KFFZ

Posted by Queasy-Mycologist-20@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 28 comments

So, this is regarding the incident at Falcon Field in Mesa, AZ. A Honda jet aborted takeoff and but was unable to slow down in time who then proceeded to go off the runway through the fencing and into traffic striking another vehicle. KFFZ is where I acquired my PPL but having been back to AZ since then was just seeing if anyone here trains there or has more information about the incident. I’ve read all the reports and articles regarding the situation but I’m devastated I could not imagine holding short 22L for then to witness such a tragic accident. Any insight would be great.

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28 Comments

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Anphsn@reddit

The insight is don’t abort above V1

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Curious-Wasabi-7191@reddit

There are reason why you would abort above v1 but I don’t think anything has came out about why they aborted

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KCPilot17@reddit

There is no reason to abort above V1. Unless both engines fail and the airplane is making that decision for you.

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Traditional_Tip6294@reddit

The airplane doesn’t make decisions… there are a few reasons to reject after V1

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KCPilot17@reddit

Would love to hear them then.

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pattern_altitude@reddit

I believe a Gulfstream rejected after V1 for a control lock that was still in place. It didn't end well -- all on board were killed -- but the airplane wasn't going to fly or at the very least was not going to be controllable.

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LowTBigD@reddit

That one is a lot more complicated.

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pattern_altitude@reddit

The cause for the rejection or the decision to reject? I'm just saying that there *are* reasons to reject after V1.

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LowTBigD@reddit

No I’m talking about that particular case. They would have actually been able to stop on the runway but they did a ton of things wrong. They never applied full power. So they used up a bunch of runway just getting to v1. V1 ended up being way farther down the runway than it should have been. They took forever going to power idle, they took forever putting the reversers out, they took forever going to max braking. Had they actually rejected appropriately they would all still be alive and stopped on the pavement. Watch this from the NTSB https://youtu.be/dKgJqe7Ml9c?si=GUNkdQ41f1o6HsoK

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Av8torryan@reddit

[prime example of aborting after V1](https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/AAR1901.pdf)

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LowTBigD@reddit

I mean, they didn’t really have a choice. That’s the point. If you have the choice you continue. If the airplane won’t fly then you don’t really get to pick the “continue” option.

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nascent_aviator@reddit

They did have a choice: abort or continue. The fact that one would probably have killed everyone onboard doesn't make it not a choice- it just makes it a bad choice.

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LowTBigD@reddit

They literally couldn’t continue. That’s the point. They tried, and nothing happened. How would they have been able to continue?

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KITTYONFYRE@reddit

they would continue by not aborting. ten seconds later they would die, yes, but they could choose to not cut the throttles, apply brakes, etc and that would be not aborting.

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LowTBigD@reddit

That’s not a decision though. This is very black and white. When the airplane won’t fly, you don’t go fly. That’s not a decision you get to make. It’s it that complicated. After V1 you go unless you can’t. That’s it.

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ce402@reddit

By not aborting and running off the end of the runway even faster. It’s semantics, really. The fact is, you abort after V1 you’re making the decision that you’re crashing. It’s now a matter of minimizing the energy you’re carrying into the crash.

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Curious-Wasabi-7191@reddit

If there’s a condition that the plane won’t let you fly. If controls get locked lose both engines are a couple reasons

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LowTBigD@reddit

If the airplane won’t let you fly you aren’t really making a decision anymore. It’s been made for you.

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0621Hertz@reddit

There is one official FAA answer to that question; “If unable to maintain flight after takeoff.” Which most likely means a flight control issue very obscure scenario but if Air France 4590 rejected the takeoff it would have had much less casualties.

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PDXflight@reddit

We brief “if, for any reason, we don’t think the airplane will fly”

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nascent_aviator@reddit

A flight control malfunction is an excellent reason to abort above V1. [https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/104129/pdf](https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/104129/pdf)

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LowTBigD@reddit

Everyone that knows is dead. The airplane has been burned to the ground. These things take time. What do you really expect?

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AWACS_Bandog@reddit

No word yet through the grapevine on what happened.

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Wandrews123@reddit

I did a little training out there this summer. There was one time I saw some smoke during preflight that caught my attention, but it turned out to be nothing. Can’t imagine if I’d been there that day…

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Pseudo-Jonathan@reddit

There's nothing else to know at this point. They rejected the takeoff at a very high speed for unknown reasons and then ended up in the street still doing 50+ knots and colliding with the vehicle. We likely won't know anything substantial for quite a while.

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Swimming_Way_7372@reddit

This one is a head scratcher and I think any speculation at this point would be a waste of time. This one doesn't have any glaring issues like other incidents sometimes have that can give a good idea into what happened. I think its best just to wait the year+ to find out more reliable info instead of listening to the speculations.

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gregariouspilot@reddit

Blancolirio is about the latest news: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DjF_XhMD5nQ&pp=ygULYmxhbmNvbGlyaW8%3D

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rFlyingTower@reddit

This is a copy of the original post body for posterity: --- So, this is regarding the incident at Falcon Field in Mesa, AZ. A Honda jet aborted takeoff and but was unable to slow down in time who then proceeded to go off the runway through the fencing and into traffic striking another vehicle. KFFZ is where I acquired my PPL but having been back to AZ since then was just seeing if anyone here trains there or has more information about the incident. I’ve read all the reports and articles regarding the situation but I’m devastated I could not imagine holding short 22L for then to witness such a tragic accident. Any insight would be great. --- Please downvote this comment until it collapses. --- I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. If you have any questions, please [contact the mods of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/flying).