My work friend's jury service has been cancelled. He's planning to not tell work and have 2 weeks off. Is he likely to get found out?

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minty1120@reddit

Depends on company policy. We ask our employees to complete the loss of earnings form from the courts at the end of their service. Once the payments have been made to the employee - we top it up to ensure they get covered for their usual salary.

So we would ask for proof of the payment into their bank and then work out the difference. We can use that to clarify how many days they did, as it’s a set amount for each day completed you can claim back.

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made-of-questions@reddit

It raises the question, why are they even doing this instead of taking unpaid time off?

Very few companies will cover the full salary for two weeks. They don't have to pay anything. You can only recover up to £64.95 per day for the first 10 days of jury service directly from the gov, which they obviously can't in this case.

So they are essentially taking unpaid time off. In the UK, parents are entitled to up to 18 weeks of unpaid parental leave for each child, until the child's 18th birthday. With 4 kids they could take loads of unpaid time off.

If the company voluntarily pays something during jury duty they would ask to see his loss of earnings payments so they top off that rather than double paying the employee.

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spacehoppergonepop@reddit

On my jury service the vast majority were getting full pay from their companies.

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made-of-questions@reddit

> _(Your employer can choose whether or not to pay you during your service)[https://www.gov.uk/jury-service/what-you-can-claim-if-youre-an-employee]._
Certainly good if the company covers it. It's something more people should check on the list of benefits when getting hired. Even though rare, some cases can go on for month and months and that can be debilitating. Even benefits/UC stop paying after 8 weeks.

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throwaway_t6788@reddit

i doubt companies would pay full salary if more than 2 weeks..

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spacehoppergonepop@reddit

Large companies will. There is two-tier employment in UK. It’s fashionable to knock multinationals for all sorts of (mostly made up) reasons, but many of them know how to look after their people, and have the funds to do so. 6 months forces call up: full pay. 6 months paternity: full pay. Jury duty: full pay. Civic responsibility means something, even if you cynically conclude it is based on talent retention rather than altruistic reasons, it’s still happening. Honestly felt guilty about the few on the jury who were self employed or not getting company pay. Not bad enough to chip in of course!

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InfectedFrenulum@reddit

I did Jury service about a decade ago and was paid nothing. It was in December and on a minimum wage job, too. Just what I needed before Christmas.

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Andy_Roid@reddit

You can get out of it by saying it would cause you undue financial hardship.

But also, if the fine for not turning up is less than the lost earnings, just take the fine.

Its a joke its not paid out at whatever you'd be made whole at..

An "Injustice" even.

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SpudFire@reddit

I find it ridiculous that employers aren't forced to pay their employees whilst they're on jury service. It's not even like it would cost most employers much because it's so rare for people to go on jury service. Maternity pay would cost them a lot more.

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made-of-questions@reddit

Small businesses often operate with a very thin margin. If the case lasts months paying an entirely new person could bankrupt them. There's a case where a jury was brought together for more than two years.

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bh460@reddit

Yes but then you just say thst the business covers the standard two weeks and can reclaim anything longer than that.

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majesticray@reddit

So how are jurors supposed to survive 2 years of service without pay?

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made-of-questions@reddit

Valid question. It is indeer a ridiculous situation. But I think the burden for offering (proper) support should be on the gov not on a random private business that had absolutely nothing to do with the case.

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Andy_Roid@reddit

100% Agree.

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OverstuffedCherub@reddit

I have had to send emails on behalf of two of our staff members in the last couple of years to state that they were a vital part of our team, and not having them in on scheduled days would cause hardship for us as a small business, so to call/email and explain financial hardship or issues, they are usually happy to help. They usually "call" more people than are required anyway, to account for unavailable people. It doesn't hurt anyone to ask the questions!

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ParsnipFlendercroft@reddit

I told them to do one when I was called up and a contractor. No way I could have afford 2 weeks on what they pay. They could have let me offset it against tax or something - but they don’t so I told them I could do it.

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Questpineapple-1111@reddit

You can excuse yourself from jury service for reasons such as this. If it would put you under financial strain.

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TimeInitial0@reddit

Mine was a decade ago and i was paid by the court, so this sounds wrong.

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zapering@reddit

I think they mean by their company.

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TimeInitial0@reddit

I see; yeah thats at the companies discretion. My company paid me a top up to the courts daily pittance, so i would still receive the same monthly income i was used too.

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46AndTwo2@reddit

I don't know where you're basing this on when you say "very few companies"... Lots of employers will pay their staff full wage during duty service.

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made-of-questions@reddit

I've been comparing internal policies of about 50 companies when we set up ours. Almost all that did pay have a limit of maximum 1-2 weeks on full pay. After that you're on your own. Depends if you consider that to be covered or not. I'm not sure what's the typical length for jury service.

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SarcasticDevil@reddit

Tbf I got full pay and didn't have to show something at the end. Then again our HR team is beyond overstretched so they likely had bigger fish to fry

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ReluctantBlonde@reddit

Same, my trial was 6 weeks and the sentencing was a month later, all paid special leave. Had to show my summons beforehand, but wasn’t asked to prove where I had been, it was taken on trust. Mind you, it was during Covid so everyone was a bit distracted

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ChelseaAndrew87@reddit

Thankfully my work paid mine in full. Could just enjoy the two weeks and have some lunches paid for by the government

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throwaway_t6788@reddit

wtf.. i didnt know you could do that.. no contract has ever mentioned this either.

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thefootster@reddit

I got full pay when I did it, so did my wife and a few friends I know who did it.

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made-of-questions@reddit

It was good from the company to cover that. We offer up to 7 days full pay, but can't do any more than that. Some cases take 6 months to conclude.

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Supernatural3456@reddit

He’s an absolute idiot, it’s not worth the risk with 4 kids to provide for.

He could be recalled in a few weeks/months time and have to explain himself, a slip of the tongue, he’s told you, how many others?

At the end of the day it’s his decision to make but he’s risking his job so the sake of 2 weeks off… just take holiday or unpaid leave if it’s that important to him

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parkscon@reddit (OP)

That's what I can't get my head around. Although 2 kids are now older and just left school, it's just not worth the risk. I have 2 kids myself and would be worried sick about being found out. The money is good for what we do, so I don't think he would be able to get a job for anywhere close to what he gets now.

I've got the rest of the week to try and talk some sense into him.

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jaynoj@reddit

Why is it your responsibility to stop them from making mistakes?

I know this goes against the grain but caretaking others isn't good for anyone.

They're adults who can make their own decisions. If they make bad ones, then they will have to learn from them and grow instead of others catching them before they take a fall.

Leave them to it.

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libdemparamilitarywi@reddit

They're friends, so he probably cares about him. Probably cares about the friends young children too who would be negatively affected by him losing his job.

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parkscon@reddit (OP)

Exactly this. I've talked to him today and he's still going ahead with it. I've done what I can now.

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Certain_Silver6524@reddit

tell him this:

jurors receive a certificate or some form of documentation upon completion of their jury service, which they can provide to their employer as proof of service

https://www.justanswer.co.uk/employment-law/oop88-does-employer-right-call-jury-office.html

My colleague had to do it, to get paid for the missed days of work

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Waynenov72@reddit

Yes. Won't get paid. As work will want compensation for missed time and this is done with proof of attendance at the court

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OG-87@reddit

Yeah that’s what I had to do but as it was only a couple of hours in the morning I didn’t bother as I was on annual leave and got excused.

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Deadened_ghosts@reddit

I'd rather not let his 4 kids suffer because of his dumb decision.

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iwantfutanaricumonme@reddit

Plus people that would brag about their schemes to you would definitely blame you for not stopping them when things go wrong.

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Any-Plate2018@reddit

It's not his responsibility, but he's his friend and people who aren't sociopaths care for their friends.

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jobblejosh@reddit

I mean, it's not their responsibility.

But equally, there's nothing wrong with ensuring someone is aware of the potential consequences of their actions. I'd want a colleague or friend to tell me if I was doing something which might have an outcome I hadn't considered.

There's no sense in making an avoidable mistake because it's your own life. There's a difference between caretaking and informing.

As a species one of our biggest advantages is that we share information; it's literally how our society developed from apes in a cave.

At the end of the day, it's the colleague's decision to make. Just as long as they are suitably informed about all the potential outcomes to allow them to make an informed decision.

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PatFenis1992@reddit

Bro why don’t you just mind your own business?

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centzon400@reddit

I've got the rest of the week to try and talk some sense into him.

Just point him to this thread, and save yourself a week.

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PeterOHanra@reddit

Mine was cancelled the week before it was due, but I was told I wouldn't be called for another year.

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anotherMrLizard@reddit

It would still look damn suspicious to get called twice in the space of a couple of years.

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FPS_Scotland@reddit

Damn suspicious, but not unheard of, nor impossible.

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OG-87@reddit

I’ve been called about 4/5 times in a year. They call me quite often but I’ve not been able to go since 2019. I’m always flying or in another country without fail. I got really lucky in 2019 as if I didn’t have to sit for long till I got excused. I would have missed seeing my family at Xmas and then didn’t see them again for about 10/11 months due to covid.

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skinofadrum@reddit

I've had two summons this year - one in March and one for December. Didn't get selected in March, and we'll see how December goes...

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NewfoundRepublic@reddit

Guilty

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anotherMrLizard@reddit

The other things is you can ask to be excused if you've done it within 2 years, so his employer might wonder why he's not done that.

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kai_enby@reddit

Not everyone knows that. My partner's manager was complaining to her that he'd been called twice in 2 years and she had to tell him he could get excused

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Bad_UsernameJoke94@reddit

"Better than working here, innit"

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plasticface2@reddit

Suspicion be damned, sir.

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chrissie64@reddit

My husband was called three times, don't think it was as close together as that but close enough. Last case was so harrowing, the jury was apparently told they would be excluded from being called for some time (sorry, can't remember full details and he is not here to ask any more).

OP's friend is a total idiot - I might expect this from someone in their early twenties but with four kids, I am assuming he is old enough to know better

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NeverMidnight1159@reddit

I've been summoned twice twelve months apart

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Dimac99@reddit

I was called 3 times before I was 30. Meanwhile most people are never called in their entire lives.

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AdThat328@reddit

It happened to my friend in Uni, she got called not long after we started and then again about a third of the way through second year. It does happen but it's rare.

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DuckMagic@reddit

I moved address two months after finishing jury service and got called up again to my new local court lol. Thankfully they let me sit it out but my boyfriend got the summons (same address) a few weeks after.

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GlitchingGecko@reddit

He could be recalled in a few weeks/months time

If that happens, I suspect he'd come down with a particularly bad case of Covid/Norovirus.

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Willsagain2@reddit

He'd need a fit note from day 8

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GyroscopicReality@reddit

Could take a day or two off sick and get refused. Claim to be racist or something

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Motor_Line_5640@reddit

You can literally get one online or just ask your GP. Mine don't even ask to see you.

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SpikeGolden@reddit

How do you get one online

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Adhesiveduck@reddit

It’s surgery specific and not all will offer it but check your surgery’s website.

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Motor_Line_5640@reddit

No, you can literally get them online from doctors doing them privately for extra cash. Updoc, livi, zoomdoc etc.

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Clive__Warren@reddit

What's updoc?

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Shrider@reddit

Nothing patient, what's up with you?

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plasticface2@reddit

Quality

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AnonymousWeasel69@reddit

And mine 🤣

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DingDingDom@reddit

Take my upvote, legend 😂😂😂

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Neddykins82@reddit

I've offset one of your down votes with a cheeky upvote x

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lookingforinfoonit@reddit

He would only need to be unavailable for the first few days until they pick the jury.

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CarriageLock@reddit

Not necessarily, you can be selected for several cases within the two weeks. I sat on three cases the first time and two on the second.

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ZanzibarGuy@reddit

Yea, this. I sat reading books for 9 days, and then got selected to sit on a case for 3 months.

I'm not sure if companies can still do it, but mine paid me as if I was working and then claimed it back from the government - there was no way I'd sit out of work for that long if they were only going to pay me the standard allowance. Obviously if this was a possible way of it still working the friend of OP would be found out as soon as the company submitted a claim.

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open-d-slide-guy@reddit

My aunt was called to Jury service in the High Court in Edinburgh, and ended up on a massive drug trafficking case that lasted almost 9 months! She was delighted, she was a housewife whose children were all at least at highschool age, and my uncle was an old school chauvinistic prick, who expected his dinner waiting on him, and refused to make tea for himself since that was her job. She was sequestered in a hotel along with the rest of the jury for the whole of the case because of the likelihood of jury intimidation. She was advised she could probably request to be released right at the start due to her kids, but she said no, because she thought it was time they learned independence, her husband included. She was some woman! 😂

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DrMangosteen2@reddit

OPs colleague panicking on day 7 and just starts interrupting and shouting guilty

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voluotuousaardvark@reddit

If my last bout of norovirus lasted 2 weeks I don't think I'd have made it.

24 hours already made it feel like I'd shit myself inside out.

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GlitchingGecko@reddit

My husband had it after eating Subway. He still can't eat salami or drink Diet Coke and it's been 15 years.

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voluotuousaardvark@reddit

I totally understand how he feels. I'd had pork belly and rice and can't stand to eat pork belly since.

Used to be one of my favourites too :(

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Buddy-Matt@reddit

That'll just defer it, not cancel it

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GlitchingGecko@reddit

Nah, I meant he'd tell work that.

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Buddy-Matt@reddit

Ah, fair enough. Can only self certify for 1 week though, so still not the greatest plan

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GlitchingGecko@reddit

Not exactly hard to phone up the GP and cough a lot and say you have Covid symptoms. They've been drummed into our heads the past 4 years. Most GP's don't even care about seeing you as long as you're not a repeat offender.

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SnackGrabber@reddit

Sometimes jury service can go on for months not just days! Mine was 3 weeks

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ButteredCoffeeBean@reddit

The correct lazy thing to do is take the morning off and ring just before lunch and tell your boss that the bloody idiots have cancelled jury service. If you're lucky you'll get the rest of the afternoon off or at least have had a cheeky Monday morning

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R1ch0C@reddit

That's so brilliant I love it

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JLB_cleanshirt@reddit

Good thinking

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SoloMarko@reddit

he’s told you, how many others?

And you told the world. Lol

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Top_Buffalo83@reddit

He’s an absolute legend

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Forward-Net-8335@reddit

the sake of 2 weeks off… just take holiday or unpaid leave if it’s that important to him

That's half a year's time off, if you're lucky. People deserve far more free time.

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yetanotherredditter@reddit

The legal minimum holiday entitlement for a full time worker in the UK is 28 days, including bank holidays. Even if you choose to exclude bank holidays, that's still 4 weeks. There's no "if you're lucky" about it.

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c_dug@reddit

4 calendar weeks, nearly 6 full working weeks.

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yetanotherredditter@reddit

Tbf, I meant the 4 weeks part in relation to excluding bank holidays, (which would be 20 days, or 4 working weeks). But yes

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LoopandLoom@reddit

Absolutely

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No_Pineapple9166@reddit

How is your “friend” planning to explain it when he gets called up again in a few months? You, sorry your friend, will get found out yes.

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OG-87@reddit

Bad luck. I get called multiple times a year. This would be my first in 4 years it’s not happened.

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BeatificBanana@reddit

Why are a lot of people in this thread assuming OP is really the one that the post is about, and that the "friend" is fictitious? Genuinely asking, I have autism so hints and signs are often lost on me

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mij8907@reddit

Because sometimes when people ask for advice for a friend they’re trying to avoid admitting it’s them that’s in the situation

In this case OP might be pretending it’s a friend because they don’t want to admit they’re thinking of lying to the company they work for

There’s nothing in the post itself that indicates this is the case and nothing the OP has said makes me think it’s them not a friend that has been called for jury duty

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Prior_echoes_@reddit

I can't see anything obvious to suggest it is actually OP. I just think it's one of those things no one sane would admit to doing themselves so everyone is assuming that's what OP is doing

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InfectedFrenulum@reddit

I think it's the fact that OP comes across as a bit too personally interested in what proof needs to be provided/will work ring the Courts, considering that they are asking for a friend.

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Questpineapple-1111@reddit

Because he wants to gather the facts to inform the friend. Not rocket science

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CandidLiterature@reddit

I particularly think that if this “friend” wanted any chance of getting away with this, they needed to tell literally no one about it. Telling OP would be even more moronic than the original plan!

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Dimac99@reddit

The world is full of people who are convinced they're smarter than they really are and they can't help themselves from bragging about all their bright ideas.

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jimmayy5@reddit

Idk about that, I have a couple work mates that we all just talk about the things we shouldn’t do, like calling in sick for a few days just for a break or somthing. Granted it’s a dead end job and not even close to being a competitive

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parkscon@reddit (OP)

I was 100% fully expecting this response. I knew I would get the old "yeah sure, you're friend". As I was typing the post even I started to doubt myself.

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SebastianHaff17@reddit

People are idiots. Like you're not already anonymous.

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accountfornormality@reddit

peter from leeds and we all know it.

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Prior_echoes_@reddit

Hey I know Peter from Leeds and he definitely came into work this week

Must be next week he's pulling this 😆

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FighterJock412@reddit

There's no evidence at all that it's OP, everyone just thinks they're smart and pulling some sort of "gotcha!" and saying it's OP.

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Kitchner@reddit

Because why would you give a shit what Dave at work is doing in this scenario?

Either you don't like the guy and you're planning to grass him up, or you like him enough to keep your mouth shut. You can't make this situation happen to get two weeks yourself, so why both going online, writing out a whole thing, and then respond to people in the comments for clarification?

Sure maybe the OP is just bored/curious, but I've never thought about it before just now and even just reading the OP I can thing of half a dozen ways he may get caught, and another half a dozen reasons why his employer may not check up on him so the answer is obviously "maybe" .

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CandidLiterature@reddit

Beyond how stupid you’d need to be to try this, you’d be even more stupid to then tell someone you work with about it…

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Kitchner@reddit

People forget how daft the average member of the public is and then when they interact with people online forget a lot of those people will be eeven more daft.

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King_Kongs_fingers@reddit

Intuition, not many people would go to thiese lengths because they were worried about a colleague losing their job, however, many people would go to this effort for 2 weeks paid leave.

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Happiest_Mango24@reddit

Somebody asked how the friend was going to get paid (standard rate or full salary) and the poster answered. How do they know this?

🥭

Someone else also told them that you get a claim/expense form that employers have been known to ask for and the poster responded with "There's a couple of others who did it recently but I don't know if they had to show that expense form. I don't see them much so it might be a bit suspicious if I message them out of the blue and ask."

1) Why is the poster trying to find out if their friend can get away with it?

2) Why would the poster be the one to message the others when they're not the one with Jury Service?

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carson63000@reddit

I don't know if people really think that the OP is asking about their own situation, but "asking for a friend" is a pretty well established idiom - see "Asking For a Friend – Origin & Meaning". imho it is often referred to as way to mock a question fairly gently.

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vorbika@reddit

I think because: - It is not super common to go as far as write a reddit post about this, when it is just about a work friend - asking for a friend has been historically very often just masking the original person, who is self-conscious

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glasgowgeg@reddit

How is your “friend” planning to explain it when he gets called up again in a few months?

It was 5 years between me not getting selected and being summoned again, so it may not be a few months.

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Kaioxygen@reddit

He could get called up again in a few months even if it hadn't been cancelled.

There's no limit on the number of times someone can be called.

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TheDroolingFool@reddit

There's no limit but you do get an automatic right to be excluded if you've served within the last two years. Employer might insist you do that if they've already allowed time off once.

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Kaioxygen@reddit

But what are the chances of being called up in the next 2 years? Pretty slim.

Even if he were he could say he had to work and be let off.

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anotherMrLizard@reddit

It's a question of whether OP is more likely to be called up again soon after it's been cancelled. Who knows, but it's clearly not worth the risk just for a couple of weeks off.

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BeatificBanana@reddit

Can employers legally insist you cancel your jury service?

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zingerchickenwings@reddit

Nope they cannot

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parkscon@reddit (OP)

He said he's done it 4 times already before and the person who called to cancel it said he would be able to defer it if he gets called up again, because he's done it enough already.

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OG-87@reddit

The thing is though for this you usually have to go to the office thing and get a sheet signed to say you were there and used to get pay back. That’s what happened the last time I actually went. So unless the company is trusting and not want that detail then he will just be getting unpaid leave.

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zan1101@reddit

Explaining to a new employer you got fired for wage theft will not go down well.

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queen-bathsheba@reddit

Yes he'll be found out

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echo24101@reddit

You won't even enjoy the two weeks off because you'll be too busy worrying about eventually getting caught.

Peace of mind is one of the most valuable things on earth.

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SignificantEarth814@reddit

What happens at CenterParks, stays at CenterParks

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shinealittlelove@reddit

There is no letter or confirmation at the end that you've attended.

However. On the first day you get a claims/expenses form which employers have been known to ask for a copy of. If his employer calls the jury office afterwards they will also be entitled to tell them that he didn't serve.

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explorer477@reddit

Yes there is. Its also signed and date stamped

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justawasteofass@reddit

There is no letter or confirmation at the end that you've attended.

Absolutely untrue. Why would you share this factually wrong information? At the end of your last day you can request a Certificate of Attendance. It's very quick. My employer wanted it for myself, and then again a few months ago when one of the people whom I managed also was called in.

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shinealittlelove@reddit

I meant there's nothing automatically given.

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FidelityBob@reddit

My company insisted on a certificate of attendance from the court. It was a while ago though. I still have it.

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parkscon@reddit (OP)

There's a couple of others who did it recently but I don't know if they had to show that expense form. I don't see them much so it might be a bit suspicious if I message them out of the blue and ask.

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hoocoo@reddit

Would surely be up to “your friend” to work out the logistics behind his lie. You don’t want “your friend’s” fraud to look badly on you, of course.

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explorer477@reddit

I actually was on jury duty. Was only off work for 3 or 4 days but at the end of the trial you get a date stamped letter confirming the date when your jury duty ended. My time off work was fully paid for my company but I did have to submit that stamped letter to my hr.

I'm in Scotland though so the rules might be different

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mij8907@reddit

Yes is the short answer

His HR department is likely to want to see paper work from the court to back up his claim for wages

When they realise he has been dishonest and committed fraud it won’t end well for him

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bluekipper92@reddit

If it’s local authority employment with a trusting line manager, can see how this easily goes unnoticed, obviously doesn’t make it ok but doubt I’d chase my team if they’d proved being picked for jury duty and then told me they were on a two week case whilst there

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no_carol_in-hr@reddit

Tell Jim Halpert that we know Pam needs him but it’s still a dick move

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Cassper8877@reddit

Personally I'd take a week off then go in and say it was postponed for some reason and he doesn't think he'll need to go back in or I'll just take the time off and not say anything. Then again I ain't wired like everyone else and I have absolutely no care

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Lonely-Picture4728@reddit

I did this and they never found out. Too many scaredy cats on here

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Feisty-Vegetable-302@reddit

People always get caught by chance .

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Stuvas@reddit

Dunno how I feel about this one. At spoons there was two of us as night managers, the other guy was god's gift to the pub manager. During COVID I got called up for jury duty and had a whole bunch of paper work, the company said they'd pay me fully for the 2 weeks on jury duty, although I wasn't selected so after 2 days they thanked me for doing my duty and told me to go back to my life.

God's gift then later claimed he had been selected for jury duty, had none of the paperwork, was loosely repeating what I had said when I got my summons but with mistakes in what he was saying.

He then disappeared for two weeks and head office emailed the pub asking for his paperwork to which he replied that he has sorted it with the pub manager and knows that we don't get paid for it, which is all entirely bollocks.

He got away with it, because he was god's gift.

So in conclusion, yes he can get away with it, provided his boss loves him enough to let him do whatever the fuck he wants, whenever the fuck he wants to do it.

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stubwah@reddit

I did something similar...attended the first day...they asked if anyone wanted to be excused...I said I had child care commitments...they let me go...just had the week off and gave them the verdict when I returned to the office.

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Humble_Molasses9711@reddit

Companies can claim wages from the court services for the time that an employee was on jury duty. If they do that when your mate was not actually there then he will be facing consequences.

[-]

AltruisticBug5769@reddit

When it comes to the end of jury service, your employer may pay him and then claim it back from the court services - he will be found out.

The alternative to that is your employer will not pay him and he has to claim it back from court services, which again he cannot do.

If he's willing to risk 2 weeks pay and potentially his job, then let him suffer the fall for the sake of 2 weeks

[-]

Welsh__dresser@reddit

Is his employer paying him for the absence? If they are, they are able to claim a contribution from the court for his period of service. He’ll come unstuck pretty quickly in that case.

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Accomplished-Kale-77@reddit

When I did jury service a few years ago it finished on the Tuesday of the third week and I told work it didn’t end until the Friday, and they never found out. But tbh I was still living with my mum and hated the job anyway, there’s no way I’d risk it now I’ve got a mortgage and a child, even less so if I had 4

[-]

Wooden-Bar-6499@reddit

HR here 👋👋 they’re unlikely to look further into it unless there was a reason to believe there has been dishonesty, or something comes up that questions it. I think this is very very likely to happen, in all honesty. He would likely face investigation, disciplinary action and sanction right up to gross misconduct and dismissal. Not worth it for 2 weeks off work in my opinion.

[-]

contented0@reddit

I'm sure claiming this would be fraudulent.

[-]

Professional-Run8724@reddit

Well that would be stupid because 1) he won't get paid 2) he can be called again at any point 3) if they find out.. he's up s*it creek 4) I'd follow the previous advice someone said. Call in on the day and say oh I bloody turned up and wasn't needed. See you tomorrow 😂 and you get a longer weekend.

[-]

MunkeyFish@reddit

I tried to pull the same stunt, he'll get found out.

Money needs to come from somewhere to pay him, so your employer and the courts will communicate because one will need to claim from the other and then the jig is up.

[-]

Deep-Carrot1943@reddit

He's a fool, he's certain to be found out and would almost certainly face dismissal

[-]

UrbanAlly@reddit

If you make a big fuss about it to him and he is found out , you are the suspect for dobbing him in.

[-]

cg1308@reddit

True story. My friend did exactly the same thing over a decade ago. She had two weeks off and went and stayed with her parents. Never got caught.

Now, the kicker, she’s a doctor. Not only would she have lost her job if they found out, she would’ve almost certainly been struck off.

Stupidest thing I ever saw.

[-]

DrButz@reddit

There are tonnes of nerds in this thread. I did what OP's friend did, never got found out, had a lovely 2 week break. If you've already been given the speacial leave for Jury Duty and Jury Duty gets cancelled enjoy it.

[-]

SKELEBOND@reddit

He probably could've got away with it, but seems he told the wrong person since you're blabbing about it on the Internet. You should've just explained your concerns to him in private rather than posting on reddit. Very lame.

[-]

dragonwagging@reddit

His problem is he told you and you immediately blabbed on Reddit. He needs to shut up and find better friends

[-]

ilikeavocadotoast@reddit

The exact same thing happened to me in late 2020, 3 days into jury service myself and many others were dismissed from jury service due to lockdown restrictions. I didn't tell my workplace and I had an extra week off...but I could get away with it as, I was 23, it was only a part time job that I worked over the weekends and I had no kids so it wasn't that deep

[-]

AdventurousTeach994@reddit

Your friend deserves to get discovered and fired. Everyone else having to cover for him while they're on a jolly?

They can feck right off!

[-]

Forward-Net-8335@reddit

I think they call this response the crab in a bucket mentality.

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jaytee158@reddit

I don't think that's what it is

[-]

Forward-Net-8335@reddit

Or escaping captivity...

[-]

Undrcovrcloakndaggr@reddit

Just to add, if his employer gives him any money as a result of him performing jury service, this isn't 'just' a bit bit of 'cheeky extra time off'... he'll be committing fraud.

[-]

Mighty_joosh@reddit

The one time I did jury duty we got a letter afterwards confirming the days we were there - which were to provide our employers.

Ours had ran over the expected time but I'd assumed this was standard practice.

Tell your mate to go to work or figure out how to support 4 kids on universal credit 🙂

[-]

Deformedpye@reddit

If he gets found out and has technically committed fraud. I'm sure they would not be too happy about it.

[-]

Kronenburg_1664@reddit

Might end up in court after all lol

[-]

pineapplelady1@reddit

.

[-]

Monkeyboogaloo@reddit

Jury service is rarely actually two weeks. Each week they bring in a new batch.

You may or may not get selected for a case. I did 5 days, first three were sitting around.

My wife day 4 days.

I was originally selected for a case that was predicted to be six weeks but I have a health issue that meant I was excused.

[-]

suityman@reddit

I work in a court and I can easily say his work will find out, I have dealt with jurors who skipped work after their service is done or cancelled and their employers do chase this up with the courts.

[-]

SteSteB@reddit

I guess this will be dependant on how the company pays jury service.

Do they pay full salary while on jury service. Or do they the standard jury service rates.

My friend did jury service. His company claimed the rates back and topped his wage up to full essentially.

I guess it wholly depends on how and if they want to be paid. If work don't pay and your friend needs to claim the fees from the court they won't be able to. And of your company want reimbursing the fees he won't be able to.

Sounds like a bit of a poorly thought out idea.

[-]

parkscon@reddit (OP)

The company will pay him his full pay for the time he's on jury service.

[-]

joeykins82@reddit

It is much more likely that the company will "top up the allowance" rather than just running full pay: employers aren't in the habit of passing over money from the government when it's available. This in turn means the employee in question needs to claim the court allowance from HMCTS, submit that info to their employer, and then have the difference paid by the employer.

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Foreign_End_3065@reddit

Really? It’s not usual…

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CandidLiterature@reddit

I mean it is pretty usual if you’ve got a good job. I’ve done jury duty twice and had my pay fully topped up on both occasions.

When I used to manage a shop, they wouldn’t pay anything. One of my staff was able to get out of it due to a financial hardship claim.

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Foreign_End_3065@reddit

Sorry, I meant it’s not usual to just get paid what you’re normally paid via payroll without some additional admin. Usually you get paid by the court, then submit that paperwork to your company, who then top-up your pay via payroll so you end up with the same amount in total from them + court. But it’s not usual for companies to just run payroll and treat your jury absence as if it didn’t happen at all, iyswim.

[-]

Freerollingforlife@reddit

Then he gets sacked for fraud not just for being awol….he get a lot longer than 2 weeks off - good luck finding a new job with that on your record.

[-]

WatchOne2032@reddit

What record?

[-]

LawabidingKhajiit@reddit

If you list your previous employer on your history:
"Why did you leave your previous job?" [I wanted a change. Urgently.]
"Would your previous employer provide a reference?" [No]

If you don't list them: "So tell us about this [x] year gap. What have you been doing for the last [x] years?" [Jury service. Long trial.]

[-]

jesusismyupline@reddit

getting caught defrauding a company of two weeks wages would most likely result in criminal charges

[-]

Awordofinterest@reddit

You know, the same as the magical school record that follows you around for life.

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WatchOne2032@reddit

Oh yeah,I forgot. isn't that the one you carry around in your record of achievement folder your whole life and show to everyone everywhere you go

[-]

On_The_Blindside@reddit

I mean, I know it's arguably fraud by misrepresentation but I seriously doubt the police will be interested in that.

[-]

pumaofshadow@reddit

Then he needs to tell them now. If they find out later - especially if he gets called for service again - it'll be trouble

[-]

parkscon@reddit (OP)

That's what I'm worried about. Another guy at work got sacked for claiming overtime he never did. So I know they don't take fraud lightly.

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pumaofshadow@reddit

yup, he'll be boned.

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jesusismyupline@reddit

what's a little fraud between friends

[-]

mousepallace@reddit

Then that’s fraud.

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shinealittlelove@reddit

Just a small nitpick, but companies don't get to reclaim any money from the jury office for wages.

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SteSteB@reddit

Ahhh OK. Never had jury service. As I mentioned my friend did it. Had to provide proof then was paid to make up to full I think will have been the way it was done

[-]

Foreign_End_3065@reddit

The companies don’t ‘reclaim’ money i.e. they can’t apply for the money for an employee, but rather the person doing jury service gets paid by the court directly, and then usually the company asks their employee to show them the form to confirm they got paid £XX and they adjust payroll by that amount.

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enigmo666@reddit

This was me exactly. I did manage to argue the amount you get just for turning up was the pay they should take into account, and ignore the transport and food allowance, though.

[-]

enigmo666@reddit

They don't claim it back, but they can be penny-pinching. One place I worked wanted paperwork to show what I had been 'paid' and then topped that up to my usual wage, which was nice I guess, but would have absolutely meant if I'd pulled a fast one and just sat at home for two weeks I would have been rumbled.

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SystemLordMoot@reddit

I think he'd be committing fraud by doing that.

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BullFr0GG@reddit

He won't get paid. So...

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Old-Divide326@reddit

I would say that is his problem… if he is that stupid to risk his job…. My JS got cancelled 4 days in and I went back to work. I mean I didn’t have to proof anything other than my JS letter

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SusieC0161@reddit

I think that, once you’ve done jury service, you have 10 years before you have to do it again. If he gets called again in the next 10 years, and is still with the same employer, he’ll have some explaining to do. He might have to cover it with annual leave to avoid being found out. He needs to confess.

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TobyADev@reddit

I suspect they can call him up again and ask him to come back in a few weeks so I’d say it’s not worth it

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plasticface2@reddit

Ha ..he should take a leaf out of my book. I've been to prison and unemployed

Can't stitch up me with jury service and "time off".

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Eastern-Move549@reddit

If you learn only one thing in life learn this.

You cannot protect someone from their own stupidity.

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Ok-Noise2538@reddit

Yes, they check. I did it a decade ago and the defendant pleaded guilty last minute so it was cancelled. I was working weekends at the time so was still going in on Saturdays and I told my manager that it had been cancelled and he said he already knew because the court called him to let him know. I can’t imagine anything has changed since then.

TL:DR- He’ll definitely get caught and it’s not worth it

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easyway74@reddit

Where I work there is paperwork between the HR Sept and the Jury service when they claim back the wages he will be paid. There is very good chance he would be found out yes.

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Robotniked@reddit

I wouldn’t have any way to know as a manager, however a two week trial is a long time and he would be expected to have at least some stories to tell about the whole thing which might trip him up. The bigger issue is what if he gets recalled in the next month? Instant firing if found out, not worth it.

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cbaotl@reddit

When my friend had to do jury service they had to get a signed letter saying they had attended each day in order for our employer to pay them. Granted, we worked for an agency at the time so rules are always tighter, but still I wouldn’t risk it

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old_school_gamer_dad@reddit

Won’t his work want to claim his wages back for the days lost from government so wouldn’t this be fraud potentially would be biggest argument not to do it

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Artistic_Data9398@reddit

Yes. The company claims that time back of the government. Let him fuck up

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Suitable-Squash-5413@reddit

Bad move. Unlikely to be prosecuted, but they are committing fraud by false representation. So def firing offence.

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gtamaddog@reddit

I found myself in a similar position to the friend a couple of weeks ago - my Jury Service was supposed to start on the 11th, but got cancelled.

I've had one days annual leave since the end of March, and I'm flagging/was looking forward to getting out of the office, but I went in to work anyway.

I've done Jury Service before and wasn't provided with any paperwork at the end, but I thought better of not turning up to work just in case. I made it amusing for myself by not telling anyone it had been cancelled, and then I sat in the office as everyone turned up on Monday morning to see their reactions.

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CrankyArtichoke@reddit

Yes he will get found out because he is an idiot and he’s blabbing to people at work. He will make one wrong move and be fired for fraud because that’s what he’s doing. If he is getting paid while on this little con he is committing fraud and he will not only loose his job but have to pay back the wages most likely.

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Ok-Secret5233@reddit

If you make a big deal out of this, e.g. by repeatedly warning him that he might get found out, and then he gets found out, he's going to believe you told on him.

Warn him once because he's a friend and then let him make his own decisions.

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TH1CCARUS@reddit

Not quite wanting to read all 289 comments but when I served I had to supply documentation to satisfy loss-of-earnings.

Ya fella is fucked if he dodges. Not worth a job loss imo.

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ghodsgift@reddit

"My work friend" 😂😂😂 Good one.

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buy_me_a_pint@reddit

Tell work.

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bonkerz1888@reddit

Tell him if he really feels the need to take time off to give himself a long weekend (Monday off) and spin a wee yarn about turning up to find out he wasn't needed.

Chancing his hand at two weeks off is doomed to failure.

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AndreT000@reddit

He'll definitely get found out. The employer reclaims the wages for jury service from the government. When they try to reclaim they will find out he wasn't on jury service - gross misconduct.

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Creative_Situation47@reddit

Asking for a friend are we :-) ?????

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Icy-Background-2825@reddit

Ha

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hilary_m@reddit

Yes He will get called again probably soon. Jury call up is not repeated often so two call ups close together is suspicious

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Previous-Ad7618@reddit

Fuck around and Find out. As they say.

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TheAlbertBrennerman@reddit

He won't get any money for 2 weeks then as the courts won't supplement his wage. Unless the company does but I doubt that.

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cam255eron@reddit

If all they ask for is a letter and you showed the letter then I’d fucking do it in a heartbeat.

We spend how many hours of our lives working? For what? For other people then we fucking die. Take the 2 weeks and don’t look back.

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Lou-de-Lou-de-Lou@reddit

I’m surprised so many people think he’ll get caught, as if an employer can call a government department and ask if you were there!

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cam255eron@reddit

Like he works with Dwight Schrute!

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quite_acceptable_man@reddit

He's an idiot. Tell him you're not going to tell work, but also that you're not going to lie for him if they ask.

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vientianna@reddit

When I did mine you got your letter stamped every day with start and stop times so people could prove to their employers they were there. Mine didn’t care beyond seeing the initial letter but there were plenty of people whose companies wanted the letter signed off every day as proof.

So if your job is like that I’d be concerned

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schoolme_straying@reddit

It's easily checked. The summons would have been scanned, or copied by the boss/HR (cos that's policy) to be marked out on Jury Service.

HR bod calls the number on the letter and says Mr X is my employee - please can you advise his days of active service.

Released from service 15 Nov

Please can you pop that in an email to us

I used to work in a position of authority in a school and all authority tends to work this way.

They know people are taking the piss, but it's a bit OCD to ding them for every transgression. Instead they let time pass and see who's who and then they go after the easiest offenders.

Take uniform - ties done up, shirt tails tucked in. They always say that but then they'll pick a week and EVERYONE gets a sanction.

[-]

SpaTowner@reddit

I see you are active in NI subs, I don’t know if that’s where your working experience was, but interestingly, from what I saw when I was trying to pin this down, the only official court pages that made reference to employers being able to call in to check, were for Northern Ireland.

Absence of proof isn’t proof of absence of such a process in other parts of the country of course, but no bugger is committing to writing any method of checking other than asking the employee to bring back a certificate of attendance.

[-]

AdThat328@reddit

If he's going to be getting paid from his job too it's likely they'll want proof of attendance so...yeah he's gonna be found out and probably sacked for just taking two weeks off randomly.

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RudePragmatist@reddit

I believe that there are measures in place for the employer to confirm if he is actually sitting on jury service or not. Also if he is selected for a nasty one then that two weeks will become 4-8 months plus some PTSD thrown in and very little compensation.

He’d be better of going back to work.

[-]

barneyrubble43@reddit

its very possible that he will be rescheduled rather than cancelled completely.

In that event - what's his plan? To take 2 weeks holiday to cover it? What happens if he gets a 5 week case when he is rescheduled?

[-]

willwilson82@reddit

I'm on jury service currently. Your employer can request your timetable when you have completed it so very easy for him to get found out.

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roadsodaa@reddit

Are they actually going to find out?

Given that he can’t talk about the ongoing, and the case details aren’t public, will they even know?

I might be wrong. I know that you’re not supposed to talk about the case if you’re on the jury, so I’m also presuming that the case isn’t public with the details?

[-]

Dazz316@reddit

Not relevant, the employers aren't going to be asking about the case. The employers would only liase with the courts on what days they required the employee.

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SpaTowner@reddit

My employer lowers have never had to liaise with the court when I’ve been called for jury service, so I’m not sure that’s a thing.

If your employers don’t pay you your normal salary while you’re doing jury duty, they have to fill in a certificate of loss form that you then take to the clerk, which confirms your employment details.

I really think that’s the limit of their contact.

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Dazz316@reddit

Some employers do their due diligence, some don't.

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SpaTowner@reddit

I’m just interested to know how common it is for employers to do that. I see a lot of people stating in this thread that employers ‘will be in touch with the courts’, but no-one is citing anything in support of that and I couldn’t find anything online to that effect.

The closest I get is this, from Wandsworth Council website, which seems to be information for employers about filling in the ‘Certificate of Loss of Earnings’ form stating that they wont be paying the employee, but it also stated that if they want to know how many days the employee actually served, they have to ask the employee to obtain a certificate of attendance from the court when they are discharged.

https://s4s.wandsworth.gov.uk/Pages/Download/3a0d52b5-1d19-4ea5-bdfa-fe209eaa5158/PageSectionDocuments

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Dazz316@reddit

Maybe someone has done a survey with employers but I don't imagine it's top off the list with pay and stuff.

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SpaTowner@reddit

I’m just saying that the employer’s due diligence and checks consists of getting the employees lower to bring them evidence of attendance at the court.

I can’t find any mechanism for employers to get information from the courts directly.

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Dazz316@reddit

You said you were interested to know how common it was and was having a hard time finding that out. I was just saying it's probably not a common thing people are asking and that when looking at employers actions there's much higher and more common questions like pay related questions.

A simple email is usually a good mechanism. There may not be a specific form.

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roadsodaa@reddit

Wouldn’t that be stated on the letter?

These are general questions. I don’t have a clue how it works, just making assumptions.

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Dazz316@reddit

Various bits of info can be exchanged. None of it will be the case

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Ginger_Tea@reddit

I would assume they only knew the dates not "the trial of meat cleaver Mike." depending on the size of the court house and if anywhere has more than one, there could be a few trials going on the same day.

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Dazz316@reddit

The courts will have all the information.

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Ginger_Tea@reddit

But outside of confirmation that the jury service is real, would your boss/hr care about who is in the docks and why?

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Dazz316@reddit

No, they wouldn't ask. That was my point.

They'll just confirm the days of service the employee was required.

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crapmetal@reddit

It's all public record when the case is over though.

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Fit_Balance8329@reddit

If he’s been selected to attend jury service, he hasn’t been assigned to a case yet. That’s how it works. You go in on the first day and wait to be assigned a case.

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Ginger_Tea@reddit

Even the members of the jury?

That sounds a bit bad.

I get all the details of the case will be reported on if needed, but the main point is "I could lie and say I was at this other trial in the next room." But wouldn't expect to see my name in public records as a member of the jury.

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roadsodaa@reddit

Suppose it depends on how arsey they want to be. If one of my team shown proof of them having to attend, I wouldn’t be arsed looking for it afterwards.

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SpaTowner@reddit

You can talk about the trial after the conclusion of the case, just not about the jury deliberations. https://www.gov.uk/jury-service/discussing-the-trial#:~:text=Do%20not%20discuss%20the%20trial,room%2C%20even%20with%20family%20members. Evidence is public.

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Valuable-Wallaby-167@reddit

They'll find out when he gets called for jury duty again.

They'll find out if they ask to see his expenses claim form.

They'll find out because he clearly isn't any good at not telling people.

They don't need to know anything about the case to find out

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Nicebutdimbo@reddit

He’s an idiot, so he won’t do his research. If you care that much, just tell him your employer will find out when they claim back jury duty allowance from HMRC and HMRC deny it.

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SpaTowner@reddit

The employer doesn’t claim back jury duty allowance from HMRC, do they? Why would HMRC be involved?

There can be 3 situations regarding pay for jury service as far as the employer is concerned - pay full salary, no one claims anything from the court. Paying the full salary is simply a gesture of good will, the employer is under no obligation. - pay the difference between the court allowance and employees usually salary. The employer fills in a Certificate of Loss of Earnings which the employee gives to the court. The court pays the employee the allowance. Again, this is a goodwill gesture not an obligation. - pay nothing. Employer still fills in the certificate and the employee gets paid the allowance directly from the court service.

I’m not seeing where any of those generate an obligation for the HMRC to refund anything to the employer.

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Nicebutdimbo@reddit

And that is exactly why I said “he won’t do his research”

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No_Can_6511@reddit

In the UK you have to be available for 6 weeks if called up for jury duty. He could still get called for another case. Your friend is an idiot, doing that with a family to support is far too risky

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nationalduolian@reddit

Stupid thing to do.

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FailTuringTest@reddit

All it would take to be discovered would be for anyone at work to innocently ask, 'you did jury service? cool, what was it like?' It will very quickly become obvious to everyone that Friend did not in fact do jury service.

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mtrillustration@reddit

“Really boring, glad it’s done”

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Lou-de-Lou-de-Lou@reddit

Not at all “I sat in a waiting room for two weeks, never got called to a case”.

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mtrillustration@reddit

“Your friend” hahaha

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SingerFirm1090@reddit

You are correct.

In theory, he could get called for jury service again in a few months, how will he explain that to your employer?

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Lou-de-Lou-de-Lou@reddit

…that he got called again! You can get called many times!

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AddictedToRugs@reddit

He was indiscrete enough to tell you about it, so he's indiscrete enough to let it slip to others too. Yes, he is likely to get found out because he can't keep his mouth shut..

[-]

JLB_cleanshirt@reddit

I bet he's the sort of person that parks in disabled bays, drops litter and doesn't return his trolley at the supermarket

[-]

Eoin_McLove@reddit

'My work friend'

[-]

JLB_cleanshirt@reddit

"Asking for a friend"

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Yorkshirerows@reddit

A few months later: 'My ex work friend'

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Spiritual_Smell4744@reddit

It'll be the work that's ex though.

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fiddly_foodle_bird@reddit

2 weeks and 1 day later: "Dear askuk, how do unemployment benefits work?"

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jesusismyupline@reddit

they most likely wont be allowed to collect if theyre fired for fraud

[-]

BeatificBanana@reddit

I think they were more getting at OP pretending the story is about a friend when it's really about themselves

[-]

MikeSizemore@reddit

As long as he watches 2 weeks of Columbo his conscience is clear.

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BroodLord1962@reddit

Does he know that work do not have to pay him when off for jury service, he claims it back via loss of earnings forms that his work have to fill out. Even if he's happy to have two weeks off not paid, he's still likely to get caught and more than likely loose his job

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Leo-Leo-Leo-@reddit

I was summoned for jury service. I had a work load that I had to plan out, I only ended up doing 2 days but I was 100% honest with work about how many days I did and how long.

It's not worth the lie and possibly being fired and if he goes out and a colleague or even boss sees him how would he explain it?

If he does get found out and fired he only has himself to blame.

[-]

LagerBitterCider197@reddit

You sure it's your friend?

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Juicy_In_The_Sky@reddit

I believe this was covered in an episode of The Office

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alt_for_stuff@reddit

If he's expecting to be paid then he will definitely get found out because your company will want to see how much the jury service paid him and then top it up. If he's not expecting to be paid then he's just taking two weeks unpaid leave, is this not possible to get without having to lie?

Also just generally, faking jury service is quite a lie to pull off. It's not like he's pulling a sick day, there will be questions. People will want to know details about the trial, people who haven't done jury duty will want to know what it's like, people who have will want to share details of jury duty life.

[-]

InternationalTower53@reddit

This would be a real bad breach of trust. Jury service is a very important civil duty and to say that you've done it when you haven't, and been paid by either the court or your employer is fraudulent and despicable behaviour.

[-]

SnackGrabber@reddit

Two reasons your friend should not do this!
It is gross misconduct at work, the employer is entitled to see your friends certificate for proof of time on Jury Duty.
Jury Duty is a serious and important public service to the community, it should not be part of a blag.

[-]

MrJapooki@reddit

2 weeks is the minimum amount of jury service to serve If you get certain cases they go on for longer so if whoever it is makes an alibi about say a murder or an kidnapping they will probably last longer And if the cases you get are short you do most likely another one If you don’t do full cases for the 2 weeks and are not needed in the court/jury summons room everyday , you actually are usher to go to work/do whatever you usually do , I’m sure most people just have a day off though Problem with this scenario is your not gonna be paid for those 2 weeks and you most likely will be summoned early next year Which is gonna look suspicious the only way around this would ( if summoned again) would be to change court location Also if anyone asks about the case and you start speaking about it they are gonna know you never went to jury service

[-]

gaco79@reddit

If he's got kids and wants unpaid time off, just ask for parental leave. https://www.gov.uk/parental-leave

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Enigma_Green@reddit

Surely it cancelled that day but could be called up another day? My mate had the whole time off coz they weren't needed that day but could have been needed another.

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Cultural_Flounder_44@reddit

Yes

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MrMonkeyman79@reddit

As I understand it his employer will be reimbursed for his wages while he's doing jury service. While I'm not versed in the mechanics of this, they'll find out the second they either don't get details on.how to claim costs or the money isn't forthcoming.

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bellydisguised@reddit

Give him this: Idiot of the Year Award

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formation@reddit

If I was thinking about doing this, I wouldn't tell anyone especially YOU. I can tell by you posting this, you're the type of person who would tell your boss the truth even though it has little bearing or consequence for you.

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Hot_and_Foamy@reddit

If you want to lie and risk your job, fine, but expecting other people to lie and risk theirs for you is scummy behaviour.

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formation@reddit

Don't tell anyone is what i was saying. Now the cats out of the bag they should go to work.

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Hot_and_Foamy@reddit

That’s not what you said - you said you definitely wouldn’t tell OP because of the type of person they are and that they should lie because it has no bearing or consequence.

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parkscon@reddit (OP)

Not a chance I'm grassing him up. I've worked with him for nearly 10 years now.

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Coenberht@reddit

And what if he's asked to do jury service next year? Can't not go. Work is going to smell a rat, then sack him.

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BeatificBanana@reddit

He might get asked to do jury service next year regardless. There's no time that has to expire before they ask you again. It's random. So it won't automatically indicate he didn't serve last year

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anotherMrLizard@reddit

You can excuse yourself from jury duty if you've done it in the last 2 years.

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throwaway_t6788@reddit

plus he can defer, make excuses to jury

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FTO2@reddit

On the jury not he provides he needs to present that document to payroll and they do inquire cause government pays them for their fee ... When they claim

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PatFenis1992@reddit

You sound envious tbh.

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Nuclear_Geek@reddit

I'd say not very likely. I did jury service a few years back, but the trial was abandoned after the first couple of days. It was... let's say "unclear" whether I was still on standby for potentially sitting on another case or not, so I just had the rest of the 2 weeks off.

Work should have planned for the absence, so I don't see any harm in taking the time off.

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Ationsoles@reddit

Even if it was unlikely I would be found out, I couldn't deal with the stress for 2 weeks trying to relax knowing that any moment I get a call from the manager.

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GraceEllis19@reddit

If found out then it’ll very likely be considered gross misconduct and dismissal will be almost certain - it would be claiming salary where there wasn’t an entitlement and therefore misrepresentation/dishonesty/fraud. A gross misconduct dismissal is normally without notice pay plus it would feature on a reference so the friend would likely find it hard to find a new job and wouldn’t even have their notice pay to fall back on while they looked. They might finally get some min wage agency work if the agency feels like giving them a chance but I think it’s fair to say whatever work came after the dismissal would be a big step down. Is it worth it for 2 weeks off when they have kids at home to consider??

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volvocowgirl77@reddit

Very silly. He will get called again and his work will then know. You can’t get called again for two years.

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throwaway_t6788@reddit

i diid jury service but got cancelled after 3 days. i didnt tell my work place and i was ok.

i think if jury does tell you to come back you can defer it once, lie to them.that your work place made accommodation for you first time but it might be hard to do it again.. etc to see if you can get away with it

imo the only way the work will find out is if they want jury service to pay you and then they will top up the rest, (jury will give you a form and you might have to show your workplace how much you got paid etc) in my case work place paid full amount..

with 4 kids its not strongly not recommended..

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MFtch93@reddit

Reddit is the wrong place to ask mate. Busybodies and little gimps here. Who’s gonna know?

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Ok-Advantage3180@reddit

He needs to just go to work. As it was cancelled, there’s a chance he’ll be called up again relatively soon and as you can’t get called up for at least two years if you’ve done jury service, he’s going to have a hard time explaining that one to his boss. If he really wants the time off, he could always take all/some of it as annual leave instead. Unless he can afford to lose his job, he needs to work that time

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RadiantCrow8070@reddit

If he was single it would be worth the risk

Not with kids tho

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FriendlyGhost15@reddit

They record the attendance of jurors each day so in theory if your work decided to check attendance for whatever reason then they would quite easily find out that your friend wasn't there.

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smokeyphil@reddit

True but its unlikely they will hand out that information to outside parties much in the same way if your work rang up your GP and asked if you attended an appointment they "should" get told to f' off in the nicest possible terms.

Though at the same time there likely is some mechanism for working out if people are misusing jury summons to get paid leave. I think mostly you get a certificate of attendance and failing to produce that would be grounds assuming anyone bothered to check.

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parkscon@reddit (OP)

That's what I couldn't understand. He had the letter of his jury service date, but that could easily be faked by someone. Surely a company needs to confirm whether an employee has been or not?

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smokeyphil@reddit

Well as far as i can see there isnt really a like central way of checking there is the loss of earnings form thing but that only applies if the company doesn't cover your wages some do just because its the civic minded thing to do.

I guess in a sense this might fall into the "my nan died" kinda thing where i guess absent like anything outright disproving it no one can say he wasn't doing jury duty.

How much of a jobsworth is the HR person who is likely to be organising stuff?

Because there are stages to getting away with shit and if no one bothers to check your blatant lies in the first place its unlikely to come back people get away with all sorts of shit because someone didn't check.

I guess push comes to shove and the job demands proof he wont be able to furnish that and there are issues how likely are they to demand proof? Do you work at the kind of place you can say "i'm going to the doctors this afternoon" or "i have the flu" and its taken at face value or do they make you get the doctors note every time? (likely somewhere in the middle)

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parkscon@reddit (OP)

That's what I couldn't understand. He had the letter of his jury service date, but that could easily be faked by someone. Surely a company needs to confirm whether an employee has been or not?

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Crafty-Hearing5403@reddit

Take the time off, do it

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GoldControl8808@reddit

Just the type of integrity we need in jurors 😂

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Inevitable_Deer_9126@reddit

Why would he risk doing that? Maybe because he is desperate for time off. Maybe chat to him about if he hates his job or if he is feeling stressed. Offer to do something fun together on a weekend maybe with some other friends.

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_User-Name_Taken@reddit

Tell Jim it's a bad idea. Make sure Andy doesn't try covering for him by saying he dropped him off at the courthouse every day.

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_studio_sounds_@reddit

Just a thought. You say your mate's got kids. If he's set on taking this time off because he wants to spend more time with his kids, there's another way he can do it.

The government has an unpaid parental leave scheme which entitles him to up to 18 weeks of unpaid leave up until their 18th birthdays. He needs to give his employer 21 days notice, and take the time in blocks of a whole week, but it's difficult for his employer to refuse permission.

I only found out about the scheme this year and it's been amazing to be able to spend some more time at home with my son, even if it's only an extra couple of weeks.

https://www.gov.uk/parental-leave

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External-Most-4481@reddit

Your friend is an idiot and there is a high chance your workplace will find out

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parkscon@reddit (OP)

Are they likely to phone the jury service people and confirm he's been?

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On_The_Blindside@reddit

No. they're likely to see her hasn't completed the loss of earnings rom and see.

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Impossible_Slide3198@reddit

You will have to claim expenses back and will need a form from the courts to do this. Your financial team at work will want to see it to work out payment still due to him. Dishonesty will not look great too them.

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Lou-Lou-Lou@reddit

No. Data protection.

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ThrowRAMomVsGF@reddit

No, but they will probably need a letter about the payment that jury duty provides since they have to pay the difference to the employee. Is your colleague going to forge that somehow? And if he did that too, would he be OK getting paid less to continue the ruse?

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1king-of-diamonds1@reddit

They will almost certainly want to see the paperwork from the court and require “them” to hand over the money they receive from participating - for this very reason

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OverJohn@reddit

Obviously you cannot phone up a find out who has been doing jury service. However, the court will write a letter for the juror to confirm they have been doing jury service. Your company can ask for this and so he is playing a dangerous game as the company will be able to check by asking for this letter.

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behavedgoat@reddit

Just go to work op

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bright_sorbet1@reddit

"aSkInG fOr a fRiEnD"

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ShowmasterQMTHH@reddit

They usually give you a letter to give to your employer to prove you've been on service. Be a bit awkward if the ask him for it.

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PalicoHunter@reddit

I was called up for jury duty a couple of months back across a two week period. Essentially, it will be determined by your company policy on how they or your colleague recovers the monetary losses.

For example, I had to present the court with a loss of earnings form on day 1, which I then had to provide my employer when I was discharged from service. Of the 3 days I was called up for jury duty, my name was not called once so I didn’t actually complete a single day but I was still paid for my time in attendance at court which was then deducted from my monthly wage. Due to my company policy however, I did have to contact on the day if I was called up for service or not.

In short, this is not worth the risk for your colleague to have this time off, especially if children’s welfare is relying on this person as this is a very selfish act. If your colleague needs time off then this is something they need to discuss with their employer. Jury duty is not an all expenses paid holiday and unless your employer has very lax policies, they will find out.

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erinoco@reddit

Due to my company policy however, I did have to contact on the day if I was called up for service or not.

That can be the case for certain companies. Under my company's HR policy on jury duty, I would have to let them know even if I were released from service in the morning, so that work availability and compensation for salary could be adjusted accordingly. In practice, there was no point adjusting.

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Logical-Prize4041@reddit

I worked with a girl who worked on our reception. She added two weeks onto the end of her jury service and was found out. She got fired. It's not worth it

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InfectedFrenulum@reddit

Jury Service isn't cancelled, it's just postponed.

I wish your friend the best of luck in trying to come up with a plausible lie to his boss once a new trial comes up in a few months.

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Twerklepit@reddit

Tell work it’s been cancelled, if you’re really desperate for two weeks off ask if you can use holidays instead of being put back on the rota instead of risking your job and spending two weeks off worrying about posting on Reddit

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Vectis01983@reddit

Not everyone called up for Jury service actually gets used. It's a random system and they call up more people than they need. It's quite possible that he won't even be wanted. He will need to show that he actually served.

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Tough_Cheek5746@reddit

I was off work for jury duty several years ago. The potential jurors sar in a room for a couple of hours before being told the case had settled and we could leave. Fortunately, I went back to work. I then found out that my manager's daughter was also one of the potential jurors and had already told her that we were sent home.This was true. I didn't recognize her at the time, but I did think a girl looked familiar. I had seen pictures of her.

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hotchy1@reddit

If you was 20, no kids and it's not a career type job then go for it. They probably won't find out.

4 kids... I'd probably go to work. Possibly sneak 1 day, say when you all go there it got cancelled after so long due to the guy being "sick" and that's jury service over. That's what actually happened to me. A free day off woop.

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Inevitable_Stage_627@reddit

Employers often try and recoup paid wages via the jury service expenses payment. When he can’t produce the expenses or even the expenses form, they are going to rumble him as having not attended.

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a-little-bit-sweet@reddit

My company collects the $10 a day check we get for jury duty. They also pay us to go to jury duty. But other than that, I don’t think they would know.

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mrbullettuk@reddit

Cancelled or deferred?

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parkscon@reddit (OP)

He said cancelled and that he's done it 4 times already.

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Alex_Black89@reddit

OP is your "friend" you? 🤔

Kidding, but he'd be wise to just tell them. Weird thing to tell a colleague though.

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lilliweasel@reddit

My jury service was for 2 weeks, the first week I didn't get called and waited in the waiting room, the second week was working out the same so on the Tuesday afternoon that said to go home but they would call us if needed so we should be no more than 2 hours away, so I stayed home as work was just outside this, never got called so effectively had the last 3 days off

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scarlettswirlyginga@reddit

I’d say it’s a bad idea to hide it. If the company knows he was scheduled for jury duty, they might ask for proof if he’s suddenly off the roster. Best to just tell them the truth it’ll save him a lot of stress if anything comes up later.

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purply_otter@reddit

That would be fraud which is a criminal offence

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Nedonomicon@reddit

He will almost 100% get found out . There are forms the employer needs to have at the end of jury service, and also the simple fact that he has told people what he’s doing .

He will very likely get called again within the year and will have to explain himself then .

He’s a twat , but if you’ve warned him it’s not your problem . Just keep your mouth shut and go about your business now

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Quirky-Property-7537@reddit

You get paid about $15/day. I actually heard of an employer straight out of Charles Dickens, who not only wanted to see the check stub, but wanted the employee to sign over the check (since employee had paid jury leave!).

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jesusismyupline@reddit

A trial that takes two whole weeks would usually make the news.

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MaxLevelYutyrannus@reddit

I had a manager once, rang an airport, got a tannoy shout for an employee he didn't believe was flying home for an emergency.

Your bud's a fool. And arguably, a thief or fraud.

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OmegaRider@reddit

There was one post I remember reading (on ULPT I think) where the OP did this, got another letter for jury duty and had no idea what to do or explain it to their employer.

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mousepallace@reddit

It’s worrying that the judiciary want this moron sitting in judgement over other people’s lives.

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RevolutionaryPace167@reddit

He won't be paid

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ruffalohearts@reddit

if his work friend is snitching on the internet then probably

everyone needs a break sometimes

take it easy

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Beneficial-Salt-6773@reddit

That’s timecard fraud and would definitely be fired for it and could be prosecuted as it’s equivalent to stealing from the company.

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Such-Pack9054@reddit

The government pays you for jury service at least in my case.

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nehnehhaidou@reddit

Yes, if the company plans on claiming from the jury service for his earnings while on service, it will quickly become apparent when the claim gets rejected.

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make-me-lol-plz@reddit

Your 'friend' is an idiot, tell them to go to work and say jury got cancelled.

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more_beans_mrtaggart@reddit

It’s absolutely fine unless someone spills the beans across a social media site, like reddit..

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Forward-Net-8335@reddit

OP isn't invited to my bank robbery.

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Fit_Balance8329@reddit

This happened to me. I didn’t tell my workplace, and they didn’t find out.

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markgmoney@reddit

I manage a team of 7 people and if one of them did this they wouldn’t have a job if they got found out

And the reason they will get found out is due to anything loss of earnings related

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Dangerous-Regret-358@reddit

At no point has anyone considered the basics of accountability, honesty and integrity. Your work friend should declare the cancellation to their employer and return to work because they ought to, not because of the fear of getting caught out if they don't.

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carson63000@reddit

This is Reddit. Employers - all employers - are considered to be literally worse than Hitler here.

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Valuable-Wallaby-167@reddit

At no point has anyone considered the basics of accountability, honesty and integrity.

That's because they asked if he'll get found out, not if it's morally acceptable. People are answering the question asked.

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matthewkevin84@reddit

Obviously if his work came across this post they could put 2 & 2 together. I understand it’s unlikely with all the thousands/ millions? of posts on reditt you never know!

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ad1075@reddit

Bro just go to work, Jesus.

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Hot_Tamali1580@reddit

Completely cancelled? What happens if they decide to move it to a later date and they need him again?

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justawasteofass@reddit

100% and idiot

I'm a manager who had an employee on a jury duty. I also did jury duty myself.

The company will ask your friend to provide them with the Certificate of Attendance, this will be given to him on his last day on his request. The payroll will demand this. Your friend is literally planning to financially defraud his workplace, 10 days of work is at least £860 if he's on minimum wage.

Your friend is an irresponsible and dishonest idiot, you don't commit financial fraud of this significance when you have children

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kittycatnala@reddit

I don’t see how the company will find out tbh but it’s risky if he does get found out with 4 kids to keep. It’s his choice though.

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LoopandLoom@reddit

I have no idea how this works honestly, I figured they would have to notify your work that you won't be in so would surely do the same if its cancelled? But who knows, will be interested to hear the outcome x

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SpaTowner@reddit

They don’t know who you work for. They operate on the basis that you are a grown-up who will convey the information to you own employers.

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Scarboroughwarning@reddit

What a tit

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Nine_Eye_Ron@reddit

Yes, very likely to be found out and end up worse off from it.

Lies like this will never end well.

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MercatorLondon@reddit

the fact that he is on the rooster means that he may be called to do the service again soon.
So even if his employer is not asking for the letter from the court they will realise what is going on in a six months time when he will be asked to do the jury.

But it seems your friend is living with 3 days planning ahead.

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No-Wave-8393@reddit

Yeah he’s most likely getting sacked.

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Dont_mean2be_a_dick@reddit

This is quite clearly Fraud. (Section 2) he is failing to disclose to his employers that he has in fact been excused and stands to profit financially as a result. Money he isn’t entitled to. This is therefore criminal. It’s at minimum a. Gross miscount and could quite easily result in him being Given a Criminal record. He also can’t easily claim it was some kind of mistake. The firm won’t be sympathetic and may also need to send a message to other ‘piss takers’ According to some here, it’s quite likely he will actually be found out through some of the admin required. But in any case it’s really really not worth it from a risk benefit perspective. Tell him to give some thought to the others who’ll now have to take time out their week to be in the jury that’ll find him guilty.

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ghin6@reddit

It’s his life why do u care so much

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Ginger_Tea@reddit

Normally because there is no friend and it's them "asking for a friend" IE themselves.

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morebob12@reddit

What an idiot. Gross misconduct for sure.

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Illustrious-Tea2336@reddit

Eerily similar to that episode of the office where jim lies about jury service and takes a week off from work.

I think ive said too much.

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Comfortable-Cash6452@reddit

They will find out, if you know it’s been cancelled you can be sure others know. Advise your work friend people will know and may accidentally tell someone who tells someone else and before he knows it his manager is on the phone asking him why he’s not at work.

Someone I worked with had people inform his manager when he was finishing jury duty at lunchtime each day asking why he wasn’t coming to work.

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solve_et_coagula13@reddit

Should just tell work. No issues then.

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MiddleAgeCool@reddit

If the two weeks aren't from his annual leave and are an extra allowance the company offers then he needs to tell them his jury service is cancelled.

The employment tribunals in the UK around these types of time off have been done and the decisions are clear; you're not entitled to them as a personal allowance, they are a staffing shrinkage the company accounts for. If you fraudulently use them, including pretending to be sick when you're not, then it's considered gross misconduct if you receive you normal pay. If he gets found out, disciplined and takes to a tribunal then they'll side with the company.

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denbunn@reddit

Agreed with above comment, it doesn’t sound like a good idea to pretend to be on jury service after it’s been cancelled

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Fit_Leadership_575@reddit

And what is he going to do when they reschedule him. He’s an arse, because it will happen.

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dprophet32@reddit

Yes it could be found out. Yes he'll likely be fired if he could.

It is absolutely not worth the risk. If he does it anyway he's a con with poor judgement and probably shouldn't be on a Jury in the first place

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DoIKnowYouHuman@reddit

What does your company offer for pay during jury duty? As they’ve no obligation to pay it’ll depend on that as to how interested they’ll be and how much effort they’ll go to to figure out if it happened

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