough not to file.
Schmergenheimer@reddit
Did you miss the second paragraph of my original comment? That's the reason to file. I've made my argument. Now it's up to you to provide evidence that it's not valid.
Knot_a_porn_acct@reddit
No, I didn’t miss it. I read it and I don’t see your reasoning as a valid reason for filing. You don’t prove negatives.
randombrain@reddit
There was a miscommunication about something which affected or could have affected aviation safety. That absolutely warrants a NASA report. That's the entire purpose of the NASA reporting system.
OP didn't get in trouble, so filing the report isn't necessary to keep them from getting punished for what happened. But that's a secondary purpose of the reporting system.
radioref@reddit
Bruh you don’t need to file a NASA report on this. Come on now…
Schmergenheimer@reddit
OP might not need to, but the whole point of the NASA system is to point out potential safety concerns, is it not? It's a potential risk to have aircraft turning down a closed taxiway, reaching the barricades, and turning around when they could just be notified beforehand. It's not like, "god, how could anyone let something so unsafe happen??!!?!?!?" but it is like, "hey, here's a small thing that could potentially make things a little bit safer."
radioref@reddit
Your threshold is set pretty low for safety issues and NASA reports. I think if my knob was set to your setting, I’d have 8 ASRS reports to file per flight.
Schmergenheimer@reddit
In OP's case, there are two possibilities
OP missed a NOTAM or instruction, and they need to protect themselves, and while they're at it add a statistic to why the NOTAM system needs an overhaul.
OP found a flaw in the system where information that actually is relevant (as opposed to a tower light out 2 miles away) that wasn't communicated due to a gap between receiving NOTAM's and the taxiway being closed.
What are the drawbacks of OP filing one?
YaKkO221@reddit
I’d love to know ICAO and taxiway….
moxiedoggie@reddit (OP)
I’m not going to share it
YaKkO221@reddit
That’s a bummer. I was looking to call you out buy looking at archived and active NOTAMS….
RedneckMtnHermit@reddit
Did he give you a number?
Fuggem. S happens.
ComfortablePatient84@reddit
There are too many controllers at busier airports who fall into a trap that all pilots who operate at "their" airport should know everything ahead of time, and respond instantly and flawlessly to every ATC command regardless of how terse the instruction.
Of course that's unrealistic, but with the majority of traffic being veterans of the airport, it seems to work that way. Then along comes a true cross country arrival and you don't know the local lingo.
I had something similar happen to me when enroute I had gone a long time without hearing anything from ATC. So, I called ATC on the radio. I was hearing other pilots, so my receiver was working. I got no reply. Several minutes later I called again and go an irate controller berating me for "missing" calls. I didn't miss anything. Truth is there was a bad relay in that area -- something I confirmed when I initiated a phone call with the ATC supervisor.
I noted that there is no reason for a controller to berate a pilot on the radio like that, especially when the pilot is initiating the call to reestablish radio contact. The supervisor agreed fully. He added that there were issues with the relay in that sector I was in.
Controllers have to keep their cool. Sorry, but that's the pure truth. No matter what happens, they aren't going to die at work. Putting pilots on edge like that is more than poor form, it is unsafe operations and while I think most controllers know that, there are a few who seem to no longer care.
Plastic_Brick_1060@reddit
Ok, I don't know, you pulled off the runway,called ground before turning onto a taxiway and they yelled at you? It doesn't add up
bhalter80@reddit
When my airport had closed taxiways they had the taxiways signs wrapped in black plastic and they had the low red/white barricades out along with extensive instructions on the ATIS. Sounds like your airport manager deserves a call
moxiedoggie@reddit (OP)
That would be the way to do it. Easy enough to just put a cone out.
coloradoadver@reddit
Easier to just be a dick about it. 🤷🏻
bhalter80@reddit
Sometimes being a dick is fun
High_Flyin89@reddit
Considering this NOTAM popped up, ATC should have asked in flight if you were aware of the NOTAM.
moxiedoggie@reddit (OP)
I guess they don’t know how long ago I got in the air. But it was 10:40 when I landed, and the notam was issued at 9:32. I was in the airplane at 9:15 preflighting and looking at notams one last time.
High_Flyin89@reddit
There might be a requirement somewhere, but IMO, any NOTAM that pops up on the same calendar, or where’s there’s reason to believe an aircrew would not be aware of a NOTAM (short notice), and where there was no advanced notice should really be relayed to aircrew. Again, just my opinion.
autorotater@reddit
Sounds like you, before beginning a flight, became familiar with all available information concerning that flight.
moxiedoggie@reddit (OP)
Ha, yeah, this information was not available before the flight. It's hard to become familair with unavailable information. Or with available information after a flight.
blimeyfool@reddit
OP, the person you're replying to is on your side ... They're saying you did familiarize yourself with all available NOTAMs and this isn't your fault
RadioJockey1222@reddit
Unscheduled closures and outages happen.
If you want piece of mind during your next flight, call FSS and check on NOTAMs.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
I checked NOTAMS before I departed and all seemed good at my destination airport. There was one closed taxiway, but based on the runway I was going to use it wasn't going to affect me. By the time I landed, I got off the runway and taxied clear of the hold short line, called tower with my taxi intentions. The tower responded in a very intense voice that I needed to turn around and go back on another taxiway and go in this roundabout way to the FBO, no big deal, who knows why he was being a big meanie. I did see some construction vehicles in the distance just off that taxiway. By the time he asked me to monitor ground his attitude hadn't gone away. After I got out of the plane, I checked the NOTAMs to be sure I didn't misread the closed taxiway, and sure enough a new NOTAM had been issued while I was in flight closing the exact taxiway that I had vacated onto. I am sure the Tower controller was being mean because of that.
Now, I don't remember hearing anything on the ATIS about the closed taxiway, and the tower controller never said anything about it either. I never got told that I was on a closed taxiway, just sort of thinking why the tower was being so scolding.
I've heard people talk about the "Broken NOTAM system" - surely this is what they mean right? How the hell am I supposed to know about a NOTAM that was issued while in flight if it's not broadcast or shared by the tower?
Maybe I'm venting....
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