Tesla Has the Highest Fatal Accident Rate of All Car Brands, Study Finds

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I would assume it’s because some of them have a shit Ton of power and are being driven by people with no experience driving high powered cars who get in over their heads. Same with the corvette and 911.

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Teledildonic@reddit

Don't forget all the self driving marketing for people to put way too much trust into still unproven technology.

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PhilosophyMammoth748@reddit

if everyone enables that, the fatality will go quite low.

the problem is, they don't and trust actually weaker themselves.

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DrZedex@reddit

I feel like it's been proven all right. The proof just isn't what they'd hoped for.

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Professefinesse@reddit

Fast RWD cars and inexperience is a recipe for disaster

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xqk13@reddit

All the automated systems also makes people feel invincible

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theloop82@reddit

Especially mid engine. It’s awesome until it ain’t

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llamacohort@reddit

“Mid-engine” matters for weight distribution. EVs don’t have the rear weight bias that mid-engine vehicles have.

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NotPumba420@reddit

Doesn‘t matter if it‘s rwd. And imo EVs make it worse because it‘s so easy and effortless. You do not feel the speed

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aatops@reddit

Fr you know when you're cooking in a gas car, the sound and vibration is obvious. In electric it feels pretty much the same no matter how fast you accelearate

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New-Connection-9088@reddit

Bingo. People who buy sports cars usually have experience and respect for the car and conditions (with many notable exceptions). Tesla put granny into a 2.9 second car. It’s a great shopping and city hopper, but it can also melt your face off.

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Jslatts942@reddit

"Melt your face off", now imagine old people, its like temporary plastic surgery. 🤣

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TheAlphaCarb0n@reddit

That power should be a switch you have to flip in the settings, like the hellcat red key.

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PhilBird69@reddit

Buy default, all the power is there. You can dial it back buy putting it in "chill" mode.

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SimpleImpX@reddit

Out of curiosity I did some crude number crunching and all I can say is that the iSeeCars numbers are very dubious at best.

For example using https://www.tesladeaths.com/ that list single fatality involving Teslas and grabbing some random fleet millage millstone of 100B milles from 2023-04-16* when the total fatalities was at 315 then you get the number of 3.15 fatalies per billion miles.

*Just because it was really nice easy number, but total fleet millage numbers for other dates be found in quarterly reports and what not.

While it's (12.5%) higher than the average (2.8), it also includes fatalities from other involved vehicles, but whatever the idea is just to get a realistic ballpark figure for sanity checking. At a glance there is also doesn't appear to be any meaningful difference between Model 3 and Y.

How iSeeCars managed to get a 3.3x higher figure of 10.6 per billion miles for Model Y? No idea, but the numbers don't add up at all, be bad "proprietary algorithms" or maybe just "policy".

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ratsbane@reddit

Also the IIHS data on fatalities by brand are quite low for Tesla. https://www.iihs.org/ratings/driver-death-rates-by-make-and-model 2020 is the most recent year that I see a report for, so it's certainly possible that the iSeeCars report is correct, but I would like to see an explanation for the inconsistencies between that report and other data before accepting it.

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theloop82@reddit

Yeah the clickbait stories overstating stuff about Tesla is boring. It’s just a car, i got a brand new one for 28k OTD last year when the tax credit was 7500$. It annoys the hell out of me when I drive it, but my wife loves it and it has cost me 200$ in 11 months to charge it. That’s Corolla money, and even if the battery degrades 50% it’s still way more range than my Leaf was after 10 years

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Makhnos_Tachanka@reddit

Not only do they have no respect for the performance, and no idea how to drive, they've all drank the koolaid about how the tesla is the fastest, best handling car in the world. with magic traction control or whatever and a low center of gravity which means you can't crash it. And then you put them in this car which is numb as my ass after i scroll reddit for an hour on the toilet, and the inevitable happens.

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theloop82@reddit

I have a cheap model 3 RWD, it handles fine, it’s fun on mountain roads, but people who get these things want transportation appliances and they have 500hp and like others have said they don’t know shit about cars and have bald tires

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Makhnos_Tachanka@reddit

Yeah, I mean, it's "fine," but my point is it just isn't going to teach a novice used to a clapped out altima how to handle a performance car on the edge. It's not that communicative or intuitive. Cars used to handle well enough to teach their driver like that. Now they just grip until they don't, and the first you know about it, you're up a tree. And at the end of the day,

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MexicanGuey@reddit

I bet lack of tire maintenance is a big contributor too. EVs are heavy and have fast acceleration. These 2 combinations wear out tires fast and need to do tire rotation every 5k miles. On my first model 3 in 2018, I replaced my OEM at 25k miles which is crazy since o my other cars i can easly go over 50k before I need to replace them. I learned to ease off the pedal to make them last longer.

I heard some tesla owners replace theirs every 10k.

Bald tires, RWD, under 5 seconds of acceleration = bad time.

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theloop82@reddit

I have a model 3 rwd, the slow one (6s) - I am going to put some long wearing nice all seasons on it and eat the decrease in mileage. I’ve had eco tires on a Prius and they are a greenwashing racket.

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Leelze@reddit

Walk through a parking lot while looking at tires and you'll see some scary shit.

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TurdFerguson4@reddit

I wonder if there's a company or at least a template for making cards you could put under people's wipers that says 'FYI, your tires are dangerous, get them checked/replaced'.

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n0ah_fense@reddit

Shit ton of power plus they are heavy and have longer braking distances, poor handing, and slide around on wet and icy roads

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Ok-Parfait8675@reddit

I'd guess the same. The only thing that makes this post feel gross is that it seems like a lot of people are happy of the Tesla fatalities so they can dunk on Elon. Yikes.

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egowritingcheques@reddit

Yes I would say there's some truth there. But I'd also suggest the driver attitude for Tesla and Corvette/911 are almost completely opposite in that Tesla drivers are daily drivers who are barely paying attention sometimes due to automated features, while 911/corvette are paying attention but out for a risky blast of a drive. Both end up in accidents for different reasons.

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Saskatchewon@reddit

A Model 3 Long Range has a faster 0-60 than a Ford Mustang GT. Combine that with people who might not be used to performance driving (the Model 3 isn't really marketed as a sports car) and have been told that the car will basically avoid accidents for you, and you're asking for trouble.

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moops__@reddit

Cars go as fast people want them too. I don't buy this reason. I don't think I've seen a single Tesla car being driven fast here in the UK. The owners seem least interested in that aspect of the car.

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tpolakov1@reddit

It's the acceleration. Anyone that hasn't got their driving license in the last couple of years in an affluent area has never been taught how to drive cars that have immediate torque higher than max torque any ICE car they've ever touched.

People don't drive fast, they drive erratically and without foresight, because they don't (and won't) understand the dynamics of their ~~appliance~~car. And that's much, much more dangerous.

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Dry-Revenue2470@reddit

It’s the speed and an acceleration of these cars. It’s too much for the average driver who had worse situational awareness and reaction time than they think they do. Tech Distraction is a major contributing factor, screens and the internet in cars is a fucking dumb idea.

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zeek215@reddit

7 of the top 10 cars listed do not have good speed or acceleration. So why would it be speed and acceleration when that doesn’t apply to the majority of the list?

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moonRekt@reddit

Not at all surprised, over the many years sure I’ve seen a few Bimmers, Infinitis, Chargers and Altima’s etc drive with no regard to others safety. But since Teslas became popular, holy shit. Inexperienced drivers often driving their first fast car ever. At least with ICE if you start building cars that go 3 seconds 0-60 it’s likely nowhere near your first fast car you’ve owned many fast cars by then and have quite a bit of seat time. Any idiot can go buy a cheap affordable Tesla that goes 0-60 in 3 seconds. Especially an impulsive high schooler.

Also surprised it just focuses on occupant safety. EVs are fun especially for beating yellow lights but also extremely dangerous to pedestrians in crosswalks. When the light is turning yellow/red, as a pedestrian in a crosswalk if a charger is about to run a red light, at least you hear the engine rev up and get a warning. A Tesla speeds up from 40-70mph with no audible warning they just come blazing through the crosswalk you better have your eyes open. Just a month or two I swear a new Model 3 “Plaid” go speeding through a crosswalk just 5’ in front of a dad pushing a stroller through a crosswalk and that’s only the most recent I’ve seen many instances like that. Plain irresponsible drivers

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zeek215@reddit

At least with ICE if you start building cars that go 3 seconds 0-60 it’s likely nowhere near your first fast car you’ve owned many fast cars by then and have quite a bit of seat time and know the importance of stopping distance.

How can you say this with a straight face when the Corvette and 911 are also on the list?

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RiftHunter4@reddit

So, why are Teslas — and many other ostensibly safe cars on the list — involved in so many fatal crashes? “The models on this list likely reflect a combination of driver behavior and driving conditions, leading to increased crashes and fatalities,” iSeeCars executive analyst Karl Brauer said in the report. “A focused, alert driver, traveling at a legal or prudent speed, without being under the influence of drugs or alcohol, is the most likely to arrive safely regardless of the vehicle they’re driving.”

They finally said it. If you drive a Tesla, you just suck at driving. It's fact now. Maybe ask someone with a Dodge Challenger or Nissan Altima to teach you how to drive properly because they aren't on the list. /s

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Simon_787@reddit

Probably also the fact that Tesla doesn't really make any slow cars and they gained their reputation through their incredible acceleration.

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band-of-horses@reddit

That's one thing that concerns me about the Cybertruck. A 7,000 lb vehicle that can hit 60 mph in less than 3 seconds, with steer by wire that has a slight delay. That just seems like a recipe for disaster.

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Hugh-Jass24@reddit

The steer by wire delay is only apparent when the vehicle is parked, there is no delay while driving. This has been debunked.

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pwillia7@reddit

no noticeable delay or no delay?

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ltdan84@reddit

The person concerned about the “delay” is probably referring to the amount of time it takes the wheels to go from lock to lock that doesn’t match the rate at which you turn the yoke steering “wheel”, but not thinking about the fact that with a traditional steering wheel it takes the same amount of time to turn the wheels lock to lock, you just don’t notice it because you are turning the wheels lock the entire time and the wheels appear to be turning at the same rate you are spinning the wheel. If the wheels on a cybertruck turned at the same rate you turn the yoke, it would be like driving a Walmart RC car down the road and basically impossible to go in a straight line.

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p_Cu@reddit

Then why isn’t there some sort of steering feedback mechanism to slow the movement of the steering wheel and prevent the steering wheel and wheels from getting out of sync

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gimpwiz@reddit

Mechanical systems have a delay too, if we want to get into semantics. The question always is how much.

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TurboFucked@reddit

Seriously. Anyone whose ever driven a Wrangler (especially on larger tires) knows what it's like to drive a vehicle with steering response that can only be described as "maybe".

Laggy, vague steering doesn't make a vehicle dangerous to drive, just fatiguing and annoying. It's not like anyone would successfully perform an emergency lane change in one anyway.

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moocowsia@reddit

In all fairness, people say Jeeps are shit too.

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pwillia7@reddit

Engineering isn't semantic friend. Everything will fail the question is when and under what conditions

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waverider85@reddit

Looking at videos, the "delay" is less the steering system being unresponsive more the wheel letting you go full lock instantly while the steering system has to fight static friction for 35 or whatever degrees. Once you're moving that shouldn't be a problem.

That said, I'd still like the FFB to keep the wheel in step with the tires.

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Makhnos_Tachanka@reddit

Yeah it has "delay" in the sense that it can't go lock to lock in a quarter second. Of course, you can't do that in any other car, anyway.

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Hugh-Jass24@reddit

Are you going to argue over fractions of a millisecond?

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LamentableFool@reddit

50ms delay is quite noticeable.

If you ever played any fast paced videogames and used some of the early smart TVs with and without game mode, you'd know how disorienting that miniscule delay would be.

If you ever tried speaking into a microphone and had the unfortunate situation of hearing yourself with a delay you'd know how difficult it is to get more than a few words in.

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Hugh-Jass24@reddit

Its nitpicking. Bring that logic to a boomer driving a buick, what's their reaction time? Both are legal.

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pwillia7@reddit

operator ability and regulations/safety on machines are different things ...

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Hugh-Jass24@reddit

Like I said before, both are legal tolerances.

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Deliverah@reddit

Delay on a boomer slow buick is not the same as delay on a 3s 0-60mph car; one leads to a fender bender, the other leads to head on fatal collision. I’d never drive a CT since I actually value precision and safety.

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Hugh-Jass24@reddit

The rear wheel steering compensates for that precision. Like I said before. There is no delay while driving.

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pwillia7@reddit

I just asked a clarifying question -- I really don't have a preconceived notion on steer by wire

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Hugh-Jass24@reddit

Sorry. Its just that the hivemind will tell you its takes days to turn in a cybertruck. There is no noticeable delay.

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poopoomergency4@reddit

when it's up from 0ms on a conventional steering rack, on a 7000lb truck that can go much faster than it needs to, yes

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origami_airplane@reddit

but but elon bad!

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NinjaLion@reddit

Absolutely, dont forget the non-existent visibility. good thing theyve only sold like 6 of them.

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Hugh-Jass24@reddit

6 of them lol, its the #1 selling vehicle above $100K.

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Bumpi_Boi@reddit

3rd best selling EV this year.

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band-of-horses@reddit

That's like being the third best team in the minor leagues...

The Tesla model 3 competing with gas powered cars is impressive. The cybertruck selling like 5% as many as an F-150 is much less so. Now that 4 years of pent up demand and millions of reservations have been taken care of we'll see what true demand there is, I'll be curious how it plays out.

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Hugh-Jass24@reddit

You aren't comparing apples to apples here. The Cybertruck just came out, the F150 had years to earn its reputation and become a best seller. You would have to use the F150 lighting as a proper comparison and the Cybertruck is outselling it.

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band-of-horses@reddit

I'm definitely not comparing apples to apples. I'm pointing out that there are sales as a truck are not impressive. The EV truck market is very small so dominating that is not a huge feat. Again if it can start being competitive with actual trucks like the model 3 and model y are with gas powered cars, I would find that impressive. But I think there are far too many limitations with electric trucks at the moment and I feel like the market is very small.

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Hugh-Jass24@reddit

I agree. Maybe Tesla will make a conventional pickup soon so the average consumer can actually obtain it. Im pretty sure the Cybertruck's interest will wane.

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band-of-horses@reddit

Design wise it might help, but I think that Rivian and Ford have demonstrated it's not just the design that's an issue.

A vehicle that size is just way less efficient, the cybertruck is like half as efficient as a model Y, so it needs twice the battery to go the same range. There's no way to make that vehicle as cheap as a model Y, plus adding on to that the limitations when it comes to towing and ability to recharge for remote camping and offroading, and they are basically useful only as city vehicles. But if you need a city vehicle, why buy the option that is half as efficient and costs twice as much?

At least with our current tech I feel like plug in hybrid or range extender trucks are the best path forward. We're going to need some serious improvement in battery energy density and cost to make larger trucks affordable. Though a honda ridgeline equivalent built on the model y platform might be a good option for city dwellers who want the occasional utility.

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Hugh-Jass24@reddit

Reddit echo chamber spreading misinformation again. 6 of them lol I think i saw 6 of them in traffic on my way home from work.

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redpillscope4welfare@reddit

There are less than 12k cybershits on the road, hilarious given they've had... how many recalls? Like 30-40+? Lmao

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Bumpi_Boi@reddit

This is a month old and has 30k delivered. They make 6k a month if not more.

https://cleantechnica.com/2024/10/15/tesla-cybertruck-sales-more-than-doubled-in-q3-became-3rd-best-selling-ev-in-usa/

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Hugh-Jass24@reddit

Still more than 6. Recalls are normal for all vehicles especially for a first of its kind vehicle and most of them were fixed via software updates LMAO.

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tnstaafsb@reddit

I see 6 of them some days just on my drive to work. They're all over the place here. If you live anywhere with a lot of tech jobs, you'll see a lot of cybertrucks.

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JawKeepsLawking@reddit

There is no delay.

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HedonisticFrog@reddit

Plus the people who are attracted to large obnoxious vehicles tend to drive aggressively as well. They're the ones who actively go out of their way to hit animals on the road after all.

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Ecsta@reddit

More a danger for whoever/whatever it hits.

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llamacohort@reddit

Also acceleration for the price. With some incentives, I got a hatchback/crossover for under $50k that goes 0-60 in under 4 seconds. The new model 3 is a good bit faster for a little more. If someone wants a non-EV crossover or SUV that is that fast, they have to pay well into the 6 figures.

Tesla makes fast acceleration very accessible.

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notataco007@reddit

My coworker got a Tesla recently and took me for a ride. She put her foot down and took a corner but clearly does not understand how much to trust those tires with that weight and high gs

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llamacohort@reddit

Yeah, the model Y performance comes with pilot sport 4 s tires and they are great. But the car is slightly larger than a civic and that might make people think it can corner similarly. The MYP is like 1,200 pounds heavier than a civic, so it’s closer to a sport suspension on a truck than a sports car.

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CaptainTreeman42@reddit

It's not the acceleration that kills you. Suddenly becoming stationary, thats what gets ya. And in a tesla plaid thats supposed to be hard with them standard brakes

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UncleBensRacistRice@reddit

And they gained a reputation for acceleration

With the way most of their users drive, i had completely forgotten they were fast

3/5 times im stuck behind some idiot doing 30 under the flow of traffic at the end of an on-ramp, its a tesla

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vkick@reddit

I totally agree. There are a lot of Tesla drivers in my area, and most of them don’t use turn signals. And when they stop at a stop light, they leave a gap large enough to fit a mini cooper.

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SamsonFox2@reddit

And when they stop at a stop light, they leave a gap large enough to fit a mini cooper.

Per Young Drivers of Canada, that's actually a safe driving practice.

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vkick@reddit

yeah. that make sense. just in case the person behind you hits you, you dont hit the person in front.

i think these drivers dont know the width and length of their cars. when parking at those perpendicular spaces, they leave so much between the wheel stopper and themselves, that their front bumper is usually on the edge of traffic.

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PaulTheMerc@reddit

I hate pulling in(cr-v) the engine looks bigger than it is + safaty coushion. I've gotten out only to get back in and pull forward some more. Any tips?

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vkick@reddit

Hmmm…for perpendicular spaces, there is usually have a wheel stopper. If none available, If you have a reverse camera it helps to always reverse in. Otherwise, you can observe how your neighbor is parked. You can match up your side mirrors with your neighbor. Then pay attention to your front hood line. Come out of your car to see how much space you have left. At home, you can always look for exterior cues: a bike that hangs in your garage.

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gumol@reddit

If you drive a Tesla, you just suck at driving.

Same goes for Porsche 911

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hi_im_bored13@reddit

And corvettes, and the crv hybrid

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klowny@reddit

Considering the Corvette and 911 don't usually get used for commuting, it makes sense for it to have higher fatality per mile when more of the miles are driven enthusiastically.

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AgentScreech@reddit

Only 3k miles on mine.

But yeah I don't really plan on driving it much in the next 6 months or so.

So math might check out

The insurance is quite cheap though

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not_rdburman@reddit

150k miles on my 07 Turbo. Shit is a absolute monster but insurance kills me

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AgentScreech@reddit

Are Porsches that really expensive to insure?

For whatever reason, my nearly $200,000 Corvette is only a hundred bucks a month to insure.

My 500 horsepower GT350 and my 2021 mach-e are also about the same.

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not_rdburman@reddit

Maybe it's just Texas, or that I'm a 27 yo, but it's not cheap for me 😂

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Neat-Fig-3039@reddit

Age for sure but Texas is also crap for insurance, worse in Houston when I was there compared to NYC or even Miami!!

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Ownfir@reddit

Definitely your age

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jasonfromearth1981@reddit

Dumb people get into fast cars when they have the money to do so without ever learning how to actually drive the damn thing.

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runsanditspaidfor@reddit

CRV Hybrid is really the one that makes zero sense to me

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Vanzmelo@reddit

Have you seen CRV drivers? The slowest, spatially unaware, and erratic drivers out there along with RAV4s

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Previous_Composer934@reddit

it's the toyota drivers and small pickup drivers that are some of the laziest drivers

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Reapercore@reddit

I find it’s Honda and Nissan drivers in the uk.

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mrsneil948@reddit

I noticed most Toyota drivers also seem to drive slow (by that I mean under the speed limit, which this day and age can be dangerous too). They also seem to hesitate to turn, etc.

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hyfs23@reddit

true. CRV and RAV4 are the tru NPC cars

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UranicStorm@reddit

I'm apparently beating the stereotype on 2 fronts by being a RAV4 and BMW driver lol. I use my signals, I never go more than 5 over the limit and stay in the rightmost lane at all times unless passing. I also maintain a larger following distance than the average Virginia driver and have never had to slam my brakes as a result.

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onyourrite@reddit

H-Hey, I’m only erratic when I have a girl in the passenger’s seat I wanna impress!

/j

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Hirsuitism@reddit

Kia Soul drivers would like a word

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Cocasaurus@reddit

Hey, watch what you're saying! We're not erratic! There's predictability in being slow and unaware.

/s

(my fiancée drives from time to time. I apologize for her sometimes poor driving skills)

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airfryerfuntime@reddit

Teenagers.

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runsanditspaidfor@reddit

I think it’s the opposite - elderly people who are inattentive drivers and more likely to die in an accident due to poor overall health.

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Phosphorus444@reddit

I think that's why Buick 3rd.

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mrsneil948@reddit

Excellent point. My parents bought Buick when I was a kid and now do in their 80s... Only folks from that generation still buy them. I grew up thinking of them as a parent/family car so never even consider Buick for my own purchase. One day Apple products will be the same, lol. that's why I buy Android now.

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SUPERCAT64music@reddit

LMFAOOO

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CrestronwithTechron@reddit

People who should be paying the most for insurance should be those under 25 and those over 70-75. The only reason the insurance companies don’t is because they know AARP and retired people have money and would lawyer up. The 20 something’s don’t and are told to suck it up.

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dontdoxmebro@reddit

Yeah, the CRV Hybrid has replaced Buick as the standard car for dangerously oblivious elderly drivers in my area.

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ZannX@reddit

Oh, then same applies to 911 and Corvette. Got it.

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airfryerfuntime@reddit

Statistics say otherwise.

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runsanditspaidfor@reddit

What statistics?

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airfryerfuntime@reddit

The statistics that drive insurance costs. Young drivers are at a far greater risk of being involved in a major traffic accident than literally any other demographic. You can Google it for yourself, because I shouldn't even have to by this point.

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SNRatio@reddit

Only because they drive more than the elderly. Per mile, 80+ year olds are (or at least were, data is a few years old) similar:

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Rates-of-passenger-vehicle-driver-involvements-in-fatal-crashes-per-100-million-miles_fig7_272200130

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runsanditspaidfor@reddit

Seems like there’s some nuance to the statistics. I see a lot of very elderly people driving CR-Vs, I wonder if that could explain the higher rates of fatal accidents?

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runsanditspaidfor@reddit

Thanks for letting me know. Have a wonderful weekend.

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dxearner@reddit

https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/overview/age-of-driver/

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SNRatio@reddit

Needs to be divided by number of miles driven by each group. https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Rates-of-passenger-vehicle-driver-involvements-in-fatal-crashes-per-100-million-miles_fig7_272200130

age 75+ were similar to teenagers when it comes to fatal accident involvement

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runsanditspaidfor@reddit

Cool

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Saskatchewon@reddit

Nah, teenagers aren't buying a 2-6 year old CRV Hybrid. It's near the top of the list for the same reason that two Buicks are. And that reason is that it's a very popular vehicle for the elderly.

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Quiet-Reserve3362@reddit

Can concur. My 74 yo grandpa is a long time CRV driver as are a good few of his friends. Recently got into a bad car accident

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Ohshitwadddup@reddit

Seniors need annual driving evaluations but it seems like such a taboo suggestion whenever it gets discussed.

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Sorge74@reddit

Once you get to that age, your focus and reflexes start to deteriorate

I'd put a drunk functional alcoholic in a car vs a 75 year old anyday.

It's insane we don't make old people take test

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HiDDENk00l@reddit

I'd do neither, but these hypothetical either-ors are fun :)

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willpc14@reddit

A two-to-six year old CR-V Hybrid is going to be too expensive to be a popular vehicle with teen drivers.

Yes, but I bet it's popular with their parents.

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AKADriver@reddit

Not any more than any other small crossover. If anything parents tend to drive larger crossovers like the Pilot.

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watduhdamhell@reddit

Who tf is buying their kids crv hybrids? Are there really that many wealthy people around? Lol

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TheRealM67v@reddit

It makes sense to me. CR-V drivers, at least in my area, are some of the most dimwitted driven vehicles on the road that I regularly have the displeasure of coming across

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TheManFromUnkill@reddit

So that answers why I pay 300 a month in insurance … I have a Tesla and a CRV Hybrid.

I can tell you that the CRV hybrid has an issue with adaptive cruise , it doesn’t detect a stationary obstacle soon enough

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A_Puddle@reddit

Stop letting the car drive itself, either drive your car or get a human to drive it for you. FFS it's like we took the 'Jesus take the Wheel' meme and turned it into real life.

20 years down the road (pun intended) is looking terrifying with the general brainrot brought on by smartphones and short-form content like Tik-Tok, the kids can't read (more than a paragraph at a time) and nobody trusts anything, anybody, or any institution.

Idiocracy is looking like Chuck-e-Cheeses when we're really headed toward a late Victorian child labor factory but with no one in charge.

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alpha333omega@reddit

Honda’s demographic is notorious one of the worst in the industry, ask me how I know

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railbeast@reddit

I've never met a good CRV driver. Never. The difference between this and the 911 is that I have a much larger sample size for the CRV.

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ProbablySatirical@reddit

Old people/NPC types or teens driving the hand me down vehicles. CRVs are typically driven by the most oblivious people on the road imo

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kimbabs@reddit

My guess is statistical anomaly tbh given high production vs low miles driven. IIHS data doesn’t support a substantially higher death rate.

We can assume driving behavior but honestly that could done better by actually combing through the report data as IIRC crashes can be categorized by causes.

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f8Negative@reddit

Small people driving cars too big for them. A lot of people unaware of their surroundings and where their car ends.

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I_like_cake_7@reddit

It makes perfect sense to me. CR-V drivers are consistently some of absolute worst drivers I see on the road.

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Bigbadbrindledog@reddit

It feels like a sample size problem, it should just be included in the non hybrid crv.

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Few_Highlight1114@reddit

Are vettes high on the fatal list?

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HeftyNugs@reddit

2nd on the list

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Mimical@reddit

Damn, gunna go buy that special someone a venue now. Thanks.

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HeftyNugs@reddit

😂

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Weird_Tower76@reddit

Oh great. Surely that is highly skewed because of other generations of Corvettes right? Or am I just coping XD

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gimpwiz@reddit

The corvette is perfectly fine, it's people who hoon them that get into trouble. Or idiots driving on the snow in summer tires. But mostly the former.

Every month or so someone posts "hey I'm 18 and I'm thinking of getting a C6 but my parents aren't into it?" and I respond with: yeah they're absolutely right, they don't want to have to identify you after you wrap all the way around a pole.

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biggsteve81@reddit

No. It only includes model years 2018-2022.

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Weird_Tower76@reddit

Oh good thing mines a 24

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agray20938@reddit

I think it's more because the study removed low-volume vehicles, and is based on accidents per mile. Both of those mean it leaves corvettes and 911s as the most popular for people that fit in the "I have multiple cars, so I only drive this occasionally when I want to go fast" category.

Obviously there are other fast cars that would theoretically be included, though sports sedans or something like a challenger are also probably more likely to be someone's daily driver (meaning lots of lower risk miles).

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hi_im_bored13@reddit

vette #2, crv #4, model y #5

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RocketGuy3@reddit

Corvette drivers are just slow. I don't think I've seen many that are very bad.

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shelvesofeight@reddit

All CRVs and RAV4s.

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WestonP@reddit

corvettes

Old men going 10 mph under the limit in the left lane aren't causing a lot of crashes, though

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dat_tae@reddit

Oy!

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Rattle_Can@reddit

annecdotally, out of all the insane car crash videos I've seen that made me go "there's no way the driver survived that", but the driver somehow did according to news reports that followed, the #1 was porsche 911s

i dont know if they have really good crash safety baked into the design, or if its just pure coincidence

but man some of those crashes were gnarly

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MrBluSky717@reddit

Speaking of gnarly crashes, I remember reading a story in the news paper as a kid about someone crashing a Ferrari Enzo while street racing in California. Split the car IN HALF. He somehow survived, and i forgot if the passenger survived or not. Used that very newspaper page for an elementary school project. Fun fact: Ferrari actually got the car back into their possession(it had been stolen from Europe and shipped to Cali somehow...) and they rebuilt the car and painted it black instead of the original red. Was re-certified by them after that. Interesting story if you ever got time to deep-dive.

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Pliskin_Hayter@reddit

A lot of mid engine supercars are actually designed to split in half like that in a big crash. I don't know the science behind it but its for safety,

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MrBluSky717@reddit

It's a technology that carried over from F1 or something, I believe. The parts that break off take the brunt of the damage, while the monocoque stays strong and protects the occupants from most harm. It's why you'll see the nose of F1 and Indy cars break away.

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gimpwiz@reddit

Mr Bean split his F1 in half too, pretty sure it made the value go up though

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_N4AP@reddit

I do think it's engineering, honestly. I've seen some Porsche wrecks on the Nürburgring that absolutely should have been fatal, but the driver walks with scrapes.

Porsche has a bit of an incentive to make sure the people who purchase their cars (especially the high value ones) live to buy another when they wrap their shit around a bridge abutment showing off for teens in a Civic.

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Wonderful_Device312@reddit

There's no on coming or intersecting traffic on the ring. They also have barriers and other things that help deflect the collision in the general direction of travel rather than bringing things to a stop. The end result is that the cars will get absolutely smashed up but the passengers will probably walk away with bruises.

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Infrastructure312@reddit

People unfortunately still die at the ring every year.

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poopoomergency4@reddit

also a million flagging stations, so following traffic can be stopped & aid sent very quickly after an accident. never any substantial risk of a massive pile-up.

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Wonderful_Device312@reddit

Dramatic car accidents aren't necessarily more dangerous. All the stuff flying everywhere and the car smashing through things, tumbling, being crumpled everywhere etc is just dissipating energy over a longer period of time.

The collisions which have one really hard impact and then the cars come to a stop are really bad from a physics standpoint.

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A_Puddle@reddit

It's not the acceleration that kills you, it's the sudden stop.

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captainpistoff@reddit

Paul Walker would like a word.

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Geofferz@reddit

Eh? I've never seen a porsche driver even speeding in the uk. I'm aware of it as I overtake their gts at 60mph. They are very docile drivers?

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gumol@reddit

more fatalities than any Tesla, according to this study

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Geofferz@reddit

Ah yeah I did read the study in the end

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PlatinumElement@reddit

Woo! I suck at driving x3.

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santalopian@reddit

That's wrong. I'm sure there's a larger portion of Porsche drivers that have actually had training compared to general car owners.

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gumol@reddit

Porsche had more fatalities than Teslas, according to this study

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biggsteve81@reddit

Only the 911 had more fatalities per mile than Teslas. The brand as a whole had a much lower fatality rate than Tesla.

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poopoomergency4@reddit

more fatalities per mile. which makes sense, half of porsche's product line are ultra-expensive garage queens. whereas tesla only mass-produces daily drivers.

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DiffusedSky24@reddit

Or anything Stellantis or Nissan

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Evergreen1055@reddit

Pretty sure that has to do with (a) speed and (b) the weight of the rear-mounted engine crushing people in head-on collisions.

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railbeast@reddit

(b) the weight of the rear-mounted engine crushing people in head-on collisions

Really shouldn't be happening, same as the front engines, the mid/rear engined cars should be able to drop their engine when crashed.

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Claudzilla@reddit

You mean all those other drivers weren’t saying I was number 1?

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TheOtherMatt@reddit

I feel targeted.

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thatgymdude@reddit

The truth r/cars needs to hear but doesn't want to, the worst drivers I have ever seen on the road were in 911s.

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racerx150@reddit

Prius, Subaru Forrester, and Honda Pilot have some of the worst drivers

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shmeeshmaa@reddit

Phew I drive a cayman so guess I’m in the clear.

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vinceod@reddit

Add any lifted truck in there too. F-250 and silverados

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gumol@reddit

not according to this data

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democracywon2024@reddit

Porsche 911s are actually just dangerous cars.

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cpxchewy@reddit

Can confirm. I suck at driving. I also own EVs so I doubly suck at driving.

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gulfbleu@reddit

I feel personally attacked.

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kryx@reddit

Interesting garage, friend.

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corn_sugar_isotope@reddit

well tbf, you probably suck at driving a 911, just like most the folks that do not have one.

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thegooddoctorben@reddit

Not only that, they're drunk, high on drugs, and don't know how to read (a speedometer).

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shloppin@reddit

I giggled at the casual nitpick

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davidscheiber28@reddit

The crazy thing is that my experience driving in my local area actually has supported this. About a couple weeks ago I had a Tesla driver cut me off and slam on his brakes had a yellow light and then floor it through the light when it switched to red, no idea what I did to piss him off if it was intentional. A few days later I had to slam on my brakes because a Tesla driver realized they were in the wrong lane and decided to slam on their brakes and drive across a painted median to get to the lane they wanted, I actually locked up my brakes on that one. For some reason I also see a lot of Tesla drivers hitting their brakes at inappropriate times on the highway.

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TheRealPlumbus@reddit

Tesla’s brake just by letting off the gas. They don’t coast. Not sure if there’s a way to disable that or not but that’s probably why you see erratic braking

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Hipstershy@reddit

There is a way to drastically reduce it, but not disable it completely. Regenerative braking is a key feature in electric cars and having it is overall a massive good-- but the way it is implemented in several types of EVs, including Teslas, can be tricky to figure out if you weren't warned about it or have previous experience with a manual transmission (it feels very similar to downshifting while slowing down). The good news is that on Teslas this kicks the brake lights on pretty quickly, so possibly some instances above of Tesla drivers "hitting their brakes randomly" are just the brake lights showing since regenerative braking is just barely getting engaged. The bad news is that not every EV manufacturer handles it the same way-- Technology Connections had a video about his Hyundai EV being able to slow down pretty sharply without engaging the brake lights

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SamsonFox2@reddit

There is a way to drastically reduce it, but not disable it completely.

No, there is a way to disable completely

Regenerative braking is a key feature in electric cars and having it is overall a massive good-- but the way it is implemented in several types of EVs, including Teslas, can be tricky to figure out if you weren't warned about it or have previous experience with a manual transmission (it feels very similar to downshifting while slowing down).

Key word here: several types of EV's. Not all of them.

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Journeyman42@reddit

Technology Connections had a video about his Hyundai EV being able to slow down pretty sharply without engaging the brake lights

smooth jazz outro

[-]

Hipstershy@reddit

I don't know how I slept on him for so long but I've been watching his videos non-stop recently. His water heater video alone is crazy

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Journeyman42@reddit

He's been my go-to binge videos when I want a break from politics/current news.

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GodLovesUglySong@reddit

Even just hitting the brakes "pretty quicky" isn't good enough.

Don't know how many times I've see a dumbass Tesla driver just riding their brakes "pretty quickly" with a shit ton of room in front of them. Not to mention, this causes everyone behind them to hit their brakes too.

I understand that it's for regenerative breaking, but to most people, it just looks like someone that doesn't know how to drive.

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MisterSquidInc@reddit

I've driven a couple and absolutely hated this. If you want to coast you've got to keep just enough pressure on the gas pedal to stop it going into regen - totally counter intuitive

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BMWbill@reddit

As someone who has both a Tesla and a gas car, not only do you get used to one pedal driving, but it makes gas cars feel unsafe and counterintuitive to drive. With my Tesla I never have to move my foot from pedal to pedal. One pedal sting is just so much better, but there is a one day learning curve.

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to11mtm@reddit

As someone with a Hybrid and a Manual, Every drive between those and an automatic/cvt make me realize that:

Manual is the most correct, but indeed the most manual. There is something nice about -knowing- the engine is not giving any power to anything

HEVs aren't bad for overall learning curve, especially if you take 5 minutes to understand the way your drive settings work. With my Maverick, Sport is light on the auto-regen, ECO mode is aggressive (but TBH still fine for day to day driving!) and they do behave a little different under various speeds, buuuut you still gotta use the brake and TBH the braking 'challenge' satisfies my ADHD almost as well as driving a manual does.

I'd rather a 1 speed eCVT than most automatics I've driven/ridden in over recent years.

If you want to coast you've got to keep just enough pressure on the gas pedal to stop it going into regen - totally counter intuitive

I actually literally -do- feel this in my maverick however. An 8Hr plus drive in the WRX usually leads to some sore legs, the same type of drive in the Maverick tends to result in very SPECIFIC pains in my foot as I'm trying to keep very specific angles to maximize mileage and minimze braking/etc. I especially noticed it as I'm getting the WRX fixed up over the last month and it's been painfully obvious.

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BMWbill@reddit

Well, any drive more than an hour in my Tesla Ans I’m completely using autopilot. I can put my feet anywhere and also look around and enjoy the scenery. I arrive at my mother inlaw’s house after 10 hours feeling perfectly relaxed. But if I take the Tacoma which is old-school with no adaptive cruise control, I arrive completely exhausted

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MrBluSky717@reddit

Something doesn't sit right with me on that... I feel moving your foot around(as gas cars make you do) is actually a WAY safer practice. Imagine you've gotten so used to 1-pedal driving, and then the situation comes where you need to SLAM the brakes, but your not used to floating above the brake pedal anymore. I'm not saying it's gonna happen, but it's always a possibility... For me, city driving is a bit of gas to get up to speed, and most of the time hovering over the brake pedal just in case someone decided to be a stunod, which is very likely around here. In that time, when the gap widens, a little more gas, then back over the brake pedal. I trust my ability to press the brakes better than to switch from gas to brake. That slight delay from gas to brake is crucial. I will say, the 1-pedal system seems nice for roads that aren't busy at all, but in most urban environments, especially with stunods all around who cut you off all the time, 2-pedal driving seems essential.

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well_versed@reddit

The delay from gas to brake doesn't exist because the car starts braking immediately when your foot is taken off of the accelerator. There would be less of a delay in brake pressure being applied compared to an ICE car.

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MrBluSky717@reddit

Since I've never driven a Tesla, what are the parameters of the brake activating? For instance, do you have to be within a certain speed range for it to activate, or will it always do it, even at highway speeds? Just curious.

VERY unlikely, but I hope this doesn't influence the future to a point where car makers say "why have a brake pedal when the car does it for you?" Given car trends these days, I worry.

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JtheNinja@reddit

The friction brakes don't activate unless you hit the actual brake pedal, only regen activates from lifting off the accelerator. Don't think of it as brakes auto-engaging, think of it as a throttle that goes negative. Instead of the pedal going from 0% throttle to +100%, it goes from +100% to -100%, and at negative values the motor steals kinetic energy from the vehicle and puts it back in the battery. That's why you have to carefully hold the pedal part way down to coast, because you need to keep the throttle at the midpoint where the motor is neither propelling the car or harvesting kinetic energy from it.

Engine braking in an ICE doesn't work the same way so there isn't an exact analogue for regen and 1-pedal driving, although to the driver it feels a lot like engine braking an ICE in low gear.

Btw, this sort of throttle "UI" is pretty common on electrified vehicles, going back to the original 1900s EVs. You'll also find this on some electrified trains and trolleys as well.

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well_versed@reddit

No parameters that I am aware of, it will always brake until it comes to a stop if there is no pressure on the accelerator, and it will start lightly applying the brakes as you start lifting off of the accelerator.

The dedicated brake pedal is still needed for times when you need to quickly brake or have misjudged the stopping distance, but the regenerative brakes will have already started engaging in the time it takes to switch pedals.

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MrBluSky717@reddit

Seems like a similar principle to a "dead-man pedal", which does seem nice in certain situations. My only other question I guess would be about how coasting works. Is there a zone in the pedals travel where it applies neither throttle or brake? Saw another comment hint towards something like this, but didn't know for sure.

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well_versed@reddit

Yep, that sounds about right. You find the zone for the speed you want to go and keep it there. It's all a lot more intuitive than it sounds written out and you get the hang of it fairly quickly. The biggest learning curve is getting your stopping distance right for stoplights, but you figure that out soon enough as well.

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MrBluSky717@reddit

I feel like I'd need a "CAUTION: First-Time Tesla Driver" sign if I ever drove one... I'm surprised this isn't already a product lol XD

Jokes aside, thanks for being so informative. This is very useful information if I'm ever behind the wheel of a Tesla(if the Cybertruck ever became more affordable/I made more money, it could happen).

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BMWbill@reddit

I don’t agree nor do I drive like you. I have lived in NYC all my 55 years, and started driving on manhattan when I used to steel my dad’s Chevelle at 15 and I’d drive all over manhattan and the 4 boroughs. (Staten Island isn’t part of the real NYC) I drive the two most crowded highway parking lots in North America constantly- the BQE and the Cross Bronx Expressway, thousands of miles a year. Most of my life I’ve driven 3 pedal cars though. Rarely do I hover over the brake pedal unless I suspect a panic stop may be necessary. And that hasn’t changed- while slowing down in tight traffic I still may hold my foot over the brake pedal. But very rarely. When you spend over 40 years driving in intense NYC rush hour, you get really used to knowing when cars are going to stop. I’m always prepared for the car in front of me to crash. I’m also a motorcycle driver and when you let go of the throttle on a motorcycle, or on a manual shift car in low gear, it slows down exactly the same as a Tesla.

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MrBluSky717@reddit

I am familar with manual driving, and I ride motorcycles as well, so i know how that slow down is. Not nearly enough on their own in my opinion. I should also note that this is more my driving habit in urban scenarios such as my work commute. My commute is a straight shot down a single road, but that road is a 3-lane-50mph(so people easily do 65) main street that also intersects a major tollway. People are so impatient around here that they constantly speed and change lanes at the last moment without signaling so they don't have to wait like the other cars going to the tollway. It's REALLY tense around here at times... So the speed + the increasing number of idiots puts me on edge when traffic gets more concentrated. But, when it's not crowded, I don't float the brake. Also, my car isn't a braking machine, so this driving style is what I use for it specifically. I approach all cars differently, though. If i get something better down the road, I'll change it up to suit the car.

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BMWbill@reddit

Well, as someone who has driven mostly high power sports cars all my life, I can promise you that you would get used to one pedal driving. Eventually your muscle memory trains you to let off the throttle at 60mph at exactly the right moment so your car stops writhin inches of the white line at a stop sign. Every time. It’s not as thrilling as a manual shift, but without about it’s the easiest method of driving over ever experienced. Also don’t forget all the new cars have safety systems that hit the brakes for you way before you ever think to stop. I’m talking in terms of milliseconds, but still, my car has saved me from rear ending someone at least two times, before I thought to stop.

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MrBluSky717@reddit

All new cars, you say? I know for a fact that's a lie, but I'll give you the margin that MOST new nice cars have collision-avoidance systems. But the cars I've driven don't have those fancy features. My exes car did, and I barely drove it. Other than that, my cars have been assist-less, and I plan on keeping it that way, as I just don't fully trust that tech.

I apologize if this seems like an argument, but I'd like to clarify that I'm just pointing out my opinion on the topic from my experiences and those of the people who taught me how to drive safely and effectively, i.e. my dad, who's driven many things from box trucks and sub-compacts to liter-bikes and muscle cars. I was taught the basics and built my driving style on his advice and my own mistakes, and it's what I use. And I understand that your life has probably given you vastly different experiences from mine, and you learned differently and have faith in your way, much in the same way I have faith in mine. And I know after this conversation has concluded, we will both drive our own ways as we always have. I do appreciate you sharing your experience with me though, and maybe I'll learn to drive 1-pedal style from time to time down the road because of this.

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BMWbill@reddit

No need to apologize as this is a civil debate between two calm people which to me is one of the best things about Reddit, when it happens. However, I was not telling a “lie”, but I did leave out a word, I see. I meant to say all new EV cars have collision avoidance systems. While early collision avoidance systems back in the early 2000’s had faults, they are on versions 3 or 4 by now, and if you don’t trust them, quite frankly you are foolish or uninformed. Years of data shows they save thousands of people per year from potentially fatal accidents. Like seatbelts and ABS brakes, they should be and will be mandatory for all vehicles eventually. It seems to me that you simply haven’t had your life saved yet by one of these systems. There are no real negatives other than occasional early activation that scares you. Not all brands are equal, and in my experience with my last 4 cars, my Tesla has the best and smartest collision avoidance.

Anyway, I’m guessing that I’ve driven more late model, fully loaded cars than you have. These systems do trickle down, and soon everyone can enjoy them. Toyota includes very decent collision avoidance systems on every single car the sell, for instance.

Have a good one.

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MisterSquidInc@reddit

never have to move my foot from pedal to pedal

Except for an emergency stop situation.

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BMWbill@reddit

Yes, obviously. But I often drive a regular 20 hour trip to Canada and back in my Tesla without ever using the brake pedal once.

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slamm3d68@reddit

Some of that is probably regen braking. Regen braking is automatically applied as you let off the accelerator, it's pretty aggressive and automatically triggers the tail lights even thought the brake pedal wasn't pressed.

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lovely_sombrero@reddit

If you drive a Tesla, you just suck at driving.

One part of it is people relying on FSD/Autopilot - we've seen plenty of examples of a Tesla just driving straight into stopped vehicles, especially large vehicles like semis and fire trucks.

The other part is that Tesla drivers tend to be tech enthusiasts (I have no idea why, I guess the big tablet on the dash makes it feel like a tech product first), who maybe aren't that good at driving cars with very quick and sudden acceleration, it would probably be better if the main Tesla customer was a car enthusiast.

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SamsonFox2@reddit

The other part is that Tesla drivers tend to be tech enthusiasts (I have no idea why, I guess the big tablet on the dash makes it feel like a tech product first), who maybe aren't that good at driving cars with very quick and sudden acceleration

If that's the case then my insurance company doesn't know about this, since having an advanced tech degree got me a really nice discount.

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WaffleHouseFistFight@reddit

Also Tesla has insane acceleration for the price but shit breaking and handling.

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M66vb@reddit

On top of all the shit breaking, they also have shit braking…

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WaffleHouseFistFight@reddit

On ToP oF aLl ThE sHiT bReAkInG, tHeY AlSo HaVe ShIt BrAKInG…

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Ran4@reddit

Breaking yes handling no

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Ohshitwadddup@reddit

I drove a modelS and model3 both handle terribly.

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WaffleHouseFistFight@reddit

Ehhh sorta. It’s weird braking like very regenerative and it slows fast for a normal grocery getter. It does not brake performance car. Get in a sports car and slam the brakes then do the same from the same speed in a model 3.

I’m comparing to sports cars because that’s what they accelerate like.

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mrsneil948@reddit

With Elon finally showing his true side and joining Trump's administration, do you think Tesla will lose its current base of more liberal buyers? I say liberal because in the early days of Tesla, I came across some very outspoken liberal minded folks bragging about how much better there Tesla's were. But they are the same types that absolutely hate Trump/MAGA. So I find this new political situation very odd. Maybe this is another smart Elon ploy to attract a new Tesla fan base from MAGA? Personally, I think that will backfire on Elon. I guarantee some current Tesla owners will be selling there's, or atleast not replacing it, as there are a lot more (and sometimes better EVs) to choose from now. In contrast, MAGA types in general will be the last group to even consider an EV. I predict Tesla going down in flames during this administration.

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LabronPaul@reddit

I will add that anecdotally a lot of Tesla owners I know explicitly hate driving and only do it because they have to.

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justawhifofacloudofs@reddit

The reason is fsd. Teslas fsd is flawed.

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blindeshuhn666@reddit

"a focused, alert driver..." Probably also plays a big part. Some surely believe the marketing words "full self driving" and think they can play on their phone or eat/drink while driving (FSD - which they had to change to "potential for future partly autonomous driving" in the EU)

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tatsumakisenpuukyaku@reddit

my buddy has a tesla and will spare no opportunity to absolutely gun the acceleration, no matter how crowded the road is. It's truly a harrowing experience.

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Pseudonym_741@reddit

I am used to flooring it every time as well, seeing as my Toyota can't keep up with traffic otherwise.

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HedonisticFrog@reddit

That's the baseline for my 1984 Mercedes 300SD as well. 124hp for a 4000lb sedan with four gears makes it a necessity.

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Missus_Missiles@reddit

Oh yeah! I drove one of those. Really slow. But when you kept the pedal down, it did have highway legs.

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HedonisticFrog@reddit

It can definitely cruise on the highway at 80mph all day long, it just takes a bit to get there.

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Pseudonym_741@reddit

The sound alone must be worth it though.

Great taste in cars, both the SL and the W123 are fantastic.

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HedonisticFrog@reddit

Thank you, I love the W126 chassis especially. It's funny when people first hear the engine and ask if the car is okay.

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FordTaurusFPIS@reddit

50.........50 and a half.............51.............52................53..........

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jonkzx@reddit

My brothers first car was a 180D and if he wanted to pass someone, he had to plan it a week in advance.

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thewheelsgoround@reddit

We've seen them with bald factory tires, at 12,000 miles (and others where the owner has got 35,000 miles on the original tires).

That's not a car problem - it's a driver with a lead foot problem.

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Kirk57@reddit

Incorrect. They did not say that. What they said is that they are idiots, they do not even understand data. The data in the article indicates the Tesla drive the furthest between fatal crashes. This makes them the safest cars, not the most dangerous.so obvious your conclusion is extremely flawed.

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ScrotumNipples@reddit

I also wonder if also has anything to do with the fact that Tealas weigh almost 2x as much as similar size cars. If Bill Nye taught me anything it's that a toy dump truck full of marbles smashes into things a lot harder than an empty one.

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BetterDrinkMy0wnPiss@reddit

They're heavy cars but 2x the weight of similar cars just isn't true.

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slamm3d68@reddit

Painting with a broad stroke. Model 3 performance is within 100 lbs of a BMW m3. Model S,X, and truck are where things get heavy.

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marinuss@reddit

Automated driver controls over time lead to complacence. Even in a Ford, with auto lane centering, adaptive cruise control, etc I notice I can kind of "zone out" on a long drive for stretches. They are great things, but aren't that great in emergencies.

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Tetris_Prime@reddit

OR hear me out, maybe it's related to the car being able to drive somewhat by itself, and that leads to drivers not paying attention, often even seen sleeping or on their phones.

In Denmark electrical cars have massive incentives, and that leads to people buying them instead much lower powered cars. If you buy a RS6 in Denmark, you are a huge car guy because the entry-price is over 316k usd, a base model 3 is 42k usd, and that makes it cheaper than even the smallest ID4, and that indeed makes tesla drivers over all bad drivers, because a significant amount people who buy them haven't got any prior experience with higher power cars.

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swords-and-boreds@reddit

This, but without the /s. Everyone who drives a Tesla is dumb, gullible, and bad at driving.

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Caysman2005@reddit

I swear some of you people are just here to hate.

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Mentalv@reddit

Elon finally did it, the Tesla Model 3 is the new BMW 3 Series

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Agree-With-Above@reddit

Wow. Maybe people that drive nice cars, that enjoy the act of driving, tend to be more attentive driving, and so are better drivers?

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jonboyz31@reddit

Driving instructors in my area use the model 3 to train and test drivers SMH.

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railbeast@reddit

What the fuck. Should be an old Beetle like in Mexico

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jzr171@reddit

No /s it's true. All these new driving features are making bad drivers. These features don't really work reliably and the drivers aren't paying attention and die.

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Lilmumblecrapper@reddit

I didn’t read the article, but have driven a few Teslas. Most drivers won’t know what to do with all that acceleration. I’ve owned a WS6, Hemi c, and those once formidable cars don’t hold a candle to a base model 3 at least in terms of acceleration. And I fully admit foot goes to the floor when driving one as I’ve never experienced acceleration like that.

[-]

Car-face@reddit

They finally said it. If you drive a Tesla, you just suck at driving.

It's less that, and more that Tesla market their autonomous systems using more misleading terminology than others - leading people to assume the tech has more capability than it does, and failing to stay aware of their surroundings.

It's not a new phenomenon, studies have demonstrated the effect, but it's now at the point where even the most staunch sycophants' only fallback is the FAA handbook - which approximately 0 % of Tesla drivers use as the basis for their understanding of what "autopilot" means.

[-]

olov244@reddit

“A focused, alert driver

this, f all the other crap. we put so many nanny safety features, and so many distractions in cars, the bad drivers never learn how to drive well

remove all air bags/etc and let nature take it's course

[-]

Wonderful_Device312@reddit

Buick is third on the list. Better than I was expecting for a brand that exclusively caters to people that need to pass annual exams to retain their drivers licences.

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f8Negative@reddit

Look at every collision center they are filled with white teslas.

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ProJoe@reddit

thats more because nobody can get replacement parts lol

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xnodesirex@reddit

Dodge ram owners are feeling so much better about themselves right now

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TheRealPlumbus@reddit

Yep, a not insignificant portion of Tesla owners got a “self driving” car because they suck at and are afraid of driving. They want it to drive for them.

Except the car isn’t truly self driving, and accelerates faster than almost anything else on the road. None of this surprises me and tracks exactly with what I see on the road every day.

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hansolocup7073@reddit

To be fair, the worst drivers I see in modern vehicles are by far in Teslas.

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Religion_Of_Speed@reddit

A focused, alert driver,

Hard to do when you implement features that remove the perceived need to be focused and alert. I've said it before and I'll keep saying it - cars are too safe these days. I don't think many people would even dare to blink if we were all driving Dodge Vipers around. You know when I'm most focused? When I'm going [redacted] mph down a back road. And when I'm the least focused? Going 65 in a car that alerts me to everything, pilots itself in some cases, and focuses more on comfort than driving capabilities.

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guy_incognito784@reddit

I know it's anecdotal and just my personal observation but around here most Tesla drivers I see aren't doing anything that might lead to a fatal crash, in fact they're typically just going 10 mph under in the left lane.

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wod_van2z@reddit

Purely anecdotal and generalizing, but I find Tesla drivers the worst kind of drivers here in the Netherlands.

Yes, unlike Amsterdam taxis, delivery vans and youngsters on straight-piped Golfs, they are slow (sometimes annoyingly slow), but very erratic, unpredictable and with total lack of situational awareness.

Also headlights are awful on 3 and Y models, rather dazzling in the low beam mode.

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AllegedCerealKiller@reddit

Same here in the U.S. Teslas seem to attract people who just aren't interested in driving or see it as a chore they can automate away. I always found it kind of weird that Teslas (probably among the quickest cars on any given stretch of road) are almost invariably being driven SO slowly.

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Unspoken@reddit

If you drive in the DC area, you will absolutely loathe anyone that drives a Tesla. They are everywhere and they do not give a fuck about anyone else on the road. But high entitlement is the general consensus on this area anyway

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PaulTheMerc@reddit

Gotta uber/skip/insert app to pay it off. Alternatively, cheap running costs for delivery people

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seopants@reddit

Buying a Plaid or Performance seems to be a total waste of money based on never seeing a Tesla driver accelerating quickly at any point.

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TurboFucked@reddit

Buying a Plaid or Performance seems to be a total waste of money based on never seeing a Tesla driver accelerating quickly at any point.

Probably because I drive a sports car, but 900% of the time there's a M3P or Plaid around, they are driving balls out.

It's not that apparent since they don't really make any noise, so you only really notice they're gunning if it you're trying to keep up. It's one of the benefits to driving one, honestly, you can bomb around in them without drawing any attention.

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JayBee58484@reddit

Yea thats probably the best part. I could be lightly accelerating in the ZL1, and get people driving up my ass like I'm about to take off since it's loud, either that or they just look at and assume I'm gonna drive like a dickhead. Unnoticeable 1000hp has to be an odd thing to get used to

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AllegedCerealKiller@reddit

Right? While I'm not super thrilled that this is the caliber of driver with a 2.1s car under their butt, you'd think they would use some of that when they actually need it, like on very short onramps. Have NEVER seen it.

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bytedozer@reddit

I live in the bay area where this is also the case. I see teslas driving terribly and getting into accidents frequently. I went to Amsterdam recently and like the first day there my girlfriend saw someone crash their Tesla. It was funny to see that the tesla drivers being terrible stereotype seems to be true universally

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Emyxn@reddit

I live in NL and I agree. Tesla drivers are either slow and erratic, or very aggressive, no in between.

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RCDrift@reddit

It's the same in the states. All the worst drivers left their Audis and BMWs behind for Teslas.

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NinjaLion@reddit

Absolutely the same people/type of people. I am regularly blown away by the behavior of Tesla drivers in my city. straight blasting through red lights, on their phones at green lights, and constant lane hopping with no signals.

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railbeast@reddit

constant lane hopping with no signals

They have an excuse now, they have no stalks!

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Cali_Hapa_Dude@reddit

You forgot Prius owners too. And now old beat up Priuses are the ones to watch out for on the road since they seem to be driven mostly by rideshare and delivery drivers who drive fast and erratically, make last minute turns, and drivers are looking at their phones for directions or their next pickup.

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Skodakenner@reddit

Yes same here in germany. Basically they are either holding up traffic because they drive super slow disrupt traffic because they dont watch where they are going or the blind traffic because the headlights are badly adjusted. Im really happy that in the mornings when i drive to work the average tesla driver is still asleep. What really irritates me are the amount of old people in SUVs i see at that time what on earth are they doing that they need to hold up traffic at 5:30am in an Industrial estate?

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dre2112@reddit

I think erratic is the perfect word to describe Tesla drivers here in California. They’re either driving insanely slow or 2seconds later they’re going faster than a race car. Most of them cannot handle the acceleration and deceleration of that car. There needs to be a special driving test just for those cars

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DrZedex@reddit

They're not merely straight piped anymore, they're burble tuned.

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TheAlphaCarb0n@reddit

Man. I've been an enthusiast forever. Still put my window down for exhaust notes if I see something fun coming past. But anyone with an intentional backfire tune can completely fuck off.

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DrZedex@reddit

The subtle little burble that imitates a carbed engine was cute. They quickly got extrapolated to where we are now and...yeah I'm with you it's all dumb just now, it jumped the shark real quick.

[-]

TheAlphaCarb0n@reddit

Yeah, the burble isn't my thing but it's not offensive so I don't care. I just don't wanna feel like I'm being shot at on my way to work

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Ezekeal@reddit

This article is full of shit. Run the query yourself and you'll see the actual unsafe car brands. Tesla doesn't even rank

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Mean_Ice_2663@reddit

Having electronically controlled doors that trap you in a burning vehicle seems very safe Elon

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Ezekeal@reddit

So…you didn’t bother checking the data then

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Mean_Ice_2663@reddit

The top 5 manufacturers are not only the most sold vehicles in the US but their most sold models are polluting deathtraps like SUV's and lifted pickup trucks.

Still won't be buying your pot metal with cheap chinese electronics Elon, I prefer being able to open my car doors without mobile apps most of the year.

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Ezekeal@reddit

Is Elon there with you in the room right now?

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Mean_Ice_2663@reddit

Clearly not, just like the rest of your argument.

Keep driving chinese pot metal death traps that are engineered to last less than 7 years and you can't even open from the inside in an emergency :)

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Ezekeal@reddit

My only argument was that the article was wrong based on their source data.

You had a knee jerk reaction based on your feelings without looking at the data.

Then when you looked at the data you backpedaled to a position that matched your feelings and pretended I was Elon to manufacture an enemy.

I’m not pro Tesla or Elon. I’m against misinformation.

This article is misinformation based on their manipulation of the source data.

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TheReaperSovereign@reddit

Anecdotal but there's a huge news story in my area where a tesla with 5 passengers hit a tree, engulfed in flames and killed all 5 passengers.

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azurite--@reddit

I mean the same has happened to people who drove ICE cars.

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BanEvader2024@reddit

I hate it when someone has to ride in my rear seats, the front doors have emergency door handles that can open the door without power but the rear doors simply don't have that feature. I'm sure it saved them about $10 per car to not include it.

Apparently the 2024+ Model 3 now has a rear door release so at least the new car is safer in that regard.

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DrZedex@reddit

Dude, what?! The rear doors have no mechanical override? Wtf how is that even legal?

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yourlocalFSDO@reddit

Ever ridden in the back of an extended cab Ford truck? Can’t open the rear doors if the front doors are closed.

Ever ridden in the back of a 2+2 coupe? No rear doors at all.

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DrZedex@reddit

I'll excuse that in a vehicle when the alternative is no doors at all. Realistically almost nobody actually sits in the back of a sports coupe or extended can truck. It's mostly just a space to store your crap and maybe a person in a pinch.

In a sedan designed explicitly to haul around families, it's pretty inexcusable. Hell it was pitched as a taxi and commonly used for rideshare.

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Ian_Kilmister@reddit

Is there rear exterior door handles? No different than child locks. Not agreeing with the premise but you could be locked in a regular car too.

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egowritingcheques@reddit

Child locks should only be engaged for carrying young children. Children so young they might pull the handle and not know what it does. I turned them off when my kids were about 4.

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DrZedex@reddit

I can (and do) turn the child lock off though. Not the same at all.

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Rattle_Can@reddit

the hilarious thing is the mechanical override cable IS there in the model 3 - its just capped off with a piece of foam so it doesn't rattle & just sits under the interior serving no purpose.

in the model Y, that cable actually runs thru the interior trim panel, and comes out thru the bottom of the cup holders. in an emergency you yank that cable to pop the doors open.

i presume the provisions are almost all the way there because of the shared platform between the 3 vs Y, but they never went thru on the 3 for cost savings

i dont know how its legal, but they sure as hell saved a few cents per rear door

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DrZedex@reddit

That's fascinating. Thank you for explaining!

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JaspahX@reddit

There's a reason -- well, really multiple reasons -- that the Cybertruck is not road legal in Europe.

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greenefiend@reddit

Your rear seats have emergency releases as well; it's underneath the rear door pocket covers: https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/model3/en_us/GUID-A7A60DC7-E476-4A86-9C9C-10F4A276AB8B.html

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mishap1@reddit

Doesn't seem to be consistently there.

https://youtu.be/FWUWm9KaHzE?si=od-H-AioBfovQqBH

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mishap1@reddit

Of course it happens, but few cars have electronic door switches that have nonintuitive emergency handles especially in back. Then you can further amp it up with electronic doors that you have to fight past to exit.

https://youtube.com/shorts/cfPhUY9erLM?si=BVb4obZ47niebejZ

The Cybertruck adds extra tough window glass.

https://youtu.be/O2fUhCCuTto?si=_7nVCqDFKjJZwGRR

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Mather_Fakker@reddit

nonintuitive emergency handles especially in back

Still baffles me why this is a thing on Teslas. Mind-boggling decision.

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Vandrel@reddit

Seems to be unique to the Model X. Most other Teslas just have a little lever on the door to force it open manually, it's really easy. In fact, I always have to tell people to hit the button to open the door instead of using the manual release unless it's an emergency because they always find that first.

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Brucenotsomighty@reddit

It's almost like it's easier to just have a normal mechanical latch

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MilkyWaySamurai@reddit

But then they can’t sell you a subscription for the latest door handle software features. 😐🔫

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Rattle_Can@reddit

it sucks the model 3 doesn't have a manual override cable release in the rear doors/back seat

iirc, there is still a cable that runs underneath the plastic interior trim panel to actuate the door release, but tesla never bothered to make it actually accessible thru the panel at the cup holders like they did with the model Y (in the name of cost savings?? smh)

ive seen DIY mods on YT where you cut out an opening in the rear cup holder & make the cable usable with an extension string, but it sucks tesla didn't just do it from factory

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AmNoSuperSand52@reddit

There must be some retrofit that Tesla did because my friends 2018 model has the plastic pull handles

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mishap1@reddit

That's the front doors. The rear doors apparently do not have one on older cars.

https://youtu.be/FWUWm9KaHzE?si=od-H-AioBfovQqBH

They apparently added it to the Highland Model 3.

https://www.reddit.com/r/RealTesla/comments/15owq4j/new_highland_model_3_equipped_with_rear_emergency/

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IcyOrganization5235@reddit

The same...wtf? Yes, but the car didn't lock people in. Remember that billionaire who backed into a lake and died because electronic doors don't function when there's no power? (Mechanical doors, on the other hand and I can't believe I have to actually type this out, do work when there's no power.)

But that's OK with me. If you drive a Tesla go ahead and think you're safe. Natural selection at it's finest.

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munche@reddit

But to pretend that fires aren't more intense and harder to extinguish on an EV is just dishonest. It goes a lot farther to be honest about pros and cons rather than people who are trying to turn it into a fanboy argument.

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MiloRoast@reddit

I've seen many car fires, and they absolutely pale in comparison to even a relatively small Lithium battery fire. If your Tesla catches on fire and you're trapped inside, you're absolutely fucked 99.9% of the time. If your ICE car catches on fire with you inside, you generally have a while to figure things out and get a good ways away, and they never really burn crazy hot and fast like electric cars do. Fire departments can put out a raging ICE car in a matter of seconds...I've seen it personally. Lithium battery fires you essentially just have to try to smother/mitigate spread and wait for them to burn out. There is absolutely no comparison.

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Real-Cricket9435@reddit

Battery fire != gasoline fire

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Jake5857@reddit

RIP Paul walker

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RevvCats@reddit

Don’t drive high performance cars on old tires, that’s a recipe for death.

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AwesomeBantha@reddit

and if you are going to drive high performance cars on old tires, don’t go 90 miles per hour

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RevvCats@reddit

Makes me wonder how many of these fatal Tesla accidents were on worn out tires. I see soooooo many cars out and about with tires that look like racing slicks. Pair that with a car that A) wears down tires faster than people are used to B) has supercar acceleration

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willpc14@reddit

...while drinking and driving.

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gumol@reddit

Not how he died.

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Jake5857@reddit

I think the other driver hit a pole or something similar and they died on impact essentially right? Been a while since I researched that. I just remember it was that Porsche that Doug demure has

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gumol@reddit

Yeah so he wasn't trapped in the car

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DoesntFearZeus@reddit

Well it was a convertible, right?

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Jake5857@reddit

Gotcha. Well wether I crash into a tree in my Tesla or my crx I’m dead either way lol

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psaux_grep@reddit

People who die in EV crash + fires are often dead before the fire starts.

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mishap1@reddit

Do you have a stat for that?

Passenger cell looked intact otherwise. https://people.com/4-killed-after-tesla-crash-sparks-fire-in-toronto-8743464

The Tesla employee who drunk drove his claimed FSD car was heard screaming by his friend before the fire consumed the car which you can also see was largely intact. https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/interactive/2024/tesla-full-self-driving-fatal-crash/

These people unbuckled their seatbelts and moved around the car. https://www.newsweek.com/driver-was-behind-wheel-tesla-when-it-crashed-questions-surround-autopilot-ntsb-1641334

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Nomad624@reddit

Not really. They got stuck because the physical door releases are hard to find if you don't already know where they are. Something like this happened to an old man and his corvette. It has less to do with the car being an EV, more so with the stupid design.

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gumol@reddit

link?

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Vorcia@reddit

The same thing happened near me recently: https://futurism.com/the-byte/four-die-trapped-burning-tesla

I also heard of a story of some lady who drowned in a Tesla because the disabled electronic components stopped her from opening the door. I know there's an emergency way to open the door but clearly it's not easy enough to operate under stress, the doors on them are just dangerously designed.

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SPorterBridges@reddit

I also heard of a story of some lady who drowned in a Tesla because the disabled electronic components stopped her from opening the door.

You mean the one where it turned out the lady's blood alcohol was 3x over the legal limit and drove her car into a pond in the first place?

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86Austin@reddit

stared at this comment for like 5 minutes trying to figure out what it has to do with the door malfunctioning and not opening

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munche@reddit

It's really ghoulish that the EV fanboy contingent is so willing to just dismiss dead bodies for the sake of winning a stupid platform war argument

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SPorterBridges@reddit

I guess it's the car company's fault for not building a breathalyzer into the door frame to prevent drunks from getting in and driving their vehicle backwards into a pond then.

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Vandrel@reddit

Any time someone new is in my car I have to tell them to hit the button instead of pulling the manual release lever because it's so much more obvious than the button. I have no idea how someone could just not figure it out.

But then again, there was also someone who sat in a turned off Tesla for an hour while it updated because they didn't even bother trying to open the door so who knows, there's a lot of unintelligent people out there.

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moops__@reddit

Or they could just put regular door handles like every other car. They change shit for the sake of changing it.

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Vandrel@reddit

There are a number of other manufacturers that have models with a button to open the door and I'm fairly sure Tesla wasn't the first one to do it.

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TheReaperSovereign@reddit

Here's the reddit thread

https://www.reddit.com/r/madisonwi/s/cAwukW2Fp3

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slashkehrin@reddit

Channel 3000 is a boss name for a TV station.

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TheReaperSovereign@reddit

I did some more googling

Here is the follow up from 3 days after the initial story but before the names came out yesterday

https://www.channel3000.com/news/dane-county-sheriffs-office-provides-update-on-deadly-tesla-crash-in-verona/article_1d7794b4-9ad7-11ef-88e4-efb51b3572e5.html

The video is speculating what happened but about 40 seconds in they post a snippet of the dispatch transcripts

Apparently people were screaming trying to get out, ie: at least some of them were alive on impact

As far as my small town stories go - every in town was discussing getting some window breakers the past week in case of something like that happening to them

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gumol@reddit

The cause of death for five people killed in a crash in the Town of Verona is still being determined

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TheReaperSovereign@reddit

The fire department was called, the car was on fire and everyone was dead

Probably 5 simultaneous heart attacks instead.

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gumol@reddit

So people are never incapacitated or dead just from the crash itself?

If the only reason why people can’t walk out of their cars after a crash are door locks, we would have virtually no traffic fatalities ever.

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nondescriptzombie@reddit

It's not door locks. It's electronic latch mechanisms.

We had cars for over a hundred years with classical latches. We don't need capacitive touch-sensitive electronic latches.

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TheReaperSovereign@reddit

I'll tell you what. They just released the names yesterday so I will personally tag you as they officially release more information that way one of us can be real smug in a week or two

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gumol@reddit

Man, this isn’t about being smug. I feel like you’re taking it very personally.

I don’t like Tesla either, but let’s be fact based and not jump to conclusions

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TheReaperSovereign@reddit

I don't have anything against tesla. I was just sharing a story

The community around here is not large. You don't have to wait for official statements for people to know what happens. The person who called the fire department was running for a seat in the state senate for example

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NineteenSixtySix@reddit

Just happened in Toronto 2 weeks ago. 4 young people died. Hit a guard rail. They couldn't escape because of the failure of the door handle.

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moonRekt@reddit

Are you taking about in Toronto where they crashed into a barrier or is that a seperate story?

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TheReaperSovereign@reddit

There's another one outside of madison wi.

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CD_4M@reddit

It’s because of how fast and heavy they are

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mocoyne@reddit

The car that is number 1 on the list is a 120hp shit box lol

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AmericanExcellence@reddit

wait i heard they didn't.

actually, i think i read on here yesterday that they were the safest thing of any kind to ever exist.

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hi_im_bored13@reddit

They are

The study’s authors make clear that the results do not indicate Tesla vehicles are inherently unsafe or have design flaws. In fact, Tesla vehicles are loaded with safety technology; the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) named the 2024 Model Y as a Top Safety Pick+ award winner, for example. Many of the other cars that ranked highly on the list have also been given high ratings for safety by the likes of IIHS and the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration, as well.

But the drivers aren’t

“The models on this list likely reflect a combination of driver behavior and driving conditions, leading to increased crashes and fatalities,”

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rx-pulse@reddit

Lol, I work in Irvine California, home of Teslas galore and entitled fucks. Almost always they are atrocious drivers. Constantly distracted, doing dangerous maneuvers, and blatantly breaking traffic laws. No amount of safety features can stop a shit and careless driver.

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NCBaddict@reddit

Seattle driver checking in here to agree. Amazon folks buy these, and it’s the first car for many of the overseas folk.

Literally sat in the backseat of someone who turned on their Autopilot at a stop sign intersection just for giggles. It took us 10 minutes to do a simple left turn that we could’ve done in 30 seconds BECAUSE HE REFUSED TO DO IT MANUALLY for the gee whiz factor. I was about to strangle him by the ride’s end.

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PigSlam@reddit

The last time I was in Irvine, I was riding with my friend in his 2016 Subaru Outback with some decent driver assist features between his place and the concert we were going to in LA. We were weaving through 60mph traffic going 85mph while he looked up the address of our destination on his phone so I could enter it into the GPS app on my phone, while he was hitting his cannabis vape pen. He was visibly annoyed when I dared to suggest that maybe we weren't approaching these challenges in the best way we could.

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ManyPromises@reddit

Did you get there? Some drivers are better when they are "in the zone".

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PigSlam@reddit

Yeah, we made it without incident. It's weird, my friend is generally very risk averse, and won't do things like ski, or mountain bike because it's dangerous, but he'll drive like that everywhere like it's not a big deal.

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CantReadGood_@reddit

Subaru drivers are undoubtedly the worst.

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hi_im_bored13@reddit

They are a combination of BMW and prius drivers. Instant torque is a hell of a drug. And then the same idiots will complain about tire wear - if they don’t crash the car by then.

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graviousishpsponge@reddit

Have weirdly positive or neutral experience with bmws that are above 2015 models in central valley interstate 99. The beaters and rust buckets are a damn menace though while Prius hog the left lane or cruise sub 65 on empty middle lane. .

[-]

wangchunge@reddit

Thanks for comment. Enlightening..the fact they dont seem to concentrate on driving the car... seen this...

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thousand56@reddit

Tesla blasted past a line of cars and through 2 lights in right turn only/bus lanes to pass everyone on my commute yesterday

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boondoggie42@reddit

Seems like there is another statistic that is needed here... survival rate of certain types of crashes or something, to determine the truth behind the first statement.

Eg: In front end collisions, have people died more or less often per 100 crashes than other models?

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hi_im_bored13@reddit

Even then you’re going to have brands with plenty of speeding-induced collisions (e.g. porsche) and plenty of brands that skew towards fender benders (i doubt anyone is speeding in an XC90)

the closest you will get to proving that first point is sealed testing at the iihs&nhsta with set constants. Anything in the real world has too many variables to draw conclusions from

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roman_maverik@reddit

Your comment is crazy to me because in upscale neighborhoods over here, the XC90 and Telluride drivers are like Altima meme only for the upper middle class suburbia.

Especially during school hours

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hi_im_bored13@reddit

It’s just generally what i’ve noticed - volvo drivers have kids to lose and drive safe. Obviously just an anecdote so it’s only true for me and maybe will or won’t be true where you live.

That being said, i’ll confidently bet the average xc90 driver is safer than the average model y driver by a very good margin.

No idea how you’d go about measuring that though

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Alepale@reddit

As a person living in Sweden where Volvo is without a doubt the most popular brand, Volvo drivers are absolute idiots and abso-fricking-lutely drive well above the speed limit. However, mostly it's mostly on highways though, where I guess it's not as bad as in a residential area.

But yeah, this is different since it's the most popular brand here and when the majority of the population does something, plenty of idiots will show their faces.

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hi_im_bored13@reddit

Yeah I think it’s a bit different in america where volvo is still a niche and looked at as making boring, slow, but safe premium cars

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Ran4@reddit

Lol slow... They make some of the fastest non enthusiast cars out there. A five year old V60 T8 is faster than most Porsches

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DoctFaustus@reddit

I was visiting my sister and had to run an errand with her and two of her kids. I witnessed her tailgating someone in the right lane on the freeway. Making herself really angry at the car keeping her from the urgent errand. Instead of what a regular person would do an just simply go around on the left. I am positive her children's lives wasn't even going through her mind.

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EndPsychological890@reddit

Allstate's internal data could tell us all so much.

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A_Right_Proper_Lad@reddit

When I was young, I remember my parents saying something along the lines of "ladies driving minivans full of kids were a menace on the road because they're always in a rush".

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_-bread-_@reddit

In Sweden people definitely speed in the 450+hp T8 XC90s (but I get your point)

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Quaiche@reddit

Bro, someone in a XC90 wanted to prove something to me when they tried to race me in my A110 gt.

I believe that specific model has 400 ish hp.

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BlazinAzn38@reddit

Honestly my guess is it’s the power and it’s something EVs probably need to reckon with at some point. A CRV gets to 60 in 8+ seconds off of 190hp, a bottom spec Model Y gets to 60 in 6.5 in RWD or 4.8 in AWD. Not to say it’s Corvette fast but for a crossover shopper maybe that’s just too much

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Reddit_Killed_3PAs@reddit

This is more likely honestly. People don’t realise how much the instant torque can contribute to having an accident.

People are used to sluggish automatic transmissions, and even decently fact ones will take some time to react when flooring it, but in an EV, you floor it and you get all that power at once.

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ArachnidUnhappy8367@reddit

This is what I was going to say. To further add. A top spec model 3 is only ~55k before incentives. And will do the deed in sub 3 seconds. Now add to this the steep depreciation EV’s broadly see in the used market. And you can see how cheap this performance really is after only a few years.

This kind of performance used to only be sought out and would cost above the average cost of new or used cars. So it was generally reserved for more enthusiastic buyers who at least had an understanding of the performance at their hands. Now you have the average careless driver driving vehicles well beyond their capabilities. So those two combine to create a recipe for disaster.

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BlazinAzn38@reddit

100% people always talk about young people looking for the cheapest way to get a V6 which usually meant an Infiniti with the 3.7. But now you can get nearly 400+hp from a used EV for like $25K

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veils1de@reddit

i think there's an accident rate per X miles. i dont recall the stat but i remember seeing tesla was amongst the lowest. i could be wrong

another way to think about it is the cars can overall be very safe, but the only people that are crashing it are doing ridiculously dumb things, leading to the high fatality rate. things like speed of crash, whether other vehiclees are involved, can answer that

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boondoggie42@reddit

exactly. if you study deaths per X crashes rather than miles, you're taking the driver out of the equation.

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HourTemperature3@reddit

Not exactly because if you get in a fender bender in the school pickup line you have a very different survival rate than if you yeet your car off the edge of the cliff at 120 while canyon carving in your 911. Need away to control the size and the speed of the accident which is why crash testing is so helpful.

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boondoggie42@reddit

that's what I said in my first statement. comparing certain types of crashes to each other. Are rollovers in teslas any more deadly per 100 rollovers than any other car?

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democracywon2024@reddit

The Vette: People over drive the car and wrap it a around a tree head on.

The 911: People over drive the car and wrap it around a tree rears first.

Tesla: Unsafe because they use auto-pilot, text on their phones, and don't pay attention to the road.

Mirage: Actually just an unsafe car.

Venue: Actually just an unsafe car.

CRV-Hybrid: Women can't drive.

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slapdashbr@reddit

crv is old people

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captainnowalk@reddit

Mirages and venues are also really popular with parents buying their kids new cars. I’d wager it’s that more than the car, both of them are still probably much safer than my 2005 car!

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biggsteve81@reddit

Yeah, the Venue does quite well in crash tests, but it is a very small and lightweight car so it has physics working against it. Add teenage drivers to the equation and its no wonder there are a high rate of fatal crashes.

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hi_im_bored13@reddit

I think for the last one it’s teenagers more than housewives

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Bonerchill@reddit

I find it interesting that 40% of the dangerous cars are for poors.

The working poor often make bad decisions due to stress and inability to think ahead, instead focusing on immediate needs. Also due to lack of control in other aspects of their life.

Olds are just old and do dumb shit because they’re old. Respect your elders went out the window when so many of them decided to fuck the country.

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GrumpyOlBastard@reddit

I think the common denominator here is these vehicles can be speedy and deaths are more likely in high-speed collisions

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thegooddoctorben@reddit

The Mirage and CR-V Hybrid are speedy?

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LtPhildoRaines@reddit

The Mirage is so fast you don't even know if what you are seeing is actually the car!!

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GrumpyOlBastard@reddit

That's my story and I'm sticking to it

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moonRekt@reddit

Doesn’t help that 911s are notorious for catching fire after accidents

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Nomad624@reddit

The CR-V hybrid doesnt make sense. The Mirage and Venue are small and cheap. The Vette and 911s are fast. The CR-V is a pretty decently sized, not ultra-cheap car that isn't very fast either.

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Colddeck64@reddit

Senior citizen drivers

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sponge_welder@reddit

This reminds me of Cirrus planes with the ballistic parachutes (and the introduction of ejection seats). They were initially more dangerous because the "get out of this situation" mechanism led people to take more risks, and when pilots really got in trouble they wouldn't actually use the lifesaving feature. Pilots wanted to use airmanship to save the situation and avoided using the parachute or eject button until it was too late.

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Coldones@reddit

I suspect it's just because the combo of fast and cheap to buy(used). For less than $20k you can get a vehicle that does 0-60 in ~3 seconds flat.

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altacan@reddit

Honda CR-V Hybrid

This was surprising, the other models are either cheap cars or performance cars.

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nucleartime@reddit

As one someone eyeing 911s and corvettes...

uhhhhhhhhhhtotallynotmeatall.

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WingerRules@reddit

Isnt Tesla crash tests performed by Tesla and then reported to the gov, and they haven't been tested directly in independent government crash testing?

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bigloser42@reddit

People that drive Teslas are, for the most part, people that view cars as an appliance. So you are taking people that are used to sub-200hp econoboxes with 8+ second 0-60s and putting them in cars with 400+ hp and 3-4s 0-60 times, and they are woefully underprepared to deal with that.

And yes, there are enthusiasts that drive Teslas, but they are in the vast minority.

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angrybluechair@reddit

Seriously? Tesla is pretty squarely in the enthusiast side in my view. Appliance cars are your 207s, Aygos, basically any Dacia car, Jazz, Fabia's and for your more well off econobxes enjoyer, the prisus and most hybrids like the modern Yaris and Jazz.

Tesla has always been a car that's attracted fanatics and enthusiast's, a extremely high price range and Tesla being the first all EV car company naturally makes the people who simply view a Tesla as a microwave they can drive, very small.

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llamacohort@reddit

It’s because you are here and know about cars. There are plenty of people who have no experience with a vehicle over like 200hp that get something like a model 3 AWD and find themselves behind the wheel of a 400hp car that has a 4 second 0-60.

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bigloser42@reddit

Tech enthusiasts yes. Car enthusiasts by and large are not buying a car that heavily advertises the ability to drive itself. Tesla is pulling in all the people that had money but drove a regular-ass Toyota Camry/Sienna/Highlander.

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agray20938@reddit

That's likely part of it, but I'd also think it's partly because:

Teslas are a very common choice for Uber/Lyft drivers, plenty of whom use less brain cells that a goldendoodle on the road
Cars-are-appliance people aren't buying plaids, and the entire premise of buying one is being able to accelerate insanely fast.

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bigloser42@reddit

Cars-as-appliance people will be buying the longest-range version AWD version, because for some reason everyone needs AWD or they will instantly die. The long-range AWD Teslas all are low 4s high 3s cars. Even the RWD base Model 3 is a 5s car. You can get plenty out of hand real quick with an inexperienced non-caring driver in a 4s car. The slowest Model S is 3.1s to 60, the slowest Model X is 3.8s, the slowest AWD Model Y is 4.8, and the slowest Model 3 AWD is 4.2s. And their 30-50 and 50-70 acceleration numbers are very low. These are cars you can get into serious trouble with very quickly & easily.

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llamacohort@reddit

Yeah, the model 3 AWD is a 400 hp car. A 4 second 0-60 is very fast for a vehicle that isn’t advertised as a performance vehicle at all.

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slashkehrin@reddit

Statistically speaking, a car can have twice the average fatalities rate AND at the same time get into half as many accidents.

Example: The average motorcycle probably gets into less accidents than the average car - but those accidents are still more lethal.

Or: The average Corolla (probably) gets into more accidents than the average Carrera GT, but the CGT might still be more likely to kill you.

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DrSpaceman575@reddit

I think the aggressive collision avoidance might also make the severity of crashes pretty lopsided. If you have fewer fender benders because the car stops itself, a larger proportion of total crashes would be the more serious ones.

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agray20938@reddit

Yeah this study was based on miles driven and removed low-production cars tho. So seemingly it would account for both of those things.

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juwyro@reddit

The cars are safe, the owners aren't. The owners put on cruise control and pass out in the back. I can't believe people will trust a technology because someone says it works.

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antryoo@reddit

It’s impossible to sleep while using any of the Tesla driving aids. Look any direction other than forward for more than a few seconds and it starts warning alerts. Ignore the alerts for a few more second and the system slows the car down to a stop

It’s to the point where people turn off all their aids so they can text on their phone uninterrupted

The reality is that a lot of Tesla drivers are just terrible drivers no matter what car they are in.

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Vandrel@reddit

Maybe at some point in the past a few people would do that but these days the cars will absolutely not allow that, they're pretty strict about attention monitoring.

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MembershipNo2077@reddit

Well, these aren't handed to just anyone either, the Tesla demographic seems to be the Altima drivers of yesteryear.

A normal person won't drive in emergency lanes at highspeed around traffic, they won't duck in and out of HOV lanes rapidly, they might stop at stale red lights, and they probably won't go 100 mph in 35 mph area: Tesla drivers on the other hand....

It's all anecdotal, but they've quickly replaced Nissan drivers as the most insane drivers on the road near me.

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BrainwashedHuman@reddit

All the blame isn’t on the owners there, when the company markets the product that way, made fake/misleading videos, provides inadequate driver monitoring, and even sells a product that does something it cannot currently do.

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amrindersr16@reddit

Its essentially because accidents are rare in a tesla so the one's that happen are usually at such a high speed that the safety tech can't save and those are usually fatal

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airfryerfuntime@reddit

Have you tried reading the article?

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watchingsongsDL@reddit

How dare you!

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strafefire@reddit

Teslas are safe vehicles.

It's the drivers that are utter and complete shitters.

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coffeeINJECTION@reddit

Cars are safe and designed with safety in mind. However, you cannot out-engineer stupidity and inexperienced drivers.

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julienjj@reddit

everytime you make something idiot proof, the world invent a better idiot.

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Ok-Shallot-6731@reddit

the door handles arent designed with safety in mind

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coffeeINJECTION@reddit

True enough. I will never buy a Tesla when it is run by Musk so it is of no concern to me. They have just become the default car of bad drivers and new drivers though.

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04limited@reddit

I think there was a study years ago that folks in high end luxury cars(s class, 7 series at the time) were more dangerous drivers because they felt safer in their cars ie they had nothing to lose in an accident because the car would protect them.

So basically when you tell people the car is safe, they tend to believe they’re invincible. A lot of people don’t realize most impacts above 55mph have a high injury risk due to physics. They think they were doing 70mph before the accident and survived it’s all good, but failed to realize slamming on the brakes probably slowed it down to 40 before impact.

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Ok-Shallot-6731@reddit

Musk has tons of bots and cult followers who constantly try to defend the brand, even when clear evidence is presented like in this article.

Model Y 4x more deadly than the average!

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AmNoSuperSand52@reddit

Are you implying they faked their crash tests?

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Saskatchewon@reddit

Tesla's cars typically perform towards the top of the pack during crash testing.

The issues aren't the vehicles themselves (to a point) but the drivers they attract. Tesla advertises its vehicles of basically being able to drive themselves, and people take that literally. It's a combination of Tesla drivers not paying attention along the fact that they offer a ridiculous amount of power and acceleration at a relatively affordable price. A Model 3 Long Range can be had for around $50k, and has a faster 0-60 than a Ford Mustang GT. Combine that with drivers who are overly reliant on the car avoiding accidents for them, and you're going to have problems.

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hi_im_bored13@reddit

It’s not really clear evidence towards any brand. If it was reflective of the cars, the 911, C8, and CRV Hybrid should be recalled immediately (4.8x, 4.6x, and 4.6x the average, the model y is 3.7x the average)

If anything, as the article mentions, it reflects more on the type of drivers that car attracts. And I think anyone here will tell you - tesla drivers are awful

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Kruzat@reddit

Imagine not knowing the difference between a safe car and a safe driver

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AmNoSuperSand52@reddit

The article covers this

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Snoo93079@reddit

I think you might be confusing a couple different pieces of information. Teslas do really well in crash testing. But also they give normies a LOT of power that they can easily abuse, causing high fatality rates.

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GIMMESOMDORITOS@reddit

The average person is nowhere near ready for how much power these EVs make. No amount of driving assists on the planet can save you from having too much car for your own good.

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bullet50000@reddit

I feel like it's worth looking at the top 10 cars on the actual list, and you can kinda deduce what makes the top of the list

Hyundai Venue
Corvette
Mitsubishi Mirage
Porsche 911
Honda CRV Hybrid
Tesla Model Y
Mirage G4
Buick Encore GX
Kia Forte
Buick Envision

Why that's worth it is it comes down to 2 things: cars often driven quite irresponsibly (the Corvette and the 911), and cars that are bought as "Appliance cars"/Definitely bought by people to be "a generic car to get me around" (The Venue, the Mirages, the CRV, the Buicks). Tesla being high in this registry makes a lot of sense because it's often bought by both groups, as the car as an appliance people buy the low tier ones, and the irresponsible drivers often buy the Performance version.

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llamacohort@reddit

It’s also worth mentioning that the lowest horsepower Tesla is a Model Y RWD with a little under 300hp.

So when you average for the company and it’s being compared to other companies that are pumping out vehicles like a Chevy Trax with 137hp, then you are going to have a group that has a much higher ability to cause damage.

I’m sure that per mile driven, companies like Ferrari would also have a terrible track record.

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hundredjono@reddit

Corvette at number 2 is BS, all these old guys aren't driving their Corvettes like maniacs

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bullet50000@reddit

You have obviously never met a 50 year old desperate to be young again. Also with the C8, lotsa younger people are buying them, as well as C5s and C6s as autocross cars

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hundredjono@reddit

Bruh lmao Corvette owners across all gens are the slowest drivers on the road 🤣🤣

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yoloxxbasedxx420@reddit

Teslas are also driven a lot as Ubers.

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Geofferz@reddit

Such a bs tesla bait headline. Infuriating.

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Saskatchewon@reddit

With the Buicks, and CR-V, the ages of the average drivers likely play a really big role. Those are all very popular models among the elderly. I don't think I've ever met someone under retirement age who owns a modern Buick. My great aunt, my significant other's grandparents, and my elderly neighbor; all over 80 and all driving CR-Vs.

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biggsteve81@reddit

Encore GX is also popular for parents to buy for teenagers because they are affordable.

Expect the new Chevy Trax to make this list in a couple of years. Parents who bought the old one obviously hated their kids.

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caseyjosephine@reddit

I got my CR-V from my parents, who are in their 70s.

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Kavani18@reddit

My boyfriend owns a modern Buick at 20 lol. It’s actually pretty nice

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thegooddoctorben@reddit

This is the best analysis. Also, some of the cheaper crossovers here are driven by young drivers/teenagers who think they are invincible and that everyone else around them will drive predictably.

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frankztn@reddit

I have a dollar that the q50 hits top 10 in the next couple of years. It’s incredibly cheap horsepower for a young adult, the q50 subreddit is filled with “is the q50 a good first car” 😂

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vdek@reddit

The metric they used is Cars per Billion Vehicle Miles).

Porsche and corvette owners aren’t putting a huge amount of miles on their cars, but when they do, they likely do it more dangerously.

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bullet50000@reddit

and on top of that, with how a lot of the cars super up high are either EVs with the Tesla or the super small cars (Venue, Mirages, Buick Encore), stuff that justifiably can be a city scoot-about primarily. They'll do some highway but probably not a lot, meaning much fewer miles driven, and much less highway experience, leading to more accidents on highways/at fatal speeds.

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mishap1@reddit

A Mitsubishi Mirage weighs \~200lb less than a Miata. Even if the people driving them are very safe and experienced drivers, a car like that vs. a 5,000lb+ pickup truck is going to be more likely fatal than handing Grandma the keys to the 911 without her bifocals and sending her on her way onto Highway 130.

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bgroins@reddit

So, this basically?

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skeeter04@reddit

And hence high insurance rates

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austinlambert03@reddit

Not difficult when you have a really low accident rate. If all vehicles have the same chance of being in a fatal accident and one brand has a significantly lower chance of being in an accident, the percentage of fatal accidents would be much higher. Don’t think the type of accident a vehicle is involved in skews much between brands.

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JazzerguySATX@reddit

It’s called awareness. Love my Model 3. Of course, I’m 70 and don’t have the impulse to drive like the idiot I was at 30. When I do need to move, however, I can and do …

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Sure_Painting_8325@reddit

I have owned a Model 3 for three years. It is fun to drive. Unfortunately, at 79 years of age I find it dangerous to drive. Imagine being required to text on your phone while driving (illegal). Now imagine a giant smartphone attached to the middle of the dash at an angle to the driver and that you have to look away from the road and then read and hit a small dot on the screen with one finger while driving. It is a recipe for disaster. I'm selling.

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Nomad624@reddit

The fact that in order to get AWD, you need to get a dual motor model that does 0-60 in the low 4s, and there's no engine noise to express the level of speed and performance, AND the excessive tech and distractions inside and this absolutely checks out. Carmakers need to stop being lazy, and offer buttons on their EV's and making AWD powertrains that aren't insanely quick.

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GodLovesUglySong@reddit

On the Model 3 and Model Y EVERYTHING is located on the center screen. If it goes out, you can't see how fast you're going, what's wrong with the car (all the maintenance indicators are there), GPS etc.

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Nomad624@reddit

Yup, its why I stopped by dad from getting a 3.

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dr_moon_sloth@reddit

Saw a guy dead asleep in his Tesla doing 70mph on the PA turnpike las weekend.

This headline doesn’t surprise me at all.

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CestKougloff@reddit

All the idiots that used to drive 3 series beamers now have a Tesla. These results follow…

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HoraceGrand@reddit

Every Tesla driver I see looks like a scared aloof moron

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Nine-Fingers1996@reddit

On the local news this morning. Tesla crashes into another parked Tesla, burst into flames and both occupants died.

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Rodzp@reddit

90% or Tesla drivers are find on a road are absolute maniacs so makes sense

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yoloxxbasedxx420@reddit

What I want to know is how much of those fatalities are passengers in Teslas vs other car.

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LCHMD@reddit

Put overpowered cars in the hands of terribly educated drivers and that’s what you’ll get.

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dinkygoat@reddit

It's fucking Schrodinger's Prius all over again. It's both the most grandpa car on the road and the most erratic Uber driver car on the road.

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mortalomena@reddit

When I test drove a couple electric cars, I was easily accelerating at double rate compared to an ICE car, its just so effortless with instant throttle response.

It for sure is a risk for bad/inexperienced drivers used to sluggish ICE vehicles or sporty vehicles that go ROAR when you go fast, to be suddenly rapidly accelerating silently in an EV and not realizing how fast they are going.

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00espeon00@reddit

So many people that have never driven a Tesla in this thread, or participated in discussions with tesla owners.

It’s still so funny how many years behind people are with their knowledge of a Tesla.

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Reddit_Killed_3PAs@reddit

I’m not a particular “fan” of Tesla, but my parents have one and it’s honestly been a great car to drive.

“If you look for problems, you’ll find them.”

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ulfOptimism@reddit

How about a correlation with power?

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JurboVolvo@reddit

Probably causing plenty of accidents also. The camera based assisted driving relies on blinding everyone oncoming.

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lambda_lol@reddit

Thank god.

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fobbyk@reddit

Ok so I actually drove one and needed to brake hard in model 3. The brake felt so different that I almost crashed. Mind you, I learned how to properly brake from track events. If it was my mom or my friends who don’t track, they would have crashed.

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wanderer8722@reddit

You can get in trouble with a Tesla. Rented a Model 3 dual motor, the equivalent of power to an ICE is about 400hp maybe not alot but enough to either get you a ticket or death

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ethicalsolipsist@reddit

I don't think non-enthusiasts should be able to just buy high powered cars. You should have to wrench on a car for a couple of years and have some track time before you're allowed to own one.

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SyntheticOne@reddit

"Judge, my client was NOT driving drunk, the car was driving itself!"

- Defense attorney pleading ignorance

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adwrx@reddit

Yeah because people drive like complete idiots in them. High speed launches and complete disregard for road laws

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tech01x@reddit

No, this is a "study" based on the NHTSA FARS database:
https://www.nhtsa.gov/research-data/fatality-analysis-reporting-system-fars

If you look through this data carefully, you'll realize that this data is very spotty. It is so spotty that conclusions cannot be drawn from it.

Likely Tesla's are over represented in this data because of automated reporting and the requirement that Tesla provide data because of L2 ADAS, which Tesla provides. Most auto manufacturers with L2 ADAS do not have any means to collect data, and therefore they are not represented.

Also, from iSeeCar's methodology:

iSeeCars analyzed fatality data from the U.S. Fatality Analysis Reporting System (FARS). Only cars from model years 2018-2022 in crashes that resulted in occupant fatalities between 2017 and 2022 (the latest year data was available) were included in the analysis. To adjust for exposure, the number of cars involved in a fatal crash were normalized by the total number of vehicle miles driven, which was estimated from iSeeCars’ data of over 8 million vehicles on the road in 2022 from model years 2018-2022. Heavy-duty trucks and vans, models not in production as of the 2024 model year, and low-volume models were removed from further analysis.

This normalization step is very suspect.

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mishap1@reddit

What does L2 ADAS have to do with fatalities? Tesla doesn't know someone was killed unless NHTSA or law enforcement asks them for data. Even if someone has the incredibly horrible job of watching streams of every bad airbag crash of Teslas and trying to determine if that person was killed, that's still predicated that the car is intact enough to stream the data out.

The FARS data set predates all electronic data capture and the miles data from iSeeData is not from NHTSA. Their normalization process of dividing by miles driven if Tesla is fully reporting miles compared to others would mean their fatalities rate goes down and not up. E.g., if Kia doesn't send all miles driven data, the deaths associated with their cars (captured by police reports) reduces the denominator and increases the death rate / billion miles so it'd be much higher than Tesla.

If iSeeCars gets registration/maintenance/insurance data for miles, they get pretty good snapshots of aggregate miles/year. Not saying this study is correct but they published it and I'm sure Elon would be suing pretty quickly if they did anything intentionally deceptive.

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tech01x@reddit

No, the FARS data set is NHTSA… and it the reporting is very spotty. Tesla’s data collection required by NHTSA also feeds into it.

ISeeCars is merely pulling data from FARS, but the mileage info is for the data normalization is also not reliable.

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mishap1@reddit

I said the miles data isn't from NHTSA FARS. It's from iSeeCars which is a data aggregator.

More miles reduces the death rate. They take the sum of deaths associated with a particular model years (NHTSA FARS) / total miles associated with that model/years (from their data - insurance, registrations, etc.).

If they somehow biased the sample by somehow grabbing data of only people who all drive their 911s 50k/yr, that would drive the death rate down and not up. If Tesla and Kia actually have the same death and miles driven but Tesla reports all their data out and iSeeCars consumes it, but Kia somehow only gets four guys who collectively drive their Kias 2k/yr (they would then multiply out by the Kias sold those years), then the Kia's death rate would be many times higher than Teslas.

I'm not saying their methodology is right or wrong. I'm saying your argument is. Tesla doesn't tell NHTSA how many people died in their cars. They may contribute on miles data but more complete miles means it's more accurate not that it's over/under-reported.

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tech01x@reddit

They contribute accident data, and when they know, fatality data, as required by NHTSA.

As a result, there is a much more complete set of Tesla data in FARS than for most other automakers, including fatality data.

The numerator is higher.

The problem with the denominator is also how spotty it is - and it only comes from insurance data. So if Tesla doesn't share their data with Tesla insurance, the denominator is unreasonably low.

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mishap1@reddit

Tesla does not contribute fatalities data to FARS. FARS is based on state and local law enforcement reporting of fatal crashes. It's a federal requirement.

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tech01x@reddit

Under certain circumstances, which I mentioned, the data cannot be sent back.

I have seen the data sets and the Tesla data is far more complete… have you looked? The data in the NHTSA reporting requirements is making it into FARS.

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mishap1@reddit

I will reiterate again, FARS does not take Tesla data. I gave you the link that states clearly what goes into the report.

"FARS data are obtained solely from the States’ existing documents:

Police Crash Reports
Crash Report Supplements
State Vehicle Registration Files
State Driver Records
State Roadway Classification Data
Death Certificates
Toxicology Reports
Emergency Medical Service Reports "

https://www.nhtsa.gov/crash-data-systems/fatality-analysis-reporting-system

Tesla does not do any of this at all. Their data is far less complete. Tesla literally has no clue someone died unless they get a call from the local law enforcement agency looking for data. They can't call a hospital and figure out if a passenger in one of their cars died.

That is not to say this data is perfect. It is subject to the quality of the information provided by the states but it is responsibility of multiple people to provide this data and it is far more comprehensive than telematics that Tesla captures. This is data provided from police reports. It makes no assumptions of fault, of brand, or anything else other than the make and model car that was in a fatal crash where the person could have taken up to 30 days to die in the hospital. It has no dependencies on telematics uplinks or airbag data. It has no agenda and no narrative.

Show me proof that anything from Tesla makes it in FARS. Otherwise, you are grasping at straws to rationalize this with your positive view of Tesla. I know you think it hurts your profits but lets be honest, Tesla stock has nothing to do with the performance of their vehicles at this point.

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Bookandaglassofwine@reddit

Why wouldn’t the headline be about the Hyundai model with the highest fatality rate?

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biggsteve81@reddit

A super affordable small car that parents buy for teenage drivers? It is completely unsurprising.

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Stunning_Bird6106@reddit

Would you find that headline notable? Or is it more surprising to find a brand where the most basic models are famous for significantly advanced safety features to have the highest brand rate?

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swagginpoon@reddit

Sir you are on reddit

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Capable-Reaction8155@reddit

wait, I thought it was the opposite of this?!

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dam_sharks_mother@reddit

JFC...it's a non-stop circle-jerk with these car brand stereotypes.

My car is not my personality. I have a 911 GT3, a Tesla Model 3, and a Lexus SUV. Does that mean I have split personalities?

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Caysman2005@reddit

It means you double suck at driving! Please give up your license now or buy a Mazda.

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radiantskie@reddit

Triple personalities

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TheOtherMatt@reddit

You all have split personalities.

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Stunning_Bird6106@reddit

I wonder if it's almost hard not to get distracted in a Tesla.

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LC-Dookmarriot@reddit

Probably because they’re blinding all oncoming traffic at night with their ridiculous headlights

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DiffusedSky24@reddit

Too many dummies looking at the phone

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rasslinjobber@reddit

Deregulation Of Goddamn Everything

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gsasquatch@reddit

Might be something like this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Tesla_Autopilot_crashes

Most are blamed on the driver. Driver should have seen that semi crossing the road a couple seconds before they drove under it and got beheaded or seen the fire truck stopped with flashing lights on a clear day.

Wouldn't actually take too many incidents to skew the rate numbers in a brand that hasn't made all that many cars.

NTSB has been a bit miffed about this stuff, but they are rumored to be getting a new boss, that might be a little more pro-Tesla. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-submits-partial-response-us-auto-safety-probe-memo-2021-10-25/

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vogueboy@reddit

List here: https://www.iseecars.com/most-dangerous-cars-study#v=2024

The Hyundai Venue, Chevy Corvette, and Mitsubishi Mirage are the three deadliest cars on American roads, based on fatal accidents per mile traveled. The Porsche 911, Honda CR-V Hybrid, Tesla Model Y, Mitsubishi Mirage G4, Buick Encore, Kia Forte, and Buick Envision round out the top 10 deadliest vehicles, with fatal accident rates between 2.8 and 4.9 times the average.

[-]

bonerJR@reddit

There is no more common left lane camper than an absent Telsa driver

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Dan-Flashes@reddit

I have a pretty low opinion of the quality of Tesla products but I have a feeling user error is a big factor here. Everyone I know who drives a Tesla is someone I would never get in a car with willingly.

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Arnas_Z@reddit

Absolutely. Teslas seem to attract the worst drivers.

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ikilledtupac@reddit

As a Tesla owner it’s because the car is distracting to use, and FSD is dangerous and should not be legal.

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Green-Foundation-702@reddit

As someone who has test driven the last gen model 3 performance I can see why teslas are so dangerous. They are supercar level fast but they have the handling prowess of base corolla. They are simply not properly designed to handle that amount of power.

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ProbablySatirical@reddit

Basically it’s a combination of performance cars, old people/NPC cars, and shit boxes. Pretty much the shittiest drivers we deal with all day.

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AKADriver@reddit

Given Tesla's big investment in driver assists and "self driving," I'd be really interested in a dive into how much real-world safety has been improved (or not) by active collision avoidance systems. My admittedly biased hunch is that they aren't working in the real world, even as they march on to become standard/required there has never really been any established criteria for how well they work, and I think they often encourage distraction either by creating it themselves with warning chimes and screen messages, or allowing driver attention to lapse.

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Jslatts942@reddit

No way lmao, i need to read this.

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Humble-Culture3133@reddit

Using the self driving mode and wearing AI goggles.

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swollennode@reddit

Pretty soon, all studies will magically show that Tesla has the lowest fatal accidents.

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NorthDriver8927@reddit

Anything that accelerates 0-60 in less than 4 seconds has a higher risk of having fatal accidents. Especially when it weighs as much as a diesel pickup and has a hipster behind the wheel.

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WatchStoredInAss@reddit

Easy. 1) Too many distractions on that giant ass touchscreen. 2) Too much power.

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shdujssnensisishs@reddit

So TLDR, the average Tesla owner sucks at driving?

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kimbabs@reddit

If my math is right about this, the way they normalized this data is by dividing number of fatal accidents by total miles driven.

The thing to note with this methodology is any cars that are very common yet not driven very long distances could be over represented. The Model Y is the best selling car in the US recently, but most people do not drive long distances in EVs. Corvettes are also at the top and are probably the most sold sports car that is also driven the least miles.

This still says something about driving behavior given number of fatalities in fewer driven miles, but if I’m right, I imagine fatalities in given vehicles were probably something like 100 at most for some of these vehicles. The bigger takeaway IMO is how many fatalities get stacked up in lower production cars in so few miles.

There maybe should have been an additional version of their formula that also weighted number of these vehicles on the road. I would imagine it tells a different story.

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mishap1@reddit

Model Y averages more miles than the average US car based on Tesla's data.

https://insideevs.com/news/587352/tesla-modely-average-annual-mileage-us/

Corvette has the least.

https://www.iseecars.com/cars-highest-average-mileage-study

The math works. Per mile driven, the Tesla (which puts a shit load miles) gets more people killed.

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clickmagnet@reddit

Maybe 2.3 second 0-60 times in the hands of the masses was a misstep.

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thatgymdude@reddit

Not surprised when I have lost count of the amount of times I have seen people text while using autopilot or worse even sleeping at the wheel because they think the car can drive itself. It is basically the new Altima for people with higher credit scores.

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jtith@reddit

Whenever I'm driving behind a Tesla, I always feel like I'm putting myself at more risk because of their regenerative braking. The brake lights don't light up when they are coasting behind another car. I would have to look for signs of braking from the car ahead of the Tesla, whether it's from the light shining on the road, through the Tesla's windows, or looking past the Tesla. I'm usually putting an extra car distance of space in between myself and a Tesla compared to another car because i just need to react to them according to their behavior.

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Conscious-Lobster60@reddit

The taillights activate with regen and OPD— I have a Tesla and a gas Volvo with ACC. You’re probably not used to how cars with ACC coast and avoid using the brakes in traffic until they need to.

In slow moving stop-and-go traffic both systems remind me of driving stick shift, they keep a set distance, and never get on the brakes unless necessary, they glide, similar to how you actively avoid coming to a stop and having to engage the clutch in stop-in-go.

It’s crazy the amount of people that ride ass in stop-and-go then go hard on the brakes, then hard on the gas ♾️

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HailOfHarpoons@reddit

Better than people edging forward at speeds lower than the first gear.

Also safer, since you spend less time moving.

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Conscious-Lobster60@reddit

No ACC just makes huge “brake waves” of phantom traffic. You get full stop-and-go ACC standard on a Impreza/Civic/Corolla— it is the best thing ever for traffic.

“Three lanes of 12 vehicles each were tested on a closed high-speed oval simulating a highway. The lead vehicles in each lane slowed from 60 to 40 mph to mimic a traffic disturbance. Without the ACC technology, the drivers each braked harder than the vehicle ahead, which led to a braking wave that became more pronounced further down the traffic stream. In other words, the non-ACC drivers amplified the initial braking event, in some cases to the point where traffic slowed to a crawl.”

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2018/06/29/ford-vanderbilt-phantom-traffic-jams.html

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HailOfHarpoons@reddit

Sure, with automatics, I can see that.

But I don't want to rape my clutch for 15 minutes.
If the street is one lane, I'll just wait and then move when I can actually drive in 1st.

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ToastyMozart@reddit

Yep, that's pretty much regen-influenced driving habits in general. Light turned red 300m away? May as well start slowing down now.

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jtith@reddit

Thanks for the specifics from your experiences. The constant hard braking behind them is why i feel like i have selective bias towards this. It's just unsettling and there's the need for me to adjust to a common pattern during my commute.

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ng731@reddit

Not true, the brake lights do turn on during regenerative braking.

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jtith@reddit

It's just my personal observation since I'm not familiar with driving a car that use regenerative braking, nor have i driven a car with that mechanism. Just from my experiences with my daily commute, their braking behavior has been many seconds late compared to the car ahead while coasting with no lights turning on to warn the other cars they are also decelerating. Their distance to the car ahead is very short as well, which is why I'm under the impression that they aren't normally braking.

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Animanganime@reddit

The brake lights automatically engage when the regen braking slows the vehicle down by .2 G or more.

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Subiemobiler@reddit

Every Tesla is a Sports Car, but the owners are not often enthusiasts.

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kevwonds@reddit

so the nissan altima of electric cars

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Graywulff@reddit

It’s a feature not a bug. /s

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redskellington@reddit

This is not a real study. It's a guess depending on very questionable data plus guesses about miles driven.

Also, ranking by Brand doesn't mean much since it depends heavily on the product mix.

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_pout_@reddit

If you buy a car for its utility alone, it's a sure bet that you don't care for driving. For some people this means just not caring but being good drivers. For others, this means they don't want to drive because they shouldn't.

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Renfred@reddit

Fast as fuck + shotty build quality = no surprise.

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oldandintheway99@reddit

Cool

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redneckcommando@reddit

There's probably a strong correlation with the kind of people that drive Teslas.

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OpenJelly1437@reddit

Well Teslas are actually much safer than most vehicles on the road,i believe the Y has the highest rating of any vehicle ever tested.

That said,i just watched a youtube video of a review of a Lamborghini Aventador and my Tesla family sedan is faster to 60mph.....and i do drive like a madman.

Who would've thought that slapping supercar perfromance on VERY affordable family sedans /suvs will cause more crashes?

[-]

ChirpyRaven@reddit

"Well akshually…."

Thanks, user who only comes to this subreddit to defend their favorite brand. Your contribution is appreciated.

[-]

OpenJelly1437@reddit

Show me where the facts touched you.

Have some extra dose of cope on the way out,thx.

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ChirpyRaven@reddit

Way "out"? I'm not going anywhere, I'm in this sub to talk about all kinds of different vehicles.

You're welcome to return to r/teslainvestorsclub and come back to defend the brand next time anything even slightly negative is posted.

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OpenJelly1437@reddit

How did i defend Tesla? all i said is that the Y is the safest vehicle ever tested in the history of the NHTSA and i guess you took personal offence to that.

And i mentioned that my model 3 family sedan is faster than a Lamborghini supercar to 60.I did not lie anywhere,nor did i "DEFEND" Tesla.I just provided insight as a Tesla owner :) You did none of that,you legitimately added zero information to the conversation

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ChirpyRaven@reddit

How did i defend Tesla?

Post is about Tesla's fatal accident rate. You come in with "Well Teslas are actually much safer than most vehicles on the road"

I'm not "personally offended", I'm just quite tired of the same group of folks that pop into this sub only when Tesla is mentioned and do nothing but argue with people about how good Tesla is.

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swagginpoon@reddit

The post is about fatal accident rates. However the study shows tesla in charts titled the most dangerous cars. You’re wrong for lashing out like a child.

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IWantToPlayGame@reddit

Welp, I just bought a Tesla last week.

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Ancient_Wisdom_Yall@reddit

Tesla drivers are the new BMW drivers.

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CantSeeShit@reddit

Its like if BMW drivers, Lexus RX350 drivers, and Altima drivers made a baby

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bgroins@reddit

For all the shit BMW drivers get, they're notably missing from this list.

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moonRekt@reddit

A nicely spec’d BMW is too valuable, if I were to crash mine it would be nearly impossible to replace. A Tesla is completely dispensable. Also the fact that Tesla drivers expect nanny aids to save them

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DrWatson90@reddit

Read, then think

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subsolar@reddit

Guess throwing it on autopilot and dicking around on your phone isn't a good idea

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ode_to_glorious@reddit

I literally watched a man in a Tesla going in the fast lane with two hands on his phone while sitting in the drivers seat. I couldn’t trust my cars lane departure or adaptive cruise control enough to be that confidently on my phone.

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HighHokie@reddit

Inexpensive, high performance, and popular. Without digging into the data it certainly seems plausible.

Is the data normalized?

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EmergencyRace7158@reddit

Well they're made by unhappy workers in a tent with glue and lack any advanced sensors needed for driver assistance. Why would this be surprising?

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Top_Midnight_2225@reddit

Stupid fast acceleration. Big power. False sense of speed due to no engine noises.

Easy to travel fast and under estimate one's speed and over estimate one's skill to driving at that high speed.

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JDubStep@reddit

Reliance on safety features have made drivers less safe. People put far too much faith in "autopilot" and FSD, which are both fucking horrible. The lack of physical controls makes it less safe. Having a massive, distracting screen makes it less safe. Having incredible amounts of power that people aren't used to makes it less safe.

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Final_Winter7524@reddit

And with Elon in government power, FSD Unlimited will be unleashed on the rest of us and kill even more people.

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BipedalWurm@reddit

The entity in control of the vehicle matters the most, this is an interesting look at the general safety of the people who would choose a brand.

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nigevellie@reddit

Neat

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DM725@reddit

That feeling we all get when a Tesla is next to us on the road is merely our survival instincts.

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longgamma@reddit

White model 3 is the new white bmw 3 series

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Aeig@reddit

People love the 3 series.

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Tough-Relationship-4@reddit

Just wait until the department of Government Efficiency removes all NTSB regulations.

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moonRekt@reddit

Does that mean we can import any car from abroad like the M3 wagon? Cuz I’m all for it. At this point when you have up to 4 ton EVs that go 0-60 in under 3 seconds that guard rails are not able to contain, what even is the point of NTSB?

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mrcheyl@reddit

Yeah that’s fine and all but I don’t like their drivers. They all seem so detached and way too distracted.

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DepecheMode92@reddit

Tesla drivers are very aloof whether it be the self driving or generally just tuned out personality that buys them. The Prius sitting in left lane going 10mph under limit has been replaced by the Model 3 and Y.

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moonRekt@reddit

I like Teslas on I70 in the mountains—their range is too negatively impacted by going speed of left lane traffic so they get and stay in the right lane behind a semi (maybe it’s autopilot)

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kudo-5000@reddit

Honestly, it’s because the drivers generally aren’t paying enough attention and the cars have crazy acceleration.

I live in Teslaland - I will see upwards of 20 on short drives to the store. People just think the car will save them, so they forget they’re also piloting a hunk of metal that can kill them if something goes wrong.

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OR_Miata@reddit

Tesla’s vehicles have the highest fatal accident rate among all car brands in America, according to a recent iSeeCars study that analyzed data from the U.S. Fatality Analysis Reporting System (FARS).

I have a feeling this system will be found to be “inefficient” and cut by the new administration

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newsreadhjw@reddit

I think this is more a marketing issue than a car design issue. Teslas are marketed towards commuters who don’t want to pay attention to driving and who are then tricked into thinking the “self-driving” features are a lot more capable than they actually are. Idiotic, incompetent drivers are more likely to buy a Tesla. This is what happens. I am surrounded by these things where I live (Seattle area) and Tesla drivers are easily the worst drivers on the road. I fucking hate these cars on sight now because of the way people drive them.

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SerenadeOfWater@reddit

“Self Driving” is a 10k upgrade that 90% of Tesla buyers skip when they order the car. No one buys an expensive car and is excited to “not drive it”.

The reality is that Tesla enables easy access to acceleration and instant power that was once reserved for super cars, and when you give that to less experienced drivers, or distracted drivers, accidents happen.

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newsreadhjw@reddit

Every Tesla driver I’ve talked to talks about how they in one way or another don’t have to pay attention when they’re stuck in traffic because the car drives itself. The only appeal I hear from them is having the ability to not be engaged while driving. And I don’t hear people talking as much about how fast they are. I’m way more likely to see Tesla drivers being super passive, slow and indecisive in traffic.

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wip30ut@reddit

if you look at the study list they also mention Kia vehicles. And the CRV Hybrid has 4.6x the risk of other vehicles! The top 25 has a lot of budget-friendly models like the Forte, Prius, Versa that probably rack up a lot of miles over high-traffic congested arteries, and that in turn increases the chances for major accidents.

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RhenfusaFerox@reddit

Elon Musk soon to be in charge of NHTSA...

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Silent_nutsack@reddit

One look at the demographic driving teslas lol

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akmacmac@reddit

This looks at fatal accidents on a per mile driven basis, which as the article points out, mostly tells us about the drivers who choose Teslas. I would like to see a study that looks at the rate of accidents that do happen and how many of those are fatal. That would tell you more about the inherent safety of the vehicles themselves.

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ToastyMozart@reddit

Fatalities per accident could get skewed by a few things too. A car could score high because they're worse at protecting the passengers in a collision, or it could score high because the safety intervention systems prevent most accidents that aren't caused by extraordinarily dangerous stupidity. An adaptive cruise or emergency braking system stops a lot of would-be fender benders from making the list, for example.

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dirty_cuban@reddit

analyzed data from the U.S. Fatality Analysis Reporting System (FARS).

Why do I have a funny feeling this federal program is about to be efficiency'd away in the near future?

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TheseClick@reddit

From what I’ve seen, Tesla drivers use the turn signal as often as BMW drivers do. It’s a rare treat to see one being used on either brands.

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Rattle_Can@reddit

i wonder if there is a break out of occupant fatalities vs pedestrians and other motorist fatalities

if teslas are safe for its occupants and just lethal to people outside of it, that's still something

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nolongerbanned99@reddit

Well, at least they rank highest in something

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k_dubious@reddit

I fear no man. But that thing…

gestures to a white Model Y with a Student Driver sticker on the back

…it scares me.

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odelay42@reddit

Literally 50 of these in my parking garage at work since RTO started, hahaha.

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Ok-Shallot-6731@reddit

Makes sense, Tesla door handles stop working in a crash and the occupants must use a separate mechanical release. Many people are not aware of this dangerous design and burn to death while trying to escape the crashed vehicle.

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Saskatchewon@reddit

Door handles might be to blame for maybe half a dozen deaths, but that's not enough to push them close to the top.

I think it's the combination of serious sports car levels of acceleration (a Model 3 Long Range has a faster 0-60 than a Ford Mustang GT), with drivers with zero performance driving experience who have been told that the cars will basically avoid accidents for them.

That's a dangerous combination.

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ArcticBP@reddit

What’s amazing is that not all of them even have a manual release for the rear doors

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theknyte@reddit

You would think if having electronic door latches, it should be required by law, that any impact that is hard enough to blow any airbag, then all the locks should default to open. Hell, have little charges in those too, that blow the doors open a second after impact or something.

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azurite--@reddit

Maybe you should actually read the article?

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Ok-Shallot-6731@reddit

i did, i am mentioning dangerous attributes Teslas have that increase the fatality numbers

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Bradymyhero@reddit

NPC car gets into accidents

No shit

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PieEnjoyer69@reddit

Big heavy vehicles that can go unreasonably fast? Who would have thought

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gumol@reddit

not really, heavier vehicles are safer (for its occupants).

You can see it in this study, small cars have higher fatality rates than big cars

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PieEnjoyer69@reddit

I’m thinking more about a situation where a Tesla floors it from 0 to 60 in three seconds right off a red light and ends up hitting a pedestrian.

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gumol@reddit

pedestrian deaths are not included in this study

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PieEnjoyer69@reddit

Ah ok

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Apprehensive_Fun8892@reddit

Every Tesla driver I know is the kind of person who panics if they have to so much as park along a curb. People who hate driving and don't take the required ownership of it to get good at it.

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Astramael@reddit

This checks out with my anecdata. I live in a place where Teslas are not very common, almost every single one I see is driven badly.

Sometimes they drive aggressively, but this isn’t the common case. Most of the time they are fully oblivious. Cutting people off, stopping in the middle of the road, driving slowly in the fast lane, not noticing the light has changed, etc.

In Canada they publish aggregate insurance data and Tesla is routinely one of the most expensive brands to insure. They break the data down a bit and it seems like a bunch of that cost comes from their high risk of being in accidents.

I have no explanation as to why, I don’t think it has much or anything to do with the car. I’ve driven Teslas and I didn’t suddenly become a bad driver. Although they are incredibly obnoxious to interact with, you can just pull over if you need to figure out how to operate a car function.

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BrainwashedHuman@reddit

I see them driving slow in the fast lane with occasional brake lights coming on, or turn signals that blink a few times for no reason. Pretty sure that’s either autopilot or FSD.

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DrZedex@reddit

Some of that insurance cost is just the repair costs. They're super expensive to fix, not all shops will work on them, and parts are frequently unavailable leading to huge downtime. This is a real headache for an insurance company, and it's why at least one just dropped the cybertruck altogether

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ArcticBP@reddit

I feel like it isn’t inherently the vehicle, but largely what it is used for - rideshares.

Rideshare drivers are usually distracted & not even from the area they’re driving in, and Teslas Ys are really popular for rideshare.

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JoshS1@reddit

The source article for the study doesn't list the full results. That's rather annoying. I would like to have seen the "worst" contrasted with the "best."

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DrZedex@reddit

I suppose that's next week's listicle

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DeeYumTofu@reddit

It’s because the car is too fucking fast. Back in my day you had to be a little skilled to handle a 4 second accelerating car, nowadays a random mom can grab one for 25k. It’s insane the amount of power these cars have for that low of a price.

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Mellemmial@reddit

Tesla's are purchased by people who wish their car would drive itself, i.e. people who don't want to pay attention and people who don't want to be engaged when they are driving.

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Lando_Sage@reddit

What's even more interesting is that though they sell a lot (relative to EV's), they are still only a small portion of vehicles on the road. So it seems that driving deaths are highly concentrated around Teslas.

Could be complacency, trusting the ADAS too much, thinking FSD is actually FSD, higher share of reckless driving, etc.

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animerobin@reddit

I wonder if it has anything to do with that giant iPad they put on the dashboard

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MaterialBat4762@reddit

Makes sense, elons comments make me want to slam into a guardrail I imagine the urge is even stronger when you realize you helped enable him.

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Nascarvick@reddit

Side note: I always laughed when I saw a car commercial and they say it’s the highest safety rated in its class. I always wanted to come out with my own car and be in a class of its own. Then I could always say it’s the highest safety rated in its class even if fatalities were at 90%.

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Beware_the_silent@reddit

Lot's of valuable information missing from this "study"

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saints21@reddit

Such as?

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Ok-Shallot-6731@reddit

I notice that you spend a lot of time defending Tesla online, perhaps that is affecting your judgement here?

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gumol@reddit

The top five most dangerous cars are the Hyundai Venue, Chevrolet Corvette, Mitsubishi Mirage, Porsche 911, and Honda CR-V Hybrid, with fatal accident rates nearly five times higher than the average vehicle

[-]

emeraldarcana@reddit

Original source: https://www.iseecars.com/most-dangerous-cars-study#v=2024

[-]

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