The amount of paperwork to actually relocate to a new country is, frankly, staggering.

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katmndoo@reddit

Pick a country that requires less paperwork.

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Sanctioned-PartsList@reddit

Laughs in 2x US PR, 2x US naturalizations, China @0 year tourist visas, 5x+ Japan work visas, and 2x Japan PR applications

Actually the last one was the most straightforward.

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I was pleasantly surprised by Japanese immigration bureaucracy. It gets a ton of shit from Americans coming to teach English who have never had another immigration experience in their life to compare it to, but it's actually pretty smooth.

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Sanctioned-PartsList@reddit

It's a lot better than the US for sure, even though there's a 2 year backlog on PR apps ATM.

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widgetbox@reddit

We've moved countries twice in the past 18 months. Yup - plenty of admin and you've just got to be diligent and plough through it. It's a chore but eventually it's over , or just occasional. Our latest and probably last is France. They luuuurrrve admin here. And we need to get all our docs translated.

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John198777@reddit

In the UK, we call this the "hostile environment". Governments want to make the process difficult in the hope that it will reduce the immigration numbers. However, once you are "in the system" (you have your local social security and tax numbers etc.) things are pretty straight forward. Good luck.

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lucylemon@reddit

Shock…. Right? How dare they!

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RexManning1@reddit

If you’re not an American trying to get a bank account in a different country, there’s another level you won’t ever experience and consider yourself lucky.

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Ok_Magician_3884@reddit

Hahahahaha I opened a bank account last week in France and I had to go there for 5 times casue they have messed up my name.

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brooklynaut@reddit

It took us 6 tries. What worked best for us was to find someone that would say yes, I'll help you get through all of the paperwork. Now we're looking at local mortgages and we have to go through that whole process again.

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RexManning1@reddit

That sucks. I paid cash for my house. Foreigners in Thailand cannot get loans for landed property no matter how much money they have.

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brooklynaut@reddit

I'd love to be able to do that right now, but I don't think it would be a good idea for us. But we're looking into options.

& back to the OP - a lot of it actually does get easier. Our 2nd visa renewal was a walk by comparison and as frustrating as it might all be, I don't really mind anymore.

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RexManning1@reddit

Sometimes there are no options, which is what I was getting at.

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fjortisar@reddit

Not universally. I have not had any issues opening a bank account, I've just had to fill out a w-9 and nothing more than that other than typical bank paperwork. The only places that have refused me are fintechs

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unsurewhattochoose@reddit

Me too, I asked around and found out which bank wouldn't give me trouble, filled out 1 form, and done

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RexManning1@reddit

You are an outlier. It's a fucking nightmare. Very common to be refused accounts by banks. Even if you tell them you will transfer in $1m. That's how much they don't want to deal with the regulatory compliance.

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CaptainCosmodrome@reddit

In Denmark, banks are not required to provide you with an account, and they actually don't want to when you're an immigrant.

And to get your CPR number that you need for work and for benefits like medical care, you need an address in Denmark, which has to be an apartment if you aren't a resident, and your landlord is going to require that you have a bank account so you can, you know, pay your rent in Kroner.

But the bank also needs your CPR number before they will give you an account, so that is a living nightmare.

After all the research I've done, I think they like to make it difficult to do so that only people who really, really want to move there will make it past all the bureaucracy.

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Correct_Blackberry31@reddit

It's why a lot of Americans (at least in Switzerland) are ditching their nationality when they acquire a new one

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Catcher_Thelonious@reddit

It used to be so much easier but as travel became less expensive and more common, fraud increased and more regulations and requirements were introduced.

As a group, humans are rather pathetic.

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spekoek@reddit

Then the drama is also special.

Dutch town hall looked at my US birth certificate with a fresh apostille and kept claiming it must be fake.

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stupidFlanders417@reddit

It gets even more fun when you start getting to the paperwork in the new country while not having a full grasp of the language 🙂

But, if my dumb ass can do it, anyone can. You got this.

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Natural_Positive369@reddit

Where did you move?

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Chuco54Chingona@reddit

I’m gathering documents for a UK spousal visa. The relationship proof is killing me as we have to prove all 29 years of our marriage. I figured the birth certificates of our children would be enough but they want more. Who keeps documents for that length of time? There’s plenty more to provide throughout the five year visa process and it’s completely bewildering.

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Maleficent-Test-9210@reddit

If you filed joint taxes, that should be enough.

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mandance17@reddit

What a luxury to only complain about papers when getting to move to a new country of your choosing

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Catcher_Thelonious@reddit

When many might be facing guns, rape, drowning, asphyxiation...

Yeah.

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Maleficent-Test-9210@reddit

Yeah. Perpective, y'all.

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Creative_Yellow_6029@reddit

Tell me about it - I do this for a living.

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letitrollpanda@reddit

And once you get there, you're treated as a second rate citizen because you have no history of addresses, credit rating and you don't know basic things that are assumed knowledge (like how a boiler works, because you have never to know before). It's all part of the fun ;-)

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Fat_and_lazy_nomad@reddit

And just a reminder to bring extra copies, extra apostilles, etc in case you need more while in your new country. We have a binder of extras for renewals or moving to a new country.

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BrokilonDryad@reddit

What are apostilles? Never heard of that before.

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Science_Teecha@reddit

An apostille is like a notarization, but international.

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Ok_Cress_56@reddit (OP)

An apostille is a physical seal put on a document by the government that issued the document, which then other countries can look at to verify that they can trust it.

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BrokilonDryad@reddit

Huh. Never heard of the word. Learn something new every day! Like I know notarized of course but that’s a word I’ve never once encountered.

So why do you need these apostilles? I moved to Taiwan from Canada and never encountered them but Canada often has easy visa relations with other countries.

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eriggs5280@reddit

Not all countries participate in the apostille process. USA does, Canada doesn’t. Whatever notarization your docs went through is the Canadian version of apostille. 😎

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dballing@reddit

Apostilles are often used on documents where there's no easy way for the other country to verify things.

For example, when I was getting Irish citizenship, if my birth certificate was issued by New York State, then it didn't require apostille. Ireland somehow knows how to validate "this is a real, valid, New York State birth certificate". But since my birth certificate was issued by a County Clerk, the birth certificate had to be sent to the apostille office in Albany who would affix a seal and say (essentially) "by our seal which you know and trust, this seal from a lower clerk is valid."

It's a way (in my experience anyway) for a higher level of government to assert the validity of a document issued by a lower level of government.

And so - since getting apostilled documents is a pain (you need to get the originals from your lower-level office, send them to the state level office, etc.) we did as described upthread -- every document we needed we ordered N+2, in case one got lost, in case we just needed a spare, in case it wasn't returned to us, etc., etc.

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BrokilonDryad@reddit

Huh, that’s neat! I’ve never encountered anything like that. I’m sure Canada does have a similar structure in governance but I certainly haven’t encountered it. Thanks for explaining!

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Poorly_disguised_bot@reddit

There's actually an international agreement (the Apostille Convention) that most countries are parties to that makes the process somewhat easier. Especially for business transactions where you need certified copies/notarized versions of key documents.

It can get super complicated. Especially with small British protectorates, for example.

You can have a document notarized in BVI. The Apostille can recognize the notarization (legalisation), they then stamp the document. You can then use the document in one of the Apostille Convention countries (like Canada).

If you can't use an Apostille (like if you want to use a BVI document in Taiwan). You get the document notarized in BVI. The Apostille legalises the document. You then need the physical legalised document to be legalized again by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (recognising the authority of the Apostille). Then the physical document needs to be legalized again by the consulate of the country you're looking to use it in (to recognize the legalization of the FCO). By which point you've spent a whole lot of money, everyone's angry at why things are taking so long, and you've forgotten what you were trying to achieve in the first place.

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ThisAdvertising8976@reddit

I understand for renewals, but if moving to another country wouldn’t it all start over, or at least the translations?

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boxesofcats@reddit

Much of it requires a fresh start or a document issued within the last 6 months but there are a few documents I’ve used across many moves. Not every country requires translations from English.

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Techters@reddit

Not just moving in! I've been trying to cancel my health insurance, Bank account, cell phone, and Internet in Spain since April, getting monthly charges every month, hundreds of calls and emails, faxing documents to international numbers that just go into nowhere.

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tinfoilfascinator@reddit

I own a printer now simply due to the sheer amount of nonsense I've had to provide copies of over the years. If you wind up getting dual citizenship it will eventually all be worth it though.

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petermanbill@reddit

Nothing says adventure quite like staring down a stack of notarized forms and wondering if it’s all just a prank by the universe.

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mimundolove@reddit

The real rite of passage isn’t the move it’s surviving the bureaucracy without losing your will to live.

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brooklynaut@reddit

you get comfortable (kind of) with dossiers. Where are you moving to?

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Correct_Blackberry31@reddit

For France to Switzerland, I had like 1 form to fill, 1 picture to take, 1 bank account to open, 1 health insurance to take, that's all

Was honestly less complicated than planning a trip to the USA or Russia

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Ok_Magician_3884@reddit

I have 100 forms to fill moving from Greece to France

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kiefer-reddit@reddit

Yes and this is why I always recommend that any expats seriously moving somewhere hire a local lawyer, translator, etc. It will cost you some money, but it will smooth the process to a degree that you won’t believe, especially if you first try to do everything yourself.

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djmom2001@reddit

All I can say is research your hand holder/advisor. I know several people who have been given terrible advice by hand holders, and know of many who were scammed by another one in particular who took their money, did not provide the service, and set them back by months and months.

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kiefer-reddit@reddit

Yep, be sure to research them beforehand.

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SiscoSquared@reddit

Really depends on the country and type of visa. I had to do almost none of this when I moved to Germany or Italy. Passport, proof of employment, and some local German stuff like Abmeldung. However I saw and helped with my sister in laws visa to Canada and the package was over 200 pages long so Yea lol varies massively.

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dballing@reddit

Germany sounds like a crapshoot. I had a co-worker who moved from Ireland to Germany, and she spent so much time dealing with paperwork (and that's with our employer's relocation-lawyers handling lots of it for her) that she eventually gave up and moved back to Ireland.

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SiscoSquared@reddit

Weird, Germany was very easy in terms of paperwork for me, I did both a student visa and later a work visa sponsored visa, both were very straight forward. A couple of appointments and a few forms and that was that.

Italy though was a nightmare though, not because of the paperwork but because you had to play games and constantly pressure and annoy people to get anything done, though I hear it's less problematic in the north.

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gadgetvirtuoso@reddit

If not even the paperwork it’s getting it apostilled and translated that’s the real work. The background checks were easy enough from the state and FBI but the time waiting for the US State Department to do their part is crazy. Then paying for all the translations.

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labpro@reddit

How do you request the background checks?

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gadgetvirtuoso@reddit

Google it they will give you the finger print form and how to submit it. It’s varies by state. Some can do it digitally other mail in.

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emlagjr@reddit

It's time consuming, but it's the most important part. Trust the process, even if it takes 100 or more paperwork to fill up.

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codacoda74@reddit

Reminds of the joke on why divorce is so expensive: because it's worth it! Just be methodical, what problem can you fix right now.

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HagOfTheNorth@reddit

It’s true. And with every hurdle you ask yourselves “isn’t it someone’s job to tell us this stuff?” But no. It is no one’s job.

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blahblah19999@reddit

If you hire a local attorney...

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btt101@reddit

Philippines enters the room. 😂🤣

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Mindless-Energy3872@reddit

Oh, the dreaded Apostille. In my country, there's only one location per region where you can get the document stamped. That means everyone from the area has to go to this single office to certify their documents. And the cost is around 20e per document! I had five Proofs of Residency from the tax authority (one for each year in relation to the DTA), so of course the cost was 5 x 20.

And then you have to get the documents translated - and since the Apostille is on the back page of the document it now counts as two pages for translation purposes. So instead of translating five pages, I'm now translating ten. I completely believe everyone deserves to make a living from their work comfortably, but at some point, it starts to feel like you're being ripped off.

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Mango-United@reddit

To be honest the hardest part is starting. the paper work is minimal compared to the amount of time In between Turning in said paper work vs the time they take to review and approve and god forbid tell u ur missing something but not really tell you till you call a few weeks later to follow up lol. Spain I assume is famous for that when I moved here it was a ton of paperwork but lawyers in this country are a fraction of the price as one from the US so maybe look into that

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numb3rsnumb3rs@reddit

Reason 1354 why I laugh whenever someone says “moving to another country isn’t THAT hard…”

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badlydrawngalgo@reddit

I spent a good 2 or 3 years researching the countries we could move to, then narrowing it down to those we would want to move to and then chosing the one we did move to. Then another year putting things in place to make that move possible, scouting locations to move to, getting my house really to sell, getting bank accounts, accommodation, tax numbers in my new country. Then for the next 12 months (or so I thought), I treated the move as a project management job, selling my house, getting all of the paperwork in order, getting the visa, residency, health number, buying a car, getting a driving licence etc. Nearly 2 years later, we're settled and it's the best thing I've ever done. It's a lot of work but hugely rewarding to craft the life you want to live from the ground up.

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Creative-Road-5293@reddit

Wait until you get there. It's going to be even more.

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apc961@reddit

Varies a lot by country. I've never had to get something apostiled. Notarizing is usually straightforward. The tough one, especially if you have lived in several countries, is background checks. Some countries will process these through their embassies now, but many will not.

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sfdragonboy@reddit

Well, anything really worth it is going to take some work. I am going to Malaysia and have already bought my seaside condo. Yes, a lot of work and expense but I look forward to sipping wine on my balcony that sees just water from side to side. Good luck!

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i-love-freesias@reddit

Hire an agent, take it one thing at a time.

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Dojyorafish@reddit

Yeah I stopped counting after 35 documents.

And that’s before I even landed in the new country.

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hungry-axolotl@reddit

I agree lol

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MPD1987@reddit

I started my paperwork in June 2022 and I’m still doing it. No really, I have forms on my desk right now that need to be sent to my immigration lawyer. It’s relentless.

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Unique-Gazelle2147@reddit

Jesus. Which country?

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MPD1987@reddit

Canada

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Zonoc@reddit

You've got this! For us it got significantly easier once we were in country for 3 months.

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deedeeEightyThree@reddit

You’re right. You have to be extremely motivated and dedicate countless hours to the process. And, quite frankly, it costs a ton of money…. And the locals aren’t always excited to have new immigrant neighbors, to put it mildly. Relocating to a new country is not for the faint of heart….. my gosh, it’s worth it. - a fam of 4 who relocated

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SaffronSimian@reddit

What is the new country!?