Advice on anchoring rules/etiquette
Posted by mikeysz@reddit | sailing | View on Reddit | 77 comments
So I (51ft monohull) am anchored in a bay and a luxury charter boat (motorboat ca 140ft) anchors nearby. Later that evening they radio in saying that they are expecting winds to pick up and if i would move my boat as they have guests onboard.
What are the regulations/etiquette regarding this? Would love to hear your thoughts or stories of similar situations.
ozamia@reddit
If they feel they're too close to you, they should move. It's not your problem. You shouldn't do a thing. I wouldn't even reply to them (not that I would have the VHF on while at anchor anyway).
skytomorrownow@reddit
Isn't still your problem from a practical perspective? If the 140ft boat makes no change, they could swing into the 50ft boat. How would you sleep knowing that? They might be wrong, but the smaller boat would still get smashed wouldn't it?
ozamia@reddit
It's a crewed boat, or more like a small ship. It's got thrusters on its thrusters and plenty of sensors. If they swing into you with all that at their disposal, it's intentional.
skytomorrownow@reddit
OK, thanks for that description. That makes sense. Just out of curiosity is there a length of boat where they switch from swinging to locking down with multiple anchors, etc.?
SVAuspicious@reddit
As others have pointed out, etiquette says first in stays put.
I'd point out that you, a recreational boater, were there first and anchored safely based on forecast weather. They, purportedly professional, came in after and did not anchor safely and were surprised by the weather. They have to move. You'll be happy to provide a weather forecast, time stamped, over your loud hailer so the yacht guests can benefit from an understanding of the poor skills of the person in whose hands they have placed their safety.
Then I'd look up the MMSI from their AIS and find the owner of the yacht and send them a note. A long note. If you can track down their insurance company I'd send them a copy.
For the record, I've never had a professional charter be so rude. Not ever. The owners would want to know. Heck, I'll help you write the email. As a professional, I'm offended.
Successful-Place5193@reddit
Very well said. I would expect this from bareboat charterers. Fishermen will do it just to piss off yachties!
SVAuspicious@reddit
I've never had a professional fisherman be a problem at anchor. Recreational fishing boats and even head boats are a different matter.
I do recall a bareboat charterer coming in late and anchoring nearby. A cold front (very clear from forecasts) came through overnight and brought in a wind shift and some breeze. The charterer ended up upwind of me and started dragging. Yes I can tell by eye. Radar and MARPA made it pretty clear. He was dragging. No response to a radio call. Yes it was 3am (why is it always 3am, it's raining, and I'm in my underwear?) but KEEP YOUR D@MN RADIO ON. So five blasts. It took three times to get someone up and in their cockpit, at which point he started yelling at ME for dragging on him. Now I've been around a long time but I've never mastered the skill of dragging upwind. Finally convinced him that he was indeed dragging at which point he wanted me to move. I asked him if that was so I'd be able to rescue him when he landed on the beach. I ended up dinghying over to help him move. Credit card captain. Had a chat with the charter company the next day. I don't know what if anything they did about it.
PositiveAtmosphere13@reddit
Not a boat person so I don't know.
How much work is it to move the boat?
busfeet@reddit
Are the winds actually forecast to pick up?
mikeysz@reddit (OP)
That is what I thought too, so last to anchor has to move. Am just not sure if there are rules (written or unwritten) about this.
ratafria@reddit
This is the rule.
Additionally everyone will try the 'good person' rules of 'if it doesn't cost me too much I will help you' as in giving more chain to allow for some space upwind, or a bit of horn if someone is dragging, etc... But not to an entitled captain. Exceptions could be made if they offer you a couple of bottles of good wine.
505ismagic@reddit
Yes, the correct solution is trade.
They picked their spot with you in place. If they'd like you to move, I'd suggest an appropriate thank you. Bottle of wine, a nice tray from the galley. There's a win win here somewhere. Something they value less than the headache of resetting, and you value more.
notarealaccount223@reddit
That last line is key.
I worked a seafood festival selling chowder and mostly fried foods. A few booths down was a fisherman collective selling basically a raw bar.
They come over asking if we would like to trade. We said sure and asked what they had in mind. Our stuff was much lower priced than theirs so we expected a few bowls of cowder and a dozen or two of clamcakes for maybe a half dozen oysters.
They did want a couple bowls and a dozen clamcakes, but offered two of their full platters. It was not even fair, but they would not take more food or anything else from us. They were super happy with the trade and we got some of the best oysters I've ever had.
SteelBandicoot@reddit
“This is sailing vessel Mikeysz calling “Stink boat Full of Tossers”. Standard rule for anchoring is first in first served. It’s your move, as in you have to move”
Forgot-Already@reddit
The unspoken rules as I know them: First boat to anchorage has their choice of where to anchor. All other boats coming in have the responsibility to set their anchor safely and consider tidal shifts and wind forecasts, and how different types of boats react differently to those changes. If they have any questions they should ask you what scope you have out and they should plan accordingly. Anyone that you think is not anchoring within a safe distance to you should be made aware of how much scope you have out and any conflicts you perceive, like “Winds are going to pick up at 9 o’clock. I have 130’ of chain out. What scope did you put out?”
LameBMX@reddit
I wish using an anchor markers was the norm around here. probably wouldn't help. still have some idiot like look, this marker looks like a good spot to drop 3x scope with 25 knots coming in.
me_too_999@reddit
I used to leave a buoy on my anchor.
But quickly stopped.
Repeatedly....
Boats ran between the buoy and my boat.
Several tried to moor on it.
And once large waves managed to yank my anchor loose. (Probably my fault for not leaving enough slack for an unusually high tide followed by rough weather)
So I abandoned the concept.
Saltyoldseadog55@reddit
I wish we had done this in tahiti.
We managed to snag a high voltage cable and pull it off the bottom with the windlass. Couldn't lift it off. We ended up tying line and a fender to it and dropped it back down. We pulled the line to free the anchor from the opposite direction.
me_too_999@reddit
It's highly recommended to use a float on your chain in Tahiti to keep it from wrapping around rocks.
I've heard of people having to hire an underwater welder to cut the chain.
I keep scuba gear on board and a large crowbar and spare chain so I can detach and hopefully recover the stuck chain.
Saltyoldseadog55@reddit
which is odd since the areas we were in, other than marina taina, were sandy bottoms. the diving bowl on the end of the runway with the sunken plane and cabin cruiser was all sand. mind you, it was surrounded by coral.
we tucked into the little bay by motu ovini to avoid a storm before our departure and we snagged the cable. pretty sure that was sandy bottom too.
Salt-y@reddit
For me, it depends on several factors. The difficulty in moving, is there a place as safe as the current location etc., but most importantly, was the other boat nice? Did they offer to help, bring drinks, or invite you on board? I had a very nice man ask me to move once because he wanted to buddy anchor with a boat that has not arrived yet. He came over with beer, asked nicely, and offered help. After I moved, he invited us over for dinner and drinks. In your case, they just wanted more buffer for their clients or didn't want to disrupt them by moving. It's time to turn up the heavy metal.
zenos_dog@reddit
First boat anchored has squatters rights. The other boat should reposition. Also, they probably know the wind forecast before they even anchored.
mover_of_bridges@reddit
Time to raise the jolly roger
Plastic_Table_8232@reddit
Recent post suggest firing a flair over the bow when encountering sailors with bad etiquette. Most of us csnt justify the cost of the cannon, so if we’re going to cosplay pirates I think it’s a totally acceptable substitute.
Legitimate_Put_5003@reddit
Nerf across the bow is also a reasonable measure
TheFluffiestRedditor@reddit
A recurve bow and a sheaf of arrows is not that expensive these days. Just saying.
SteelBandicoot@reddit
Put foam heads on the arrows and soak them in an obnoxious piss yellow or bile green dye. Actual piss is optional.
Or some plastic soft drink bottles filled with same and stuff a cloth in them. Looks like a Molotov cocktail and the cloth should dislodge on impact making a mess of their boat. Yelling “Cocktail hour!” is optional.
A couple of ideas that don’t involve murder and the inconvenience of having to dispose of bodies.
lustforrust@reddit
Foam heads is an awesome idea as they should float, allowing possible retrieving. I'd scrub the bilge and the head before shooting them. If you get in trouble with the coast guard, just tell them you were firing blanks.
Sublime-Prime@reddit
I am sorry we don’t own this we are boat sitting our friends boat . There is a company that we can call to will move if emergency they charge 2500.00 please remitted to my Venmo before we call them. It’s a win win
WindyWeston@reddit
Have them bring over two steak dinners and a bottle of champagne and you will be happy to reposition ~seriously
tiddeR-yeH@reddit
Why does having guests on board make a difference for a 140ft gin palace? If the crew (6,7?) can’t re-anchor in calm weather (you’re on Reddit, it can’t be that bad) without inconveniencing their guests then they aren’t fit to be in charge of the vessel. And as everyone else has said, you were there first. I smell a pretentious guest who thinks they need to be in a slightly different spot.
Available_Writer4144@reddit
Ask them what it's worth to them. Say you're too drunk. Tell them your engine is out. You have all the rights here.
LostBoyMike@reddit
I might move if they asked very nicely and provided some kind of reason why they couldn’t or offered me some thank you gift. You 100% have no obligation to do them a favor and I wouldn’t do it if they were rude or unpleasant about it or didn’t acknowledge that I’d be doing them a big favor.
jfinkpottery@reddit
I’d like to say that it’s free to ask. But unless there are extenuating circumstances, like they’re anchored in the only spot that can fit their draft, then I can’t imagine asking someone to move when they were there first. And I don’t know anyone who would ask that. It’s just not done.
Mrknowitall666@reddit
Oh, it is definitely done. But, the captain and crew aren't usually the ones truly asking.
mmaalex@reddit
Unless you're anchored in a spot controlled by VTS/CG/Harbormaster it's first come first served. If you guys can shuffle to make you both fit better/safer that might be a reasonable compromise worth making, but really if you were there first and he didn't feel there was enough space he can find another anchorage.
Bedrockab@reddit
Where’s the love!? Yes you have the right to not move but why? Is it that hard? Does it put you in jeopardy? Does he HAVE to stay where he is? Can you shift over and make it better for all? Why all the tension?? Let it slide as it might be you in his position some day.
No road rage in boating. Not a huge deal.
Living_Stranger_5602@reddit
Their problem not yours. I have done a few NYYC cruises with many different boats anchored in the same area… it is always interesting to see the sailboats responding to the current and the stinkpots to the wind. Interesting as in problematic.
Random-Mutant@reddit
Get on the VHF:
Big boat, little boat. Negative. Little boat, out.
gg562ggud485@reddit
“I’d be happy to move. What time should I arrive for the party?”
jaxn@reddit
Sounds like your radio is wasting battery
Spare-Builder-355@reddit
Yep, a real skipper of a real 50ft boat is asking for advice on Reddit when they are already anchored in a real lagoon and a real superyacht gets in contact with them. Seriously, what's the anchorage etiquette here?
me_too_999@reddit
Mostly ragebait, this rarely happens.
Your choice is always. Comply, or refuse.
Either way, they have zero recourse.
Worst case?
They call coastal authorities who will be pissed, and likely fine both boats.
ObvYoureNadaGolfer@reddit
Yay, justice served 🥴
zedsawlty@reddit
As the second boat, it’s definitely their job too anchor safely and give enough space. I can imagine a situation where a boat that size is limited on places in the anchorage and might ask you about moving. But if I were to do that, I would be pretty damn polite, acknowledging the favor I’m asking for and maybe even zipping over to drop off a bottle in appreciation.
Apoplexi1@reddit
My gut feeling is that a 51 feet sailboat is more limited than a 140 feet motor boat due to draft.
zedsawlty@reddit
Quite possible
fastautomation@reddit
My response would be "I would be happy to move but afte I move, I get stress for a while as I monitor my new anchor set. It makes it difficult to relax and I am completely out of bourbon."
TheFluffiestRedditor@reddit
Alternatively, "I've just finished my rum and not fit to skipper anything for the next four hours. I'll need more rum to remove those inhibitions and relocate."
Defiant-Giraffe@reddit
This is the answer. "Y'all got a bar on that boat? Got a nice bottle of whiskey?"
haroldslackenoffer@reddit
I heard of a similar situation. The smaller boat said sure, if the charter captain bought them dinner. They got $100 and a bottle of wine. I would definitely hold out for some kind of compensation.
_Face@reddit
well, give us an update!
SteelBandicoot@reddit
51ft yacht, sensibly arrived and anchored early.
Charter boat arrives, drops anchor and stuffs around for a couple of hours. Someone finally checks the weather a few hours later and realises the winds going to pick up…
And their lazy asses first response is to get you to move? In the dark? For their lack of planning?
Nope, that’s unreasonable.
What did you do?
SouthernHiker1@reddit
I mean, if they think it’s going to improve their tip from their paid guests, are they willing to share a few hundred with you?
_Face@reddit
$500 and a case of champagne
2airishuman@reddit
So let's start out by clearing the air. This is not in any way about anchoring etiquette or seamanship or weather or anything like that. This is strictly about a professionally crewed charter vessel trying to clear the anchorage of other boats to allow their millionaire clients to enjoy the anchorage in solitude. It's about exercise of privilege, and while deciding how to deal with it you should keep that fact foremost in mind.
Tradition, etiquette, and law all hold that boats arriving in an anchorage must anchor so as not to create a hazard for boats that arrived previously. The 150' charter yacht crew knows that and is choosing to disregard that.
Here are some choices:
1) You can stand your ground. You ask them to repeat their request over the VHF several times to be sure you understand. You say things like, "not sure what you're trying to say, have we dragged anchor since you arrived?" You ask how much scope they have out. You say things like, "I've checked the radar and it looks like there's plenty of room even if the wind shifts, please clarify your specific concern." Then you don't respond at all and stay in your spot and make them sweat.
2) You can make it clear you can be bought. Say that you aren't sure it's necessary to move and that you really like the spot you're in but maybe you'd be willing to move if there's a good reason. Tell them it might be easier to discuss this in person, could they send one of their crew over? If they don't get the hint and bring a case a Champagne, clarify your expectations.
3) You can just move. You didn't want to spend the night next to them anyway, and can afford your own Champagne, and the other side of the harbor looks just as nice.
Ultimately, the crew are doing their job because some rich client asked them if there was any way they could get "that sailboat" to go somewhere else. So don't take it out on the crew, they're just the messenger. World we live in.
Redfish680@reddit
Second boat owner probably thinks size/$ rules. Tell him you have hostages belowdecks, thank him for the weather update, and mix another drink.
TheFluffiestRedditor@reddit
I cackled! Nice response.
JaseTheAce@reddit
I’m stealing this!
Redfish680@reddit
I live to serve…
FarAwaySailor@reddit
Definitely their problem, not yours. I would not bend over backwards to accommodate their request, as, if something bad happens, you will then be the second boat anchored and more likely to be found at fault by insurers or legal authorities; despite you having moved at their request.
jh937hfiu3hrhv9@reddit
No rule only etiquette and they need to learn etiquette. Tell them you are going to raft up and crash their party instead.
mikeysz@reddit (OP)
Haha!!!
jh937hfiu3hrhv9@reddit
They can move the pig by pushing buttons. If they are concerned about where they moored they can push buttons and move. Do not let the bullies win.
Plastic_Table_8232@reddit
I would assume they also have a full time watch so if they reset and drag they are better equipped to handle the situation.
If OP’s anchor is set and he has good holding I would stand my ground or side step him.
I don’t like to lie, but sometimes it’s easier to defuse a bully by altering the situation.
I may be tempted to say “sorry captain, our auxiliary is offline and we are unable to comply with your request.”
jh937hfiu3hrhv9@reddit
Yeah well you know where assumptions get us. The only rule I can think of the applies is don't crash. It is incumbent upon on the subsequent skipper at a mooring to not crash. I would rather confront them than make excuses if I like my set. If they were bumming my view and refused to move then yeah cut out and flip them off.
OptiMom1534@reddit
First come first served. a lot of the stinkpot yachties think they are entitled to preferential treatment when the boss or charter guests are on board. But the reality is, you’re not obligated to oblige them. in fact, please don’t. they don’t own the anchorage, contrary to what the skipper’s or the owner’s ego would like you to believe.
Candygramformrmongo@reddit
Ask if they have insurance and who the carrier is.
Full-Photo5829@reddit
As others have said: soonest to anchor has priority. A boat of their size may have no option but to ask you to move, but then they're very much in the position of begging a favor and their attitude should be commensurate with that.
Jhe90@reddit
A bottle of wine, or so would not hurt.
Nice gesture of kindness. They can afford it.
Charles_W_Morgan@reddit
Rude and unprofessional. But, I probably would move, and consider it a favor that they warned me ahead of time they aren’t too smart and clearly a risk to be around.
freshboss4200@reddit
I would think the first to anchor rule applies, unless you positioned to take up the whole anchorage, kinda like taking two parking spots. Even then, probably your perogative
Then-Blueberry-6679@reddit
The second boat to arrive respects those already established. This is the same issue as coming into an anchorage and find that you are dragging or swinging into them. You don’t ask everyone else to move.
FestinaLente747@reddit
Did this actually happen to you? What was the out come?
Saltyoldseadog55@reddit
what do their guests have to do with wind and your boat?
their obligation, coming in after you, is to keep clear of your mooring.
full stop.
jzwinck@reddit
Ask if they'd like to send their tender over with a line attached to the stern of their yacht. You'll use that instead of your anchor. You'll then ride the tender back to their yacht for an enjoyable evening until you see fit to return to your boat.
I assume the reason they want you to move is that they see a spot you can anchor where they won't fit. Obviously at 140 ft and fully crewed they don't need to anchor at all. But it'd be more fun for them and for you to join forces and drink together than worry all night.
walnut_creek@reddit
In which bay was the Senator anchored?