Certification tests need to change across the board

Posted by CrownVicDude@reddit | sysadmin | View on Reddit | 32 comments

Currently trying to get one, 15 years into a successful IT career (I know, very late in the game, but I've talked my way around it so many times in interviews).

Certifications seem to fail to capture the most important aspect of using any application, and that's being able to apply the technology to the business. There is such a huge difference between knowing the technology and being able to use it. OK, so you've memorized the admin section of an app (which is often what cert exams test on), I have a user with xyz request, what's the best way to do it? Massive gap between those two.

Exams should not be multiple choice or true/false. They should all be scenario based. This request came in, execute it in this sbx environment. This will show that you can use the technology, not just memorize facts. I can figure out where a setting is in an app I have very little experience with very quickly, that's not where the valuable skill set is. It's being able to do the job.

I've heard some certs behave this way, but most don't, which is why I've always said most certs are basically useless.

[-]

sitesurfer253@reddit

Microsoft is moving to (or at least expanding into) skills based certification which is great. You complete labs instead of regurgitating exam questions. These are the only type of cert that I would trust.

[-]

VirtualDenzel@reddit

Microsoft is one of the reasons certificates are a joke.

And then they last for a year and you need to redo them?

Biggest joke in the world. I'd rather hire a person with real experience then a bookworm who got hits certs but never uses the tech

[-]

asintado08@reddit

Microsoft Certs are already open book right now, Microsoft Learn. Renewals are almost unlimited tries and open book as well.

Anyone who is using the product on a daily basis should pass it.

[-]

haksaw1962@reddit

Yes. I see all these posts on LinkedIn where they are posting that they just achieved their 24th certificate this year. I ask if they have ever actually worked with the technology.

[-]

sitesurfer253@reddit

Same. Most certs in general just show you can hang onto information long enough to be tested on it. Doesn't prove you can actually do the job.

Just saying it's nice that they are moving to a model that prioritizes working towards a solution rather than memorizing vocabulary/ports/what tier of azure licensing you should tell management to buy.

[-]

VirtualDenzel@reddit

That it correct. But it would be better to convince management to use 365 'partially' . A lot of companies dive in completely and are stuck with high saas costs and almost no chance to egress without spending a yearly budget

Man-e-questions@reddit

Thats how the more difficult Cisco exams get.

nanoatzin@reddit

Certification exams are for HR people and might provide a starting point for a career, but don’t rely on certifications to give you the info you need. For example, ICS2 recommends multifactor is superior to certificate authentication but nobody has defeated a modern certificate while multifactor can be defeated with a key logger and carrier SMS access.

heroik-red@reddit

Certs do great at teaching concepts and frameworks to beginner or intermediate sysadmins. However, if you have been doing this job for a long time, you’ll know and be able to explain stuff that no cert will ever be able to.

SeparateOpening@reddit

I took it earlier in my career, but in my opinion the CCNA exam was a lot more difficult than the CISSP exam I took recently specifically because it had active lab components to solve.

Anyone can memorize concepts and commands, but not everyone can apply it practically.

homelaberator@reddit

If you do the CCNA as part of Cisco Academy type training, you get a lot of hands on alongside the other stuff. It's a very good program for what it gives you. You finish up with a pretty solid understanding of the basics alongside a realistic appreciation of how much you don't know.

Certification exams are the way they are simply because it is practical to do them like this.

It's easier to write multiple choice and drag + drop kind of tests that cover the common core knowledge than it is to write exams that are scenario based and still meaningfully comprehensive.

I'd disagree that they are useless. Outside of the issues with cheating, the popular certifications still do a pretty good job at testing fundamental knowledge and skills. The most value in education is what you do for yourself, though. If you approach it sensibly with an attitude to learn something, and then treat the test as an assessment of what you have learnt and how well, you derive far more benefit than if you treat it as pokemon collecting.

After working in IT for too long, and getting an education whilst doing it, I can see the difference between the people who have that good base knowledge (an understanding of what's actually going on rather than just knowing, in this situation I press this button and check this box) and those that have relied on "experience". Certification can be part of that process of getting a good foundation.

No_Resolution_9252@reddit

I stopped renewing most of my certs and stopped pursuing new ones. MS certs from about 2005 to 2013 were all really good but then all became sales certs.

Only one I carry now is security+ I don't do network work anymore. Once you are established, there isn't as much a need for them.

SinoKast@reddit

I agree, one of the big reasons i don't even renew a lot of my certs is it's just a study fest and i have my own resources inside and outside my industry to keep me abreast of changes in my knowledge base. Scenario based would be solid proof of concept grasp of applying the knowledge, critical thinking, and troubleshooting all angles.

BrokenRatingScheme@reddit

I never want to sit for another Cisco exam as long as I live. I will do CEs until I go crosseyed if it means I don't have to do another one of their atrocious tests.

dflame45@reddit

The problem is that doing it one way works for one company and not the other. How you implement it is so subjective. Why do you think there’s so many snow consultants. You have to test them on the fundamentals, unfortunately, it’s only skin deep.

TigwithIT@reddit

CompTIA+ just obtained by Thoma Brava and Hedgefund house of horrors. That should tell you all you need to know about certs. Welcome to money over actual knowledge.

SWZerbe100@reddit

Yep I got a CompTIA cert and have no plans to renew it, still put it on my resume though 😎

primalsmoke@reddit

I got Microsoft certifications back in 1997, the books were good , really to understand concepts, back then it was the best source to learn from.

When interviewed for a specific job, most of the interview questions where from the book, I told the VP that the answer he was looking for was such and such, but the book was wrong because of such and such. I was cocky because the place was a pre IPO dot com shithole and I was working at a high end place. They matched my pay and I took the job, and that's how I got into the dot com world in 1999.

Moral of the story, whoever is interviewing you may use certification material.

FatBoyStew@reddit

Oh I wholeheartedly agree that MOST certs are useless. We've had several hires that according to their certs should've been amazing, but in reality they didn't know anything really...

Superb_Raccoon@reddit

But I also don't want to hire the guy with 15 years experence... he is expensive!

mrbiggbrain@reddit

You always pay for experience, one way or another.

So true

yoortyyo@reddit

Amazingly Certified or Amazingly Educated has rarely conveyed actual employee awesomeness

A certification just means that someone has been able to read the manual, and has preserverance that's a start, more than a lot of applicants.

As someone who used to hire people, I would still need to know if the applicant can actually think and has the principals that I would need, that's why the interview process is so important.

Then candidates get a exam cram and just pass the test, or just outright lie about the cert.

Helpjuice@reddit

If it is an official certification the only way to pass it should be no open book, and only through hands on competency, no multiple choice or fill in the blank. You literally sit down and do what is being asked of you along with the parameters that must be met at the end of the exam.

Anything else should not be a certification, period all other options do not actually test your capability to do what the exam says you know how to do.

Shrimp_Dock@reddit

I mean, you're kind of late to the game. Certs aren't necessarily for you, unless you're talking about the more advanced ones and those are more applied knowledge. As far as the entry level certs go, they are great for building a foundation and getting some chops using platforms(for the vendor specific ones). From there, people should take the introduction they get with the cert, and with experience refine the how and why to use the technology, and practice building stuff.

ceantuco@reddit

i read the certification books but I never take the tests lol 20+ years in IT

GalacticForest@reddit

I'm the same way. Tests and memorizing things to do quickly under pressure is not my strong feat. I like to learn the material, lab it and apply it in the real world as OP states, which I have been doing for 15+ years as well. Having the experience has landed me my jobs, not an employer caring about certifications. Some people go crazy and get a bunch of certs with no experience and then wonder why they can't land a job

https://www.opengroup.org/

more than a test.

For level 4, it was same format as a PhD, 20 presentation, 40 minutes cross examination.

greendx@reddit

Some certification exams do include scenario based questions often in addition to multiple choice questions.

5141121@reddit

This is why I love the Red Hat exams so much. They're 100% practical, and they test real-world stuff you run into as an admin/engineer.

The RHCE 8 was the toughest exam I've ever sat for, and studying for that dramatically leveled up my skills.