For the first sentence, that kinda feels really weird because Chrysler is very much American and the DS used to be specifically De Gaulle's car. It's like a Lada as FDR's presidential car. I think Chrysler should do it's own thing; Maybe dodge/Jeep's premium brand
Giulia has potential, Grand Cherokee desperately needs the 3.0L. 4xe is shit. Dodge needs to get in the fight and Chrysler needs to either die or get on board
I adore my little red Giulia, and it saddens me that corporate doesn't give Alfa any funds to work with. The brand had so much potential with the right vision and investments into quality control, marketing, dealership experience, etc.
I hope they get antoher chance in the US though I'd bet against it. Doesn't seem Maserati is doing the job as their flagship marque given by poor sales on all its new models. Alfa has better potential as a volume luxury marque!
I know all the enthusiasts have a softspot for alfa but I maintain it was a mistake to bring them stateside. They just don't seem to fit anywhere in the Brand lineup and the company has way too many US brands. Could have brought the cars and branded them as a reinvented Chrysler brand and used the existing dealerships rather than reducing Chrysler to a single Minivan.
Of course this abundance of brands problem goes for splitting RAM from Dodge too. There was no practical benefit to doing so since consumers still call them the Dodge Ram.
Stellantis has a ton of cash to burn and even though sales are down they're still one of the most profitable auto corporations. This gives them a long run way to potentially turn things around. But its certainly no guarantee that will happen.
Its been pretty wild. Ram was actually producing very high quality half-ton trucks, this doesn't get acknowledge here much but the DT generation has a good track record for reliability (this isn't a claim out my ass... all the reliability trackers showed this)... with the now gone Hemi. Its a total up in the air moment to see if the 3.0L can maintain that. And the brand really leaned heavily on its image which was strongly tied to the V8.
They let their HD trucks go without crucial updates for too long. The Cummins configuration needed a new transmission a long time ago. They let the HD trucks linger, and still are, with the old cab for way too long. And the 2025 design refresh frankly looks terrible (which is a shame because I thought it was probably the best looking HD truck out there).
Jeep in their strong models, the Wrangler and Grand Cherokee, are actually not bad with the old school configuration, 3.6L + 8-speed, but SO many of those have been 4XE's which have been plagued with issues. Specifically those 4XE's attracted a lot of new to the brand buyers and now have really, really hurt the reputation (not saying it was amazing, but it went worse) with those buyers. People talk about Jeep reliability but frankly the Pentastar 3.6L + ZF 8-speed was a plenty reliable core, it was really the "small" stuff that Jeep struggled with (not to dismiss it... but consumers can tolerate things like corroding door hinges for a long time... but a powertrain that leaves them stranded and without a working vehicle they will not)... but something like 40% of Wranglers are 4XE's and those have a nightmare like problem rate.
Dodge is in complete no mans land now that the V8s are gone as well.
Now... all their budget stuff is a disaster. Avoid avoid avoid.
They really seemed to have put their chips on the wrong number in most cases and fumbled the opportunities they did have.
They offered products others didn't. Now they're losing a lot of those products and they haven't updated the others in a sensible fashion. Its hard to see this not taking at least a full generation to get corrected. They have the money to get to that point. But do they have the leadership? I'm not so sure.
The 4xE is a great idea and I love mine, pity Stellantis apparently picked bad suppliers for the inverter, electric coolant heater and battery. Honestly profitable niche vehicles like a PHEV Wrangler are what they should be doing - things that sell well enough into little market segments that are still big enough to turn a profit. Kinda like what AMC used to do.
Up until the recent battery recall for basically all 4xEs, mine has been working perfectly at least. I'd replace it with a Bronco or 4Runner PHEV due to that recall, but they don't make those - hopefully the Scout lives up to the hype.
I really dug the 4xe concept but I waited to see what the bug reports would be like on the forums and the failures scared me off. The 392 is a lil’ too egregious of a gas sucking pig, even for me, but it seems like the rational choice in comparison to avoid those electrical shenanigans.
I can't figure how reliable (or not) the 4xE really is, given the negative bias of forums - seems like there are a few known issues that have been fixed with newer versions of parts, then the current battery recall. But also lots of people with random problems...
My personal experience is some coolant heater issues that were fixed over a year ago with a new version of that part and no problems since. But I currently have mine parked outside uncharged due to the battery recall, ugh.
Yeah, I know forums aggregate the unhappy but the nature of the failures was one of the things that bugged me. This was long before the latest recall, too. I've had a few issues with the Cayenne that surprised me, too, so my willingness to roll the dice is a little low right now. It's cliche but I'd probably wait for the second generation (assuming they learn something from this gen). Then the 392 sits there sayin', "C'mon, dude, you know V8s aren't gonna be here long and there's no hybrid system to worry about."
I am enjoying my Grand Cherokee 4Xe, it is of course not as refined nor sport as the X5 I had prior. But, it is basically the exact same size, has more power than the 40i, I can commute entirely on electric, and. I have more creature comforts than my X5 did for less money.
That said, I learned Jeep dealership service SUCKS and I went independent to have a flash update to fix an airbag warning. Dealer said 4-8 weeks and the indy mechanic flashed it in a few hours. Solid since then. The hybrid ZF8 isn’t as smooth as I’d expect but I’ve gotten used to it.
Sounds about right to me, though my particular dealer has been good. The hybrid ZF8 has no torque converter if you didn't know - since the motor is there instead, it uses a clutch in the trans for launches, so it has the same low-speed jankiness as a dual-clutch. There's just no way the powertrain can be as smooth as something like a Prius or full BEV - but neither of those have lockers and 4lo, nor share tons of parts with their gas counterparts.
Power, yeah, both 4xEs are significantly faster than people expect, I'd describe the Wrangler as having a silly 0-60 for what it is.
They have cash because they weren't investing and now instead of spending that cash to improve modernized ICEs and hybrids, they'll be spending it on incentives and catch-up.
GM invested something like a billion dollars into its V8 family while Stallantis was busy coming up with new sticker packages.
I'm setting the over/under on Stellantis selling Jeep and Ram to competitors at 2027. Want in?
They've clearly made investments in ICE powertrains. That's why the 3.0L is replacing the Hemi. And the 2.0L is replacing the Pentastar. Sure they lack hybrids but that's because they thought strategically they'd be skipping to EVs, which they invested heavily in also.
There's plenty of problems at Stellantis but I think you're missing the mark with those criticisms, at least how you're framing it. GM also missed on hybrids, for instance.
I mean no, they didn’t skip hybrids. They’ve had plug in hybrids since 2018. They’re late to pure EVs and are using a platform that can be ICE or BEV. This hasn’t worked that well for say BMW, but the Chinese have had good PHEVs. Toyota is a different story, they’ve been doing the original Prius style system for 25+ years.
The shared platform has worked plenty well for BMW, plug ins make up over 20% of their vehicles sold now, and they're on shared platforms with much lower upfront investment and risk than Mercedes. As more are sold they have an EV only lineup ready to go that should naturally meet demand as it grows
Yes... plug in only. I'd argue that's been a problem. And their most successful PHEVs have been by far their most problematic models from a reliability standpoint.
Chrysler had a consortium with GM to develop hybrids back in the late 2000s. They had a hybrid Durango (sold as Chrysler Aspen) but it was expensive and low volume. They kind of ran out of money at that point to continue.
A lot of hybrids failed to sell and OEMs backed off development. Nissan had a hybrid Altima and Pathfinder that nobody remembers for example.
If I had a nickel for every time a Carlos with French ties was the catalyst for the decline an automotive manufacturer, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot but it's weird it happened twice.
Now... all their budget stuff is a disaster. Avoid avoid avoid.
Which ones? Citroen and Peugeot have good cars, problem is that 1.2L engine with timing belt in oil (some configurations have chain and should be fine), EVs are a bit on a weak side with only 100kw motors.
I'm talking about the models offered in the US. Obviously Stellantis is a global company but yeah... Since I was talking Ram, Jeep and Dodge I thought it was clear.
Stellantis has completely undermined customer trust. Decades of poor engineering and terrible software design have caught up to them.
The EV transition will require exceptional, new engineering and excellent software development. How is a customer going to trust the brand, when the vehicle the customer is moving from just had its 62TE fail for the second time in the American market, and was running UConnect for its infotainment unit internationally?
Who would honestly even look at the Hornet, with those things in mind?
Toms of good points people are making. So to add my own and probably not all that original. I think we are hitting critical
Mass on wranglers, especially with new models that closely match them in appearance and ability (arguably).
Also and most importantly IMO, dodge and jeep have always been the affordable mainstream American brands, but now they are as overpriced as every other company, hard stare at both labor unions and money grabs by company. The thing about wranglers in particular was that anybody could get one and if you could afford to or wanted to spend or 10k+ on up fitting it, so be it Now they cost as much as a Luxury car from a couple years ago.
I don't know if they can be saved, but I wish they'd hurry up and drop the Hurricane in the Grand Cherokee. That 8 speed auto is a fantastic unit, and now it needs an engine with some oomf.
They've been doing the V configuration for so long, that it's possible the change in tooling/production/R&D might be significantly more expensive to worth the squeeze.
I was just speculating as to why, and my word means nothing lol. You're right. No reason a 3 series BMW can fit an I6 and this can't. I bet they are teasing thearket until they suddenly drop it to sell like hot cakes.
It would be a competitor to the CX-90 I imagine since both have I6s. The CX-90 is apparently plagued with recalls, so Jeep has a chance at taking sales from them.
This is not true. The Hurricane was specifically designed to be relatively short for an I6. It fits in the GC. They're just not fully ramped on production yet. It'll happen sooner than later though.
I've done testing for them as a third party they are a deeply dysfunctional company from a development standpoint. from everything I've seen they don't have any hard testing standards like the other companies I've done work at and for. Their design release standards seem to be a suggestion more than rule. They also have this bad habit of firing or force retiring their senior engineers if they get too expensive. So there is no experienced midlevel institutional knowledge to dampen senior management's dumber impulses', and that's what I've seen on the development side. I can't imagine what a shit show it is at the plants and supplier management sides.
Similar boat. I’m not interested in vehicles without at least a large NA v8 with exception of the m3. My family has spent a ton on FCA products between my household and my parents’. I’m ready to grab a heavily discounted HC challenger and Durango once I can get 25k off. Getting close.
They’ve alienated their cash cows. Give us V8s, put the govt fines as line items on the cars. If I recall correctly per stock disclosures, fines were only around $1k per 6.2L produced. Hell, I’d pay $20k as a line item.
The 1500 was know for one thing, and one thing alone; The Hemi. Why go away from that when the Cyclone barely gets better MPG, and Ford and Chevy are still going hard on their V8's?
The 2500/3500 is for some ungodly reason using the ancient can design instead of the very good can design they have in the 1500. There is a reason Ford uses the exact same can in the Super duty that they do in the F-150; because it's good. The Ram 1500 cab is probably the best truck can in the market, and the back seat is absolutely the best in the market, why let the 2500/3500 toil away with the worst can on the market?
They can't, they basically committed suicide by discontinuing the V8 Charger and Challenger which were selling way more than their competition for years. Nobody is going to buy an EV Charger.
Can it? Sure. But will Stellantis do whatever it takes to win back the confidence of the consumer regarding the reliability of its vehicles while also offering competitively priced products that grows market share? Outlook not so good.
I think Peugeot is doing fine, they have 208, 2008 and 3008 that are popular, Citroen is entering under 25k€ EV market and they'll probably be fine but Opel is probably in danger
Yes and no. Jeep for instance has one of the most well off average buyers bases for a non-luxury brand, on average earning way above the average household income ($80K in the US, average 4-door Wrangler buyer comes from a $120K average income household). I really tire of this "no one can afford them but they're buying" talk here. Its just not true. It shows a lack of awareness about the facts of who the actual buyers of these vehicles are. The average new car buyer in the US is 53 years old. That's also the most well off age demographic in the US.
The reality is the new vehicle buyer who is struggling the most financially is also buying from the lowest end of the market. Though in general people buying new cars are significant better off than the average car driver. The majority of vehicle sales each year are used, 3x as much as new.
Wow, I never realised how many of my favourite car brands are all under Stellantis. I hope they turn it around cus the world would be a much sadder place without Abarths, Alfa Romeos, and Maseratis
Probably not, they have to bring back the HEMI V8 and restart the production of the charger/challenger. That or make some decent economy cars. The EV charger is DOA purely because of its price, and they don't have the money to develop a new economy car that is reliable. Their current CEO wants to go all in EVs even though sales are declining because they're too expensive, don't have enough range and poor charging infrastructure
While this is true, Nadella and Jobs don't just grow on trees. Those are two of the most successful CEOs of the last 50 years.
Stellantis strikes me as an NBA team that starts the season by losing ten games in a row. They've still got 72 games left to play, so there's still time to turn it around. Then again, they suck, or they wouldn't be 0-10. There's no reason to think that team is going to suddenly become good.
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Bassracerx@reddit
i would start by selling DS cars as rebadged Chryslers.
Next, Dodge needs some commodity vehicles, badge engineer the Peugeot 3008 & 5008 hybrids.
Lastly, the durango needs a new model badge engineer the grand cherokee L if you have to.
zlgo38@reddit
For the first sentence, that kinda feels really weird because Chrysler is very much American and the DS used to be specifically De Gaulle's car. It's like a Lada as FDR's presidential car. I think Chrysler should do it's own thing; Maybe dodge/Jeep's premium brand
Drzhivago138@reddit
Apparently the Durango will be replaced by the Stealth next year, but we've not seen hide nor hair of any test models.
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
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TurboSalsa@reddit
Stellantis is a massive tarball of struggling automakers all smushed together to make one giant struggling automaker.
Not surprising their problems didn’t go away through all the mergers.
a80040611@reddit
Giulia has potential, Grand Cherokee desperately needs the 3.0L. 4xe is shit. Dodge needs to get in the fight and Chrysler needs to either die or get on board
dsonger20@reddit
The guilia has potential if they actually marketed it.
I’ve never seen an ad and almost all of the people who drive corollas have no idea what Alfa Romeo is.
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Bradymyhero@reddit
I adore my little red Giulia, and it saddens me that corporate doesn't give Alfa any funds to work with. The brand had so much potential with the right vision and investments into quality control, marketing, dealership experience, etc.
I hope they get antoher chance in the US though I'd bet against it. Doesn't seem Maserati is doing the job as their flagship marque given by poor sales on all its new models. Alfa has better potential as a volume luxury marque!
N0Name117@reddit
I know all the enthusiasts have a softspot for alfa but I maintain it was a mistake to bring them stateside. They just don't seem to fit anywhere in the Brand lineup and the company has way too many US brands. Could have brought the cars and branded them as a reinvented Chrysler brand and used the existing dealerships rather than reducing Chrysler to a single Minivan.
Of course this abundance of brands problem goes for splitting RAM from Dodge too. There was no practical benefit to doing so since consumers still call them the Dodge Ram.
peakdecline@reddit
Stellantis has a ton of cash to burn and even though sales are down they're still one of the most profitable auto corporations. This gives them a long run way to potentially turn things around. But its certainly no guarantee that will happen.
Its been pretty wild. Ram was actually producing very high quality half-ton trucks, this doesn't get acknowledge here much but the DT generation has a good track record for reliability (this isn't a claim out my ass... all the reliability trackers showed this)... with the now gone Hemi. Its a total up in the air moment to see if the 3.0L can maintain that. And the brand really leaned heavily on its image which was strongly tied to the V8.
They let their HD trucks go without crucial updates for too long. The Cummins configuration needed a new transmission a long time ago. They let the HD trucks linger, and still are, with the old cab for way too long. And the 2025 design refresh frankly looks terrible (which is a shame because I thought it was probably the best looking HD truck out there).
Jeep in their strong models, the Wrangler and Grand Cherokee, are actually not bad with the old school configuration, 3.6L + 8-speed, but SO many of those have been 4XE's which have been plagued with issues. Specifically those 4XE's attracted a lot of new to the brand buyers and now have really, really hurt the reputation (not saying it was amazing, but it went worse) with those buyers. People talk about Jeep reliability but frankly the Pentastar 3.6L + ZF 8-speed was a plenty reliable core, it was really the "small" stuff that Jeep struggled with (not to dismiss it... but consumers can tolerate things like corroding door hinges for a long time... but a powertrain that leaves them stranded and without a working vehicle they will not)... but something like 40% of Wranglers are 4XE's and those have a nightmare like problem rate.
Dodge is in complete no mans land now that the V8s are gone as well.
Now... all their budget stuff is a disaster. Avoid avoid avoid.
They really seemed to have put their chips on the wrong number in most cases and fumbled the opportunities they did have.
They offered products others didn't. Now they're losing a lot of those products and they haven't updated the others in a sensible fashion. Its hard to see this not taking at least a full generation to get corrected. They have the money to get to that point. But do they have the leadership? I'm not so sure.
natesully33@reddit
The 4xE is a great idea and I love mine, pity Stellantis apparently picked bad suppliers for the inverter, electric coolant heater and battery. Honestly profitable niche vehicles like a PHEV Wrangler are what they should be doing - things that sell well enough into little market segments that are still big enough to turn a profit. Kinda like what AMC used to do.
Up until the recent battery recall for basically all 4xEs, mine has been working perfectly at least. I'd replace it with a Bronco or 4Runner PHEV due to that recall, but they don't make those - hopefully the Scout lives up to the hype.
_galaga_@reddit
I really dug the 4xe concept but I waited to see what the bug reports would be like on the forums and the failures scared me off. The 392 is a lil’ too egregious of a gas sucking pig, even for me, but it seems like the rational choice in comparison to avoid those electrical shenanigans.
natesully33@reddit
I can't figure how reliable (or not) the 4xE really is, given the negative bias of forums - seems like there are a few known issues that have been fixed with newer versions of parts, then the current battery recall. But also lots of people with random problems...
My personal experience is some coolant heater issues that were fixed over a year ago with a new version of that part and no problems since. But I currently have mine parked outside uncharged due to the battery recall, ugh.
_galaga_@reddit
Yeah, I know forums aggregate the unhappy but the nature of the failures was one of the things that bugged me. This was long before the latest recall, too. I've had a few issues with the Cayenne that surprised me, too, so my willingness to roll the dice is a little low right now. It's cliche but I'd probably wait for the second generation (assuming they learn something from this gen). Then the 392 sits there sayin', "C'mon, dude, you know V8s aren't gonna be here long and there's no hybrid system to worry about."
realtimmahh@reddit
I am enjoying my Grand Cherokee 4Xe, it is of course not as refined nor sport as the X5 I had prior. But, it is basically the exact same size, has more power than the 40i, I can commute entirely on electric, and. I have more creature comforts than my X5 did for less money.
That said, I learned Jeep dealership service SUCKS and I went independent to have a flash update to fix an airbag warning. Dealer said 4-8 weeks and the indy mechanic flashed it in a few hours. Solid since then. The hybrid ZF8 isn’t as smooth as I’d expect but I’ve gotten used to it.
natesully33@reddit
Sounds about right to me, though my particular dealer has been good. The hybrid ZF8 has no torque converter if you didn't know - since the motor is there instead, it uses a clutch in the trans for launches, so it has the same low-speed jankiness as a dual-clutch. There's just no way the powertrain can be as smooth as something like a Prius or full BEV - but neither of those have lockers and 4lo, nor share tons of parts with their gas counterparts.
Power, yeah, both 4xEs are significantly faster than people expect, I'd describe the Wrangler as having a silly 0-60 for what it is.
SSLByron@reddit
They have cash because they weren't investing and now instead of spending that cash to improve modernized ICEs and hybrids, they'll be spending it on incentives and catch-up.
GM invested something like a billion dollars into its V8 family while Stallantis was busy coming up with new sticker packages.
I'm setting the over/under on Stellantis selling Jeep and Ram to competitors at 2027. Want in?
peakdecline@reddit
They've clearly made investments in ICE powertrains. That's why the 3.0L is replacing the Hemi. And the 2.0L is replacing the Pentastar. Sure they lack hybrids but that's because they thought strategically they'd be skipping to EVs, which they invested heavily in also.
There's plenty of problems at Stellantis but I think you're missing the mark with those criticisms, at least how you're framing it. GM also missed on hybrids, for instance.
1988rx7T2@reddit
I mean no, they didn’t skip hybrids. They’ve had plug in hybrids since 2018. They’re late to pure EVs and are using a platform that can be ICE or BEV. This hasn’t worked that well for say BMW, but the Chinese have had good PHEVs. Toyota is a different story, they’ve been doing the original Prius style system for 25+ years.
Clover-kun@reddit
The shared platform has worked plenty well for BMW, plug ins make up over 20% of their vehicles sold now, and they're on shared platforms with much lower upfront investment and risk than Mercedes. As more are sold they have an EV only lineup ready to go that should naturally meet demand as it grows
peakdecline@reddit
Yes... plug in only. I'd argue that's been a problem. And their most successful PHEVs have been by far their most problematic models from a reliability standpoint.
1988rx7T2@reddit
Chrysler had a consortium with GM to develop hybrids back in the late 2000s. They had a hybrid Durango (sold as Chrysler Aspen) but it was expensive and low volume. They kind of ran out of money at that point to continue.
A lot of hybrids failed to sell and OEMs backed off development. Nissan had a hybrid Altima and Pathfinder that nobody remembers for example.
Agree-With-Above@reddit
Mike Manley was a step down from the great Sergio Marchionne. But Carlos Tavares is a HUGE step down from Mike.
The moment he announced getting the French plant managers here to "fix" us truck plant problems just shows his bias and ignorance
BayLAGOON@reddit
If I had a nickel for every time a Carlos with French ties was the catalyst for the decline an automotive manufacturer, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot but it's weird it happened twice.
IlIlIlIlIIIllll@reddit
And they're friends! Ghosn and Tavares are long-time business partners, look up Tavares' previous roles at Renault-Nissan as Ghosns number two
SnootDoctor@reddit
That's so gross. Guess he just barely missed the corruption scandal, huh?
SeljD_SLO@reddit
Which ones? Citroen and Peugeot have good cars, problem is that 1.2L engine with timing belt in oil (some configurations have chain and should be fine), EVs are a bit on a weak side with only 100kw motors.
peakdecline@reddit
I'm talking about the models offered in the US. Obviously Stellantis is a global company but yeah... Since I was talking Ram, Jeep and Dodge I thought it was clear.
IlIlIlIlIIIllll@reddit
Even all the budget stuff had good specs if I'm understanding your sentiment correctly
psaux_grep@reddit
Stellantis is a lot more than just the US market.
I believe, in fact, they’re the worlds largest manufacturer of - shitty cars.
Responsible_Big_1349@reddit
Can't seem to find any leftover new ones around here and they want $48000 for a 22 Daytona with 5000k. (Canadian)
Imaginary-Salad-4535@reddit
I'm still waiting for grand cherokee to get the hurricane.
That thing is a dog with current powerplants
thewheelsgoround@reddit
Stellantis has completely undermined customer trust. Decades of poor engineering and terrible software design have caught up to them.
The EV transition will require exceptional, new engineering and excellent software development. How is a customer going to trust the brand, when the vehicle the customer is moving from just had its 62TE fail for the second time in the American market, and was running UConnect for its infotainment unit internationally?
Who would honestly even look at the Hornet, with those things in mind?
Latios19@reddit
Always said, as long as you have warranty go for it. The cars are nice, well equipped and looking hot. Price point is not there, for sure over priced.
Dealership service sucks bad. So they need to work on that too.
I really hope they get their stuff right because sucks to see such nice brands down falling like this
Wonderful-Ring7697@reddit
Toms of good points people are making. So to add my own and probably not all that original. I think we are hitting critical Mass on wranglers, especially with new models that closely match them in appearance and ability (arguably).
Also and most importantly IMO, dodge and jeep have always been the affordable mainstream American brands, but now they are as overpriced as every other company, hard stare at both labor unions and money grabs by company. The thing about wranglers in particular was that anybody could get one and if you could afford to or wanted to spend or 10k+ on up fitting it, so be it Now they cost as much as a Luxury car from a couple years ago.
learner888@reddit
only if us somehow forces them to spin off Jeep&american divisions as a separate company.
Otherwise they gonna continue to milk usa/chrysler to fund french/psa. It just makes economic sense for them.
Unlucky_Reception_30@reddit
I don't know if they can be saved, but I wish they'd hurry up and drop the Hurricane in the Grand Cherokee. That 8 speed auto is a fantastic unit, and now it needs an engine with some oomf.
TheBolognaPony@reddit
The Hurricane doesn't fit in the Grand Cherokee. Genius move on Stellantis part....
Unlucky_Reception_30@reddit
Why wouldn't it? They literally just had the Hemi in there
Dumpster_Fetus@reddit
6 vs 4 cylinders long. Maybe transverse isn't an option either due to steering/suspension components.
burner94_@reddit
Can't do transverse without changing the gearbox as well, not just suspension. Also, transfer cases and differentials...
Dumpster_Fetus@reddit
They've been doing the V configuration for so long, that it's possible the change in tooling/production/R&D might be significantly more expensive to worth the squeeze.
Unlucky_Reception_30@reddit
This sounds like bullshit, there's a crazy amount of room in my '23 Grand Cherokee, I think this is just a rumor to badmouth Mopar.
Dumpster_Fetus@reddit
I was just speculating as to why, and my word means nothing lol. You're right. No reason a 3 series BMW can fit an I6 and this can't. I bet they are teasing thearket until they suddenly drop it to sell like hot cakes.
It would be a competitor to the CX-90 I imagine since both have I6s. The CX-90 is apparently plagued with recalls, so Jeep has a chance at taking sales from them.
peakdecline@reddit
This is not true. The Hurricane was specifically designed to be relatively short for an I6. It fits in the GC. They're just not fully ramped on production yet. It'll happen sooner than later though.
Frosty_City6498@reddit
I don’t think anyone buying a Cherokee gives a rats ass about the engine
Unlucky_Reception_30@reddit
A Cherokee sure, but I want the Grand Cherokee, and it'd be dope with 400hp.
peakdecline@reddit
From what I've heard reported the ramp up of production of the Hurricane took longer than expected.
Raptor285@reddit
I've done testing for them as a third party they are a deeply dysfunctional company from a development standpoint. from everything I've seen they don't have any hard testing standards like the other companies I've done work at and for. Their design release standards seem to be a suggestion more than rule. They also have this bad habit of firing or force retiring their senior engineers if they get too expensive. So there is no experienced midlevel institutional knowledge to dampen senior management's dumber impulses', and that's what I've seen on the development side. I can't imagine what a shit show it is at the plants and supplier management sides.
Drivyn@reddit
I can't speak to all aspects but at least for vehicle dynamics, durability, etc. they have a BeStandard (test standard) for practically everything.
I can imagine it, though, as some departments of the company seem to be like a rudderless ship, for the reasons you put.
probsdriving@reddit (OP)
I've heard a ton of these stories over the years. They seem deeply, deeply misrun.
Responsible_Big_1349@reddit
I have 4 Dodges now. I would be very suprised if they had anything new that I'd be interested in.
fatitalianstallion@reddit
Similar boat. I’m not interested in vehicles without at least a large NA v8 with exception of the m3. My family has spent a ton on FCA products between my household and my parents’. I’m ready to grab a heavily discounted HC challenger and Durango once I can get 25k off. Getting close.
They’ve alienated their cash cows. Give us V8s, put the govt fines as line items on the cars. If I recall correctly per stock disclosures, fines were only around $1k per 6.2L produced. Hell, I’d pay $20k as a line item.
Responsible_Big_1349@reddit
Interesting. Although I've yet to see sny discounts in my area.
fatitalianstallion@reddit
My charger (new) was 15k off in September. Had to drive 10 hours round trip for it, but deals are there.
obsesivegamer@reddit
Ram and Jeep are very strong Brands .. Look ultimately worst case they get spun off or sold.
They have a lot of iconic designs that can be turned around with the right investment
Krankjanker@reddit
Their decision making with Ram is truly bizarre.
The 1500 was know for one thing, and one thing alone; The Hemi. Why go away from that when the Cyclone barely gets better MPG, and Ford and Chevy are still going hard on their V8's?
The 2500/3500 is for some ungodly reason using the ancient can design instead of the very good can design they have in the 1500. There is a reason Ford uses the exact same can in the Super duty that they do in the F-150; because it's good. The Ram 1500 cab is probably the best truck can in the market, and the back seat is absolutely the best in the market, why let the 2500/3500 toil away with the worst can on the market?
hundredjono@reddit
They can't, they basically committed suicide by discontinuing the V8 Charger and Challenger which were selling way more than their competition for years. Nobody is going to buy an EV Charger.
CurbsEnthusiasm@reddit
Chryslers entire history seems to be about merging to buy itself more time, only to do it again almost a decade later.
DookieMcDookface@reddit
Can it? Sure. But will Stellantis do whatever it takes to win back the confidence of the consumer regarding the reliability of its vehicles while also offering competitively priced products that grows market share? Outlook not so good.
HODL_or_D1E@reddit
Make an affordable high range EV
fallharvest9000@reddit
Yes, they need to abandon the phev crap and lower msrp
bhauertso@reddit
I kinda hope not. They're terrible.
CatashiMirozuka@reddit
Maybe split up the European and American brands again. I don't want to see brands like Opel and Peugeot going down on this sinking ship.
SeljD_SLO@reddit
I think Peugeot is doing fine, they have 208, 2008 and 3008 that are popular, Citroen is entering under 25k€ EV market and they'll probably be fine but Opel is probably in danger
1988rx7T2@reddit
Most of the profits for the entire global company come from selling Ram and Jeep products to Americans who can barely afford them
peakdecline@reddit
Yes and no. Jeep for instance has one of the most well off average buyers bases for a non-luxury brand, on average earning way above the average household income ($80K in the US, average 4-door Wrangler buyer comes from a $120K average income household). I really tire of this "no one can afford them but they're buying" talk here. Its just not true. It shows a lack of awareness about the facts of who the actual buyers of these vehicles are. The average new car buyer in the US is 53 years old. That's also the most well off age demographic in the US.
The reality is the new vehicle buyer who is struggling the most financially is also buying from the lowest end of the market. Though in general people buying new cars are significant better off than the average car driver. The majority of vehicle sales each year are used, 3x as much as new.
YaBoiRian@reddit
Wow, I never realised how many of my favourite car brands are all under Stellantis. I hope they turn it around cus the world would be a much sadder place without Abarths, Alfa Romeos, and Maseratis
RiftHunter4@reddit
I would be amazed if all their brands are still running by the end of 2025. Most of them have barely been hanging on.
mustangfan12@reddit
Probably not, they have to bring back the HEMI V8 and restart the production of the charger/challenger. That or make some decent economy cars. The EV charger is DOA purely because of its price, and they don't have the money to develop a new economy car that is reliable. Their current CEO wants to go all in EVs even though sales are declining because they're too expensive, don't have enough range and poor charging infrastructure
Great_Income4559@reddit
And some people will probably be mad if the charger/challenger comes back because of the big ticket price for the last call models.
IAmTaka_VG@reddit
Ram and jeep aren’t going anywhere. Maybe they shed some brands but this is comical to even question if they can be saved.
A good CEO and a few years can completely turn a company around. Look at Nadela and Microsoft.
1988rx7T2@reddit
I think he means as independent American brands.
Tapprunner@reddit
While this is true, Nadella and Jobs don't just grow on trees. Those are two of the most successful CEOs of the last 50 years.
Stellantis strikes me as an NBA team that starts the season by losing ten games in a row. They've still got 72 games left to play, so there's still time to turn it around. Then again, they suck, or they wouldn't be 0-10. There's no reason to think that team is going to suddenly become good.
EngineersAnon@reddit
Or Apple...
LerxstLadrian@reddit
Hopefully they will collapse so i don't have to see those idiotic ducks anymore.
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