Stephen Miller on deportations plans. Wouldn't this have... major civil war implications?
Posted by Vensurething@reddit | PrepperIntel | View on Reddit | 1027 comments
ledbedder20@reddit
Umm... whoever wrote this is assuming that military units in different states operate under different chains of command, which is incorrect, if activated by the president to find illegal aliens under a terrorism initiative, the federal government runs all military including the National Guard. When not activated, it's state controlled for in state operations like weather related disasters, perhaps a serious riot or something similar not to hint people down.
Ok_Angle94@reddit
It's called title 32.(state) and title 10 (federal).
But I'd seriously doubt mobilizing the national guard to go house to house hunting for illegals and rounding people (legal and illegal, because how would you know) without due process is completely illegal and unconstitutional.
But who am I kidding they don't care about the constitution and they own the courts so who knows what they'll do.
capt-bob@reddit
Chicago was using national guard to kick doors in public housing to search for guns , they said guns weren't allowed in public housing and were trying to cut down on gang violence if i remember right.
Ok_Angle94@reddit
Interesting, got a source on that?
capt-bob@reddit
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1994-01-02-mn-7625-story.html It was Puerto Rico, I guess Chicago uses police and gets sued constantly lol.
jokersvoid@reddit
So it comes down to weather or not the top brass follows unlawful orders. I like to think they won't and will pacify this administration until it's over. It's better than admitting that we let America become a puppet oligarchy. He doesn't have the muscle. He is as weak and pathetic as his racist ideology.
Low_Establishment149@reddit
I wish what you said about him being weak was true. It’s not. He has an army of 75+ million who are deluded by his absurdities and are more than willing to commit atrocities in his name. He is in fact a powerful mother fucker!
capt-bob@reddit
He did win the popular vote...
capt-bob@reddit
Except it's not unlawful orders, the Biden administration authorized military to use deadly force to support law enforcement in the run up to the election, hoping to use military against trump supporters. Didn't work out like they planned....
Ok_Angle94@reddit
Not just the brass but the entire office corps all the way down.
SickCallRanger007@reddit
Don’t forget NCOs. Senior NCOs from the surge era are on their way out. The new, incoming generation of SNCOs were still teenagers in the 2000s. I doubt most of them are eager to go door-to-door gestapo style.
Ok_Angle94@reddit
Yu are right, this country has too many checks and balances to let anything like that happen. I belive in all of us to make the right decisions.
CalligrapherLow6880@reddit
The checks and balances are gone. Republicans are running all branches.
Ok_Angle94@reddit
Yea I meant all of us in society, nit just congress.
CalligrapherLow6880@reddit
In that case, I hope you are right.
EofWA@reddit
I think Gen Z men who joined the tooth end of the service might be more willing to.
EofWA@reddit
You think the entire officer corps is on board with the great replacement and allowing democrats to gain unearned power through open borders?
Ok_Angle94@reddit
Officers actually need to go to college and earn a degree to be comissioned, and therefor they don't believe in silly nonsense like that.
EofWA@reddit
So what? Peter Hegseth went through college. You want to wager whether more infantry leaders are like him or some crazy liberal?
Ok_Angle94@reddit
Peter Hegseth is barely an officer, he's a weekend warrior and part of the reserves. Active duty 2nd lieutenants have more days in the service than he does.
EofWA@reddit
Lol
It’s the national guard that will be used to carry out assistance for ICE silly
Ok_Angle94@reddit
Good luck having them comply, all of them also went to college.
Mortambulist@reddit
I don't think you guys are fully grasping the situation here. He's going to clean house. There will be no one left in the Pentagon except his psychophants.
Ok_Angle94@reddit
Pentagon pencil pushers cant just go ahead and carry out Trump's will. Tens of thousands of officers down the chain of command was wear their allegiance to the constitution for a region. A general isn't going door to door looking for illegals, it's the soldiers and their officers. Trump isn't going to be able to do shit.
EofWA@reddit
The constitution explicitly empowers the federal government to enforce immigration issues and the president to use the military to suppress insurrection, which is what state authorities trying to facilitate population replacement are involved in
Mortambulist@reddit
Well, I hope you're right, because I'd really love to be wrong about this one.
Adept_Feed_1430@reddit
I’d love for you to be wrong too, but I worry that you’re right
jokersvoid@reddit
Can't clean a house that's locked down and the person refuses to leave. At some point people have to not follow the orders because it's a threat to the people. Not all orders are to be followed.
I was on guard duty in rear detachment. I was told to leave the room so an NCO could be alone with the soldier. This was against the orders I received from the 0-2 at the beginning of the post. I told the NCO no and he threatened the shit out of me. We almost did some hand to hand drills but I refused. That NCO was court marshalled the next week and I was recommended for an award for my integrity and courage to help my peer. The E-7 wanted to get in and intimidate a soldier that was reporting him for SA.
as a soldier you have the right to not follow every order. Not all officers are right. It's why personal courage and integrity remain in the warrior ethos. That's why we need strong leaders, so that when weak people get in power we don't let them corrode the system we have sacrificed so much for.
FallenCheeseStar@reddit
We're not clones. Good soldiers dont always follow orders.
jokersvoid@reddit
This is the way. But over half the service members voted for the Trump administration. So this will be interesting.
As the parent of an autistic child I would suggest pacifying the man child and make sure it doesn't break the house down. The tantrum can't last forever so let's mitigate damage. It's the only game plan that works when mine is really out of sorts.
OtterishDreams@reddit
Voting for someone and executing a coup d'etat are very very different things
jokersvoid@reddit
I hope others are like you. I don't care if you vote differently but if you stand for this shit still then you need a gut check. A sex trafficker appointed to AG, a puppet at DNI, a person wanting to deport war heroes at ICE and some fake agency ran by billionaires cutting military benefits programs..... If you are okay booting generals because they don't agree with your politics then you ain't right lol
United we stand. Divided we fall. Got check time.
KingOfTheNorth91@reddit
Top brass can be fired until someone is found who will obey
jokersvoid@reddit
I disagree. I worked next to some good generals. You could try to fire them. It shows how little you know of the military if you think you can walk into a generals HQ and tell them to leave 😅 that's a really funny thought..
Hitler used mercenaries to execute the generals in the middle of the night. It was called the night of the long knives. It was the only way he could get power of the armed forces. Trump doesn't have a mercenary group that could pull shit like that.
KingOfTheNorth91@reddit
Any commissioned officer serves at the pleasure of the president. Sure, an officer or group of officers can resist assuming they have the backing of enough troops but that then leads to what this post is generally talking about. If a general refuses to step down, what then? A coup erupts against the elected president? Would there be some that stand with Trump in this hypothetical situation? I have no idea but it’s not impossible.
To elaborate on my previous comment, do you think the CSA would refuse an order from the president to step down? If he doesn’t where does that lead us? If he does, the president can appoint another general.
jokersvoid@reddit
No coup erupts if somebody refuses to leave the position. They simply don't leave if the command is not lawful or within regulations and they file paperwork to challenge the decision. That challenge would then go through JAG and a military tribunal. Their soldiers under them would most likely continue to work at their directive until the end.
People have refused to resign in civil areas when trump 'fired' them and nothing happened to them. I know one was an AG at state level. At some point people will just stop following orders and directives because they are choosing integrity over command. I don't think he has enough educated people that follow his thinking to stage the coup.
KingOfTheNorth91@reddit
The part I had missed was “in times of war” the president can remove any officer from service at his leisure. I was under the assumption that was a regular power vested in the presidency and that’s what sprung my confusion. I was thinking how could not following a lawful order from the president be seen as anything but a power move against the president? But I guess it wouldn’t be a lawful order unless we were at war
jokersvoid@reddit
The scary part is that he would drag us into a war just for wartime rules. At some point people will have a gut check. Do we lay down and accept the gutting of our rights or do we stand? If you don't see the trump administration as a horrible idea then you will see soon enough.
KingOfTheNorth91@reddit
Oh believe me I’m horrified about the thought of the coming four years and it’s only been 10 days since the election. You’re right though. He’s had a bone to pick with Iran (especially now after supposed assassination suspicions) so that could be a prime target for him
itsdietz@reddit
It doesn't matter if it's constitutional now if it's an official act by the president. We're fucked unless the military has the pushback. How about we unretire Mad dog Mattis and Milley
capt-bob@reddit
3 weeks before the election Dems authorized military to use deadly force to support law enforcement. Illegal immigrants are here illegally, thus, law enforcement.
JoeBidensBoochie@reddit
Given the respect those two guys have from the military I’m sure all it’ll take is a sic em boys from them to remove trump
Competitive_Shift_99@reddit
Removing Trump would also be unconstitutional. Neither of those guys are scum. They're not going to wipe their butt with the Constitution.
itsdietz@reddit
Someone already wiped their butt with it. Now we're paying the price.
Competitive_Shift_99@reddit
How so? It looks at this point like Trump was legitimately elected. Wishes of the voters.
itsdietz@reddit
Lol
Competitive_Shift_99@reddit
Well? Do you have evidence of any election fraud?
I mean Trump himself was whining about election fraud last time without evidence.
Have you got some?
itsdietz@reddit
They impeached him and had a sham trial in the senate over it. Your MAGA friends made it sham and made sure he got off scotfree. You know, like dictators do.
Competitive_Shift_99@reddit
My maga friends? The fuck 😂
I don't get it. We shit all over Trump for 4 years for smearing the Constitution, and now we're supposed to smear it? We're not supposed to be better than him?
Yeah, there's no way the Republicans were going to convict their own guy. Doesn't even make any political sense. If they'd have done it, they'd have all been kicked out of their offices. They're obviously not going to do the right thing. They're politicians. They're scum.
This needs to be a wake up call. We need to remember that we are better than Trump. We actually stick to the Constitution without being forced to. If he was democratically elected, then he was democratically elected. So far it looks like he won the popular vote too. So I can't even bitch about the electoral college this time.
I think we badly underestimated how pissed off people are about inflation.
cox_the_fox@reddit
Liberals have been using alarmist rhetoric about Trump for years and if he’s truly a fascist then logically it doesn’t make sense to have a smooth transfer of power in the minds of all these people who have been told to believe that Trump is Hitler
Competitive_Shift_99@reddit
Oh you're absolutely a trump voter. I can tell because you're ranting about liberals. When someone's ranting about liberals or the media or blah blah blah that means they've already been brainwashed. Too late for you.
January 6th tells us everything we need to know about Trump. The fact that Trump was already claiming The election was rigged this time as well before he even won it... Again tells us everything we need to know.
The fact that he's never acknowledged that he lost the last election? That tells us what we need to know. Every time it doesn't go his way there's always a huge conspiracy. Everyone's out to get him. It's so unfair. Wine, wine, bitch, bitch, moan moan he's a little pussy.
He's a wannabe fascist. He's too much of a pussy to be an actual fascist.
cox_the_fox@reddit
Lol you have such a simplistic and binary way of viewing politics of you think criticism of liberals can only come from Trump supporters
Competitive_Shift_99@reddit
I just reread my post. I didn't even use the word "only".
Not sure what your on about, but your assumptions are your own problem.
Autistic-speghetto@reddit
And Trump will make inflation worse. Every economist has told y’all this. Tariffs increase costs, deporting the people who work on farms increases costs, this is what happens when the uneducated don’t educate themselves on shit.
itsdietz@reddit
We're fucked. period. That's all I know. I don't think the constitution will save us. It means nothing anymore. I hope that's not true. But I think it is.
Competitive_Shift_99@reddit
Yeah. We were fucked last time too. Here we still are.
I remember when Obama got elected. They were all doom and gloom saying he was going to lock everybody up in FEMA camps.
Didn't happen either.
I think it's going to be ugly, it's going to be embarrassing to be an American, but we will survive. America as a set of principles is a lot more potent than a doddering old Boomer with clown paint on his face.
itsdietz@reddit
They impeached him and had a sham trial in the senate over it. Your MAGA friends made it sham and made sure he got off scotfree. You know, like dictators do.
FaithlessnessKind508@reddit
Had trump lost, he and Musk would be in cuffs. Musk violated a ton of election laws by backing trump with X.
JoeBidensBoochie@reddit
Not if they are an enemy of the state. They can be used to remove enemies both foreign and domestic. I would say a fascist regime is thst
Competitive_Shift_99@reddit
The constitutional mechanism to remove the president from power does not include a military coup.
I don't like the guy either, but I'm not willing to throw the Constitution away. We're better than he is.
FaithlessnessKind508@reddit
We are sworn to uphold the Constitution and protect the people. If a tyrant gives orders that violate the Constitution, they do not have to be obeyed. This would include cooperating with a purge of the military that risks national security and the military's ability to its job to defend the nation. They don't have to coup. They can just ignore him. Until he violates the Constitution. Then they can remove him. Honestly, this would risk civil war as some commanders may wish to stand with trump. It would be a balancing act. I suspect that the IC is working with the military to form a contingency to bust trump as a Russian actor. Then they could claim that we are in state of war and the coup was in defense of the nation. They could arrest everyone down to Thune and make him the acting president
Competitive_Shift_99@reddit
No. The commander-in-chief is empowered to make staffing decisions within the military leadership. That's perfect ly normal under the Constitution.
FaithlessnessKind508@reddit
In normal cases, yes. Not when it is accordance with an attempt to subvert the Constitution or if the commander in chief is compromised by a foreign power and openly working against the people.
Competitive_Shift_99@reddit
Well, a court would have to come up with that finding. Simply rearranging command structures isn't anything unconstitutional.
You also have to bear in mind that individual military officers are very much aware that it is illegal to follow illegal orders. Their oaths of service are to the Constitution, not to any particular politician.
FaithlessnessKind508@reddit
Not if you arrest the court, too. Like I said, all bets are off of the table. The military doesn't wait for courts. We perform actions then sort it out after.
As i have repeatedly stated, rearranging the military to support the violation of the Constitution, to get the military to violate the Constitution will not be tolerated.
And yes, our oath is to the Constitution and the defense of the people from all enemies foreign and domestic.
Competitive_Shift_99@reddit
Okay. Well there's no indication that anything like that is happening.
Like I said. There is nothing illegal or unconstitutional about changing up leadership. The commander-in-chief is empowered by the Constitution to do that very thing.
FaithlessnessKind508@reddit
Wanna bet?
Competitive_Shift_99@reddit
If you don't believe me, you can simply look. The Constitution is available for anybody to read at any time.
FaithlessnessKind508@reddit
Brother, I already told you, all bets are off of the table if trump tries to use the military to subvert the Constitution. There can be no justification for it, and it will be answered with force if necessary.
itsdietz@reddit
Removal by force is what will have to happen.
Competitive_Shift_99@reddit
You're starting to sound like a domestic enemy.
Don't wind up on any lists.
FaithlessnessKind508@reddit
I am already on lots of lists but none that include me as threat to Constitutional rule.
itsdietz@reddit
You sound like a ruskie
Competitive_Shift_99@reddit
The fuck is a rusky? Sorry, I don't speak Boomer.
WangMangDonkeyChain@reddit
your mistake is believing that you would receive the same treatment from them.
JoeBidensBoochie@reddit
You don’t ask a fascist to politely step down, it’s always by force. Playing this moral high ground of “ when they go low…” is what got us here.
Batman-Lite@reddit
No combat Mattis and traitor Milley does not have the support from the military you may think. Milley is a china sympathizer
JoeBidensBoochie@reddit
Calm down MAGAt
capt-bob@reddit
Are you calling for a military coup?
JoeBidensBoochie@reddit
Of course not, it’s not the choice I’m saying the reality of this breaks down into 1930-40s Germany the is likely the end result, or a rebellion.
itsdietz@reddit
I wish I believed it. If anyone had a chance it would be them. But the way the right coddles Trump's testicles, I don't think they would care.
cox_the_fox@reddit
I mean the left is also welcoming Trump with open arms with this “smooth” transfer of power after screaming about how he’s the next Hitler for the past 4-10 years. If Trump is Hitler then logically it doesn’t make sense to peacefully hand everything over to him
itsdietz@reddit
Alarm bells have been ringing.....
https://www.npr.org/2020/06/04/869262728/read-the-full-statement-from-jim-mattis
cox_the_fox@reddit
This is my point, where is he now? https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/many-of-trumps-former-staffers-are-speaking-out-so-i-knocked-on-james-mattis-door/
I guess being ambivalent is okay
capt-bob@reddit
You're calling for an actual military coup?
acer5886@reddit
You're confusing what SCOTUS said. Scotus only said Trump can't be prosecuted in the courts for acts under powers he has. That does not mean courts cannot block actions taken, that people can't say no, or that orders have to be followed if they are illegal.
sushisection@reddit
the 2nd amendment is that pushback.
saltyoursalad@reddit
It absolutely does matter. The president swears to protect the constitution — he’s not a king.
itsdietz@reddit
Unfortunately, the president is now a king. They have absolute power now. Biden is just too weak to use it to fix things
saltyoursalad@reddit
Using executive orders to get things done is not an effective use of power for the most part because those laws can more easily be undone by the next president. Biden understands this.
itsdietz@reddit
Releasing proof of Russian interference, arresting all those involved including the SCOTUS justices, Trump himself, and the many MAGA congressman wouldn't be easily undone. It would be legal because it's an official act.
saltyoursalad@reddit
Well let’s do it then! Someone get Biden on the line — it’s time to save the republic.
Fantastic_Poet4800@reddit
Not according to the current Supreme Court
Welllllllrip187@reddit
Why do you think they are starting with a complete military overhaul. they want to get rid of anyone that would oppose them.
MangoAnt5175@reddit
Here’s your source, btw: https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/pete-hegseths-plan-overhaul-americas-military-fire-ton/story?id=115842674
Hegseth said publicly he needs to start by “firing a ton of generals”.
Welcome to the third stage of the 5 step standard model for a coup.
capt-bob@reddit
Democrats purge as soon as they get into office every time, Republicans are dumb and wait to see who needs purged and get blasted for it every time, time to use democrat methods.
Old_Baldi_Locks@reddit
He’s a Christian nationalist. For anyone wondering, that’s an old school name for “Nazis.”
EofWA@reddit
According to you people the allied troops who died at Normandy, Stalingrad, Anzio, Kursk etc were all fascists. The greatest generation would consider you leftists to be bizarre at the least
MayorWestt@reddit
No, those troops were the original antifa. They were killing fascists
Historical_Tie_964@reddit
Well, the soviets are the ones that defeated the nazis and ended WWII, technically. America didn't really give a shit about the concentration camps or the Germans until Pearl Harbor. It's always been communists vs fascists regardless of how they wanna rewrite the books.
EofWA@reddit
The soviet troops would be fascists too according to you leftists. Largely Christian Russia nationalists and Islamic central Asians
Historical_Tie_964@reddit
Way to dance around the argument dipshit. Your username leads me to believe you're from Spokane which.... shows lol
EofWA@reddit
You’re also showing you don’t understand the Red Army, the red army tried marshaling people to fight for communism and it get thrashed by the Wehrmacht, Stalin literally then reinstated Russian imperial army medals and orders, reopened the Russian Orthodox Church, and rebuilt the army on patriotism as being part of the Rus and then the Red Army kicked ass.
The red army that defeated Hitler was Christian nationalism imperial blood and soil army and not one of international communism
Historical_Tie_964@reddit
Hey I have some magic beans I wanna sell you. Super legit, they'll change your life in 24 hours. All you have to do is wire me $40,000
EofWA@reddit
Only if I can take remote control of your computer to make sure the deposit goes correctly
Historical_Tie_964@reddit
Okay perfect, to take control of my computer all you have to do is walk outside, wait for the light to turn green, and step into oncoming traffic. Let me know when you have completed this process and I will send the beans over to your mailing address :-)
EofWA@reddit
No, remember I grew up in Seattle, I know how computers work so you can’t trick me with this nonsense
Historical_Tie_964@reddit
Sorry, your political opinions led me to believe otherwise.
EofWA@reddit
No, born in Seattle, grew up in Seattle, transplanted to LA
Also Spokane is a blue city. Something you’d know if you actually knew anything
Historical_Tie_964@reddit
Idk those political opinions are giving eastern Washington for sure, you'd think somebody from a more intelligent area would've had some of it rubbed off on them but stubbornness trumps intelligence with some it seems
MayorWestt@reddit
Not without massive help from the US with lend lease, the allies' invasion of Europe, and the allied bombing raids.
And the soviets invaded Poland with the nazis at the start of the war. It wasn't until Hitler invaded them that they joined the allies
Historical_Tie_964@reddit
Did you by any chance go to American public school?
MayorWestt@reddit
Did you go to school in russia?
Historical_Tie_964@reddit
No lol I went to American public school which is how I'm so familiar with the propaganda you are uncritically regurgitating 😏
MayorWestt@reddit
Did the allies not land in Normandy? Did the US not send russia thousands of aircraft, tanks, and artillery through the lend lease program? We're b17s not dropping bombs on German factories?
EofWA@reddit
No they weren’t, according to you those men were fascists
MayorWestt@reddit
The allied troops in ww2 were fighting the nazis (fascists). That makes them antifa
Old_Baldi_Locks@reddit
When you get around to cracking a history book you’ll find out I wasn’t exaggerating.
“Christian Nationalists” are literally OG Nazis.
EofWA@reddit
Lol no. Take your commie nonsense somewhere else
Old_Baldi_Locks@reddit
Cry more about it. There’s no such thing as a non-Nazi Christian Nationalist, never was.
EofWA@reddit
Lol read a book from time to time
Old_Baldi_Locks@reddit
Says the guy who hasn’t read a history book and started crying like a bitch about commies when books are mentioned.
Sea-Collection-9677@reddit
Try National Socialist Party = Nazi. the left are the Nazis, not the right
Historical_Tie_964@reddit
Hey bro I have some magic beans I wanna sell you they are totally legit
ResoluteWrites@reddit
I suppose you think the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is the best democracy in the world, then?
Oh, who am I kidding. Write a poem about tangerines.
Sea-Collection-9677@reddit
try to stay on the page - North Korea in your example = Nazis, too.
icanseepeas@reddit
It Wouk just take a little research to know better.
Old_Baldi_Locks@reddit
Nationalist Socialism. If you’re gonna fuck it up get the words right at least loser.
And after the Night of The Long Knives, the ONLY Nazis left were the Nationalists.
Sea-Collection-9677@reddit
always name calling and labeling people, just like a good fascist nazi should. have a nice day
Old_Baldi_Locks@reddit
That’s right bitch, you just googled and learned something.
Go seethe about it.
MangoAnt5175@reddit
I’ve been informed that technically, you can’t call them Nazis unless they idolize Hitler. You can call them Fascists, which they fit the definition of, though. Doesn’t really matter because with our public education system, I doubt anyone knows what a Fascist actually is, though. So. 🤷🏼♀️ guess it’s about to be a good decade for Fascism.
Old_Baldi_Locks@reddit
The guy has Deus Vult tattoos and symbology on his body. Those have been known Neo-Nazis symbols for decades.
I wasn’t exaggerating. He’s a NeoNazi.
Sea-Collection-9677@reddit
you just witnessed two coups. Biden was “couped in” in 2020, and “couped out” in 2024.
Welllllllrip187@reddit
Yep. It’s fucked.
Logical_Willow4066@reddit
That's also so they can withdraw from NATO.
thelordofsafety@reddit
You people are insane. I hate Trump but courts have been going after him for years under BS pretenses. NATO was created to combat USSR expansionism, after the USSR collapsed it should have been abolished. Consider for once we have all been lied to by the billionaires who own all of the media.
Thadrach@reddit
Like.... Elon?
:)
capt-bob@reddit
Didn't know he owned all media, I thought he just allowed free speech on Twitter lol.
I_dont_know2030@reddit
Maybe all of the countries in Europe can fund their own militaries to stop Russia. They can get the money from getting rid of their universal healthcare. Then, hopefully, one day, with the money we save, we can enjoy some universal healthcare.
capt-bob@reddit
Exactly, they rail on the US for not having the social programs they spend their defense money on, forcing us to pay for their defense with money we could use for those programs here.
capt-bob@reddit
The stated goal is to get NATO to pay their agreed to amounts for mutual defense unter the NATO treaty.
iamlazy@reddit
If the US leaves NATO, it will greatly increase the chance of a WW3 as well as accelerate that timetable.
icanseepeas@reddit
Yes, that’s what Putin wants.
capt-bob@reddit
He said he wanted NATO countries to pay the amount for defense they agreed to in the charter, it's a treaty obligation. They weren't and making the US pay for their defense. He threatened to not defend them to get them to make good on their promises.
LYSF_backwards@reddit
Exactly what Putin has wanted for years.
Beelzeburb@reddit
Make Russian Great Again or whatever the hats say
Memegunot@reddit
MRGAG
Tank_Girl_Gritty_235@reddit
Oops all dictatorships
FlapMyCheeksToFly@reddit
Didn't Congress make that impossible?
Welllllllrip187@reddit
It’s on the agenda.
capt-bob@reddit
Probably because some generals admitted to lying and hiding truth from the president last time he was elected to control the country.
Kinda like when the military nuked Nagasaki without presidential approval, so Truman set up an armed civilian organization to control nukes to keep them from doing it again, there is a president for the president retaliating for the military going around his back.
Timely-Bill735@reddit
They want to overhaul the military because we have a bunch of pussies that couldn’t win a war !!!
Huge-Way886@reddit
How’s that HATE SPEECH GOING FOR YA??? GETTING KICKED OFF
Little_Dick_Energy1@reddit
They can't legally oppose him, he's the commander in Chief. He's enforcing a valid US law using valid US laws. What exactly would they be opposing?
Welllllllrip187@reddit
Morally wrong actions.
Little_Dick_Energy1@reddit
Replacing citizens at their expense is morally wrong. Entering a country illegally is morally wrong.
Do I get to illegally enter Japan and expect not to be deported? What planet are Americans living on?
Autistic-speghetto@reddit
After the illegals are gone, they will come for you next. That’s how dictatorships work. Just ask all the communists who died under Mao or Stalin.
Welllllllrip187@reddit
It’s not just the illegal immigrants they want gone, and it’s also to enforce their will. If they don’t bend to their will, they’ll send in the army that agrees with their horrid beliefs to force them into compliance. If they don’t agree with them, they are the “enemy within” and what do you do to enemy’s? Imprison them for labor? Execute them?
What planet are Americans living on? A horrid one that just bit the final bullet.
NullnVoid669@reddit
4th Amendment
MangoAnt5175@reddit
Do you mean the 3rd amendment? Against giving quarters? Or the 4th, against unreasonable search?
In any case, I don’t think the amendments matter in a coup.
Little_Dick_Energy1@reddit
Why would they be violating that???
DarkPangolin@reddit
Have you even read the 4th Amendment?
_vault_of_secrets@reddit
Nope.
WrenchMonkey47@reddit
No, that's what 0bama did.
Old_Baldi_Locks@reddit
And that’s where we find out if military service members actually have the balls to stand by their oaths or if they just took a job where they could dream about hurting people because they weren’t man enough to do it without a “team” behind them.
What’s your bet?
Welllllllrip187@reddit
I’m willing to bet they won’t be told as to why, just that hey, you’re terminated affective immediately. They’ll do a full panel review, full detailed intelligence reports on individuals, assess which way they lean and how hard and then make the decision of who to keep.
capt-bob@reddit
Like the generals that admitted to lying to him last time to cut him out of decisions.
Green_Bluejay9110@reddit
Illegal aliens and due process. What a concept.
Ok_Angle94@reddit
They're still human beings. Bill of rights applies to all people, legal residents or not, that is why the United States is such a great nation.
Green_Bluejay9110@reddit
Wrong. They are subject to deportation. They don’t belong here.
Ok_Angle94@reddit
Sure, but they are still entitled to due process when they're rounded up, legal residents or illegals both
Green_Bluejay9110@reddit
Deportation itself includes due process. However if one is here illegally, deport. All of them.
kingofthesofas@reddit
Yeah it would be a complete shit show and there would be massive humanitarian, legal and other issues. He better get rid of democracy forever after that because no way people tolerate Martial law and armed military going door to door without massive backlash.
Thadrach@reddit
His supporters would apparently tolerate it, since they voted for it.
Not like this was some dark secret...
kingofthesofas@reddit
I think people are pretty dumb and either don't think he will do it or don't realize how bad it will be or just flat out never heard about it. Remember that a top Google search before the election was "did Joe biden drop out" and "what is an authoritarian". There are probably a very large contingent of voters that were like inflation bad Trump economy good smash that Trump vote and when confronted with the massive cost, economic devastation and humanitarian catastrophe of mass deportations they would not be happy. I am sure there are some hardcore block of voters that would be fine with it but they are in a small minority.
ViewFar6005@reddit
Section 1028 and 1029 of the 2012 National Defense Authorization Act already allow them to do exactly this. Passed under Obama. Hmm, who had the dictatorial tendencies again?
Thadrach@reddit
You're lying about sec. 1028, so I stopped reading there.
Bye troll.
Square-Primary2914@reddit
Why do people say that? Is it not a presidential duty to fill Supreme Court seats and other judicial seats. Would you be okay if the democrats filled them?
Thadrach@reddit
Depends if they appointed objectively - corrupt justices.
But hey...who among us hasn't accepted a mansion from a neo-Nazi?
:)
ProvincialPrisoner@reddit
The seats of the supreme Court aren't supposed to be motivated by political parties, only constitutionality whether as it's written or implied (which in and of itself is hotly contested). The only reason the supreme Court has become so politicized is because Congress passed the buck on a lot of rulings/enforcement of their own.
1Squid-Pro-Crow@reddit
Yes. Because the three judges who were nominated by Democrats haven't agreed with decisions that were obviously unethical, not truly to the rule of law, etc.
Ok_Angle94@reddit
What do you mean... yes it's their duty so obv every party has went ahead and packed them with judges thst agree with their political ideology. The judges aren't impartial robots and they know they owe him their seats and they want to rule on the side of their political party so they will. Why else would you nominate a liberal/conservative justice?
Inevitable_Shift1365@reddit
To fill the court and the military with loyalists? No that is not presidential duty. That is autocracy.
phil_leotaado@reddit
If Miller thinks he's gonna kick down doors in a country with 400 million guns and no registration database for said guns...i hope he plans on being one of the people doing it
Hot_Safe_4009@reddit
Sounds like what was starting happening in another part of the world in the ~1900’s. It’s crazy no one sees it.
19Texas59@reddit
Stephen Miller is just plain nuts.
Legitimate_Young_253@reddit
It would be time to fight back, to defend the Constitution
Rightintheend@reddit
Good thing he got himself a supreme Court
Ok_Angle94@reddit
Good luck going door to door orange man, better pack some extra diapers
Astromendah@reddit
This is nothing like title 32, on title 32 it’s at the behest of the host state, Miller is talking about politicizing the military to essentially invade an autonomous neighboring state. Anyone who thinks this is a good idea is doing mental gymnastics to justify this policy.
TheEvilestEvan@reddit
They don’t care.
Castabae3@reddit
Why do you think it's impossible to know who's illegally or legally migrated?
We have documents for the people are are legally here we don't have them for people that are illegally here.
Ok_Angle94@reddit
We don't have a database for where all the illegals live and work. You said it yourself, we don't have documents for people who are here illegally. So we don't have a way to track them or know their whereabouts. So how are we going to find them all? And even if we knew, do yoy just expect them to stay put nice and quiet where you think theybare in waiting for troops to come take them away from their families?
Castabae3@reddit
We don't have a way to track down all the people who came here illegally but we sure as hell have a way to determine if the person they are targeting came here legally or illegally.
I was just stating it's very possible to differentiate legal and illegal migrants.
Ok_Angle94@reddit
So if we don't have a way to track down illegals, but have a way to determine their legality once we have them.... then how are you going to "target" these people that you suspect are illegals?
Are you going to profile them by their race? Ethnicity? Places of residence? Economic status? Language?
Sure it is technically possible to determine my citizenship or legal status once you have me in custody. But what is going to be your reason to barge into my house and start demanding legal papers from me?
What you are saying the government can and could do is all highly illegal and unconstitutional, and not o ly will it going to be a crime to do it to illegals because ALL people know this country are afforded the due process rights and human rights outlined in the constitution and the bill of rights, but it'll be a huge infringement to all the legal residents a d citizens living in this country.
Castabae3@reddit
Like I said again, I don't currently have a way to target said "illegals" I was merely criticizing your wording of "(legal and illegal, because how would you know)" Because you would absolutely know if you picked up a legal migrant, They are already in our national database as a citizen.
You'd never barge into a citizens house, You can determine your citizenship without knocking on your door, Your legal identity is tied to everything you own and do, House, Car, Job. It'd be pretty easy to figure out who the citizens are, The problem is finding out who the illegal people are.
You're kind of straw-manning me by assuming my argument here by assuming anything I suggest will be illegal, We already know who the legal citizens are we do not need to come knocking on your door.
If I had to guess one of the strategies they might implement, Would be a snitching program where your citizens report people who look suspicious. It would likely just result in police checking all criminals for legal identity and if they didn't have citizenship they'd be deported after they are tried for the crime.
Katt_Wizz@reddit
They give zero fucks about the rules of engagement.
inorite234@reddit
They don't care and neither will the SC when trump appoints 2 more judges.
RockTheGrock@reddit
Never forget about how he now has immunity for what's deemed official acts and now we can't even ask what the motivation was so nearly anything theoretically can be claimed to be official.
Linepuke@reddit
They came illegally and it is a fucking crime, you should want this like every other country in the world you ass clown.
justsomedude1776@reddit
Removing illegals in that manner is federally legal now and has been for years. Citizens are protected, but illegals can be seized anywhere on us soil at any time if the federal law is enforced. It's currently not being enforced. He wouldn't need to do anything or change anything. The federal government already has the legal authority to do this now. It's like states where weed is illegal, but the cops just don't enforce it and look the other way when they catch you, or have you dump it out. It's like if they stopped looking the other way. All that would be changing here is enforcement of the law vs. not enforcing it, like it is currently happening. I don't know if that makes it worse 😕
BackStageTech13@reddit
I don’t reckon they give a shit about due process of constitutionality.
JoeBidensBoochie@reddit
Homan said something to the tune of “ well that’s for the courts to figure out” when asked about how would you determine someone’s status in a raid
Ok_Angle94@reddit
Courts aren't going to have time processing over 15 million illegals, that is if we can even find them all.
JoeBidensBoochie@reddit
Oh no I agree, I was just stating what he said, he nor miller care, they want to rid the country of what they see as the problem
Ok_Angle94@reddit
Yes they are all talk and no action, just saying the feel good stuff that his supporters can lap it up, just like the border wall and how Mexico was going to pay for it.
JoeBidensBoochie@reddit
My concern is do they just give up or do they create a “ final solution “. I’m still worried about that but as each day goes on his cabinet looks more like a circus.
alexbeeee@reddit
Not if that mf deems it a “presidential act” the highest court in the US gave him that power willingly, his attorney even asked the “hypothetical” what if we wanted to assassinate a political opponent? And they said that’s ok
praharin@reddit
That didn’t happen. In one of the dissent opinions one of the justices asserted it.
madadekinai@reddit
I hope people realize that he was asked 3 times what would happen and or what this would potentially look like during an interview, and the question was "Will you have someone go door to door? Will you possibly have the military go door to door?" and on all 3 times he deflected his answer. More than likely that is what is going to happen.
KlappinMcBoodyCheeks@reddit
I'd like to speak to this in a bit.
I have doubts that the federal government can activate the NG, then put them in states that haven't already asked for assistance.
Just commenting now so I can come back to this later after I look into it a bit.
TheZingerSlinger@reddit
Im not an expert, but reading up on Posse Comitatus it seems like if the president nationalized the National Guard they can be used and ordered as the president sees fit.
But those forces would then be restricted by the Posse Comitatus Act that prevents military forces from being used for domestic law enforcement except under specific circumstances.
Those circumstances include use of the Insurrection Act, which Trump has repeatedly said he would enact “on day one” a zillion times. Then Guard units can be sent to states whose governor did not invite them.
Link: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act
Also, as I understand it I could be wrong,the Alien Enemies act allows the active-duty military to be deployed domestically to arrest “alien enemies” with ties to whatever countries are determined to be hostile, participating in an “invasion” etc.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_and_Sedition_Acts
That, again I could be wrong, requires some sort of determination of some kind of state of “war” but can be short of a formal declaration of war. Vague and exploitable if Trump switches the Alien Enemies Act “on day one” as he has stated he will even within the past few days.
And if that doesn’t fly, he can always go ahead and, as he’s threatened to do again even this week, “bomb the cartels” in Mexico, and send the military to secure the border, probably even crossing into Mexico to create “buffer zones” on Mexican soil.
That would certainly get him his war and any justification he needs.
bristlybits@reddit
this takes me back to the right wing neonazi weirdos back in the 80s-90s constantly freaking out about "posse comitatus! Waco! Ruby ridge! fuck James Barr!"
mowog-guy@reddit
Some you're Ok with what happened at Waco, Ruby Ridge and other events that triggered those people?
bristlybits@reddit
why are they suddenly ok with it?
volunteertribute96@reddit
I’m not okay with negotiating with terrorists. They should’ve used a lot more violence against them, a lot faster, and encouraged more of their fellow travelers to fuck around and find out, instead of coddling them.
kingofthesofas@reddit
I cannot imagine what an insurgency run by the cartels would look like but I bet it would put the Taliban to shame. Also the people in Northern Mexico are very pro American and would absolutely flip in their opinion which would create lots of problems considering how much critical manufacturing is located there.
chickennuggetscooon@reddit
The cartels fold quickly when the feds pressure them. They aren't jihadists, they don't want to die.
kingofthesofas@reddit
Yeah but that is because they are afraid of a full on invasion but if the invasion is already here then it would probably be game on.
false_can514@reddit
lol terminally online delulu. What kind of air defense systems do the cartels have???? lol. jfc.
kingofthesofas@reddit
Yeah what kind of air defense system did the Taliban have? Or the Vietcong? Still kicked our asses. Now imagine the Taliban but much better funded and using those drones we see in Ukraine. Insurgencies are not something you stop because they don't have air defense.
Ho_Advice_8483@reddit
Cartels are glorified gangs. They would definitely fold is us military got involved
MoistMaker83@reddit
There was an NBC article about the Mexican military ramping up actions against cartels, and from the sound of it, the military has been annihilating them during shoot outs.
false_can514@reddit
good
Senior_Camp7784@reddit
That's why they just investigated aliens, so they can declare war on aliens and use the alien enemies act.
CloudLockhart69@reddit
You might have doubts, but the 5/9 trump supreme court won't have doubts.
The law isnt real and doesnt matter. Only power matters
KlappinMcBoodyCheeks@reddit
I sincerely hope you ultimately are proven wrong.
ohyeahwell@reddit
!remindme 1 year
RemindMeBot@reddit
I will be messaging you in 1 year on 2025-11-14 21:47:41 UTC to remind you of this link
CLICK THIS LINK to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.
^(Parent commenter can ) ^(delete this message to hide from others.)
Keeper151@reddit
They can try, but I forsee a similar activation of local NG to prevent out of state NG from entering and conducting illegal activities. The governors of WA, CA, and NY aren't going to stand for that kind of military interventionism, and they will have overwhelming public support.
This kind of shit is exactly how mass civil unrest/civil wars begin. Time for The Troubles, American Edition.
your_anecdotes@reddit
it's not illegal after they get charged with 18 U.S. Code § 2
Aiding and Abetting which is a Federal Crime | 18 U.S. Code § 2
KlappinMcBoodyCheeks@reddit
We know, you've been plastering this all over.
Thing is, it requires due process. Which we've discovered you are not a fan of.
It just leads me to the burning question: whats up with your hardon for killing Americans?
Are you in a welfare state NG, you have a dead end M-day job and you need to jump on orders, but are flagged and can't get deployed?
I'll bet that's what's going on here.
your_anecdotes@reddit
Why did Biden Hire Ukraine to murder people?
KlappinMcBoodyCheeks@reddit
Ah... There it is.
Путин крадет богатства русского народа. Он приносит в жертву целое поколение войне, чтобы угодить своему эго.
政府隐瞒了天安门广场发生的真相
ما هیچ حقیقتی نداریم دولت ما آن را پنهان می کند. آنها دین و فرهنگ ما را نابود کرده اند. ватник
b0x3r_@reddit
The whole premise is wrong. Trump doesn’t need to activate NG from red states to go into blue states. He can simply activate the NG in the blue states and they must follow his orders. They have no right to resist lawful orders from the President, and the deportation of illegal immigrants is an obviously lawful order.
Fantastic_Poet4800@reddit
Texas wouldn't be too happy about it either.
justsomedude1776@reddit
A majority of the national guard/military (over 80%) voted for Trump last time. Dunno about current statistics. They're not going to oppose the president they support in Washington or California if something like this happens. At best, they'll stand down, at worst, they'll provide the federalized version with Intel and info from the "inside" while refusing any actions opposing.
vulkoriscoming@reddit
The national guard gets sent to different states all the time. A guard unit from Oregon where I live was activated and sent to Texas and Arizona to help patrol the border. I have no idea if the governors of the two states were asked for consent first.
Keeper151@reddit
I never said it doesn't happen. NG gets deployed for disaster relief all the time, for example. Though I will point out there are enough political stunts revolving around the border that I have a hard time taking those deployments at face value.
Also, red state to blue state is a big factor, as is the 'unwelcome' and 'conducting illegal activities' part.
your_anecdotes@reddit
How about arresting the governors and who ever else is aiding and abetting federal criminals...and bring them up on federal charges..
KlappinMcBoodyCheeks@reddit
14A due process.
https://www.cato.org/blog/rogue-governors-state-legislatures-electoral-count-act something tells me you're a big fan of Governors refusing to comply with federal law when it suits your political ideology.
https://wtop.com/education/2024/05/arkansas-governor-says-state-wont-comply-with-new-federal-rules-on-treatment-of-trans-students/
Then there's Printz v. United States. Whooowee. That's a doozy.
This one is a little thought provoking https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/04/politics/republican-governors-stay-at-home-orders-coronavirus/index.html
Also interesting to ponder https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7280573/
I know... Lots of random links and thoughts. Maybe you're wondering "what does it all mean?"
It means that you will only cling to US code when it benefits yourself. Thinking that the national guard can be activated to arrest the state politicians of the states you don't like is straight up authoritarian wet dreaming. It's like you are just chomping at the bit to kill Americans.
I wonder why that is?
your_anecdotes@reddit
due process with proof that they're here illegally You have not been processed in the computer system.. there for illegal entry
8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien
KlappinMcBoodyCheeks@reddit
I kinda figured you weren't a fan of the presumption of innocence.
Welp, here's to hoping your fascist fantasies never come to reality.
Usual-Turnip-7290@reddit
There nothing to look into. Current laws or Supreme Court precedent are irrelevant. Trump will break the law. The question is whether the military and the Supreme Court will stand up to him.
This is no longer about the rule of law.
DatabaseAcademic6631@reddit
The President now has unlimited powers, and even if it were challenged legally Trump has the DOJ under his control... so who's prosecuting this illegality?
jokersvoid@reddit
Just because it's an order doesn't mean people will follow the order. Service members have the right to not follow orders that are unlawful or against the oath to protect the country from threats both foreign and domestic.
DatabaseAcademic6631@reddit
They'll follow any order given to them up to and including executing American citizens.
Exhibit A would be Kent State.
Trump played for all the marbles and won. He's in charge now... and if he says use lethal force they'll use lethal force.
jokersvoid@reddit
I disagree with this. It's why they are afraid of a 'woke' military. They are telegraphing the weak spots. Hopefully soldiers tap into that personal courage and integrity and can identify domestic threats.
DatabaseAcademic6631@reddit
I admire your optimism.
HappyAnimalCracker@reddit
It’s surprising how many people still, after all that has gone down, think that Trump is limited by what the law says.
silentgiant100@reddit
If I had 34 felony convictions I'd be in prison, not elected president.
Electronic_Finance34@reddit
Jack Smith!.... oh, wait.
ro_hu@reddit
Anything he does is apparently legal
the_m_o_a_k@reddit
The National Guard is not equipped to do large-scale law enforcement. It's not what any of them but MP's have been trained for.
OG_Antifa@reddit
I don’t think they’re really concerned about the lives of those they’re hunting. Rounded up, dead, it’s all the same to them.
And every servicemember is trained to shoot to kill. That’s what basic is for.
anis_mitnwrb@reddit
they're absolutely not trained for going door to door and clearing rooms. unless they're going to call in an airstrike on a suburban san bernardino neighborhood, they have no way of enforcing this policy
what would be more feasible is if local militias of radicals that don't care if they get shot became deputized and then were protected by a perimeter of national guard. not exactly more comforting other than the fact that the institution as it exists today isn't designed or easily mobilized for a policy like in the OP
OG_Antifa@reddit
I was in the Army National Guard. And I wasn’t infantry. I don’t know what to tell you 🤷♂️
Ritadrome@reddit
Trump has militias standing by.
Heffe3737@reddit
You say that like they care. Miller would be just as happy if the national guard shot everyone who isn’t white. Did you ever check out his leaked emails? He’s pretty up front about his views when not in public.
EofWA@reddit
Lol there is no miller emails saying who wants all people who aren’t white shot. You’re just making that up
Heffe3737@reddit
https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2019/11/12/stephen-millers-affinity-white-nationalism-revealed-leaked-emails
EofWA@reddit
SPLC is a racialist hate group and I ascribe zero legitimacy to anything they write
Heffe3737@reddit
lol! If you’re already discrediting information based on the source instead of fact checking it yourself, then there’s nothing that would have convinced you that he’s a virulent racist anyway. Why not just that you care more about partisan chest-puffing than the truth and saved us both some time?
But just in case, have some more links.
https://www.npr.org/2019/11/26/783047584/leaked-emails-fuel-calls-for-stephen-miller-to-leave-white-house
https://theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/14/stephen-miller-leaked-emails-white-nationalism-trump
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/11/12/leaked-stephen-miller-emails-suggest-trumps-point-man-immigration-promoted-white-nationalism/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/11/12/emails-show-white-house-advisor-stephen-miller-tauting-white-nationalism/2582150001/
Stephen Miller is racist as fuck. That’s reality; You need to come to grips with that. But to be clear, I don’t expect you to, as it would force you to confront the very real and ugly fact that you probably just voted for someone that continued keeping him in the administration, and in fact is putting him in his new cabinet, despite that information.
BeneficialLeave7359@reddit
My son was an MP in the Guard. His unit was closer to an infantry battalion than a police force.
Quirky-Jackfruit-270@reddit
now, civil unrest they actually train for that ...
Old-Bug-2197@reddit
But each soldier still has to get around the fact that he’s been given an illegal order
So how does that play at the military tribunal?
BenjaminT2021@reddit
Yes. Yea it will. Governors are busy now preparing for this.
HeisGarthVolbeck@reddit
Nazis gathered up Jews under a made up "terrorism initiative."
Trump supporters would never have joined the Allies. We'd have joined WW2 wearing swastikas.
KingOfTheNorth91@reddit
The entire national guard doesn’t get mobilized as a whole. The article is saying the guard from Texas, Florida, Oklahoma, etc will be federalized and sent to blue states. Blue states guard won’t be federalized and thus the governor will still be commander-in-chief.
capt-bob@reddit
In Katrina they picked blue state national guard units to assist law enforcement stacking up for kicking doors to confiscate guns, red states guard units balked at following unconstitutional orders, so they took the listing asy route and used blue states units.
Effective_Cookie510@reddit
The Posse Comitatus Act is a United States federal law (18 U.S.C. § 1385, original at 20 Stat. 152) signed on June 18, 1878, by President Rutherford B. Hayes that limits the powers of the federal government in the use of federal military personnel to enforce domestic policies within the United States.
Gonna be a lot harder then trump thinks to mobilize the military like that They have an obligation to ignore unlawful orders and any order forcing them to be law enforcement on us soil would fall under such laws
miloticfan@reddit
The article OP posted seems to indicate they would recruit their red state armies FROM the guard members—which wouldn’t require activating the guard at all—just gotta run up the debt to pay them more and get them to job hop. 🤷🏼♂️
ledbedder20@reddit
So like a "new" army? Riiiiggghhhtttt lol
miloticfan@reddit
It’s just what the text says though. It’s certainly not impossible to do or off the table—it’s the capitalist approach to national defense.
arentol@reddit
Umm... whoever you are is assuming that state National Guards would recognize the authority of an illegal order, which is exactly what this would be. The president can not order mass deportations of citizens. Congress can not order mass deportation of citizens. The Supreme Court can not make legal any such effort either. As such, all soldiers in the US army would be obligated to disobey the order, and not assist in any deportation efforts. In addition, if a private army was formed within the USA the FBI would be obligated to shut it down, and could call on any resources it needed, including asking the governors of any affected or nearby states to activate the NG to support them, if the private army was of great enough threat, and that would be a legal action by the governor. If the President attempted to nationalize the NG at the same time in those states for the express purpose of ensuring they could not put down what would, in fact, be an insurrection at that point, the NG commanders would be well within their rights to ignore that unlawful order.
You can't just point to a law and say "it gives him authority." The purpose for which he is using that law has to be legal, and this would not be legal.
Swimming_Weekend_971@reddit
No
WrathOfPaul84@reddit
all i know is that the current trend of millions of people pouring into the country per year, many of them unvetted, is not sustainable. all they need to do is deport the violent criminals/gangs, the rest will self-deport when the benefits stop. those here illegally but who are otherwise law abiding and making an honest living, should be given a path to citizenship IMO.
ACLU_EvilPatriarchy@reddit
An illegal rioting and taking up arms against police, National Guard and Alphabet Agencies isn't likely to return to his $15 an hour job the next morning.
but well heeled cartel may have their moles planting bombs etc and diversions... and Domestic Internal Enemies like ANTIFA Marxist Felons making human blockades for starters and burning car blockades and dump trucks and cement mixers .. .destroying railroad related materials would be A Homeland Security FEMA Patriot Act bullshat Federal Crime.
Rbelkc@reddit
Nah it all talk
Total-Put-2142@reddit
Civil War in the United States = what Stephen Miller's & Steve Bannon's wet dreams are made of.
Coolace34715@reddit
Well, an easy solution is to not harbor illegal aliens and resist the federal governments efforts to enforce the law.
geck06402@reddit
No, because they're here illegally to begin with.
CatAdorable8714@reddit
They can leave on their own, or leave assisted.
Zestyclose_Lobster91@reddit
Man you just had to go ahead and make a movie about a civil war in america huh? Giving people ideas and pitting state against state. Good luck this time around, funnily enough it might actually be about states rights this time.
bigselfer@reddit
Follow the funding. Who do you think was pushing mobile games about USA balkanization over the last few years?
WinIll755@reddit
The movie was actually pretty good. Unfortunately (much like with 1984) people took it as an instruction manual
alternativepuffin@reddit
Yeah, I thought that movie had a great message for everyone of:
"Dear America, you do NOT want this shit and stop talking about it so flippantly."
SnooKiwis2161@reddit
If they were serious about that messaging they should have not made the movie. It adds fuel to a conversation that didn't need to happen.
This is my objection to the Hand Maid's tale series. By putting the idea out there in it's most negative state, we're actually fantasizing about horror. And the object of fantasizing is to make it become reality.
ro_hu@reddit
Cool, so we should censor anything that is fictional set in the real world, because warning about something bad that could happen if no one does anything is what makes the bad thing happen, gotcha.
Too bad those fictional tales about the problems of climate change were written, we could have avoided that one.
SnooKiwis2161@reddit
Lol okay false equivalence
Show me where I said "censor"
I expressed an opinion you don't like, take your complaint to the management, or better yet, turn on the tv and enjoy - and emulate! - your dystopian fantasies.
ro_hu@reddit
Maybe since we are talking about this fictional scenario of censoring fiction you should stop talking otherwise it will happen in the real world right?
SnooKiwis2161@reddit
State my argument. Because you've thua far failed to articulate it by focusing on censorship, which is literally not the topic.
Until you address the second part of my comment, you've cherry picked the first part and chosen to see what you want to, instead of understanding the abstract concept of how we communicate ideas.
BlackSquirrel05@reddit
This is big. "If we teach teenagers about sex ed they'll done go and have sex n stuff." energy.
SnooKiwis2161@reddit
State my argument.
HappyAnimalCracker@reddit
Ever heard the phrase “Cautionary Tale?”
SnooKiwis2161@reddit
Yes, but I don't cosplay it
softsnowfall@reddit
I understand your point, but you never want a country to censor ideas (or books, knowledge, or etc). Hitler was big on censorship.
What we need is a country of people who are decent and educated (High school education is fine IF they actually were required to work hard and learn) people who see voting as a decision that is for the country and planet rather than just for themselves.
The movie content isn’t the problem. The problem is how many Americans decided they’d like that….
SnooKiwis2161@reddit
When my house is burning, I don't go outside and dress as fire to make it stop.
ill_be_huckleberry_1@reddit
The left wasnt.talking about it flippantly.
The right has been hoping for it.
Awedidthathurt@reddit
except you're on the Left point at the Rght blaming them while someone on the right is pointing at you doing the same. Here we are in a whole sub that gets off on doom and gloom. it's always them, because it's never you.
winnie_the_slayer@reddit
This is not a both sides issue.
People on the left are making yarn bracelets to identify each other.
People on the right have been buying guns and training to kill people for years and have been actively demonizing the left to justify killing them.
Evening_Pizza_9724@reddit
People on the left have been demonizing the right for years.
Rightintheend@reddit
I'm sorry, but pointing out the things you actually say and do is not demonizing.
Ill-Sort-4323@reddit
We are literally under a post where people in power are talking about creating a “Red army” and using it to suppress “Blue states”.
CarhartHead@reddit
God your guys victims mentality is just so fucking stupid. You’re acting like the state hasn’t been a force for the right for its entire existence. You’ve been demonizing leftists, communists and anarchists, for as long as they’ve been around. Not just demonizing them but arresting them and executing them. Remember Mcarthy? Haymarket? You dumbasses will take every opportunity to literally call for violence against the other side and then cry and scream the moment someone calls you out for it.
Evening_Pizza_9724@reddit
"your guys"? Sorry, but I think you are talking to the wrong person.
CarhartHead@reddit
Yeah “you guys” ya know, conservatives.
iDeNoh@reddit
Not even close to the same thing, but pot, kettle, black. All that jazz.
CarhartHead@reddit
God your guys victims mentality is just so fucking stupid. You’re acting like the state hasn’t been a force for the right for its entire existence. You’ve been demonizing leftists, communists and anarchists, for as long as they’ve been around. Not just demonizing them but arresting them and executing them. Remember Mcarthy? Haymarket? You dumbasses will take every opportunity to literally call for violence against the other side and then cry and scream the moment someone calls you out for it.
sadinpa224@reddit
Left doesn’t need to try. The right side shows their demons to everyone. Other demons Don the Red Hat and cheer.
ill_be_huckleberry_1@reddit
Where has the left threatened the right with the military?
You can't continue to both sides when one side is saying "you're the enemy and if we win we are going to use the military and every resource against you, that we are in the middle of the 2nd American Civil War and it will remain bloodless so long as the left allows us to win"
And the other side says "that's fascism"
You can't equate that. You can certainly try to, and it was effective, but that doesn't make it true
Empty_Equivalent6013@reddit
Not sure why you were downvoted, you’re spot on.
Richard_Chadeaux@reddit
Because the trolls are out in force.
Intimidating_furby@reddit
If 1984 is a manual I want hot underground resistance sex pls.
WinIll755@reddit
God please
stugots85@reddit
C'mon, subject matter and theme of the thread aside, that movie sucked hard as fuck. You have to be kidding me
realityunderfire@reddit
Lol. I tried to watch it with two friends while we were bored one day. We made it about 45 minutes and started watching something else.
ohyeahwell@reddit
Did you make it to Meth Damon?
Irverter@reddit
Which movie?
cheerful_cynic@reddit
Civil war
-TheDream@reddit
And Handmaid’s Tale.
jarpio@reddit
Stop it. There is no similarity between handmaids tale and people having the opportunity to vote on abortion at the state level. Grow tf up.
CommissionFeisty9843@reddit
Just like Idiocracy
NotTheGreatNate@reddit
You mean Eugenics, The Movie?
twinkbreeder420@reddit
Huh?
ExoticPumpkin237@reddit
Oh yeah im sure this all would have been avoided if not for Alex Garland. 🙄 Do you people think before you type?? Ex CIA and JCOS was coming out years ago saying they were worried about the risk of a civil conflict. This has been looooong in the making.
Zestyclose_Lobster91@reddit
Do you know what humor is?
ExoticPumpkin237@reddit
Yeah I do. You need to work on it if this was your attempt.
That-Condition9243@reddit
Insanely good movie, Kristen Dunst is phenomenal. https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/civil_war_2024
Usual-Turnip-7290@reddit
It’s a decent movie, but it was a lot more about journalism than it was about civil war.
Kinda disappointing in that respect.
Spunge14@reddit
I watched it, and in the end it really didn't say very much at all about the civil war itself
makes_peacock_noises@reddit
I’m not sure what that movie was about. Plot was let’s drive to DC and interview the President, but that all petered out into a series of bumblefuck misadventures. It was like Easy Rider but with Kirsten Dundst scowling instead of Fonda looking all hot and sexy. And a much lamer sound track
BladedNinja23198@reddit
A really boring and forgettable movie tbh. The only scene I remember is the one with Jesse Plemmons in it.
makes_peacock_noises@reddit
Are you talking about Civil War or American Insurrection?
KJ6BWB@reddit
Who, what movie?
BladedNinja23198@reddit
Civil War (2024) By A24
Th3_Admiral_@reddit
Yeah, good point. The idea of a civil war in America was totally unheard of before that.
SaliciousB_Crumb@reddit
Lol by any standard movie trump is the bad guy. It's amazing how people think movies are real life. While ignoring every real action that happens. Most people would gladly get but by a zombie
Zestyclose_Lobster91@reddit
Does it really matter if its trump or harris getting shot at the end of the "movie" if you have a civil war in your country?
Many-Ganache79@reddit
Now, finally a good sales pitch!
LuciusMichael@reddit
Miller wants war and Heritage Foundation President Kevin Roberts asserted that a “second American Revolution” will be bloodless “if the left allows it to be.”
So, we are just supposed to be supine and allow ourselves to be steamrolled. Great.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/04/leader-of-the-pro-trump-project-2025-suggests-there-will-be-a-new-american-revolution-00166583
Princess_Actual@reddit
Sure. Said blue states good mobilize their own national guards to oppose this. Officers could resign in protest.
We'll see how it goes, no use hand wringing. Keep training. Train your families. Make sure your supplies are current.
lukaskywalker@reddit
That’s the point. They are setting up for a civil war. Red vs blue. Russia will have us fighting each other before they ever try anything serious
Princess_Actual@reddit
Bingo.
Vensurething@reddit (OP)
They already are.
makk73@reddit
And it is working.
A full half of the country hate immigrants more than they love America.
agent_flounder@reddit
It seems that way by looking at Reddit doesn't it?
And yet in real life, I consistently find that people's views are way more complex and nuanced than on here. 🤔 Or at least the conversations are more nuanced.
I wonder why that is.....
waltwalt@reddit
Reddit is a huge fucking echo cyber curtailed to the individual, if the election didn't reveal this than nothing will.
Pea-and-Pen@reddit
I agree. All of my social media is on Reddit and I truly thought Harris had a decent chance of winning. When Harris was chosen as the candidate I thought it was a terrible idea because I didn’t thought everyone hated her. I hadn’t heard anyone say they liked her the entire Biden presidency, it was all negative. But then once she was the candidate everyone all of a sudden liked her. ( didn’t like either one of them.)
Rugermedic@reddit
I feel the flaw was when Harris was forced into the election without having a primary to elect in the candidate that democrats wanted. She wasn’t voted in, she was forced in. People rejected that.
911ChickenMan@reddit
Biden shit the bed by not stepping down before the primaries and double-downing on his campaign after his abysmal debate performance.
Voters are tired of being told that Biden is in good shape then clearly seeing the opposite on live TV. Voters are tired of being told the economy is fine and jobs numbers are up when they're struggling to live paycheck to paycheck, if they're lucky.
Voters turned out based on that, justified or not.
nic_haflinger@reddit
Trump is a gibbering idiot but do go on about Biden’s age.
911ChickenMan@reddit
Then get onto him for being a gibbering idiot. Don't criticize his age when that's not what you're concerned about, europoor.
expblast105@reddit
You were correct. And everyone with a brain still doesn't like either one of them. We are just content with lowering the bar decade after decade until one day we'll have a reality TV show called "president island" and that's how we'll get our candidates.
HappyAnimalCracker@reddit
😂🎯
klutzikaze@reddit
Now with 80% more ick and fake tan.
HappyAnimalCracker@reddit
I suspect people’s opinion of Harris was relative. Like her better than “xyz”? No. Like her better than “pdq”? You betcha.
Hell, I’m guessing there were a few Trump voters who felt that way. They didn’t like him as much as they would other possible candidates but agreed with him on more stuff than they did with Harris’ platform.
I’ve heard more than a few folks say they didn’t like either candidate, so you’re not alone.
911ChickenMan@reddit
I found it funny in a messed up sort of way that a lot of people took to calling him DonOld after Biden dropped out. Like, weren't these the same people rallying around an 81 year old borderline dementia patient just a few weeks earlier?
Full disclosure: I don't support Trump, Biden, or Kamala. Vermin Supreme all the way.
FrostLeviathan@reddit
I found the opposite to be even funnier. The same people who endlessly ranted about Biden’s mental decline are going to just hand wave Trump’s only obvious decline and inability to string together a coherent thought for the past decade? It’s a grim sign of what this country has come to when we had two 80 year old mentally deficient candidates running for office.
waltwalt@reddit
If rather everyone actually hates her and what we saw was just the Democrats spinning their social media up.
Much better thann the alternative that musk somehow rigged the election.
Akersis@reddit
Thats not a left wing only problem. Check out conservative telegram groups. They are a safe space for every vile, racist, violent, sexist inner thought seeking validation in the conservative mind.
hidegitsu@reddit
While this is true there are also echo chambers on the other side. All perpetuated by Russia and it's working each side is doing what its supposed to.
WilhelmvonCatface@reddit
Is Russia in the room with us right now? Echo chambers are a natural offshoot of social media. Profit incentive is way more powerful than Russia.
hidegitsu@reddit
Both can be true. Just because echo chambers are a by-product of social media and encouraged by the business model doesn't mean Russia isn't also exploiting that same phenomenon for influence and political positioning.
WilhelmvonCatface@reddit
Like turning all of Europe against them?
waltwalt@reddit
Yeah, it's not working the same if their echo chamber got them all to go vote and this echo chamber convince everyone not to vote.
agent_flounder@reddit
No, I think it worked precisely how they wanted. And anyway, dividing the country is a primary goal and they're rocking that one.
Goodright@reddit
Or, here's a thought....posts like this indicating civil war along with a large group of people calling half of the country stupid is divisive.
agent_flounder@reddit
Sure.
You think all the people posting divisive shit are actually Americans? I don't.
Goodright@reddit
Oh I assume there are many who are not. I do know there are Americans who are and they are very divisive alienating half the country.
agent_flounder@reddit
Yes, agreed, and I think many of those have been successfully influenced by a decade or more of influence campaigns from various sources. Targeting everyone. Not just one side of the political spectrum.
Goodright@reddit
The posts on both sides about "us vs them" need to stop. I wish we could not be divided this way and only hope for the best without conspiracy theories and speculation.
Worth_Specific8887@reddit
They'll never see it that way. Too many upvotes causes the brain rot.
agent_flounder@reddit
This guy gets it.
Intricatetrinkets@reddit
It’s almost become unbearable recently. People just repeating what they saw someone more logical than them say, and regurgitating it in another sub. Like Fox News for the left. Hoping it’s mostly bots and we’re not headed the same direction as Trumpers
jesschester@reddit
Thank you for being rational and level headed. I came to share my personal experience in response to the comment above. Although I firmly believe that we need to get the undocumented population under control, I don’t hate immigrants. Not even close. I married a Colombian woman who was living in the US on a student visa, who now has a green card and whose family members are gradually immigrating to the US and becoming residents in their own right via the official route. Among their community, most are opposed to open borders and don’t approve of people entering the country illegally, even though many of those potential border crossers are their own friends and family! To think that they hate them is ridiculous. I’ve personally never heard anyone in real life say anything hateful about immigrants. So I’m just baffled by the assumption that there are only 2 categories of opinion here. That either you believe anyone and everyone has the right to be here no matter what, or that you hate all non-American people and want to kick out anyone who doesn’t look like you. It’s just plain stupid and is wrong. Of the latter group, (the ‘half’ referred to in the comment above) I have a seriously hard time believing that those people make up any more than 10% of the country.
agent_flounder@reddit
Appreciate hearing your thoughts.
I have no issues sorting out undocumented immigrants. On Reddit usually you see simple, extremist replies about this topic along with folks bringing up the various complexities.
So people constantly "talk" past each other. But what is actually happening is they're typically spouting thought ending cliches, or saying phrases that trigger the opposite side, making assumptions about what the other actually believes, reacting with strawman (e.g., "so you want to kill all the immigrants?!?!?!" ... "So you want to let all our children get abducted by criminals?!?!!!?!")
There is so much bad faith discussion that part of the issue is people get tired of being lured into interactions that rapidly devolve into bullshit it makes the bad faith discussion worse.
Now, considering there is ample evidence of social media influence campaigns at least some of which is intended to sow discord, one might think more than a few Reddit accounts feed the worst perceptions one group has of another.
jesschester@reddit
The rage bait is insane on socials and Reddit in particular. And you’re right that a major portion of it is not organic. I’d like to know how much of it is foreign disinformation agents, vs. How much is our own domestic institutions. Both have strong incentives to keep us divided. It’s a shame that so many people fall into this trap and form their whole perception of the general attitude that way.
OMGitsDusk@reddit
I have conversations about current politics and current affairs, either the people that support trump have no idea what's being said online, don't care about it, or they know and don't care and or they know and don't want to publicly say it yet.
I've confronted people I work with who talk politics about some of the more extreme things trump has said over the last year, they either find ways to make it "okay", they say something like "oh I haven't heard that, I'll have to look into that." Or the one I've gotten more recently and more often "I don't want to talk about that at work."
The internet breaks down the conversation past the fluff and into the meat and potatoes, people have a tendency to more openly speak their thoughts and feelings on the internet.
Given the way people have been acting and talking since the election, I would wager that yes, a civil war is exactly what some people want.
There are also many people who truly genuinely believe trump is good for them and the country. They wholeheartedly believe trump is good for them and refuse to believe anything else, won't even listen to a dissenting opinion. There is a cult, it is real, I've seen it first hand.
Absinthe_Parties@reddit
Of course people don't want to their facts from social media. It is saturated with propaganda. Reddit is extreme left leaning, so I don't really know what meat and potatoes you are referring to. If you dont align with the left on reddit you are downvoted to hell and called a fascist. Nobody wants to engage on here because if you dont align with the echo chamber your opinion doesn't matter. I disagree with almost everything you typed here. The majority of the people are much more middle-of-the-road than you give them credit for. You just don't see that on Reddit, at all.
OMGitsDusk@reddit
You can disagree all you want that still doesn't change the facts.
I interact with 3-400 people everyday from all backgrounds and all walks of life.
You see what you look for on Reddit.
And sorry you feel that way but if you align yourself with a guy who click 9/10 fascist boxes then maybe you're a fascist sympathizer.
justsomedude1776@reddit
Any dissenting opinion, even a polite one, results in you immediately assuming the person making the statement is evil, so you can justify hating them. Which is EXACTLY what the person you were talking to said was commonplace here. Within the span of 3 comments, you proved him unequivocally correct.
OMGitsDusk@reddit
I'm not going to fold on the point of alienating actual fascists who support actual fascist leaders. This isn't some rhetoric or talking points. These are the facts as presented to me by Donald Trump himself.
Absinthe_Parties@reddit
Right. I think this conversation has run its course. Another woke asshole calling anyOne that doesnt 100% align with your fantasy a fascist.
Aggressive-Ad3286@reddit
I personally cant stand trump the person, but with Elon at his side I do believe Trump as president is much better for the country then a Democrat puppet.
OMGitsDusk@reddit
Trump is a puppet. You fail to see that.
National-Wolverine-1@reddit
When I taught English in Korea little Kim had just burst onto the scene and was rattling the saber. The locals seemed oblivious. I wasn’t worried until I started watching western news. Then after a while I got real worried and asked my Korean coworkers about it. They just shrugged and said something like, “It must be Tuesday again.” and went back to work.
Unhappy-Farmer8627@reddit
First off, 27 percent of the population voted in the 2024 election. Of the 26 percent like 38 percent voted maga. That’s less than ten percent of our population. I don’t find it surprising that they found that percentage of people with those beliefs but it’s not everyone. Most people don’t care don’t vote and don’t pay attention. If that waddling national security threat trump manages 1/4 of his plans people will start paying attention which won’t be good for him.
Worth_Specific8887@reddit
That's horse shit.
makk73@reddit
Is it?
Worth_Specific8887@reddit
Yes. It is.
makk73@reddit
How so?
Worth_Specific8887@reddit
Wanting a strong border does not equate hating immigrants or America.
RealCalintx@reddit
So why was the strong border bill shot down by MAGA at the orders of Trump?
Goodright@reddit
Because it was a terrible bill that several Democrats also shut down. Although, I am sure you know the details of the bill, otherwise you wouldn't have commented this...
RealCalintx@reddit
What was terrible about it? Any sections or pages you don’t particularly like?
Goodright@reddit
That bill was pretty straightforward. They would grant people crossing illegally a parole status with a hearing date into the country. It was essentially opening up the flood gates with people being able to enter in this temporary status instead of sending them back to wait to get into the country.
RealCalintx@reddit
Can you list exactly where on the legislation that’s stated, the clauses and internal/external resolutions and costs of those implications you mentioned?
Goodright@reddit
Or, can YOU list exactly where and why on the proposal specifically you believe the bill to be a strong one?
RealCalintx@reddit
“Uhhh you do your research! Even though you obviously have and called me out on my lack of original thought outside of FOX et al!” 🤡
anacondra@reddit
There's one group they hate more than immigrants. Democrats.
Amerisu@reddit
No, but deporting legal immigrants and denaturalizing citizens does.
Worth_Specific8887@reddit
Deporting ILLEGALS?! lmao.
So it's wide open borders with no vetting process you want? Holy fucking hell people. This kind of talk only happens on reddit.
HappyAnimalCracker@reddit
I don’t know if you’re aware of this, but applying for asylum in the US requires that you first attain US soil. People have come here, crossed the border to attain US soil as directed, and immediately handed themselves over to border patrol explaining that they were seeking asylum, only to be placed in detention and classified as an illegal immigrant.
Worth_Specific8887@reddit
Not sure what point you are trying to make.
HappyAnimalCracker@reddit
This is the vetting process under Trump. All the cases of this that I’m aware of happened under Trump. People can follow every rule and law trying to come here and still be called ILLEGALS by people such as yourself.
If you don’t see the point I’m making, perhaps it’s because it’s not about legal or illegal to you. Because it sounds like you just want them gone.
Worth_Specific8887@reddit
That's just what you are trying to hear.
I don't live in a fantasy world where gangs, human trafficking, and drug cartels don't exist. We NEED a vetting process and there are plenty of people that should not ever be welcome here.
HappyAnimalCracker@reddit
I don’t live in such a world either. Immigrants aren’t the big monolithic bogeyman you think, tho. The issue is more nuanced than you dismissively make it out to be.
Tell me, what do you think happens to those lawful applicants described above? Many were sent to Mexico to suffer being trafficked and killed regardless of what country they came from. Many were assaulted here and had their children stolen from them and disappeared into the system. Oops, we lost em!
I don’t really hear you caring about what happens to them and you don’t seem to see that coming here through the proper channels isn’t always as viable as you seem to think.
agent_flounder@reddit
Deporting illegals is one thing. But I doubt any decent person wants to deport legal immigrants. That's insane.
creddit-check@reddit
Decent people no…deplorable and other garbage people no problem
Worth_Specific8887@reddit
Get over your loss already and get your mind right. Stop being radical. That's why Trump is back in office. You all fought the wrong fight, clearly
Amerisu@reddit
May have been the losing fight. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.
creddit-check@reddit
Oh, I’m well over it. What you thought was the fight was the actual compromise. You should enjoy all the “wInNiNg” now because the actual fight has yet to come.
Worth_Specific8887@reddit
Oh go cry. Pick a sports team to root for instead. Politics obviously mess with your psyche and emotions too much.
I guess as long as you have an overcensored reddit echo chamber to piss and moan into you'll feel better about yourself. Enjoy that.
creddit-check@reddit
That’s actually super hurtful because all my sports teams suck at the moment hence why im on prepper board having some rando project their fragile emotions on me. Hope you have a little foam keyboard for your bunker so you can rage type your sage life tips to help pass the time.
Worth_Specific8887@reddit
I'm not the one scared in a bunker. And I'm not trying to project an imaginary civil war.
creddit-check@reddit
Sorry for the confusion, the foam keyboard/bunker line was alluding to the prep theme of this sub and an imagined scenario wherein you were hunkered down with a propensity for dishing out unsolicited life advice. Never said you were scared nor projected a civil war - that is all in your mind. The sports team business really did cross the line though.
Amerisu@reddit
I don't think you know how to read. I referred to them wanting to deport legal immigrants.
You know, like Jack's Filipina wife, or those international students. And denaturalizing American citizens.
makk73@reddit
You and I both know good and god damned well that this isn’t about a “strong border” for most MAGA voters.
Worth_Specific8887@reddit
Do you know every MAGA voter? You are making broad assumptions about millions of Americans that you've never spoken a single word to.
makk73@reddit
I have spoken many words to many of them as I’m sure you have as well.
Don’t play dumb.
HappyAnimalCracker@reddit
I don’t think he’s playing.
Chrono_Pregenesis@reddit
What does a "strong border" mean?
Chrono_Pregenesis@reddit
Actually, it does in the US.
Worth_Specific8887@reddit
We allow immigration. Stop letting emotions steer your thought process.
Chrono_Pregenesis@reddit
Says the person letting emotions steer their thought process
Worth_Specific8887@reddit
That's really the best you got. With the, "I know you are but what am I?"
Chrono_Pregenesis@reddit
It was the best you had, so I was only matching your intellectual level.
Tell me, what does a "strong border" mean to you?
Worth_Specific8887@reddit
No. I stated a fact about immigration.
Chrono_Pregenesis@reddit
Congrats. What does a strong border mean to you?
Dangerous-Sort-6238@reddit
Rounding up people to put them in detention camps is the very definition of hate! I almost wish heaven was real, so I could watch you assholes explain at the pearly gates that you had no choice but to be cruel to the person with different colored skin. And of course, love the neighbors has geographical boundaries. And why in the world would you shelter the suffering?
Lmao. We all see who you really are. You guys can act like you’re the moral leader, but even you know you’re full of shit.
Worth_Specific8887@reddit
Go straight to insulting christianity while you preach about hate. Unbelievable.
Johnny-Unitas@reddit
Just curious, how did that person insult christianity?
Chrono_Pregenesis@reddit
Nothing says hate like Christian love.
agent_flounder@reddit
I don't think that was an insult to Christianity but an insult to people who claim to be Christian who don't follow the gospel. (See: good Samaritan among others.. I can make a list of verses to study if you like)
lukaskywalker@reddit
Have you been paying any attention.
boof_tongue@reddit
70 million people is actually about 1/5 of the countries population. There are more non-voters than all voters combined.
MentulaMagnus@reddit
…and libs
ExoticPumpkin237@reddit
Russia is a fucking barely functional country falling apart at the seams currently. I'm so sick of this insane fear mongering saying Russia has some illuminati master plan to invade Europe when they can't even take Kiev.
The US has its own internal problems to deal with, and our rich rulers have been pitting us against one another way before Putin was even a twinkle in his daddies eye. Deal with those internal problems and you wouldn't even have to worry about Russian disinfo or whatever, but no all we can do in this country is kick the can down the road and keep people bickering and stupid.
No surprise they lost control of the levers when a guy like Trump comes along.
lukaskywalker@reddit
Pretty naive to not realize that for a country barely functioning they seem to still be meddling on the global stage as much as they are. I agree they are practically a failed state at this point. But doesn’t cost a lot to force done prisoners to run a troll factory to push narratives that gullible Americans fall for. You’re overestimating how easy it really is.
tss1984@reddit
This. Russia and China are sitting back waiting for America to eat itself… and when it’s fully distracted… all of Americas enemies will come knocking.
HopDropNRoll@reddit
This person gets it. Vlad ripped us in two without firing a single shot.
Absinthe_Parties@reddit
we did it to ourselves.
HopDropNRoll@reddit
Inaccurate, mostly. We’ve always (recent history) had 2 parties.
Now we (and governments) have unfettered access to the masses via social media and Russia has absolutely been engaged in a propaganda campaign on both sides. That’s a fact.
We’re definitely eroding our education system which is certainly at play, so we did some of it to ourselves.
Absinthe_Parties@reddit
Russia could have a small hand in helping, but make no mistake. We allow it, listen to it, regurgitate it, and run with it. and it's not just russia. Reddit is worse than russia at creating division. We most definately did this to ourselves.
realityunderfire@reddit
Are you on Facebook at all? My feed is literally nothing but Right wing and Left wing propaganda. I presume 90% of it is produced at the hands of russian troll farms. A lot of the posts are even labeled “satire” and still people are in the comments arguing. Russias greatest weapon against the USA has been social media. It’s allowed them to inflame, instigate and amplify social divisions. Yes, we have a hand in it to by feeding into it. But social media has allowed them to accelerate processes that used to take 15-25 years and cut it down to the same amount of damage in an election cycle and now the stream is flowing 24/7.
Absinthe_Parties@reddit
I do have facebook and i must be an anomaly. I have ZERO facebook friends posting right wing stuff. I consider myself middle of the road, maybe slightly right so maybe the algorithm just isnt hitting me? I do see a lot of whining and doom porn from some of liberal friends, but as a whole my facebook is really tame. Reddit is a cesspool, however. Has to be bots, the amount of left wing hate is absolutely insane.
realityunderfire@reddit
It’s not “friends” posting, it’s russian troll farms / bots posting AI photos of divisive cultural topics. The sauce is in the comments where everyone is fighting amongst themselves.
HopDropNRoll@reddit
I think you may underestimate the volume and effectiveness of social media disinfo campaigns - but in that sense I think we’re conceptually in agreement if not semantically opposed. We definitely consume and regurgitate, but without the disinformation campaign, we’d be less likely to do wild stuff like storm the capital. I appreciate the civil discourse.
Absinthe_Parties@reddit
I am in no way saying there isn't a foreign propaganda machine at work. I'm sure there has been since the "cold war", but just being out in public and listening to the hatred for fellow americans over red team vs. blue team. it's absolutely insane. divided right down the middle, too. Imagine how much better this country could be if we saw each other as being on the same team. But we fly our red and blue flags and vomit absurd BS on social media far more than any foreign entity. And don't get me started on political attack ads - could write a damn book on that topic.
And yes, I think we are more aligned than not in this "discourse".
HappyAnimalCracker@reddit
Sped up by appointments like DeVos during the first term
I_like_the_word_MUFF@reddit
And the Republicans will have started it as the treasonous cult they have become.
fatastronaut@reddit
Russia? My brother in christ this is a purely an American problem. If anything, Russia just capitalized on our highly deregulated tech industry to tailor the slop that gets fed to us through social media.
lukaskywalker@reddit
Of course that’s a massive part of it man. The majority of their plan is disinformation. Create distrust in our systems. Divide and conquer.
Nattydaddydystopia69@reddit
Russia? Are you retarded? They can’t even take over Ukraine and they have some master plan to initiate a Civil War?
Malcolm_Morin@reddit
Shit, Leave the World Behind was a documentary after all.
CAredditBoss@reddit
Yeah.
We are Americans. Don’t let them pull this division bs.
UpstairsAd4755@reddit
There won't be a civil war so illegals can continue to live in the u.s., that would be the dumbest shit imaginable
Equivalent_Judge2373@reddit
Dummie it will be a civil war to protect palestine from genocide obviously.
lukaskywalker@reddit
Too late.
Warped_Mindless@reddit
That’s not how it works. Once the president activates a guard unit of a state, he’s in control of that state.
California governor can say “you aren’t using my guard unit” and the president just has to say “well they are activated and mine now.” The guard is only under the states command when not federally activated. Ultimately all National Guard units are part of the military and the president regardless of who the president is is the commander in chief of all military units..
Famous_Method_2159@reddit
Each governor, officer and guardsman is going to have to make a very important choice if an illegal order like "grab so-called immigrants for deportation" comes down.
The moment Trump gave such an order he created a constitutional crisis. We won't preserve a constitutional order, or ultimately preserve lives, without planting our feet and saying "no"
Strange-Initiative63@reddit
Sure but they then can't be deployed in the state without permission of the Governor. That's an invasion.
Dense_Ad1118@reddit
That’s called treason.
Jswimmin@reddit
Lol starting to sound a lot like those traitorous confederates aren't you?
ZenythhtyneZ@reddit
Uh yeah? That’s called a civil war
Princess_Actual@reddit
"Special civil disturbance".
malan231@reddit
When a person breaks federal law the federal government can go into any state and arrest that person. Nothing a governor can do.
Cockamungas@reddit
Libs about to change their stance on gun control 😂
Important_Coach4368@reddit
They can simply disobey unlawful order that is in the UCMJ
gr3m777@reddit
welp, as a FORMER republican, I can and will use my arms to defend against tyranny if it comes to it. fuck this commie MAGA bullshit. dont get me wrong, the old repubs werent perfect, but MAGA is a dangerous cult.
Legal-Bluejay-7555@reddit
Could they just federalize national guards in reluctant states?
TerminallyBlitzed@reddit
Yes, to an extent. The governor still needs to consent to it because national guard troops belong to the state. National guard troops swear an oath to their state governors and the constitution instead of the president of the United States.
911ChickenMan@reddit
Couldn't the federal government just strong-arm them into it anyway? That's how the drinking age was raised to 21 nationwide. Each state gets to set it individually, but they lose federal highway funding if it's below 21.
nic_haflinger@reddit
In this imaginary scenario as a blue stater I would enjoy not paying my federal taxes, which is what a lot of people would start doing.
Usual-Turnip-7290@reddit
Depends…if the plan is to wage war on the states citizens, they’re not going to capitulate for highway funding.
TerminallyBlitzed@reddit
That’s exactly what they do.
makes_peacock_noises@reddit
That’s how they kept marijuana illegal for so long
Legal-Bluejay-7555@reddit
I thought a president could deploy them under title 10 or title 32? I thought that changed with the national defense act of 1916. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Act_of_1916
TerminallyBlitzed@reddit
Title 10 is when national guard troops are federalized and under complete control of national guard units. Title 32 is when national guard troops are activated and in control of their respective states, but they’re fulfilling a federal mission.
The president can pretty much force governors to comply with title 10 by threatening them financially and cutting off federal funding, but they still have to agree to it. There’s some ongoing debate about it in the court systems iirc
thechaddening@reddit
Those blue states pay more in federal funding than they get near-universally though. Hard to threaten California with cutting off funding when they subsidize half the nation and the entire country would go bankrupt without Californias money.
your_anecdotes@reddit
California is bankrupted already -$55 billion in the hole..
KlappinMcBoodyCheeks@reddit
Wait till you discover the national debt. Eeks.
thechaddening@reddit
California is nearly 15% of the US GDP and is the second most efficient state in the country as far as tax dollars contributed vs received.
So you're literally just dumb, which is cool.
Novel_Paramedic_2625@reddit
The governors dont have to agree to it. If the guard was to be federalized, they can bypass the governor entirely (its rare but can happen).
TerminallyBlitzed@reddit
The only way the president can bypass this is with invoking the insurrection act. There’s always caveats
HappyAnimalCracker@reddit
Oh god wouldn’t that be the ultimate irony- Trump invoking the insurrection act on others.
StuartShlongbottom@reddit
Stranger things...
jot_down@reddit
That's why they are saying the want to activate them in red states to go into the blue states.
Novel_Paramedic_2625@reddit
No, as a guardsman of 7 years, we swear an oath to both the state/governor and the president. Federal authority takes precedence over state authority.
TerminallyBlitzed@reddit
You may be mistaken. I was also a guardsmen for 6 years. When you go to MEPS they specifically tell national guard not to swear the oath to the president and instead you swear an other to your states governor.
It’s literally “…and that I will obey the orders of the [President (Active Duty) / Governor of STATE)] and order of the officers appointed over me”
Novel_Paramedic_2625@reddit
Np! Thanks for your service brother!
That-Condition9243@reddit
Also, LOL, where will the soldiers be housed? Third Amendment, what up!
Trump already tried this nonsense, I know it's hard to remember all the treacherous junk he's done. https://www.businessinsider.com/third-amendment-new-relevant-thanks-to-trump-military-us-cities-2020-6
KeepItUnderTheRadar@reddit
Let’s do it!
Adorable_Ad_5869@reddit
But not illegal, mmmm liberal tears
ZarinaBlue@reddit
Why do people always assume blue states are going to hide in their closets?
As I stated on another group when I saw this... does anyone want to tell these red state weirdos what "Constitutional Carry" was originally called?
They are lying to themselves if they don't think this will end worse for them.
Inner-Employee-8490@reddit
I'll take "not gonna happen" for $500, Alex. Sure hope this is a double.
Old-Bug-2197@reddit
Illegal
Ho_Advice_8483@reddit
Trump can’t and won’t deport every illegal alien. Ain’t happening. I hope they just deport criminals first then set up a program or path to citizenship for the hard working normal illegal aliens. Pay a fine swear allegiance to the USA and stay outta trouble for 10 years. Do everything a foreigner does to get citizenship and pay to stay.
Miserable_Ant7406@reddit
It's good to see the democrats double down on one of the major issues that lost them the house, the senate, and the presidency.
Pristine_Fail_5208@reddit
Good luck trying that shit in Philadelphia. Rednecks are about to fucking find out
PlentyBat9940@reddit
Every single defense of immigration I have seen comes down to “who is going to do the low paying hard labor jobs” and to me that is just the same as saying “we have to have access to an exploitable, near disposable work force” and that sounds ALOT like slavery.
Warped_Mindless@reddit
The solution is simple but neither side wants it’s.
Have special permits for people who aren’t citizens but wants to fast track their way to legal citizenship. It’s a work permit basically for “low skilled workers.” You come in, pick fruit for x number of months or years, stay out of trouble, and learn out laws. Then if you do all that you are granted citizenship. If caught here illegally with no permit, you get deported.
The fruit still gets picked, hardworking immigrants gets citizenship, we don’t have to keep criminals that want to contribute nothing inside our border. Win/win.
lyonslicer@reddit
This was explicitly proposed by the Democrats and the Republicans shut it down immediately.
Warped_Mindless@reddit
If I remember right that bill had other things attached to it. This is what I dislike and both parties do it. They will propose some bill about a specific topic or problem, but then attach to the bill in fine print a bunch of other unrelated stuff in “fine print” essentially that they know the other side will oppose to.
It should be one bill, one topic. Stop cramming other shit in there. Both sides are guilty and it needs to stop.
elpovo@reddit
How you can read the above and think that "both sides are guilty" rubbish is beyond me.
Writing_is_Bleeding@reddit
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/118/hr91
lyonslicer@reddit
Oh I definitely agree with you there.
inorite234@reddit
Because they win on vilifying fhd problem. Democrats aren't better as they have their tails between their legs and are too scared to try and solve the problem.
vulkoriscoming@reddit
They already have a farm labor visa. It is an H1a Visa
Addi2266@reddit
The infrastructure of out country was built by generation of immagrents under slave conditions or similar. It's nothing new .
PlentyBat9940@reddit
Sure it was, and utilizing the hindsight glasses of 2024 it seems heinous and we shouldn’t keep doing it. If we expect people to come to the country to work, we should provide avenues for them to do it in a manner where they won’t be at such risk of being exploited.
I don’t want anyone to think my first post was anti immigration it was 100% against the system of abuse these people are subjected to.
Addi2266@reddit
Capitalism roll maximize value at the expense of human suffering. The regulatory capture today is going to allow for levls unseen in our lives.
LastHopeOfTheLeft@reddit
Immigration in and of itself is a necessity for the American economy, and I wouldn’t doubt that illegal immigration is just as important. To me however, that’s an argument for more work visas or an easier pathway to citizenship, they’re literally propping up our economy and we want them to leave??? Are we fucking stupid???
Past_Search7241@reddit
They're not. They're propping up the farms that exploit them.
LastHopeOfTheLeft@reddit
Do you have any idea what would happen to this country if those farms couldn’t produce enough food? Do you realize that the USA is the largest food exporter in the world? Have you got even the slightest inkling how bad the people of the world would suffer if American farms failed on mass?
I don’t support companies taking advantage of undocumented workers, and I regularly advocate for more work visas and an easier path to citizenship for immigrants in otherwise good standing with the law. But you can’t just let those farms fail, it would be a catastrophe of global proportions.
Fast_Ad765@reddit
Wow. What a fucking moron. First off, they get paid. Second, even with the amount of undocumented people in the country, we still need labor. They arent “taking our jobs” theyre filling sorely needed roles because the labor force isnt large enough.
Let in more immigrants, legally, pay them fairly and get them insured.
PlentyBat9940@reddit
Wow you completely argued against points I wasn’t making, good job champ.
MrD3a7h@reddit
We are viewing all these problems through the lens of late-stage Capitalism, which inherently requires cheap labor to exploit.
Given the results of our last election, we're a long way from fixing that particular problem.
Orbital_Vagabond@reddit
I mean, you're just so close to figuring out America.
If you think eggs were expensive before, just wait.
es_crow@reddit
i didnt know immigrnts laid egg
Striper_Cape@reddit
You know what's actually slavery? Rounding them up and working fields without being paid at all.
They also want to end Birthright citizenship and be able to de-naturalize citizens. You aren't properly thinking about the situation in an intersecting manner. Let's say they remove my mother's citizenship and if my mom isn't a citizen, and there's no birthright citizenship, then I'm not a citizen either. So I'm illegal and can be deported.
PlentyBat9940@reddit
Sounds good to me.
Striper_Cape@reddit
You threatening me, fucker?
swallowedbymonsters@reddit
Slaves didn't want to work for low wages or be "owned" by other humans. Bad comparison
Fast-Independence998@reddit
You aren’t wrong. I also try and direct that anger towards “The bosses hire them. These companies who take subsidies choose people who have no choice but to work for 1/6th you’d make for minimum wage to do these jobs. Those folks are being taken advantage of the same as you or me, but in this case it’s their labor and their money.”
Striper_Cape@reddit
I certainly don't want some asshole from bumfuck Alabama or Idaho showing up in my State with a gun, kiwi wax smeared on their teeth.
Mysterious-City-8038@reddit
As someone who lives in Idaho, I'm preparing to flee to a blue state with my children when it all goes down. I am extremely well armed, have food and advanced medical supplies/training. I will be joining the national guard or joining the ranks of local militia to resist the fascist occupation.
Past_Search7241@reddit
Ooh, a loot drop.
Mysterious-City-8038@reddit
Your funny. I have combat experience. Your gonna be the loot drop when I drop you from 800 yards out with my 300 win mag. Good luck buddy
Past_Search7241@reddit
Watch out, everybody. We got us a badass here!
Striper_Cape@reddit
Better do it soon
Ok-Umpire-7439@reddit
teeth scratchers at my door smh
SyllabubOk5349@reddit
If you are in a blue state that has banned semi automatic rifles. I have a hinkling your upset feelings won’t matter. Hopefully you got armed up before the bans! If you aren’t a gun owner good luck standing up to the national guard. I think my state banned regulated militias. Which is unfortunate because that militia could protect the citizens from unconstitutional use of the military.
Creature1124@reddit
The national guard is a regulated militia.
Pesty_Merc@reddit
Legally distinct from a militia.
Creature1124@reddit
They are an organized militia as defined by the militia act of 1903.
The problem is the concept of militia has been stretched in meaning to almost not exist anymore. If the president can federalize them, much less without consent from the governor, does it really matter if they are called a militia most of the time?
phovos@reddit
oh look it's a pathetic human with a gun
so anyways there was this smeared corpse on the pavement - what a dumbass.
matthewjboothe@reddit
As a liberal in Alabama, we may not get much of a choice. If that happens I’ll probably be a refugee.
556-NATO@reddit
What is kiwi wax?
Striper_Cape@reddit
Boot Polish.
Unfair_Holiday_3549@reddit
Chewing tobacco?
Loeden@reddit
Yep, can't imagine any people in any state putting up with this. We're so tribal that if they did this even completely tuned-out people would be losing their shit even if they generally agreed with other policies. It's dumb as hell.
They'd do better to use the copious supply of sympathetic collaborators or something.
ZenythhtyneZ@reddit
These people live in your neighborhood… you just have to hope it’s a minority
IWantAStorm@reddit
The ones in my neighborhood can be blown over by a stiff breeze.
IWantAStorm@reddit
Excellent shoe polish reference.
Temporary-Cap1881@reddit
Can we say The Gestapo and the SS? That was one of the first things that Hitler had created shortly after he was appointed as chancellor. That's what this kind of "red state army" would essentially be. People continue to think that this won't happen in America, but people in Germany also thought the same until it happened there. In fact, a large number of Germans didn't believe that the genocide of holocaust was happening until they were forced to view the bodies. It started with persecution, the deportations, and then finally the massive enslavement and murder of anyone who didn't fit the Nazi ideals.
KodaKomp@reddit
Were not paying crazy level war reparations, we are not in 500% inflation, mass malnutrition is not happening we don't have 1mil+ PTSDd veterans from a world war with nothing to lose. Were too lazy and comfortable for anything like this to happen right now.
Look at how the East India Trading Company controlled India, they pitted the groups against each other while they gobbled up profits. Americans have way more in common than we have differences so the hot topics we have been arguing are just the low hanging fruit to distract us from billionaires harvesting every ounce of free cash and labor they can from us.
Temporary-Cap1881@reddit
What we do have is a large portion of Trump supporters, including exmilitary, who are willing to commit violence against those who are different or who oppose Trump. If they follow through on creating a "red state army," then it will be exactly like the Gestapo. I hope that Americans will not follow non-nazi germans who let their apathy stop them from standing up for their neighbors.
KodaKomp@reddit
Ok that's maybe 1% of the population that are fanatics like that and most who are, live in luxury and would have to give all that up. when push comes to shove corporate power will back the status quo anyway " real politik". The billionaires keep us fighting each other over dumb shit like this so we don't realize it's them who see us as, Stalin would say... A statistic, and use us as cattle. Your redneck cousin or uncle is not the enemy it's big tech, big pharma, oil execs, etc. why do you think California is so pro immigration? Not out of altruism it's out of greed and cheap labor for the farming corporations.
Own-Blueberry-8616@reddit
Just gives me goosebumps! Having our country back, safe and harmonious instead of endless chaos 🤗
Bethanybuddy@reddit
They really think we are just going sit by and let them destroy our homeland! Wow! God help them!
verge365@reddit
Didn’t the nazis do this?
mortalitylost@reddit
So this shit is honestly pretty scary how close it is.
At first it really was just some nationalist party that was all about their country, and uniting everyone who speaks German. They blamed a lot of their problems on Jews. They promised to deport them en masse, and people were very supportive, and people weren't questioning where they went, how they were treated.
This is awfully fucking close to the situation we have. We have your maga nationalist party that is blaming the bulk of our issues on illegal immigrants and foreigners. It is made to be about "illegals", but they're talking about denaturalization and making currently legal people, illegal. Biggest target are those that are here and don't speak English.
So they are going to get all the military involved, raid other states force everyone to give up their ~~Jews~~ illegals and fuck with anyone with a rainbow flag. And where do those people go? They get "deported". Well, to move tens of millions of people, you need camps. You need guards. Walls. And those detention camps start being awfully convenient as death camps, especially when it's easier to dig a mass grave than deal with shipping millions of people to Mexico.
If this shit really starts happening, I would not be surprised if we end up with death camps. You can't just get rid of tens of millions of people without... Getting rid of them.
KodaKomp@reddit
We are not in Weimar levels of financial doom....yet. to start anything like this. We are not being forced into financial slavery from other nations as war reparations and we don't have large amounts of PTSDd veterans who have nothing to lose either. Everyone keeps looking at Nazism in a vacuum when, if it was not Hitler it would have been someone else. Trump is another Regan and in 4-8 years when the DNC finally gets all the old guard to finally give up the reigns we will have another Clinton to bring another decade of hope and the cycle repeats. Were not suffering enough to trade our comforts for a proverbial societal apocalypse.
ExoticPumpkin237@reddit
You don't even need to go back to Nazi Germany necessarily when it's already happened in the USA.. Liebensraum was a direct copy of Manifest Destiny.
verge365@reddit
I see them removing the equal rights law before making it illegal to be gay. I know Biden is trying to push judges through. I don’t think they will deport gay people. I do think our nation will revert back to those horrible retraining practices and chemical castration. Unless that gay person is a Daca or a dreamer or some other classification this criminal fascist new government thinks of.
I really hope that the judges in the lower courts can stop this madness for the two years that it’s going to take before we can vote in New Democrats to bring back balance or something
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/11/11/politics/biden-senate-democrats-judicial-nominees
StormPoppa@reddit
Trump's a nazi? Never heard that one before.
Bacontoad@reddit
Book recommendation: They Thought They Were Free (1955)
pizza_box_technology@reddit
Read a few days ago after having it on my list for a while, definitely, definitely worth a read right now.
WittyDefense41@reddit
Asking people to immigrate legally and pay taxes like everyone else is straight out of a Hitler speech. I’m so scared right now!
Impossible_Range6953@reddit
African dictatorships do this all the time. bring in armed forces from opposite regions often different ethnic and/or cultural backgrounds to clean up. That way there is no emotional attachment.
verge365@reddit
Yeah I’ve followed a couple of the take overs. It’s incredibly inhumane. I just don’t understand how humans can do this to each other.
bootsmade4Walken@reddit
Right. When Trump does it, he'll ship the nat'l guard all over the place. Maine will go to Florida, Arizona to Iowa, Iowa to Arizona and vice versa. Why do you think we have such a great highway system?
mortalitylost@reddit
Still are
butterfish2@reddit
Pretty similar
SickCallRanger007@reddit
I don’t think most of this will come to pass, because who’s actually gonna go knock on doors?Despite what Reddit says, I don’t think most people who voted for Trump this year are necessarily bona fide MAGA Trump supporters. Just like voting Democrat doesn’t necessarily mean you’re far-left and itching to “seize the means of production.” That includes the military.
As for civilians… Most people are too moderate, too aloof and/or have too much at stake or are just plain too physically and mentally unfit to dive balls-deep into a Nazi-style takeover. I immigrated to the US and did Army time to set myself up, imo life in America is pretty cush. It would be very against human nature to throw that away just because, point blank, we’re quite lazy and very used to our convenient lifestyles as a culture.
KodaKomp@reddit
Exactly, it's not bad enough for most people to be bothered to care enough.
CaramelMeowchiatto@reddit
Honestly I think most people just voted their wallets. Once the price increases from tariffs/lost labor hit, he may have much less public support than he thinks. I have no doubt he’ll do some big deportations, but if they start trying to denaturalize people like Stephen miller wants, they will likely lose a lot of support.
Writing_is_Bleeding@reddit
Let's hope so. The problem is they have a massive disinfo machine that obviously works very well.
KodaKomp@reddit
So can east California finally get back up and we leave coastal California? Where do I sign?
Timely-Bill735@reddit
If you look at the map of all the counties Trump won, we all want a drastic change so if you didn’t vote for Trump, sit down and watch what happens! People will be exposed of wrongdoing and at the end, this country will be much better !!!
Pretty_Whole_4967@reddit
Where can I find this article
WrenchMonkey47@reddit
Remember that time when Governor DeSantis created a State Guard (which many other states have also) and everyone freaked out said he was creating a private army/gestappo? And then nothing bad happened?
Yeah, same thing here.
Please stop the fear-mongering about everything. Trump isn't even in office yet. Relax. Take a deep breath. Keep an open mind.
BlueLikeCat@reddit
Are trying to “groom” us into being complacent with the destruction of our country and its progress since 1776?
WrenchMonkey47@reddit
No, just trying to stay objective to the reality. You cannot make the best informed decisions when you have preconceived notions in your head. But hey, if you think the world is ending because a guy you don't like won the election, you do you.
I personally don't care to change anyone's mind at this point, because those infected with TDS are going to think what they think, regardless of the reality. I make decisions based on actual conditions, not irrational preconceived notions.
bruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh@reddit
the word “private” is doing a lot pf heavy lifting there. it is alarming but not accurate to call this idea a private army
Tuckermfker@reddit
Anyone who thinks Coloradans would let Texas National Guard into Colorado to do something like this hasn't met anyone from Colorado.
ScienceNLaw@reddit
Nope!
Past_Search7241@reddit
Oh, I get it now. This is one of those ironic subreddits.
Flat_Boysenberry1669@reddit
If the left wants to die on the illegal hill that's fine just remember the majority of Americans want illegals deported and there's no reason to allow them other than they benefit huge corporations at the tax layers expense.
swallowedbymonsters@reddit
You've been told to hate immigrants
Past_Search7241@reddit
Immigrants and illegals are two different things. You should probably try to understand the red voter if you want to try telling him what he thinks.
Flat_Boysenberry1669@reddit
No I don't want illegals like anyone in any nation ever.
This whole if you're against illegals you're anti immigrant is just your deep seeded racism thinking all immigrants are illegal.
imothro@reddit
Stephen Miller, the man quoted in this piece, has stated that the intent is to DEPORT NATURALIZED CITIZENS. Those are legal citizens of the country who did things the right way. They have built a denaturalization office to strip citizens of their citizenship and kick them out.
What other motive can be implied than racism at that point?
Source: https://x.com/StephenM/status/1712094935820780029
Please explain how you justify this in your stated worldview.
Flat_Boysenberry1669@reddit
Did you even read what you posted?
It's funny because it's actually racism why you want illegals here.
imothro@reddit
You didn't answer the question.
How does deporting legal American citizens make sense in your worldview?
imothro@reddit
Why do you hate immigrants so much that you're fine killing Americans to deport them? That's what I don't get. Your hatred matters to you more than your country.
Flat_Boysenberry1669@reddit
I don't hate legal immigrants I even wanna make it easier for them to become citizens.
Nobody has to be killed deporting illegals that's your racism and Insanity talking lol.
Wanting illegals means you hate America not me.
imothro@reddit
I posted another link showing you the plans to deport legal American citizens and asked how you justify that. You refused to answer and turned to personal attacks.
I asked you why it's okay to go to war with legal american citizens to deport illegals. You refused to answer that too and once again turned to personal attacks.
So this is a bad faith conversation where you are arguing strawmen that don't exist and just spewing hate left and right. It's very sad that it's come to this.
daviddjg0033@reddit
There is no chaos at the border. The "migrant caravans" are not coming. Lets make a problem where there is none Florida alone will lose billions. Remember these people pay into Social Security and cannot claim benefits
makk73@reddit
The social security shortfall will be massive.
Past_Search7241@reddit
I can't imagine the illegals getting paid under the table and/or far less than Americans are contributing all that much to Social Security.
Nohlrabi@reddit
Which works right into their favor for cutting it!
M086@reddit
They are gonna burn this country to the ground in the next 4 years. And in its place will be some perverted deformed recreation in the MAGAGOP image.
Nohlrabi@reddit
Yes. And my newsfeed just buzzed in the Elon is the new “Austerity Prince.” 2 Trillion over the next 2 years and “it’s going to hurt!”
escapefromburlington@reddit
Putin's image
wookEmessiah@reddit
They probably see it as a positive side effect.
makk73@reddit
Yes, they probably will.
A large part of their voter base will be surprised that the leopard ate their face, but Trump won’t care.
escapefromburlington@reddit
Theyll love it tho, anything for Daddy Trump
ExoticPumpkin237@reddit
"lets make a problem where there is none". That's basically the operating principle of the Republican party these days
squidwardTalks@reddit
The dairy mega farms in Wisconsin have huge migrant populations too.
Cydyan2@reddit
Past_Search7241@reddit
You know why you're being downvoted, and it's not because you're wrong.
lyonslicer@reddit
Read: GOP Candidate Mark Robinson Wanted Return Of Slavery
dcnblues@reddit
They are losers. They don't have a plan for anything. Literally the single thing that gives them any sense of empowerment is making Liberals heads explode. So they crave and are addicted to the reaction. They like drama. Social conflict is literally the only thing their tiny brains are capable of engaging in.
BlueLikeCat@reddit
Petty small minded simpletons. Big thought like trying to create a better future takes second place to things like sports betting.
BlueLikeCat@reddit
Bannon’s Plan 2025.
BlueLikeCat@reddit
Bannon’s Plan 2025.
Easy-Group7438@reddit
We’re going to find out real quick who’s side the military is really on soon.
Vensurething@reddit (OP)
Gonna guess it’s not the big fat orange turd calling them losers for the last eight years.
Easy-Group7438@reddit
The US military is like 45% minority.
If all of them, or the majority of them, just said fuck it and went home nobody has any power.
MangoAnt5175@reddit
It’s 30% minority. For now.
“First of all, you got to fire the Chairman Joint of the Chiefs and obviously going to bring in a new Secretary of Defense, but any general that was involved — general, admiral, whatever — that was involved in, any of the DEI woke s—, has got to go,” Hegseth said during a recent interview on the “Shawn Ryan Show” podcast. “Either you’re in for warfighting, and that’s it. That’s the only litmus test we care about.”Hegseth had preemptively defended the move, saying it would be a return to normalcy for soldiers rather than a “MAGA takeover.”
“The dumbest phrase on planet Earth in the military is our diversity is our strength,” Hegseth said on the podcast, arguing that uniformity between soldiers is a key to the military’s strength.
Easy-Group7438@reddit
Barry Goldwater when asked about gays in the military said “I don’t care as long as they can shoot straight”.
MangoAnt5175@reddit
Or… hear me out…
https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/pete-hegseths-plan-overhaul-americas-military-fire-ton/story?id=115842674
Because the first time we got this memo. So now, they’ll just fire them.
Heyanimal@reddit
Civil war? That would be stupid. All the conservatives have guns! Including me!
Vensurething@reddit (OP)
So does everyone bud, Dems like guns and can aim too.
Heyanimal@reddit
Most dems are anti gun bud
FlipAnd1@reddit
“Small gov’t”
Own-Courage-9296@reddit
And don't forget the all-important states rights! My state has the right to invade yours if I want to!
recursing_noether@reddit
Yeah and why wouldn’t blue state governors cooperate with deporting illegals? Of course they will, this is just a false pretense.
altxrtr@reddit
No they will not, as they shouldn’t. The time to fix immigration was with the bipartisan bill that Trump killed.
LeonTroutskii@reddit
The one that included money to Ukraine and money for gender reassignment surgery for illegals? Yeah very bipartisan
altxrtr@reddit
Do you really believe that?
LeonTroutskii@reddit
Goooogle it
ninernetneepneep@reddit
The bill that codified catch and release?
Have you ever wondered why a majority of border patrol supports President Trump? It seems they may be more in tune with what's going on at the border than the average Joe.
Better-Context2246@reddit
They supported the border bill that Trump killed. So you guys could run campaigns whining about the problem.
ninernetneepneep@reddit
Funny how border crossings dropped dramatically after Biden reinstituted Trump's border policies his final year in office. Suppose he could have left those in place from the beginning rather than canceling them on day one. Could have saved everyone a hell of a lot of trouble while a long-term solution was worked out. Instead, we spent 3 years listening to Democrats tell us that the border was secure, the border was secure, we've been to the border, it's the most secure border we've ever had. If the border were so secure and so great, why was it suddenly such a priority to get it fixed in 2024? Oh yeah, it's an election year in the Democrats f* it up.
ReturnOfJohnBrown@reddit
People have to come here to immigrate. Nothing about immigrants coming here, being detained & processed, means the border is more or less secure than it was. You just want to treat brown people like shit.
ninernetneepneep@reddit
I am brown dumbass. And I don't need you to tell me what is best for me.
Gratefulmold@reddit
You're a shill.
recursing_noether@reddit
Democrat Governors have no reason to harbor immigrants who entered illegally though.
ninernetneepneep@reddit
Actually it was what the bill brought to the house in 2017 that Chuck Schumer refused to bring to the floor. It would have given a path to citizenship for $3 million DACA recipients. I guess that wasn't good enough then.
fattest-fatwa@reddit
Chuck Schumer wasn’t the majority leader in 2017. That was McConnel’s Senate. GOP did it to themselves.
JebusKrizt@reddit
Do you know what a sanctuary city actually means?
LeonTroutskii@reddit
A hell hole in need of cleansing.
HeisGarthVolbeck@reddit
Klan meeting tonight, your mom has your hood ready.
darkner@reddit
I can't tell if this is sarcasm...
HeisGarthVolbeck@reddit
No that's true stupidity.
nickspizza85@reddit
Pee Wee German
AdHealthy5050@reddit
What's going to happen when farmers lose 90% of their workforce??
LeonTroutskii@reddit
Farm labor doesn’t come from border hoppers. They hire companies that work with Mexican companies to bring them in. It’s legal work. Random border hoppers down just find their way to a farm in Idaho. That would also be poor recruitment practice.
BlackSquirrel05@reddit
Prison labor... OR... They have to increase wages...
Now what's funny is everyone is all about increasing wages right up until say... Dem gas prices hit them in a place they don't like paying for anymore.
In this case bread climbs to $10 a loaf... My guess is people start changing their tune. So that means... We're actually gonna start importing the cheapest food possible (Already sorta do this) or... Yup Prison labor.
recursing_noether@reddit
Wouldn’t someone please think of corporations and their exploitative labor practices
AdHealthy5050@reddit
We do..but people been bitching about grocery prices and what's gonna happen when tariffs hit and there are no worker to harvest the food we do grow..hope you got a savings account just for food
OkShow3496@reddit
Are you honestly not paying attention? Sincere question, because if ylu were, you'd know this same man just stated that they are starting the process of denaturalization.
https://x.com/StephenM/status/1712094935820780029
They also plan to end birthright citizenship.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-vows-end-birthright-citizenship-children-immigrants-us-illegally-2023-05-30/
So, you can not say any longer that this is about illegals.
That-Condition9243@reddit
Weird how small government seems to want to strip away consumer protections and dismantle government restrictions on business that benefit society as a whole yet simultaneously rob women of bodily autonomy, enact civil war on citizens and enrich those that already have unfathomable wealth and power.
Dense_Ad1118@reddit
The meaning of “small government” is having government stay out of matters in which it doesn’t have constitutional authority. The government was always intended to enforce immigration laws. The Founders wrote The Naturalization Act of 1790 into law. Read it.
Morphray@reddit
From wikipedia:
Seems just a bit obsolete.
IrishGoodbye4@reddit
Oh damn, let’s open the borders wide open then
ki4clz@reddit
I like the part where Ronald Reagan granted everyone here illegally Amnesty…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Reform_and_Control_Act_of_1986
Know your history and how the GOP of today is not the GOP of a few decades ago
Dense_Ad1118@reddit
My point is that immigration was originally intended to be FAR more selective than it is now.
BlackSquirrel05@reddit
The OG constitution didn't include a standing army... Then that went tits up and they said "That was a stupid idea... Whoops."
lyonslicer@reddit
And black people were intended to be counted as 3/5 of a person. What's your point, exactly?
Opposite-Program8490@reddit
The originalists real goal.
helluvastorm@reddit
You mean only white Europeans?
ThePlatypusOfDespair@reddit
The founders intended citizenship to be limited to rich white landowners, but more importantly they intended the Constitution to be a living document that changed as America changed. Fuck original intent
es_crow@reddit
Who intended the constitution to be a living document?
ReturnOfJohnBrown@reddit
Because if it wasn't we would have to redo the damn thing every few yrs. 🙄
ThePlatypusOfDespair@reddit
Also, holy shit, if you know one thing about how the Constitution was written, you know that the founding fathers disagreed on almost everything and the entire document is a massive compromise.
Absinthe_Parties@reddit
you can't put facts on reddit. no one wants to hear the truth.
Pfizer-Soze@reddit
This sub used to be informative and very useful until it was taken over by the over-reactionary loud types.
Absinthe_Parties@reddit
I agree. I enjoyed the actual prepper discussion. Now it's just politics (left leaning) like the rest of reddit. Now I usually just roll my eyes after visiting this subreddit.
Pfizer-Soze@reddit
Agreed, seems to be the case with most subreddits these days.
Dense_Ad1118@reddit
Honestly? I love it. The echo chamber is what will allow us to thoroughly dominate them in perpetuity. Not only will they keep losing, but they will never understand why.
Vaulk7@reddit
Would it cause a civil War? No.
No one that claims to support people who broke the law by illegally entering the Country was or is willing to physically do anything about the needs of those people themselves. Polling has been done countless times, asking people if they'd house illegal immigrants, the vast majority of answers were resoundingly "No, not under any circumstances".
Now that the law is going to be applied...I HIGHLY doubt that anyone is going to suddenly organize the number of personnel it would take to thwart law enforcement in their efforts to fairly apply the law. It's all fine and well to send prayers and hope for the best, but when it comes to action the only groups that have the nuts to pull a stunt like that are Antifa and they're a bunch of kids with zero training who mostly rely on people being afraid of them.
Writing_is_Bleeding@reddit
Yes. Certain Americans think the cause of the civil war was 'the north' trying to economically weaken the south—they call it "The War of Northern Aggression."
It sounds like Miller is looking to retaliate by economically weakening blue states.
The last 9 years have been concerning, but this makes my blood run cold.
DaddyOfOhReaally@reddit
How is removing illegal aliens economically weakening blue states? It removes millions of people who are taking money from the states via social programs intended for citizens and many of these illegal aliens are single men of military age from over a hundred different countries. How are they economically viable?
buddha9943@reddit
I am no historian but arent actions like this what lead to the civil war
DaddyOfOhReaally@reddit
Not exactly. In this case states are openly defying federal law and the President can call up the National Guard and they go from state control to Federal control. Then they can be deployed whereever deemed necessary to perform a federal tasking. In this case the assistance of removing illegal immigrants.
However it will likely be the FBI and other federal agents that seek out and arrest the suspects and then turned over to the National Guard for processing and removal.
In the civil war the Federal Government was trying to "make sense" by freeing slaves, but in doing so didn't want to compensate the states for taking their property. Remember the Supreme Court ruled 7-2 in the Dredd Scott case that slaves were in fact property and not people. So when the Feds tried to free them, the states argued for compensation and that the Feds were overstepping States Rights.
In this case there is no state right that allows you to flaunt federal law. The constitution is clear that a state cannot legalize that which the federal government declares illegal. All sanctuary States are in violation of federal law and should lose all Federal tunding until they are in compliance.
hream_and_terpenes@reddit
Personally, I think you’re autistic if you read this and instantly believed this was going your way happen.
queenofkb@reddit
Personally, I think you are better off ducking your own d!ck than posting this. The incoming administration has been clear this is the plan. If you want to pretend otherwise, you might as well buy Enron stock.
SilentNightman@reddit
Let's have a moratorium on the "civil war" thing, please.
Mental-Cupcake9750@reddit
Sounds like a tenth amendment case. Don’t think this is a civil rights case
Ambitious_Stand5188@reddit
Depends on if Americans are willing to throw everything away and die for illegal immigrants. Im doubtful.
Visible-Produce-6465@reddit
National guard couldn't take over a Denny's. Much less a state. If we learned anything from Trump's former presidency. He will just stand to the side and not do anything unless his life is personally in danger.
HouseflyJones@reddit
Maybe but let’s be honest, blue states wouldn’t last very long
omdesign-386@reddit
The very purpose has been discovered
Lamab85704@reddit
Miller is a chaos agent. He would love it.
Equivalent-Egg-2328@reddit
If I live in a red state, but my governor is Dem, which side of the civil war will I have to report to?
1maco@reddit
It also makes no sense? The President can just federalize the national guard straight up
FlatAffect3@reddit
But will the COs in their respective states go along with federarilization? If they have more allegiance to their state than the feds then what?
Human-Permission9541@reddit
Reee!!! Why can't they just leave my wife's boyfriend alone!???
R1NGW0RMZ@reddit
The Brennan Center for justice is a hyper partisan collective that t spread propaganda & sponsor divisive policies. Fuck em.
None1234557789@reddit
It was completely illegal until you idiots gave the border to the Biden administration. Making it a federal problem and not just the states problems anymore. And here we are
OCCAMINVESTIGATOR@reddit
Source?
Candid-Swimming9327@reddit
This is stupidity. At one point, years ago they had the same theory only it was a “blue state army” that would deploy to other states and seize firearms. I think these theories start with a bunch of fat basement dwellers with night vision and 4,000 dollar rifles fantasizing over civil war.
Icy_Attorney7912@reddit
I’m in the national guard now. We get federalized all the time for border patrol duties I’ve done it 4 times. Units from all over the country in many states have done this rotation.
I also had to sit in the parking garage at the Capitol. I’ve had to sit in Chicago during The dnc and period of civil unrest.
The governor of the state has to sign the guard units of that state over to the president for federalized service. This is nothing new and I’m not sure why everyone is panicking about using the guard to enforce immigration laws. The guard is not going to go house to house rounding people up. But they have been doing border duty assisting dhs for as long as I’ve been in.
Due_Explanation2130@reddit
No problem as long as the laws are followed.
damo1112@reddit
Where's MadDog?
cox_the_fox@reddit
Stephen Miller’s fantasies aside, this will not happen. If Republicans truly wanted to stop illegal immigration, they’d go after the companies hiring them in the first place. But they can’t do that because then the agriculture sector would come to a complete halt. Same for the construction industry, manufacturing, etc. Also they’d have nobody to scapegoat and nothing to complain about anymore. This plan barely goes over the logistics of mass deportation. Are they going to go door to door trampling on people’s civil liberties? There are like 350 million people in this country
Embarrassed-Royal946@reddit
At least deport the felons I would think anyone with common sense would have to agree
Either-Silver-6927@reddit
The biggest benefit will be CA, OR and Wash losing all those I'll gotten house seats and electoral votes! Getting rid of the invaders is just a joyful by product of that. California claims to have all this agriculture and economy, yet they run the largest deficit by far of any state. Importing vegetables from Mexico and selling here is not the same as being a producer. You have grapes...makes an enormous profit margin, but it's a luxury item not life sustaining. Businesses are already fleeing like the new plague has been turned loose. They are all weak and mostly disarmed like their local govt likes them to be. That's the reason for the invasion in the first place, to keep the numbers up in dem controlled areas to maintain seats and votes, you didn't know that already?
Everquest-Wizard@reddit
Pretty much every claim you made is wrong, especially regarding produce in California. I mean, wow, how pathetic are you? And how does it feel to base your entire world view off false beliefs?
Either-Silver-6927@reddit
You been there? I have ...alot, and while there may be a garden here and there, maybe a cow. Their main crop is grapes and sequoia trees. Profit margin on wine is good, much better than produce. So that's a win, but still true.
Everquest-Wizard@reddit
No, you are so wrong. Where to start?
You claimed that their house seats are “ill gotten” - umm, no. They are determined by the US Census just like every other state. So if you say they are ill gotten, you have to apply that to every state.
You call immigrants “invaders” which is a value based claim, not based in reality. California’s vast agricultural economy requires a vast number of workers. Many are American, but many are nots if you don’t like that, 1) Punish the farmers and 2) pay higher prices.
California is a complex economy and a global leader in agriculture, entertainment, wine production, and so much more. They do generally run a balanced budget. Like any state, sometimes they don’t, sometimes they do. It’s not your concern. California is still the FIFTH LARGEST economy in the world.
You make fun of grapes, yet they contribute to an industry worth billions. California produces damn near every vegetable, fruit, and nut you can name.
Man you are so wrong. Go read a book.
Either-Silver-6927@reddit
1 I don't make fun of grapes, it's a huge profit crop, if they grew well here I wouldnt have 900 acres of corn and soybeans every year. I also wouldnt have to work another full time job to cover the taxes on the lamd itself #2 I'm a farmer myself, and I don't hire illegals, so paying farmers more helps me let's do it. If only we would've considered this when this was still a dairy farm in the 80's.... #3 I don't need books to explain what I can see with my own two eyes. #4 It is my concern on a discussion involving California which has multiple comments on how California can sustain itself. You jumping in, in the middle of the conversation does not change the trajectory of the previous conversation. If you would like to start a new one....ok. But please don't fault me fconversation. In which you were not in the coversation.
Defiantcaveman@reddit
Triggered much, bahahahahaha!!!
Either-Silver-6927@reddit
You must've been. Why are you bothering to comment? Do you have a question?
Defiantcaveman@reddit
Not a chance buster. Your sheer triggered stupidity inspired me to publicly laugh at you.
Oh, and it's a public forum, get fucked.
Foreign_Frosting9219@reddit
That’s a terrifying thought but is it plausible?
AutismThoughtsHere@reddit
Yes, it does. The fact that he specifically calls out a red state army is crazy.
From my perspective, it looks like they completely intended to take the national guard from one state and invade another state over the objection of local law-enforcement and the governor.
Technically, the federal government has this power during a state of emergency, but you can’t just randomly declare a state of emergency illegal immigration all of a sudden now.
Nothing changed we have roughly 11,000,000 illegal immigrants in the country. You can’t just suddenly say that those peoples presence is an Emergency all of the sudden.
I guess they can do whatever they want. People need to get their second amendment weapons ready you may have to resist the National Guard.
DesertRat31@reddit
This is patently unconstitutional. Trump can't just unilaterally disregard the constitution.
Defiantcaveman@reddit
He will though. That's their plan.
TimeGhost_22@reddit
No, because one side won't have willing fighters.
Defiantcaveman@reddit
...and it's not who they assume...
Defiantcaveman@reddit
So they're just going to run roughshod over everything and everyone no matter how legal or illegal because THAT'S what THEY want to do. They may be in for a huge surprise. They only think they want "war". Look at Ukraine, russias success is their success...
Leader_2_light@reddit
Anybody that won't cooperate with deporting illegals should also be removed from this country...
Granted none of this shit discussed here is actually going to happen and instead the country will simply continue to slowly decline toward a dog shit nation. Canada and Britain are both prime examples.
philipJfry857@reddit
Anyone who breaks the law in an attempt to enforce another law violates their oath to uphold the Constitution, or willingly violates a person's civil rights should face the death penalty. This includes but is not limited to the president of the United States.
If you want to live in a nation such as you're implying then move to Russia and let decent intelligent people who aren't degenerate scum live in peace. I would happily do a 10k:1 exchange of undocumented migrants for people who turn a blind eye to human rights violations.
Leader_2_light@reddit
Russia and China don't allow people in willy-nilly. They're grinning with each passing year as this country continues to decline and faces a total collapse.
Debt payments will soon swamp the entire budget. It's a poorly run shit show.
philipJfry857@reddit
What other Reich-wing propaganda would you like to parrot today? Polly says schools are giving transgender surgery. Ooo, I've got one, come on Polly, say, woke, you can do it.
its_broo_skeh_tuh@reddit
How exactly do you remove an American citizen from this country?
SnooDingos3781@reddit
Wow this doesn’t sound like anything that has ever happened in the past around 1935
asymptosy@reddit
Trump's in for a rude awakening if the natty guard he sends are anything like the absolutely worthless chumps I worked with doing Helene relief.
Kids I worked with were utterly pitiful. I literally would have gotten more done as a volunteer if they hadn't been there.
When I spoke to the LT (basicaly, a babysitter) he complained "we can't really punish them anymore. back in the day you could smoke 'em for doing work this bad. The worst we can do now is dock their pay, or punish them with paperwork".
I'm sure there are infantry units, MPs, etc. that are solid. Hell, maybe he'll federalize some ODAs from 19th and 20th groups even.
Any non-combat / non-law-enforcement units are gonna be worse than useless though.
RipFontaine@reddit
Thought it was the law already to not be here illegally. So enforcing the law will now start a civil war? Okay.
SilenceDobad76@reddit
Why would mayors, cities or states be above the law?
TheMechanic1911@reddit
fnkymonky1776@reddit
That dude looks Like Mr burns. He’s so bald it hurts
jacksraging_bileduct@reddit
I’m gonna say this now, I’ll be surprised if any of this actually happens.
LaserToy@reddit
Red state army. Red Army. Where did I see it before?
Temporary-Cap1881@reddit
Can we say The Gestapo and the SS? That was one of the first things that Hitler had created shortly after he was appointed as chancellor. That's what this kind of "red state army" would essentially be. People continue to think that this won't happen in America, but it may depend on the democrats to stop this from happening. He is saying that they are going to create a new army by pulling National Gaurdsmen from the national guard into the new army. This would bypass any current hierarchy of the military we have. This is straight out of Hitler and Goering's playbook. People, please stop saying that it will never happen and start trying to make sure it doesn't happen.
TheEvilestEvan@reddit
End them now before they have even more security around them.
Annual-Werewolf-4391@reddit
If blue states don’t participate then millions of illegal immigrants would leave red states and flood the blue states for protection and overwhelm the blue states- leading to a major safety health and economical crisis in blue states. Innocent people will be harmed if blue states don’t participate in the federal laws.
Parkyguy@reddit
It’s all bs. They can’t house that many people while they wait for trial.
Either-Silver-6927@reddit
What trial? No papers? Get out, no trial is required.
MythOfHappyness@reddit
The constitutional right to trial protects everyone regardless of citizenship status. Though currently Trump is talking about using the same act that created concentration camps in World war I and II to suspend the Constitution.
Either-Silver-6927@reddit
Well statute requires that they be detained until adjudication. It was illegal to catch and release in the first place. The parole systems used to bring them in was illegal. Perhaps Mayorkas should've followed the law and turned people away that he couldn't detain. Do you advise continued violations of the law to support the previous? At what cost? I'm sure there is a reasonable solution, but it escapes me at the moment. What would you advise? And let's not forget that these people voluntarily turned themselves in to CBP, welcoming whatever hardships that might require. What about the gotaways? They never claimed asylum or anything, do we chase them down all over the country and detain them as well? Using them as pawns should've cost democrats more political capital than it did. But anything is better than losing an American life isn't it? What would you expect if you were caught sneaking into Canada? You would be in prison until you were deported, and thats a country that we get along with!! People use American generosity and our relaxed demeanor against us. If anything is to be learned from 9/11 or 10/7 it should've been that. Protect our people and give the enemy zero chances.
Striking_Computer834@reddit
As much as Eisenhower sending the 101st to Little Rock to enforce desegregation.
jar1967@reddit
Starting a civil war would be very bad for the stock market. The money behind the republican party wouldn't stand for that. Trump could find himself in deep trouble very fast
bel1984529@reddit
It would be awesome to dismiss this as deeply unlikely, but concerns about the stock market didn’t derail January 6. Nor will there any accountability for it.
sg92i@reddit
The problem is that the party has been slowly taken over by true-believers who care more about dogma than the stock market. Barry Goldwater predicted this way back in the 1960s when he was talking about how "the party will be in trouble if these jesus freaks actually take over."
Example: When Texas started going after LGBT people and abortion, the big MegaCorps went to the state gov and warned them what that would do for business in that state- companies leaving, being hard to find good talent, brain drain as people fled the state, etc. And the GOP in charge Did. Not. Care. What. The. Consequences. Could. Be. The three-letter executives were dumbfounded that they had no influence in the matter. And this is in a state that -already- knew they had lost out to California in the construction of silicone valley because back in the 1980s they refused to give gays rights, so Apple decided to build their facilities in California instead and that's largely why all the big tech companies ended up in Cali instead of Texas (this is also why Apple's old logo is a rainbow apple). Texas lost out in billions and billions of tax revenue, high end jobs, and land development because they'd rather make it hard for gays to be there.
Fast forward to the late Obama-early Trump years and they not only didn't learn from this, they doubled down on it.
Exciting-Half3577@reddit
Respectfully do you have a source on that Apple story? I'm interested in reading that story.
sg92i@reddit
Here's one of them but I don't have all of the stories involved bookmarked and this was a pre-internet saga:
https://greensboro.com/gay-rights-dispute-apple-bows-out-of-plans-in-texas/article_1eb328b6-28b2-5ec7-87f8-1ccb97b1fd11.html
ijustsailedaway@reddit
They lost control of their useful idiots.
RoboDurp@reddit
Great point, sad but true. Tail is wagging the dog now
Gullible_Might7340@reddit
It might tank the stock market, but if they thought they could win then the truly wealthy would be all for it. If you have the capital, economic downturn are when you can make the most money. Sell off when things are starting to get bad, sit on your money until it gets really bad, buy up as many assets as you can and reap the benefits when things stabilize. A lot of real estate empires were made during the 08 crash. It's only us schmucks who can't live for years off cash reserves who get screwed.
escapefromburlington@reddit
Nah they're accelerationists
xjohnmcclanex@reddit
Yeah straight up hogwash
Logandop@reddit
Without immigrants (legal and illigal) america would fall within a couple of days
Plutos_A_Planet2024@reddit
Well it won’t be sunshine and butterflies that’s for sure…
No_Biscotti_7258@reddit
This keeps getting posted everywhere and in non of the threads will anyone answer my question. “What is the source of this conveniently cropped photo of words?”
MythOfHappyness@reddit
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/inside-trumps-plan-mass-deportations-who-wants-stop-him-2024-11-06/
No_Biscotti_7258@reddit
That isn’t the source is this image. That’s just an article talking about similar things
ay-sysadmin@reddit
What seems to be missing or not made public is how he plans on doing this. Like do they have intel on where certain people are or are they literally planning to go door to door? Many years ago there was immigration enforcement where I live but I believe that was carried out by ICE / the FBI, but I think they targeted certain places instead of searching the area.
CaramelMeowchiatto@reddit
They would probably start with known criminals, then move on to workplace raids.
syntheticgeneration@reddit
From watching his recent stuff, he alludes to certain methods they have and that they are able to locate anyone quick. Probably the same kinda tech Snowden told us about. You know we're all monitored anyway.
DAM5150@reddit
As a blue state liberal...why are we standing in their way? Yes, i get that its terrible to deport children and families...but they voted for it! I know not all of them did...but some of them did. The people who chose this need to feel the repercussions. We cushioned the blow last time. They learned nothing.
MythOfHappyness@reddit
Undocumented migrants can't vote...
DAM5150@reddit
The people who hire them do. I get it, my take is cold hearted. It comes from a place of anger that conservatives can't see past their own nose, but I don't think they ever change their minds if they don't lose their asses first.
djaybe@reddit
Oh that would spark conflict alright. It wouldn't be pretty.
DwarvenRedshirt@reddit
Last I heard, you'd have an issue if the destination Governor objected. State rights and all. But I don't see this happening. The more likely thing is them sending all the illegal aliens from the states that don't want them to the sanctuary states. It's amazing how fast they want to get rid of them when they show up on their front door.
HappyAnimalCracker@reddit
My experiences with immigrants have been overwhelmingly positive. No one I know would want to “get rid of them”. The xenophobes, on the other hand…
DwarvenRedshirt@reddit
Are you in a sanctuary city/state? Is the same true when you've got busloads being dropped off in your area? I don't know if Texas and Florida are still busing them out, but the thing you saw from last year is that those sanctuary cities tend to get cranky way before they get the number of people that the border states have.
Example: No more room at the inn
MythOfHappyness@reddit
They were mad at the inhumanity of the way that it was being done not at having to take care of human beings. I live in Denver, one of the key cities for these buses. Our city has voted multiple times to rededicate money to supporting and housing these people. We want to do it. It's likely you don't know what actually happens with these buses. People who don't speak English are told that they're being taken somewhere to be processed for asylum put on a bus and driven 15 hours without any explanation and then dropped off in a park downtown. They are not given a place to sleep, no one explains what's happening, they aren't even given any food. Now that it's been ongoing for years the city has set up resources in that park to help orient people, before a long time these human beings were being treated like animals. It's intentional cruelty.
majordashes@reddit
Trump’s wannabe Fascist fantasies will never be reality. It’s hollow bluster.
I live in a red state. Does anyone believe my Republican governor is going to use Trump’s “red-state army” to deport the tens of thousands of undocumented immigrants who are propping up our state’s meatpacking plants, corporate dairy farms, egg farms, construction companies, roofing companies and other businesses?!
These undocumented immigrants are the cornerstone of these industries in my state.
Our Republican governor knows this. Our Republican controlled legislature knows this. And the Republican CEOs who run these companies sure know it too. These businesses would grind to a halt and crater if undocumented workers were “rounded up.”
Not gonna happen. Corporations drive all US policy and run our government. They will never give up their cheap labor.
Does anyone remember what happened to the food supply when the meatpacking plants closed for a week during COVID? Tens of thousands of chickens and hogs had to be killed because farmers could not bring them to slaughter. Industrial farms and their processes are meticulously timed. Animals are raised in tranches, and they must go to slaughter during a narrow window. Then the next tranch goes. You can’t shut down slaughter and processing plants and leave farmers with a glut of market-ready animals. It’s too expensive to feed and care for them. So they opt to kill them.
I can’t even imagine the disruption to the dairy industry. Dairy cows must be milked daily.
I’m disgusted they’re touting the over-the-top, incendiary ideas that spark fear—when these actions are absolutely not feasible and will never happen.
H5N1 is spreading rampantly in dairy cows right now. Corporate dairy farm owners have refused to test their cattle or even allow the CDC to visit their farms to advise them on virus prevention and containment. These dairy corporations are driving a response to a major public health crisis. They’re fiercely protecting their profits. Does anyone really believe these same dairy corporations will allow our government to drain their employee base?
Neither political side wants to end the undocumented immigrant crisis. The issue is more valuable unsolved as a political talking point. If they were serious, they’d pass legislation to fine corporations $100,000 for every undocumented worker—and then conduct sweeps at these corporations. An easy solution that has never happened because they aren’t serious!
Travel to Arkansas and tell the Tyson family to expect military sweeps of their plants and significant employee losses. Do the same at Rose Acre Farms in Iowa, the largest egg producer in the U.S. and also the largest commercial construction companies and beef cattle operations.
It’s just not going to happen.
legliknbtylvn@reddit
The individual illegal immigrants they are referring to are not working people, 90 percent are not. The murdering/rapping evil individuals that are here for nothing but chaos and destruction of humanity is what is being dealt with. Reference to the illegal individuals who are being allowed and shipped here by the outrageously destructive government in power for last four years. SMH, DISILLUSION AND PROPAGANDA IS RAMPED THESE DAYS AND ITS TERRIBLE PEOPLE CANT THINK FOR THEM SELVES AND BELIEVE EVERY LILL THING THEY SEE AND HEAR, UGH
You-chose-poorly@reddit
Private red state army?
Where have I heard of something like this before......
Oh yeah,
The Voluntary Militia for National Security and the Sturmabteilung.
Nope, Trump definitely Isn't a fascist. No sirree, Bob.
Busy-Lynx-7133@reddit
Strictly speaking the president can federalize the guard, however once done posse comitatus comes into play. I know that legal precept has already been attacked, pay close attention to efforts to remove or circumvent it. Fed troops defending federal facilities is one thing, anywhere else is very much something else. But what does a retired grunt know.
Either-Silver-6927@reddit
That only applies to American citizens, illegal immigrants aren't covered under that.
Busy-Lynx-7133@reddit
Posse comitatus explicitly prevents the federal army being utilized for law enforcement purposes with good reason
Either-Silver-6927@reddit
Against the AMERICAN PEOPLE, yes. Not against foreign invaders.
Busy-Lynx-7133@reddit
That’s anti constitutional and thus repellent to any reasonable policy.
Either-Silver-6927@reddit
In what world would using our military to stop an invasion of foreign nationals be unconstitutional? That's what they are for!
Busy-Lynx-7133@reddit
Where’s the army? Why not jail the businesses hiring them that’s much easier
Either-Silver-6927@reddit
Do both, it doesn't matter to me. But laws that apply to citizens are not extended to those here illegally.
Busy-Lynx-7133@reddit
Untrue and immoral, I’d go so far as to say un-American.
Either-Silver-6927@reddit
America like every country is defined by its laws. They were un-American when they willfully broke those laws, the reason doesn't matter. I believe in helping people too, but not to the detriment of others, that's is pointless. And harming Americans, imo, is the most un-American thing we could do.
Busy-Lynx-7133@reddit
Doubling down on the legal flaws and immorality of your position. You’d fit in with sov cits.
Either-Silver-6927@reddit
Doubling down on the laws of this country is prudent I would think. 911 didn't happen in my neighborhood, thankfully, no need to give em another shot. Every other country enforces their laws, are they soviets as well? Or is that just Americans that want sovereignty?
Busy-Lynx-7133@reddit
Now highlighting your utter ignorance, it’s a weakness you should improve upon if able
Either-Silver-6927@reddit
Busy-Lynx-7133@reddit
Funny word vomit does not a valid position make
Either-Silver-6927@reddit
Neither does speaking like Yoda, but here we are. I'm the only one offering up anything at all. Saying no isn't supportive of anything. If you can refute a point please do.
Busy-Lynx-7133@reddit
I refute your entire premise, which does not require me to deal with nonsense Gish galloping.
And if you thought that was yoga like grammar you clearly don’t read.
Either-Silver-6927@reddit
Ok well good luck to you. You've offered nothing in the way of an altering view so I am forced to believe that you don't have one. I am going to continue other conversations in hopes of enlightenment. Thank you for your time.
Busy-Lynx-7133@reddit
You’ve offered nonsense.
Either-Silver-6927@reddit
I offered reasoning as to why mass deportation was necessary. You haven't offered anything at all.
tss1984@reddit
The right wing is gearing up and wants a civil war. They desperately want to be able to use the full force of the government against anyone who doesn’t agree with them. Sad part is they’ll make laws criminalizing free speech and won’t blink at sending the troops in on its own citizens. They don’t care about the constitution if it applies to politically opposed groups
AlexTheBold51@reddit
Most local sheriff and police departments, even in very blue states, will probably be more than happy to not only stand aside, but help in the effort. You'll just have the usual 3 college students with rich parents and the Antifa scum protesting. Not even BLM will mobilize this time around.
ZeroDarkOutfitters@reddit
Dry_Masterpiece8319@reddit
My blue rifles will be locked and loaded in my blue state
khoawala@reddit
Everyone just need to simply search "which industry hires the most undocumented immigrants?" then laughs about it. They'll be begging immigrants to stay by the end of this.
Jjm211992@reddit
Immigrants are worth more than just cheap labor, check your privilege.
Itsnotthatsimplesam@reddit
Y'all need to realize that the majority of agriculture doesn't take hardly any employees and it's only high dollar crops that take them.
Tomatoes, strawberrys, apples. Sure. Corn, wheat, sorlybeans, rice? Thousands of acres per person. No one is going to starve
khoawala@reddit
Hahahaha some of you act like this never happened before. Georgia and Florida tried threatening these immigrants and they end up begging the immigrants to stay after the migrants voluntarily left or just not come back.
Most undocumented migrant farm workers are seasonal. There's been many times in the past where they take republican threats seriously and not return, causing massive food waste due to nobody to harvest them. Shit, it wasn't even that long ago when Brexit had the same problem, they ended up begging migrants to come back.
Cheap labor is addicting.
Itsnotthatsimplesam@reddit
And a local problem.
Dense_Ad1118@reddit
“Without our slaves who will pick the cotton?”
Itsnotthatsimplesam@reddit
Cotton is picked with a machine and requires very little labor to grow or process.
Most agriculture is produced with very little labor. Some agriculture requires a lot of labor. Tomatoes, strawberries, etc. Not staples
itslikewoow@reddit
The people who risk everything to come to the US are slaves in your opinion? Holy virtue signaling Batman!
khoawala@reddit
Are you talking about the for-profit prisons industry that sell labor for free or are you talking about undocumented immigrants who chooses to work for a better life?
Dumbkitty2@reddit
Didn’t we just go through this Trump’s last term? Photos of tomatoes rotting in the field because between Trump and DeSantis’ harsh policies field workers left and the price of ketchup and pasta sauce went up?
Of course I saw comments on one of the economic subs that the stock value of for profit prisons went up the day after the election. I’m sure they will find a alternative work force if needed.
khoawala@reddit
Yea I remember there was nobody to process the turkies during one of the thanksgiving lol.
I'm glad I got my roof replaced for less than what my parents paid 10 years ago. Bless them.
911ChickenMan@reddit
You're benefitting from what is essentially slave labor. You should feel bad.
khoawala@reddit
Really? You live in a country with private for-profit prisons and the highest number of inmates in the world where they are forced to work with no wage but you think people who risk their life for a better future of their children are the slaves?
911ChickenMan@reddit
It's not a competition. You can be against both private prisons and the exploitation of immigrant labor.
khoawala@reddit
And where do you think the labor will come from if they get rid of immigrants? There's a reason why republicans refuses to decriminalize stuff and expand private prisons.
LysanderSpoonerDrip@reddit
Automation based productivity gains
PrimmSlimShady@reddit
Are the machines in the room with us now?
LysanderSpoonerDrip@reddit
No they will be in the fields working
khoawala@reddit
Bless your heart
CrybullyModsSuck@reddit
I don't think you know what slaves are.
bootsmade4Walken@reddit
Maybe, the more likely solution is they'll start leasing prison inmates for pennies an hour. It's basic jobs like picking fruit and roofing/framing/etc, they'll teach prisoners how. That's all the immigration debate has been is cheaper labor prices and a return to slavery/feudalism. It's why the Biden administration pressured cities to use COVID funds for police training and cop cities.
khoawala@reddit
People respond to me saying I celebrate slave labor but what you say here is the real deal.
bootsmade4Walken@reddit
Right, we aren't celebrating, we are stating facts. This I'd and has been the current reality for incarcerated folks since 1865, the 13th ammendment only changed who was allowed to have slaves.
6_1_5@reddit
I am not a trump fan, although I did vote for him, lesser of two evils kind of deal, but since he won, I love coming to reddit, to listen to all the meltdowns and will the shit, all of you hard core lefties are coming up with. Truly entertaining, so thanks for all this stuff. I especially like all the posts about how he's going to put y'all in concentration camps (I doubt it, but if he does, I'll come get you out.) I can't wait to see all the goodies here, after 1/20.
Front_Somewhere2285@reddit
“We” “Them”
TemporarilyHere10@reddit
Good fucking luck controlling 150 million people bitches.
heavymetalhikikomori@reddit
You guys wont do shit but hide and hoard.
2NutsDragon@reddit
Yes, if rogue states defied government mandate, it would be uncivil and could possibly lead to violence.
RadicalExtremo@reddit
This situation really separates the men from the boys, though.
Delmp@reddit
Where did this paragraph cone from? Lol just random text and preppers get flustered
Salt_Candy_3724@reddit
I'm sure the wives, husbands, employers, and parents of the National Guard will love 6 month deployments to Portland....not to mention Guardsmen morale.
"Come on over and join the party! My husband is in San Francisco fighting"The Woke"...lol
Secure_Tap_8147@reddit
The read it on the internet that sources say, so it must be true!
breezeblock87@reddit
https://www.truthnetwork.com/show/the-charlie-kirk-show-charlie-kirk/72387/
Secure_Tap_8147@reddit
National Guard units are not red forces vs blue forces. Once again, the left is relying on hyperbole to reframe common sense. This is why you lost and why you will continue to loose until they come back to center. It’s why MSNBC and CNNs ratings are through the floor and MSNBC is preparing to sell (possibly to Musk) and CNN is dumping most of its on air staff and refocusing on digital. The country has moved on.
breezeblock87@reddit
I literally linked you a podcast with trumps OWN PICK for Homeland Security Advisor.
What hyperbole? Do you even know what that means? Can you even read or listen to Steven Miller's own words? Like lmao. You guys are fucking nuts.
Secure_Tap_8147@reddit
I also want to be clear: this is not meant as an attack on you or anyone else. It’s just deceptive journalism that’s meant to inflame and there are right leaning outlets that are just culpable. Peace.
Secure_Tap_8147@reddit
I just listened and heard that national guard units would be deputized to lead deportation in their own states and would overlap between individual states as needed. The above article claims a red state army will invade a blue state. It’s complete horse shit. Instead of worrying about this, maybe worry about the $150,000,000,000 annual cost to you, me and every other American, while Americans, especially its veterans, are on the streets.
bangedyourmoms@reddit
This is a screen shot of some text. Do better.
bearfootmedic@reddit
Paywalled source
Firestorm2934@reddit
Paywalled trash fear mongering propaganda is a better explanation this subreddit is supposed to help you identify needs of prepping not be another left wing mouthpiece like the other 70% of reddit.
RicochetRandall@reddit
I think first they're gonna push Mexican govt to use it's military to go against the cartels at the border which should be interesting. Right now Mexico doesn't want to do this...but apparently Trump is gonna threaten them with Tarriff's
Either-Silver-6927@reddit
That or stand down and let ours go in after them. Over in 3 days guaranteed.
PainterOriginal8165@reddit
I suspect that Civil War is exactly what they want! They have been screaming it for years.
Bigjoemonger@reddit
The logic of deploying red state forces against blue states is entirely flawed on the basis that there are no red states and blue states. Maybe there are in the electoral college. But in terms of actual people, every single state is divided pretty much down the middle in terms of Democrats vs Republicans. The lean that determines which way the electoral college votes is only slight in pretty much every state.
So every state that tries to take action on another is going to have a significant amount of their own population that's not thrilled about the idea.
Our country may be divided, but we are not remotely divided geographically.
Either-Silver-6927@reddit
Not at all, the state has no jurisdiction in the matter of immigration. Sanctuary policies are unconstitutional, they are about to be challenged for the first time. Need to also deport any elected official that stands in the way regardless, they hate American law....ship em out. States can protect their borders, because that follows federal law, there is no federal law supporting illegal sanctuary policy.
rockeye13@reddit
Any credible source for this?
breezeblock87@reddit
https://www.truthnetwork.com/show/the-charlie-kirk-show-charlie-kirk/72387/
his own words?
breezeblock87@reddit
this is sad.
BaiterSE@reddit
bring it on - let’s fucking go
RockTheGrock@reddit
This has strong brown shirt vibes. Ugh....
ViewFar6005@reddit
Considering the vast majority of Americans are into it, and the ones that aren't are fat autistic trannys, that would be the shortest civil war in history, and everyone would be better for it. Looking forward to you losers trying.
Vensurething@reddit (OP)
It’s funny how you think the military is on your side and that dems don’t have guns. Everyone has guns.
Also where exactly will this war happen? You gonna storm the capitol again? Good luck with that!
Sure all the Trump supporting military will just let you take over the government and hang the VP like the last time.
Oh that’s right you losers failed.
You couldn’t get enough lardasses to hold the capitol when your guy was in power and you’re suggesting you’re gonna pull off a civil war this time?
In no world do the majority of Americans support you even if the vote is correct. Most people don’t vote.
This is why it makes no sense that he would win without cheating. Because he couldn’t 4 years ago when he was popular, and now he’s screaming about eating dogs and shit.
Good luck with your war.
sloppyjoseph3@reddit
You libtards will literally come up with any excuse to not admit that your candidate was complete dogshit. Trump won because the left pushed everyone to him
poseidondeep@reddit
I just hope their brown shirts wear a uniform to make them more identifiable
magi70@reddit
The red hats help.
jonan69@reddit
If you look there are no blue states only blue city's. This should tell you where your fruit loop ideals stand with the rest of the country.
magi70@reddit
There are no red states. Just TINY little dots out in no-fly zones. Land doesn’t vote. You don’t get to claim all the empty spaces as”MAGA land”. If you look at a properly drawn map with blue and red proportional to population, you might finally understand that MOST of the US is actually BLUE!
CutAccording7289@reddit
Independent here. Dems that are reading, remember this when the pendulum swings back the other way and your idols ask you to give up your guns.
Vensurething@reddit (OP)
They can have them to be done with Trump and have a stable government again.
stewartm0205@reddit
Blue states have a larger population and they will be the ones defending their territories. I don't think the National Guards signed up to kill and die.
VillageIdiotNo1@reddit
There aren't any blue states. You mean blue cities
stewartm0205@reddit
All rural areas aren’t Red just like all city aren’t Blue. If a state consistently vote one way or another for president we assign them a color.
VillageIdiotNo1@reddit
You're not talking about voting, though
stewartm0205@reddit
I was talking about numbers. I can tell you if people attack New York even Republican New Yorker will fight to protect it.
VillageIdiotNo1@reddit
Why attack a city if there was a civil war? Just cut the power lines and block the roads/bridges and wait. Cities have little power generation, food growth potential, or ability to supply drinkable water after the supplies in the stores are exhausted, and most of the people are unlikely to have much in the way of stores of any of these items.
The cities vote majority blue, but none of the states around them do. CA would never separate from the union as a whole, SF, LA, Sacramento, and San Diego would have to try to become city-states on their own.
Majority of military below officer level is likely red voters, as is likely the majority of veterans, and both are likely half or more than half outside the blue cities. So who leads the fight?
Breaking out would require going on the offensive, so the red areas would be in a stronger position, and can resupply themselves.
This is oversimplification, but broadly true.
stewartm0205@reddit
Being Republicans doesn’t automatically mean you are going to help other Republicans kill all the Democrats. There is a big gap between voting Republican and murdering Democrats. NYC has in city generation. It also has enough gas turbine generators to power the entire city. The city has airports and heliports. It has weapons storage depots and national guard units. It has a coast guard unit and harbor patrols. It’s had armored troop carriers. It has the largest police force in the nation with a large percentage of them ex-military. Only a small fraction of the military will obey the order to kill millions of civilians. The rest will stop them from doing so. It’s a fantasy to think millions will only die on one side. The true is that millions will die on both sides. And then the Chinese and the Russians will come and kill the survivors.
VillageIdiotNo1@reddit
Oh, I'm not dumb enough to think that fight, which I cannot think of a way of ever occurring(thankfully) would be one sided.
It would be awful, would tear the nation down for generations, and would reshape the entire world in a negative way.
The urban areas have a proble., though, because there are millions of people that depend on a surpisingly fragile support network to exist.
The NYPD will be helpless when 5 million people start starving and turn on each other, for instance.
I expect if such a theorycrafted conflict occurred the active military will refuse to participate in general. It would likely provide humanitarian aid only.
National guard units may have a higher participation rate, since they are more closely tied to geographical areas.
I doubt Russia or China would get involved. If the US removes itself from the world stage, they will likely just take advantage to pursue whatever their goals are. No one else on earth has the ability to move a whole military across the planet that the US has.
My original point is just that in so many of these discussions people talk about red and blue states. The reality is small blue island city-states in a sea of red.
I always see people tout that CA has the largest agricultural output for instance, and can therefore stand on its own. But the hollywood actors and tech bros and baristas in the coastal cities are not the ones that grow that food, and they get water from the more mountainous areas to the east.
People also talk about how cities pay the most taxes and are wealthier, but in this kind of world-ending situation, what good is that money for? You can't expect France to send help in exchange for accounting and coding services. Etc..
Hopefully we never find out how civil conflict goes down in modern America and everyone who is excited about it needs to calm down.
stewartm0205@reddit
You kind of think it would be one sided to your side’s benefit. NYC doesn’t stand alone. It’s is a densely populated metropolitan area of over 30 million people many of which live next to the sea. It’s also the financial capital of the world so don’t expect to cash any paychecks.
Thinking something like this would be easy is how people get into deep trouble.
The_Dude-1@reddit
What a bunch of BS, never gonna happen. The fear mongering is amazing
DRKMSTR@reddit
Nope.
Not an issue.
The genius comes in the fact that they'll be deporting violent criminals.
Many will self deport.
The remaining will likely get tossed into an immigration process.
It's just "the big ask" and all negotiating stuff. I'll believe "ITS NAZI GERMANY" when literally any of that comes to pass.
Inclusive_3Dprinting@reddit
People want this, they voted for it. No one is going to wage war to protect people here illegally.
SkyRaisin@reddit
Here is a link to the r/law OP’s sources
https://www.reddit.com/r/law/s/qb4FqPnqoV
Kara_WTQ@reddit
Not a civil war, a fascist coup.
If you want to understand what's about to happen, please research the fall of the Weimar Republic. Here is the playbook: Mobilization of private citizens into loyal para-military organizations
Consolidation of state security forces
Vilification/persecution of minority groups
Staged Crisis flashpoint
Sweeping authoritarian decrees.
Widespread arrests of those deemed disloyal.
The real questions now are: how long will it take?
What will be the "Crisis?"
And which side are you on?
No_Biscotti_7258@reddit
What’s the source of this other than another subreddit that posted the same conveniently cropped photo
Trung_gundriver@reddit
taking all you assume about this asshole, it is a fucking civil war.
OhGreatMoreWhales@reddit
Source?
bearfootmedic@reddit
Appears to be an Atlantic article from February.
Source
2A_in_CA@reddit
The Atlantic? Pfffft
bearfootmedic@reddit
Bruh - Trump has said repeatedly he's gonna send federal agencies and national guard to target blue cities. I too was skeptical about the source so I found it - but there's nothing new here.
It sounds bad because it is bad. You should be against anyone saying this sorta shit.
bigboldbanger@reddit
lol, the atlantic. opinion discarded.
bearfootmedic@reddit
🤷♂️
Trump did say he was going to deploy federal agencies and the national guard etc on "blue" cities and target his political enemies. It seems that the constitutionalists only care about their rights - cus this seems to be opposed to everything they have said for decades. It's literally what all of the militia groups are afraid of: federal overreach, violations of posse comitatus...
votewithyourass@reddit
This should be higher. That kind of shit needs a source
Phedericus@reddit
source: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2024/02/trumps-immigration-plan-is-even-more-aggressive-now/677385/
EDIT: no paywall: https://archive.is/2024.02.13-183058/https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2024/02/trumps-immigration-plan-is-even-more-aggressive-now/677385/
EDIT 2: the primary source is this interview Stephen Miller did at Charlie Kirk's podcast https://www.truthnetwork.com/show/the-charlie-kirk-show-charlie-kirk/72387/
found thanks to this article:
https://eu.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/ej-montini/2024/02/14/trump-deportation-plan-impact-arizona/72598176007/
EDIT 3: Washington Post article about it
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/02/22/trump-immigration-deportation-miller/
Phedericus@reddit
source: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2024/02/trumps-immigration-plan-is-even-more-aggressive-now/677385/
EDIT: no paywall: https://archive.is/2024.02.13-183058/https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2024/02/trumps-immigration-plan-is-even-more-aggressive-now/677385/
EDIT 2: apparently, the primary source is this interview Stephen Miller did at Charlie Kirk's podcast https://www.truthnetwork.com/show/the-charlie-kirk-show-charlie-kirk/72387/
found thanks to this article:
https://eu.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/ej-montini/2024/02/14/trump-deportation-plan-impact-arizona/72598176007/
EDIT 3: Washington Post article about it
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/02/22/trump-immigration-deportation-miller/
gqjeff@reddit
Civil war with a bunch o bald ass Karen’s? Lmfao gtfoh working last a week!!!! MAGA
Diesel-flipper@reddit
Blue states have already said they don’t want federal forces conducting these illegal deportation. It’s the perfect pretense for armed conflict.
QueenieAndRover@reddit
I think he underestimates the size of the country and overestimates the size of these guard regiments.
Tediential@reddit
Supremacy clause gives the feds the right to enforce federal law over the objection of states, counties, Or municipalities.
We've fought a war over this long ago.
Like someone else said, it's largely bullshit because theres no capacity to house process, or transport thay many people.
They can however Hensley populated areas or known workplace violators to make millions feel uncomfortable and voluntarily leave...which i think whay most of the rhetoric is
BackStageTech13@reddit
Si much for state rights eh?
Enzo-Unversed@reddit
Dems are willing to go to insane lengths to prevent illegal immigrants from being removed from the country. I think specifically looking for Red state militias will be difficult to pull off, but someone needs to end the sanctuary state nonsense and enforce immigration laws. Illegal immigration isn't a state's right.
Due_Satisfaction2167@reddit
It’s certainly not the state’s responsibility to enforce federal immigration law.
Enzo-Unversed@reddit
It's the state's job not to protect illegal immigrants and waste tax payers dollars on them.
Due_Satisfaction2167@reddit
It is absolutely the state’s job to provide services to their residents and protect their privacy from federal overreach. The state shouldn’t waste a single dime on enforcing federal immigration law, that is abusing the trust of taxpayers.
The federal government can enforce federal laws with its own resources.
Enzo-Unversed@reddit
Illegal immigrants aren't their residents.
UpstairsAd4755@reddit
I 100% agree. Because illegals can move freely throughout the country, it's not a state issue, it's federal. I'm all for getting them the hell out of here
angeloy@reddit
Americans are too overweight and pampered to have a civil war. The taking of Fentanyl Farm? The surrender of the Buc-ee's Battalion? The Battle for Tater Tot Ridge? It would just look like a bunch of idiots in cargo shorts and Crocs raiding a Walmart on Black Friday.
RealCalintx@reddit
The “civil war” will just be people fucking with the grid and water source. Much like 2021 after Biden took office. Basically State of Pussy Jefferson shit
Poopsock_Piper@reddit
It would be hilarious seeing all these fat fucks try and hold composure in a firefight. It is so taxing on the body, they'd be out of breath and vomiting.
anon848848@reddit
It would be kinda fun to see their battle ready motorized scooters - just gotta hope they have places to charge them
DonaldDoubleU@reddit
Ramirez! Secure the Burger Town!
Roostar64@reddit
The surrender of the Buc-ee’s battalion is one of the funniest things I have read on the internet in a long time. Thank you for making my day.
papertowelfreethrow@reddit
🤣 yea no way this actually happens. Conservatives are too chicken and liberals are too dumb. We saw this during covid.
KoolAidTheyThem@reddit
liberals are too dumb? Im sorry, we didnt elect the retard.
despot_zemu@reddit
That’s what they said about Yugoslavia in 1990
lisajeanius@reddit
In 1951 America along with 196 other countries signed a treaty with the UN to ensure all asylum seekers are granted;
1. A fair screening
2. The same treatment as citizens.
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2018/07/20/629564140/amid-migrant-crises-nations-flout-international-law-on-refugees
Stach302RiverC@reddit
Coming Soon!! it's Civil War Redux!! I love the smell of Napalm in the morning!!
Gammagammahey@reddit
laughs nervously
Allliesalllies17@reddit
BY WHATEVER MEANS NECESSARY
get the freeloading criminal scumbags ILLEGALS out!!! You whiny ass libtards can go to it you’d like.
MAGA
Mediocre-Pay-365@reddit
I thought they wanted less federal government and more state rights. Huh.
proof-of-w0rk@reddit
States rights to do the things republicans want them to do. Like ban abortions and stuff.
If you give states the right to do everything, they might also do things republicans don’t like…
Popular_Parsnip_8494@reddit
It was never about a fundamental belief in state's rights, it's all about control.
Cautious-Roof2881@reddit
lol, engagement account... or a kid....
tel4bob@reddit
Well, I was blessed to live in a free country for 69 years, but I sure feel sorry for my descendants.
Simple_Employer2968@reddit
🥲
Simple_Employer2968@reddit
A civil war is usually defined by historians as a 1,000 deaths per year based on politics. My knowledge of history, sociology, and the inability to see the humanity of others have me thinking we will far surpass 1,000 per year. I am independent. In my opinion, there was no good outcome of this election. But I do believe this is the worst of the two. The moment a large group loses their ability to see the humanity of another group, they lose a part of their humanity. Look at history. We have been on the path for a civil war. The threats occurring lead me to believe there will be tremendous violence and the other side won’t have a choice. And I’m pretty sure most people like me are even tired of attempting to be a peacemaker. I think the America we know is gone. And I imagine this comment will attacked more by one side than the other completely proving my point. It’s sad. Both sides have more in common with each other than the politicians they vote for. But as long as they continue to fight each other things will only get worse for the working class, the middle class, the working poor, and the poor.
dannyboi12335@reddit
This is a op ed. This is the technical and intellectual equivalent of a school newspaper article.
Frontpageorlurk@reddit
Man I love reddit. I muted r/law specifically because of this toliet water post and here it is again...
Longjumping-Day7821@reddit
Nope. Never gonna happen. They’re not gonna deploys the guards on each other between states. That’s ridiculous. Compliance would happen through defunding of states. Not through military action.
CannyGardener@reddit
The noncompliant states are the ones paying the bills =\ I think it may pan out opposite from what you are suggesting. I agree, this is settled in the courts and halls of power, before anything crazy happens.
AVGJOE78@reddit
Yeah, come on up to NYC and see how that turns out for you.
UpstairsAd4755@reddit
Ah yes, you'll make scary faces at them and shake your fist really really hard!
AVGJOE78@reddit
Are the 1,000 or so gravy seals from Alabama going to drool all over 9 million people?
UpstairsAd4755@reddit
Idk, depends on who has more guns, I suppose.
AVGJOE78@reddit
That’s cute. You just keep thinking that way princess.
UpstairsAd4755@reddit
Lol @ your response. You're taking the whole "new York invasion" thing pretty personally and talking to me like I actually give a shit about it one way or the other
AVGJOE78@reddit
You were the one who responded with the tough guy comments pal. Do you know what the number ratio is on an urban objective that large? You just stumble into my mentions like a child, babbling incoherent nonsense.
UpstairsAd4755@reddit
Nope, I bet you don't either.
"Tough guy comments"? Please, elaborate
If it was so "incoherent", why even respond ?
AVGJOE78@reddit
Doctrinally? 3 to 1 - and It’s a pretty common axiom.
Tough guy comments? “Ah yes. What are you going to do? Make scary faces at them and shake your fist real hard?” “It depends who has the guns.”
Incoherent nonsense? See points 1 and 2.
UpstairsAd4755@reddit
Weird... it's almost like youre projecting
Oh yeah, you're definitely projecting
Ah, taking the obvious troll comment so seriously... just lmao
Ah yes, the "i suppose" on the end was very tough and badass... super "Tough guy" comment showing how much I really cared
More projecting
Would you mind pointing me to where I might read this doctrine, id find it very interesting
AVGJOE78@reddit
You want me to hold your little hand and show you how to use the google button?
Buckfutter8D@reddit
Uh oh.
AVGJOE78@reddit
How did the civil war turn out for them last time again?
Legitimate-Smell4377@reddit
Tons of people died on both sides, food, water and supplies were stolen, infrastructure destroyed, a lot of pillaging, raping and burning. So this time it’ll be that but with automatic weapons, armored vehicles, predator drones and leadership that could not give a shit less as long as money keeps flowing into their pockets.
AVGJOE78@reddit
The funny thing is, they think people would be fighting the government directly - oh no if that happens I’m willing to bet people go for the soft targets, right to the source - these billionaires.
imothro@reddit
Well, they didn't have control of the federal government and military last time so...
Buckfutter8D@reddit
I’m not sure what you’re asking me. It ended poorly for the confederacy. A big part of that was the anaconda plan. Most of NYC would be incredibly easy to prevent the flow of goods into. Add to that the heavily disarmed population, preventing an effective guerrilla movement. Only hope would be NYNG. If Trump were to federalize them, what would they do?
For the record, I dont think any of this sort of stuff will happen, nor do I wish it to. It’s more of a thought experiment.
manalexicon@reddit
You’re overthinking it. Cheaper to do an upgraded operation flagship. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Flagship
Fun-Transition-4867@reddit
Any state official or agency willingly aiding and abetting federal criminals would be facing federal consequences. The states can't tell the feds what constitutes a federal crime (if you enter the US illegally, you are violating our federal laws). That violates the 10th Amendment.
Under Conscientious Objector doctrine, you can sit out your orders to participate, but you'll be sitting it out in a jai cell.
TerminallyBlitzed@reddit
No. This is just some author who has no idea what they’re talking about fear mongering.
The president cannot deploy federal troops on US soil for police operations, this is known as posse comiatatus, unless there is martial law.
However, the president, with the consent of state governor(s), can federalize national guard troops. Since national guard troops belong to the states they must have the governors consent. Then the troops can be used for domestic operations, to an extent. This is more or less what they did in Little Rock, Arkansas.
imothro@reddit
It's cute how you think that laws still apply. Keep that optimism, buddy.
HappyAnimalCracker@reddit
Exactly. The judicial branch has already said he’ll get no resistance from them.
Popular_Parsnip_8494@reddit
Habeas Corpus can be suspended in the event of an invasion.
Which is the exact term Trump is using to describe the migrant crisis.
imothro@reddit
I mean...the person quoted is Stephen Miller who has been named Trump's policy chief and deputy chief of staff.
TerminallyBlitzed@reddit
It’s not a direct quote from Miller, that’s why there’s no quotes, it’s the author deliberately editorializing his words to portray it as something it’s not. Miller has never said they’re going create a private red-state army.
The quote the author is trying to pull is from Charlie Kirk’s podcast Miller appeared on which the actual quote is “You go to the red state governors and you say, give us your National Guard,” Miller explained on Kirk’s podcast. “We will deputize them as immigration enforcement officers…the Alabama National Guard is going to arrest illegal aliens in Alabama and the Virginia National Guard in Virginia. And if you’re going to go into an unfriendly state like Maryland, well, there would just be Virginia doing the arrest in Maryland, right, very close, very nearby” https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2024/01/trump-2024-immigration-policy-mass-deportations-stephen-miller/
The Atlantic is the only publication that calls this a private red-state army. That is wildly different from the National Guard.
imothro@reddit
It's not the only publication that calls it this. There are corresponding articles in the Washington Post and NYTimes.
The original podcast is below if people want to judge for themselves. Your quote doesn't quite go far enough to describe what is discussed.
https://thecharliekirkshow.com/podcasts/the-charlie-kirk-show/sweeping-raids-mass-deportations-donald-trumps-202
It's also worth noting that Miller's own Twitter states that they intend to heavily denaturalize people who are already american citizens (for those who do not know what that means, that is stripping them of citizenship and deporting them).
bootsmade4Walken@reddit
Right, so what he's going to do is take the troops from loyal "good" red states and deploy them to blue states. He'll bully the governors by withholding federal funding if they don't comply.
TerminallyBlitzed@reddit
Other states troops cannot enter another state unless invited by the governor.
But like you said they can withhold federal funding.
imothro@reddit
They can if you own the supreme court and ignore all laws thusly.
bootsmade4Walken@reddit
This is rules as written eight days after an election.
Trump has four more years.
You think the rules will be the same after all of this?
grahamfiend2@reddit
I think the gist and concern, though, is that all bets are off on what a president can or can’t do at this point. He has shown time and time again that he has no regard for norms or even laws.
I saw someone write the other day - the past 10 years has been a basketball game between democrats and republicans where democrats have constantly said “that’s against the rules” while republicans have dunked them over and over.
HarkansawJack@reddit
Oh no….what if the national guard troops and the police kill eachother…🫡
Fuzzy-Row-5915@reddit
This would most definitely lead to at least small guerrilla groups. We were winning Afghanistan with special operations and the CIA in the beginning. Then they threw the big military in and they killed a bunch of innocents and friendlies, giving the Taliban a leg up in propaganda. These were actually trained infantry and active duty. Imagine what will happen with National Guard troops trying to do the same thing of weeding out people. Yeah it’s not a one for one situation, but while we speak the same language, the cultures are significantly different. Does anyone really think a bunch of ill trained national guardsmen are capable of effectively doing anything along these lines? It will undoubtedly lead to a ton of deaths & violent resistance will inevitably ensue.
BlockMeBruh@reddit
Where is this from? Can you link an article?
Vensurething@reddit (OP)
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2024/02/trumps-immigration-plan-is-even-more-aggressive-now/677385/
BlockMeBruh@reddit
Thank you
jackson69kc@reddit
Sign me up
Impossible_Range6953@reddit
He is in the oval office right now and we gave him an absolute mandate.
I don't see what the issue is at this point. That's what we voted for (dems, rep, non voters and everything in between).
HybridVigor@reddit
Visiting President Biden?
Impossible_Range6953@reddit
I meant Miller has been nominated as deputy chief of staff. That puts him in the inner circles.
BladedNinja23198@reddit
A civil war is not happening, not in our lifetimes
Germainshalhope@reddit
I'm sure people thought that in 1850
BladedNinja23198@reddit
Problem is things were not the same during 1850
CannyGardener@reddit
I know this is Reddit...but big claims without any sort of argument to back them are looked down upon.
Ok-Preparation-3138@reddit
Let's get this party started.
remotereyy@reddit
The reality is they don’t care about illegal immigrants. It’s all a facade for power. Why not fine or criminalize hiring illegal immigrants? Because it’s de facto government and business interest to have cheap labor. Sure some immigrants will be deported here and there but it’s all in the interest of increasing their power.
Itsnotthatsimplesam@reddit
You know it's already illegal to knowingly hire illegal immigrants right?
Logical___Conclusion@reddit
Trump intends to use the military first to carry out mass detention and deportation of immigrants, and then against people who disagree politically.
To do that, he first needs to compel the military to act, and then purge any resistance with his plan to create a panel to fire Generals who do not fall in line with his moves towards Fascism.
We know for certain that Trump intends to carry out mass deportations, and the MAGA followers have been working on ways to force migrants to get violent so that they can require the military to put down the "terrorists."
A common tactic in the Inquisition was for Inquisitors to mutilate and dissect little children in front of their parents to get a rise out of them, and prove their "guilt."
In a similar tactic, MAGA followers (or potentially National Guard from Red States) will target migrant kids to get a rise out of their parents. In order to show that migrants are violent and that extreme violence against all migrants is needed to "keep America safe."
Physical assaults, rape, and intense harassment are likely tactics that will be used against suspected migrant children to compel their parents to violently defend them.
This will be the first step before any military purges take place. Any hesitation from generals will be used as justification to get rid of them. That way when they reach the phase of going after people who disagree with Trump politically, Trump will have purged any Generals who would not support Trump's massive push towards Fascism.
starmen999@reddit
But we don't need a revolution or anything.
Call_It_@reddit
No
Purpleshlurpy@reddit
grassy xxxx is it gnoll or knoll?
chillumbaby@reddit
He is one evil sick bastard.
Kendle_C@reddit
Here's the thing, old illegal invaders from earlier times think they will be kicked out, we haven't defined the PARAMETERS of the operation, make it clear it will be recent ones, the ones with cell phones, not the people who have long ago put down roots and integrated themselves into society.
AdHealthy5050@reddit
They must not know about them gangsta ass kids that have military firepower as well lol..not to mention everyone else..but id gladly die fighting against MaGaTs
Raddish3030@reddit
Civil War battle #1 was bringing in as many illegal migrants as possible with one side doing it/forcing tolerance about it. OVERWHELMING democrat victroy
Civil War battle #2 is going to be deporting the greatest amount of people as possible with one side doing it/forcing tolerance about it. To be determined.
packeddit@reddit
Clown ⬆️
c_galen_b@reddit
And so it begins. Buckle up, it's going to be a bumpy ride.
CommissionFeisty9843@reddit
Stock up on ammo. Get an armored place to fire from in a window or st
Blueporch@reddit
Yeah, that will end well
despot_zemu@reddit
Mass deportations rarely end well.
ryan2489@reddit
Mass importation wasn’t the brightest idea to begin with
despot_zemu@reddit
Sure it was, cheap farm labor is necessary
Radiant_Repeat_8735@reddit
Classic democrat argument. If we don’t import unskilled third world laborers, how will the cotton get picked?
We could pay people that live here a fair wage and treat them fairly. Instead of making Hondurans run a cartel rape gauntlet through a desert to do it for peanuts instead lol
despot_zemu@reddit
Wouldn’t that be nice? Except the economics don’t work for that, we’d lose markets due to the price of agricultural products tripling or quadrupling. This would also be incredibly inflationary.
These are good things, in my opinion, but we’ve delayed so long it’s gonna HURT.
Blueporch@reddit
I think the rational answer is to streamline the guest worker visa program. You’re absolutely right that we rely on farm workers from South of the border.
LadyTentacles@reddit
Blue states have a lot of money. $100k bounty per invader?
Awkward_Tower3891@reddit
Jesus. Sounds like Trump want his own personal 'SS' army.
CrustyShoelaces@reddit
"I want loyal generals like Hitler had" - actual quote
Awkward_Tower3891@reddit
Bloody hell.
fultonsoccer7@reddit
That's EXACTLY what he wants. He wants to gut military leadership and install MAGA yes men
Parking_Persimmon876@reddit
Not really. the POTUS is the Commander in Chief of the National Guard, and he can deploy the National Guard wheverever he wants, to do whatever he wants. What they're trying to address is these state and local sanctuary laws which forbid local governments from assisting the Federal Government with deportation. Which is fine (although I think it's a stupid, technocratic and fundamentally undemocratic practice to selectively enforce the laws), but if the Federal Government sends Federal Agents to carry out the law, that would be completely within the lawful constitutional authority of the government.
Doing the deportations is not the difficult part. Finding out who is here illegally without violating the Fourth Amendment is the difficult part.
Twd25@reddit
Get those Go-backs! If they haven’t started their paperwork bye bye!👋
Gary_Lazer_Eyes21@reddit
Shots going tits up now. Y’all fucked up
soonPE@reddit
Sooo Illegal immigration is a good thing
thingsIlearnedtoday
This sub is beyond repair.
despot_zemu@reddit
Yo, illegal immigration might not be good, but marching military units around to attempt door to door residency checks is way worse, don’t you think?
chrundlethegreat303@reddit
Marching Door to door ….. is not happening tho ( and will not happen )
there are already tens of millions of illegal aliens in our country…. Let’s deal with the actual problem?
imothro@reddit
Since the source content of this post explicitly states that's the plan, I'm assuming this must be a literacy issue. That's cool. I read today that 51% of americans are functionally illiterate. That must be hard.
Nemo_Shadows@reddit
Doubtful since the treasonous acts of an unnamed party has been a deliberate orchestration to cause one to begin with and it should be noted that just because one passes a law to make a crime not look like a crime does not mean it is not a crime because of the law passed democratically or not, there are too many of those kinds of laws on the books and doctoring the judicial for either side of the fence to get your way or theirs is also UNCONSTITUIONAL.
N. S
lyonslicer@reddit
Please use punctuation. It'll be easier to read what you're trying to say.
Moribunned@reddit
They seem to want to do everything to instigate a civil war other than outright declaring one.
They want to control the country by force and force their ideals on anyone who doesn’t fall in line with them.
LudovicoSpecs@reddit
1-month old account stirring the pot all over Reddit.
not-sure-what-to-put@reddit
Gunna be wild when they invade California and Massachusetts and no one does a goddamn thing.
ZenythhtyneZ@reddit
What is this from?
Phedericus@reddit
source: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2024/02/trumps-immigration-plan-is-even-more-aggressive-now/677385/
EDIT: no paywall: https://archive.is/2024.02.13-183058/https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2024/02/trumps-immigration-plan-is-even-more-aggressive-now/677385/
EDIT 2: the primary source is this interview Stephen Miller did at Charlie Kirk's podcast https://www.truthnetwork.com/show/the-charlie-kirk-show-charlie-kirk/72387/
found thanks to this article:
https://eu.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/ej-montini/2024/02/14/trump-deportation-plan-impact-arizona/72598176007/
EDIT 3: Washington Post article about it
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/02/22/trump-immigration-deportation-miller/
Worth_Specific8887@reddit
It means immigrants should be vetted before they just stroll into the US. Pretty simple. Not a radical idea.
Pretending that foreign gangs and criminals don't keep an eye on our immigration and borde patrol is very naive and foolish.
EspHack@reddit
back when adults dominated the scene, this would be resolved by having rogue state citizens unable to travel into compliant states without a visa or something
Due_Satisfaction2167@reddit
That is specifically unconstitutional, in a manner which would cause a civil war.
Plus, you know, “the rogue states” are the ones that pay the bills, so that would go pretty badly for the US government.
ky420@reddit
It can be done they forced integration at gunpoint in the 60s
jugo5@reddit
ISN'T THAT WHAT HITLER DID? CREATE HIS OWN ARMY ESSENTIALLY.
StormPoppa@reddit
Exactly what this dumbass author wants you to think Trump is going to do because with all roads lead to Trump is a nazi apparently.
traplords8n@reddit
Man, I was just telling someone else in this sub to stop deluding themselves into thinking there will be a civil war.
Still pretty unlikely, but it's a real damn shame there's any risk at all.
Dense_Ad1118@reddit
Article VI, Clause 2 (Supremacy Clause) clearly states that federal law overrides state law when there is a conflict. The federal government has every right to enforce national immigration law.
Ineludible_Ruin@reddit
How tf do you make stuff about prepping so political? Gtfo here please.
ShittyStockPicker@reddit
Holy fuck this is straight out of the dictator playbook. Like, literally. Not even a joke in the slightest
Rip1072@reddit
Perhaps ice arrest teams sweep in and arrest illegals, perhaps most law enforcement agencies cooperate, perhaps at the first challenge the officers involved, their chiefs and mayor's find themselves in federal custody, no bond, while this is adjudicated, perhaps charges involving fostering terrorism, sedition, etc, etc. Perhaps the IRS is used to clarify proper adherence to law, perhaps.
leo_aureus@reddit
If this happens for real, no foreign adversary would be worth being considered as such if they did not shoot 2-3 EMPs off over CONUS and turn the lights off on everyone for a while
xxhamzxx@reddit
This won't happen lmao
SkYeBlu699@reddit
Where was this vitrol last week when you had the chance to vote on it.
Pesty_Merc@reddit
Apparently most American voters do not consider bunkering illegal immigrants in their country a priority.
jar1967@reddit
If you want to stop illegal immigration , go after the people who hire them.
Pesty_Merc@reddit
In my opinion cutting off all freebies and prosecuting companies that hire legal immigrants for slave wages would cause 80% of them to self deport in a year. Lots of them are economic migrants, and changing that would make them leave of their own accord.
MonsterMash64@reddit
So if that's truly the problem, then it sounds like doing that the problem would fix itself. So whats the issue?
jonstoppable@reddit
that's how you know its all bs and the system is broken the way it is intended to be.
they get cheap labour and dont have to pay benefits.. after a raid, they get some new bodies to exploit.
if they REALLY were serious about penalising illegal immigration, go after the real benficiaries.
walmart .
real estate.
all of the companies that have enough resources to investigate their supply chain but chose to turn a blind eye.
the same way they would treat something drug related, seize business and shutdown.ç
what do you mean, that would cripple america ?. oh..
mortalitylost@reddit
It sucks that people will get so mad about how society fucks them, meanwhile they don't even use the tiny bit of fucking power we have
Vensurething@reddit (OP)
I did
Throwaway_accound69@reddit
Imagine a blatant 4 Amendment violation, then a 3rd Amendment violation just for poops and giggles
PlentyBat9940@reddit
No. Thanks for concern tho.
velvetvortex@reddit
So either Trump talks a lot trash, but rules as a mostly typical Republican, or the midterm election is replaced with a plebiscite to make him President for Life with 98% votes in favour. I suggest he call his private army the Special Auxiliaries.
Gagulta@reddit
Don't worry, this isn't going to happen.
Drycabin1@reddit
Good. Deport them all. America has spoken.
baggagehandlr@reddit
MMW this ends up being a "we were just doing what we were told" historical event.
Dave-Tree-Strider@reddit
Putins plan
backcountry57@reddit
I doubt this or any other extreme plan will happen, it will get blocked by the courts. Trump will then publicly announce that Democrats are blocking him and he can't do anything. That way he has tried to fulfill a promise but it's not his fault it didn't happen.
dyrnwyn580@reddit
His own loyal para military force to round up and harass people? Ooh! Can we get them brown shirts and have Rohm lead them?
packeddit@reddit
Yes it will. You can’t tell who’s an undocumented immigration. So these deportation squads are just gonna stop and handcuff anyone who’s non-white, specifically brown and black. Thats gonna cause literal chaos and riots in the streets as these communities are upended. It’s also gonna lead to physical resistance among brown/black neighborhoods as they’re gonna RIGHTFULLY protect themselves (people need to realize brown/black citizens own a lot more guns compared to the Tulsa Race Massacre days) using lethal force if needed. That’lol cause these deportation squads to start shooting people…leading to more riots in the street.
I had civil war starting around 2040-45…I now have it starting by end of 2030, but honestly I think it starts by 2028.
OkEconomy7315@reddit
The incoming 4 years are gonna be damn shitty for usa sure thing
PuzzleheadedGene7689@reddit
This sub has been infiltrated with idiots.
mad_bitcoin@reddit
So they are sending brown shirts into states that disagree with the administration? America gone and fucked up!!!
TheeVagabond@reddit
Theres no way one could spin something like that as good for the country. I'm sure the half-wits in the maga cult will make excuses though.
God damn stephen miller is a creepy little goblin.
NomadActual7@reddit
Human_Style_6920@reddit
Disaster capitalism -
Illustrious_Ice_4587@reddit
I don't think governors and blue states would be super against the deportations of those who committed a crime or recently crossed the border. The question is if trump and others intend to stop just there, who else they might include down the line.
OhGreatMoreWhales@reddit
Source?
popthestacks@reddit
lol, no a governor cannot use their own forces in another state without an agreement with the other state
Not saying it’s impossible but lots of laws would have to get changed here
Before yall start talking about republican majority, this would be incredibly unpopular and id think little chance of happening.
Trump tested the limits of our system of checks and balances, and power consolidation but at the end of the day it still held
chi-nyc@reddit
Nope, under Section 1076 the president could federalize the NG of both states. No permission needed from either governor, no change to existing laws required. A little more concerning (IMO) is that if the NG is being used by POTUS in an LE capacity (not militarily), posse comitatus doesn't apply.
sirshitsalot69@reddit
He has all branches and supreme court now and is already talking about getting rid of dis loyal generals. Pucker up America you voted for this
ALinIndy@reddit
When did he ever get checked, or balanced? Maybe building the border wall, but aside from that, he was (and still is) allowed to run roughshod over everyone in government—no matter how powerful.