Thomas E. Kurtz, the inventor or BASIC, has passed
Posted by intelw1zard@reddit | programming | View on Reddit | 110 comments
Posted by intelw1zard@reddit | programming | View on Reddit | 110 comments
derailedthoughts@reddit
I am pretty sure this guy is responsible for the career of many developers who are now in their late thirties or older. I would have no idea what I would be doing now if I didn’t pull out a random book on BASIC for young children at a library as a kid
RIP.
Previous_Kale_4508@reddit
Late fifties and into their sixties indeed! We started with BASIC when it was a fun option on the PDP-11.
xxkvetter@reddit
I TA'd for him in the 80's--great guy and really smart. The version of BASIC he and Kemeny created was much more advanced and structured than the bastardized version found on early microcomputers. Check out TrueBasic.
RunDNA@reddit
Can you give us an anecdote?
mackerelscalemask@reddit
True BASIC, developed by John Kemeny and Thomas Kurtz (the creators of the original BASIC language), was more advanced than the BASIC included with the Commodore 64 (C64) in several key ways. Here’s an explanation of the differences:
Structured Programming
• True BASIC: Introduced structured programming features, such as IF...THEN...ELSE, FOR...NEXT, WHILE...WEND, and DO...LOOP constructs. This allowed for better-organized and more maintainable code. • C64 BASIC (Commodore BASIC 2.0): Relied heavily on line numbers and GOTO statements, which often led to “spaghetti code” that was difficult to read and debug.
No Line Numbers
• True BASIC: Did away with mandatory line numbers. Instead, it allowed for procedures and labels, making programs easier to write and understand. • C64 BASIC: Required line numbers for every command, which could make editing and organizing large programs cumbersome.
Built-in Graphics and Sound Support
• True BASIC: Included built-in support for graphics and sound commands, making it easier to create multimedia applications. • C64 BASIC: Had minimal built-in commands for graphics and sound. Users often had to resort to PEEK and POKE commands or assembly language for advanced features.
Advanced Data Structures
• True BASIC: Supported advanced data structures such as user-defined functions, subroutines, and multi-dimensional arrays. These features made it more suitable for complex programming tasks. • C64 BASIC: Had limited support for arrays and relied heavily on global variables, with no true subroutines or user-defined functions.
Portability
• True BASIC: Designed to be portable across different platforms, adhering to the ANSI standard for BASIC. This made it useful for developers who wanted their programs to run on multiple systems. • C64 BASIC: Was tied closely to the Commodore 64’s hardware, with many commands specific to the platform.
Error Handling
• True BASIC: Included better error handling mechanisms, making it easier to debug and recover from errors in programs. • C64 BASIC: Provided very basic error messages, which were often cryptic and unhelpful.
Development Environment
• True BASIC: Typically offered a more modern development environment with features like better text editing and debugging tools. • C64 BASIC: Lacked these conveniences, requiring programmers to work with a simple line editor.
In summary, True BASIC represented an evolution of the BASIC language with a focus on modern programming practices, portability, and ease of use, while C64 BASIC 2.0 was a minimalistic and hardware-specific implementation that reflected the constraints of the early 1980s.
mccalli@reddit
Other than line numbers, that sounds a lot like BBC BASIC from the BBC Microcomputer.
C64 BASIC wasn't written by Commodore. It was a very early Microsoft, and Trammel utterly schooled them on the deal.
Previous_Kale_4508@reddit
If you used the Edit ROM that came with the BBC Master series then you only needed to number target lines, i.e. lines that were the destination for
GOTO
,GOSUB
orRESTORE
. Eventually even those line numbers could be replaced by labels. That might have been 'Tube Basic' for when you had a second processor attached.cheesepuff07@reddit
thanks, chatgpt
gnorrn@reddit
If it doesn't have line numbers, is it even BASIC any more? :)
mackerelscalemask@reddit
Yeah, Visual Basic doesn’t require line numbers and is still in use and being updated in 2024: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_Basic_(.NET)
Matt3k@reddit
Everyone can tell this is ChatGPT dude
vplatt@reddit
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_BASIC:
Tbh I feel a bit cheated. I started with AppleBasic and then moved on to QBasic later. NOT at all the same as his intended version.
agumonkey@reddit
yeah the history is more involved, even pre basic influences like dasimco or dope
Omnes_mundum_facimus@reddit
I started on TrueBasic. The world seemed infinite with possibilities.
alphabytes@reddit
i started my journey with BASIC.. RIP Sir.
toyBeaver@reddit
F
Elegant_Mail@reddit
TI-Basic anyone? I started programming on the TI-83 calculator
kaiserpathos@reddit
FOR I = 1 TO 5: PRINT "Thank You, Mr Kurtz": NEXT I
neoporcupine@reddit
2024 END
josfaber@reddit
2024 GOTO 10
shevy-java@reddit
A rescue-goto before the END is surely in the code.
josfaber@reddit
2024 GOTO 10
misn0ma@reddit
I feel they could’ve had more fun with the headlines? The inventor of BASIC just hit the ultimate STOP and went to the great tape drive in the sky.
michel_v@reddit
BASIC introduced me to programming, RIP legend.
MooseBoys@reddit
Same, on a VTECH Power Pad!
tekanet@reddit
40 years ago I was typing things I couldn’t understand, in Basic.
Today, I’m still typing things I don’t understand, just with a different language.
Coffee_Ops@reddit
But at least they're understandable to your colleagues, right?
.....right?
vplatt@reddit
Well, they all use ChatGPT now to read the program to them, so ... sure. Sort of.
intelw1zard@reddit (OP)
the circle of life
Clackpot@reddit
Me too, on a Commodore PET, the early one with the green screen and the Fisher-Price square keys. Happy, happy days.
Tone2600@reddit
Often the reality of BASIC was simply POKEing machine code into memory - there wasn't actually that much BASIC in many programs.
michel_v@reddit
Green screen gang!
iainmcc@reddit
Yup. TRS-80, and David Lien's excellent book that came with the machine.
Markavian@reddit
I remember hitting the single file limit for programs on BASIC for windows because I didn't know how to split my code across multiple files.
https://usborne.com/gb/books/computer-and-coding-books
This was the book that got me into BASIC as a kid:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bxv0SsvibDMTYkFJbUswOHFQclE/view?usp=sharing&resourcekey=0-ffScR4l9gOJrDiFw5Kb5fg
tekko001@reddit
That's an amazing book for learning programming, I wish I had something like that as a kid :)
Fiennes@reddit
This happened to me! I was using HiSoft Basic 2 on the Amiga and was writing my own terminal for accessing BBS sites and the like (remember X, Y, & Z Modem protocols?!) Things started getting weird. Being the 90s you could still get hold of a human within minutes and the guy was like "So, why is this all in one file, can't you just split it out?"
Oh.
shevy-java@reddit
Same here. It was also quite cool to write BASIC. I would not use it these days, but it was really nice to have a hardcopy paper set of instructions, typing it into the computer and seeing things happen.
michel_v@reddit
I learned BASIC from the book that came with my Amstrad CPC when I was 10, it was indeed magic to type (also my first experience with typing) lines from a book (and later magazines!) and see results on a screen. Wasn’t long until I started adding simple Z80 assembly to my code too, Amstrad’s brand of BASIC made that easy.
kcrwfrd@reddit
Mistah Kurtz—he dead.
QuickBASIC@reddit
Sad day.
reznorms@reddit
10 FOR I=1 TO 96: PRINT "Hello world!": NEXT I
20 PRINT "... goodbye, Thomas E. Kurtz."
30 END
visualdescript@reddit
My first ever programming was using the YABASIC compiler on the ps2 demo disk with dad. Been in software engineering for nearly 2 decades now.
Rest easy Thomas. Quite a legacy.
ImClearlyDeadInside@reddit
And here I thought you were joking with the name “YABASIC”
visualdescript@reddit
If I remember correctly it stood for "Yet Another BASIC" Compiler. Wrote the code with the ps2 controller, haha. Did your classic hello world then also drew a sort of smiley face using mathematical functions. Blew my mind as a 12 year old.
pjmlp@reddit
As posted on HN as well,
Like many BASIC was my first programming language, Timex 2068 BASIC to be more exact.
Followed by GW-BASIC and Turbo BASIC.
Not only it was my entry path into the computing world as a kid, it also showed me how to do systems programming in a language kind of safe, alongside Z80 and 8086 Assembly.
Turbo Pascal was the next in the learning path, after those BASIC variants.
Many thanks to Dr. Kutz and Dr.Kemeny, and those that built upon their work, for setting me free into the computing world without being tainted C is the true and only path to systems programming.
lood9phee2Ri@reddit
Timex 2068 being an odd USA (and a few other) market variant of the Sinclair ZX Spectrum. Wasn't nearly as successful as the ZX Spectrym was in Europe, but actually improved some things - particularly graphically (8x1 attribute color, hires mode enough for 80-column text. Definite pity later spectrum models didn't add that) and sonically (had an AY chip, but later spectrum models did add that).
FWIW ZEsarUX will emulate the Timex 2068 among others and not just the normal Sinclair ZX Spectrum models.
lonelyroom-eklaghor@reddit
I myself learnt to code and explore by installing a BASIC interpreter, both the GW-BASIC one and the QBasic one. I learnt that for two years only. But if something has taught me a lot about programming after Logo, it's BASIC.
ziplock9000@reddit
RIP. I cut my teeth on BASIC and used about 5 different versions. The last one being VB6 where I made a full 3D game engine, MMO client/server environment and a lot of physics simulation software.
zyzzogeton@reddit
I first used BASIC on an Atari 800 in 1980. The magic I felt back then put me on a path to a career and a life I might never have had without Kurtz's invention.
protomyth@reddit
The joy I had on an Atari 400 with BASIC seeing my first program run has sustained for all these years. Thanks Thomas, its been a blast.
Salamok@reddit
This man created and destroyed more developers than anyone in history.
instant-ramen-n00dle@reddit
Every year we lose more and more Greybeards. It makes me weep.
maurader1974@reddit
10 PRINT "RIP"
20 END
intelw1zard@reddit (OP)
10 PRINT "RIP"
20 GOTO 10
badmonkey0001@reddit
code_in_Vain@reddit
My Dad gave me a copy of the Basic Manual by Kemeny and Kurtz back in the 70's I remember chapters on Heuristics and Population Dynamics with rabbits v foxes. Good times.
mewt6@reddit
Oh the memories of qbasic on ms dos 5
pip25hu@reddit
QBasic was my first programming language, and despite the hysteria at the time, it did not "ruin" me me as a future programmer.
Rest in peace, and thanks for everything!
sandy-cracker@reddit
Same, honestly looking back on it, QBasic was such a great development environment: code editor, debugger, and documentation viewer all-in-one.
Nothing I’ve used since is as simple and powerful. We’ve lost our way.
ITwitchToo@reddit
I have very fond memories of learning English from just endlessly browsing the QBasic in-built help screens and always discovering something new and cool
joelhardi@reddit
I first learned on a C64 but I spent way too much time playing QBasic Gorillas on school computers, such good times
shevy-java@reddit
Depends. Did you pick up C++? :)
pip25hu@reddit
I mainly work with Java, JS/TS, Python and a bit of Rust at the moment.
bubbaholy@reddit
Rust, so hot right now.
mattindustries@reddit
Basic, Borland, Battlestar Galactica.
LeeRyman@reddit
Dammit is that how it happened?
mypetocean@reddit
The distinction between subroutines and functions in QBASIC influenced me when I got into JavaScript into what amounted to a personal discipline of distinguishing pure functions and impure functions way before I knew those terms from the FP space.
calsosta@reddit
It's a great language for learning the fundamentals and honestly being forced to work in QBasic with no mouse made me a very efficient programmer.
theavatare@reddit
I went qbasic to C and it was great for awhile.
Ysilla@reddit
RIP. The first computer video games I had were BASIC books. Had to type the whole game BASIC source code from them before being able to play. Fun times, and how I started learning my job.
RunDNA@reddit
To quote Conrad via T.S. Eliot:
What a beautiful legacy he leaves behind. Just as people like Jobs, Wozniak, and Jack Tramiel revolutionized the computer industry by bringing these expensive objects into suburban houses worldwide, Kurtz & Kemeny did something similar on the programming side, introducing regular people and kids to programming, turning what was strange and complex into something simple and understandable.
It takes genius to do that.
brlcad@reddit
Mistah Kurtz—he dead. A penny for the Old Guy
kindofajerk@reddit
GOTO heaven
dethnight@reddit
GOTO Legend
joelhardi@reddit
GOB's program will never END
intelw1zard@reddit (OP)
wild how he went from a simple office job to laundering money for a Mexican drug cartel and living in the Ozarks.
QuentinUK@reddit
“Mistah Kurtz – he dead”, TSE
cinyar@reddit
First Niklaus Wirth and now Kurtz. Sad year for programming legends. Hope Donald Knuth is doing well.
dontyougetsoupedyet@reddit
Knuth was born in 1938. He's pushing 87.
seriousnotshirley@reddit
I'm gonna have a Pumpkin Spice Latte in his honor; it's a Beginners All-purpose Seasonally Inspired Coffee drink.
hugazow@reddit
Thanks. I owe my career to him. Everything started with a Casio FX880p and a curious kid 🫡
tazebot@reddit
GOTO . . . .
thatsamiam@reddit
The first program I wrote was a program in Waterloo BASIC that converted units between each other.
He accomplished his goal of making programming accessible to others.
Using that knowledge I made a life for myself and my family from nothing.
Thank you
pinpinbo@reddit
Man, I am crying right now. BASIC and thus programming literally changed my life forever for the better.
janodusho@reddit
Rest in peace. Legends never die.
eviltwinfletch@reddit
RETURN
intelw1zard@reddit (OP)
He is safely in the cloud now
StarkAndRobotic@reddit
I THOUGHT IT WAS BILL GATES THE GOD OF AND OR NOT NAND XOR
deftware@reddit
You ding-dong. Microsoft QBasic was derived from BASIC, just like Applesoft BASIC, and all the other variants of BASIC.
StarkAndRobotic@reddit
BUT THE ONLY TRUE BASIC IS THE ONE MADE BY THE GOD OF BOOLEAN ALGEBRA, THE KING OF GATES! BILLIAM HENRY GATES THE SPECTACLED!
mypetocean@reddit
Read the room, man. This is a memorial post.
jonny_boy27@reddit
Which of them? Kurtz, the inventor, or BASIC?
balthisar@reddit
We were silly kids abusing the K-Mart display units, but those of us with Commodore-64's and -128's really did learn BASIC. Eventually assembly, Pascal, C, and now all of the scripting languages we used to joke about because they were scripting languages.
PraetorianXX@reddit
BASIC was the first programming language I ever attempted to learn, on a Commodore 64 in the mid-1980s. I was a child at the time, I had no clue what I was doing. Decades later I am writing software to help special education schools keep track of their learners' education, engagement, and progress. I still barely know what I'm doing though. Rest in peace, Thomas
yhgan@reddit
My first programming language is BASIC. RIP
codeninja@reddit
GoTo: 10;
vital_chaos@reddit
In 1973, I learned BASIC on a teletype in a public high school, connected to a mainframe somewhere via a telephone coupler. A half-century later, I am still writing code. BASIC was the gateway.
mfairview@reddit
Beginners All-purpose Symbolic Instructional Code
RIP
deftware@reddit
If it wasn't for BASIC there wouldn't have been qbasic, which is what I tweaked on as a kid in the 90s, and learned concepts that I still use to this day.
RIP <3
MCMFG@reddit
RIP to a legend, you will be missed. o7
kingius@reddit
Rest in peace, luminary.
notjshua@reddit
He lived long enough to see his language turn 60.
Plank_With_A_Nail_In@reddit
Reddit GOTO predates BASIC by a good few years, BASIC inherited it from Machine Language. It did set the sort of set the standard for FOR loops (replacing DO loops) and IF statements though.
Odd_Ninja5801@reddit
GOTO afterlife
shevy-java@reddit
10 go to 20 20 come back!
Specialist_Brain841@reddit
GOTO END
nexxai@reddit
GOTO HEAVEN
predat3d@reddit
GOTO 86
dethb0y@reddit
RIP.
bocsika@reddit
"co-inventor, with John Kemeny, of the BASIC programming language"
Rest in peace.