Why don’t drivers coalesce and start their own company?

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TheJuggernaut043@reddit

The industry was like that in before 1980. Good realtions with D.C. mostly union, Private fleets and there were barriers to entry for new trucking companies.

Now with low profit margins in OTR trucking wouldn't make much difference. If a few move backfire on your company your stuck with a 103% operating margin Like Heartland Express.

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I got mixed feelings on the MCA, on one hand having to get permission per lane from the govt is central economic planning nonsense, but on the other hand they kept wages high and working conditions somewhat better.

what they really need to do is repeal the FLSA exemption so drivers get hourly and OT like most other workers, it'll drive a lotta companies outta business but push up wages for those that remain in the long run

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TheJuggernaut043@reddit

The problem with OT is drivers would sit all day collecting OT. You know its a problem when even California exempts drivers from OT.

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ProudChoferesClaseB@reddit

I think with driver facing cameras + audio recording, logs, and GPS tracking employers can figure out when their employees are working or not.

We need to stop with the excuses to avoid Fair Pay for drivers!

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TheJuggernaut043@reddit

Good idea, fleets with driver facing cameras (and ai) are no longer exempt from OT!

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ThreeQuartersSerious@reddit

To be fair, Heartlands been stuck paying CFI’s debt, re-acquiring CFI’s old customers & liquidating all the unused equipment CFI has, once Cfi is profitable heartland will probably be fine. (Not great, as far as profit goes, but they’ll be OK).

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spyder7723@reddit

My question is why do you think a bunch of random truck drivers have the skills needed to run a trucking company?

I actually own a trucking company, and because I started it with just myself and an old beat pos truck in have the first hand Rosie's to be able to say that driving a truck is literally the easiest part of trucking. Every other part of a trucking company takes skills that are far harder and more compared to master than driving a truck.

I'll get a lot of downvotes for this statement but the cold hard truth is I can find and hire 10 GOOD truck drivers far easier than I can a single half ass decent dispatcher. And a good dispatcher? I could replace every driver on the pay easier than i could my best dispatcher. Does this mean i don't value my drivers? Of course not. I'm just stating the basic fact of how, relative to other employees, drivers are easy to replace. And i say this with strict hiring standards. You won't even get an interview if you don't have a squeaky clean mvr with 10 years driving history 5 of those in open deck. I only hire the cream of the crop, and yet i never need drivers. That's just the cold hard facts, drivers are a replaceable cog in the machine. I know it sucks to hear, but hearing a painful truth is better than a bunch of meaningless empty platitudes about how special you are.

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ProudChoferesClaseB@reddit

the drivers would have to almost all be experienced, maybe taking on a rookie once in a while to train, and be on a similar page.

there *are* workers co-ops, you've prolly seen them in college towns as grocery coops, but they gotta be set up right and the folks working there hafta believe in the concept of self-management and responsibility.

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spyder7723@reddit

there are workers co-ops, you've prolly seen them in college towns as grocery coops,

And none of them woulf last a week in trucking. Trucking isn't some kumbaya camp where every one holds hands and sings along. A little niche grocery store in a college town marketing to college kids where customers walk in the door just to check the place out and make a purchase for the feels/ coolness factor of supporting this coop isn't the same thing as a business to business relationship where general motors, nucor, kellog,tyson, walmart, etc etc etc don't give a fuck about your feelings. They only care about performance and competitive pricing. In trucking the potential customers are cold hearted corporations. What can you offer them? How do you earn their business away from the swifts and prime of the trucking world?

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ProudChoferesClaseB@reddit

Seeing how these companies you mentioned expend huge amounts of money on Dei and union busting they definitely care about more than just their bottom line they care about politics and perception too

Companies are Political Animals

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spyder7723@reddit

Le sigh. Thank you for proving my point. Random truck driver thinks he knows more than people that actually negotiate freight contracts, owns trucks and hired drivers.

So since you know all about the industry why don't you go start a trucking company and show me how its done. And don't give me the no capital bs. I started with just a few thousand dollars in my pocket and an empty stomach.

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ProudChoferesClaseB@reddit

If you want to put in all that effort that's on you, not my cup of tea.

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MostOriginalNameEver@reddit

My crazy idea is this

Load boards need to be direct from customes . Full price and pay for load needs to be posted. No brokers.

Shippers and receivers need a rating that they earn after reviews ( appt time strictness,time getting unloaded/loaded, time to pay, etc)

Drivers need rating as well that's visible only to shippers/receivers

Place takes 12 hrs for 9 pallets? Terrible rating that would force them to pay a lot more due to them being a known time waster

Drivers habitually late for appt? Well you don't qualify to bid on load due to tanked rating ( being late, damaging freight, trashing parking lot)

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ProudChoferesClaseB@reddit

well if you cut out the middleman, whose gonna run the loadboard?

the loadboard itself is a form of middleman.

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MostOriginalNameEver@reddit

Not a broker 🫠

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Droughtg3xfc@reddit (OP)

This is a good idea, you should do something with that before someone else takes it. Best of luck 🫡

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MostOriginalNameEver@reddit

If I could I would

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SkinnyG80@reddit

Because Arabs wash their feet in the sink

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ProudChoferesClaseB@reddit

fwiw that made them cleaner than most white ppl 1,000 years ago, nowadays w/ indoor plumbing? not so much

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JOliverScott@reddit

I'm not sure I can explain all the reasons why this wouldn't work but I'll point out the fundamental flaw in your logic - the trucking industry is not as lucrative as you presume. Owner operators keep their operation lean by being their own boss and if they make $300k/yr at least half of it goes back into the truck. Adding layers of management isn't going to make each truck more profitable and all those support staff and managers who don't actually produce the revenue expect paychecks nonetheless so that's just pieces of the trucker's pie.

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W1D0WM4K3R@reddit

And owner operators still gotta pick up shit at home.

I like being able to go home for a day or two and not having to make calls trying to find out what problem I have now - and being able to sit in a different truck if mine blows a hose or something. Out of four o/o's I've known in my admittedly short two and a half years as a driver, three of them didn't make it the first half year.

Not that I break equipment, but it's just not for me lmao.

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JOliverScott@reddit

The freight market is cyclical and the last four years has been a cycle - from the sudden peak demand of COVID supply chain to the inevitable decline of the spot market - during which a bunch of ambitious O/Os bought or leased a truck and rode the wave but when it didn't last they folded. That's the reality of trucking and why a lot of us do like being company drivers even if we don't make 'the big bucks' of Independence. At the same time though what the OP proposes presumes that you can have it both ways - make O/O pay but have the support system of a company operation behind you and I just wonder how that system is expected to be funded. If the drivers pay into it then either it's basically just like being a company or else it's like a union which doesn't actually DO anything for you apart from advocating on your behalf and that already exists - the OOIDA - and they're currently so desperate for membership they're letting company drivers join!

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ProudChoferesClaseB@reddit

he's talking about a worker's co-op I think - you *can* sorta have it both ways, get the benefits of ownership and the stability of being a company driver, but it also comes with some of the downsides of both, and folks all gotta be on the same page about what they're doing and why.

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DaRealMexicanTrucker@reddit

Make a brokerage. Pay us well. We will go. Dont get greedy. Just pay us well and treat us with respect. We will go.

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ProudChoferesClaseB@reddit

yeah it'd be easier to be a righteous middleman in this industry than some kinda bottom-up revolutionary like OP is suggesting w/ his "worker owned company" idea

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DeleteriousEffects@reddit

U/droughtg3xfc this here. Do it. I'll come work for you... I do flatbed.

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UhOhAllWillyNilly@reddit

This is, quite frankly, crazy talk. 300K, huh? Sounds like you pulled that number right out of your sphincter. [There are specialized companies that make that much (and more) but those are specialists, not general freight haulers.] Try dividing your 300K by two. And even that would still be Gross and not Net. Here’s the simple truth today: trucking ain’t lucrative no more. And bear in mind that there’s a big difference between being an O/O and having your own authority (having authority is a colossal PITA and I speak from experience). And FWIW, I expect there to be about 40% less companies one year from now than there were one year ago. That’s right, I’m saying that almost half of the trucking companies from 2023 will go belly up by 2025.

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ProudChoferesClaseB@reddit

yeah a truly driver-owned company w/ democratic vote to hire and fire... how the fuck would they respond to lawsuits and regulators? I think legally they'd hafta "elect" a manager. the drug testing requirements alone require someone with authority over other workers, and if his putting a driver OOS can be vetoed then it might violate the regulations.

workers co-ops are rare, and can be really nice, but govt cares more about safety and keeping wages down.

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Thick-Background4639@reddit

You would have better luck herding cats. It’s also not that lucrative. You must be a non trucker or a newbie.

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Droughtg3xfc@reddit (OP)

I am a non-trucker. I’m just looking into the Industry to see if it’s viable for me

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ProudChoferesClaseB@reddit

https://www.usworker.coop/directory/

here's a list of worker owned companies

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Agitated-Bison-7885@reddit

Nothing wrong with buddy. I heard a company called Nussbaum claims to be an employee owned company but I have yet to get anything more than that I’m afraid.

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Dezzolve@reddit

Employee owned just means they are shareholders and may get paid dividends based on how the company is doing. Your average driver still has zero say in how the company is run.

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Pure-Anything-585@reddit

forgive me but isn't that a say how the company is run: by owning shares?

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Dezzolve@reddit

If you are a majority shareholder then sure you may have some say in how it’s run, but no your average stockholder has zero say.

You can buy Apple stock right now but good luck calling Tim Cook and telling him what new features the next iPhone should have.

As someone else mentioned the drivers get awarded shares in a retirement account that they have to be vested into (stay at the company for a certain length of time) before they can even access them. And even still they will never own a majority that way.

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Todd2ReTodded@reddit

They should make every driver a majority share holder then

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disturbedrailroader@reddit

If everyone's a majority shareholder, no one is.

Think about it dude. Majority in this case means you own more of the company than anyone else. Owning 51% of the company will get you declared a majority shareholder. Now, how can you make everyone a majority and have it actually mean something?

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Todd2ReTodded@reddit

Yeah but if everyone gets to decide the fate of the company at any times isn't that actually good?!

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Ornery_End_3495@reddit

It's actually terrible. Nothing would ever get done if everyone had a say in how it was run.

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Todd2ReTodded@reddit

Yeah but they could just charge like a million dollars a load

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Ornery_End_3495@reddit

Why didn't I think of that!

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Todd2ReTodded@reddit

When everyone is the owner of our reddit trucking company and we all get final say we will all be fabulously wealthy.

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disturbedrailroader@reddit

You're still not getting it... I understand where you're coming from. You want drivers to have a voice in the way their company is run. Totally fair and valid take. But making drivers majority shareholders is not the way to do it. You can't have more than one majority shareholder. You can have equal partners/owners though. That might be what you're trying to get across.

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Nasty_Rex@reddit

You're still not getting it...

Ironic

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Todd2ReTodded@reddit

Yeah but imagine if every driver had da importance to make all the decisions. Sorta like what if everyone was president, know what I mean? Then all the dumb shit wouldn't happen. They could just give all the drivers a million dollars. What's wrong with that??

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Agitated-Bison-7885@reddit

Yeah I assumed with how they worded it there was more to it than how good they wanted to make it sound. That’s pretty much the gist of the trucking industry I guess. Thanks for the info though.

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Thick-Background4639@reddit

I guarantee none of the employee owners make 300k per year.

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JOliverScott@reddit

Nussbaum is an ESOP company. The employees earn shares which vest in a retirement account. This is the same as PTL and TMC. An ESOP company is still structured like any other company though so if you're thinking it's 'by truckers for truckers' then you're mistaken.

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guestquest88@reddit

Just don't be the fool that starts a trucking company without having any experience in the field, nor a CDL. I've met a few of those. Good days, good days... Every single one of those went under FAST.

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Pristine-Today4611@reddit

Look into starting a driving company. It cost a lot. Big part is insurance. Then equipment and fuel. Then you got all the government fees and hoops to jump through

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Academic-Ad7504@reddit

Don’t reccomend currently doing it bust my ass for the same amount of pay as my previous job but with more responsibility and little to no compensation for it truckers say it’s because rates are low or this or that long story short it’s not all it’s cracked up to be just my 2 cents

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ProudChoferesClaseB@reddit

a workers co-operative like the college-town organic groceries or Mondragón insurance?

or an "employee owned" company like TMC?

how do you hire new drivers and fire bad drivers? majority vote? if it's truly a workers co-operative there might be some legal issues involved. if it's "employee owned" you'll have middlemen *cough* managers *cough* doing the hiring and firing.

I like the idea, but unfortunately our society is set up to incentivize billionaires and vulture capitalists to own everything, hire middlemen managers to handle us workers, and pay us as little as possible.

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easymacmac@reddit

you must be stuck in the past, late 2020-2022 during covid. It was lucrative then when it was easy getting premium rates from brokers, like taking candy away from a baby. It didnt feel right sort of, trucking isnt meant to be easy and making $$$ bank.

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Frame1111@reddit

I'm all for it if I had the capital. All you really need is one truck, one trailer, and two decent customers.

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Dangerous_Ad4451@reddit

One thing about coalescing together is that there are always slackers in a team that won't do their share of the work. Who needs such headache?

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Auquaholic@reddit

At the moment, owner operators with no one above them are struggling. They do all of their own paperwork and self dispatch. They aren't bringing in 300k annually. What would happen in your idea is like pooled tips at a restaurant. Someone who doesn't work as hard as the others would be taking profits from those who do. That will never be ok. There are companies out there, though, that only hire owner operators, and they take a small percentage from the drivers and give them access to their mc#, customers, and dispatch. That works well.

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luddite86@reddit

A company in Australia started that way back in the 70s or 80s

Can’t for the freakin’ life of me remember what they were called though. I do remember they did air freight. Really fast trucks

Some other Aussie on here might see this comment and remember who I’m talking about

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hillsdweller76@reddit

You might be thinking of the company called Kwikasair

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Auquaholic@reddit

I read that as quick ass air.

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Critical_Opening_526@reddit

As long as you don't mind my YouTube music going from My Chemical Romance, to Morgan Wallen, to Slaughter to Prevail, to Taylor Swift, to Three6 Mafia.

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Abucfan21@reddit

I can't even trust myself. How the hell am I going to trust 9 other losers like me?

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Critical_Opening_526@reddit

Can I get a cash advance at the Pilot? I'm heading to West Memphis and gonna throw some money at the dog track. (Is the dog track still open there?)

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Abucfan21@reddit

You and I would make shitty business partners but great Co-drivers!

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TwoToadsKick@reddit

What are your thoughts on this? How exactly would, let's say 10 drivers, be clearing $300K as an o/o in an employee owned company.

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Droughtg3xfc@reddit (OP)

Honestly 300k was an educated guess. Running consistent routes with no higher ups, 300k seemed like a reasonable number to me. Say if it’s running like an employee owned company, not just a group of owner operators, I think consistent high paying routes are viable.

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WillBilly_Thehic@reddit

What makes money in trucking is scale just like Walmart

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DeleteriousEffects@reddit

It's not the higher ups taking all the money... It's the truck expenses 🤣

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a116jxb@reddit

Hint: they won't.

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Mydogfartsconstantly@reddit

It would be more realistic for the employee ownership to be in stocks. There would be a few decades of hardship and if it takes off the owners(employees) would have the stock to show for it.

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WillBilly_Thehic@reddit

Because most trucking is not very profitable. Sign up for a free demo to a load board then run the numbers

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Vic_Gatsby@reddit

Cus most drivers don't know what coalesce means

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th3r3s-n0-us3r5-l3f7@reddit

Just say lump 😆

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Nasty_Rex@reddit

It's in my head

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grimnir_music@reddit

It might be dead?

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Tsndumbass@reddit

It’s when you haul coal duh

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ooglieguy0211@reddit

Or less lol

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Vic_Gatsby@reddit

I mean, I know this, but most other drivers don't!

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Todd2ReTodded@reddit

Coalesce, isnt that the fuck hole that gators got?

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meat_lord@reddit

The trucking industry isn't exactly known for their best and brightest, buddy.

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Claim_Alternative@reddit

I would love to start a trucking coop

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FreeAndRedeemed@reddit

I think you’re delusional. Where are all these profits that you think exist?

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Go2Transport@reddit

I've tried

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Outlaw11091@reddit

Because the companies you see today don't survive on their own merit.

They're heavily subsidized by the government.

In the case of the 'big 5', the five largest carriers, they're all owned by the same, very wealthy family.

They use politics and the economic weight of their large companies to control the market.

Don't mistake that as 'good business'. They bought their way into becoming mega carriers with pre-existing generational wealth.

With that many trucks, you pay less for things that are prohibitively expensive for the little guys.

Like having a real insurance policy or performing basic maintenance.

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BobdeBouwer__@reddit

Most drivers I met are the kind of people that are easily taken advantage of(by their boss).

Now companies do limit how much they take advantage of people. But if these drivers would have their own company then their customers would exploit them to the grave.

Aka one can be a good driver does not mean anything about one's skill to run a business.

Imho it's a dirty world with a lot of lies. Companies asking unreasonable things from trucking companies. Those trucking companies on paper agreeing to a lot while in real life not delivering upon those promises etc etc.

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ComeTrumpster@reddit

Have you ever done a school project in a group and been the one that makes sure the group gets an A by doing 80% of the work for the entire group? As an owner operator I would never go into business with a bunch of business partners like that. I just wanna run my own truck and do my own homework.

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Madmagician1303@reddit

The brokers are the assholes making any money left to be made. Owners put up big bucks and take the risks for profit miniscule profit margins. I made more money than I did with12. Spending my last years before retirement as a company driver. Sold the trucks and bought a sailboat. Much better

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GiantEnemaCrab@reddit

Drivers working together? That's a union. Truckers don't do that, even if it means giving up basic human rights. Also overtime? That's communism. I want to live in a truck 24/7 for less than 75k per year. No need to worry about retirement, average trucker life expectancy is 61. Just like the forefathers intended.

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VicariousPanda@reddit

Hell yeah brother

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T-Bone_Bologne@reddit

Don't give me that commie union b.s. I have my driver appreciation week and I'm good with that.

Seriously though, I do like my current company and haven't experienced and haven't experienced the usual issues that comes with trucking companies. Something tells me the owner is a decent human that is not 100 percent profit driven and want to see his employees thrive in all aspects of their lives. And since I got here I have. And they do have a great driver appreciation week.

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Droughtg3xfc@reddit (OP)

My apologies, Uncle Sam. I see the sins in my ways. This is communist thought and it must be crushed. I will instead dedicate my energy on my server job at McDonalds.

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errie_tholluxe@reddit

Mcdonald's? Fuck that we're not giving you a pay raise. Get back in your truck

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jabber1990@reddit

there is literally nothing stopping them from doing it

but employees make shitty owners

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CaptianBrasiliano@reddit

Yeah, no offense, but I'm staying the Hell away from that company... You get 6 truck drivers together and you'll have at least 37 different opinion between them. With at least 4 Yer' doin' it wrong's! Thrown in for good measure.

That company sounds like shit show at the fuck factory to me.

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W1D0WM4K3R@reddit

And the drama and the politics, my god. You're putting a dozen cooks in a four man kitchen, and they're all speaking different languages lmao.

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ResidentComplaint19@reddit

Do you know how many pairs of flip flops you’d need for an undertaking like this?

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a116jxb@reddit

At least ten pairs, but you should be able to source those from the local illegal landfill at the back of the parking lot of the local TA or Pilot next to the Walmart bags full of shit and the gallon jugs of piss.

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icy_penguins@reddit

You know how you make a million dollars trucking, you start with 2. Read what you will oit of that.

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Mnemorath@reddit

OOIDA is an association of owner operators. They are a lobbyist group.

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WhiskeyDabber67@reddit

Same reason that we don’t unionize, because stupidity and stubbornness. Also trucking isn’t all that lucrative lately, and despite what they say, being an owner operator isn’t all that glamorous. You make more money but are responsible for all the overhead, and usually work 6-7 days a week.

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Naborsx21@reddit

"with the trucking industry being so lucrative"

... Where

Where is it this amazing thing ...

I own a truck

I'll let you invest. I'll be the most ethical and friendly employer ever.

Lul

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Ok_Bug_6470@reddit

Yeh bc business works like that😂😂😂

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I_hold_stering_wheal@reddit

I think the real reason is we have seen how the others act. Just hang out at a truck stop, or rest area for a couple hours. You wouldn’t want to hire these guys or own a business with them either

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Agitated-Bison-7885@reddit

God I hate to say it but it’s true. At least half of all us truckers are straight up toddlers.

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Randorini@reddit

Lots of owner operators get together and do this already. Lots of companies that only take owner operators too and they just charge like 5% to do your paperwork and find loads, like admiral merchants is one.

I just made those numbers up but this pretty much already exists, you hair choose to work for a trucking company

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Agitated-Bison-7885@reddit

Ah I see, I didn’t know this. I had no idea, thanks for the info. I’ll have to start looking in my area.

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commacausey@reddit

If you talk to 5 different truckers about a plan you’ll get 7 different opinions on how it should be done

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Fit_Hospital2423@reddit

Well, one hing you have to overcome is private fleets. Good luck with that. There are thousands of them. They will work the broker freight because it’s quick and easy and doesn’t require a commitment other than just to that particular load. They are making and selling widgets. That’s how they make their money. They will haul broker freight literally at a loss to get to a supplier for their widget factory, or their distributorship, or whatever they do. The brokers are very familiar with them. They know that many times the private fleets will haul loads that the common carrier will reject because the rate sucks. It’s this almost invisible way that depresses the rates like crazy.

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