Iraq 'to pass law' allowing girls as young as nine to…

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Nethlem@reddit

That makes Iraq more progressive than some US states which still don't have a minimum marriage age to this day.

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Delicious_Clue_531@reddit

https://giwps.georgetown.edu/the-index/

Guess where Iraq is on this report, and where the US is compared to it.

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Nethlem@reddit

An arbitrary ranking by an American organization, created by Hillary Clinton, ranks the US higher than "axis of evil" countries, is supposed to prove what exactly?

Does that ranking change the reality how the Iraqi age of consent is still many years higher than that of some US states, where it's literally zero?

Does that ranking change the reality how Iraq has more exceptions to its ban on abortions, in cases of incest and rape, than some US states that have banned all abortions, without any exceptions at all?

While in some US states statutory rape is practically legal as long as the victim can be forced to marry the perpetrator.

These are concrete issues where Iraq "scores" either better than the US or about the same. While that American ranking does nothing but perpetuate the usual myths of American exceptionalism or at least Western averageness, so we can keep acting as if the whole West is a political and cultural monolith, which it is not.

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Delicious_Clue_531@reddit

My word, you actually believe it’s better to be a woman in Iraq than the United States.

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Nethlem@reddit

My word, you actually believe it’s better to be a woman in Iraq than the United States.

That's neither what I wrote nor claimed, but don't let that stop you from arguing your imaginary strawman.

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Delicious_Clue_531@reddit

You went and not only claimed that Iraq exceeded the United States on some standards of women’s status and empowerment, but also then criticized an organization that suggested that it was better to be a woman in America than in Iraq (crazy idea: I know) because it’s a “arbitrary ranking.” Then you went silent for over week after I provided more sources that agreed with that claim.

So, yeah, that definitely looks like someone was trying to claim it’s better to be a woman in Iraq than in the United States. So how about you just say it outright: do you think it’s worse to be a woman in America than Iraq?

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Aromatic-Teacher-717@reddit

It's really pointless to argue with people (or bots) who believe the sum of all evils in the world is The West.

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Delicious_Clue_531@reddit

https://hdr.undp.org/data-center/thematic-composite-indices/gender-inequality-index#/indicies/GII

Here’s yet another source comparing the two.

Hmm.

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Necessary_Win5111@reddit

Weird phrasing for a title. A more apt title would have been:

“Iraq to pass law allowing degenerate, perverted old f*cks to marry nine year olds girls while stripping women of other rights”

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HoFattoScaloAGrado@reddit

If they made like decent yanks they would starve their kids to death en masse through economic measures and strip their women of their lives through Shock'n'Awe bombing runs

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According_Elk_8383@reddit

You can’t go two minutes without blaming Jews, or Israel.

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HoFattoScaloAGrado@reddit

The state of Israel has a mass murder policy re: women and children. But if I remember my IHRA it's antisemitic to conflate the state of Israel with the Jewish people, and plenty of Jews object to the state's actions. Wind it in boyo

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According_Elk_8383@reddit

The percentage of women and children that have died, is directly equal to their size of the population.

This is true of any civilian casualties, in literally any war.

You’ve now created a false duality, where if I say all Jews support Israel - youll either say all Jews are evil, or you’ll point to the 2% of Jews that don’t and claim they’re the “real Jews”: despite the fact that it’s a meaningless statement.

“Thin Ice”, it’s interesting to see the confidence of abhorrent people.

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HoFattoScaloAGrado@reddit

is directly equal to their size of the population.

Yes? I would say so. Total war. Criminal. Children with heads blown in by sniper fire. Impossible to say indiscriminate.

Compare to the supposedly genocidal killing for which Gaddafi had to be ousted:

The Gaddafi regime had retaken towns from the rebels without attacking civilians in early February 2011. During fighting in Misrata, the hospital recorded 257 people killed and 949 people wounded in February and March 2011. Those casualties included 22 women and eight children. Libyan doctors told United Nations investigators that Tripoli’s morgues contained more than 200 corpses following fighting in late February 2011, of whom two were female. The disparity between male and female casualties suggested that Gaddafi regime forces targeted male combatants in a civil war and did not indiscriminately attack civilians

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201617/cmselect/cmfaff/119/11905.htm

You’ve now created a false duality, where if I say all Jews support Israel - youll either say all Jews are evil, or you’ll point to the 2% of Jews that don’t and claim they’re the “real Jews”: despite the fact that it’s a meaningless statement.

Silly games. You are a silly person.

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According_Elk_8383@reddit

There are no children with “heads blown in by sniper fire”, you’re taking that image from an article that tried to claim this - but was debunked because the scans didn’t match either sniper fire, long range weapons, or any kind of entry / exit wound damage. They looked as if someone had placed a bullet on top of an image, and then took a photo.

Radiologists, and doctors from all over the world confirmed this as fake.

You’re claiming the killing by Gaddafi was genocidal, but include no evidence to support / counter that claim.

It’s a false comparison, and you’re wrong.

The average urban warfare death rate for civilian casualties is 1-9, this war is at 1-1.5.

You’re wrong, and you’re not just slightly wrong - you’re 6x wrong.

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Delicious_Clue_531@reddit

That’s just a weird attempt to pin blame on the United States, which has no role in the parliament voting on this.

The Iraqi government have made their own choice on this. They aren’t kids, so I suggest you hold them to their own failure.

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HoFattoScaloAGrado@reddit

Talk of blame is boring. Something happens and then afterwards something else is more or less likely to happen. Can we spot trends? Avoid them? OP here is disgusted by Iraq's degeneracy, and fair enough, but somebody who really cares about women and kids would turn their attention to what the prospects are for the world's women and kids, and what ruins prospects for them. Rubbernecking a weird vote in Iraq and spitting on the floor is not the response of somebody practicing joined up thinking. Iraq is a basket-case, only ten years or so out of the American war, but really still the site of US bombing runs in 2024.

The CIA knew that the bombing flat of Cambodia led to Khmer Rouge ranks swelling, and the KR received US funding right up through the 80s. Somehow the mainstream history of Cambodia is that it weNt MaD wITh CoMMunISM but the real history doesn't bear out the story. How does such ignorance help us avoid another Pol Pot? It doesn't.

Iraq will get worse and worse, it's guaranteed, unless it gets breathing room and help.

Refuse these daily cartoons.

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REVEreveREV3@reddit

ur right

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Delicious_Clue_531@reddit

Again, I call bullshit on your words. Nobody’s holding a gun to the Iraqi parliament’s head telling them to do any of this. And you are the one filming blame at the Americans for this, so it’s certainly not boring for you to do so, despite your claims to otherwise. Because, why not? Your entire account appears to just be doing your damndest to only blame America for the world’s problems.

But It’s been now 20 years since that initial invasion of the country by the US. It has had multiple elections. It has mostly regained control over its entire territory. The American presence has dwindled and dwindled, year after year. America has stopped funding islamists against the fight of communism decades ago. And you don’t see the Kurds doing this, do you? Even though they have to deal with an even more hostile region, they’re not making this kind of revolting choice. Ukraine, in the middle of an invasion by Russia, hasn’t done that either. Pointing to past behavior of the United States in the 90s and 2000s in Iraq doesn’t explain this choice, much less even justify this measure.

This isn’t some random accident. This was a calculated choice that made it through the levels of government, and will likely become a law. Probably because that part of the world has a culture hostile to its own women, that only in some areas has been improving recently. Maybe it wouldn’t be if it didn’t keep making these choices.

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HoFattoScaloAGrado@reddit

TLDR: This new law is despicable but concerned news consumers must scrutinise closely what sort of situations moulder and fester to produce these outcomes. If you are concerned about the world’s women and children, the biggest step to be taken is to end the West’s wanton militarism, allowing the world to find some chill. Playing whack a mole with this or that suddenly whacky government helps nobody.

...you are the one filming blame at the Americans for thi--

Should trees take blame for precipitating a dangerous storm with the cloud-seeding particles they release into the air? Only guilty minds find blame where there is talk of causes. (And the trees know what they did.)

your entire account appears to just be doing your damndest to only blame America for the world’s proble--

The US declared itself World Police following the Soviet defeat of European fascism. But it is also the coordinator of the world's business environment and has a history of deposing governments that block its corporate ambitions (this is called a conflict of interest), regardless of the chaos that ensues. Actually chaos looks like the point -- one should be leery of US world-policing as one would be of a private firefighting firm that turns up in town after a spate of arson.

the deaths and torture of my family by communists in Macedonia on America

Don’t trivialise family tragedies by bringing them into non-personal discussions of world politics. Your family folklore has no place here. I suppose you made the same mistake in the other discussion. I don’t know your family or the particulars of the story and won’t be giving any weight to your version of events. Apropos of nothing, did you catch the funny story about the Canadian memorial to ‘victims of Communism’ mostly being a list of Nazis XD

But It’s been now 20 years since that initial invasion of the country by the US. It has had multiple elections. It has mostly regained control over its entire territory. The American presence has dwindled and dwindled, year after year. America has stopped funding islamists against the fight of communism decades ago.

The US declared an end to their war just over ten years ago but remain in Iraq, occupying military installations and carrying out strikes. Your account is false, telling that you throw around accusations of “bullshit”. My argument has been that endless warfare in countries targeted by the US has been followed by social horrors. You don’t have a counter to this.

Sometimes the US funds extremists, sometimes an airdrop of weapons accidentally lands nearby extremists, sometimes the chaos following US military action creates a vacuum for extremists to take advantage of. So many whoopsie daisies. It’s a historical fact that in post-war Italy the US prepped OPERATION GLADIO — sleeper cells of armed fascists ready to rise up if the country swung to far leftwards. After successes with such chaos agents as death squads in South America, Mujahideen in Afghanistan, the mass killings of communists in Indonesia… why would the US ever swear off such tactics? (It has never sworn off such tactics)

And you don’t see the Kurds doing this, do you?

Why respond as if I am suggesting world events unfold as surely as a glass knocked off the counter by a cat will fall to the ground. Above, discussing blame, I said, “Something happens and then afterwards something else is more or less likely to happen.” I am not making hard and fast rules.

However, as tragic as their treatment has often been at the hands of international forces, I don’t buy the Squeaky Clean Kurds story. For instance, the Peshmerga still has to account for how it mysteriously abandoned territory in Iraq for just long enough in 2014 for ISIL to move in and genocide the Yazidis there. Let’s not even go near Ukraine lol, what a crazy example. The Western media was worried about Nazis (however hypocritically) in Ukraine before 2022. Fine, they didn’t make it legal to marry nine year olds? "What Nice Nazis"?

Ultimately, under Saddam, marriage law was preserved. In the post-war chaos, religious fundamentalists have grown in power. This is party on Uncle Sam. He must take some responsibility.

Apropos of nothing, did you know some US states don’t have a legal age for marriage? Did you know Los Angeles is the world capital for child sex trafficking? Did you know that Kosovo is the European hub for sex trafficking, ever since falling into Washington’s hands?

There’s no disgust to feel for Iraqi lawmakers that shouldn’t felt one hundred times more in the heart of the West.

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Delicious_Clue_531@reddit

The United States is not god, or some supernatural force that compels Iraq’s government to push forward this law. It’s not a storm, it’s a country. You’ve continued to ignore that point, and blame this choice made by people of their own accord, on the American government. No amount of American conflict or presence ever saw Japan, Germany, Panama, Grenada, the Philippines, Korea, Vietnam, or the other states around the world to ever reach the state where they passed laws like this allowing pedophilia. The Kurds, who have been surrounded by enemies for decades, bombed, gassed, denied a state, fought IS, fought Assad, fought Saddam, who now control an autonomous territory in northern Iraq, never passed a law like this. So I indeed call your attempt to blame the United States for this law absurd.

“Soviet defeat of”

Showing your hand here bud. Yeah, like it was the only one that fought Nazi germany. Ignoring, of course, the global effort taken to defeat Germany, which cost lives of millions across the world.

Of course, what makes it hilarious and sad is that the Soviets installed and supported one-party states in the aftermath that brutalized their populations, including my family; the first being my great-grandfather who beaten to death in front of his wife and sons. And I’d remind you that it got so bad under Soviet leadership, Eastern Europe eventually had revolutions under them. Since then, considering I have yet to have even a single member of my family in Skopje even approach the level of harm under your comrades, and your comrades unpopularity when forced to compete against other political parties. I’m just fine talking about how shit life was under the far left.

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HoFattoScaloAGrado@reddit

If you are concerned about the world’s women and children, the biggest step to be taken is to end the West’s wanton militarism, allowing the world to find some chill.

This is my point, and it stands.

Yeah, like it was the only one that fought Nazi germany.

Basically, more or less. The West was fighting a war for imperial territory -- US vs. Japanese in the Pacific, Britain vs. Germany in North Africa. Western Europe put their fingers in their ears when Stalin came knocking asking to form an anti-Nazi combat alliance. They were hoping the Nazis would head east and take out the Commies for them. The US lost 500,000 soldiers, the Soviets 26 million soldiers and civilians. Such massive gaps in your historical knowledge. Hey maybe lend & lease helped a bit. But Normandy? Defeating the Desert Fox? Tinkering around the ages. Fiddling while Stalingrad burned.

that brutalized their populations, including my family; the first being my great-grandfather who beaten to death in front of his wife and sons.

I repeat:

Don’t trivialise family tragedies by bringing them into non-personal discussions of world politics. Your family folklore has no place here. I suppose you made the same mistake in the other discussion. I don’t know your family or the particulars of the story and won’t be giving any weight to your version of events. Apropos of nothing, did you catch the funny story about the Canadian memorial to ‘victims of Communism’ mostly being a list of Nazis XD

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Delicious_Clue_531@reddit

I’m expressing my extreme disgust at how a culture like this is allowing a law to pass. I don’t care to do anything in Iraq to change this, and nothing I have read thus far or learned has convinced me that the US is to be blamed for this nonsensical bill. They made their choice on their own, and they can own up to it on their own.

Remember the thousands of dead across Europe who sacrificed their lives to stop the fascist? Remember how Yugoslavia beat back the fascists on our own?

Remember them? Because I do, that includes my family, and we didn’t fight under the Soviet banner. And that’s just one part of the struggle. Your hero Stalin signed a non aggression pact and tore up Eastern Europe with Hitler, before they both fought each other. Meanwhile, tens of thousands of dead from allied work to defeat the fascists in Europe, To say nothing of US work in Asia, which was paid in American blood to free that region from imperial Japan: an entity so hated the Japanese still face hate from Asian states to this day.

I’m not trivializing my family’s history by speaking it. You don’t know what my family has said when it comes to speaking about what we and my people suffered under one-party far-left rule, and whether or not I’m insulting them by saying it. Unless you happen to know anyone from Skopje, tetovo, or Beloviste, who have the authority to overrule my immediate family, which includes the son of the man your comrades killed, on what is or isn’t appropriate to share, kindly do not tell me again to shut up about my family’s experiences under communist rule. Because I promise you, it’s not unique, and it’s emblematic of why my people voted to leave Yugoslavia.

Yeah, I did hear about the memorial, and I got to say, while I’m unimpressed that large amounts of those names had connections to the far right, people who complained about it even being erected before that came out actually make me furious—suggesting that we who either lived through under that system or have family who did don’t deserve to remember that abysmal system of governance which stole too much from us. And when people almost try to snidely suggest or hint that “only nazis were victims of communism”—

I have to be honest: that’s probably the single group of people I personally hate more than any other group. Because that is a lie.

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HoFattoScaloAGrado@reddit

kindly do not tell me again to shut up about my family’s experiences under communist rule

I'm not really saying shut up, I'm saying I don't care about your anecdotes and that they are not relevant in this discussion.

while I’m unimpressed that large amounts of those names had connections to the far right, people who complained about it even being erected before that came out actually make me furious

Unmoved by fascists making up the majority of names on a victims of communism memorial, cross with people protesting said memorial

got it

:/

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Delicious_Clue_531@reddit

I’m pissed that the memorial had people speak against it even before that came out, and since then have had seen a handful of people try and use this debacle to frame history as if only nazis got killed by communists.

Am I pissed that nobody seemed to check large amounts of the names on the memorial were connected to the far right? Yes, yes I am. If you haven’t forgotten what groups were killed in the holocaust, Slavs were one of them. I have no love for the men who tortured my great-great-aunt as she partisans, and killed so many of my people.

But that memorial ultimately, was not meant to commemorate the far right, and its owners worked to fix that problem almost immediately, so I don’t care as much as the outrage by some around its creation and purpose.

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loggy_sci@reddit

NATO attacks in Libya were pursuant to a UN resolution and approved by the UN Security Council. Russia and China abstained but could have stopped it. It was coordinated with Arab League nations. It’s a bad example to include in your little rant.

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HoFattoScaloAGrado@reddit

What a narrow response to my little rant.

UN resolution 1973 mandated action to protect civilians. It was not well written. NATO blew the resolution out of the water when it violently pursued regime change in Libya. This was likely illegal but of course will never get to the Hague (the US has a law on the books that it will invade the Hague if Americans are called up there). Loss of civilian life in the bombing is untallied, although some guilty parties are beginning to acknowledge the NATO strikes killed civilians; ultimately the messy incursion led to civil war with countless thousands dead.

Libya is a deadly ruin now, spilling terrorists into North Africa, and this is the aftermath of Western support for rebels, blocking of cease fire deals, failure to establish humanitarian corridors and the NATO bombing, not the aftermath of Gadaffi's rule or the phoney genocide supposedly in the offing. (Not to repeat myself but the response of NATO countries to Israel 2023-24 shows exactly how much concern they have for genocide.)

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Iraq 'to pass law' allowing girls as young as nine to marry while stripping women of other rights

ImageWomen gather to protest the change of law - (AP)Iraq is set to change its laws to allow men to marry girls as young as nine and strip women of rights around divorce, child custody and inheritance.

The country’s ruling conservative Shia Muslim parties are set to vote through amendments to the Law 188 - which was passed by a more progressive government in 1959.

A second reading was passed in September, despite thousands protesting it, with the Iraqi government stating it would protect girls from “immoral relationships”.

If passed, it means that Iraq will have the youngest age of consent in the world - with neighbouring Iran having the second youngest at 13.

As well as lowering the potential age of marriage, it will also remove women’s rights to divorce, child custody and inheritance, reports the Telegraph.

Razaw Salihy, Amnesty International’s Iraq researcher, said: “Iraqi lawmakers must heed the warnings of civil society and women’s rights groups on the devastating impact of these amendments.

“[They] would eliminate the current legal marriage age of 18 for both girls and boys, paving the way for child marriages, as well as stripping women and girls of protections regarding divorce and inheritance.”

The move will now proceed after the Iraqi Federal Supreme Court ruled that the amendments were aligned with Iraq’s constitution.

Sharia law is derived from the Quran as well as writings on the Prophet Muhammad although different individuals and governments interpret the laws differently.

Shia law - which relates here - is a version of Sharia law that considers rulers or imams to be divinely inspired.

Similar amendments to those proposed by Iraq were put forward in 2014 and 2017 but failed to pass due to nationwide outcry, Amnesty has said.

Ms Salihy added: “Not only does child marriage deprive girls of their education, but married girls are more vulnerable to sexual and physical abuse, and health risks related to early pregnancy.

“It is alarming that these amendments to the Personal Status Law are being pushed so vehemently when completely different urgent legal reforms are needed to protect Iraqi women and girls’ rights.”

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