Trump won by a slim margin that represents libertarian voters. Libertarians acted as kingmaker in this election. It's time to demand action on what we were promised!
Posted by Anen-o-me@reddit | Libertarian | View on Reddit | 77 comments
This election, libertarian voters largely turned away from Chase Oliver, the Libertarian Party candidate that no one wanted, and instead shifted their focus to the Republican candidate who, notably, had made concessions to appeal to libertarian sensibilities.
This wasn’t a mindless or reluctant decision, but rather a strategic choice that highlights a key tension within the libertarian movement: the need to balance ideological purity with pragmatic influence.
The Republican candidate recognized that the libertarian vote could be a decisive factor, especially in close races. In response, they made several significant concessions on issues that resonate deeply with libertarian voters, including policies promoting limited government, economic freedom, and individual rights.
By addressing these values, the candidate effectively extended an olive branch, promising at least some alignment with the principles that libertarians prioritize.
This move not only demonstrated an awareness of libertarian priorities but also reflected a broader political strategy to capture a traditionally independent-minded segment of the electorate.
For libertarians, the decision to support the Republican candidate was rooted in the potential for practical outcomes. Many libertarians saw this election as an opportunity to support a candidate who, while not perfectly aligned with all aspects of libertarian philosophy, might at least enact some policies that reflect libertarian ideals.
In a system dominated by two major parties, there is often a trade-off between voting for one’s principles and voting for influence. Supporting the Republican candidate in this case was, for some libertarians, a calculated choice that prioritized achieving some influence over the satisfaction of voting strictly along party lines.
This trend raises questions about the future of libertarian voting behavior and the party’s role in a deeply polarized system. Some libertarians believe that the only way to truly make an impact is to stick with Libertarian Party candidates, even if that means staying outside the realm of influence in national elections. They argue that voting outside the party is tantamount to diluting libertarian ideals, compromising the purity of the movement for short-term gains.
Others, however, see strategic voting as a way to incrementally bring libertarian values into mainstream politics. They argue that, by demonstrating a willingness to support candidates who address libertarian concerns, the movement can leverage its influence more effectively.
If candidates from other parties start to view libertarians as a swing vote, they might continue to adjust their platforms accordingly, which could ultimately lead to a political landscape where libertarian values have a seat at the table, even if indirectly.
This shift also highlights a possible pathway for growth within the Libertarian Party itself. By examining the issues that resonated with libertarian voters in this election, party strategists could refine their platform and messaging to emphasize these priorities even more strongly.
Perhaps, instead of framing ourselves as a strictly ideological alternative, Libertarian Party candidates could position themselves as practical advocates for freedom and limited government, emphasizing policies with broad appeal to voters who are frustrated by the traditional two-party system.
Notably, this is a position the two parties always wanted to prevent us from obtaining by ignoring us. Trump broke that pattern out of desperation.
In the end, this election cycle revealed a growing willingness among libertarians to prioritize influence over ideological purity, at least temporarily.
While Chase Oliver’s platform may have been the closest to libertarian ideals, it was the Republican candidate who acknowledged and respected the libertarian perspective, and for many voters, that was enough to earn their support.
The long-term impact of this decision remains to be seen, but it’s clear that libertarians are increasingly recognizing the need to balance our commitment to principles with the realities of political influence.
Whether this marks a turning point for the libertarian movement or simply a pragmatic response to a unique election cycle, it underscores a central tension within libertarian politics: how to stay true to one’s ideals while making a real impact in a system that often requires compromise.
This election may have demonstrated that, in some cases, a strategic alliance can be more powerful than ideological isolation—an idea that could shape the libertarian approach in future elections.
If Trump respects his promises to libertarians and makes significant changes in a libertarian direction, this anomaly could become a trend. But only if libertarians are willing to punish a candidate for ignoring us, and support one on either side that makes concessions to libertarian ideals and concerns.
HeavyEmployee6374@reddit
HeavyEmployee6374@reddit
AbolishtheDraft@reddit
A great test will be Ross Ulbricht. Trump promised to pardon Ross, and he has the power to unilaterally do so on Day 1. We need to start pressuring him on that now
pcrcf@reddit
Freeing Ross ulbricht is very low on my personal totem pole of priority list items
phatsuit2@reddit
Then you are a joke.
pcrcf@reddit
Ok then explain to me why ulbricht should be prioritized over Edward Snowden being pardoned
Anen-o-me@reddit (OP)
Snowden have been convicted, and the CIA would murder him if he came back either way.
pcrcf@reddit
Your argument isn’t valid because the president has the power to pardon the accused at any stage after the crime is committed.
https://www.scotusblog.com/2021/01/the-supreme-court-and-the-presidents-pardon-power/
The CIA bit is conjecture, and something brought up without evidence can be dismissed without evidence
unwaivering@reddit
It is absolutely not conjecture, and you know that! Everyone following Assange's case over the last 14 years knows that. If you don't know that go back and do 14 years worth of research.
Anen-o-me@reddit (OP)
Huh, I'd heard the opposite. Thanks.
unwaivering@reddit
Honestly I think he's going to fail with that just like he did with Assange in 2020.
lordbah@reddit
He had 4 years in power to do something, but didn't. So we know it's not his principled position. He won't be running for President again, so no longer has any need to make promises to libertarians. So it's not a tactical advantage for him to do it. Thus he won't.
AToastyDolphin@reddit
I think it could also be the opposite. He could get more done if he doesn’t have to worry about getting impeached or going for reelection.
lotuz@reddit
The drug dealer? Really?
Stockholmedstatist@reddit
I thought it was to commute his sentence. He still gets out. I just want to make sure I understand it correctly. Not a full pardon.
Head_ChipProblems@reddit
I know it might be silly, but maybe people can tag him on twitter with a list of his day 1 promises.
Anen-o-me@reddit (OP)
Damn right.
lizardflix@reddit
Vote according to how closely the candidate aligns the CLOSEST with your political philosophy...like most sane people.
Maybe don't act like petulant children when a candidate makes an effort to reach out in an unprecedented manner and is a guest.
Then, be disappointed in some ways and happy in others when your candidate doesn't live up to your ideals 100%... like most sane people.
unwaivering@reddit
Maybe don't invite the candidate to give a speech if you know it won't be received well.
FrancoisTruser@reddit
This. Purity tests are so ridiculous.
BIBLICALTHINKER2@reddit
I voted for chase 😢
unwaivering@reddit
Me too! Because I believe in supporting the candidate of the party who's principles you stand for! For me right now that's the LP, as far as the platform goes. I'm not exactly happy with the current chair as far as inviting Trump to the convention this year. Oh, and the convention live streaming leaves a whole lot to be desired, but that's another story for another day. I do actually like Angela, I just think inviting Trump was a huge mistake!
CigaretteTrees@reddit
Maybe instead of booing the one candidate that tried to reach out across the isle we should’ve bargained for more, being principled is great and all but we should take the small strategic victories where we can and use our voting power as a bargaining chip to demand more.
unwaivering@reddit
Maybe we should've never invited him to the convention to give a speech instead.
rcrossler@reddit
I have seen only one Chase Oliver ad in the last couple weeks. Today, I saw 5… after the election is over.
Bonded_22@reddit
Free Ross, release Epstein files, pardon Julian, release JFK files, end the FED
elitegreg88@reddit
Fire or arrest FBI agents and bosses who were involved in such things as the Twitter files and the laptop disinformation hoax.
immortalsauce@reddit
This is spot on. He pandered HARD to the libertarians. And it helped that Oliver was a weak candidate relative to previous LP candidates. Given Oliver’s horrible turnout, libertarians must be at least somewhat responsible for Trump’s victory. He owes us and he better not fuck this up.
sleepnandhiken@reddit
What was his sell for you? Cause to me it looked like he campaigned on raising taxes. Wasn’t the last time the federal income tax rate adjusted his thing too?
Exciting_Vast7739@reddit
I was tempted when Elon Musk started talking about bringing Ron Paul in for the Department of Federal Bureaucracy Bloodletting, er, Efficiency.
sleepnandhiken@reddit
So A gets B’s nomination and B says C will get a powerful, yet limited, roll in A’s admin. Kinda surprised that outweighs actively campaigning for a new tax when it comes to the no taxes crowd.
Walter30573@reddit
I don't understand how a candidate pushing enormous tariffs comes across as pandering to Libertarians either tbh. That goes against all economics back to Adam Smith
Anen-o-me@reddit (OP)
Yep, exactly. IMO we should push for a libertarian VP soon.
HTownLaserShow@reddit
What? Lol.
He won in a landslide. Over 5mm in the popular vote (and still counting) and over 300 electoral votes.
Slim margin my ass.
Anen-o-me@reddit (OP)
~5% - 10% of Americans are independent / libertarian.
HTownLaserShow@reddit
Oh I know.
I’m saying Trump destroyed Harris.
steadyachiever@reddit
Trump doesn’t really seem like he gives a shit though, does he? I mean I watched his speech last night and it was…short on specifics…to say the least. Is anyone convinced that he is going to do anything other than protect himself and line his own pockets?
What can we do, specifically, as citizens? How do we protect our liberties against his specific brand of strong-man authoritarianism?
CheeseHeadBro@reddit
You mean the speech from a 78 year old man at 3 am after running around the country like crazy person for the last few weeks didn’t have a ton of details….not sure what you were expecting. I’m just glad he was attempting to unify the country. Not talking down to one side or throwing shots at Kamala.
steadyachiever@reddit
I was really really hoping he was going to attempt to unify the county. Unfortunately, he didn’t even mention his opponent or those who voted against him : /
CheeseHeadBro@reddit
What were you watching exactly? He literally said
“We’re going to help our country heal.”
“And every citizen, I will fight for you, for your family and your future, every single day I will be fighting for you with every breath in my body…”
“It’s time to put the divisions of the past four years behind us. It’s time to unite.”
Wallio_@reddit
I wouldn't exactly call 5.1 million votes "slim".
Anen-o-me@reddit (OP)
He won by a couple percent, about 4%, and libertarians represent and 5% of the population.
I have no doubt that had Trump not come to the libertarian convention and made crazy concessions to libertarians such as promising to end taxes, free Ross, and put a libertarian in, that he might not have won.
Libertarians are 4% of the State of Pennsylvania and guess what, Trump won the State by 2.9% over Harris.
RunItBack2024@reddit
And you think all 2.9% were Libertarians?
SemiruralYeti@reddit
A couple percent in the popular vote for a republican is astronomical. Hasn’t happened in like 6 elections
stuckat1@reddit
Democrats teach 2+2=5.
berkough@reddit
Yeah, based on current numbers, if you take all other candidates combined, it's still only just a little over 2 million votes. Kamala would need another 3+ million votes.
DeArgonaut@reddit
It’ll likely be closer when all the votes are counted. I remember seeing Hillary’s lead grow in 2016 as the days went by and California counted more votes
INTHERORY@reddit
Dude y'all aren't getting shit
Beginning-Town-7609@reddit
Trump didn’t win by a slim margin at all. He won in a landslide in both the EC and the popular vote.
Anen-o-me@reddit (OP)
2.9% in Pennsylvania.
DimeadozenNerd@reddit
If you voted for Trump, you’re not a libertarian.
Turin-The-Turtle@reddit
Womp womp
Daves_not_here_mannn@reddit
Generalizations are never good. (See what I did there 🤣)
Humor aside, the no true Scotsman isn’t fair. Now, I didn’t vote for trump because I wanted to send a message. But I don’t think it’s fair to say that anyone who didn’t vote for Chase Oliver, who is as crazy, or crazier than the other 2, isn’t a libertarian. We have our own reasons for our own votes, and blanket statements like this are unfair, unwarranted, inaccurate, and can do more harm than good.
DimeadozenNerd@reddit
Not a No True Scotsman in this case. There’s nothing libertarian about Trump.
Daves_not_here_mannn@reddit
I would agree. But he did say (and we do know how dubious speeches are) that he would bring some libertarian influences into his administration.
Also, I think most would agree that Harris was less libertarian minded than trump. So if someone wanted to help influence actual results, trump would have been the better option than Oliver.
I voted for Oliver. I was hoping to get the libertarian party to 5%, but even I knew that was a long shot.
DimeadozenNerd@reddit
Yeah, Harris is less libertarian than Trump. But that’s not saying much. Neither are even remotely close to libertarian.
Not sure what results a libertarian voting for Trump is hoping to get. It’ll be more debt, more control over our lives, and more corruption.
Historical_Pound_136@reddit
That’s funny cause I’m the only real libertarian. Therefore you’re not a libertarian
RebelliousStripes_@reddit
You feel better now little buddy?
RocksCanOnlyWait@reddit
You're vastly overplaying the influence that LP had on the election.
JoJo received 1.2% of the popular vote in 2020. Oliver is sitting at around 0.5% the last I looked. And RFK Jr. siphoned away some of that popular vote, i.e. the LP vote difference didn't all go to Trump.
Many libertarians were already going with Trump before his appearance at the LP convention. Many went with him in 2020 too after he attempted to reign in government and foreign intervention.
However, this is the correct conclusion. Libertarians should stop being all-or-nothing. If it moves the needle closer to the end goal, it's a win. Instead of trying to move in leaps, focus instead on a achieving steady movement in the direction of less government.
whoisit1977@reddit
Add them all together and you couldnt win a state much less a country
Lightning444416@reddit
Wyoming?
soonPE@reddit
Hehehehe you really believe that right?
Leneord1@reddit
I voted for Chase Oliver
cmv_lawyer@reddit
You've got this exactly right. Many votes for the libertarian candidate are a sign we weren't invited to either major party coalition. Few votes mean we've been won over.
Losing is winning. Winning is losing.
berkough@reddit
Even before Angela was elected, I was pushing for local elections.... Local elections need candidates though. I still think that's the way forward for the party. We need to build the ladder from the lowest rungs first.
vollmas@reddit
Is there any reason for the Libertarian party to exist as a political party anymore? Why not just a libertarian PAC?
Lakerdog1970@reddit
I think she probably lost by too much for our votes to matter, but perhaps in some states.
It does blow my mind that they can't at least try to buy us libertarians off with a tax cut. I mean, so their deficit spending goes from "a lot" to "a little more than a lot"???? And by the time any of the bills come due, they won't be in office anymore.
I mean, if I wanted to run for office, I'd pander like a motherfucker, lol. :)
Also just so many of these dumb social issues where you can kinda see where liberals are coming from philosophically, but there's no policy to back it up. And it's all these issues that really are state and local issues and not possible to tackle at the federal level. Like how does gay marriage get addressed at the federal level when marriage laws are at the state level.......and marriage laws don't have anything to do with acceptance and kindness......just how alimony works when a lawyer who earns $500k/year divorces a yoga instructor who works for tips. Now the gay lawyers pay alimony when they leave a gay yoga instructor just like how straight lawyers paid alimony to ex-wives who worked in fitness.
It's just all so dumb.
ShturmansPinkBussy@reddit
Strategic voting in battlegrounds and voting LP in other states is the indisputable way to go for US libertarians. If your state isn't being seriously contested there is no point to voting "pragmatically" because it won't matter. It's disappointing that the LP didn't get a higher vote share in the non-contested states.
And for fuck's sake they need to try to get libertarian-leaning ex-Republicans on the ballot, someone with some name recognition like Amash, Massie, even Rand Paul. This is ridiculous, Chase was literally a nobody. The most successful run to date was Gary Johnson, a former Governor .
AngryTurtleGaming@reddit
The fact RFK got 500k votes after dropping out is insane. That was LITERALLY a wasted vote.
PassProtect15@reddit
it’s equally as impactful as a vote for Chase Oliver would have been
it’s a protest vote and one that signals total dissatisfaction with any of the other candidates.
I think RFK‘s economic views are dumb as fuck and his take on Israel makes no sense whatsoever, but I totally understand why someone would vote for RFK in this election
Duc_de_Magenta@reddit
Except RFK Jr. endorsed Trump & fought to get off the ballot. Completely different from Oliver or Stein (who nominally still wanted to win).
Tomithy83@reddit
No... That was a protest vote. It's better than those people not voting. They're not apathetic, they're announcing their disgust.
TheOlSneakyPete@reddit
I voted for him in a blue state, that vote wasnt going to make a difference but wanted to show support for any 3rd party candidate.
BadMansBooze@reddit
I completely agree with you and that's the most sensible response to this election.
We should exert our power as kingmakers, after all, there is no presidential election that I can remember that wouldn't have won if they had the LP vote. However, we won't. We'll go back to thinking that we have an actual shot to win elections and voting on principles knowing we'll never get a single piece of policy.
But it wouldn't be the Libertarian Party if the LP didn't fuck up a good thing.
AldruhnHobo@reddit
Look man I really wish we'd had a stronger candidate and party overall but when it's down to choice it's just common sense.
ClapDemCheeks1@reddit
Probably a combo between LP and RFK endorsements. With a slight tip into RFK imo.
phatsuit2@reddit
Hell yeah!!!!! May be controversial but I think Libertarians shouldn't even have a pres candidate until we are big enough. We know our power now! LFG!