Is it normal for a new job to cancel a prebooked holiday ?
Posted by SherbertSimple7350@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 73 comments
Hello guys I'm starting job with a new employer. Firstly they asked for immediate start which i agreed to as they said they had other candidates and required soon start. So I had to cancel my own 5 day holiday to start.
I let them know I have a 2 week holiday in December and the manager said 2 weeks in a shocked tone and then asked if I could reduce it to a week. In which I said ok . I'm only new to UK and don't know how these policies work ..I feel regret now..Is this normal?
SiteRelevant98@reddit
get out massive red flag
HeartyBeast@reddit
Absolutely not normal.
bucketofardvarks@reddit
The fact that your start date availability appeared to be the deciding factor on if they hired you or another candidate was the first red flag. At that point they should be selling the job to you and hoping you are still interested, not trying to intimidate and bully you into accepting and starting asap
Artistic_Data9398@reddit
Sounds like the job need a quick start and to commit. Taking 2 weeks off out of the next 6 would suck for them. They've offered you the job and would have to honour the 2 weeks and can only request that you remove or reduce it. Go on your holiday. Fuck em
Mr-Incy@reddit
Unless they asked you in the interview about any prebooked holiday then it shouldn't come as a surprise that you tell them you have prebooked holiday when they offer you the job, and shouldn't affect you in a negative way.
As someone who carries out interviews, having prebooked holiday has no bearing on whether I would offer them the job, I am considering their skills, attitude and all the other things that would make them suitable for the role, and it isn't a question I would typically ask during the interview stage.
We honour prebooked holiday, we are hiring to fill a vacant position and if we don't fill that position it will be vacant at the time of prebooked holiday anyway.
I do know of people who have been offered a role in higher positions, where they may be the person who is managing part or all of the process, to consider changing or reducing prebooked holiday if it will affect that particular process, but if they can't then it hasn't been a deal breaker.
We employ quite a few people from other countries and even though we have rules about how many people can take holiday at any time, like most places, we know that a lot of people want to spend Christmas with their families, so a two week holiday for someone that will be going to their home country isn't all that surprising.
We do tell everyone that when it comes to taking holiday over the Christmas period it needs to be done fairly and everyone needs to take it in turns, this is to prevent the same person trying to prebook holiday every Christmas and blocking others from being able to 'take their turn'.
Serious_Escape_5438@reddit
Depends on the kind of job surely. If you get someone interviewing to be a Santa's elf in a grotto and they say they're away all of December you're not going to employ them presumably. Obviously that's an extreme example but some jobs you do need to be available for certain times.
Mr-Incy@reddit
I am fairly certain that someone who has holiday booked over Christmas wouldn't be applying for a job that is only over Christmas, unless they are thinking of being a Santa's elf and that is why they have booked the holiday.
Almost all jobs require people to be available at certain times, typically when they are rostered to work.
An employer can't expect a new hire to drop any plans they have already made, and possibly paid for, because it will affect the operation, the operation is already affected otherwise you wouldn't be hiring.
If it is that critical to have the person you have hired there at the that specific time, then maybe the person who hired them needs to step in and support.
Serious_Escape_5438@reddit
Well OP applied for a job in retail with a holiday booked over Christmas, their busiest time. If you're hiring for a position it's because you need someone to be there to do the job, especially at busy times, normally to cover someone who's left or leaving. Retail can't just have someone step in, you specifically need someone physically there and the person hiring can't work seven days a week.
Not all jobs are like corporate offices, some really do require the physical presence of a minimum number of people. Retail pharmacy is not like a huge office, there might only be three people on the team and they have to carefully coordinate their leave. What if the people already working there also have personal plans for Christmas? Who cancels? Do they just close because everyone already has plans?
Mr-Incy@reddit
I work in manufacturing, I fully understand the need for people to be physically there.
When you have a vacancy you still need to cover that position while going through the hiring process.
Obviously you are filling the vacancy to prevent the ongoing reliance and cost of other people working overtime to cover but if are not going to hire someone based on whether they have prebooked holiday or not, it shows how much you don't care about hiring the right person for the job.
Serious_Escape_5438@reddit
In a small team they might be hiring in advance for when a person leaves, when I worked in a small retail team we always did that. As soon as someone gave notice we looked for someone new, because it wasn't really possible to cover for an employee being absent for an extended period. I'd think most employers don't wait until the person has left to start looking. And we had a few very specific busy periods where we absolutely all had to be available. One of the criteria for the right person for the job was being available to cover those periods in a very seasonal field of work.
Mr-Incy@reddit
We do the same, but sometimes the recruitment process takes longer than expected and you have to be prepared to deal with that.
I manage a lot of people across 6 different teams, I fully understand how difficult it can be when you have any shortfall in numbers.
Serious_Escape_5438@reddit
Ok, but OP was specifically asked to start soon because presumably they need someone right now. They had other candidates, they don't need to deal with it.
Mr-Incy@reddit
It doesn't look like the OP was asked in the interview process if they had any prebooked holiday.
As I put though, if having prebooked holiday is a deal breaker to having the right candidate for the role, then it shows the person hiring doesn't care about having the right person for the role and are just looking for anyone to fill the gap. That is a major red flag.
IAM_THE_LIZARD_QUEEN@reddit
I feel like you're missing the part where it's a retail job.
thetommyfilthee@reddit
Its completely unreasonable.
They should have asked you at the interview if it was such an issue for them.
If that was me and thats how they're going to treat a new starter, I'd be very concerned with how my holiday requests will go in the future. And being as they only two reasons I go to work are to get paid and have time off, I'd probably exercise my rights withina probation period and tell them I don't think this going to work out.
SherbertSimple7350@reddit (OP)
I am getting a lot of mixed answers so not sure what to follow. The thing is I felt as tho it was my fault for not mentioning but they didn't ask. So who's responsibility would that be ? . Also I agreed to cut it down to one week after he seemed shocked. I don't know how to proceed from here..what should I tell them?
IAM_THE_LIZARD_QUEEN@reddit
You're getting mixed responses because the post doesn't specify it's a retail job, so some people are assuming it's like a professional/office based role, and others are giving the answer that applies to retail.
If you told them in the interview process that you needed two weeks off in December, they maybe never would have even offered you the job.
A lot of retail companies here have total bans on taking any holiday in December, and certainly wouldn't let someone have 2 weeks. My last company rejected people every year because they said they needed time off at Christmas and it was non-negotiable.
As for "responsibility", legally speaking, there isn't any. They're not obliged to honour holiday requests - most do - but they don't have to, they don't have to ask if you have any holidays coming up either.
For future reference, if it's important to you, you should always mention it during the interview stages. As I said, most companies will honour the requests where they can, but needs of the business may win out.
RekallQuaid@reddit
Get a new job.
pronoobmage@reddit
In my opinion it is understandable if they are shocked if you start a new job with 2 booked holidays and 3 weeks off in (two months of) probation time.
Totally valid request from the employer.
SherbertSimple7350@reddit (OP)
No so I didn't them about the initial 5 day holiday. I said I'd cancel it myself to start with them immediately. I only mentioned I had my 2 weeks upcoming holiday in December (so only 1 holiday) and he was shocked and asked if I could reduce it to 1 week.
pronoobmage@reddit
I totally get it. But you didn't cancel on your own. You employer asked you to do that if you want the job because they have other candidates, you wrote that. So you generated a tiny red flag there and then you shocked him/her with another 2 weeks.
Actually it is a nice move asking you to reduce your holiday if you can, not just saying oh that's not gonna work, because that happens too. First job in UK, or first jobb ever? (just asking it because booked holidays always a struggle for an employer when you start a job in all Europe)
SherbertSimple7350@reddit (OP)
Idk I maybe I explained poorly but I never mentioned the first holiday I have which is next week for 5 days. I kept it to myself and said I'd take the offer so as to start immediately. So the employer is only aware of the 2 weeks upcoming December holiday which I told him after the job offer but to be fair they never asked me anything about it and I only got it approved with my current employee last week. So that was after my offer. Anyhow I don't know if it's still OK to proceed with the new job or is it a bad sighn?
cyberllama@reddit
Why are you getting holiday approved with your current employer when you're going to a new job? Honestly, you've gone about this completely the wrong way. You should have told them before the offer. It's not on them to ask if you need them to do you a favour by honouring it, it's on you. It's a bad sign for your manager that you've dropped this on them. On what earth did you think an unexpected absence of 2 weeks would be no big deal at the busiest time of year for retail?
Saule_pine@reddit
Because sometimes people don’t get the job they interviewed for…?! Also sometimes it just happens that you interview and get offered a new job around the same time that you have holiday. It happens! Have you seen the UK job market? The idea that you have to pacify the needs to the employer over and above what your current circumstances are is such an odd way mentality and speaks volumes of how terrible the UK work life balance is.
cyberllama@reddit
This was after they had the offer. My point was more around why they keep bringing it up as if it has any bearing on why they didn't tell the new employer sooner. Most places do honour existing commitments but the story we got from OP is misleading. This is a retail job, notoriously busy in December and they usually don't allow leave in November/December. It's pretty obvious from the post that they wouldn't have hired if they'd known about this holiday OP chose not to mention and would have gone with another candidate.
How about the work-life balance for the other employees who would have to cover instead? How do you think you'd feel if you were told you can't have any time off but the newbie is getting a fortnight off so you'll be working extra hours as well? The manager hasn't been unkind to OP and is trying to find a compromise to make it work, even though they've been put in a tight spot. Plenty of others would have just said no and would either be looking into whether it's less hassle to try and withdraw the job offer and hire someone else at short notice or keep OP on over the Christmas rush and then fall their probation in the new year. I'll probably get downvoted to oblivion for saying that but that's the reality of it. The only thing that might keep them in a job is that the manager has already shown they're decent by trying to work something out over this holiday fiasco when they don't have to.
Anyone telling OP they haven't done anything wrong is setting them up to fail. They seem naive at best and need to learn to avoid creating situations like this.
pronoobmage@reddit
Or I misread it, sorry! If you have a prebooked holiday it is always good to tell them as soon as you can, but definitely should tell them when you get the offer just to make everything clear and avoid situations like this. They probably planned everything and your holiday just "messed up" the plan.
I'm not saying it is the best move from the employer but not a deal-breaker, at least for me.
But you'll have probably 3 months of probation time to find out if the attitude is really bad or just an unlucky situation.
AdAffectionate2418@reddit
Honestly I don't think it's a bad sign, but it is a bit of an HR/admin nightmare for them (depending on how the company is set up). Assuming you get circa 30days AL a year, you'll only have accrued 5 days by the end of Dec. 10 days would mean payroll deductions which can be peculiarly difficult for some companies to do properly.
If you'd told them before they might have been able to put it into the contract etc for this year, but the hiring manager likely didn't have much leverage left after coming to you with the offer.
I would view it as bureaucracy, rather than a red flag tbh
GreeceReece@reddit
It’s definitely not totally valid. You’ve only worked for terrible employers. Prebooked holidays have always been honoured by any employer I’ve had and is generally the norm
Historical-Issue-759@reddit
The OP told the employer after accepting the job and The job is in retail when December is by far the busiest time of year. It’s totally reasonable that this employer would be put out by this info coming to them after acceptance.
alexdelp1er0@reddit
Just because they've always been honoured doesn't mean this isn't valid
pronoobmage@reddit
I didn't say prebooked holidays are not honoured just the amount of them can be problematic in a short period of time. I don't really get it why do you twist and downvote my comment!?
Prolapse94@reddit
They tend to ask at the interview stage about any pre-booked holidays and these aren't normally held against you and are honoured. Atleast in my case
SherbertSimple7350@reddit (OP)
They never asked so I mentioned it after they offered the job to which the manager seemed shocked and asked if I could reduce it for one week..I'm not sure if that's normal
TheFirstMinister@reddit
You should have disclosed your holiday during the interview process. Be thankful they haven't rescinded the offer and gone with another candidate.
ubiquitous_uk@reddit
In retail, its normally in your contract that you can't take any holiday in November or December.
critterwol@reddit
He'll be shocked because December is busy time for retail.
Scotge@reddit
Laughs in nhs
codechris@reddit
No that is fucking awful of them
ukheather@reddit
Depends. If you told them during the interview process, they should have honoured it when giving you the job. But if you said afterwards, they are in their right to decline the holiday.
cbaotl@reddit
Did you tell them at the interview process, or prior to accepting the job? If so and they still chose to hire you then they should honour that, and if they don’t then it should be a major red flag for them as employers.
SherbertSimple7350@reddit (OP)
So I told them after the interview and when they offered the job as it still wasn't approved by My current job until last week. So he then asked if I could reduce it to 1 week
cbaotl@reddit
Whilst it is annoying, I do think as you told them after the interview and after the job offer they do have the right to negotiate it pill the offer if it doesn’t work for them, as it is brand new information they didn’t know when they offered you the job.
I still believe it’s a bit of a red flag though - 2 weeks is a standard enough holiday length, and unless someone very specific needs to train you it is odd that it’s a problem.
Icy-Revolution1706@reddit
2 weeks leave at Christmas is not standard at all!
Nine_Eye_Ron@reddit
For office work it is, I usually have 2 weeks off over Xmas and have done for many years. This will be the first for a while I only take a week and a couple days!
mh1191@reddit
For office-based roles, a lot of people have one week enforced (office is closed) and then top it up to 2 weeks.
If your A/L year ends on 31 Dec, I've know a lot of people who take 3+ weeks off so they don't lose holiday. But I've never had that much left that late on.
cyberllama@reddit
It's retail.
ubiquitous_uk@reddit
Depends on the job, Generally the construction industry shuts down over Christmas so you get 2 weeks off while only taking 5/6 days holiday.
SherbertSimple7350@reddit (OP)
Yes I thought it is my fault as maybe I should have said but to be fair they never asked. They only asked if I was available immediately to start. Them when he said can I make it a week I said ok. I'm not really sure what I should do now..
Friendly_Stand_5138@reddit
Sounds like a pretty sticky situation but personally, there’s no way I’d just cancel my holiday bcos of work haha but all depends on your financial situation I guess. That said, you could always sell your holiday online (facebook stuff for sale in your area, market place, ask friends n family) pretty sure through all the holiday websites, you can change the names to different people. Not fully sure though.
Justan0therthrow4way@reddit
Nah This isn’t normal. You’ve said you had a 2 week holiday bookend in December when you joined. They should honour this. Unless it’s a bar or restaurant. I’d be asking to compromise with a 5 day holiday and 3 days work from the road.
jlb8@reddit
If the job is a Christmas temp, maybe that would be fair enough. Otherwise tell them to get to fuck.
BlueTrin2020@reddit
No it’s not normal, you are being trampled
Historical-Issue-759@reddit
Retail job with 2 weeks of holidays booked during December. Also were not notified until after the OP took the job.
It’s a silly situation the OP has engineered here
markhewitt1978@reddit
No it is not normal. Work places, for the most part, understand that people have lives and will have holidays booked that can't be cancelled and you aren't expected to put your personal life on hold because you've changed jobs.
Historical-Issue-759@reddit
It’s a job in retail. The 2 week holiday is in December. They didn’t tell the company until AFTER being hired.
It’s a terrible scenario for the company
DeadlyTeaParty@reddit
No, you should get that holiday as you had booked it before starting the job.
Because I had a holiday booked before I started my current job and they had to give me the time off regardless.
They aren't allowed to do that, take pre-booked holidays from you.
Downtown_Midnight579@reddit
In my experience, no good employer has had issues with pre booked leave
I guess it could depend on the type of work you do and if you told them upfront
blind_disparity@reddit
Yes very much depends on the type of work. Some jobs are massively busy over Christmas and everyone else will have booked leave well beforehand. It's not a fun thing about those jobs.
If the job isn't something that gets busy at Christmas then it's probably their quietest part of the year and it's shitty to deny holiday, but still gotta be dealt with.
OP if you're still there next year, get your leave booked early!
cyberllama@reddit
Seems it's retail and OP dropped this on them after accepting the job offer. By the sounds of it, the manager is doing their best to accommodate as much as possible but is not very happy about being put in this situation and rightly so.
becab@reddit
On the other hand, if the manager knows they are busy during that period and are looking to hire someone who has the availability, they could have made this known during the interview stage. I wouldn’t place all the blame on OP here
joefife@reddit
Continue interviewing. This place has already shown you how badly you can expect to be treated.
Ramsputee@reddit
What sort of work is it? I've worked retail/service jobs in the past where holiday requests weren't accepted between mid November and the end of December.
critterwol@reddit
Retail pharmacy apparently. Says it all IMO.
Curlysar@reddit
If it’s retail then it could be because of the timing - the lead up to Christmas is generally when retailers need more staff as a rule, so getting 2 weeks off would be unheard of for that time of year.
GoingGreyer@reddit
I dont think there are any laws making companies honour a pre-booked holiday but the vast majority of decent employers will.
Violet351@reddit
Legally speaking it’s up to them when you take holidays but most good companies would accept you had this booked already
Delicious_Bag1209@reddit
I don’t know what kind of a job role this is, but my employers always honour pre-existing commitments.
strangesam1977@reddit
I once started a job who wanted me to start ASAP (unemployed at the time). But I had tickets to a week long festival which started 10 days or so after my start date. I told them that when I was offered the job.
The company not only let me take the week off, but during the holiday, on payday they paid me for the whole 2 weeks I’d been there, including the days of holiday (which made the last couple of days of the festival much more fun).
I wasn’t expecting to be paid until the payday after that.
elgrn1@reddit
If this was booked before you took the job and told them then they should honour it.
Depending on when the company's holiday year begins and ends, you may not have enough available days this holiday year to cover 10 working days off as paid leave so you may need to take some as unpaid. Ie if the holiday year runs from Jan-Dec, and you have 20 days leave plus 8 back holidays, you'll get 2 bank holidays off in December, meaning you'll need 8 days from your annual leave allowance. 20 days split over 12 months totals 1.6 days per month, which means you'll accrue 2.5 days between your start date and the end of the year, meaning 6.5 days will be unpaid.
JarethJ99@reddit
Run from the place. Any decent company would honour what you already had booked! Giving me big red flags, they're desperate for you to start and can't have you away for 2 weeks...
RacyFireEngine@reddit
I would ask if they are reimbursing you for costs incurred, flights, hotels and such. I’ve had to do this in the past, company needed me immediately for an international event.
AmphibianNo8598@reddit
Jobs don’t love it when you already have stuff booked and they could not hire you for it.
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