Crew member debate strategies
Posted by 7layeredAIDS@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 180 comments
This is not a “boo we lost” or “yay we won” type of post but it is absolutely relevant to safety of flight (and to some degree mental health lol)
As crew members we are told to absolutely keep politics/religion/topics of controversy out of the flight deck, for obvious reasons. Our companies routinely send out reminders of such near election times. At all costs I try. I fly long haul with people of a different demographic pretty much every flight and to no fault of my own it comes up probably 70% of the time usually before we even leave the gate! I’m not kidding! It’s amazing to me to how either the captain or FO’s will bring these topics up as if they assume everyone agrees with them. It’s usually one statement thrown out as a “test the waters” type of thing and ends up being a rant
So what techniques do you guys and gals use to squash this? The book answer is something professional like “ah I don’t like talking politics”. This in my experience doesn’t really work - it’s the same divide as saying “I don’t agree with you”. Because if you do agree, you’ll gladly jump right in and contribute to the discussion. By saying you don’t like to talk about whatever is being talked about, the starter of the conversation knows you don’t agree. And then right away the same barrier is thrown up.
The best thing I’ve found is sort of the “smile and nod” approach without adding significantly to the conversation. You don’t need to go full in on passionately agreeing with the other side, just acknowledge their points and in a sort of positive way and don’t add to it. smiles “ha I know man, I know. it’s crazy” (or something similar) And leave it at that. They’ll usually run out of stuff to ramble on about fairly quickly since there’s no back and forth and you haven’t shut them down by saying “don’t talk about that” in a confrontational way.
That’s how I do it. Sort of works. What’s your experience and any suggestions on how to handle it? Are you one of the ones that does bring up these topics? I know you’re out there and it’s a lot of you!
TheSi11iestGoose@reddit
"I pretty much stopped keeping up with politics after I lost my ability to vote due to my criminal record." E-Z.
coolkirk1701@reddit
I’m not sure if there’s any good way to handle this from a dispatch perspective but I was actually considering it earlier today and decided if anyone tried to start an ACARS conversation about it my response would be either “I’d rather not discuss controversial issues on a recorded line”, “I’d rather not discuss politics lest it jeopardize crew resource management”, or just simply ignoring any ACARS that tried to talk politics.
DanThePilot_Man@reddit
Just agree with everything, see how far you can get them to go
nopal_blanco@reddit
I’ve had one captain legitimately tell me the earth is flat by using this method.
Good-Cardiologist121@reddit
Dan cummins- "idiots of the internet" touches on this.
Grand-Apartment-546@reddit
WHIPPLE
Good-Cardiologist121@reddit
It's not a matter of IF it will kill you. It's a matter of fucking when!!
condor120@reddit
hm e175 flair. If you were at YX and ORD based then I've also worked with them
Mustang_289@reddit
“My dad was an engineer on the Apollo missions and he lied to me! We never went to the moon!”
-Boomer CA after I poked the bear
mustang__1@reddit
Honestly... If I had someone keep agreement I might just see how far I can push it. I've gotten friends calling me saying "you told {someone} {something}??? Cause they think you're fucking crazy now"...
Atalkingstranger@reddit
I don't get how that's possible lol. You can pretty much confirm that it is round once you're up at 40k feet lol.
N546RV@reddit
That's just optical distortion from the windshield. At high altitudes the delta-p due to cabin pressurization causes the windows to bulge outward and effectively become a fisheye lens.
/s
CaptainReginaldLong@reddit
Also your eyeball is round so everything you see is rounded, the horizon is perfectly flat
scrubhiker@reddit
Dang, I got to “plate tectonics is false” with one guy but I’m surprised you found an honest to goodness flat-earther.
Icommentwhenhigh@reddit
Omg how?
burningtowns@reddit
Quite frankly if they start going with conspiracy theories, I’m finding a way to one up them.
“Pfffft. You believe in the moon?”
throwaway_tiredcap@reddit
You don’t even have to “agree”. On top of the ol’ reliable “hmm” and “oh?” sprinkled in, you just have to sit there. Just sit there, look at them, and feign interest. It’s amazing how much people will talk and what they will say, when they simply assume you’re on their side.
More often than not, saying “ah?” followed by a pause is enough for them to launch into even more bigoted and crass ramblings. Or kooky alien theories. Or misogynistic insults about their spouse. Or recounting heroic tales of all these women who totally wanted you that absolutely definitely happened.
I put up with it only to keep the peace. I work with you a few days and maybe I don’t see you for a few months, maybe I don’t see you the rest of my career. Who knows. I have also found that if you let them just get it all off their chest all in one big opinionated swoop, they effectively blow their load and they’re good for the rest of the trip. Makes it easier to “mmhmm yeah wow” out of the situation and aren’t usually inclined to “okay so anyway here’s more of my racist opinions”, especially if there’s a ATC interruption or something and their train of thought skews.
e_pilot@reddit
so much fun having to be the bigger person to maintain CRM, love this job sometimes
throwaway_tiredcap@reddit
2020: the year I removed “it is what it is” from my vocabulary.
I flew last weekend for the first time in a while. I got to spend 2 days listening to the other guy spew the most crude and racist and misogynistic stuff.
On the layover “text me if you go out and do anything!”
Narrator: needless to say, he did not text the other guy.
CluelessPilot1971@reddit
Sascha Barron Cohen made a whole career based on this premise.
throwaway_tiredcap@reddit
It’s a standard interview/documentary/gonzo journalist tactic, so I’m sure he and others have inadvertently influenced me. People often feel obligated to fill the silence - sometimes nervously, sometimes because they just like to yap (and again just assume you’re ‘on their side’).
e_pilot@reddit
Not getting their jokes and making them explain why it’s funny has been a mainstay for me for years.
ATACB@reddit
Or double down and propose an even crazier theory. Yeah Covid was a hoax but you believe in birds ?!?
deathwatcher1@reddit
Ihonestly i do 1 of 2 things from the start, if I know a lot about politics I will instead ask to discuss it with them but not the politicians or the party and make an agreement where if one of us says end we ned the talk then and there. the second is if I don't know too much about politics I I just say that and move to another topic
JadedJared@reddit
I tell them what my views are and stand by them. You know what happens? We have thoughtful conversations and a lot of the time I get a “oh, never thought about it like that.”
Everyone has opinions and believe it or not people, even pilots, like to have civil conversations with people they disagree with.
In our line of work, when you’re stuck in the flight deck for hours, conversations can get pretty deep. I personally avoid politics and religion but somehow they get brought up all the time and I’ve had some very interesting conversations about things I never would have thought I’d have with a “co-worker.”
Don’t be afraid to be yourself and if someone is talking shit about your politics as they assume you are of a different persuasion, what shuts them up real quick is to tell them you are whatever they despise.
kswift-76@reddit
Upgrade
FlyingDiver58@reddit
I was flying recently with a guy who wanted to explain how wanting to preserve the confederacy isn’t racist. I farted and hand-grenaded him as I reached for the checklist. It didn’t stop him from talking but I took pleasure in knowing I just did that. I was a little less annoyed afterwards.
RGN_Preacher@reddit
Smile, nod, damn that’s crazy.
Bruno617@reddit
This is it. I do it every time.
Vladeath@reddit
A wordsmith here, it would have taken me a paragraph to write the same thing.
IFlyPA28II@reddit
Worked and still work at a FBO, and that is the best way to get those douche bags away from me lol.
RGN_Preacher@reddit
Successful application of this during breakfast this morning with my boss.
You’re not going to change anyone’s mind on how they vote or believe.
N546RV@reddit
I employ this every time I talk to my parents on the phone, because my mother is wholly incapable of having a conversation without injecting something about killer vaccines at some point.
livebeta@reddit
Damn, that is crazy!
N546RV@reddit
Mmmmhmm.
livebeta@reddit
*sturgeon face + nods
Why-R-People-So-Dumb@reddit
I don't fly professionally but I have clients that are all walks of life and I always need to tread carefully. This is usually my go to approach. You don't have to roll over completely just don't ever add your opinion where it's not likely to be a civil discussion. My go to when I'm stuck between lying or getting sucked in is "personally I don't agree but I'm just one person in the democracy machine which I have to put my faith in or we have nothing." Usually I'm met with "wow you are the most reasonable Democrat out there we are actually able to have a civil conversation about this!"
The other go-to is the Dane Cook method of being more mad about something irrelevant to that person...like " what the f is wrong with the Democratic party constantly not learning from their mistakes by appointing their nominees vs allowing a proper primary. That's undemocratic and no wonder they can't get more backing."
AlpacaCavalry@reddit
In this order lmao
azbrewcrew@reddit
Soooo…do you like,stuff?
MichaelOfShannon@reddit
When they start that shit just pull the throttles back and say “oh no you have an engine failure”. Always works for me
chephy@reddit
I try to find a common ground. Usually we can agree on SOMETHING even with those from the opposite political spectrum. Once that's established, I feel I can throw in some points that challenge their view without being hostile.
Yeah, it's work. Fortunately, I don't fly with that many crazies. Also I feel it helps being the captain, though I employed same strategy as FO.
puckerfactory@reddit
One upmanship. “You don’t believe in the moon landing? I don’t believe in the moon.”
SilentPlatypus_@reddit
I flat-out ignore the "testing the waters" comments. I'll talk about another subject, say something about the weight and balance or the departure procedure, etc. I do my best to give the impression that I didn't even hear it, because you're right that some people will take the "we don't agree on politics so we shouldn't talk about this" as an opening to give you all their opinions on politics. So I don't bite at all. If they ask a direct question I can't pretend I didn't hear I'll just directly say "I don't talk politics at work."
taig-er@reddit
Yeah, this is how I handle the situation regardless of the setting. Just immediately change the topic. You have the benefit of being there to do the job, so re-direct and talk about the job.
Morganater123@reddit
All I care is that you perform your civic duty. Absolutely no one is going to stop the world from turning.
uzivause@reddit
pilots are overwhelmingly annoyingly right leaning so i dont think this is a huge issue bud
Smoopilot@reddit
I’m hoping that the silver lining to this election is that now 90% of the guys I fly with have “their guy” in office and they have control of all 3 branches. So now they have no excuse to bitch about the crap they have been bitching about non stop for 4 years. No more excuses, your guy is in.
TristanwithaT@reddit
Can’t wait for all the “muh government needs to stay out of my life!!!” types to suddenly flip to being overjoyed at their government controlling their life.
Smoopilot@reddit
For an industry that has seen significant gains due to unionization, they sure do love voting for people who want to restrict the power of organized labor. But they all think the reason they make $400k per year is because they are “special” and totally ignore the unions influence on their fantastic CBAs. Dumbasses
NuttPunch@reddit
There is a huge difference between unions for those working under the RLA laws and those who don't. Unions are a necessary part of our industry, essentially by law. Unions for other businesses might not be as desirable. We call this nuance.
dash_trash@reddit
The people who since Obama was elected have been perpetually aggrieved, constantly outraged over everything from the state of the economy (good or bad) to the boots the green M&M is wearing, and gullible enough to believe whatever nonsense is spewed at them by right wing media, are not going to suddenly wake up and take responsibility for their choices.
Anything they don't like will always either be a conspiracy or someone else's fault - this is the entire basis of these people's modern existence.
sagemansam@reddit
That fact that we tell people not to discuss things that directly impact our lives, tax brackets, future generations, etc. I could care less about light talk or your favorite Starbucks flavor. I’d much rather have a conversation about substance! I find the don’t talk about politics stuff fairly odd. I have a degree on it, you can’t just say don’t talk about it. Our country goes to war, don’t talk about it. Taxes increase, don’t talk about. More guns or less guns, don’t talk about. Censorship, don’t talk about it. THESE ARE ALL THINGS WORTH TALKING ABOUT
subtly_irritated@reddit
"Surely we've got something more exciting to talk about... right?"
ce402@reddit
I am a firm believer that the worst advice we were given as kids was to never discuss politics or religion in polite company.
Hear me out.
It has generated an entire generation that is incapable of actually having a polite conversation on a subject they disagree about. Which then forces people into their echo chambers, and does double damage. They assume all reasonable people think exactly like them, and anyone that disagrees with them is a monster/idiot/insert demagogue term here. Social media further reinforces that.
I want someone to try and explain to me why they think the way they do, and hold their beliefs, just as much as I’d like someone to listen to me. We may not change each other’s minds, but we can learn about them and maybe realize we have more in common than we thought. I have lots of friends who’s political opinions I disagree with almost 180º
My trick is to tell them I’m more than willing to discuss that, but first let’s talk about something else. I want you to know that I’m not an asshole first, so that we can separate the opinion from the person. It’s worked pretty well for the most part, sometimes it shuts things down, which is cool. Other times it has fostered a fun and entertaining transcon.
Hell, I’ve even intentionally disagreed with people I agree with, just to make things interesting. Not enough of us took debate in high school, and get emotionally attached to things that really won’t affect us in the big picture.
This also works for union politics and contract talks.
FriendlyDespot@reddit
I think your method is well-suited in an environment where people can agree on the facts of the matter and disagree on the implications, but we're finding ourselves in an unapologetically post-truth world with regards to politics in particular, and in my experience the people who are most likely to start talking politics at work are most often the kind of people who don't respond well when their perceptions of reality are challenged.
That's not to say that it's impossible to have civil conversations using your method, but in my experience those conversations tend to be much more cordial than candid, and don't really provide any insight or perspective that's worth the risk, if it even provides any at all.
dreamniner@reddit
While I agree with the theory of this, it’s probably still a bad idea. Most people aren’t capable of listening and trying to put themselves in the other’s shoes and perhaps try to change their view or educate themselves. Most people don’t even come from a place of logic and couldn’t cite a source to back their facts for their life. Too many people just want to put their opinion out, defend it like crazy and not back down until you either agree or admit you’re wrong. Very few people are capable of having coherent and beneficial political conversations.
I’ve flown with several guys who start out sounding sane then go down an absolute crazy tangent about conspiracy theories that are so wild and disconnected from reality…idk if I’d trust them if I was in the back the whole time.
MTBandGravel@reddit
Be Captain, set your own tone, that’s what I do.
No politics, I don’t care if we agree or not, my goal is to go through my career with none of my co-workers knowing my affiliation. I even have some pretty strong opinions, but they are my own.
So, when the other pilot throws out their test comments, just refuse to engage.
e_pilot@reddit
Setting the tone of a trip is the best thing about being a captain other than the paycheck, it’s such a different job.
LaggingIndicator@reddit
I told my last Republican captain I voted 7 times. I guess it wasn’t enough.
longlive737@reddit
As PIC and SIC, I don’t bring anything up at all. If it comes up, I say ‘My goal is after 7 days together you don’t have a clue where I stand, and I hope the same for you’
Frog_Prophet@reddit
“Who pays for tariffs?”
aftcg@reddit
"If you want to talk politics, we're going to talk about my sexuality to include my kinks. Have you ever been pegged by your wife's girlfriend?"
JT-Av8or@reddit
Just say “Are you fucking crazy? C’mon man, you can’t be stupid and fly!” 🤣 Or you can say “Forget about (insert politician), have you heard about my lord and savior (insert religious icon)”
CaptainReginaldLong@reddit
Agree and move on.
PLIKITYPLAK@reddit
You'll be fine, snowflake
Ok-Dust-@reddit
I share my views without trying to convince and that’s where I think most people go wrong. I want to hear your views, and if I disagree, I’m not going to debate you, I’m going to try and find out what makes you think that way, and will gladly share why I think they way I do. We’re coworkers after all, not political adversaries. I genuinely can’t remember the last conversation at work that went south.
Personally, I think being able to talk to anyone about sensitive topics and potentially opposing views is a sign of intellectual maturity, and we are flying airplanes here…
EntroperZero@reddit
I'm really disappointed that this is downvoted, but all the avoidance advice is massively upvoted. Why is it so difficult to just be honest with your coworkers, why are we supposed to cower in fear instead? You don't have to have a deathmatch in the cockpit, you can just politely disagree.
Ok-Dust-@reddit
Not discussing salary politics all kinds of shit is what keeps us divided, is what the powers at be prefer, and keeps us thinking the worst about each other. Whereas when we talk maturely we realize we’re more alike than different.
But remember the forum we’re on. Reddit isn’t known for its outgoing social butterflies.
SilentPlatypus_@reddit
It's because we're not there to get to know each other's hopes and dreams, we're there to safely fly and land an airplane with 2 - 300 people on board. Yes, we should be able to do both. Yes, we should be mature enough to have a civil debate, disagree, and still have good CRM. But I can't control how the other person reacts, and I don't know when someone's passions on the subject will overcome their professional detachment. That's a risk I'll take if I'm at a dinner party, but the responsibility we have in the cockpit is too important to roll that die.
EntroperZero@reddit
But in this scenario, it seems to be only one person's responsibility, not both. Why is that?
SilentPlatypus_@reddit
It is both people's responsibility. But I can't control other people's professionalism, only my own.
EntroperZero@reddit
What I'm saying is that you can be professional and politely disagree.
SilentPlatypus_@reddit
Sure, ideally. Not everyone you fly with will do that, however. How many times have you politely disagreed with a fellow pilot and then had to spend the next three hours of a transcon listening to a rant about how people like you are ruining the country, knowing that you were going to have to listen to it for not only the rest of the flight but also the next three days? Trust me, if you try to politely disagree with your coworkers you will wind up having some interesting and enlightening conversations, and you will also get to listen to some conspiracy-laden rants about how you are the evil destroying the country. The fun part is that you don't know which one you're flying with until it's too late. There are many, many pilots who simply cannot have a polite conversation about politics, and our primary focus needs to be the safety of the flight. That's why the professional choice is to avoid the subject all together.
BustedMahJesusNut@reddit
Smile, nod. Gently remind them that the CVR hears everything and they are out of policy with those topics.
Bottle_of_Nostalgia@reddit
I’m not gonna put his name on blast but a fellow FO on my fleet and in my base (we have two FOs on most flights going augmented crews) gave me the best response that I’ve been using really successfully.
He just said he goes “there ya go!!” When they start talking politics. Whatever it is. Just “there ya go!” They either get the hint you aren’t gonna talk about it or they just completely glaze over and keep going because they were gonna talk about it regardless and now you’ve saved yourself the trouble of going out with them on the layover to find out they are politically obsessed (to either side) and you can enjoy yourself a nice peaceful slam click trip which is good for all of us from time to time
There ya go!!!
uberklaus15@reddit
I love this. I'm just a private pilot and work in a white collar office setting with a few colleagues who occasionally start getting political. I'll start using this loudly in a quiet office and see how it goes!
NuttPunch@reddit
Honestly I’d just get used to it. It’s a divided country. Accept that you’re going to be an enemy to one side or the other.
Machaltstars@reddit
Upgrade to captain so you run the ship
Or be a grown-up, get out of your chronically online world and have a conversation with a fellow adult. I've been willing to engage in political and religious discussions, and as long as you are intelligent and respectful, you'll learn there's a lot more common ground than you'd realize
TheRauk@reddit
Don’t worry, Project 2025 has a plan for this and you.
tomdarch@reddit
Not sure why you got downvoted. This isn't US politics as usual or some "both sides are the same" stuff.
GooseMcGooseFace@reddit
Just make sure you routinely check in of Facebook that you’re safe from the roving Trump death squads.
Improperfaction@reddit
Be an adult. Understand that not everyone you ever meet is going to agree with you. This is easy for me to say though. I'm incredibly lucky to have two other pilots who I consider very dear friends that I work with in my flight department. Although the three of us don't agree on politics, we can have a cordial discussion without resorting to calling each other things like "racist" or "communist."
californiasamurai@reddit
Outside of the flight deck (or anywhere) I use my dual citizenship as an excuse and I usually tell people I stopped following US politics (not true). "Oh yeah, I'm not going to be able to vote in a few years anyway when I lose my citizenship, so I haven't been following US politics that closely recently" or something like that.
Partially agreeing to either side isn't an option when they're both shit. Sometimes I go with this line of reasoning.
90% of the time people are smart enough to avoid politics in general. If they're forcing their opinion on you that's an issue with them, it's kinda beyond politics tbh
mushybanananas@reddit
I always just dive in, “o yeah I love trump, he is going to save us from kamalalala” or “oo yeah Kamala is so amazing, I love diversity and being nice”
Crusoebear@reddit
Unfortunately the nature of the job involves being stuck in a very small room, often for many, many hours sometimes stretching into days or weeks with quite a few overbearing type A personalities with no filters and wildly differing opinions. That part might not have been in the brochure but this is the job you signed up for.
As an f/o I basically got really good - through necessity - at simply (& pretty quickly) changing the subject. And ultimately trying to find common ground, like hobbies or dogs, or home renovation projects or past flying experiences or talking about the contract or negotiations or whatever. Humor helps a lot but sometimes it ain’t easy. Like anything else, while less-than-pleasant, it gets to be second nature through time & practice. For better or worse, as an f/o there is a power dynamic that makes direct confrontations dicey & of course you don’t want distractions that could compromise safety no matter how much you dislike the other person. If it ever does become a real problem - most companies have no-fly lists as well as pro standards committees you can contact for help too.
As a captain - thankfully almost all of that nonsense disappeared - because I normally don’t talk politics or other divisive subjects at work and if others around me start it in it’s definitely easier for me to shut it down or change the subject right away. I always try to remember what is was like being an f/o & try to act accordingly. The days are long enough without extra nonsense so I choose to have as stress free & comfortable (for everyone) & hopefully fun work environment as possible. These days I can go many months and sometimes years at a time with zero politics being discussed. You may have to suffer through a few pictures of my super cute dogs though.
SubarcticFarmer@reddit
Couldn't have said it better myself. Upgrading definitely helped.
Dinosaur_Wrangler@reddit
"Look, I've just watched 18 months of non-stop political ads. Can't we give it a break for at least a couple weeks...maybe even til 2026?"
dreamniner@reddit
Great answer. Keeps it humorous and honest
Mike93747743@reddit
Bring up boats, guns, or ex-wives. That will fill the time.
saxmanB737@reddit
Have you seen the new line of New Balance shoes?!
Dear-Competition-772@reddit
Honestly, go to ToastMasters… The ability to steer a conversation in the direction you want it to go is an art form. And there are some goddamn Rembrandt’s there out there that you can learn from!
“Oh, man! you know what that reminds me of? My Daughter had a dentist appointment the other day, and can you believe they put TV’s on the ceiling now?!?”
Bargain basement example… But stuff along those lines gets you out of those convos pretty consistently.
Wooden-Term-5067@reddit
A crew member at my airline wears an NGPA lanyard. That takes care of most ramblings. Oh and the dude is married to a woman.
aviatortrevor@reddit
If a captain is uber-right, I just want to embody a fictional version of a leftist that would make them annoyed. Like... mention that I am in favor of forcing all children to transition to the opposite gender. And that I want to allow the mentally retarded to work as pilots and air traffic controllers so that we aren't guilty of discrimination. And that we should hire every black and female applicant without an interview process. And that we should give everyone a free house and free illicit drugs. And that we should make churches and religion illegal. And just keep going and going and going until they get the point that you're not serious. If they keep bringing up their politics, keep bringing up the made up extreme lefty politics.
StangViper88@reddit
Upgrade to CA
dieseltaco@reddit
4d chess
blanc84gn@reddit
I did this to avoid these exact conversations
RaidenMonster@reddit
I find all the conversations interesting to be honest. Agree or disagree, politics, religion, whatever.
I’ll try and go along and participate, carrying a conversation is a skill, one we could probably all stand to get better at.
blanc84gn@reddit
I just nod and say, yup, uh huh, wild!
Anyway, I was raw dogging this guy the other day….
SkySoldier22@reddit
I'm happy to work for a company with mostly level headed and like minded crew. That avoids a lot of this tension in the first place.
350smooth@reddit
Whether for against, politics doesn’t come up in my cockpit. If someone tries, I will kindly say “I only watch 2 channels, ESPN and TMZ.” That has always ended the conversation for me.
I don’t care who you voted for. I care about safely completing our trip and having a bit of fun along the way.
John_EightThirtyTwo@reddit
I have to agree with OP that this is the best way to both wrap up the discussion and avoid friction. The downside, of course, is the shame.
rinfodiv@reddit
You know how a 5 year old can talk to you for like 30 straight minutes about every topic and usually it's pretty easy to just go "Oh really? Tell me why the dinosaurs were green."
I just do that. I pretend they're an excited 5 year old talking about dinosaurs. And then eventually find something flight-related to distract them with. They usually get the hint.
livebeta@reddit
Do you like movies about gladiators?
Mobile_Passenger8082@reddit
Have you ever been it a Turkish prison?
LateralThinkerer@reddit
Be a grey rock
Lamarr_jr@reddit
I literally don't respond to political shit in any way. No nodding or "huh interesting". It's a little awkward but I've noticed it gets the message across much better than anything else and it's the quickest way to end the conversation lol.
flying_penguin104@reddit
“ah I don’t like talking about politics”
Sounds like you already know the answer.
pballer2oo7@reddit
If it's happening 70% of the time, I wonder if it's you. Not them.
ChicagoPilot@reddit
I don't know, I never bring it up myself, but politics usually comes up about that rate on any given 4 day. Some guys just assume everyone agrees with them and start spewing whatever nonsense their side is peddling that week.
ATACB@reddit
I have found Popping the o2 mask on and saying “I just ripped a wicked fart your gonna want that” typically ends things in a hurry
org000h@reddit
“Salam brother” … “Mashallah mashallah may your leader dance upon the rotting corpses of those who defied him” … “Inshallah we’ll show these non believers god is one and truly”
Out crazy the crazy. Even better if you know Spanish, Greek or Italian. Lay it on thick. Bust out the bobblehead Jesus. Spray some “holy” water around the seat.
Grand_Raccoon0923@reddit
I nip it in the bud and say “no politics, no religion” and change the subject.
More_Than_I_Can_Chew@reddit
Huh. I do long haul too and it comes up about 3 percent of the time. And then maybe for less than 30 seconds.
It's nice.
keenly_disinterested@reddit
Remark that you are an observer of politics, not a participant, then change the subject. Have a list of topics you are well versed in so you can choose one appropriate to the person you are flying with.
SilentPlatypus_@reddit
I agree on changing the subject, although saying you don't participate in politics is likely to generate a diatribe about civic responsibility. You don't have to know much about anything to change the subject, though. Figure out what they're into and ask questions. People love talking about the things they're into, and I've been thoroughly entertained by learning about the drama of a local Boy Scout troop, what it's like for their teenage son to try to break into car racing, how to build a backyard pizza oven, training dogs for agility competitions, etc.
I also have a few conversation starters that are usually good for 30 minutes to an hour in cruise.
"Hey, you know how most people think they could land an airliner as long as someone 'talked them down'? If you were the expert on the other side of the radio, how would you go about talking a passenger through landing the plane? Follow-up question: what would you do if you were the passenger who had to land a type aircraft you have no experience with? What steps would you take, what questions would you ask?"
"Hypothetical: We're flying along here at cruise, a portal opens in front of us and we are transported back in time. Same location, but it's 10,000 years ago. What would you do?"
Letting people talk about themselves is the easiest way to steer a conversation and also make them think you're a fantastic conversationalist.
keenly_disinterested@reddit
When that happens I clarify: I observe and keep my own council. I consider my political beliefs to be deeply personal, so I only share them with those I'm close to.
Plastic_Brick_1060@reddit
Just jump on with a much more extreme view of their beliefs until they start getting uncomfortable. So say the topic is size of government, on one side, just say that all governments should be disbanded along with all services and the other, say that governments should control all aspects of life and no one has to work. It's effective AND fun
WastingMyTime8@reddit
There’s something a little bit wrong with a lot of people these days in that if they disagree with someone, it’s like they never want to be around that person, that person is dead to them basically.
I have friends of different demographics and different opinions. And they remain friends. I feel like it’s important to keep people close to you with different opinions. This helps you not to get so far down the rabbit hole that you can’t see the other side.
This goes both ways. Now I’m never someone to bring up politics in the cockpit. I’ve literally never been the one to bring it up. But yes it does come up. Both parties should be able to stay level headed about it. And if you can’t, then you have poor emotional intelligence, regardless of what side you argue for.
I’m not American, but I’m certainly a Democrat. I’m also a father. And how any man who has a daughter could vote for trump is beyond me. Now a trump supporter who has good emotional intelligence, should be able to hear this opinion and say “fair” and then maybe have a calm counter point.
If your someone who gets super hyped about these conversations, your the issue. And you obviously don’t have the emotional intelligence to talk about it.
TheHidingGoSeeker@reddit
Yea, usually the quickest way to get it to stop is to just agree but never add too the topic. Like “man so and so would be GREAT for our job”, “oh yea”. That usually helps stop it for me but I’m also not stuck in a cockpit with someone yet.
texas1982@reddit
They'll take that as validation. Never validate these comments even if you agree. More follow.
TheHidingGoSeeker@reddit
I can see it, I work in a warehouse right now so it’s a little easier to agree with them and just walking away🤣
illimitable1@reddit
"oh yeah? Is that so?"
" Did you ever hear that Frank Zappa called politics the entertainment division of the military industrial complex?"
" Well, another 4 years from now and we'll all be at each other's throats again. It's kind of exhausting, isn't it?"
" I reckon we could talk a long time about politics but I came to fly a plane, not solve the world's problems."
" I've said from the beginning that no matter who won, I would choose stabilized landings and not having to fly to Newark."
ZDub77@reddit
First time they bring it up, I respond but clearly don’t want to talk about it. Second time, I literally don’t respond Third time, “Have I told you about why I became Catholic?” I have yet to have anyone bring it up a 4th time (or want to talk about religion). Haha
tomdarch@reddit
Rolling the dice in a risky way on that "becoming Catholic" one. You're going to eventually do that with a Latin mass trad Cath and open up a box of really crazy stuff.
ZDub77@reddit
Haha true, although I rather hear that crazy than the standard stuff
Choconilla@reddit
My hero.
hawker1172@reddit
Your “mental health” is pretty lacking already if you can’t handle people having a different opinion.
texas1982@reddit
I can handle differing opinions. It's the constant, emotionally charged talking about it that drives me nuts.
hawker1172@reddit
Tell them to shut up lol it’s both crew member’s workplace and aircraft
texas1982@reddit
That's what I do.
Ouch704@reddit
Our operational procedures instructor silently drew a very large "O.I.C." on the whiteboard during our last class with him before our exams.
He quietly turned to us, and said "This is the key. This is more important than anything else I've been teaching you for the last 4 months."
When seeing our puzzled faces, and realizing his theatricality had had the expected effect, he proceeded to say
"During your entire career, you will find yourself with people of multiple backgrounds, origins, beliefs and levels of intelligence... Whenever you get paired up with one that starts talking about something that could create an argument, just spell these three letters while nodding softly.
OH. I. SEE. "
That man knew what he was talking about.
notsofreeshipping@reddit
Your approach of being a matador and side stepping usually works. If you put no energy into the issue, the other person will not have a wall to bounce off.
NonVideBunt@reddit
Don't engage. I don't talk politics or religion ever in the cockpit because I want to have a good trip and not let personal beliefs get in the way. I've had more than a few CAs just start running their mouth and I basically just smile and nod and slowly work to nudge the conversation to something else. Fortunately, it's easy to get away from politics with a pilot if you ask them questions about their investing strategies (not that you'd use them), their toys in the garage, big house, fast car, why their 3rd wife divorced them etc.
21MPH21@reddit
Every time an inappropriate conversation comes up I'll start talking about the FOM. It's a very dry topic so it's a dramatic change in me. It's pretty obvious that I don't want to talk about it. Only the smoothest of the smooth brains don't get that my beliefs don't align with theirs after the first or second time of FOM talk.
phiviator@reddit
As a lurker, what's FOM? I'm military so my brain wants to read freedom of maneuver haha.
10and250@reddit
Flight Operations Manual, these are company specific.
srv340mike@reddit
Flight Operations Manual
Sad-Improvement-2031@reddit
A few times, I have pretended to misunderstand them, and said “wait what?” or “huh?” While looking at them with a confused face. If you’re serious enough when you hit them with that, they usually repeat it with much less enthusiasm, or just say “nevermind” and drop it. It at least gives them a chance to rethink what they said.
bcr76@reddit
If you’re that person bringing up politics in the flight deck - fucking stop.
jaylowgee@reddit
“Uh huh” and “yeah man” until they run out of breath or pick up on me not paying attention
LPNTed@reddit
This thread points out exactly why I would have failed as a professional pilot. Most of them are conservatives, I am BLATANTLY not.
swakid8@reddit
At the end of the day, there’s common ground each and everyone one of us. We just have to find it…
nopal_blanco@reddit
Based on your username, there are currently a lot of ways to deflect political talk at our shop.
swakid8@reddit
I am not where you think I am at…..
BrosenkranzKeef@reddit
I’m not either and sometimes these old guy captains are exhausting to fly with. Now I assume they’re going to be exhausting and full of themselves.
I just divert or talk about a common ground aspect if they mention one. But even if we’re talking about something we agree on, they almost immediately circle it back to some wild shit.
It’s like they’re constantly searching for validation in their views, trying to see where I’m at. I don’t give them that validation. Unfortunately, they just got all the validation they could ever want.
SilentPlatypus_@reddit
Lol, I've definitely encountered that as well. It's like they're so excited to be flying with someone who agrees with them on politics that it's just four days of ranting. Hey, man, I agree with 90% of what you're saying but I just can't anymore. I'm begging you to let me stare out the window in complete silence for just 30 minutes.
SilentPlatypus_@reddit
I'm pretty liberal, too, but I've flown with other pilots who kind of took me aback with how far left they were. Burn capitalism to the ground, etc., all while working a six figure job and showing me pictures of their EV Lexus. If they can work with the good ol' boy from Texas who misses the day when everyone lived in their own country and we didn't have all this globalization* (*and yes, missing the irony as a white man from Texas), then so can you.
The job does require compartmentalization, so there's that. You are correct in assuming that having a hard time compartmentalizing would be an issue in the industry.
7layeredAIDS@reddit (OP)
Part of the job is navigating this and I’ve found that finding ways to move past these conversations, get a job done, and still go out for a beer and have a good time has been a rewarding and transferable skill as difficult as it may be. This is not targeted at one side or the other either.
LPNTed@reddit
I appreciate that. And I definitely appreciate people who can do this. I'm not.
cbph@reddit
You can't interact or function with people who have different beliefs from yours?
You do it every day in the course of basic adulting, you just don't realize it.
LPNTed@reddit
To me.... There's a massive difference between dealing with my patients and being stuck in a tight space with someone else for hours.
rotardy@reddit
I think you made the right decision as well but for different reasons.
Grand-Amphibian-3887@reddit
Thankfully, you didn't. You would definitely be on your own on the layovers.
LPNTed@reddit
I'm sure I would have been fine with most of the FA's.
LawManActual@reddit
Let them talk, let them get out whatever is bothering them. Don’t agree or disagree, give them a “really?”, “that’s wild”, “ok”, every now and again.
When there is a sufficient lull in that conversation, ask a question about the aircraft or a procedure, or something about the company that can go on for a while (bidding strategy works well, especially something they haven’t done in a while) then let the conversation work its way in a different direction.
It’s called tact. And we all should learn it.
No need to engage with someone and start an argument.
texas1982@reddit
Problem is, if I decide to share all of my comments and opinions on the same topics, I wouldn't get the same courtesy. Best to just stop all conversation.
Odd_Minimum2136@reddit
Debate strategies? I mean this is as easy is “I’m not interested”. This is a dumb post.
TRex_N_Truex@reddit
Debate strategy?
Upgrade.
texas1982@reddit
I've flown with these captains. It's almost always Maga republicans, but occasionally a Democrat.
From here on out, I'm giving them the "I'm not really interested in discussing politics" line. If they continue after that, I'm pulling myself from the trip, calling the duty pilot, filing an ASAP report and calling the union. It's a safety of flight issue and I'm going to report them all.
cuttawhiske@reddit
I stop it. I don't care it's not the place to discuss such things. My side won but it doesn't matter in the air.
Choconilla@reddit
As a junior FO I did the whole nod and that’s crazy thing, after awhile it becomes exhausting. As a senior FO with a pair of balls I would just not say anything. People get really uncomfortable in silence. You’re there to work not be their therapist.
thereal_bettycrocker@reddit
"Damn, that's crazy"
GAU8Avenger@reddit
I upgraded 🤷♂️ It's been a 99% success rate so far
nineyourefine@reddit
Smile and nod and change subject is usually a good move. One thing I do now is take note of stickers on their bags if they have any, or background pictures on their ipads. If I see a car, airplane, family or whatever, I'll immediately bring the convo to that.
I actually had a Captain years ago going off on something and I saw he had a Pitts and his ipad wallpaper, so in between his ranting I said "Is that your pitts?" and the next couple hours we spent chatting about GA, aerobatic flying and airplane ownership. It was a good time.
I did that for a checkride once too. Check airman had a Corvette as his background and I'm a big car nerd so I asked him about it. He lit up and we spent a lot of the pre-brief prior to the LOFT talking about Corvettes and general car stuff. Checkride was easy.
Bag-Lazy@reddit
“Mm..” with an uninterested nod. I’ll either leave it at that and stay quiet, or completely change the subject if I feel like talking.
thegolfpilot@reddit
I'm a pilot. I fly airplanes. I don't politics
Fun-Estate-3775@reddit
I tell them that since we never seem to be able to agree on politics or religion I only want to talk about boobs.
tical007@reddit
"Really", "Wow", "You don't say", "are you joking me", "Uh huh", "Damn"..
Mix and match your way to success, while still appearing to be sentient, and have a personality.
154FAviator@reddit
When the captain says some shit about being conservative/liberal. Even if I agree with what he’s saying my response is always “idk (insert name) I just live in my own happy little world with my wife and kids and try to stay out of it all I don’t watch the news or tv”. Or something similar then bring up how I can only affect those around me via mans search for meaning by Dr. Frankl so that’s what I focus on and it works 95 percent of the time. Anything else is fair game. Guns, hunting, riding dirtbikes with my shitheads, building my house, and a whole other list of stuff.
Dalibongo@reddit
This is the way.
cjonesaf@reddit
Don’t engage. Short answers, gently steer the topic else where. Even the hardcore old CAs I flew with got the hint.
Days like this it’s good to be the CA; I can squash those topics much more easily. In a friendly way of course. How about those Cubs!
One_Event1734@reddit
I've had a range of experiences. There's a captain at my company that will NOT stop talking on a 5 day trip about his latest conspiracy theory. Like he is IMPOSSIBLE to stop, even if you confront him.
But more realistically, it depends on if you're the captain or FO. I'm a captain, and I don't actively keep politics or religion out of my cockpit. But whoever brings it up, I make sure it always consensual and understanding.
It's harder for an FO, especially one who's never been a captain. The chameleon instinct is strong. But once you've been a captain, and you're just taking some time in the right seat for seniority or because you're new to your next company, it changes the dynamic. It's easy to say this, but have no nonsense attitude, and put your foot down if needed. "Walk softly and carry a big stick." We can work together even if we don't agree. And that's okay.
21MPH21@reddit
Another thought, don't smile and nod like some folks suggest. It just keeps them going down their rabbit hole and there is no end - if there is they just hit repeat and it's the same shit over again.
Just listening to toxic BS that long creates a bad atmosphere in you. That's going to affect you on the trip. It's not worth it and if you're upset with all their BS and thinking about it you're distracted. That's not ideal. Then you miss a crossing altitude.
Just keep things professional. Sometimes that includes sitting quietly except for necessary communication. Not every flight deck needs to be filled with conversation so feeling aren't hurt. One of you spewing hate and the other one hiding anger is not a safe cockpit.
Magma86@reddit
Use deflection to ask them a question about themselves. Like: Did you always want to be a pilot?
canadianbroncos@reddit
As everyone said a smile and "that's crazy" is standard.
But sometimes I like to mess with them a bit and agree with them but go a bit unhinged and ridiculous in my approval lol
ImmortanBen@reddit
I dealt with a lot of these types at the regionals and so far acting like you are on the complete opposite end of the spectrum works pretty well. Just to mess with them. It's usually met with an eye roll and that's the end of it, cause deep down they know or think they know you're screwing with them.
bae125@reddit
Smile, nod, wow yeah.
Just don’t engage with the idiots on either side
santacruz6789@reddit
Yup, nod and smile. Maybe a “Ohhh!” or just starring off my at Flight Manual. I also fly long haul and it comes up and that’s my strategy.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
This is not a “boo we lost” or “yay we won” type of post but it is absolutely relevant to safety of flight (and to some degree mental health lol)
As crew members we are told to absolutely keep politics/religion/topics of controversy out of the flight deck, for obvious reasons. Our companies routinely send out reminders of such near election times. At all costs I try. I fly long haul with people of a different demographic pretty much every flight and to no fault of my own it comes up probably 70% of the time usually before we even leave the gate! I’m not kidding! It’s amazing to me to how either the captain or FO’s will bring these topics up as if they assume everyone agrees with them. It’s usually one statement thrown out as a “test the waters” type of thing and ends up being a rant
So what techniques do you guys and gals use to squash this? The book answer is something professional like “ah I don’t like talking politics”. This in my experience doesn’t really work - it’s the same divide as saying “I don’t agree with you”. Because if you do agree, you’ll gladly jump right in and contribute to the discussion. By saying you don’t like to talk about whatever is being talked about, the starter of the conversation knows you don’t agree. And then right away the same barrier is thrown up.
The best thing I’ve found is sort of the “smile and nod” approach without adding significantly to the conversation. You don’t need to go full in on passionately agreeing with the other side, just acknowledge their points and in a sort of positive way and don’t add to it. smiles “ha I know man, I know. it’s crazy” (or something similar) And leave it at that. They’ll usually run out of stuff to ramble on about fairly quickly since there’s no back and forth and you haven’t shut them down by saying “don’t talk about that” in a confrontational way.
That’s how I do it. Sort of works. What’s your experience and any suggestions on how to handle it? Are you one of the ones that does bring up these topics? I know you’re out there and it’s a lot of you!
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