Some thoughts
Posted by Fern_Pearl@reddit | collapse | View on Reddit | 147 comments
I'm sitting here stunned and terrified for the future. My daughter is a type 1 diabetic and depends on the aca (her coverage isn't even any good). She's also lgbt. My children are half Asian Indian, born here but that doesn't matter to the mob, amirite?
It occurred to me that in this country we've been lulled into a false sense of security because we live (lived?) in an era of unprecedented peace and prosperity. Life was a hard slog for most of the population in the past. Grinding poverty, exploitative working conditions, disease, hunger, famine, war...all were an ever present threat or reality for the majority of people. And we're about to get a taste of what their lives were like.
starter_human@reddit
I imagine it's pretty scary to be living in a dying and decaying empire. The american people weren't prepared for any of that.
Colosseros@reddit
Mostly sadness. Mostly sadness. Oh, that and being actively poisoned by our unprotected soil, air and water.
SwimmingInCheddar@reddit
And to add: The food, and all the chemicals added to it.
Colosseros@reddit
Fucking delicious. 😘🤌
Veganees@reddit
I'll take one antibiotics burger, a PFAS salad with plastic dressing please.
You want anything?
8-bitFloozy@reddit
1 order of pesticide fries, side of mad cow gravy please.
Desperate-Strategy10@reddit
While there's still food at all, anyway.
hikereyes2@reddit
Zombieland --> Twinkies
stoopid_me@reddit
Snowballs?? Snowballs?!?!!? WHERE'S THE #@$%@ TWINKEES?!?!?!
AlwaysPissedOff59@reddit
Add in preventable diseases when RFK Jr. fucks with vaccines next year.
undergroundloans@reddit
I mean it’ll be a while before that actually happens. Economically and Militarily America hasn’t even started to drop off. The future looks pretty bad though.
friendofbirddogs@reddit
On the contrary, I think it's coming faster than you think.
Taqueria_Style@reddit
Drop NATO like a log in the toilet, like this narcissistic asswipe will, and it's coming in under 18 months.
friendofbirddogs@reddit
inshallah but I doubt that will happen. A president doesn't have as much power as a lot of people seem to think.
AlwaysPissedOff59@reddit
This one will have the entire government and judiciary at his command. NATO effectively dies next year. If you're in Kyiv, get out now before you become fallout this winter.
friendofbirddogs@reddit
From your lips to God's ears though I suspect you are wrong. (About NATO, not Ukraine which is going to have one hell of a winter and Zelensky probably ought to pack his bags and move to Florida.)
AlwaysPissedOff59@reddit
Trump may try to extort higher defense spending from NATO, but Vlad helped him immensely in this election and WILL want a quick return on his investment. I think the US pulls out of NATO by the end of 25.
friendofbirddogs@reddit
Trump was the first president to send lethal aid to Ukraine, after increasing nonlethal aid and intelligence. He increased Russian sanctions, pulled out of the Iran nuclear deal that Putin helped broker, killed Suleimani, and killed hundreds of Russians in Syria, withdrew from the inf treaty, stopped Russian business with Venezuela, expelled dozens of Russians from US, etc and people are still out here acting like Trump is doing Putins biddings and not just the normal business of US empire.
AlwaysPissedOff59@reddit
Putin and Trump met unaccompanied by any US officials shortly after Trump took power. They've spoken on the phone numerous times since 2020. Yeah, Trump's not a Russian asset, SMH.
JeremyViJ@reddit
Why you doubt ?
He has said it for 10 years straight.
His generals warned the electorate about him as a danger to foreign policy.
I think it will take a few months for people to settle with what happened yesterday. I see a lot of disbelieve.
I've had a few accidents where I injured my body and the moments after it I try to go back and change it in my mind, like if I could. I then try to reason the injury is not so bad. It is only days after that I realize It was bad and now I have to live with the injury because it never heals to 100%. Nothing too big thankfully, I have all my limbs.
But I feel maybe you are still in shock.
friendofbirddogs@reddit
I'm not in shock about anything and don't even think it's that important who is president. I have no idea what you are talking about regarding your injury but I'm also glad that you still have your limbs.
Trump has said he would do a lot of things that he did not do. NATO has a long and lurid history that involves covert operations and intelligence orgs and it serves ruling class interests that are much larger than any individual politician. He will likely do what he did last time, start some half asked attempts to change some aspects of foreign policy and then fail to carry it out because he hasn't the organizational capacity or attention span or bureaucracy to achieve it, and then he will more or less carry out the same foreign policy as his predecessors, just with different rhetoric. I think he will wind down overt support and supplies for Ukraine but I think that is going to happen regardless, but his PR around it will make it sound like a big win for his base.
His biggest difference with the Dems imo will be in increased privatization, deregulation, tax cuts at home and probably harsher immigration measures at the border. He'll do all sorts of other terrible stuff too regarding the police and protest and Gaza but I think the Dems were well on their way for that already.
But if he really does manage to destroy NATO I welcome it.
blueteamk087@reddit
If Trump is serious about having the military gun down protesters, the country will descend into a Civil War.
friendofbirddogs@reddit
It may descend into chaos or an authoritarian state, but it won't be a civil war. For that you'd need two side woth comparable militaries which would require industrial backing and the support of a large segment of the ruling class and control of physical resources on either side, and there is no universe in which that happens.
analogmouse@reddit
Any civil war requires two sides with resources, and they happen with some regularity. I wouldn’t say it’s likely, but civil war isn’t out of the question here.
The US military isn’t a monoculture, as much as they’d like you believe that. Everyone is trained NOT to follow unlawful orders. Some will blindly follow, of course, but leadership, especially, will know that their allegiance is to the country and constitution, not an individual. Add in powerful politicians, billionaires who can fund it, and state-level national guard under the control of governors, and you’ve got a recipe for organized, effective insurrection.
My guess is that there is a small chance of civil war, and it would probably be precipitated by Trump trying to effectively kidnap immigrants and their families. There are millions of undocumented people working a raising citizen children in places like NY and CA. Brownshirts try and “round them up” and these states will tell them to fuck right off.
friendofbirddogs@reddit
I completely disagree that anyone is going to go to war to defend immigrants. He will likely increase deportations as that had happened with every subsequent presidency and perhaps increase military at the border. It could very well become violent, sporadically. Maybe even a conflict between states and feds that goes through the courts. It's not going to become an actual civil war, vigilantes and even small paramilitary groups like brown shirts can't sustain a civil war, the opinions of military members are basically irrelevant. They could defy orders or even engage in some protest but they aren't going to sustain a war. You brought it up yourself, who would the two sides be? If a large enough faction of the ruling class wanted to get rid of Trump there are far easier ways to do it. Trump himself isn't that important.
JeremyViJ@reddit
I think we can study how previous dictators took control of democracies. Venezuela would be the latest example.
friendofbirddogs@reddit
The US is a global hegemonic power. Venezuela was not. Venezuela and other small countries that have resources that are important to larger more powerful countries have an entirely different set of circumstances causing factional disputes. Ruling classes and militaries within those countries are allinged with various global powers. Who controls Venezuelas resources, who profits from it, how is this enforced, who would be motivated to challenge it, how is their military supplied, what factions might benefit from breaking away, who might challenge it. These are the things you'd have to "study" and you will conclude that the forces that affect a small poor oil rich country have little to do with the conditions in the richest and most powerful country in the world. You should be "studying" the end of the Soviet Union, the decline of the British empire, even the long slow fall of Rome, that sort of thing. But more importantly, thinking about how power actually works in the US and to what extent its democratic in the first place and if there is even a need for "dictators" any more to "take control" in order to challenge / subvert democracy.
Tijenater@reddit
If it does actually get to that point there’s a very good chance the military splinters, along with whatever resources they have
blueteamk087@reddit
A Civil War in America would look more like the Yugoslav wars as the country would start to balkanize.
friendofbirddogs@reddit
Nonsense. Balkanization happened along ethnic and regional lines that do not exist in the US. It happened once the hegemonic outside force that was holding them together (ussr) collapsed leaving a power void that factions within former Yugoslavia scrambled to take control, often aided and supplied by stronger outside forces that had profit and power to gain from getting in there and nothing to lose from staying out. There is no analogous comparison within the US. People who say this usually just mean there are a lot of people within the US who have irreconcilable opinions about politics and culture and they are increasingly willing to be violent over it. But it's not people willing to be violent over their opinions that drives war. There could be random or even organized violence here and there but it will be nothing on a level that could lead to something like balkanization within the US because there would be nothing for anyone with any actual power to gain from it.
The analogy for what is happening in the US is not Yugoslavia, the US is not a peripheral state. The analogy is the USSR, the US is a core state. Just like when the USSR collapsed, Americans will be increasingly impoverished and their institutions will be increasingly privatized in ruling class hands as all semblance of democracy disappears. And people may respond with violence sometimes and have violence enacted on them but there will not be civil war. The analogy for Balkanization is what's happening right now in Israel and the larger middle east as well as Ukraine. As the core dominant power (US) collapses, it will increasingly be unable to hold its peripheral states together. Communal and regional interests in those areas will fight to pull it apart and create a new order, when the US eventually withdraws support for Israel and Ukraine, those regions will massively change and it will be increasingly violent. This has already started, with Afghanisran then Ukraine now Israel. BRICS and their alternative trade institutions will continue to challenge US global hegemony and control of international institutions. And the US empire will fall. They'll still be a rich powerful country but it won't be what it is now, and it will take US liberal democracy with it. This has already started, Americans just don't understand it because their politicians and media serve up brainwashed slop as explanations so they will probably increasingly blame each other and act with violence. But the military is not about to splinter, that's insane. And no industrialists or regional interests are going to break away from the union and try to challenge them, think through it for a second, who would do that and how?
friendofbirddogs@reddit
Militaries don't have resources. They would need industrial backing. So you'd need a large enough faction of the military to take over regions of the country and occupy it and take over industry and defend it against the entire rest if the country's forces etc. Why would any ruling class faction go along with this? What would be in it for them that they couldn't get under Trump? Why would any sizeable portion of the military feel motivated do this? It's nonsensical. There will not be a civil war, the ruling class in this country is very united and they are going to do what's good for capital. Which at this moment means squeezing every drop they can out of dying US hegemony before pivoting eventually (after who knows how many people die) to some new international multipolarity which may or may not be worse - depending on who you are or where you live. None of these people care about whether or not Trump kills some protestors, at worst it would cause a minor scandal and some riots and then everyone will move on.
blueteamk087@reddit
Also, state national guard units.
AlwaysPissedOff59@reddit
Nope. Vigilantee-ism will be encouraged, and many, many innocents will be murdered. Lots of paramilitaries, much like the disintegrating Yugoslavia.
ShadowPsi@reddit
Yeah, the US is like a tree with a rotten core in the trunk. It looks strong, but so did Rome once. Rome's army was the largest it ever was in the 5th century.
The core of a nation is its people. But our people put themselves before the nation and can't tell truth from fiction.
Education what makes a people strong, because it is what allows us to tell truth from fiction. The incoming administration worked hard to undermine education last time around and will certainly do so again. We are a nation easily swayed by obvious psy-ops from a different failed empire, that has been at war with us for a long time. We just refuse to see it, and so we continue to fall into delusion.
The "barbarians at the gate" this time is climate change. It's a bit more insidious, but it doesn't matter if enough people don't take it seriously. No one individual can save us from the folly of the masses. Especially a nation of "rugged individuals" under the delusion that they are all islands.
AlwaysPissedOff59@reddit
It helps the other empire that our leader was, and will be, an asset.
JeremyViJ@reddit
Once the run on the Dollar starts it will feel like collapse just took a few days.
With tariffs and tax cuts to the rich we will be there in no time.
It is hard to avoid the equivalent of a meteorite hit on your basket of egg, but it is good to put eggs in more than one basket just in case.
PlausiblyCoincident@reddit
Up until this morning, I would have said yes. But now, we could be on our way to losing reserve currency status in the next 5 years if this trade war Donald wants to start goes the wrong way and China makes good on its promise to invade Taiwan. Militarily, we'll be nothing more than empty threats, and economically, we could become a global pariah state.
dawnguard2021@reddit
The trade war was already going the wrong way under Biden. Escalating sanctions caused other countries to seriously decouple from the US dollar.
AlwaysPissedOff59@reddit
We'll do more than utter empty threats - behind the scenes, US foreign policy will ENCOURAGE IT. I can easily see us remove our troops from SK, too, and give Kim permission to invade.
panormda@reddit
4 months. 4 months from Hitler being appointed chancellor until the night of the long knives.
Credit to /u/1Smoovepimp Hitler allied himself with leaders of German conservative and nationalist movements, and in January 1933 German President Paul von Hindenburg appointed him chancellor. Hitler's Third Reich had been born, and it was entirely fascist in character. Within two months Hitler achieved full dictatorial power through the Enabling Act. In April 1933 communists, socialists, democrats, and Jews were purged from the German civil service, and trade unions were outlawed the following month. That July Hitler banned all political parties other than his own, and prominent members of the German Communist Party and the Social Democratic Party were arrested and imprisoned in concentration camps. Lest there be any remaining questions about the political character of the Nazi revolution, Hitler ordered the murder of Gregor Strasser, an act that was carried out on June 30, 1934, during the Night of the Long Knives. Any remaining traces of socialist thought in the Nazi Party had been extinguished.
AlwaysPissedOff59@reddit
Trump won't need an Enabling Act - SCOTUS already did that.
FluffyLobster2385@reddit
A lot of the senior citizens who have lived their entire lives in an American golden age are in for a harsh reality for the remainder of their lives.
bernpfenn@reddit
nah, it's the younger ones that bear the brunt
jbiserkov@reddit
I think me can burn the candle from both ends and in the middle, for makshimum iffy-shun-sea
I call this "Project 45 squared".
dumnezero@reddit
I'm still looking for a good term to describe the imperial consumer lifestyle in which people claim to be poor while actually using enormous amounts of resources and energy.
I want to say "energetically overleveraged" or something similar that underscores the urgent requirement to scale "stuff" and consumption down exponentially, and not just individually.
A_Monster_Named_John@reddit
Trying to grapple with the degenerate man-child consumer-trash decadence thing is rough. Literally every person I've met who's been crying and moaning about the 'Biden economy' over the past few years is some jerk-off who drives a new (or new-ish) lifted pickup truck around, lives in a house that they own (and often one that they inherited), and pisses away heaps of money dining out, going to the casino, and taking trips to Vegas, Sturgis, Hawaii, Disneyworld, etc...
Fern_Pearl@reddit (OP)
My mother is 82. She’s about to experience it.
AlwaysPissedOff59@reddit
The Muricans will deny that their Empire is decaying until the very end. Lots of "others" will suffer in the meantime. They won't even recognize it when leopards eat their faces. Massive billionaire propaganda coupled with forty years of GOP educational policies that have finally borne fruit has done something the Confederacy and the 1930s Bund could not do. What a harvest we have reaped.
As an American, I apologize to the world - and especially Ukrainians, Palestinians, and Lebanese - for the shitshow that will begin in late January, 2025.
Taqueria_Style@reddit
Legitimately I do not get how the majority of my coworkers come off with this smug superior master race attitude and don't even know how to oil change their car. This world makes no sense to me. But I do know that they're going to be really really angry motherfuckers when they get punched in the face by reality and they're going to take it out on me in the extreme. And they outnumber me ten to one.
9kdidgireedo@reddit
No one is going to know how to change oil or need to do so within 10 years
jnyrdr@reddit
can’t change oil if oil all gone
sourfunyuns@reddit
Highly doubt.
TheSmashingPumpkinss@reddit
If you're writing this comment on Reddit in English, you are part of the empire. It's the global liberal world order that just happens to be led by the USA.
As the empire dies, so too will your quality of life and safety.
RobertoDeBagel@reddit
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition
Livid-Rutabaga@reddit
The American people are in such denial it's not even funny.
bluedragonflames@reddit
Would have been if they read a book. Oh right they were banned.
pajamakitten@reddit
Because they do not think it could ever happen to the US. The sun set on the British Empire after WW2, something that would have been unimaginable just 50 years prior. The US has known a lot of prosperity post-WW2 but might finally find that its time is coming to an end too. However, when all you have known is prosperity then it is unfathomable that might change.
Taqueria_Style@reddit
They just took all the homeless people and chopped them up into dog food, that's all. See! We're all fine no one's poor!
Renard4@reddit
Actually, no. The 6th century, right after the fall of the western roman empire was an era of cultural and societal bloom in some areas and decline in others. While urbanization declined, there was also unprecedented (for the era) cultural freedom since the roman society exploded and norms and expectations could change rapidly. It eventually lead to what's called the middle ages but it could have been anything else really.
Nobody is prepared to see their centuries-old empire collapse, but there's always light at the end of the tunnel and it could very well be an opportunity to dramatically change what needs to change in American society. If that were to happen following this election, and I don't believe it will.
PervyNonsense@reddit
Collapse is independent of leadership. The only question was who was going to be at the helm when the ship finally sank.
Trump will make it go faster, but Harris was going to approve a bunch more fracking so clearly no meaningful focus on the climate.
The whole world is falling apart.
winston_obrien@reddit
Agree, but I was hoping for a kinder, gentler apocalypse
friendofbirddogs@reddit
Kinder and gentler to whom though?
AlwaysPissedOff59@reddit
White cis fundamentalist christian males only..
Manos-32@reddit
Its not actually going to be for them though in the long run, they will still be below Trump, his Toadies and Oligarchs. The funny thing about living in a dictatorship (or w/e the US technically becomes) is only those at the top have power and everyone one else is expendable.
They will certainly have a position of privilege to some extent over the lefties, women, POC, Atheists etc. But they will never truly be "safe".
Republic, if you can keep it.
TheBroWhoLifts@reddit
It'll be bloodless. If the left allows it to be.
-Creepy 2025 spokesperson dude a few months ago. That was a threat they intend to follow through on.
AlwaysPissedOff59@reddit
You need to read this. They don't intend for anything to be bloodless.
repzaj1234@reddit
So 60mph towards a cliff with Harris and 100mph with Trump? You'd think this didn't matter since we end up on the same cliff regardless but that difference in speed could've meant another generation gets to squeak by living somewhat normal lives.
Pi-creature@reddit
Agree with this statement, it's an important one. Both candidates were a poor choice for climate change.
bipolarearthovershot@reddit
Kamala made it clear she loved fracking, she fucked up
Logical-Race8871@reddit
I've been mentally preparing myself since 2016 for things to just fall completely off the rails like Russia in the 90s or so many other examples. We're gonna shed a few decades this decade.
Honestly, having elder family members nearby has been a godsend to talk to. People have gone through these things, and they're still alive.
My grandma was born in rural nowhere in 1941 at the very tail end of the dustbowl, and has gone through poverty hell. Her parents were literally chased out of life by climate change and soil erosion that moved at walking pace. But she's literally the most wonderful, upbeat and stoic person I've ever known.
I talked to my dad about his experiences growing up when the schools integrated in the South and then through Vietnam and all the social unrest. He spends his retirement serving as many others as he can.
So many other elders I know lost both parents to illness very young or went through life-long abuse or war or whatever. They're doing alright. Better than my mal-adjusted millennial ass.
I think what I've taken away from asking over and over again how they got through it and turned out that well, is that they just... did. There's lessons to learn about how, but at a psychological, spiritual level it just...happened. There wasn't another option but to survive the times, and that brings an incredible level of clarity to precarity.
It's like a mom lifting a car off her kid. It defies all possible possibilities and accepted limitations, because it has to happen. She just does it. Figure out the torn tendons later. That's a "not today" problem.
"Kid trapped lift car kid alive". That ain't in a book. That's some ethereal amygdala shit we don't understand, and constantly underestimate - in others and ourselves.
Alright ramblepost almost over, but I will keep saying this in this sub for anyone who needs a branch to grab: Go volunteer at your local food bank.
There's something about seeing people helping people, about absolute non-transactional goodness, and seeing little kids there smiling and bouncing off the walls that is clarifying, focusing, and paradoxically calming about this whole thing we're living through.
Gypsy4040@reddit
Good point on reflection.
Thathathatha@reddit
Most (all?) empires fail and humans as a whole can't exist for long with the way we consume and consume. I just hope collapse doesn't happen in my lifetime. That's what keeps me up at night sometimes.
I sometimes just stick my head in the sand and pretend collapse isn't coming. Kind of have to preserve your sanity. I don't have an answer for you my friend.
AlwaysPissedOff59@reddit
Every Empire ever has fallen. Rome, if you include Byzantium, lasted 1800 years, but its time eventually came.
LysergicWalnut@reddit
Civilisations rising and falling is the default.
It is foolish to think that this one will be any different.
Fern_Pearl@reddit (OP)
The terrible irony for me is that I was actually starting to live a good life. Mine was incredibly unhappy until three years ago. I met my sweetheart, dealt with my mental health issues and started school. I thought I could have a somewhat decent life, at least for a while.
gbooster@reddit
Cheer up, bud. You still can have a decent life! This might be the USA's big middle finger to the rest of the people in the world, to the planet, and to reality, but it also means the country will close ranks and horde its wealth. Try to enjoy the last part of the golden age while it's happening.
Big picture for the future. The USA will no longer lead the world in anything but being despised by the rest of the world. China will have to take the reins as the world leader in many areas, especially climate change. This might end up being better in the long run as democracy and capitalism will never succeed in battling climate change. It's just not cost-effective and people freak out over any tiny inconvenience. Every four years some asshole will be elected that will undo whatever gains have been made by the previous administration, and let's be frank... The Democrats didn't do nearly enough for climate change anyway. It will take an authoritarian government to really make any change. Hopefully, the leaders of China will have the foresight and vision to make a real effort to save humanity because the USA sure as fuck doesn't.
humongous_rabbit@reddit
Chinas government is fascist too. Nothing will change.
HikmetLeGuin@reddit
I have my disagreements with China's government, but they are taking more action on climate change than most Western governments.
llamasyi@reddit
at least they have smart facists
80taylor@reddit
yeah, and since they aren't worried about getting voted out, they can make policy choices that won't pay off for 20 years. they are awful at some stuff (human rights) but successful in other ways the US cannot be
N0truthinadvertising@reddit
100% this right fucking here - I'm going to lose my country to someone who speaks and appears to reason at the level of 2nd grader (apologies to 2nd graders everywhere).
JeremyViJ@reddit
I agree. Except one big mistake. China is capitalist.
You have to go back 70 years approximately to get to a communist China.
I agree with your general world view point though
80taylor@reddit
thanks for this post. the most optimistic take i've seen all day. cheered me up a tiny bit
HikmetLeGuin@reddit
Don't get too down. Keep up the fight as best you can. And a lot of things in the world may suck, but your life can still be good.
kitty60s@reddit
Yes, but I don’t want to be around for the fall of the current one!
El_sticko_@reddit
Honestly dude, you gotta stay off this sub man. All this fear mongering and what not is nonsense. You and your family are gonna be alright. Theres no point in stressing out on things out of your control.
rmontreal07@reddit
The natural order for the majority of human history, and the entirety of prehistoric life was chaotic and violent. Collapse will happen a bit sooner now, but this path was determined long ago
Makkusu87@reddit
Hey im with you there. My step son legit had his first seizure on Monday, lost all hope (I'm poor) for decent medical care on Tuesday.
Democracy, great expirament that was
wizardsdorothy@reddit
P
ThisOldHatte@reddit
If you saw what this system did to Gaza as being done to human beings you would not be shocked.
elihu@reddit
Yeah, that was a real loser of a policy position. I'm not sure if it was decisive, but when you have John Oliver, Bernie Sanders, Jon Stewart, AOC, and so on who all clearly very much wanted Harris to win but who were also critical of the administration's Gaza policy in the strongest possible terms -- maybe Harris and Biden should have listened to them and changed their approach.
https://www.jpost.com/us-elections/article-800603
Yeah, actually I'm thinking this probably was decisive. I've seen so much hate against the Democrats who wouldn't commit to voting for Harris due to Gaza, but really it's just basic causality. If you take a position that horrifies voters, you're going to lose votes. Biden and Harris ignored what their base was saying.
BoredMan29@reddit
"The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born: now is the time of monsters"
RainbowandHoneybee@reddit
I was talking with my son today and talked about the fact that the prospect of US kind of remind me of the film, V for Vendetta.
POSTHVMAN@reddit
It’s certainly a 5th of November to be remembered
AlwaysPissedOff59@reddit
Except>! the ending will be different.!<
fedfuzz1970@reddit
If Trump and his toady Miller start to actually deport people, can you image millions of people on the run, hiding, living on the boundary? The people helping them taking risks, the neighbor reporting neighbor--what a concept!
elihu@reddit
This seems depressingly accurate: https://www.gocomics.com/tomthedancingbug/2024/09/20
NotAnotherRedditAcc2@reddit
What did people like you do when people were deported while there were democrat presidents? What did you do when the democratic party was the party opposed to illegal immigration (the 90s)?
OnlyThornyToad@reddit
We need some sort of transportation network, like a railroad but hidden, say, underground.
NotAnotherRedditAcc2@reddit
Sincerely nobody cares if your kids are gay or Indians. SINCERELY.
And "her coverage isn't even any good" is an amazing endorsement of it. If people had just heard this yesterday, maybe things would be different!
magenta_thompson@reddit
Also, when you think about how long other countries have been around, this shit happened fast.
Livid-Rutabaga@reddit
I had a similar thought. We are going back in time, and not in a good way.
ThrowRa97461@reddit
America is an empire in decline. We’re all living through the equivalent of 4th century Rome. Cracks are started to show already, now the active decline begins. Just wait for whatever our equivalent of the 5th century holds.
Maj0r-DeCoverley@reddit
You've been lulled into a false sense or security by people who promised you the class war didn't exist, while waging one against you. Yes. Your protests and rages have been confined to an enclosed preserve of acceptable, cosmetic things: LGBT rights and such. And now that they removed the class war, the Black Panthers, and the rest, they're logically coming to remove this last artificial preserve too.
If you want my thoughts today, I'd say: you need to stop issuing pin's and posters with "resistance!" on it, we're not in Disney's Star Wars. You need to actually resist. If not for you, for your children. Re-read Howard Zinn if necessary: America isn't just about money and greed like some Orange people would like you to believe, it's also a land with a strong people's History. So dig it up and organize ways to fight your elites and their minions.
... It this day of sorrow, can I interest you in a guillotine perhaps? Still in good condition. Slightly used
fedfuzz1970@reddit
Like a national strike and/or targeted boycotts.
Maj0r-DeCoverley@reddit
Every way is a good way, then you reinforce the one that worked.
Apparently you had pretty successful strikes recently. That's a start. Imagine if you managed to organize a general strike
redditjoda@reddit
Like the truckers?
jaymickef@reddit
Collapse continues on schedule, including the tightening of borders. The EU looking to have its own military is in the news today. What do you think the chances of that actually happening are?
Somebody37721@reddit
EU won't ever have its own army for a simple reason that west European countries don't need it. They're comfortably situated far away from Russia with plenty of buffer states in between. Why the hell would they sacrifice their welfare for eastern Europe? Won't happen. Their role would be symbolical in any "EU-wide" defensive alliance so it wouldn't be appropriate to talk about European army.
There COULD be a non-EU defensive alliance within EU by certain countries with vested interests in security. I could imagine Poland, Finland, Baltic-states and possibly remnants of Ukraine forming such entity should confidence in NATO diminish. What I mean is real commitment to defense and not some empty saber rattling that we see today.
Maj0r-DeCoverley@reddit
Good chances actually. It's been underway for almost 10 years now, but under the radar. And mainly promoted by France. For instance the EU common mecanisms and budgets to help Ukraine originated from a French proposal back in 2018 (we had the Sahel in mind back then, but some people already mentioned Ukraine)
However it won't be an unified military. And it doesn't need to be. TUE art.42 is already stronger than NATO art.5 for instance, so the defense part is already here. It's the offensive and diplomatic parts we need to build.
In the same vein, for a moment France and the UK considered sharing aircraft carriers. I still think it's a good idea (despite my traditional dislike of the Insular French honhonhon). That's the kind of economies of scale we need to aim for.
I now I focus on France here, but that's because I'm expert on the matter: you'll now we have reached a strong EU the day France gives its UNSC seat to the EU. It could come soon, it could never happen. Suspense. It will depend on unforeseen events and crisis.
jaymickef@reddit
What would the effect be on NATO? That’s what concerns us in Canada, we feel a little caught between the EU and the US.
Maj0r-DeCoverley@reddit
I can't see no effects on NATO unless the US do something towards or against NATO. As I said, the Treaty of the European Union already offers a stronger guarantee than NATO in case of attack of one member.
I don't know how you feel in Canada about NATO, but here in France we don't like it. However we can't get away from it either (thanks, Nicolas Sarkozy !). So, and I'll speak with lots of egoism here, I would be thrilled if Trump destroyed NATO one way or another. Because it stands in the way against a common EU defense.
Or course, the ultimate aim of any defensive alliance in the West (whether under US control as NATO is, or otherwise) is to be able to stand together in case of hardship. It definitely includes the UK (those guys who left us) and Canada.
As a Canadian you should be interested by the current situation too. This isn't a bad thing, it is a good time to renegociate things in your favor. A common EU defense (someday...) would give you a "market" of common defense where the US isn't a monopoly. That's rather nice. At any rate it would force everyone to promote more competitive and fair defense agreements, instead than the one where we're supposed to dutifully buy American or see our weapons deal cancelled by the Americans and our industry attacked and spied on by the Americans.
(Sorry, I'm busy right now and so I'm writing without any clear draft ahahahah. Tl;dr: on THIS topic, Trump isn't a danger he's an opportunity for everyone else except the US)
Platypus-Dick-6969@reddit
Well, if UN peacekeepers can’t entirely survive Gaza or the West Bank unscathed, I can’t say with certainty that an EU military force would do any “good” over there… in the case of an oil fire, pouring water on it just serves to spread the fire everywhere all over the kitchen… anyway, hitler hitler hitler, something something hitler, nature bats last something…
jaymickef@reddit
I don't think the EU has any plans to send any troops outside their own borders. Just keep Russia (and migrants) from entering.
Taqueria_Style@reddit
And when they remove the last artificial preserve, everyone finds out real suddenly which side of the "beautiful people" line they're on, I take it?
Majestic-Bowler-6184@reddit
I can pay in sweet potatos and sword lessons for that guillotine, my goodman.
13mind@reddit
Move to a land-based living format, become less dependent on society.
Aother than that, things will evolve in their own way.
mr_jim_lahey@reddit
Even if you have the willingness, know-how, land and community to successfully subsistence farm today (already a delusional fantasy for 99.9999% of Americans), climate change will destroy you if we're talking about a collapse where industrial farming/food system has failed. In practice trying to do this would just mean getting stranded in MAGA country where obtaining basic necessities would depend on interacting with the craziest of the crazy right-wing wackos on a daily basis.
ShadowPsi@reddit
While this is the ideal, and I'd love to do that, the fact is that we are far beyond the carrying capacity of the earth to support everyone in that. We have so many people because mass farming is so much more efficient. Sure, it's also destroying the planet, but that's a long term game, and most people can't seem to think past today.
That said, and caveats aside, I agree with you.
DeLoreanAirlines@reddit
Type 1 is so financially crippling
deanmass@reddit
Both my sons are T1. I am willing to drive a bulldozer into a pharmacy if need be. I am so fucking done with having to worry about them being able to survive
Fern_Pearl@reddit (OP)
She has a $3000 deduction, pays almost $200 a month and still pays $250 a month for inulin.
These aren’t new insulins, either. The ones she uses have been around since before she was diagnosed 20 years ago.
DeLoreanAirlines@reddit
It also has all these other “hidden” costs. Needles, test strips, CGM’s, lancets, and alcohol wipes. Not to mention eating a healthier diet which costs more. Personally I’m also saddled with hearing aids and all those associated costs too. Best wishes for you guys.
ergoI@reddit
Much of the world lives in poverty because of our lifestyle here in the global north. We extract and dump. But Earth is finite. Had to catch up to us as some point.
06210311200805012006@reddit
I think fears are normal but it's okay for you to relax a bit. It wasn't the last election ever, and material conditions within the heart of empire will continue to be well above those in the colonies as we undergo catabolic collapse.
Feel free to mourn the death of the democrat institution, and walk away from them, and set your sights on real change. To me, falling to "two party realism" and settling for more years of genocides and ecocides is the real apathy. For your daughter's sake, I encourage you to imagine the passing of this postwar era leading to a new one that is kinder, more just, and values the natural world.
It will be messy, though.
SunnySummerFarm@reddit
I’m 43. Chronic illness my whole life, came from poor families, which other chronic illnesses. This place has been a shit show for a long time. The ACA is so new. LGBT+ rights are SO new.
I’m not trying to say that I’m not freaking out and worried. I am. I just also suspect that if you think you got sold a story of prosperity you were already the one who was lucky. A lot, like a lot, of Americans, have been struggling and suffering for a long time.
Fern_Pearl@reddit (OP)
Let me clarify, I wasn’t sold any story of prosperity, I didn’t experience it. I had a very, very hard life as a young person, and it was still pretty bad a few years ago.
Renard4@reddit
Poverty doesn't mean being miserable. People in Africa aren't all depressed, they just carry on and do with what they have. Seneca wrote in his Letters that it's not reality that makes you sad, it's your standards and expectations. If you don't have any you can't experience that feeling. You can't be terrified of a future you're going to embrace no matter what happens.
blacsilver@reddit
Truly spoken like someone who has never lived in poverty.
Embarrassed-Year6479@reddit
I am utterly horrified. I am not American, but that doesn’t necessarily mean I am not impacted. I am genuinely concerned for the planet and everything that calls it home. Thinking about the future feels incredibly grim and seeing the out of control bush fire in California destroying crops today feels like foreshadowing into what I suspect our fairly immediate future will look like.
I am scared, I am angry, I am disappointed & I feel completely hopeless.
Fern_Pearl@reddit (OP)
My son, who is about to graduate with a political science degree, doesn’t think he’ll be able to pass his more insane stuff. Also, his people can’t get along and they all have different agendas.
Our system was designed to withstand a wannabe tyrant like this.
superduperlikesoup@reddit
I'd love to say Australia welcomes you with open arms, but hateful rhetoric and a swing to the right seems to be creeping in over here. While we would not have voted in that guy, we are not the welcoming bunch we used to be. Still, no guns, LGBTIQA rights and bodily autonomy might make it worth the move.
Grand-Page-1180@reddit
As much as I hate what the elections are, I thought to myself maybe it's our turn to experience what Fascism is like. Not that I want that, but our number came up. Happened to 1930's-1940's Germany, now it looks like it's going to happen here. Maybe that's what it's going to take to get people to wake up.
NeatWatercress4192@reddit
I read that we almost became a fascist nation back in the 30s, thanks to some capitalists trying to overthrow the government, but it was stopped in the nick of time. We are getting closer to the 2030s, so I guess it's time for history to repeat itself (or should I say rhyme itself?) and make up for lost time.
Oftentimes_Ephemeral@reddit
You can understand global problems as they are and not be a doomer. This sub has become venting sesh for everyone to put out any and all negative thoughts in their mind.
Hey! You can have a heart attack or a stroke at any moment. Should we just freak out about it the entire time we are alive?
It’s as if people nowadays get their self worth by how negative their outlook on life is.. very troubling
Smooth_Cod4600@reddit
This sucks so much. I don't even know what to say at this point to console anyone, let alone myself. I remember 2016 and watching the results and I was crushed. Now I'm more aware of how many of my peers are scumbags.
The most disheartening thing I've heard was from NPR, they had a contributer who was young (mid 30s) and she said she was 100% Democrat, canvassed for Democrat before she was eligible to vote, she voted all red because of abortion. She was legitimately scared of "post birth abortions" and that there were not specific gestational guidelines for abortion.
I get it if you have religious beliefs or moral beliefs but why TF are we legislating based on that. You don't want an abortion? Cool! Don't get one.
NoMethod6455@reddit
Yeah I’m very concerned about the ACA among other things, like this talk of outlawing birthright citizenship??
On the ACA, I a schizophrenia spectrum disorder and also rely on the ACA for the cost sharing reduction subsidy, I think nearly everyone on the s-spectrum relies on the ACA in some way. He’ll probably start with ending enhanced subsidies, giving contracts to negligent companies/end contracts with pricier insurers, maybe restrict reproductive and transitioning services currently covered under the ACA etc.
“Concepts of a plan” is gonna be ugly. Mike Johnson said last week they’re going to torch Obamacare completely and Trump is having RFK Jr “work on women’s health”
LazyZealot9428@reddit
I’m actually finding comfort in the BBC Historic Farm Series today, specifically Edwardian Farm. Watching Ruth Goodman boil a sheep’s head is oddly soothing. Things could be worse, and likely will be soon but I’m still too numb to be angry & active.
sherpa17@reddit
Ahh, I love that series. I actually recommended the episode with Halloween to my hair stylist/barber recently. She's a Haitian immigrant who is perplexed by our love of that holiday
Nat1d20@reddit
I'm transgender (closet mtf) and I'm glad I hadn't started any HRT yet. My family is interracial on top of that, so fwiw, I feel ya OP...it's terrifying.
There's nowhere to go is the worst part, I'm in Michigan and thought this was a safe progressive state and it went to Trump.
I've discussed leaving the USA but I don't know where to go, Europe is only going to get more volatile with a Trump presidency (as far as Russia / Middle East goes). China / Japan / Taiwan, no thanks. Canada? Hah, they are next to go MAGA.
I've looked at some South American countries (Uruguay primarily) but again, how am I going to uproot my family, start over there, no jobs, can't speak the language etc..
My wife has tons of medical issues and even under our current system her medical bills are our largest expense. We have discussed getting divorced on paper because she can't work but keeps getting denied for disability, at least if we're divorced we can just let those medical bills pile up instead of blowing every cent we have to try to stay current.
I'm over this timeline, this place, I cannot believe we literally are voting to punish ourselves. We are voting for people that put policies in place that hurt us. Why is this so hard to understand? FUCK.
Professional-Pop-209@reddit
Because sadly a lot of people have ended up in their own echo chamber and have shut off or never been shown to think critically or have empathy. I talked to a few friends who were Trump supporters and they were surrounded by a culture the put him on a pedestal and made him out to be what is successful. I changed the mind of one person and that was because they had their kids literally day after day talking with them about how terrible their lives will be because of this. Those who I was the only dissent thought me to be very wrong and just not looking at things right because everyone they know can't all be wrong right? Same thing with those who joined Hitler. It will be only after untold suffering is experienced and seen will they change their minds if they live that long that is.
Pollux95630@reddit
No place is a safe space. The world is experiencing upheaval and turmoil, just as it has for many many centuries. Everything is cyclical. We are descending on the roller coaster of life once again. Hey, at least we got to experience things while they were semi-good, which will make you really appreciate how good we had it. Welcome to the next dark ages.
Fletcherrrrrr@reddit
https://fourthievesvinegar.org/
BACK2BACKSTACKNJACK@reddit
This should be top comment. When fascism comes to America, find yourself some anarchist pals.
gobeklitepewasamall@reddit
And imagine, the real fun hasn’t even begun yet. We can still turn the lights on at will.
Just wait til the carbon pulse really starts to fall off.
neu8ball@reddit
I've been posting a few places elsewhere, but just want to let you know that there are currently millions of Americans who feel like you do. There are millions of dumbass MAGA jackasses celebrating too, but fuck them.
Part of coping with collapse - or any traumatic event - is acknowledging you can only control what you can control. In this case, for the next four years, I can choose to fight for the ideals I believe in. I'm going to fight like hell for things critical healthcare for all, women's rights and equality, supporting the LGTBQ+ community, and taking meaningful climate action. I will CHOOSE to surround myself with people who share my views and will fight bigotry and hatred. We can't give up.
And if things truly get as bad as we fear...well, then my home will always be a safe haven for the persecuted, and I will die defending their lives.
8Deer-JaguarClaw@reddit
You may well be right, sadly.