California doesn’t make sense
Posted by AccomplishedPoint465@reddit | Libertarian | View on Reddit | 107 comments
“Prohibits the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation from punishing incarcerated persons for refusing a work assignment. Allows incarcerated persons to voluntarily accept work assignments in exchange for credit to reduce their sentences.”
But they’ll virtue signal online, don’t pay attention to the fact that these votes against rent control (I’m against) are all from LA and the bay. Rich posers that don’t even believe the shit they preach. If you gave a fuck about minorities let’s just acknowledge the fucking elephant dude. More PEOPLE are on the street than ever, and are incarcerated more than ever. At least they voted for stronger sentences for drug offenses(mentioned fent in the prop specifically) and theft, but they’ll never admit they did. No, the leftists in California are holier than thou. They’re actually decent human beings… yeah fucking right. They’ll protect their shit over your life and point the finger at GOP for being the worst thing since satan. Be up front about what you want.
nepatsfan49@reddit
Californian here. They have played funny games with the wording on propositions for so long now, most people have trained themselves to just vote no on everything down the line.
YoureInGoodHands@reddit
I developed a strategy several years ago, "No unless there's a good reason" and voting on propositions I don't understand is much easier now.
ancherrera@reddit
Good reason is not enough for me to vote yes. It has to be almost a "no brainer" reason
browsinbruh@reddit
Ohio did this with our issue 1 this year. Now we get the privilege of letting politicians continue fuck us in the ass with super gerrymandered districts
Krawen13@reddit
What a coincidence that the very same people doing the ass fucking are the same people who write the bs ballot language
The_Pudge@reddit
Same thing happened to me in Colorado in 2020. Luckily the rest of the state picked up the slack from my dyslexic ass.
eddington_limit@reddit
I was gonna say the wording for this is really weird. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people were just confused on which one meant they were for the proposition.
MarioKartPrime@reddit
Yeah, trying to decipher what anything means through so many double negatives was exhausting. What was the affordable housing one this time? "Vote to repeal the law that blocked the government from passing law to expand their ability to enact rent control."
poorsoul-1022@reddit
Since I have left California I have told many people across my travels that California Democrats are the most racist cronist politicians in the world trying to work toward some form of Chinese communism. They want laws so they have criminals they want criminals so they have slaves. They don’t want immigration fixed because then the farmers and businesses (who pay the democrats) would have to pay immigrants fair wages which means prices would go up or they would have to invest in new technology which means less illegal immigration less support etc.
It’s about power, and they will do everything they cannot to maintain it. There is an elite class in California and there is everyone else that they are trying to enslave.
brvheart@reddit
Californians know what democrats do when given rope. It’s best to always vote no.
plastic_Man_75@reddit
If you do the crime, you gotta do the time.
gabrielolsen13@reddit
Yeah, this is horrifying to me
The_Argentine_Stoic@reddit
So working in jails is wrong now? 54% say its OK...
AccomplishedPoint465@reddit (OP)
Working? Absolutely not. You volunteer to work, you don’t force chained men to fight wildfires though.
mountaineer30680@reddit
That actually happened? And they voted for it to CONTINUE? Wow... TIL
scaryjobob@reddit
It didn't.
scaryjobob@reddit
I can respect your point, but prisoners are not forced to fight fires. That's an earned job.
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-06-04/why-is-it-hard-former-prisoners-become-firefighters-california
Pizza_Ninja@reddit
Wouldn’t this also include sentences like community service? That’s forced free labor. Too vaguely worded for me.
AlexThugNastyyy@reddit
I guess giving someone options of community services vs jail would make it not involuntary.
Pizza_Ninja@reddit
I can dig it. Maybe I’m overthinking it but I feel like community service should have been mentioned specifically to avoid confusion.
AccomplishedPoint465@reddit (OP)
Involuntary servitude as a punishment for crime. If you consent to community service that’s preferable. But if you don’t, we just sentence you to jail for the original crime. What this would actually do, is make it unconstitutional to punish an existing inmate for not consenting to work in the kitchen, for example.
HTownLaserShow@reddit
Which is ridiculous. And why it will hopefully never pass.
To a certain extent, you have relinquished your rights when you decided to violate the rights of someone else (the victim)
So I don’t follow you here
Pplmaooo@reddit
exapmle: you have an ounce of weed on you for personal use
situation: you smell like it and a cop searches you, arrests you, and takes your weed
consequence: slave for the state for 5 years
not all crimes especially in this shitty country have a victim
HTownLaserShow@reddit
Uhhh…that’s a 6 month sentence, and a fine, AT WORST.
Nobody does prison time for “just weed” anymore. I hate to break it to you.
And the majority of people in prison, are violent. (Just facts)
So while I totally appreciate where you are trying to go here, it just isn’t reality and not the kind of situation that frequently happens anymore.
Daves_not_here_mannn@reddit
You can be forced to work in a county jail too.
And source on most prisoners being violent?
HTownLaserShow@reddit
Nice attempt. You can look that up on Google.
Literally dozens of sources on this.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States
Pplmaooo@reddit
obviously my comment was an exaggeration but there are hundreds of crimes that are victimless and carry huge sentences possessing “illegal” firearms running a gambling business drug trafficking
HTownLaserShow@reddit
Well, yeah.
But you’re still talking about an extreme minority of the prison population.
70% of the prison population are violent offenders. Another nearly 20% are sexual crimes.
So non violent prisons make up around 10%? Granted, more than zero, but to scrap the work program because you don’t think some guy busted for a gun crime needs to work on the kitchen? (Which non violent guys get the good jobs, BTW)….come on
AlexThugNastyyy@reddit
Legislators have to be the laziest group of human refuse imaginable. They have to write all these shitty vague laws on purpose because they always seem to go out of their way to make laws inefficient and terrible.
Pizza_Ninja@reddit
You’re not wrong. Intentionally vague describes most of our nation’s laws.
The_Argentine_Stoic@reddit
Interesting point of view... I thought they should pay for their own spending one way or another. Instead of relying on taxpayers pockets.
archelon24@reddit
They should have the option to work for wages, which goes straight to paying off their expenses. Anything they make on top of that they can keep when they are released.
The_Argentine_Stoic@reddit
Should they be given food if they don't work? What about the guards wages?
Quiet_Bend1653@reddit
Have you ever worked with fire crews?
grendev@reddit
I thought the firefighters were 100% voluntary. But yes, I get not having forced labor.
fatheroceallaigh@reddit
CA voted for Harris, who famously kept prisoners in jail to use as slave labor after they should have been freed. According to the evidence, CA seems to be in favor of slavery. Interesting.
Ohwell03@reddit
They did the same thing here in louisiana they won't pass the law to abolish slavery because then they can't work the inmates and get free labor or basically free labor
I_HopeThat_WasFart@reddit
This, lots of states do this. Usually you can labor when sentenced and get time taken off.
AccomplishedPoint465@reddit (OP)
My issue is when it’s involuntary
MarquisDeBoston@reddit
I don’t have an issue with putting criminals to work. I work everyday. Lounging about a cell isn’t good mentally or physically. So long as the conditions are humane, I have no issues with involuntary labor - with one caveat. The state should not make $$ from it. Can’t incentive the state to grow inmate population. But you can ensure those who are incarcerated are being productive members of society even if it isn’t by choice - it’s a punishment.
AccomplishedPoint465@reddit (OP)
I don’t have an issue with putting inmates who want to work, to work. What I have an issue with is involuntary labor being punishment. Punishment and involuntary are the key words for me.
HTownLaserShow@reddit
Yes. Let’s let convicted felons decide what they want to do everyday.
Dude, it’s work and paying off a debt to society. Just send them to a country club next time with your line of thinking
AccomplishedPoint465@reddit (OP)
What a straw man 😂
HTownLaserShow@reddit
How? Lol. It’s directly addressing your point.
Do you know what a Strawman is?
AccomplishedPoint465@reddit (OP)
You over simplified the fuck out of what I said haha
HTownLaserShow@reddit
Well, yeah. Simple is better.
But that’s not a strawman, bro.
throwawaymane17@reddit
How can you consider yourself libertarian if you literally let the state enslave people LMFAO
cbph@reddit
Libertarian, not an anarchist. If they committed a crime and got convicted and appropriately sentenced, so long as the punishment doesn't violate the Constitution by being cruel and unusual, it's not enslavement.
HTownLaserShow@reddit
They’ve enslaved themselves, no?
MrToyotaMan@reddit
Let’s complicate things then. When my dad worked for the prison system the cost per inmate to the taxpayers was about 35k per year depending on the security level of the prison. It’s a little higher now but that’s the last definitive number I have. Correctional Industries uses inmate labor to offset some of those costs. They are literally paying a debt to society. There are definitely problems with how our prison system operates but forcing inmates to work isn’t one of them. Especially since it goes directly towards the burden of keeping them incarcerated. They have a debt to pay and giving them free room and board with tons of free time shouldn’t solely rest on my tax dollars
Behemoth92@reddit
How does involuntary labor work in prisons? I’m curious. Do people get beat if they don’t meet rock breaking quotas or something? Or is it work in exchange of something?
dildo-swaggn38@reddit
In Georgia you work an assigned detail. Refusal results in segregation and transfer to a higher security facility. Usually a real shitty one because administration is spiteful. Work does not decrease sentence
Behemoth92@reddit
Gotcha. Makes sense.
I_HopeThat_WasFart@reddit
You can elect to work and get time taken off your sentence in return.
ConcertCareful6169@reddit
In Louisiana they have a work release program that basically allows inmates to work outside in the real world with everyone else. Granted it's usually factory work. I worked with a few of them at a Chicken processing plant for a few years and I'll be completely honest that job sucked so bad my hands killed me every day worst job ever. However these guys didn't get time off of there sentences the only perk was they got paid and didn't spend their entire day in lockup. They only received $2 an hour of their pay. The company pays minimum wage but the Parish takes all but the $2 an hour to cover room and board at the jail. Now I actually agree with this mostly. The problem is if your prisoner is working then you shouldn't be getting the same amount of tax dollars to cover that inmate from the state. But they do so they try and have as many inmates as possible on work release so they can take in the extra money from their wages.
I_HopeThat_WasFart@reddit
Sounds rough. But they also worked for their wages
ConcertCareful6169@reddit
I'm glad they have the opportunity to do that. My complaint is the parish is double dipping. If an inmate is able and willing to work and generate cash flow to pay for their "room & board" typically these guys work 10 hours shifts 6 days a week that's around 430 a week before taxes so the parish keeps about 300 a week of their wages so 1200 a month seems to be plenty of money to cover one person.why must the taxpayers also pay for that person as well.
theefaulted@reddit
Can you explain how it's involuntary? What do they do to them if the refuse to do the work?
TheRedLions@reddit
What about saving money? California, for instance, uses prisoners for fire fighting efforts and saves an incredible amount of money by effectively not paying them
I_HopeThat_WasFart@reddit
Let’s also be real. If you did a crime worthy of requiring work to reduce sentence you probably were not just arrested for a DUI
Anti-SocialChange@reddit
Funny that you use DUI as your example when it causes about 60% as many deaths as murder in the US.
I_HopeThat_WasFart@reddit
Funny how you use a crime as wide as one day in jail to murder in your argument. You came in here spewing a stat way off the context of the conversation. Leave troll
Anti-SocialChange@reddit
It’s not trolling, you’re seriously mistaken as to how bad morally a DUI is. Its causes more deaths and harms than most crimes that you clearly think are appropriate crimes for making people into involuntary servants.
I_HopeThat_WasFart@reddit
The fuk? It was used as an example to the argument. You are 100% trolling
Anti-SocialChange@reddit
No sorry about that. I completely misread your comment with another comment thread and mixed them together. Just went back and re-read it and yeah, I get what you were saying.
I_HopeThat_WasFart@reddit
Be better
TheRedLions@reddit
It's California though, your crime could be murder or it could just be growing fungi. It's a slippery slope when the state is the arbiter of what's "bad enough" to warrant involuntary work
I_HopeThat_WasFart@reddit
They agree to it and they are paid by the reduction in their debt to society
TheRedLions@reddit
That's for voluntary labor though. By definition, involuntary labor is not inherently agreed to
Drew1231@reddit
This is how you end up forcing prisoners to move couriers from one side of the yard to the other all day
Tiethus@reddit
While I don't agree with involuntary servitude, how does that work with the 13th amendment that specifically calls out it can be for punishment for a crime? If the proposition passed, could it be declared unconstitutional in court?
SweatyRussian@reddit
inmates should serve on the front lines
isausernamebob@reddit
What about this doesn't make sense? What, you really think the Dems changed sides since they lost the civil war?
SnacksandKhakis@reddit
Does it have any connection to banning companies that benefit from slave labor? I ask because of Apple and cobalt. I could probably look this up, but I admit, I’m being lazy.
Equivalent_Sun3816@reddit
Almost everyone in California has been a victim of a crime. We're tired if it and sympathy for criminals is at an all-time low. All it takes is for someone to steel your catalytic converter, and you too will be pro slavery.
SnufflesStructure@reddit
I get that you were being a bit tongue-in-cheek and I laughed. Thanks!
Equivalent_Sun3816@reddit
That was my intent. It went over some peoples heads. This issue is very complex.
AccomplishedPoint465@reddit (OP)
Agree to disagree pal
ThisIsALine_____@reddit
They're being sarcastic
pizzagangster1@reddit
Would have helped when Kamala was the state ag
kiaran@reddit
If slavery is defined as involuntary servitude, then technically we're all slaves of the government when we pay taxes.
Ergo, taxes are now illegal.
blacksan00@reddit
How many rich people have maids, nanny, and servant working for nothing live over there?
Ehronatha@reddit
"Working for nothing"?
Do you mean literally or figuratively? All those service providers definitely charge for their services. There is a demand for this labor, and it seems hard to be deported just for working illegally.
blacksan00@reddit
I am talking about modern slavery where people work for boarding and food rations only. I remember stories of the past where people will bring their Nanny on a Nanny Visa to the states and when they were interviewed on how much they got paid, they were confused.
AccomplishedPoint465@reddit (OP)
To be fair I’d be stereotyping but yeah. Landlords in the “nice and urban” areas. Tech bros and university 20 somethings. Always gonna be the most fake people lol
LazyClerk408@reddit
I voted against the theft one
ninjacereal@reddit
Why did they put "theft or drug crimes" in the same vote. Those are two vastly different issues that people are likely to have different opinions about.
monkeyburrito411@reddit
EXACTLY.
TheAdmiralofAckbar@reddit
Commies gonna commie.
Plastic-Bluebird2491@reddit
this was mainly around involuntary servitude in prisons. seems a bit of a stretch to call that slavery
Special-Estimate-165@reddit
They need their free fire fighting.
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
California loves prison labor. Their former AG turned VP, turned failed POTUS candidate used to lock people up to use as slave labor, even keeping them beyond their sentences.
supersecretsquirel@reddit
Can we just cut them loose or take over?? Waiting for the other show to drop with California’s ridiculousness is exhausting.
motosandguns@reddit
Will be ironic if people are thrown in jail for stealing then have to make what they stole in prison…
FAK3-News@reddit
Who is going to prison in California? Harris is not top cop anymore.
AccomplishedPoint465@reddit (OP)
We did pass Prop 36 and it undid a bad Prop 47 in 2014. That was basically our anything stolen under $950 was a slap on the wrist. 36 basically says if you have 2 other similar charges in the past, it’s a felony. It was a good correction. The only opposition they put on the ballet were fiscal cost and “increased state court workload” lmaoo
Can’t buy anyone is worried about fiscal cost of fucking anything in California. We passed Prop 35 that states “make permanent an existing tax on managed health care insurance plans that provides funding for the state's Medi-Cal health care program.” So our plan is to just keep printing money apparently..
KobraHashatashi@reddit
did what could in my state to make my voice heard on these issues. all you can do really, i think prisoners can be rehabilitated better than a chain gang program.
FAK3-News@reddit
I saw that, and was not surprised to hear that Ca had a ~70B deficit last year. Who knew things cost money???
AccomplishedPoint465@reddit (OP)
libertarianinus@reddit
Now, do they throw people in jail or give community service.
Guess it's Jail and fines for people now
KushinLos@reddit
Apparently they listened to Kanye and decided to get rid of involuntary servitude as a punishment for crime
iroll20s@reddit
I always wonder about the wording on the ballot for some of these. The summary on the certainly seems a lot more inflammatory. I know in my state we've had wording come across with double or triple negative to try and confuse people into voting one way.
robotic_otter28@reddit
“So you sue him and he has to become your butler?”
SomeRandomDevPerson@reddit
Did they somehow relate this to M/s relationships?
broomosh@reddit
I vote in CA and I was blown away how out of step the results were.
We won't raise the minimum wage and we want slavery...
XenuPintrestWarrior@reddit
The more I think of this, especially in the context of it being California, the more messed up this is. Just... wow
RonaldFKNSwanson@reddit
Never has