Bird flu: Canadian teenager is critically ill with new genotype
Posted by Vegetaman916@reddit | collapse | View on Reddit | 216 comments
Posted by Vegetaman916@reddit | collapse | View on Reddit | 216 comments
SixGunZen@reddit
Keep in mind, COVID only killed around 2% of sufferers. H5N1 will kill 40%. Lots of folks weren't that sketched about catching COVID, and that's one of the biggest reasons we didn't see a complete breakdown of society because "essential" folks were still willing to work. With a 40% kill rate, people won't be willing to take any chances at all.
collapse-ModTeam@reddit
Rule 4: Keep information quality high.
Information quality must be kept high. More detailed information regarding our approaches to specific claims can be found on the Misinformation & False Claims page.
I know you mean well but please don't say with certainty it's 40%. It's largely unknown with such limited data, and someone reporting your comment said your numbers are outdated
Terriermonz@reddit
CFR is 50%~ but it's generally considered that it'll be lower due to low testing. A study from several years ago though says that that "lower" is probably between 14 and 33%, which is still devastating
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18477756/#:~:text=We%20suggest%20that%2C%20based%20on,present%20a%20truly%20dreadful%20scenario.
SixGunZen@reddit
Devastating enough that the police officer and the ambulance crew member have to consider whether it's worth it or not because at the rate society is breaking down, their chances of coming home to their families drops by the day. Meanwhile the chance they'll bring something home that kills one or two of their family members climbs on an upward curve. We got a little of that in 2020. Next round, if it's H5N1, will be a hell of a lot worse.
Terriermonz@reddit
I'm certainly not as essential as an ambulance driver, but I would also have to consider quitting my job which is devastating for me. I love my job, but I work in a nursing home, where diseases spread fast because it's in one building and the same staff, even with precautions. I remember that first covid winter. Every single resident was infected.
cabalavatar@reddit
More info here too: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/first-presumptive-avian-flu-case-in-humans-1.7381342
I've been getting lots of news about this because I'm in BC. Last I read, we still don't know where the teen got it from, which is really unfortunate for everyone. The teen was released after feeling better for a while but was then readmitted, which has me concerned about contact while she was out and about, but contact tracing hasn't turned anything new up. Is this an oddball case or as ominous as the reports (and the viral immunologist's posts) make it seem?
finch5@reddit
Why would we reintroduce patient zero to the population after the quote quote felt better is beyond me.
Free hospitalization paid for by the government and you’re locked down here in this negative pressure room for a while until we are 110% sure you are done with it.
Crazy.
7eventhSense@reddit
Canada has really bad Health care. Free doesn’t mean good. Americans are always being lied to.
jtbxiv@reddit
The exact same thing happened in bc with our first covid patient. Our healthcare system is in shambles.
qualmton@reddit
Fuck I couldn’t afford the bill I’m walking out as soon as I can
PlausiblyCoincident@reddit
The emergency department isn't going to know someone is patient zero for Bird Flu. It's always going to be the case that they'll first think it's something else. The modus operandi is, "it's never a zebra."
PlausiblyCoincident@reddit
I tried posting about it last week (but it got removed, the irony) and have been keeping up on it. They still have no idea where this person got it from even after testing some 40 people, and the cats, dogs and reptiles that they came into contact with. Reporting that I've read so far said the patient is unable to speak due to care so can't help identify how they may have contracted it, but fortunately they were out of school at the time so this situation was more contained.
It could be a one-off, but it could be the beginning of the end.
ForeverCanBe1Second@reddit
If you want to stay up to date: r/H5N1_AvianFlu
Careless_Equipment_3@reddit
I thought I read that it was believe the teen got it from walking the dog, who might of found a dead bird and put it in its mouth. If that was the case, the people need to be careful walking their dogs and pay attention to what they are sniffing at on the ground.
BritaB23@reddit
I think the dog tested negative.
Hour-Stable2050@reddit
Yes the dog did test negative but staying away from dead birds is always a good idea. They carry West Nile sometimes too.
BritaB23@reddit
Oh for sure, it's just that the origin is still in question since the dog was a bit of a dead end.
Hour-Stable2050@reddit
I got the impression they didn’t know the kid had bird flu yet when they were released.
Vegetaman916@reddit (OP)
Good link there.
I'm definitely concerned, as this is following a pattern of "confusing and bewildering" the doctors managing treatment, and that usually indicates new viral behavior or capabilities. As of now, we know mutations have occurred, but we do not know their full extent or where this particular case was sourced from.
Not good.
Lo_jak@reddit
It's still too early to say if this will be worse than COVID, it could mutate to be highly transmissible in humans but also become much less of a threat at the same time.
We just don't know how this will pan out.....make your preps, and that's all you can do at this point.
TheRealTengri@reddit
If this does become a pandemic, the next 4 years are the worst time it could possibly happen.
ManticoreMonday@reddit
Or the best, depending on your thoughts about overpopulation on this little blue-green marble in the unfashionable spiral of the Milky Way
It also depends on your opinions on what suffering is, how long you feel it should be endured for.
30-50% fatality rate would be incomprehensible for the first decade.
After that? Who knows.
Perhaps it's Nature's way of saying "Nice try on those abortion bans... My planet, no choice."
sad_me_im_sad@reddit
However, you do have to consider the fact that the 30 to 50 percent fatality rate is almost certainly much higher than it is in reality, given the fact that in past pandemics throughout the early 2000s, there were no systems in place to be able to detect the virus in a widespread manner, resulting in only the most severe cases being detected. This is in contrast to recent cases of the virus, in which all of the fifty or so patients within the US have had mild cases, and, especially with the development of a vaccine, it is possible that the effects of a potential pandemic could be much lower than often stated, although still pretty bad.
ManticoreMonday@reddit
Agreed.
It'll also be likely to hit the cities with public transportation.
If only we could come up with something to stop us breathing out sick air onto others. I'd love it if employers were required to give better sick leave, but that's not likely to happen anytime soon.
Gyirin@reddit
I think this potential pandemic will likely be worse than covid for the simple fact that it will hit when covid and its effects are around to stay. And many people are lot more vehemently against precaution procedures than they were in early 2020.
humongous_rabbit@reddit
BAU will continue. People will shove the corpses away in order to eat their stake or go to church.
LongTimeChinaTime@reddit
They did during the Black Death. You cannot shut the world down for pestilence. Life must push on.
Tearakan@reddit
Uh no they didn't. Entire countries collapsed. Hell the sheer amount of deaths during the pandemic is what gave rise to workers actually getting rights again. The nobles ran out of their massive peasant populations.
It changed the course of history forever
Throwawayhrjrbdh@reddit
“The nobles ran out of their massive peasant population”
Hmmmmmmmm; wonder if some modern day equivalents could be made….
Bajadasaurus@reddit
BAU?
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Baarderstoof@reddit
Good bot
Didn’t know BAU was suddenly a normal acronym to throw around
IGnuGnat@reddit
Language appears to be becoming increasingly acronymized
pandasarus@reddit
Not to mention COVID infections fuck with ones’ immune system…
sunshine-x@reddit
And lower your IQ apparently
Vegetaman916@reddit (OP)
Indeed. But as usual, I tend to look at the other "unconventional" side of the issue. Primarily the societal one.
Before covid, that was when we were still what passed for "normal." Covid itself, and the response to it, created a ton of divisive elements within society, and spawned all sorts of conspiracy weirdness that, while we laugh it off as stupid is still considered life-and-death to those who believe it.
Now, given the fact that the dividing lines have become much more pronounced over the election, and looking at having a brainworm (no offense to worms) in charge of the department of health in the US, even a pandemic more mild that covid could end up causing way more damage.
And if it is more seruois than covid... I simply do not think that our social cohesion can handle such a thing right now. It could very easily be the straw which breaks the camel's back and sends us into the kind of cascading failure that can spiral into full societal collapse.
That is the problem with looking at threats in a vacuum. Yes, the actual viral effects are one thing, but the way they play out in society are another. And given the interconnectedness of every aspect of civilization, enough turmoil in one place can throw the entire machine out of whack.
LongTimeChinaTime@reddit
Covid accelerated the divisiveness, it had been stewing on social media for several years leading up to that.
Grand-Page-1180@reddit
Another pandemic, another nightmare presidency, you can't write this stuff, no one would believe it.
Kaabiiisabeast@reddit
"Future historians will look back at this time and say-"
LOL! The only "future historians" that are going to be around after this is all over, are going to be batty monks living in caves.
TheHipcrimeVocab@reddit
Is this on top of the Monkeypox threat? https://www.cnn.com/2024/11/16/health/mpox-clade1-california-first/index.html
truthswillsetyoufree@reddit
Why are they allowed to isolate at home? They should be on lockdown somewhere. We are idiots.
Vegetaman916@reddit (OP)
SS: Here we go... The H5N1 sequence found in the hospitalized Canadian teenager case shows two important new mutations that improve the virus's ability to bind to human α2,6 sialic acid receptors.This adaptation is crucial for the virus's potential to spread between humans.
The virus is evolving
This is collapse related because, bad as covid was, this is much worse. Covid almost broke our society all on its own. How do you think we would fare with multiple wars raging, a new Trump presidency, and H5N1 reaching true H2H capability?
Here's a lot more info from Dr. Scott Hensley, a viral immunologist: [https://bsky.app/profile/scottehensley.bsky.social](https://bsky.app/profile/scottehensley.bsky.social
Ok_Entrepreneur_2650@reddit
COVID only almost broke our society due to stupidity which makes it more annoying that flu will be worse than that. Makes you apologize to disaster movies huh?
elziion@reddit
Oh no… this is sooo bad…
_rihter@reddit
At this point, it's a matter of time before someone gets hospitalized with bird flu and COVID-19 at the same time.
We are not ready for an additional pandemic on top of COVID-19, which, by the way. never went away. Air travel is back to pre-2020 levels, so bird flu won't take long to spread. We didn't learn anything from COVID.
On the other hand, it seems that a super-lethal bird flu pandemic is the only way to reduce CO2 emissions, so it's not all that bad.
Is there any hopium regarding bird flu vaccines? Or we're just screwed?
bannedin420@reddit
There is already vaccines they are just stock piled sorta speak, as in not mass produced yet. If it gets bad there will be a vaccine ready rather quickly. But the dumb anti vaccine people probably will spread it and then die.
Dangerous-Sort-6238@reddit
Sucks for them but 🤷♀️
ask_me_about_my_band@reddit
If all the antivaxers die from their own stupidity…wait, what’s the downside here?
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
[removed]
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Annual_Rooster_3621@reddit
not all of them die, many shitheads survived.
some of them go from being corporate project managers for tech companies, to failing into management positions in industries they have zero experience in whatsoever
its fuckin great
DeusExMcKenna@reddit
I felt this in my soul
BabadookishOnions@reddit
Their bodies will be incubators for new variants that reduce the effectiveness of vaccines, and also kill the immunocompromised who can't get vaccinated safely. So yeah there's some big downsides.
doughball27@reddit
Problem is that the anti vaxxers will breed new strains that will reduce the effectiveness of the existing vaccines.
thornberrylc47@reddit
If you don't know by now the Covid vax was a complete sham, I don't know what to tell you. I pray you don't drop dead like so, so, so, many others. Repent too. Your DNA has changed. Your way less human than you were.
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PotatoDrives@reddit
I think we'll see any even stronger anti-vax movement when the next pandemic hits.
Vegetaman916@reddit (OP)
A recombination of covid and something else has always been one of my nightmare scenarios that I wrote about back in the day. I was originally looking at the potential with MERS...
But one thing is for sure, this thing is making moves. Similar moves to other viral diseases on their way towards evolutionary jumps.
And now, as fractured as society has become, with major wars in process and the circus peanut in charge of the American machine...
This is bad.
_rihter@reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/PrepperIntel/comments/1gtdeye/the_current_status_of_bird_flu_pandemic/
WHO: Preparing for containment and mitigation of pandemic H5N1 influenza
The H5N1 pandemic seems inevitable. I'll probably dedicate more time to studying it and preparing, although COVID completely burned me out.
I don't think anyone's ready for it, though.
IGnuGnat@reddit
I honestly just see Covid as a practice run lol
rainydays052020@reddit
I don’t think a coronavirus can combine with an influenza virus but I am not a virologist in any regard. The danger would probably be that the immune dysfunction from covid infections allows for more influenza mutations, like with HIV patients.
LeahBrahms@reddit
We learned to give RFK jnr the keys to viral defense... /S
Classic-Today-4367@reddit
I wonder who Trump blames it on this time round? Seeing as there doesn't appear to be any China-specific origin.
Just think, another pandemic of a virus that has much higher mortality, just in time for Trump and his coterie of deniers to be in charge. With the anti-vax czar running the FDA (into the ground).
ZealousidealAct3910@reddit
Oh ya total natural coincidence to get 2 pandemic level events so close together.
IGnuGnat@reddit
We've been statistically way overdue
Significant_Swing_76@reddit
The rest of the world may just name it “Americovid”.
Or, maybe “Trump virus”, especially if it destroys the infected persons brain.
But yeah, imagine a new pandemic, with RFK as head of public health, the CDC gutted and the federal government in shambles…
Classic-Today-4367@reddit
MAGAvid
Gas-Short@reddit
Corvid
GardenRafters@reddit
Theyll blame it on the "liberals" and use it as a reason to slaughter us in the streets
Ok-Car3736@reddit
Natural selection nature always should be let to take its course.
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npcknapsack@reddit
Maybe he'll privately say it's only affecting blue cities and requisition all the hospital equipment to send to Russia.
salomanasx@reddit
He will blame whoever Putin and right wing media tell him to blame
Bajadasaurus@reddit
He'll blame it on mostly brown migrant workers on dairy farms, and cite public safety measures as a reason to round people up for deportation/"quarantine".
finishedarticle@reddit
// a super-lethal bird flu pandemic is the only way to reduce CO2 emissions //
Bear in mind that a sudden drop in economic activity will have a very adversse effect on the Aerosol Masking Effect - temps will spike as a result of a bird flu pandemic.
deter@reddit
Nature recovered during COVID lockdowns.
jackfruitjohn@reddit
Do you know if Dr. Hansen’s research describes parameters for an upward limit to temperature increase spikes as a result of decreased aerosol masking effect?
Isaiah_The_Bun@reddit
You sound very capable of finding that information on your own.
jackfruitjohn@reddit
I’m not asking just for my own benefit. I’m contributing towards conversation about collapse because that’s how this platform works and how communities become better informed.
Forsaken_Guitar_7696@reddit
God forbid people have discussion and ask questions on a text-based forum.
Armouredmonk989@reddit
It is that bad you forget aerosol masking effect and how fucked we would be if we stopped polluting.
Isaiah_The_Bun@reddit
And what happens if we don't stop polluting? Lol
Armouredmonk989@reddit
Catch22 we cooked either way.
TheCrazedTank@reddit
Actually, thanks to the unprecedented cooperation in the scientific community and the development of new gene-therapy it probably won’t take as long to develop a vaccine as it had to make the vaccines for Covid…
The problem will be getting people to take it, especially with Ol’ Brain-Worm in charge of things down in the States.
poop-machines@reddit
We have flu vaccines which help against bird flu.
Taqueria_Style@reddit
Vaccines? We have an anti-vaxxer as the guy in charge of health related everything...
Aidian@reddit
RFK fully AFK.
TeutonJon78@reddit
There is already a working H5N1 vaccine, but supplies are limited. I think the US has 5M doses of it, so it only goes to st risk farm workers. And probably only if they ask for it.
birdflustocks@reddit
Vaccines are fundamentally problematic because we don't know the pandemic strain yet. But you can find something positive here:
https://archive.org/details/solving-influenza-cidara-therapeutics
Here are all the articles that describe the issues, the Strategic National Stockpile is even under investigation for failing to procure:
https://d1dth6e84htgma.cloudfront.net/05_09_24_Letter_to_ASPR_re_SNS_Contracting_Problems_2_222e0602e7.pdf
Vaccines
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-bird-flu-vaccine-might-come-too-late-to-save-us-from-h5n1/
https://www.statnews.com/2024/05/22/h5n1-bird-flu-vaccine-questions-and-answers/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/11/bird-flu-human-transmission-prepared-pandemic
https://www.statnews.com/2024/04/24/h5n1-bird-flu-vaccine-preparedness/
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bird-flu-vaccine-chicken-eggs-researching-alternatives/
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/17/health/bird-flu-pandemic-humans.html
Antivirals
https://undark.org/2024/09/23/h5n1-old-drug-protect-against-new-pandemic/
https://fortune.com/2024/06/24/us-strategic-drug-stockpile-inadequate-bird-flu-outbreak/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/04/23/bird-flu-h5n1-plan-pandemic/
Hour-Stable2050@reddit
Read the link. It looks like H5N1 will be similar to the 1918 bird flu that took out the young and healthy more than anyone else. That seems more tragic as they haven’t had a chance to live yet. And it will be harder on society to lose the young.
Vegetaman916@reddit (OP)
Yeah, it isn't going to be good for anyone. Once again, the extreme isolation of our own little community compound is looking attractive. Depending on how this develops, I might be heading out again soon... we shall see.
skinnyblonde323@reddit
Wow good thing we have a medical expert/vaccine denier/all around kook on board
Vegetaman916@reddit (OP)
Yes, that should nip this in the bud...
Senora_Snarky_Bruja@reddit
Great. I just started a new MS med that kills my B-cells.
throwaway747999@reddit
Getting Jan/Feb 2020 flashbacks. I really hope this doesn't turn into another pandemic; couldn't happen at a worse time too.
humongous_rabbit@reddit
No tests, no virus. /s
ShareholderDemands@reddit
Yep. This time the masses will simply be allowed to die off.
GridDown55@reddit
Or, like, wear a mask. The masses have ignored this strategy.
Immediate_Degree_119@reddit
I just don't understand peoples' aversion to masks. If most people can handle wearing underwear, most people can handle wearing a mask.
thornberrylc47@reddit
The people who got the vax "died off" and are still dying off.
My wife and I never got the vax, never ever got sick. We delivered groceries all through the "pandemic" and after.
All these healthy people in the prime of their lives just dropping over dead isn't normal. So whatever you want to tell yourself at night to sleep a little bit better. That the Covid vax saved lives. Haha
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Bigtimeknitter@reddit
Which BTW is terrible for the economy
McKbearcat@reddit
Great for the environment though. Silver lining
Bigtimeknitter@reddit
Helllll yeah it is!!!
Legionheir@reddit
Thanks biden
Creamofwheatski@reddit
Not if you are already rich. They made out like bandits cause they had an excuse to price gouge for literally everything.
Prior-Win-4729@reddit
Exactly this. You will not get credible information from this next administration. We are on our own. Prepare to protect yourself and your family.
voice-of-reason_@reddit
Just check Europe instead, we will lead the way socially for the next 4 years.
forthewatch39@reddit
Um, you guys aren’t doing so great considering the rise of the far right on your continent as well.
voice-of-reason_@reddit
The difference is we haven’t welcomed them into the government with open arms which I’d say is quite significant.
The far right in Europe are closeted racists who are annoyed about themselves and see a migration crisis to blame.
The far right in the USA literally fly the Nazi flag and align more with the Confederates than Americans.
At the end of the day it isn’t a “who has the worst right wing” competition but the situation in Europe is much more tame compared to the USA.
I say this with love, do not underestimate how fucked the next 4 years will be for the USA, let’s hope your constitution holds up against Trump.
Veganees@reddit
Ehhhhh, I don't know where you live, but the extreme right is definitely in the government in the Netherlands.
voice-of-reason_@reddit
To be fair I think even trump will be forced to take it seriously when people are dropping dead from a 50% mortality rate.
Covid was easy to mishandle and get away with because of its lower kill rate. Bird flu won’t leave us that luxury.
malcolmrey@reddit
Usually high mortality viruses don't spread for too long (since the carriers die off)
dovercliff@reddit
Unfortunately, the exceptions to that "usually" are frequently devastating. The deadlier, and more common, variant of Smallpox sustained about a 30% mortality rate for its entire 3000-plus-year existence (in populations already exposed; in virgin populations, like the Americas, the fatality rate was much higher) and was always extremely contagious.
Hour-Stable2050@reddit
The kid can’t be the only one. They got it from somewhere.
Bigtimeknitter@reddit
It can be from interaction with a bird poop, like on a bench
Prior-Win-4729@reddit
This is why I have always been super sketched out by bird poop.
Hour-Stable2050@reddit
Yeah, I’ve been hit by seagull poop twice. (I’ve almost always lived near Lake Ontario.) It’s gonna gross me out even more now. And I’ll be sure to clean up even better next time.
Prior-Win-4729@reddit
haha, I was pooped on by a seagull near Lake Ontario when I was a kid. So gross, and it basically covered my whole arm and shirt.
I've always thought that bird poop was a good way to get diseases and I can't believe how unconcerned people are about pigeon-poop covered benches and urban places. No way I will touch that with any part of my body or clothes.
I've lived near urban places absolutely caked in pigeon poop that everyone walks/rides bikes through all day and night. I'm a biologist and I super alarmed.
Hour-Stable2050@reddit
Even if that was the case, it means birds are carrying a virus that has mutations that improve human to human transmission. Not good, not good at all.
Bayaco_Tooch@reddit
I tend to disagree about the timing. Let the new administration have the onus of responding. Sure, sadly the response is going to be royally fucked and potentially billions will die, but perhaps some housekeeping and a humanity reset is in order and the earth gets a little break as the cogs stop. Maybe we come out better on the other side. Maybe we go back to trusting the scientists. And as the survivors recant who was in charge when this plague hit, perhaps right wing zealots will never be allowed in a position of power again.
A boy can dream, can’t he?
Rosuvastatine@reddit
This is happening in Canada, not sure why youre immediately jumping on centering it to the US
Bayaco_Tooch@reddit
Ok… and Covid 19 was originally centered on China but it spread worldwide. This is a collapse sub where investigate, ponder, lament cataclysmic events that will undoubtedly affect society as a whole. Canada isn’t in a vacuum. Should a variant of H5N1 that is transmissible between humans spread worldwide, it really doesn’t matter if it started in BC, Busan, or Baltimore. My experience is going to be largely subject to how the ‘leaders’ of the country I live in handle it.
IGnuGnat@reddit
I have HI/MCAS, it means normal healthy food poisons me, many healthy vegetables are actually high in histamine so the healthier I tried to eat, the sicker I got. Processed meat of any kind = projectile vomiting because fermentation magnifies histamine and surface area magnifies fermentation. However, I can still eat fresh meat (except beef because it's not fresh)
Also, it appears that the manifestation of this disease results in me craving fresh meat.
Evidence is accumulating inexorably that Covid attaches to the histamine receptors on the surface of the cell, resulting in higher rates of HI/MCAS
So I asked in support groups for long haul Covid, and ran some polls:
the consensus was that a majority of responders craved fresh meat or more meat after long haul Covid, with a minority switching to vegetarianism post Covid. There was a significant number of responders who reported that there had been vegetarian, but felt that they could not survive unless they ate meat, post Covid.
A lot of people note that there sense of hunger changes post Covid and post HI/MCAS
Shortymac09@reddit
Are you willing to be one of those "that has to die"? Are you willing to let your loved ones be one of "those that have to die"?
Gergoreous@reddit
Absolutely. Well, myself anyway
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
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Top_Hair_8984@reddit
I'm there right along with you. Anything's possible these days, might as well fantasize.
toomuchmucil@reddit
Mother Nature saying, “Tell Trump, I want him to know it was me.”
LetGo_n_LetDarwin@reddit
You mean the best time…let him deal with a pandemic right at the beginning of his term! They won’t do any testing, social distancing, or masking. It would be such a bigger disaster than Covid. Those of us who know better would be masking and taking precautions.
With any luck, our surplus of idiots would be reduced.
LongTimeChinaTime@reddit
Dude come on. Covid unfolded during Trump’s first presidency. ALL of those measures happened under Trump, even though he initially took a dismissive attitude in the first few weeks. You can’t blame Trump for everything.
Creamofwheatski@reddit
As time goes on, you will feel better about not voting for Trump but much, much worse about sitting the election out altogether. Remember, you and the ten million dems that sat out the election are the reason they are about to destroy the government, kill the middle class, and build concentration camps in America for millions of people. We needed you guys to do your civic duty, now we all get to suffer under fascism, great job.
IGnuGnat@reddit
As a Canadian it from here it looked like your government has already been destroyed and captured by corporations whilst you argue about blue and red anyway, and your middle class has been destroyed at a far higher rate due to lack of health care. I don't know what you mean about concentration camps, is Trump building them or something?
LetGo_n_LetDarwin@reddit
No, you come on. Torn between voting for Harris or Trump?!? WTF…
MoreRopePlease@reddit
Those measures happened because we had a functioning CDC, health dept, etc.
TeutonJon78@reddit
Well have a little solace. We already SARS-COV-2 was human to human then and just starting to spread.
The current bird flu strain aren't there yet. This would be more like watching SARS-COV-2 in 2018 or 2019. And hopefully we won't get there, but the rate at which it's working through mammals compared to how long it didn't isn't great.
voice-of-reason_@reddit
I’m tired Hoss…
RustToRedemption@reddit
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
MuckyDuff@reddit
Received this letter from our School District this week, as I live in the area the teenager is from. I was glad to see they are taking this seriously and addressing it, as no one around me seems to even know about what has been happening with H5N1.
Vegetaman916@reddit (OP)
That is a good sign, for sure. Here in the US, I haven't seen any signs of it being taken seriously at all...
Lovely5596@reddit
Can anyone who’s been on this sub for a long time talk about the point when covid really picked up? Like are we in that time now, or the precursor to that time? Are we in December 2019 or February 2020? 😬
Unique_Bath8676@reddit
I want to say it really picked up around late Feb/early March 2020 when they discovered there was a critically ill COVID patient in Northern California who acquired the virus from an unknown source. That was about the same time they discovered cryptic COVID transmission was occurring in Washington state - it felt like the virus started ramping up from there.
I feel like we’re in the precursor to that time. If they discover more cases on the West Coast (or anywhere) not connected to the agricultural industry or contact with dead/sick birds, then I would say that’s when it’s going to start ripping.
Logical-Race8871@reddit
There were a couple mass illness events up here in December 2019 that I don't think ever got confirmed as COVID, but it blew through for at least a month before the first confirmed case.
Turns out we don't test for novel communicable diseases when you go to the doctor for symptoms. It's only really when you get inpatient care that you get any labs done, because insurance won't dare pay for preventative care, even if the global fucking economy depends on it.
You just have "The Flu" until you're in "The Hospital", lol
Weirdinary@reddit
The easiest way to understand what's going on is to play the game Plague Inc.
Middle_Manager_Karen@reddit
It was after covid left wuhan and 30 cases appeared in a nearby city.
The R0 is the thing to watch. It creates exponential transmission.
I freaked out when 2 weeks apart 3 cities in China had 20 cases each.
3 months later we were not letting cruises Ships let people off.
Within a month lock downs
insomniacinsanity@reddit
I'm at the epicenter of this thing in Canada, doing animal destruction work because the government is short handed
We've been working 100 hour weeks and we're still behind
Took off like wildfire this year and this is a pretty dangerous new development
Y'all best hope this thing doesn't make the jump to human to human transmission or we're fucked
trickortreat89@reddit
I can already now say that it will. I’m sorry but your comment makes kinda the final proof for me… I know we like to hope differently, we like to hope for the best, but it’s just not realistic that bird flu won’t make that jump fairly soon.
There’s SO MUCH livestock in this world, I mean basically the mass of all living animals in this world is now 90% cows, pigs and chicken. I was hoping it could be easy to contain the virus within a population of livestock because - well aren’t they supposed to take all their measures and safety controls? But your comment just confirmed that even if they do take their measures, it’s not enough…
Bird flu is out there now and spreading very actively between livestock and this is really a huge success for the virus itself, since there’s extremely many hosts for it to infect.
Since humans are the one other species that comes in contact with livestock the most, we will almost certainly be the next host for this virus, and we already seem to be slowly, thus it is just a matter of time (short time) before we can infect each other.
trickortreat89@reddit
It’s just a matter of time, and that time might be shorter than we think. It’s obviously spreading amongst livestock actively and since we’re now like 90% livestock and humans in this world compared to wild animals, there’s a lot of potential for Bird flu to continue jumping to humans. And it’s therefore also extremely likely (I’d say inevitably/certain but we cannot of course use this word in science) that it will mutate to spread from human to human.
ArtisanalDickCheeses@reddit
Here we gooooo!!! And N95 masks are waaaay fucking up in prices since last time. Also tried looking on Amazon and they're all counterfeit
Terriermonz@reddit
I use breatheteq kn95s for filtering out smoke and dust because I have asthma and that makes me sick (and n95s usually make me lightheaded). They work super well, haven't tried them for covid etc yet, but have heard from other people that they used them around covid positive people and didn't get sick.
Of course now that I said that they'll probably get more expensive (half joking)
If we ever get mask shortages I'll start getting very sick again not from just the viruses, but from being unable to filter out the smoke during wildfire season.
ArtisanalDickCheeses@reddit
I hate wildfire 'season'. I'm in Washington so it sucks when the season is 6 months long. My areas have been somewhat lucky the past 2 years
Terriermonz@reddit
Yeah, I only just developed asthma last year because of wildfire season. My lungs were damaged over and over because it was from silent acid reflux into my lungs that oddly only reacts to breathing in smoke and dust. Finally got a diagnosis and am healing finally. Just in time for bird flu to come fuck it up lol
vagabond-playing@reddit
how can you tell which are genuine and which aren’t?
MoreRopePlease@reddit
Check out the company BonaFide Masks.
plagueofstars555@reddit
I thought I read it isn’t Novel and so they have a vaccine ready for this one.
Vegetaman916@reddit (OP)
That was regular H5N1, without the new mutations. No doubt they will have a vax for this soon, too, if they are on their game... but how many will take it? Will the new dept of health support it? Will the government help roll it out?
I'm gonna say it's a problem, vax or no vax.
StaffUnable1226@reddit
How would someone who doesnt work in poultry, such as myself, get a bird flu vaccine?
plagueofstars555@reddit
Shoot yeah, forgot about the next administration, especially RFK Jr…. Yep. Fucked.
Terriermonz@reddit
This poor kid. I really hope they survive and don't just become a statistic to all of us who are worried and watching bird flu unfold.
hairy_ass_truman@reddit
Time to buy all the toilet paper
IGnuGnat@reddit
Every right thinking person owns a bidet by now
I own one. I've been to lazy to install it though
Shortymac09@reddit
I will never be without TP again...!
CouldHaveBeenAPun@reddit
And a couple of N95, for good measures.
Hour-Stable2050@reddit
I,already have hundreds of those.
lilith_-_-@reddit
The best time to prep for this was six months ago. According the h5n1 subreddit. That’s when I did.
CouldHaveBeenAPun@reddit
Best time was 6 month ago. Second best time is today.
User9705@reddit
Still have lots left over from before
SavingsDimensions74@reddit
I think an interesting component will be social control and the social contract.
For a multitude of reasons, I don’t see people being any way near as compliant for our next pandemic.
In the UK, where I was at the time of the pandemic and with pretty significant curtailments to our daily lives and it emerged that Downing Street (PM residence) appear to have been having parties every other day. This has damaged trust in our leaders at a time when trust was already eroded at the same time as being really needed.
Pandemic v2.0 is likely to be much worse. mRNA plug and play vaccines might help us but I suspect this will be offset by all the other negative vectors.
People also forget that Omicron massively out competed Delta and other variants. It was just a flip of the coin it was much less virulent. It could just as easily being more deadly than delta and if it had we’d be having a different conversation.
We might not the a lucky coin toss next time
Hour-Stable2050@reddit
Not exactly a coin toss. Viruses tend to be the most deadly when they first attain human to human transmission. It is not in the interest of the virus to kill its host, so less deadly, but more transmissible mutants tend to win out eventually. This is why it’s important to be especially careful when a pandemic first starts, when it’s highly deadly and there are no vaccines. If you catch it later it won’t be as bad.
Awkward_Tower3891@reddit
I had covid twuce, about 16 months apart. 2nd time flooded me completely for a week. 1st time I was completely fine.
Hour-Stable2050@reddit
My sister said the same thing. But one off anecdotes don’t mean anything. That could be for a lot of reasons, like maybe your immune system was weakened by the first infection. I’ve read the more times you catch it the higher your risk of long COVID too. That doesn’t mean the virus is worse every time you catch it.
IGnuGnat@reddit
Probably the size of the initial particles resulting in infection matter also. A few tiny aerosolized particles whiffed in passing on the street = mild symptoms, sitting in an office with poor ventilation next to your antimasker coworker for a few hours = sicker
SavingsDimensions74@reddit
Do you a source for viruses being most deadly when they first attain human to human transmission- would be very interested to read about this - thanks
forgot-my-toothbrush@reddit
People don't "forget" that bit of information, people genuinely believe that viruses are less deadly when they more contagious. I've seen people repeatedly speculating that once H5N1 starts transmitting h2h that it will have to become "mild" in order to spread.
People also believe that a fatality rate of 2% is "no big deal", masks harm immune systems, and exposure to viruses is good for us.
The level of disinformation that we're going to have to fight in the next pandemic is staggering.
IGnuGnat@reddit
"My family member died because your bird flu vaxxine caused you to shed; you shed your dirty bird flu vaccine particles and it killed my family member. cough cough" anti-vaxxer quote from the next pandemic
FVCEGANG@reddit
Generally viruses tend to evolve to be less deadly and not more deadly.
I'm not saying that's what is happening here, but a viruses main goal is to spread and survive. Well it can't do that well when the host dies and thus cannot spread the virus
SavingsDimensions74@reddit
If a virus can manage to spread effectively, there is zero need to select for morbidity either way.
Organisms select for survival and reproduction.
The worst case virus is one that transfers easily (e.g. airborne), has delayed symptoms or is asymptomatic in some cases. If it achieves these things it doesn’t need to be more or less lethal.
Viruses becoming less virulent over time is an old wives tale
FVCEGANG@reddit
Viruses thrive by living in a host as long as possible. Again killing the host defeats the purpose of an effective virus.
Any major thriving virus has already proven this (see common cold, flu, covid, etc)
collapse-ModTeam@reddit
Hi, FVCEGANG. Thanks for contributing. However, your comment was removed from /r/collapse for:
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SavingsDimensions74@reddit
No, a virus thrives by surviving long enough to reproduce. It doesn’t select for its grandchildren.
Killing the host before it achieves this objective, obvious takes it out of the gene pool. But absent killing its host too quickly, spreading between hosts is a good survival mechanism.
I could be wrong but I think you’re confusing adaptation of our immune systems with a virus naturally selecting because of virulence
burpinsoldier69@reddit
I say bring it on…Trump supporters reap what they sow.
funkybunch1624@reddit
if you dont report these things then nobody will know. if nobody knows then you dont have any issue. right?
hamsterpookie@reddit
Ugh why isn't there a vaccine for this.
Bigtimeknitter@reddit
It's new
hamsterpookie@reddit
It's not that new. We've been watching it for a few years now. Even if it's not the exact strand, making a vaccine off of an adjacent strand should give us some protection as well.
Bigtimeknitter@reddit
There is a vaccine of an adjacent strand lmao
howdiedoodie66@reddit
Well this is horrifying
FederalFlamingo8946@reddit
All this to remind us that life is a contract that can be terminated at any moment, and that there is no point in hoping for anything.
herpderption@reddit
After a fashion. For anything you'd be inclined to hope for it's probably just better to act on it instead. Even if both approaches end up pointless at least one of them gets the mind engaged...and that's something.
FederalFlamingo8946@reddit
What
herpderption@reddit
I was responding to you saying that we can die at anytime and there's no point in hoping for anything with something a little less terminally depressing.
FederalFlamingo8946@reddit
Im literally the flamingo of collapse, I bring depression like Santa brings presents
herpderption@reddit
Fair enough, good tidings in the coming bizarrely warm season!
icanseepeas@reddit
Actually would rather tip out with a virus than have to watch Trump make a ruin out of everything I have known. Now it’s just a race.
FederalFlamingo8946@reddit
All politicians are the same, they all lie and protect their supposed authority with violence
KarmaYogadog@reddit
Utter hogwash. There are a whole range of people in politics, from the morally bankrupt greedy ones all the way to the Paul Wellstone and John Lewis types. I understand cynicism but your statement is off the cuff and dumb. You should consider deleting it.
FederalFlamingo8946@reddit
Look, not only am I not deleting it, but I'm writing it a second time just for you: all politicians are the same, they all lie and protect their supposed authority with violence
fivenoir@reddit
_rihter@reddit
Memento mori.
thesky_watchesyou@reddit
Jesus, symptoms began around Oct. 31
DumpsterDay@reddit
RTO 5 days a week 7 hours a day. Let's gucking go!
JournalistBitter5934@reddit
Oh joy, we know who will get them blame. Never trust Canada!
twoquarters@reddit
If kids die in significant numbers, fear is going to dictate what happens next. The COVID playbook won't work and they'll be begging for vaccines.
rainydays052020@reddit
mpox clade 1b (the more lethal one) was also found in a traveller in California this week…
BowelMan@reddit
Wouldn't be a true Trump presidency without a pandemic.
Hour-Stable2050@reddit
This is really terrible news. Maybe it’s time for Canada to ramp up all its new vaccine manufacturing plants and produce at least enough vaccine for health care workers for a start. They can use the strain the kid has.
spectral_emission@reddit
Everyone just calm down, there is no need to panic. They are putting a brain worm in charge of HHS and I heard the plan was to go door to door starting next month to deliver an infected chicken to every home to help build up natural immunity. If that doesn’t work, there will be a program where you can opt out of receiving your IRS refund to get ivermectin from the government.
F0xtr0tUnif0rm@reddit
Just take your vitamin C, D, and I(vermectin)!
Taqueria_Style@reddit
Ya an de vitamin S (Arnold voice)
Taqueria_Style@reddit
Straight up horror movies at this point. I'm going to Vegas. Screw it.
InternationalBand494@reddit
Ah! A new pandemic for Trump to fuck up and brain worm to insist it can be cured by desecrating animal corpses
nihilist09@reddit
Probably cytokine storm as seen in young healthy people with Covid and H5N1, your strong immune system acts against you
CaptinACAB@reddit
Just in time for worm brain to gut HHS here in the states.
Slackersr@reddit
M-pox firing up on the West coast of the USA.
StatementBot@reddit
The following submission statement was provided by /u/Vegetaman916:
SS: Here we go... The H5N1 sequence found in the hospitalized Canadian teenager case shows two important new mutations that improve the virus's ability to bind to human α2,6 sialic acid receptors.This adaptation is crucial for the virus's potential to spread between humans.
The virus is evolving
This is collapse related because, bad as covid was, this is much worse. Covid almost broke our society all on its own. How do you think we would fare with multiple wars raging, a new Trump presidency, and H5N1 reaching true H2H capability?
Here's a lot more info from Dr. Scott Hensley, a viral immunologist: https://bsky.app/profile/scottehensley.bsky.social
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1gt5ajz/bird_flu_canadian_teenager_is_critically_ill_with/lxjm2th/