checkride refund
Posted by sansj73@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 92 comments
hey all! I have a weird scenario.
In June 2024 I hired a DPE for my PPL checkride. It cost me $800. We got through the oral exam and discontinued due to weather (high winds). The flight portion was rescheduled for the following week.
Here is where things take a twist....
The day before the flight test - the DPE was suspended by the FAA. He cancelled our flight test (obviously). I waited a few weeks to see if he could straighten things out with the FAA. After several weeks - I had to hire another DPE since the discontinuance expires in 60 days. The original DPE is still sustended and I already obtained my PPL through the alternate DPE.
I asked the original DPE for a 50% refund since he was susspended and unable to complete the test - he REFUSED.
I filed a complaint with the FAA - they said they dont have jurisdiction over this type of situation.
I filed a complaint with the attorney generals offfice and they are investigating.
I filed a civil lawsuit against the DPE to push harder for a partial refund.
My question is - do you think I have a claim here and if so - how would you go about obtaining a refund? Am I wrong here? If I just didnt show up - I wouldnt expect a refund. The difference here is that the DPE was not legally able to complete the test...
Advice please - and thank you in advance!
WeekendOk6724@reddit
Small claims. That’s the only route.
Good-Cardiologist121@reddit
Also, name and shame the fucker.
Gwaiwar@reddit
I think the FAA has already done that. And if the guy is the type to get suspended by the FAA I don't think he really even cares about the shaming part.
fhfm@reddit
Is this really worth it though? You’re gonna take a day off work to get $400 back? Just know the guys scum and move on
sincityaviator@reddit
You can sue for up to $10,000 in small claims, if I’m not mistaken. He may as well sue for $5,000 to cover the $400, and all his time spent fighting for it.
21MPH21@reddit
Wtaf! He's a student pilot YES OP should get the $400 (?) back.
Heck, I'd do it out of principal.
fhfm@reddit
To be clear, I absolutely agree he should get his money back. I also absolutely disagree in losing a day’s income to sit in small claims all day to get $400 back. That’s a whole lotta life-energy units for a small payout. I stand by my comment, the guys scum, move on.
DuelingPushkin@reddit
$400/day is more than most people make. That's $50/hr assuming you have to take a full 8 hrs off
21MPH21@reddit
Because student pilots make $400 a day? GTFOH with that logic
TheHidingGoSeeker@reddit
Right! That’s 2 hours of flight time right there
sansj73@reddit (OP)
thank you!
Extra-Necessary3574@reddit
I worked at a flight school and my job was to directly deal with DPE’s and students. I’ve never seen a DPE give a refund no matter what the situation was. Again I’ve delt with many DPE’s and many checkrides, lots of different discontinuances, rechecks and cancellations. Definitely DPE culture, try not to take it too personal. Asking for a refund is offensive to them definitely because of the shortage, they believe their time is gold and they HAVE worked hard to get to their position. Your situation sucks and it’s definitely up to you if you want to try to deal with it legally but just know that it’s very common that DPE’s don’t give refunds no matter the situation. The FAA is also a tough cookie that doesn’t care about its pilots. I know of DPE’s that have been reported and nothing came of it. But I wonder why your DPE was suspended by the FAA?
EliteEthos@reddit
That would be a private party transaction. You need to take him to small claims court.
sansj73@reddit (OP)
I did file a complaint - so we will see. Thanks so much for the reply!
EliteEthos@reddit
A civil complaint with a courthouse?
sansj73@reddit (OP)
yep = that is in motion.
throwaway5757_@reddit
Small claims is your only option realistically. You need to ask yourself is it worth it? To some the answer is yes to some the answer is no. If it is worth it, then go for it.
HLSparta@reddit
If we assume that OP sues for $400 and it takes them 3 hours to sue, then that is approximately $130/hr OP is getting. ($260/hr if they go for the full $800) Unless OP is a doctor or something, that is good pay.
I'm not quite sure how long small claims court takes, but 3 or less hours sounds reasonable.
sansj73@reddit (OP)
thank you!
Yesthisisme50@reddit
Dude you’re not getting that money back lol
sansj73@reddit (OP)
can you elaborate? I appreciate your response - any extra feedback is appreciated. are DPE just heartless slugs?
Yesthisisme50@reddit
There’s an old post on this subreddit where a DPE and an applicant met up to start the checkride.
The applicant didn’t have ground time logged and so the DPE said they didn’t qualify for the checkride and the DPE still took the money.
The FAA/FSDO doesn’t get involved and the DPE said they charged for their time. Not sure if it went to court but the DPE kept the money.
Infamous_Ad_9115@reddit
Screwed up but not unethical. The DPE booked his/her time and the applicant wasn’t prepared. Every service industry would do this. Not my fault your CFi failed you.
Yesthisisme50@reddit
I’m just stating what happened
We all know if we were the DPE, we would be demanding someone pays us for our time
HLSparta@reddit
That seems like a completely different scenario though. In yours, it is the student's and CFI's fault the checkride wasn't completed. In the OP's scenario there was nothing he could have done to stop the DPE from losing his ability to be a DPE.
LivingOk656@reddit
Batchelder?
Yesthisisme50@reddit
Idk their name
Kdog0073@reddit
Ok, but I feel like there is an entirely different precedent between the student being unqualified, unprepared, and using up the DPE’s time, and the DPE themselves being suspended in the middle of the test.
sansj73@reddit (OP)
geeze - that is screwed up...
ReadyplayerParzival1@reddit
You gave him the money which initiated the checkride. The money is gone. It’s gone if you run out the clock, if you fail somehow, if he gets suspended. You sometimes just have to eat the loss. 800$ is chump change in the world of aviation
CommuterType@reddit
Hard disagree. Drag his ass into small claims court. I guarantee he has another source of income so he's not judgement proof. Those guys saying it's "not worth the hassle" are right, it's not worth HIS hassle. He'll probably settle with you before the appearance date
sansj73@reddit (OP)
Very true - small cost for sure - I guess its just the concept that hits the hardest - i appreciate the repsonse - thank you
LigerSixOne@reddit
He was charging 800-1600 per day, His suspension is hurting him real bad. If you really want to rub his nose in it, send him a note about keeping your fee as a charity from you.
sansj73@reddit (OP)
true - maybe I can write it off as charity. :-)
LigerSixOne@reddit
Ask him to set up a 501c so you can write it off.
sansj73@reddit (OP)
🤣🤣🥰
Yesthisisme50@reddit
Yes they are that way
sansj73@reddit (OP)
So sad :-( Thanks for replying. I appreciate it
thegreatpickwick@reddit
This is what small claims court exists for. Go in. Tell the judge the story. Show your communications. If the DPE doesn’t show up, he will default.
Or listen to “give up” guy over here if you don’t care enough to drive to spend a couple hours downtown.
Yesthisisme50@reddit
Yeah, good luck lol
mkosmo@reddit
Small claims may award him a partial refund. He paid for services not rendered, after all.
Jwylde2@reddit
At this point I would sue him for the full amount. You'll have to take him to small claims court.
sansj73@reddit (OP)
yep - i am - but just for 50%
BillySpacs@reddit
I would’ve asked for half man to man but if it gets to the point of lawsuit I would sue for full under the argument that the DPE wasn’t qualified to be giving a checkride to begin with (considering he got suspended around the time you worked with him)
throwaway5757_@reddit
Sue for the full amount and let the judge settle it for 50% if she so pleases. Sort of like negotiating, start high. I’m assuming the new DPE didn’t offer you a discount, either, did they? Either way, I’d ask for 100% and go in knowing if the judge rules for 50% back, I’d be contempt with that. But I don’t know that I’d voice that during trial. But this is the convo you need to have with a lawyer, not some peanut brained pilot like me.
sansj73@reddit (OP)
i already filed for 50% - should have filed for more - guess Im too honest. the other DPE was amazing and gave me a deal - he felt bad about the situation.
Jwylde2@reddit
It's not about being honest. You gave him the opportunity to refund 50%. He refused. Now you have to file the case in court, which is a burden on you as you have to spend the time required to draft up the paperwork and file it with the court. Plus all of the court fees...you would have been more than right to after 100% and then some.
mkosmo@reddit
The judge will see that you're being reasonable in your request. The oral should have been about half the time required, after all, and he did render that service (even if the checkride didn't go through completion).
sansj73@reddit (OP)
👍👍👍
throwaway5757_@reddit
Might be too late then. Ask your lawyer. If you don’t have one, get one ASAP
iheartrms@reddit
A lawyer will cost him more than the whole $800 he should be fighting for. Small claims is a DIY situation.
throwaway5757_@reddit
Good point. Time for them to brush up on the law!
sansj73@reddit (OP)
thank you
storyinmemo@reddit
I think you have a small claims court case for the whole amount. Make your DPE tell the judge why it should only be half when they were unable to meet the qualifications for the job that was agreed upon. The contract was that the DPE was paid to perform a test and they are unable to do so.
Go amend your complaint to the full amount.
sansj73@reddit (OP)
👍 good point. Thank you
ComfortablePatient84@reddit
Sue for the entire amount. You did not receive the service you paid for, and the DPE violated the written terms of an FAA checkride. He should have provided a follow up to complete the checkride but did not for the reasons you stated.
sansj73@reddit (OP)
👍 agreed
12MileLeftFinal@reddit
Ok I think it’s dumb to spend this much time and brainpower on 400 bucks (more on that later) but if you want to win your 400 bucks in small claims court, you need to ask for all of it back. “He offered a service, wouldn’t deliver, won’t refund” works better than “he offered a service, I said let’s wait to do this later, then he got suspended by the FAA, and now I want half my ride fee back”
This really doesn’t seem like a worthwhile fight. You at best get 800 bucks and you’ve pissed off a DPE by kicking him in the nuts after the FAA fired him. At worst you get nothing and you still have the pissed off DPE angle to consider.
sansj73@reddit (OP)
I agree of the time vs money analysis - but its more about being a decent person. I have already pissed him off - so that ship has sailed :-O - I apprecaite the help and advice - thank you :-)
NoGuidance8609@reddit
I think it’s a mistake to only go for half recourse. I think you should consider asking for full refund. You can always settle for half. If you had known ahead of time that he could only provide half service on your checkride would you have entered the agreement? I doubt it.
sansj73@reddit (OP)
i wonder if I can ammend my complaint... thanks for the advice - I appreacaite it!!!
cazzipropri@reddit
What lawyer agreed to file a lawsuit at $300/hr to recover $400?
Flyboy2020@reddit
What state? Absolutely take him to small claims. You paid for services that were never rendered. Slam dunk, just takes time.
sansj73@reddit (OP)
Pennslyvania
MehCFI@reddit
As others have said small claims is the only option. That being said many states small claims courts just adjudicate who’s right, but they have no power to force payment. Makes it pretty useless often, especially over so little money. Good luck
sansj73@reddit (OP)
Thank you. A judgment would be nice - if I collect or not isn't as important to me.
drumdizzle93@reddit
Small claims. Pay the small fee to file it and then make him pay you back for lost time and the fee as well. Easy peezy.
sansj73@reddit (OP)
Let's hope- thank you
Creative-Grocery2581@reddit
Good luck
sansj73@reddit (OP)
Thank you!
DiamondHndz@reddit
Smh raising a stink over 800 bucks isn’t worth your time. Thats like 2 flights worth of money maybe less depending on what you fly and how long
sansj73@reddit (OP)
Agreed in part. It's just the principal at this point. Not about the money.
ComfortablePatient84@reddit
Your claim would be against the first DPE since he accepted money for a service that was never provided in full. That DPE should have issue an appropriate refund.
sansj73@reddit (OP)
👍
Icy_Necessary3921@reddit
Find him and beat him up. About $800 dollars worth of damage.
SpaceMarine33@reddit
lol rip
PutOptions@reddit
50% is fair. You seem fair. This DPE seems like a POS. Not my experience with my DPE-- awesome dude. Sorry this happened. When you say "FAA" did you contact the FSDO? Could be another (suitable) nail in his DPE coffin.
sansj73@reddit (OP)
Thanks. Fsdo said they don't oversee this type of thing. He didn't "violate" anything.
0621Hertz@reddit
I’ve mentioned this before and I’ll say it again about my DPE.
His checkride costs $400x2. You owe him the other $400 the moment preflight is complete and declare “I find this aircraft airworthy.”
This should be industry standard.
boobooaboo@reddit
You paid him for a checkride. He gave the checkride and you chose to discontinued. He did his duty and earned his pay. Whether you like it or not, he earned his pay on that day. You’re not getting money back.
sansj73@reddit (OP)
Thank you for the reply. 👍
bhalter80@reddit
According to one of my DPEs the FAA actually advises DPEs to only take cash so that candidates can't stop payment and dispute charges if they're not happy with an unsat. Obviously this isn't your situation but goes to show why DPEs get cash
sansj73@reddit (OP)
yep - I heard the same as well.
NoGuidance8609@reddit
Why was the DPE suspended? There is a possibility that he was not qualified to give the checkride and if so you have cause for a full refund. Either way you have a case to recoup half the refund. The question is what will it cost to recoup that and is it worth it. The reasons for his suspension are important to the decision.
sansj73@reddit (OP)
how can i find out why he was suspended? there are rumors out there - but nothing that I can say is fact.
burnheartmusic@reddit
It sucks but you’re not getting that back.
sansj73@reddit (OP)
yeah - i hear ya - but Ill give it a shot. dunno.... Wish me luck
Hydroplazmosis@reddit
You can take him to small claims court. Present your case to the judge and see if they side with you.
Pretty shitty situation. Can always take this to the r/UnethicalLifeProTips subreddit if you're the vengeful type.
sansj73@reddit (OP)
Indeed - thank you :-)
OnToNextStage@reddit
You are absolutely in the right here and that guy is a scumbag.
You’re not seeing that money back still
sansj73@reddit (OP)
Thank you - I apprecaite the response - it does suck - but I will do what I can to get it back or send a message that what he did wasnt right. Thank you :-)
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
hey all! I have a weird scenario.
In June 2024 I hired a DPE for my PPL checkride. It cost me $800. We got through the oral exam and discontinued due to weather (high winds). The flight portion was rescheduled for the following week.
Here is where things take a twist....
The day before the flight test - the DPE was suspended by the FAA. He cancelled our flight test (obviously). I waited a few weeks to see if he could straighten things out with the FAA. After several weeks - I had to hire another DPE since the discontinuance expires in 60 days. The original DPE is still sustended and I already obtained my PPL through the alternate DPE.
I asked the original DPE for a 50% refund since he was susspended and unable to complete the test - he REFUSED.
I filed a complaint with the FAA - they said they dont have jurisdiction over this type of situation.
I filed a complaint with the attorney generals offfice and they are investigating.
I filed a civil lawsuit against the DPE to push harder for a partial refund.
My question is - do you think I have a claim here and if so - how would you go about obtaining a refund? Am I wrong here? If I just didnt show up - I wouldnt expect a refund. The difference here is that the DPE was not legally able to complete the test...
Advice please - and thank you in advance!
Please downvote this comment until it collapses.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. If you have any questions, please contact the mods of this subreddit.