Seacocks help!

Posted by DensLeonis@reddit | sailing | View on Reddit | 22 comments

I've just bought this yacht, and in my naivety I hadn't checked the seacocks before purchase. I've been thoroughly checking and overhauling anything that needs doing before getting her in the water. Although this might set me back a few months in cost.

I could do with some expertise here. I'd hoped they were Blake's bronze with the age of the boat and lots being original, and had just intended to service the lot. Instead I have one with a gate valve for the head that is pretty seized. I don't dare attempt to free it up more for fear of snapping it. A new looking ball valve next to it, presumably for the water in for the head. That moves freely.

Then two in the cockpit, both move, although, one feels quite gritty.

My question is, I'd like to get her out early next year. Will these do for a season, perhaps with a service, if they can be? Then just get them changed at the end of it, or will they be unsafe to the point it'd be too risky?

I've already got some softwood bungs at the ready 👀

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SwvellyBents@reddit

Any thru hull valve you can't close is unsafe. You might consider driving a pine plug into the outside of the gate valve thru hull to be safe until you haul in the spring, but then you have to worry if the plug stayed in during that winter storm.

Why not haul now and get it over with?

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DensLeonis@reddit (OP)

I wrote that pretty poorly it seems! She's out of the water at the moment on the hard standing. I was just hoping to get her back in around Feb for a season before adding yet another repair to the list before actually getting to sail her 🤔

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twentycharactersdown@reddit

Replace/thoroughly inspect the seacocks while you're out of the water. This should be very high priority while you're out of the water. Most other jobs can be done in the water.

Looks like the hull is ferro cement? This boat is new to you, so it's also nice to check the state of the hull at the thru-hulls. Have you ever had her in the water? Replacing seacocks(or just taking them out and putting them back in) is not rocket science, can be awkward, but usually not too time-consuming. Don't ruin your next season by having to worry about the seacocks every minute. A lot of repairs on boats are for peace of mind. Get into it now while you're out of the water, you won't regret it.

I replaced about 6 beautiful, sturdy bronze seacocks/thru-hull fittimgs (they were old, thicker and higher quality than what's on the market these days) with tru-design seeacocks. The originals were 100% fine, and the hull was in great condition at the thru-hulls. Maybe it was a waste of time and money. But when we were 1000 miles offshore and 2 weeks from land, I wasn't worried about the seacocks.

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SwvellyBents@reddit

I'd add replacing the gate valve to the list. Sorry!

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d3adfr3d@reddit

The gate valve needs to go

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Necessary_Salad_69@reddit

Just for future reference, gate valves can be checked for open/close by looking at the shaft. The shaft will show more if the valve is open, and less if it’s closed. I agreed tho, they are harder to tell

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d3adfr3d@reddit

Is the gate valve pictured her open or closed?

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Necessary_Salad_69@reddit

This looks closed to me. The shaft between the bottom of the handle and the packing-nut bolt isn’t very long. That stem has to rise and fall out of the valve. If it was open, you should be able to see more of that shaft coming out of the valve

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d3adfr3d@reddit

I think you understand the point I'm trying to make here.

Your response underscores why gate valves are not suitable for marine installations. I would assume the same thing; closed. It's a very reasonable assumption. However, it is not possible to look at that picture and tell if it is open, closed, or partially open. No one can look at that valve and say what position it is in.

The stem on the gate valve for the hose in my back yard does not increase or decrease in length when opened or closed, for example. The gate valve under the sink in my house does.

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Necessary_Salad_69@reddit

That’s because household valves are usually non-rising stem gate valves. Pictured is a rising stem gate valve. You need to pay attention to the size difference of a waterhose be a raw water vlave. While I agree, a ball valve would be easier and quicker to operate…. That doesn’t help anyone with a gate valve that is stuck and they can’t figure out the position.

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That_One_Third_Mate@reddit

OP gate valves are absolutely not used for “metering” or throttling. They absolutely are used in marine service in certain applications. The idea of being able to “visually tell” if the valve is open is not limited to a handle being positioned. On tankers, oftentimes valves may be connected to their wheels by a reach rod and to make it easier to tell the position of the valve, we use a spliced line that is either tied to the valve wheel to show closed or left off to show open. Also, not sure about this size but there do exist rising stem gate valves which give you indication of the valve position.

Corrosion oftentimes comes from pairing incompatible metals with different levels of inert-ness. Dissimilar metal contact in the presence of an electrolyte (like salt) is going to transfer electrons and corrode your stuff. Hard to tell but a good tell tale is some of your components are rusted and others are not and both are filled with liquid/connected

I’d buy a corrosion resistant metal and keep it consistent between all components. Oftentimes in commercial service to maintain lower costs, we will strategically use materials like stainless to preserve expensive or difficult to reach items and pair them with consumable/easy to replace mild components, knowing that they will eventually rot out but are inexpensive/easy to replace. May not have the same use for through hull fittings on the sea-side of the valve but could be done inboard of that where you can use the valve and a blank to isolate the seawater. You get the idea.

Source- commercial merchant officer/tankerman

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Toginator@reddit

The problem with corrosion is you really don't know. The inside surfaces facing the water are the ones you need to watch for.

Also, a gate valve should never be used for a thru hull. They are designed for metering flow not controlling.

Best advise i can give is pull the boat, then take off and have the thru hulls inspected. I really like marelon thru hulls since they are made from a tough plastic that doesn't corrode and are self lubricating. https://www.fisheriessupply.com/forespar-marelon-full-flow-seacock-with-mushroom-thru-hull

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DensLeonis@reddit (OP)

Definitely already a consensus on the gate valve. I'll get that replaced. Thanks for the reply! I'll have the others inspected too.

I'm a little wary about going for marelon or trudesign types as I'm quite heavy handed. I'd rather something that I can trust in its strength. I don't mind the maintenance so much. It'll just be a part of the yearly ritual.

I'm wondering if that still makes full bronze tapered barrel types, but I'm not having much luck finding any yet

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Toginator@reddit

If you can break marelon, I'd be impressed. It's a fiberglass reinforced part. The bronze stuff is much more delicate. I went with the marelon because of how tough it is and how much it will stand up to abuse.

Tapered barrels have gone the way of tramp steamers.

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d3adfr3d@reddit

Just anecdotal experience, but as someone who installs and removes seacocks for a living, marelon is objectively not tougher than bronze.

Marelon has its merits, to be sure. But if we're picking which valve is going to stand up to more abuse, it's bronze by a country mile.

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CulpablyRedundant@reddit

Haha, I was going to dig up the post and add "there was a good writeup by another user about this" and then I realized it was you!

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Saltyoldseadog55@reddit

trudesign has a collar that can be put over most seacocks for added strength.

i'll be converting my thruhulls to trudesign at the next haulout. my black water seacock is seized closed and i don't dare try to force it open. thankfully the tank is an easy pump out topside.

i've figured that it's less than $100 per thruhull to replace. cheap job for me as i only have 4 to do.

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d3adfr3d@reddit

Blake's and spartan make taper barrel style seacocks

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oshitimonfire@reddit

I was taught that gate valves are not for metering flow, and that they should only be used fully open or fully closed. Could you explain what you mean? Would like to learn more

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doedelflaps@reddit

I'm in the middle of removing my old gate valves, it's not as hard as it seems. I'd start by checking if you can unscrew the valve from the through hull. If the through hulls are bronze they're probably find and can be re-used. I was unable to unscrew a couple of them so I just grinded away the through hull on the outside and removed the entire unit. I replaced them with bronze through hulls and proper valves. I looked at trudesign but they were too large for my engine room unfortunately. It's totally doable in a weekend or 2!

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steampunktomato@reddit

Out of the seacocks you show, most of them aren't even real seacocks and all but one need to be replaced like, years ago. They all should be removed anyway to be sure, as long as you have the boat out of the water.

What are they all for? You could maybe eliminate one or two and glass over the disused holes, save a bit of money.The engine definitely needs a dedicated seacock, and you don't want to combine a sink drain with any intake for example, but think about what can be combined.

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light24bulbs@reddit

Fuuuck..gate valves