Infrastructure breakdown is going to accelerate and is about to get way, way more expensive under Trump's tariffs
Posted by Mr_LoudPuppers@reddit | collapse | View on Reddit | 59 comments
I work for a company that sells parts for HVAC/R systems and other building parts. Been in business for decades. You have no idea what's coming if Trump's policies go into effect.
Additional information: Before the pandemic, we'd order parts from around 90 different manufacturers. There are standard lead times and CPI-adjusted yearly pricing increases on most products. Usually those lead times were between 3-14 business days. Yearly price adjustments and increases usually hovered between 1% and 5%, but always steady and predictable. With the exception of some outliers, these things were predictable and stable.
Since the pandemic, the manufacturers of these products have struggled to keep up with orders. First it was the shutdown of factories in China. That pushed some lead times out up to 6 months. It takes a lot of time, effort, money, and planning to bring a factory back online. Some Chinese manufacturers took the opportunity of the pandemic to change the way they did business; usually for the better. It still isn't enough.
Prices have been all over the board the last couple of years. There have been component shortages. Last year some manufacturers had price list increases of up to 15% to make up for unexpected costs since the pandemic.
Most of the products we sell come from either China, Taiwan, Mexico, or Denmark. If I could give a ballpark figure, I'd say 96% of the products are made outside of the United States. And even products made in the US rely on foreign parts or materials.
Since a lot of parts manufacturers end their fiscal year in September, this is usually the time of those price list updates. Manufacturers are already working to factor in a possible 20-60% price increase across the board on ALL parts due to the Trump tariffs plan. We don't eat those costs. Those pricing increases are passed on to customers. Sorry. That's capitalism.
There has also been an uptick in what I'd call "panic orders" of companies attempting to buy out available stock at current prices. This may lead to shortages.
If Trump's isolationist policies and tariffs go through, expect those price increases to go into effect immediately.
We sell parts to hospitals, schools, private residences, commercial office buildings, and civil infrastructure. Sales especially increase incredibly after natural disasters. Floods, hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes.
One day soon it may be a common occurrence to wait up to 8 months for a new AC unit or heating part and be hit with those price increases due to tariffs. With the 1-2 punch of price increases plus incredibly long waits for parts, this will put a lot of small businesses out of business. Houses, office buildings, hospitals, schools, water filtration systems, and more could be offline for months or years without being able to quickly repair or replace their HVAC systems. And if you can't quickly repair your HVAC systems, especially in humid climates, expect mold and mildew problems to become rampant, possibly leading to the problem of blighted, abandoned buildings. Insect problems are common in unheated buildings, too.
You might not think about it, but the parts we sell are required to keep civil society running smoothly and if it gets as bad as I think it might, a lot of people are about to experience the most uncomfortable and devastating period of their life. My advice: Buy your own emergency water filtration system now and plan for major interruptions after natural disasters. Communities aren't going to be able to bounce back quickly after them.
I hope cooler heads prevail and none of the worst of it comes to pass. If a trade war with China begins (or worse, a kinetic war and/or they take Taiwan), our ability to repair and build infrastructure will be cut off at the knees and our economy would come to a halt.
dumnezero@reddit
I often feel like this should be obvious. The isolationists/autaraky fans do not comprehend that they have to reduce their technology level by... half a century or a century to reach a level that can work out locally, at best.
aiLiXiegei4yai9c@reddit
They have have salaries that depend on them, and their employers, not comprehending the need to degrow. Altho to be fair, at this point really, it's not about a "need" to degrow. It's just something that's going to happen no matter what we do.
dumnezero@reddit
Degrowth is organized, planned, thought out. Collapse is not.
aiLiXiegei4yai9c@reddit
Call me a pessimist, but I don't see much in the way of organization and planning these days. I see denialism, scapegoating and resource wars, just as expected.
dumnezero@reddit
Oh, I agree. /r/Degrowth is pretty much incompatible with capitalism. We live in capitalist systems now, so...
aiLiXiegei4yai9c@reddit
We operate in a capitalist system, that much is true. The problem is no amount of anti-capitalism will save us at this point. We cannot feed and shelter 8 billion humans without the use of fossil fuels. Eat the rich = long pork for a week. Then what?
dumnezero@reddit
It's not really clear that this is a fact or what the closest number is. Feel free to throw me some papers on it, I'm familiar with ecological overshoot and the ecological footprint and I talk about it all the time. Here's a fun screenshot I posted a while ago from Bill Rees: https://www.reddit.com/r/collapze/comments/zwbtpf/a_sustainable_lifestyle_another_slide_from/
You're also not getting the point of transition. It's one thing to make fossil fuels go "poof" tomorrow and it's another to do that in 50 years.
The transition aspects are the most important, and that also includes population. Degrowth literature doesn't start with it, but it does get to it too.
I'm not a fan of the "eat the rich" shortcut, that's not a strategy, that's an event and it's not even that useful. https://www.crimethinc.com/2019/04/08/against-the-logic-of-the-guillotine-why-the-paris-commune-burned-the-guillotine-and-we-should-too
Yes, read the literature, find the answers.
aiLiXiegei4yai9c@reddit
Yours is one of the saner voices over here. I appreciate your feedback. Thank you
dumnezero@reddit
Well, I'm leaving. :D
Shoddy-Childhood-511@reddit
Yes, tarifs increase prices, because you're forced into using more local labor, which costs more. As a "predistributive" economic measure, tarifs would theoretically help enormously by giving workers more barganing power, but only if you invest in building up the industries that produce those parts. Trump said he'd end the IRA, so the opposite of what tarifs require.
https://x.com/NLonguetMarx/status/1717198645387219414
https://www.metafilter.com/206236/Predistribution-vs-redistribution
Anyways, America's economy collapsing would slow ecological collapse, making that desirable. A kinetic war between the US and China sounds even more benefitial ecologically, especially if both countries blow up the others' allies oil refineries. Ain't likely either happens too soon though..
American has a fairly strong oil industry, even if franking wells go dry super fast now. America's economy cannot really collapse any more than Russia's did under sanctions. Who cares if an iPhone costs 3k USD?
Real collapse comes when food supplies become really tight, which shall occur in some places, but not too quickly in the US or EU. At minimum we should've warnings int he form of years and years of food riots.
uberduger@reddit
If the US economy was at the risk of collapse, what's to stop some enterprising business person starting to actually make these components and such in the US? I am not gonna sit here and go 'hey, these tarriffs are great!" but if things look that dire, why aren't people buying buildings and equipment to make components now? If it's that serious, someone's got to make it happen.
Mr_LoudPuppers@reddit (OP)
Since u/AreaAccomplished2896 said it best, I will be try to be short. The knowledge, skills, and ability to manufacture these parts all went overseas 35 years ago. It takes years to build everything you need in the United States to begin to manufacture these parts again. On top of the years it would take, it would also be incredibly expensive. Even 60% tariffs will not be enough to drive manufacturing back to the United States.
Let's take a look at one of the biggest bungled projects to bring manufacturing back to the US in recent history: Trump's Foxconn disaster in Wisconsin. Read all about it. It was supposed to be a multi-billion dollar manufacturing complex for electronics. In 7 years all they've managed to accomplish is build 3 smaller buildings and make some network components. Then Microsoft seems to have bought some of it out? I don't know why the people of Wisconsin supported a company with "fox" and "con" in its name, but alas.
Bringing back manufacturing is a decades-long process that requires things go right at every step. Throwing a 60% tariff on products out of the gate is just going to hurt Americans and will never accomplish that goal.
AreaAccomplished2896@reddit
Manufacturing parts requires the tools to make the parts and the knowledge to use them. The people with the necessary knowledge go to where the jobs are, and the both the jobs and the tools were sent overseas when cheap labor became available overseas.
Furthermore, industrial scale production requires specialized assembly lines to produce sufficient quantities of parts. That specialization requires skill and substantial investment to set up. For example, a modern graphics card requires a specialized mirror to focus lasers onto the graphics card, which must further be controlled with machine precision. Almost no one in the United States knows how to set those machines up, much less how to make the mirror and other parts of the assembly line.
Even for generalist tools like CNC machines which could slowly produce a variety of parts one at a time, programming skill, machining experience and a supply of coolant and oil lubricant is needed to operate them.
The USA exported entire supply chains overseas when corporations and capitalists decided that it was profitable to do so. Few of my fellow American citizens know how to build or work on advanced technology, as limiting that knowledge makes planned obsolescence easier for corporations and prevents competition from arising at the local level. Now Trump's tariffs will separate us from our own supply lines and their associated wealth, if he follows through on his tariff policies.
It is not just the assembly lines that we moved overseas, we sent the knowledge overseas at least two generations ago, and most of the people who remember how to build assembly lines have succumbed to old age by now. The monopolies that cage the American people are made of more than rusted steel and social media. Soon we may lose everything else to the rich, who also don't understand how any of it works.
ChrisF1987@reddit
Many electrical transformers used in the US are made in Germany, China, and South Korea ... it's a huge problem.
Gingerbread-Cake@reddit
That’s no longer true, about the monitoring. The armor is a little tricky because of heat retention issues, but it’s all monitored now.
That said, the lead time on new big transformers is currently measured in years, so the potential for catastrophe is high.
icedoutclockwatch@reddit
I can’t imagine they can monitor every power and sub station. It’s not that challenging to hit something the size of a mini fridge from 100m+
potato_reborn@reddit
I do water testing, and there's tons of rural water treatment and drinking water infrastructure that has no one in sight, and no cameras that I've seen. I just walk right up to it. Maybe a 6foot rusted out fence around it at most.
Taqueria_Style@reddit
I'm going to say I'm shocked if they don't have drones with thermal imaging circling that shit 24-7. At least for large ones.
potato_reborn@reddit
Yeah, that budget doesn't exist in rural areas. Most rural infrastructure is super vulnerable. We mostly rely on people not being dicks.
lavapig_love@reddit
I wonder how long before rural volunteers start doing guard duty for that important infrastructure.
Mr_LoudPuppers@reddit (OP)
Germany is another supplier of a lot of the components we get. That's mainly because of the giant supranational corporation based there that has its hands in every pie. Totally doesn't rhyme with meemans and was at one point a supplier for the Nazi party.
So far German and Danish parts have been more or less available when ordered (but we do HVAC and we don't handle big transformers.) I don't know what'll happen if Putin keeps pushing into Europe.
Taqueria_Style@reddit
Totally doesn't rhyme with meemans
Oh come now.
cycle_addict_@reddit
But he promised to make everything better!
Fucking morons that voted for him are just as scared as I am, but for completely idiotic reasons.
Fear social collapse, fear bread basket failure, fear heat domes, fear hurricanes, fear the collapse of healthcare, the collapse of supply chains.
And yet it's mostly " illegal immigrants are criminals"
This will be interesting to say the least.
Kitteh311@reddit
Immigrants will be least of these idiots problems when they can’t afford a $15 loaf of bread after the food shortages start due to global warming..
Narrow-Emotion4218@reddit
I will listen to a few minutes of right-wing propaganda in my car to see what is being said. Even today, Hannity had someone on over-emoting about thousands of illegal murderers walking the streets, thousands of illegal rapists walking the streets, and on and on. The messaging continues and feels pervasive.
SpongederpSquarefap@reddit
Well at least we have schadenfreude as they get what they voted for
SousVideDiaper@reddit
Yeah but they still won't fucking learn from it and blame democrats
bfjd4u@reddit
The Trump Business Model:
Destroy Other Businesses.
Taqueria_Style@reddit
I rather suspect that's the Musk business model.
bfjd4u@reddit
They're the same fascist.
Taqueria_Style@reddit
No, one's the daddy and the other's the useful idiot.
I get that their IQ's are only off by a couple of points but you know what I mean.
bfjd4u@reddit
I do.
Designer_Chance_4896@reddit
He really managed to convince a lot of voters that it would be China that paid money to US.
I mean, I would have voted for that too. Imagine being paid to import goods.
Taqueria_Style@reddit
You're surprised? People do Pay Day Loans, man. Like 45% interest compounded monthly and shit.
Praxistor@reddit
i think a speedrun to total collapse is coming. if Harris had won, i think it would have been a slowrun instead, with moments of policy optimism. but either way, total collapse is inevitable.
i think the best thing an individual can do about it is go through the stages of grief and emerge from that with equanimity and forgiveness of all
Taqueria_Style@reddit
Oh I ain't forgiving this.
Resign to it yeah.
edwigenightcups@reddit
Even though I get that your intentions are well-meaning, I wouldn't expect marginalized groups with everything to lose to "emerge with equanimity and forgiveness". The best time to become radicalized was last week, the second-best time is right now.
Praxistor@reddit
I don’t think that would help. There’s a lag effect - things are going to keep heating up even if every human stopped all emissions today and started planting trees 24/7
And there’s no way a revolution would make every human do that. Our only options are spiritual and individualistic
edwigenightcups@reddit
Community will be everything for women, immigrants, people with disabilities, LGBTQ+ groups, minorities, etc. These are the people with the most rights on the nearest chopping block, and the people we need to be fighting for as a caring society.
You seem to think thoughts and prayers are all that are needed, and I argue if we don't listen, observe, and take action, it's going to be a rapid decent into hell for a lot of American citizens
Praxistor@reddit
Sure, but radicalizing and fighting doesn’t sound like the way to do that. Being there for them on a human level as compassionate individuals sounds like a better bet than throwing your life away in a gun fight on the street
edwigenightcups@reddit
I said "listen, observe, and take action" and never said anything about "gun fight on the street". I don't believe this is a good-faith conversation so ciao, baby. Good luck out there.
Praxistor@reddit
You said radicalized.
Don’t toss that word around casually my friend.
naughtyrev@reddit
Don't worry, though, because once you lose your job and start draining your retirement accounts, you'll eventually have to sell your house and fortunately, private equity will be there to buy it up to rent back to you forever. The end of ownership society draws ever nearer.
SmallClassroom9042@reddit
This was happening before trump
Longjumping-Path3811@reddit
Very helpful.
votewithyourass@reddit
Ok do you not know the word accelerate?
Zealousideal_Dust_25@reddit
Its everything
I work in the paint industry, yes alot of it is manufactured in the US but a good chunk of the materials came from china.
The prices from the 2016 Tariffs never came back down.
8 years later these same painters come in after voting for more tariffs, these same people will complain when we are running low on stock or raising prices to compensate.
nickum@reddit
Trump will fix it with infrastructure week. Don't doom.
Ghostwoods@reddit
A lot of people just don't realise that this is true not only for aircon, but for every segment of every industry. Even trades that are entirely domestic rely on equipment sourced from around the world.
The only way to cut yourself out of the global economy is to do a North Korea.
krichuvisz@reddit
Even they rely on chinese imports.
Ghostwoods@reddit
LOL! Quite.
unbreakablekango@reddit
And don't forget that nearly everything that is shipped comes in a big metal box that stacks onto shipping container ships. Most of those boxes are made in China, are we going to put a tariff on them too?
211yrs@reddit
As an Afro-Latinx trans woman living in Texas, with the constant threat of deportation hanging over me, it’s more critical than ever for us progressive women to stand together and break ties with anyone—whether friends, family, or acquaintances—who supported Trump. The harm caused by his toxic, white-supremacist rhetoric is undeniable, and we can no longer afford to pretend like it doesn’t have consequences. The line has been crossed, and the time for tolerance is over. We need to cut these people out of our lives completely.
If they commit a crime, report them. If they’re violating rental agreements, expose them. If they spread hate or misinformation, let their employers know. If they aren’t paying taxes, call the IRS. Their privilege has allowed them to get away with too much for too long, and it’s time we hold them accountable. They thought we were just complaining or joking before, but now we’re showing up to demand real change. Together, we have the power to reshape this country—not with silence, but with action. Let’s make it clear that we won’t tolerate any more hate or complacency from those who’ve enabled it.
aznoone@reddit
But all we need is Musk and his satellites. The best oligarch ever.
Comfortable-Eye-8391@reddit
Don't forget nearly 100,000 dams in America are nearing the end of their life, already non-functional or in serious need of repair. The dams currently in operation are causing an incredible amount of environmental damage. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if the cheeto king administration supports more hydropower, not necessarily to offset carbon but just to flip off nature more than wr already have.
We actually convinced ourselves we could do what Norway does - and in a way we have. We lean on renewables while also producing enormous amounts of fossil fuels, some of which we now export.
The difference is Norway exports almost all of their fossil fuels. The vast majority of their country is uniquely suited for hydropower. They are moving ever closer to renewables and EVs, all while getting rich as can be off their world-destroying fossil fuels. Must be nice.
sophimoo@reddit
there aren't even 100k dams what 😭
Gingerbread-Cake@reddit
They said “nearly”. The number is 91,000 actually, but that’s close enough, I think. It’s not like those 9,000 are going to make that much difference.
YoSoyZarkMuckerberg@reddit
It's worse than that, because majority are owned by private entities.
According to the Army Corps of Engineers, the US has 91,804 dams across all 50 states, Puerto Rico, and Guam. Approximately 65% of all dams are privately owned, while federal, state, and local government agencies own 31%.
https://usafacts.org/articles/how-many-dams-does-america-have/
Alarming_Award5575@reddit
This is helpful. Thank you.