Trump and Aviation
Posted by DrRichtofen18@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 336 comments
With Trump set to return to office in 2025, his agenda includes another attempt to reform the FAA and privatize air traffic control after trying to do so in his first term. Outlined from his agenda:
- Require the FAA to operate like a business.
- Shift from aviation user taxes to fees for air traffic services paid directly to ATC.
- Consolidate the 20 centers into "a much smaller number"
- Prohibit construction of new towers, unless they were digital/remotely operated
- ATC is too "overly cautious" when it comes to safety because they are currently a branch of the FAA
- Pilot shortage could be reversed if copilots were required to have fewer flight hours or could count certified simulator training.
- Elimination of Essential Air Service contracts to "free up pilots"
While most of us agree that the FAA could use some reforms (Medical, unleaded fuels, DPEs), in my opinion, privatization of ATC would be a massive hit to GA, worsen safety across the board, and the removal of the 1,500-hour rule would tank pay while applicants would still need around 1,500 to be competitive. The US has the most robust aviation system in the world, we shouldn't fix what ain't broke.
Not even mentioned yet is the plan for a 10-20% tariff which would drive up the cost of acquiring new aircraft from any manufacturer.
redtildead1@reddit
I can’t imagine consolidating centers is a good idea, they’re already setup in such a way to balance workload and traffic
Low_Inspector3184@reddit
How many times has Trump denied having anything to do with Project 2025? And you still say “his agenda”
findquasar@reddit
How many times has he denied that he lost in 2020 or that he was buddies with Epstein?
Trump denying something is a very low bar to set for its validity.
Mimshot@reddit
We love contract towers. Let’s move to all contract towers.
DrRichtofen18@reddit (OP)
Everyone gets to enjoy the KSQL controller
JJ-_-@reddit
I used to fly out of KSQL for my PPL, it kind of amazed me how every single time I flew with my instructor while getting my PPL, without fail we would always have the same grumpy guy up in the tower yelling at everyone
Suspicious_Rough_829@reddit
I fly out of SQL now, they fired the prick a few months ago thank god. Heard some horror stories from my CFI
JJ-_-@reddit
ooh i see. what flight school are you at?
Suspicious_Rough_829@reddit
San Carlos flight center
JJ-_-@reddit
oh that's where i was at too!! i miss that place, i might visit over the winter. who's ur instructor? if you don't mind sharing ofc😅
radioref@reddit
We definitely should bring back Brenda who retired from DTO and put her in charge of AUS when they are converted to a contract tower. FedEx cleared to land on top of a SWA who is rolling down the runway and she’s questioned?
“Use your Callsign!”
GaughanFan@reddit
Brenda the notorious controller? Who was very particular about what a short approach is? Lol
radioref@reddit
I actually heard that exchange live. It was surreal..and that says a lot given the shenanigans that went on during her tenure there. I don’t think we’ll ever see (hear) again some of the sheer insanity that went on at DTO ever again. You had to be there to experience it.
nascent_aviator@reddit
Save on expenses by having that guy control all the towers at once.
Former_Farm_3618@reddit
Where’s the FNL flyers at?! That harbor freight looking RV is the future! Those guys there deny pattern work regularly.
KehreAzerith@reddit
The FAA isn't a "business" for a good reason
Business mentality doesn't work for essential government services. I do agree the FAA needs reforms but these aren't the reforms that I'm looking for.
AutomaticVacation242@reddit
Are you sure there are no contract towers and that Lockheed Martin doesn't run the FSS? I think those are businesses.
Mountain_Fig_9253@reddit
There is a world of difference between government running a system like ATC and contracting out small pieces of the service with oversight and privatizing the entire system.
NOAA will fall first (probably) but ATC won’t be far behind. There are lots of billionaires that will salivate at being able to charge to access systems we have all assumed would just “be there”.
AutomaticVacation242@reddit
So those contract towers and FSS have failed?
I really don't care if ATC is privatized or not but your assessment that private business cannot run essential services in incorrect.
bt2513@reddit
Systems paid for by taxes, no?
Professional_Fix_223@reddit
After being a CEO for a moderately sized business and working g at a senior executive in a state government job, it is 100% true the two are different and should be managed differently from a fiscal point of view and more.
AndyLorentz@reddit
I lean lowercase "L" libertarian, but I understand why we need a government. I never understood these types that say the government should operate like a business. The purpose of a business is to make money. The purpose of the government is... *checks Constitution* "...to establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty for us and our posterity..."
The government doesn't sound too profitable to me, and it shouldn't be.
dood8face91195@reddit
I really don’t think this is the right president to be touching up on the FAA honestly
EquinosX@reddit
I’m sure he has a lot of smart people around him that will point him in the right direction
NotThatEasily@reddit
Can you name a single qualified person he had working for him in his last administration?
EquinosX@reddit
He could have just asked his Air Force one pilot. Gosh what’s with all the downvotes I thought pilots were conservative
Angryg8tor@reddit
He's not the right president for anything!
grant0208@reddit
Too bad
TheDrMonocle@reddit
Just because he won doesn't mean we have to let him run amok doing what he wants.
I don't care what side you're on, he has some genuinely bad ideas, and if you don't recognize that even if you support him, you're the problem.
grant0208@reddit
Fun fact: didn’t support him, didn’t vote for him, actively worked hard to get word out about these changes. Tons of pilots voted for him anyways, potentially destroying GA and the ATP career structure. And lots of people who campaigned and voted for him are in here now complaining. Sucks to suck!
Edit: and considering he says things like “this is the last time you’ll have to vote” tells me he WILL be the president to get his slimy orange fingers all over the FAA at some point.
TheDrMonocle@reddit
Fair enough.
Crusoebear@reddit
And this idea that ATC needs to start taking more chances? Wtf? Who thought this nonsense up - Ricky Bobby?
9Implements@reddit
Flying would be a lot more fun if commercial flights ended with a few zero g parabolas.
the__satan@reddit
Shit, my trainee last year took enough chances for the rest of the FAA. Didn’t feel bad at all washing her out
AlpacaCavalry@reddit
Yeah... about that...
RicksterA2@reddit
6 bankruptcies and one of them losing money in a casino!
virulentspore@reddit
Sounds perfect for running government /s
Jordan51104@reddit
where does it work
AlpacaCavalry@reddit
Nowhere, but we all know more of that is coming, do we not?
Jordan51104@reddit
i suppose i misread your comment, i apologize
AlpacaCavalry@reddit
No hard feelings! Nuances are hard to read on a text comment and upon reading my initial comment, it was pretty ambiguous
link_dead@reddit
"AMEX 4970 requesting flight following"
"AMEX 4970 request approved squawk 4 digit security code to confirm"
radioref@reddit
“Would you like to upgrade to a 6 digit enhanced flight following squawk? Comes with up to 10 traffic advisories and 5 vectors. A class B transition is 5.99 plus 10 cents a mile, but surge pricing is in effect during peak times”
link_dead@reddit
If they start charging to enter class B maybe I can finally buy my way into Chicago airspace.
dodexahedron@reddit
You can bet the value carriers will love the opportunity to pass the fee along to passengers as a specific line item plus a markup for "regulatory access fee."
timesuck47@reddit
Where is the security code? I didn’t get that text!
UnhingedCorgi@reddit
For customer service, squawk 1. Average wait time: 1 hour and 47 minutes. Please hold as published…
dodexahedron@reddit
To continue service in NATO, press niner. Otherwise, please contact k as in pound (since pounds are more american), t as in tore, b as in bore, c as in core on about a hunnit and thirty and a half for service in moron.
Acceptable-Oven-7145@reddit
For most aircraft it’s the number towards the back on the empennage but for AMEX aircraft you’re gonna want to check the front on the engine cowling or nose cone
AlpineAviator@reddit
What would the elimination of EAS look like for the regionals?
21MPH21@reddit
Most EAS pilots are building their time to get to a regional. So eliminating the EAS would mean they would have to find another way to build time to get to 1,500 hrs
AlpineAviator@reddit
Oop I was under the impression that most EAS was operated by SkyWest and such but now I see a lot of it is SAE, Contour, etc. but damn it might suck for low timers
DirkChesney@reddit
They’d probably stand to lose a chunk of money. Idk how much of their profits come from EAS but idk if it’s small
Bloominonion82@reddit
With this plan many, many people will die. But hey if it makes a profit why care, right?
dahindenburg@reddit
“Many of you may die. But that’s a risk I’m willing to take!”
Interesting_Law_9138@reddit
Sorry, your METAR subscription has expired. Renew for only $9.99/mo at AccuWeather.com
LymePilot@reddit
With a Republican Senate we are hopefully looking at a return to 100% bonus depreciation.
DataGOGO@reddit
Fuck yeah, bring it on.
TheDrMonocle@reddit
Why do you think this is a good idea?
LymePilot@reddit
When UHNWI’s can instantaneously depreciate their 40-70 million dollar new airplane it makes them want to buy winged machines
FailedCriticalSystem@reddit
what is it?
play_hard_outside@reddit
Don't forget privatizing NOAA and deleting America's publicly accessible weather models, thereby also ultimately removing our access to foreign weather models as information sharing is curtailed.
kwanster321@reddit
Something to consider is how much the unions have sway in Washington. I imagine they’ll be penning several letters to congress about this.
Sspmd11@reddit
Unions have little influence compared to corporations.
kwanster321@reddit
Respectfully, if that were true, there would be 1 pilot flight decks now. I will concede that the FAA does hate new technology and that has been a barrier as well.
Sspmd11@reddit
Wrong. FAA is not going for single pilot because the evidence does not support that it’s as safe. Unions have zero to do with this at the higher levels. I have first hand knowledge of this.
kwanster321@reddit
Again, respectfully, I’ve seen this first hand with the planes I’ve flown. When FedEx decided to put in a new autopilot in their caravans, each FSDO had to approve this change. For some reason it another, the FSDO that is in Kansas refused to do so for 3 years. After that, they finally relented.
I’m not trying to discredit your statement, rather I’m making the point that both things can be true.
Sspmd11@reddit
In a talk at ALPA Safety Week the FAA chief scientist stated what I wrote.
Drew-Blankenship@reddit
You guys are delusional if you think the first thing on his mind in office is to drastically change the FAA and ATC. I’ll come back to this in 4 years when its exactly the same as today.
DrRichtofen18@reddit (OP)
He tried to privatize atc in the first 6 months of his first term in 2017.
elcid1s5@reddit
The 1500 hr rule has got to go. People are delaying their whole future to reach a number that’s basically irrelevant once you reach a jet. I don’t care if it lowers pay. It wasn’t a fair rule to begin with, and doesn’t do the public any favors.
majorgiraffe07@reddit
Listen, if delaying my future for a couple years flying as cfi means I’m going the get more money in that future, the 1500hr rules has to stay, yes, flying a jet must be cool not gonna lie, but you have to make a living too
21MPH21@reddit
Exactly
If anyone can get their ATP at 200 hrs and go to a jet the pilot market will be flooded and companies will have all the power.
Safety will go down. 200 hrs isn't the right number of hours and neither is 1,500 a magical number. But something clicks somewhere closer to 1,500 that makes pilots safer.
Pay will go down as will safety = win win for trump.
majorgiraffe07@reddit
Dude no joke, in my home country (Venezuela) you can get on a airline jet with 170 hours which is the CPL with IR, how much pilots gets pays? less than 10k a year, safety? Go figure out
21MPH21@reddit
Yep, and that's what we could have here in the US if trump has his way.
IFlyPA28II@reddit
I wanna see you when they cut your pay and you can’t afford your 3 ex wife’s and boat
slay1224@reddit
Shit you’ll bearly be able to afford a shitty one bedroom apartment in a shitty part of town with furniture from the Salvation Army. Ask me how I know?
DirkChesney@reddit
Man I couldn’t agree more. Things seem to work fine over in Europe and Asia without a 1500hr rule
satapotatoharddrive4@reddit
You definitely care if it lowers pay, just having a cool job doesn't pay bills.
elcid1s5@reddit
I would care but I’m also not an boomer Union grouche.
Yesthisisme50@reddit
You still have time to delete this comment
elcid1s5@reddit
Only cowards do that.
Natewry@reddit
1500 hours is arbitrary sure, but the only reason it’s relevant is because hiring has been so high the past few years. Historically people are delaying their whole future for FAR longer than 1500 hours. I’m curious though, what do you think should be the requirement?
elcid1s5@reddit
Whatever the Europeans do is probably fine.
Baystate411@reddit
The only people who complain about the 1500 hour rule are people with less than 1500 hours
WorkingOnPPL@reddit
I wonder what “0 hours-to-a-jet in 90 days” training programs will do for pilot wages in the USA?
HumanServices@reddit
Don’t be a fool
elcid1s5@reddit
I don’t usually juggle and joke around. So don’t worry.
RegionalJet@reddit
The mods keep deleting these threads about the election's impacts on aviation. Two threads about the proposed plans to privatize the NWS (something that directly affects flying) were deleted.
x4457@reddit
In general we keep politics out of here because god knows it’s everywhere fucking else. This is the singular exception we’re making.
BravoCharlieZulu@reddit
…Except Project 2025 is not Trump’s agenda…it’s a mishmash of agenda from conservative groups that would love Trump to adopt. The OP’s assertion is not founded.
RegionalJet@reddit
Why do you decide to delete threads that are political when there's no rule against them? There are just some things in this industry that are affected by politics and I don't see the issue with discussing that. A lot of those threads, like this one for example, had a lot of good discussions going before you guys deleted them with no explanation. It wasn't like there was a huge flame war in the comments either.
x4457@reddit
Because that was yesterday, this is today, and the world has changed since then. Had this been posted yesterday, it would have been deleted too.
This is, again, the only exception we will be making and only because the parent text has significant effort put into starting a relevant discussion.
jigglypiss@reddit
Sounds like something a child would write. Too bad someone gave you responsibility
RegionalJet@reddit
So, we're not allowed to discuss any major proposed changes to the aviation industry that could happen unless a new administration is elected? Was that the rule for everything such as single pilot ops, ATC privatization, age 67, etc?
1959Skylane@reddit
There are no proposed changes though. If you find an actual bill that these politicians actually write one day, you can probably post the language of the bill and have a good discussion of it here. Right now this is just a discussion of platitudes, and very vague hopes and dreams or nightmares. Show me a bill that actually advances out of a committee first. With an evenly split House and Senate, even a Republican majority in both is not going to be sufficient to make passage of that bill realistic.
x4457@reddit
I’m not going to dignify this with a response. You know full well that those things are frequently discussed here to the extent necessary.
dab45de@reddit
This is why Reddit mods get a bad rap. I get it can be an annoying frustrating task. But obviously this is something the community wants. So let it bed. Dumb
Ok-Dust-@reddit
From the horses mouth he’s not associated with p25, so at best it’s making a shaky connection. IMO if it would say Project 2025s impact on aviation, that’d be fair, but so far Trump has absolutely distanced himself from this. Debating whether he is with it or not is a discussion not for flying. So in all this should be banned too if we’re being totally objective.
BrosenkranzKeef@reddit
Nah, that’s a crock. You know for a fact that aviation is heavily dominated by conservative politics, probably 80%, virtually all of the exceptions being very young and new pilots. Deleting these threads is a way to avoid having to face the facts that our safe yet complex system could possibly become unsafe, and all the pilots who voted for it will have to answer for it.
MetatronicGin@reddit
The DMV enters the chat. Privatized DMV is 1000% better. More expensive...yes, but my time is worth more than the fees
bwilly11@reddit
Look at the date of this...2017. FAKE AND GAY
DrRichtofen18@reddit (OP)
Bro can't read
Excellent_Safe596@reddit
Tariffs would only apply to imports. This is why I bought a U.S. manufactured aircraft and the engine that was manufactured overseas is exempt in this case based on the U.S. distributor.
Chago04@reddit
Tariffs raise the price of foreign goods AND domestic goods as it artificially shifts the price curve.
Excellent_Safe596@reddit
How does it raise the cost of domestic goods that are manufactured here in the U.S.? What price curve are we talking about? Not trying to be smart I genuinely am asking to see if there is something I’m missing.
Chago04@reddit
Essentially in a capitalist society, price is set by demand. US made planes are more expensive because there is a premium that people are willing to pay to have US goods but the company making them is setting the price as high as possible to drive consumers. Now if the competition has a 25% higher price is Cessna just going to ignore the premium people are willing to pay? And if they do try to keep their price the same, won’t demand increase? And when demand increases, prices must increase.
Excellent_Safe596@reddit
I would agree to a certain extent but at the same time there are cheaper options in aircraft. I fly an Arion Lightning and it’s made in the U.S. by a U.S. company that uses a foreign (Australian) engine. The reason I like this plane is it performs well and was 1/3rd the price of most light sport aircraft.
I was reading that there would be exemptions for efficient vehicles that used foreign parts that would be exempt from tariffs. They are looking to tariff mostly finished products.
Reading into what would get tariffs shows that most things would get a 10-20% tariff. I found it interesting that the administration wants to implement 200% tariff on Mexican manufactured finished goods which means those items would have to be made in the U.S. to avoid those fees which would create US jobs but economist are saying it will cost US jobs.
Basically with the increases we have already seen with the weakening of the dollar and higher cost from inflation we are already in this situation in some ways.
One things for certain, aviation is not currently and will never be cheap. It’s already nearly impossible to get some Part 23 certified parts today since a lot of manufacturers already have stopped making legacy aircraft parts. At some point we’re gonna end up with a fleet that we can’t get certified parts because the companies making certified parts rely on US imports current to make a profit.
We will see what happens, Trump didn’t keep all his promises last time and the Biden administration kept all of his tariffs in place during their administration.
Let’s cross our fingers that it’s not as bad as some predict. The articles I’ve read say $3000 more a year per US household. Temu will cease to exist or profits will just cost more.
Excellent_Safe596@reddit
Are you saying that because some industries are protected by the tariffs that they can raise their prices too since low cost imports are no longer available? That’s something I’ve thought about as well.
Chago04@reddit
Essentially yes. This is actually a feature of tariffs. It directly causes inflation.
PotatoHunter_III@reddit
The biggest trump supporters I know of are pilots. Just look at private contributions. Mos of them sre AA/Delta pilots.
HoldinTheBag@reddit
Trump caters to the ultra rich. I don’t think he’ll mess with aviation or hurt GA because the majority of the people he looks out for are private jet owners. He will look out for himself first- which will benefit GA
ps2sunvalley@reddit
Was gonna say how many people voted directly against their own interests. It’s amazing really.
Here we are
GeharginKhan@reddit
It's amazing what you can get people to support as long as you tack lower taxes and enough culture war onto the platform.
SniperPilot@reddit
Saying it’s his agenda and then immediately conceding he doesn’t support the entirety of his agenda is pretty rich lol.
DrRichtofen18@reddit (OP)
You're right, we should always believe the guy who said "They're eating the dogs and cats" on national TV because he has never told a lie.
CrosseyedCletus@reddit
I’m just happy because I suspect this means at least four more years of 100LL
viisionz_@reddit
does anyone think that this administration might screw up the medical process weve been trying to make better? is there any chance that this can further backlog or ban mental health cases? im trying to get into this process but im really nervous that this new administration might be more discriminatory towards ADHD or depression.
i really hope that this doesnt make everything harder.
Jaimebgdb@reddit
Well you can see what happens when you privatise ATC. A great example of that is the UK, where GA flying outside of controlled airspace is a nightmare.
MaulForPres2020@reddit
Can you explain a bit about this? What makes GA flying in the UK a nightmare? I thought it was a pretty GA friendly place?
Jaimebgdb@reddit
It can be friendly under certain circumstances. If you're flying local flights or in the vicinity of the aerodrome and far away from any controlled airspace boundary, then yeah it's "friendly" in that you can do what you want. Anyway I wouldn't call that friendly, just simply what Class G airspace is supposed to be like. Also lots of GA airfields are "friendly" places because they have very low fees, a healthy GA culture, activity, life and so on. This is on the ground though, not in the air.
But try flying any sort of real A to B flight across any meaningful distance in the UK. Bonus points if it's anywhere within South East England or within 50 NM of any large-ish airport. You do it long enough and you will, at some point it's guaranteed, bust controlled airspace through no fault of your own but due to an at times straight out malicious airspace structure design which is out there to get you. It sounds blown out of proportion but all "serious" GA pilots in the UK know what I'm talking about.
grain_farmer@reddit
I fly out of EGKR, literally pocketed within Gatwick’s airspace, one of the busier airports in Europe and have had no issues. Students frequently infringe on Gatwick as there is a low altitude ceiling for the aerodrome.
I primarily fly around the south east near Heathrow, Gatwick, Farnborough and City without issue.
rigor-m@reddit
I was curious what u meant so i looked up a chart of that airspace; now im lowkey shitting myself
Do you mean that students regularly enter the London TMA class A and that's just fine and chill? Where i fly people get fucked over for much less severe shit, I'm just curious
grain_farmer@reddit
I wouldn’t say people are chill about it, it does seem to happen. We all have a unique transponder code given by the tower so I expect any deviation is immediately flagged at Gatwick and if it’s more than momentary probably the issue would be raised.
I only know what I know after hearing an instructor getting chewed out for his student messing up badly. There was definitely no repercussion (officially) for the student in that case.
I think Gatwick are probably very aware Redhill is a student pilot farm.
No-Version-1924@reddit
20 miles to the west of Birmingham, you have Class G up to FL175. To the east, you can fly up to 4500ft (class A above) at 8nm away from the airport.
SE is a mess, because you have 8 airports, within 35nm radius away from London, including 4 airports that are one of the busiest in Europe (LHR, LTN, STN and LGW), and commercial IFR traffic takes priority.
Saltyspaceballs@reddit
Aside of LHR all those airports will give you a zone transit. It just means you have to be confident flying in controlled airspace, but they’re normally really nice and let you fly through. Only Birmingham ever denied me but they’re renowned for it
Hour_Tour@reddit
Nah mate, the southeast is so packed that it wouldn't matter if you reduced airspace sizes or shelves, you couldn't go high/direct any more than you can in NYC.
Would I as a pilot enjoy a more FAA-like airspace structure for my flying? Sure, seems nice. Would I as a controller? Fuck no. And I'm sure every airline pilot agrees it preferable not having to vector-dodge or RA away from VFR-tags galore.
Mr_Marram@reddit
It's not a nightmare, it is pretty easy. The ATSUs are all friendly, they don't always let you through controlled airspace if there is commercial traffic or they are too busy to accommodate.
The biggest issues stem from the compact size of the country and the complex layout of controlled airspace. The CAA did realise this a few years ago with the first lot of Class D grabs (mainly around Farnborough) and now require far more of a plan from anywhere wanting it.
The other major problem is the lack of investment into airfields. They are not profitable unless very carefully managed Back in the 90s they were all re-classified as brownfield sites, hence the local councils are all too happy for the millions from local developers to bang a housing estate on them.
PermeableVampire@reddit
It's two worlds. Inside controlled airspace and outside controlled airspace. Outside its pretty fine, basically no radar coverage, lots of small airfields. But the airspace of the UK is an absolute nightmare of random blocks of class D airspace, and its all operated as though they are private blocks of air for that operator/aerodrome. It's not to say you cant get into controlled airspace as GA, but many places are very, very difficult to get transits, and many are known to "ban" GA by refusing any request usually saying "due traffic density unable" or something similar. Its a load of shite. They just dont want a 172 in their CTA or CTR. Bristol were really bad offenders, same with Southampton.
So you basically have a network of well developed airports for wealthy private jets / commercial operators, and generally pretty poor condition GA fields with no towers, control, instrument approaches etc.
voretaq7@reddit
Literally just look at Canada.
Also the USA being a major pilot mill for the world is baaaaaaaaasically over with privatized ATC and pay-to-play IFR.
PermanentRoundFile@reddit
I'm gonna be so mad if I wasted my entire adult life trying to just fly a plane only to get nickel and dimed right back out.
voretaq7@reddit
My worry is people will still fly, they just won’t use services that require user fees.
So IFR is right out (hooray, more scud running, VFR-into-IMC, and crashing into towers! Exactly what GA needs!), they might try to charge for talking to a weather briefer (so when folks miss something important that’ll be fun!), I don’t know what’ll happen to tower and TRACON ops or “time permittng” services like flight following.....
Saltyspaceballs@reddit
Yet London/Scottish ATC is world class yet the idea of US being accused of being “overly cautious” sends shivers down my spine.
atmos_64@reddit
Same in New Zealand. You get charged for every little thing. It's horrendous, services suck compared to the USA
Tomato_Head120@reddit
Maybe in the North Island. But flying in the south I only got charged for landing fees ($5-10) and if I wanted to use SARTIME it was $10 as well. Definitely not ever little thing
AllHailWestTexas@reddit
SARTIME (or equivalent) and approach services at the least are services that are available for free in the US but are user-paid in NZ, and notably are the ATC services that most directly impact your safety in the air
RGN_Preacher@reddit
I’m currently doing aerial survey work in Canada and it is fucking awful, incredibly inefficient and leagues more unsafe just from the lack of radar services and ADSB mandates.
Celebration_Dapper@reddit
To say nothing about NavCanada’s dreadful staff shortages.
RGN_Preacher@reddit
I professionally offered a bribe to them, send out an overtime email offer and my company will pay whatever controller that wants to come in and let us do our survey work. So many days of progress lost when the weather is amazing out, but no controllers or controllers that are only competent enough to handle 2 VFR survey planes at one time.
Chris-TT@reddit
UK GA pilot here. Flying outside of controlled airspace is absolutely fine. You can usually pick up a LARS (Lower Airspace Radar Service), which typically provides either a Basic Service or a Traffic Service. Alternatively, you can talk to London Information or Scotland Information, which cover most of mainland UK right up to the FIR boundary into Europe. You don’t pay a penny for any of these services! Flying in mainland Europe is very simple in comparison though with a lot more handovers, but once you are used to the UK rules it still works, the terminology is just all a bit different.
No-Version-1924@reddit
This. It's not doom and gloom, it's relatively straightforward, especially with a moving map. Yes, LARS is pretty misjointed with often changing squawks, and VFR flight plans are ... a bit of a mess, but it's far from a nightmare.
There's a lot of airspace in SE, just because there's so many busy airports in a very small airspace, and a lot of Class A doesn't help, but I doubt you can just fly through New York or Bay Area airspace at any altitude you want in a C150 either.
AltoCumulus15@reddit
Why is flying outside of controlled airspace a nightmare in the UK? I’m quite enjoying Class G in Scotland.
tazdevil696@reddit
Okay not sure how many people would agree with me here but.... working as CFI and those earnings are horrible. I would rather work for some more pay and get REAL WORLD experience besides you know doing stalls all day and constant steep turns. While we can have an hour rule, we need to have more CO-OP type of getting this experience. My two cents and I wonder how many down votes I would get.
Valid__Salad@reddit
1500 isn't just a federal regulation.. its also the industry standard for competitiveness. Now that we are where we are with the 1500 hour rule, no airline is even going to *think* about hiring someone without at least that much; even if the regulation goes away. Also, if you think flying a jet from Atlanta to Monroe, La three times a day is in anyway any more "real world experience" than teaching through stalls and maneuvers, you're in for a rude awakening once you do get hired. After you do it a few times, its all the same old shit.
DrRichtofen18@reddit (OP)
No regulations are stopping you from being a part 91 FO on a jet. If 1,500 hour ATP rule went away, you still wouldn't get to a regional until around the same hour mark, and would only take home $21k a year like in 2012.
Canon40@reddit
Literally NOT his agenda. P25 was the product of a think tank, not Trump nor his campaign nor transition team.
RedCrabb@reddit
I’m so upset that the FAA, NOAA and NWS will be gutted because of this guy
tucrahman@reddit
Fuck, all these morons that think services like the FAA or USPS need to be run like a business. Do these fuckers realize how much these entities are part of our economic infrastructure? How much these services allow businesses and people to make money?
airbrett@reddit
If this all came to fruition GA would be similar to Europe, pricing out the vast majority. If any part of the FAA should be spun off, it should be the medical portion. An independent commission or agency that would have a dual role in both still keeping medically unsafe pilots grounded, but equally also making sure that pilots that have treatable conditions that are not dangerous are kept in the air. There are some ridiculous things that can ground someone today.
ValeoRex@reddit
I don’t see anyway that ATC as a fee could ever work. I can see it now, some student pilot entering the traffic pattern, comms silent, “gotta save where I can, can’t afford to talk!”
How would they bill that?
Chago04@reddit
Isn’t that essentially what Canada does? I admit I don’t understand the Canadian ATC system though.
michael_1215@reddit
Trump's first term proved he can be reasoned out of his more ignorant proposals (Mattis talking him out of bombing the Venezuelan dictator, or out of bombing Iran). Yes, most of these proposals are ignorant, but we need to call/write respectful but firm letters to our representatives and the White House to defeat these proposals.
And yes, the 1500 rule is irrational and arbitrary. Regionals aren't hiring people with 1501 hours anyway, and they usually don't outside of the 2022 rush. Making the rule 1000 or something would benefit CFI's during the short, rare hiring rushes, but have no effect during slow periods because supply/demand dictates that 1800 is the hiring point right now. Pilot's unions will keep the trend of pilot wages outpacing inflation.
Jack_Brohamer@reddit
Trump's first term was like the Apprentice. He was "in charge" but people with actual talent ran the show.
Trump's second term will be like Trump Casino.
michael_1215@reddit
That's indeed a possibility. Let's hope not.
greetsforteets@reddit
Talked to the FAA this morning, the US is one of the only places in the world where our ANSP and regulator are under the same roof. Transport Canada and Nav Canada, EASA and Eurocontrol, all different models. But also have a fraction of the capacity of our NAS.
Still interesting stuff
LeeTheNomad@reddit
I guess anyone who needs to fly into Alliance NE will just have to walk there next year if Essential Air Service is stopped
DesertDrifter73@reddit
EAS is a huge waste of money in 95% of the towns. Alliance and Chadron do not need millions of tax dollars. Its a 3.5 hour drive, companies like great lakes and boutique thrived on these wasteful contracts. I flew many many empty flights.
flyingforfun3@reddit
I doubt it’s useless to the 65 locations in Alaska and the 112 across the country.
I flew for an EAS carrier a long time ago and I rarely flew empty.
DesertDrifter73@reddit
AK makes sense, my 95% was for the lower 48. Johnstown PA for example is an hour and 10 minute drive to Pittsburgh, do they really need millions in tax dollars? Even if it wasnt empty it was 1-3 pax on an 8 passenger plane. Its a wasteful program.
flyingforfun3@reddit
So is there a study to prove that 95% of the towns in the lower 48 is a waste or is this just an opinion?
I agree there doesn’t need to be an EAS route when a major city is close. But that doesn’t seem to apply to all or most or even close to 95%. Misinformation is toxic. Anyone can make stuff up. Let’s not create laws based on opinions, let’s make it on facts.
DesertDrifter73@reddit
As long as they arent routinely going over the subsidy cap as of now they are allowed to continue, again most of these companies are shady 135 ops that treat their pilots and pax horribly and are predatory. I hope it gets slashed
flyingforfun3@reddit
If you go to Boutique Air’s site, they are a shell of what they were. Great Lakes went under years ago. Cape Air does a lot of EAS, are they a horrible company? I know there are quite a few. Not all 135s are awful. I’m sorry a 135 hurt you so badly.
DesertDrifter73@reddit
Look at any of the 135’s doing EAS, its all of them. Yes the worst of the worst go out of business, but unless you actually flew EAS you wouldn’t understand and just see it as a political talking point, but sure lets keep adding to the deficit
flyingforfun3@reddit
I doubt he realizes how much of his voter base probably has utilized EAS.
DesertDrifter73@reddit
Barely anyone uses it, total wasteful program in 95% of the towns. If its under a 4 hour drive, sorry your town doesnt need millions to subsidize some shady 135 operator.
flyingforfun3@reddit
Hmm.. you got some stats on this?
DesertDrifter73@reddit
Sure do,
https://www.transportation.gov/office-policy/aviation-policy/essential-air-service-reports
Look at the millions and millions wasted. For again mostly shady 135 ops, all of them have horrible reputations for treating their pilots.
flyingforfun3@reddit
Not one of these links dictates waste. Not one of these pages is a study weighing in the cost/usage. Thanks for confirming it’s an opinion.
flythearc@reddit
I only have anecdotal evidence here, but I worked caravans out of West Virginia for two months doing EAS routes. The ‘van can handle some icing but when SLDs are forecasted and you can’t climb above the soup, you delay… delay… delay. I have no idea why these people would choose to sit and wait 6hrs for a flight when you could do a 2hr drive.
When they would commute me in and book me to fly on company metal, I would request a rental car at whatever airport I flew into instead and drive the 2-3hrs because I knew I’d just end up sitting for a delayed flight in the airport for god knows how long after having already done 10hrs of commuting to get to that point.
EAS routes in the continental US are pretty pointless. EAS routes interisland in Hawaii are actually essential. The people of Molokai have no way to make their doctors appointments on Oahu otherwise. Same for Lanai.
DesertDrifter73@reddit
Thank you for some common sense, yes this was my experience as well but a pc12 that broke most of the time.
Moose135A@reddit
FIFY
DesertDrifter73@reddit
They can drive the 3.5 hours like most rural Americans
BrosenkranzKeef@reddit
Hilarious thing is virtually all EAS customers are conservative voters.
RescuePilot@reddit
Just take a private jet! /s
Law-of-Poe@reddit
republican voters nod approvingly
poser765@reddit
ironically from their single wide
Law-of-Poe@reddit
“Trickle on me daddy”
VolubleWanderer@reddit
Y’all think single pilot flight deck is back on the menu? You think they are gonna try to dissolve ALPA?
findquasar@reddit
I’m fairly certain Musk’s NLRB lawsuit will get some attention now.
So sadly, I do think the unions may be at risk. They are such a huge part of our safety infrastructure and just culture that I’m concerned.
UnhingedCorgi@reddit
The power of unions isn’t granted by the government. It’s from the unity of its members and our ability to grind an airline to a halt overnight. If there was a serious attempt to go after ALPA, I’m pretty sure we’d be forming picket lines pretty fuckin quick.
slay1224@reddit
This is hilarious, the power of the unions can be stopped pretty easily by the president under the railway labor act. If you think the unity of ALPA is going to stop that, I’ll just be nice say you are naive
UnhingedCorgi@reddit
Real power is not just given, for ALPA it comes from being able to shut down airlines overnight. Of course that’s an extreme measure and we’ve all agreed to play by a set of rules. But if those rules are thrown out and we have to resort to brute strength, we do have real power that can’t be shut down unless the president has a few hundred thousand scabs ready.
Not that I’m certain our industry would react so strongly to being hamstrung, we might just roll over. I’d hate to ever have to find out. I just don’t want us to think our collective power is a gift that can be taken at any time.
slay1224@reddit
Yeah you’re naive. There are plenty of pilots waiting to take your job. There is no pilot shortage ALPA has said so itself.
radioref@reddit
I dunno man. Airline pilots are some of the most savage monsters known to man. A group of Delta pilots up against Trump? My money is on the double breasted dickheads… 😂
slay1224@reddit
I’ve been a double breasted dickhead for a while now and I don’t share this sentiment.
radioref@reddit
It’s just a fun figure of speech in aviation pop culture. I’m sure you and I would get along just fine. Meow.
slay1224@reddit
Word
UnhingedCorgi@reddit
… when they said that it wasn’t in the context of a massive strike. And I’m not talking about a single airline going on strike. I mean if it came to it, the entire ALPA group. SWAPA and APA probably too. That’s well over half the issued ATP’s in the USA. I seriously doubt that’s leaves much of a pool left of guys waiting to take my job.
slay1224@reddit
I hope you right, but I’ve been either an ALPA or Teamsters member for nearly 20 years and I really don’t see any unity at all in the organizations. There is so much infighting and dirty shit that goes on that I have little faith. Those that rise to the top are usually the pieces of shit. Anyone who tries to right the ship gets chewed up and thrown out back to the line.
slay1224@reddit
I’ll also add if you show up to any ALPA local meeting and listen to the internal strife you’d be pretty shocked about how un-unified they are.
UnhingedCorgi@reddit
Oh I’m fully aware. But if there was a serious attempt to dissolve our collective bargaining rights, I see that as being pretty fucking unifying real quick.
slay1224@reddit
Hope you’re right. Just think things have change over the years where everyone just cares about their own situation and not the greater good.
UnhingedCorgi@reddit
You’re right about that.
findquasar@reddit
The power to organize, strike, and bargain without fear for retaliation is granted by the NLRB, which Musk (who is going to get some government gig now) has a lawsuit in (along with Bezos) challenging its constitutionality.
Of course, the Supreme Court already said it was constitutional, back in 1937, but this current court doesn’t seem to really care a lot about precedent.
Elios000@reddit
NLRB will almost for sure be overturned.
UnhingedCorgi@reddit
Organizing without retaliation is crucial. That is a very fragile stage for a new union. However an established entity like ALPA would not take this sitting down. If the situation got messy enough I believe we would strike even without protections of the NLRB. I’m not sure what retaliations we would be afraid of if that happened. Jail time? Fines?
Organized labor holds much more power than we realize.
findquasar@reddit
The PATCO strike would like a word.
It’s all just a little bit of history repeating.
UnhingedCorgi@reddit
Yea we definitely need to be paying attention. PATCO sounds like they didn’t have enough walk-out and it was too easy for replacements to be found. As I said elsewhere, I hope we never get near that point, but if we did it would take near 100% unity and belief in our very real power.
Elios000@reddit
Unions are in deep trouble all of them its spelled out in other parts of 2025 they will be union busting at fed level ALL UNIONS
Mountain_Fig_9253@reddit
No, you’re right. Unions across the board will be under attack.
People have absolutely no idea what is coming.
TheDrMonocle@reddit
Well.. half of us do.
As a controller our contract is up for negotiation in 2 years. If Natca lasts that long they'll have less authority than they already do. Not looking forward to the next 4 years.
FailedCriticalSystem@reddit
Yup they are done. NRLB will dismantled and handicap if it stays
DrRichtofen18@reddit (OP)
Probably, but not immediately, a section of the argument against EAS and 1500 hours, is the shortage of pilots and that single pilot ops is inferred to be less safe. "Today, facing a pilot shortage, larger and safer twin-engine planes with two pilots are being phased out of service at smaller airports and replaced by single-engine planes that have only one pilot. This trend could be reversed if copilots were required to have fewer flight hours or could count certified simulator training."
Adorable_Mirror9035@reddit
Yes
3_14lottime@reddit
Doesn't sound right seeing that his brother was a pilot and he seems to have a lot of respect for aviators. As long as there is a good administrator who is able to speak up I bet trump will listen.
thrownehwah@reddit
The moronism of this man is akin to an armless legless man trying to swim. He should steer clear
ShadowAydun@reddit
You're missing the biggest picture. In a recession people have less discretionary spending and there will be a large decrease in paying passengers. Commercial aviation will see a big loss in revenue likely leading to furloughs.
JadedJared@reddit
Your source is not Trump’s agenda. He has, on numerous occasions said publicly that he was nothing to do with Project 2025. Stop the fear mongering.
Bravodelta13@reddit
There were multiple, mainstream news articles with various firsthand accounts that directly contradict his denials.
ducky2000@reddit
"Mainstream news articles" "I'm sure it's all fake, right?" You just answered your own question.
Muggi@reddit
It's the agenda of a not insignificant number of those put in places of power in the bureaucracy; that's the problem. Just like all Presidents, Trump will make a fairly small % of the decisions made during his time in the office.
JadedJared@reddit
Again, more fear mongering. It’s from an DC conservative think tank. Nothing to do with Trump. What you’re referring to is the administration state, managerial class or the “deep state” who already run the government but aren’t the type of conservatives who write Project 2025.
Muggi@reddit
Dude half the people listed as authors on it worked in his administration. Six Cabinet members. Four of his ambassadors.
findquasar@reddit
So if it’s not him, but it’s everyone around him implementing it, do you still get to be right?
JadedJared@reddit
Nope. That’s not “everyone around him.” It’s a group an establishment conservatives that have an idea of how they want to govern. It’s not “Trump’s agenda” so stop calling it that and stop insinuating, falsely that this is our future.
robdabear@reddit
This sub and “the sky is falling,” name a better combo.
Not a fan of the proposals either and some of it genuinely worries me before I even have a foot in the door, but until tangible legislation begins to be discussed in congress, this is all just conjecture at this point, Heritage Foundation document or not.
Fdnyc@reddit
Don’t even try, you’re on Reddit.
planelander@reddit
he said he doesn't support the entirety of Project 2025
greatest lie right there
Elios000@reddit
this heres the thing HE DOESNT NEED TO. all they have do put the bill on the desk
Wolf4980@reddit
I'm no Trump supporter but if these changes allow me to get a PPL with ADHD and OCD I'll be fine with it
Yellowtelephone1@reddit
They will certainty not. You can do that now ask me how I know. This has insurmountable consequences
ComfortablePatient84@reddit
Trump has already said he rejects the so-called Project 2025, and whether you like him or not when Trump says something you can believe him.
The tariff is for select foreign markets where there is a rigged system of slave labor (i.e. the PRC) or tariffs applied to American goods and services applied by same.
In terms of general aviation and FAA foot dragging, the advent of ADS-B was supposed to usher in the open skies principle, where pilots use the FIS-B technology to deconflict from other aircraft while IMC, and instrument flight clearances were issued by datalink, including options over the internet. Like most everything else, the FAA has failed to follow through on leveraging these proven technologies.
Doing this would allow a truly modern ATC to issue IFR clearances on the ground via datalink systems, eliminating the need for ground controllers currently performing this service, or in cases where they don't exist, using the approach sector controllers to issue the clearances, which is a time consuming effort for them.
A modern system could effectively eliminate enroute sector controllers, and use the existing human controllers to work the busier approach sectors. Moreover, regardless of how busy or remote the airport, provided there is adequate internet access, pilots could activate their filed IFR plans while sitting on the hammerhead, and takeoff once issued via datalink.
This would greatly reduce confusion given that the routing could be automatically entered into your WAAS navigators and you're off and running. Of course, this system would require the use of ADS-B In/Out. But, frankly, it's time that technology become universal anyway.
West_Read_8698@reddit
How many airlines and manufacturers donated to his campaign? I wonder what that could mean
DrRichtofen18@reddit (OP)
It means the airlines are salivating at the chance to get (even more) priority ATC service. Think of the money that ATC could make taking bids on the fastest flow times, and it isn't going to be John Smith in a Cherokee six bidding. It would be one more tool for legacies to snuff out any competing airline in their fortress hubs.
FailedCriticalSystem@reddit
That is an interesting point of view. So not only is atc charging their services, they are also fast passing it to the highest bidder.
causal_friday@reddit
Guessing his agenda doesn't include me not waiting 5 years for a medical because I'm trans ;)
Samtulp6@reddit
Serious question, but how does you being trans affect your medical eligibility?
causal_friday@reddit
The current guidance is to approve after 5 years of stable hormone treatment. (Upgraded from automatic rejection a few years ago.)
RavenholdIV@reddit
5 years? Damn. Good thing I only just started my flying journey. That's ass
Samtulp6@reddit
I’m sorry for my ignorance, I’m not familiar with hormone treatment, but is there an actual reason for this?
Does the hormone treatment cause mood swings, lapses in concentration or focus, or other things which would be considered valid reasons?
I assume it does, but what is your personal experience?
causal_friday@reddit
I don't have any mood swings. I think that being trans is co-morbid with a lot of other things like depression and autism, so they're just being extra cautious.
IJNShiroyuki@reddit
Most trans have depression or anxiety history…
Samtulp6@reddit
That is already a reason for rejection or postponement whether you are trans or not. Same can be said for orphans, widows or basically any 21 year old just out of high school.
I’m trying to understand the reason behind this being trans specific
IJNShiroyuki@reddit
Yeah that’s how it works. You asked a question and I answered it. Not because someone is trans but more because 99% trans people suffer from some kind of mental health issue.
coolkirk1701@reddit
No his agenda probably involves denying you a medical because you’re trans. Best of luck.
SeeMarkFly@reddit
Privatizing profits and socializing losses.
ryancrazy1@reddit
Sorry Florida. You guys get the TFRs back. Love Philly.
TheRealGmalenko@reddit
Every weekend. Glad it's over
Yellowtelephone1@reddit
it was fucking brutal. Go birds.
Elios000@reddit
Single pilot aircraft are coming... they will bust the unions and GOP think mental health is woke... soo there you go
Thrasher678@reddit
Leave the paint job on Air Force One alone!!
Thestimp2@reddit
Imagine the FAA as a business that needs to cost cut to reach margins like a normal business to be "profitable".
Vivid-Razzmatazz9034@reddit
This isn’t trumps agenda, it’s project 2025 which he’s publicly said doesn’t represent his policies. Not a trump supporter by any means, but I wouldn’t be too worried about that.
320sim@reddit
And Trump is famously truthful /s
49Flyer@reddit
Project 2025 is not Trump's agenda.
320sim@reddit
But it is the agenda of his bureaucracy and all the people he’ll bring in. Like the people making things happen while the president plays golf
radioref@reddit
Not yet
jeremiah1142@reddit
Under the “corporatization” proposal in his first term, GA would have got the short end of the stick. Mainline carriers would have got the power. Doubt it will be much different this time around.
fumo7887@reddit
Hope you’re not wagering too much on that House result…
jeremiah1142@reddit
I was fully expecting a complete GOP win as of last night.
Suspicious-Ad-4768@reddit
This isn’t trumps agenda, it’s project 2025 which he’s publicly said doesn’t represent his policies.
cackmang@reddit
I wish I was competitive at 1500. SE turbine time and SE TPIC mean jack in this hiring market. I think lowering the time requirement will help some people get hired, but until the market opens up, they are going to need to stick to their jobs and build more time.
320sim@reddit
They’ll just pay entry level pilots less but it’s competitive enough that they’ll still only hire people with at least 1500
andrewclarkson@reddit
It’s kind of hard to evaluate any of this when there’s no bill or proposal before Congress and therefore no real details to examine.
Project 2025 isn’t actually Trumps agenda more of a wish list from an independent conservative organization. While it might inform his inner circle there’s no telling what they may actually do. It’s entirely possible they make so substantive changes at all.
Da40pilot737@reddit
Project 2025😂
poohead150@reddit
hAvE you eVeR hEaRd oF pRoJeCt 2o25?!?!?!?!
srv340mike@reddit
This is literally one of the worst ideas I've ever seen put to words.
DrRichtofen18@reddit (OP)
If we move fast and break things we learn and get safer eventually, like Elon is doing with rockets. Those tests never fail spectacularly and would be safe to try with 121 airlines! /s
sweet_s8n@reddit
Project 2025 is NOT trumps agenda. How maby yimes does he have to say it is not his agenda for you to stop peddling?
RaidenMonster@reddit
Trump says “Project 2025 isn’t my agenda. I had no part in writing that, haven’t even looked at it.”
Morons on the internet: HERE IS HIS AGENDA!!!!!
slay1224@reddit
Because he a useful idiot that has no policy or agenda. He’s never read or written any policy he’s tried to pass. He is functionally illiterate. He’ll say anything to get elected and stay in power. If he thought his chances of staying in power were greater on the democratic side he would. The man has no ideology except money and his own personal wellbeing.
Samtulp6@reddit
russia also said they preferred Harris over Trump. Is that also something you believe?
Jordan51104@reddit
the founder of the heritage project (which as you may know, made the project 2025 book) wanted jd vance to be picked as VP because he was their best chance of having that policy implemented
ChicagoPilot@reddit
Well his advisory team is made up of many of the authors of Project 2025, so it shouldn't be too surprising that people are still nervous than some parts of Project 2025 might be implemented. Further, Trump isn't exactly a truthful individual, so again, it really shouldn't be surprising that people aren't keen to take him at his word.
flying_wrenches@reddit
It’s important we try to avoid falling for misinformation or flat out disinformation.
For example, Trump is against project 2025. This is something pushed by his opposing candidate (Kamala)
Also, the tariff is for international imports. To my knowledge, Boeing field in Washington is not an international destination. Same with Alabama for Airbus.
If you’re buying a mirage 2000 from France on the other hand. you’ll probably have to pay more taxes.
GeharginKhan@reddit
Tariffs are on everything that comes into the country (at least that's what's been promised). Every piece of metal, every circuit board, every seat cushion in an airplane that comes from outside the US (which is probably a very high number of parts) gets X% more expensive. And every supplier in the US gets to raise their prices X% and still be competitive. Tariffs will make things more expensive. They may encourage manufacturers to buy from US vendors, but the consumer gets the short end of the stick. A trade war isn't gonna bring back the heyday of general aviation where anyone could afford a 172 on a middle class salary.
flying_wrenches@reddit
Definitely not,
But it seems to be aimed towards companies exporting jobs and not companies where their product is only produced in 2 locations outside the USA.
Could be great, or it could be a catastrophe if it’s done like you said.
GeharginKhan@reddit
"Like I said" is just the absolute basics of how tariffs work.
DrRichtofen18@reddit (OP)
The final assembly of the 787 may be in the US. But it was a global project with major components being made in Japan, Italy, Korea, France, Sweden, India, and the UK, which would be imported parts. A350s are still only built in France, E175s in Brazil, Bombardier in Canada, etc.
flying_wrenches@reddit
I did not consider that part, thank you for explaining.
Hopefully exceptions are made instead of a blanket tariff.
BrosenkranzKeef@reddit
Probably 80% of the people in this forum voted the guy and besides that I’ve really got nothing to add. They wanted this. Most of the captains I fly with wanted this, apparently.
w1sconsinjohn@reddit
Potential cuts to NOAA has me concerned with aviationweather.gov as well. Site just got a new skin that I really get a lot of good info from.
Trickawesome@reddit
NOAA is a lot bigger than just AWC... NESDIS (where all wx satellite information in the US is generated from), NMFS, NOS, OAR, and the NWS (and its not just efb's that get their data from the NWS, everyone does, every weather service [even private ones] uses data that originates from the NWS) are all suborganizations of NOAA. cuts to NOAA, in any capacity would be disastrous, not just for aviation, or even just the U.S., but the world as a whole.
photoinebriation@reddit
Basically every aviation weather product we use (official or otherwise) is based on observations or models from NOAA. Even ECMWF are ground truthed on NOAA data for North America.
yawara25@reddit
I still like the old version better to be honest
findquasar@reddit
Yeah, the winding down of NOAA’s climate mission and handing weather over to the AccuWeather guy so they can charge for it isn’t something I am looking forward to, either.
BrtFrkwr@reddit
The agenda of business is to provide the minimum of goods or services for the maximum of money. The purpose of government should be to provide the maximum benefit to the public for the minimum money. A direct contradiction. Those who tell you government should be operated as a business are looking to make money off the taxpayer.
card_shart@reddit
Yeah, scrolling down was not a good idea.
ApoTHICCary@reddit
Maybe the guy who bankrupted his airline should stay out of airline and FAA affairs. Sounds like he’s salty and trying make moves that would be advantageous to shareholders who want a larger bite out of the pie.
natbornk@reddit
Bunch of pissed off liberals in here. Downvote me to the center of the earth, I don’t care. You, and aviation, will survive the next 4 years- didn’t come here to listen to your take on politics
DrRichtofen18@reddit (OP)
Aviation will survive, it's more of an issue of increasing the cost of aviation, and keeping the skies open to the public and not in the control of a for-profit controlling company.
natbornk@reddit
Welcome to the US government- everything is about money. I think I’ll enjoy lower costs of housing, groceries, and gas. We’re speculating that this leader or that leader might change nothing, one thing, a couple things, or all of the things on this list- I’ll believe it when I see it. Think bigger picture here- I don’t want “men” in the women’s bathroom with my daughter.
TheDrMonocle@reddit
Haha man you'll be really disappointed when you learn he can't just flip a switch to make it cheaper, and many of his policies will indirectly (and directly) lead to higher prices. Good luck bro. I hope I'm wrong, but if I'm not you deserve everything that's coming.
Similar-Contract-725@reddit
Chill
grant0208@reddit
So, serious question. If the US devolves its aviation into a cost-saving, profit-driven business model. Is there anywhere left in the world where getting into flying - whether for career or pleasure - is going to be safe and well-structured like the current system?
bottomfeeder52@reddit
no
IJNShiroyuki@reddit
And service fking sucks!
znavy264@reddit
"We shouldn't fix what ain't broke."
This is where I disagree as we have all seen flaws with how ATC operates. The biggest issue is lack of manpower combined with extreme multitasking. There needs to be a better means of managing increased air traffic and decreased ATC manpower.
AnActualSquirrel@reddit
Some of these horrible Class D contract tower fifedoms are more than enough justification to not privatize ATC
DataGOGO@reddit
you linked to something that is absolutely not Trump's agenda.
LocalSpaceAstronaut@reddit
Project 2025 is absolutely his agenda
Red_Bengal_Cyclone@reddit
Not in the slightest, he's publicly distanced himself from it and highlighted his own policy priorities
TheDrMonocle@reddit
Wow he distanced himself from something that wasn't popular with his own base! What a shock! Doesn't mean they aren't going to try.
fighterpilot248@reddit
Yeah right... Just like how he "didn't know" Epstein.
Give me a break...
findquasar@reddit
Musk and especially Vance are Theil’s guys, so look at who the VP is and who Trump plans on appointing.
Both of them are supported by (Vance) or combined forces with (Musk) Peter Theil and the Heritage Foundation.
It’s too late now, but don’t be surprised if they begin to implement its policies. Then you can be correct that it isn’t Trump.
It’s everyone else around him, just like it was during his first presidency while he was out golfing.
FunBasket2588@reddit
If he were distanced, you would not feel the need to say "publicly distanced". You negated your own point. But I'm sure you won't understand that either.
fatmanyolo@reddit
Remind me to come back to see how poorly this aged in a year. The fact that people buy into the “NUH UH HE SAID IT WASNT HIM, JUST HIS ADVISORS” is asinine.
LocalSpaceAstronaut@reddit
Oh yes, because Trump is the bastion of truth. Almost every single advisor that worked to create the policy plan worked in his administration previously, and he is still actively working with some of them now. You will be sorely mistaken.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/republicans-celebrate-project-2025-trump-win-1235155322/
ZuluSierra14@reddit
This is his agenda. Project 2025 lays it out. They tried the first time. You think flying is expensive now just you wait.
jeremiah1142@reddit
This has already been attempted. Where were you during the first term?
findquasar@reddit
This is going to be a busy few years for r/LeopardsAteMyFace
findquasar@reddit
Trump planned to privatize ATC during his first term.
Own-Ice5231@reddit
Kevin Robert’s wrote this, totally right.
AdventurousScore3937@reddit
I suspect his desires to reform the FAA also have to do, at least in part, with the fact that it was the Air traffic controllers in the New York center in 2017ish that forced the end of his 35-day Government Shutdown tantrum over the budget, when they started calling out sick, and brought massive delays to air travel.
Trump tends to do things borne out of grudges rather than any real policy based on bringing about efficiency.
Anphsn@reddit
Delete. Enough politics
trillhoosier@reddit
In case you’re new here: “Politics” is the reason why we all are as safe as we are, or are not (FEDERAL Aviation Administration); and regulates (FEDERAL Aviation Regulations) all laws that we abide by. Get comfortable.
waveslikemoses@reddit
Ehhh I’m not worried. He’s said a lot of things that never got passed. I’ll believe it when I see it.
throwaway5757_@reddit
I’m a Trump supporter but I didn’t realize this. This is a topic I strongly disagree with him on, interesting!
throwaway5757_@reddit
To everyone downvoting: womp womp. Trump is your prez lets goooooo
findquasar@reddit
Write your representatives and senators, then, please.
dksyndicate@reddit
lol, wait until you see what his tariff plan is going to do to your cost of living!
ZuluSierra14@reddit
His people wrote it. It was his plan all along. You have GOP operatives now joking “the election over and P2025 is actually the plan lol”
He will gut aviation in the US because right now, we controllers are a service. They want it to be a for profit entity. Flying just got a lot more expensive for all the little guys.
davidc4l@reddit
In 4 years? I doubt he would do any changes.
HighVelocitySloth@reddit
Suddenly we think someone can make something happen quickly with the FAA?
KehreAzerith@reddit
He's gonna realize the FAA moves like a snail on tranquilizers, get bored and move to a different policy area outside of aviation.
jaegerbombed@reddit
This is one of the many reasons why.
Sspmd11@reddit
Tariff would also affect trade, hence cargo and business travel. It would reduce sales of US aircraft abroad as well.
BigFatAbacus@reddit
If you want to know just how poorly privatising ATC ends up, have a look at the way NATS runs in the UK.
fender1878@reddit
I'm not sure how many times people have to say Project 2025 isn't Trump's "agenda." I think at this point, people want to just be willfully ignorant because it helps them fear monger.
eagleace21@reddit
Mods please remove this, has no evidence and is just political fear mongering.
jeegsburger@reddit
How many times do people need to be told Project 2025 is not Trump’s platform?
Oh shoot, I forgot this is Reddit.
nkydeerguy@reddit
Really we’re bringing Project 2025 into this sub? I can usually count on this sub to not be a “sky is falling” place.
Trump who is very involved in aviation and who has repeatedly denounced Project 2025 is unlikely to do any of those things.
Let’s set the tin foil hats aside and take a deep breath here.
whattheFAC85@reddit
Yeah…Because we all know that trump loves to tell the truth and not make shit up for his own personal gain.
ZuluSierra14@reddit
His people wrote it. It was his plan all along. You have GOP operatives now joking “the election over and P2025 is actually the plan lol”
He will gut aviation in the US because right now, we controllers are a service. They want it to be a for profit entity. Flying just got a lot more expensive for all the little guys.
findquasar@reddit
Buddy, look at who he wants to appoint and their affiliations.
Trump will be golfing, like he did for 1/4 of his first presidency. Who do you think is going to be doing this?
robdabear@reddit
It’s Reddit dude
gingerbeardman419@reddit
Just when I thought I could escape politics in the flying sub reddit!
A320neo@reddit
You may not give a shit about politics but politics definitely gives a shit about you
puckerfactory@reddit
Yea, life is political
otterbarks@reddit
Have you hung around other pilots before? Most of them can't stop talking about politics. :P
TaliyahPiper@reddit
Look at Canada where ATC is funded almost exclusively on fees and ticket prices are sky high as a result
GeneratedUserHandle@reddit
Project 2025 is not Pres-elect Trump’s agenda.
Muggi@reddit
The issue is it IS the agenda of a large % of the people he'll be hiring. A President comes with a large bureaucracy, and THAT is where the vast majority of the decisions are made.
PizzaRollsAndTakis@reddit
Correct. Has nothing to do with that organization.
N23EX@reddit
I don’t like these ideas.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
With Trump set to return to office in 2025, his agenda includes another attempt to reform the FAA and privatize air traffic control after trying to do so in his first term. Outlined from his agenda:
While most of us agree that the FAA could use some reforms (Medical, unleaded fuels, DPEs), in my opinion, privatization of ATC would be a massive hit to GA, worsen safety across the board, and the removal of the 1,500-hour rule would tank pay while applicants would still need around 1,500 to be competitive. The US has the most robust aviation system in the world, we shouldn't fix what ain't broke.
Not even mentioned yet is the plan for a 10-20% tariff which would drive up the cost of acquiring new aircraft from any manufacturer.
Please downvote this comment until it collapses.
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