World reacts to 2024 presidential election results

Posted by arcehole@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 882 comments

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Kiboune@reddit

Reddit Americans love to shit on russians for "voting" for Putin, in elections without legitimate another option, while they themselves voted for same piece of shit. Second time. Good luck to you in becoming Russia 2.0

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JustForTheMemes420@reddit

Tbh our voters are just kinda stupid I saw many withhold votes in protest because she wasn’t exactly the perfect candidate for them

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Icy-Cry340@reddit

Despite intense astroturfing on reddit, nobody was excited for Kamala, once again people were asked to vote against something. How hard is it to find a candidate people actually like?

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JustForTheMemes420@reddit

It’s a decent candidate tbh, Kamala’s just too new advertising wise and it’s hard for people to just randomly band together for her in two months.

Ppl blaming kamala not being left enough are idiots. She lost a lot of the relatively conservative portion of biden voters while progressives still voted for her.

Oh well we saw from hillary that america is sadly not ready to vote for a woman then went ahead and made a poc women a candidates and she had no chance for a still racist sexist us

Reddit is a huge huge bubble. Kamala performed worse then Biden in almost every county and state. Historic bad loss

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arcehole@reddit (OP)

She got less turnout than biden who courted progressives with BLM, debt relieft and union praise. Kamala tried to gain the moderate conservative, suburban women and failed terribly at that. She lost support amongst hispanic men and black men despite the democrat party being historically being their favourite choice. Her campaigning was off.

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TryptaMagiciaN@reddit

Its a DNC ran campaign. Their goal isnt neccessarily to win election. Their goal is fundraising. And they make sooo much more money running against GOP incumbents than they do defending seats. It is time we let the democrats be what they want which is an ally to republicans. Americans should spend our efforts taking other parties seriously.

She got less turnout than biden who courted progressives with BLM, debt relieft and union praise. Kamala tried to gain the moderate conservative, suburban women and failed terribly at that. She lost support amongst hispanic men and black men despite the democrat party being historically being their favourite choice.

And if you know it, so did the DNC. They were originally just going to run Biden and lose but they received intense pushback from voters so they switched candidates to make it seem like they were putting in effort. A two party system designed to maintain a minority owner class. I do not think the DNC had any intention of winning. Maybe Kamala did, but how on earth she arrived at her decision to campaign to gain republican support is hard to swallow given what we know.

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burlycabin@reddit

OMG. It's the spooky evil DNC again, huh? 🙄

No, our country is just full of mouth breathing racist assholes.

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equivocalConnotation@reddit

No, our country is just full of mouth breathing racist assholes.

Note that repeating this sort of thing is part of what isolated them into their own bubble that hates you enough they'd vote for someone they know is a conman, just to spite you.

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burlycabin@reddit

I don't give a shit. It's what they are. Fuck them.

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equivocalConnotation@reddit

Depends what you want to achieve. Do you want to turn people who are kinda indifferent towards you to instead dislike you slightly?

Because that's what throwing around that sort of language does, it adds up in the long run.

There are two paths available for you and those like you. You can "play nice" (even if you hate their guts) and try and pull a few more people over to your side, or you can keep doubling down like has been done the past 10 years.

I don't believe 51% of Americans think you should be killed/don't have a right to exist. Plenty of those people are reachable.

Dude, Asians and Latinos can be racists. And when you vote for the racist candidate, you are a racist. I'm sorry.

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zeta_cartel_CFO@reddit

So voting for their own economic self-interest is racists? Btw, I voted for Harris. But even I know she lost simply because she and the democrats were trying to sell things that most Americans don't give a shit about at the kitchen table.

Dude, Asians and Latinos can be racists.

So now Asians, Latinos and African American men all banded together with White racists to fuck over Kamala? Is that why she lost and no other reason? Trump was the first republican to win the popular vote since 2004. If that's not a clue - then keep allowing the democrats to put up shitty candidates and we'll see more guys like Trump continue to be elected on simple promises. The playbook has already been written and this will be used again in the next election. Because it works.

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burlycabin@reddit

So voting for their own economic self-interest is racists?

When that means voting for a horrific racist candidate? Fucking yes.

Were white people in South Africa who voted for the apartheid regime because it benefited their own economic self-interests racists? Yes, yes they were.

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ashleel_grower@reddit

Tis a simple formula- Deny reality, prepared to eat sh*t again. Happened in 2016, again in 24. Blame everyone but themselves. Happens again. Rinse repeat. Insanity is doing the same thing again and expecting different results

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Trip4Life@reddit

Ironic part is we’re so much better than the rest of the world because we’ve at least been commingling for years, Europe is so fucking bad if you’re not a white European/nationality of your country and living there.

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prostagma@reddit

Europe is so fucking bad if you’re not a white European/nationality

In what way? Job opportunities, segregated neighborhoods, different service, people whispering in public and looking at you funny, how is Europe being racist specifically?

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Trip4Life@reddit

These are quotes from the European Union Agency For Fundamental Rights.

It shows that, despite binding anti-discrimination law in the EU since 2000 and significant policy developments since then, people of African descent continue to face racism, discrimination and hate crime:

Racial discrimination – 45% of respondents say they experienced racial discrimination in the 5 years before the survey, an increase compared to 39% in FRA’s last survey. In Germany and Austria, it goes over 70%. Most often, they are discriminated against when looking for work or searching for accommodation. Young people and people with higher education are most affected. Yet, discrimination remains invisible as only 9% report it. Harassment – 30% say they experienced racist harassment but almost no one reports it. Young women, people with higher education and those wearing religious clothing are more likely to be racially harassed. Racial profiling – 58% say that their most recent police stop in the year before the survey was a result of racial profiling. Those who perceive their stop as racial profiling trust the police much less. Work – 34% felt racially discriminated against when looking for a job and 31% at work in the 5 years before the survey. Compared to people generally, they are more likely to have only temporary contracts and are over-qualified for their job. Housing and poverty – rising inflation and cost of living have put more people of African descent at higher risk of poverty, compared to the general population. Some 33% face difficulties to make ends meet and 14% cannot afford to keep their house warm, compared with 18% and 7% of people generally. Simply finding a place to live is a struggle for many, with 31% saying they were racially discriminated against when trying to find accommodation. Education – young people of African descent are three times more likely to leave school early, compared to young people generally. More parents in 2022 say that their children experienced racism at school than in 2016.

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Doc_Eckleburg@reddit

And what do you think the numbers would be if they asked minorities in the US if they felt they had been subjected to some form of racial discrimination over the previous 5 years? Because if you think it’s better than those EU numbers you put there you must be dreaming.

Here a White House report on the matter., the conclusion is that things are better than the 1960’s but still pretty fucking bad.

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Trip4Life@reddit

Specific enough?

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burlycabin@reddit

Maybe, but somehow many of those places have elected women. We can't seem to do that here.

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Trip4Life@reddit

That’s sexism though. I don’t think Kamala lost because she was a woman however, she was just a bad candidate. She had roughly a -15 approval rating prior to her being placed at the top of the ticket, it was only boosted by the media push to try to galvanize the base around her cuz she’s not Biden. It worked for a bit, but in mid September the adrenaline high dropped and reality began to emerge. She was absolutely decimated in the 2020 DNC, once Tulsi ripped her apart it was over. That was among democratic voters, did they really expect her to appeal to the independents?

Ultimately if they went with a Whitmer Shapiro ticket I think it’s a very different story. They just chose the wrong person. I think since she was legally on the ticket as VP maybe meant they couldn’t remove her as if Biden is gone the electorates go to her. Even if they could, replacing a woman of color with a white woman and a white man may go over terribly among their base. Basically it was a lose, lose.

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burlycabin@reddit

Yeah, I'll believe it's not because we hate women here once actually fucking elect one.

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Trip4Life@reddit

I mean that is your choice, I just don’t agree personally. In recent years the numbers of elected woman have been rising, a woman was elected to the second highest position in the land just four years ago, and another won the popular vote eight years ago. They haven’t quite broken through yet, but she was forced upon the country with no primary and was already highly unpopular. Realistically she had no chance.

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TryptaMagiciaN@reddit

No, our country is just full of mouth breathing racist assholes.

This has always been true of the US, your point?

And not spooky and evil, and private organization with a clear and simple goal, bring in more money. Why do you respond that way? And it is as much the GOPs fault as well. So no, not some spooky whatever. Just two private organizations trying to make as much as they can, just like pretty much every business in this country.

The reality is that candidates have to be approved by the DNC and GOP since we effectively have a 2 party system. We had candidates of each party this cycle banned from primary ballots by both of those organizations. The DNC is no more evil than any other business in the country, it is our subservience to an economic system at any cost that is destroying not only our politics, but our climate as well.

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GunSmokeVash@reddit

Subservience to an economic system at any cost

Greed being one of the tenets of capitalism.

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Tasgall@reddit

Two things can be true at the same time, though imo they're off the mark a bit.

There was a significant change in campaigning before the Democratic convention and after, when the DNC largely took over the campaign. All the progressive stuff people were excited about at the convention disappeared and a lot of the messaging from the Hillary campaign showed up again.

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RubberBootsInMotion@reddit

I mean, both things could be true perhaps.

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In addition to trump crashing our economy and taking away our rights, we're also now going to have to hear from millions of emboldened morons who have no clue how the world works but feel they must be right because they won

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goofytigre@reddit

They were originally just going to run Biden and lose but they received intense pushback from ~~voters~~ mega donors so they switched candidates...

That's the way it seems to me. She was never going to be anti Israel so there is that, but she definitely should have courted those supporters more.

The real perplexing thing is if these progressives want progressive laws enacted then letting trump into office should have been at the top of their list of things to not do. They could get things done later, but not anymore, there is no later. No progressive laws will be enacted for a long time because they didn't get their way on one small thing. The supreme Court will be packed with conservatives until the day I die, all because Kamala wasn't anti Israel enough for some constitutes.

The literal definition of cutting of your nose to spite your face.

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amatriain@reddit

I don't think supporting a genocide is just "one small thing".

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Vegetable-College-17@reddit

Rationally, that makes sense, emotionally, it's very lacking.

At some point, the sheer disgust people who care about ghaza feel towards her will override their rationality and besides, that messaging just doesn't mobilize her voter base.(Which is the only way she could've won imo)

People want to feel good about their votes, not like they're compromising their morals for harm mitigation.

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Lenovo_Driver@reddit

I hope they feel great about their decision once Palestine disappears and they won't have a Palestine to protest over

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The_BeardedClam@reddit

People want to feel good about their votes, not like they're compromising their morals for harm mitigation.

I mean your absolutely correct, but voting like that is just so dumb.

To not compromise on a belief only to get shafted on all your other beliefs, including the one you wouldn't compromise for, is just so ridiculously stupid that it's unfathomable to me.

It shouldn't be, because it happened, but the truth and reality is a hard pill to swallow on this one.

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Vegetable-College-17@reddit

People do have a limit, and apparently, when they spend their entire lives being told something Is the ultimate evil, they have a hard time accepting it to prevent an ultimate-er evil.

I'm sure you have your own limits that would look stupid from a distance too.

Of course, if we know this, it's very unlikely the Harris campaign was unaware, maybe they just thought it wouldn't matter.

Regardless, I don't really disagree broadly,(including on the lack of thought given to elections) but I do think there's a limit to lesser evil voting but all of my arguments for it are essentially personal opinions.

Good luck for the next 4 years though, it's probably going to be a lot worse than his last round.

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The_BeardedClam@reddit

I'm sure you have your own limits that would look stupid from a distance too.

But that's the thing, just about nothing would have stopped me from voting for Harris because those limits you speak of, trump and the GOP, have already been crossed by them.

Thanks for the good luck, the whole world is going to need it.

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Vegetable-College-17@reddit

But that's the thing, just about nothing would have stopped me from voting for Harris because those limits you speak of, trump and the GOP, have already been crossed by them.

Really? Just imagine you're a Palestinian American, you've lost family members to this admin's policies, you and your representatives have been snubbed at every opportunity and just this week you've had Ritchie Torres and bill Clinton double team you to tell you how the guys who killed your family were there first.

There's an argument that trump would do worse, but he didn't kill your family, the current admin did.

Now, imagine you are being asked for the vice president of the current admin, and she's promised she's not going to stop the killing.

Would you imagine that you would still be willing to vote for Harris at that point? Despite knowing that trump would kill more Palestinians?

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The_BeardedClam@reddit

I mean you make a compelling argument that is not easy to reconcile at all.

I wish I could say I would do one thing or the other, but not being in that situation makes it impossible to say. I am a deeply pragmatic man though, so I would do whatever the situation demanded.

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Vegetable-College-17@reddit

I'll be honest, you're probably the first person I've talked to in here that honestly engaged with that question.

And yeah, a number of Arab Americans did do that, but a sizable number of them did not.(Partially due to the fact that some of them are socially conservative and the democratic part is no longer the "don't kill Arabs party)

I don't really have a right answer myself, I just thought it's important to at least understand the issue itself.

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The_BeardedClam@reddit

I just thought it's important to at least understand the issue itself.

I'll be honest I didn't really understand until your last post.

I'm still blinded by sadness of the loss which is why I was so vehemently emotional at the beginning. While I can't quite grasp the motivation, I don't think it's so stupid anymore.

Thanks for that, and thanks for being my sounding board for frustrations, you've helped me through this more than you may know.

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Just_this_username@reddit

Difference is that republican voters mostly don't care about that

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Tasgall@reddit

Neither do leftists, apparently.

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Siddward1@reddit

https://zeteo.com/p/poll-harris-democrats-gaza-ceasefire-arms-embargo

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Sometimes there are issues voters can't condone. Genocide is one of them

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NorthernerWuwu@reddit

I mean, when presented with two shit options I tend to pick the less shit one but apparently a number of people would prefer to have the worst one as long as they personally didn't have to make a direct choice.

It's a valid preference, I just don't happen to agree with it.

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Yupelay@reddit

I didn't say i agree with their choice to stay home. I just said that supporting israel's genocide of the palestinian people probably played a big role in the fact that democrat voters didn't want to vote for her.

Anyway democrats picked their strategy, americans made their choice. It's not even close so they do deserve what they got.

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troubleondemand@reddit

I don't think it was the Democrat voters that didn't show up to vote for her, it was the independents. They broke for Biden in 2020 and this time they went for Trump.

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Tasgall@reddit

And yet here those voters are saying "actually, we'd like more genocide, please".

Absolutely bang dead on.

It's time to realize more than half the country gets off on hate.

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cuminmypoutine@reddit

More than half the country can only read at a 6th grade level, so that checks out.

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RugTiedMyName2Gether@reddit

Me understood sum werds u used

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jagger72643@reddit

The Harris campaign was trying to claim the economy is doing great since Harris, by proxy, is responsible for the current economy under Biden. Newsflash, the economy is not great for working people. Is Trump gonna improve that? Absolutely not. But was acknowledging something is broken and pretending he'll do something about it. Just saying everyone who voted for him is "fucking stupid" will give us another dogshit candidate to lose to Trump 2.0

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NinjaLion@reddit

almost every statement in every townhall, debate, or speech by Harris included the phrase "i know americans are hurting". it was acknowledged. but used as a preamble to an attempt to explain to the electorate how the economy works, which they will never learn or listen to. thats the critical mistake.

While he was president Democrats had a majority in the house and Senate but he didn't do it.

Tasgall@reddit

If I took 72 working days to do something I said I would, that had imminent consequence if I didn't

The consequence wasn't "imminent", it was "eventual", and considered pretty much not possible at the time. Meanwhile, they passed his other promise, which WAS imminently important, by the ACA which removed preexisting conditions as a valid excuse to deny health coverage.

If he had instead focused on abortion, he would have achieved neither.

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ForskinEskimo@reddit

It was imminent though. Many Republican were and are constantly trying to push forward more restrictive abortion laws, so there was an immediate need to get it encoded.

Aa for Manchin and Sinema being splitting on abortion right and still being re-elected; to me that just reads as either 1) the party doesn't care to try and replace those who are clearly out of step on key issues, or 2) Dem voters fear a republican sweep enough that they'll continue to vote in mediocre senators who don't represent them well on key issues.

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Tw1tcHy@reddit

It never would have passed, there were still pro-life Democrats in the Senate back then, and everyone was more concerned with using the time and political capital to push through the ACA, which was a much bigger deal at the time. I do think they squandered it, Obama literally said at the time he wasn’t worried about the issue at the moment, but 72 working days with a filibuster proof senate majority does not go as far as conventional wisdom would suggest.

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Tasgall@reddit

Democrats had a majority in the house and Senate but he didn't do it.

Democrats had a super majority (which is absolutely required for literally anything when the other party is in lock step with abusing the filibuster) for a total of about three months, which is when that passed the ACA. There was no political will to change the filibuster rules at the time like where is now.

Abortion is such a big deal when voting for Democrats

It wasn't at the time, it was considered "settled" due to RvW. Pounding the desk on something that's already "settled" while ignoring things people consider real pressing issues would have been a terrible idea. Unfortunately, the Dems lost the super majority in the midterms.

Kind of hard to campaign on it if it isn't threatened.

Which is wasn't at the time. Also kind of hard to pass laws when you don't have support from Congress.

Candidates promising things doesn't mean they'll magically do it, it means they'll work with Congress to do it. They're goals, not absolutes.

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anotherblue@reddit

change the filibuster rules at the time like where is now.

Filibuster rules will be abolished come January, they do not need them now anymore. If there is a chance to lose Congress in 2026, they will put it back.

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flinxsl@reddit

You are modeling the average voter as having too much intelligence. There was a measurable portion of the electorate who showed up to vote for Joe Biden, and then were confused why he wasn't on the ballot. https://i.imgur.com/nbTsxVm.png

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I wouldn't necessarily blame covid as the main cause but it's definitely a factor but I agree with the rest of your points. There's a Venn diagram to what people want and what the democrats offer and in the middle is a tiny slither of a crossover which has LGBTQ rights/women rights and they lean so heavily on this because it's the carrot on a stick in which they can just keep help the rich getting richer.

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studio_bob@reddit

COVID certainly wasn't the only issue but it was absolutely decisive, imo. Your flair is NI so maybe you weren't in the States at the time but it is impossible to overstate how much COVID fucked up every single person's life and Trump brought the blame for all of it right to his own feet by constantly, blatantly lying about it while fucking up every aspect of the response once he eventually, reluctantly got around to it. people were hoarding toilet paper and dying left and right and while we were all stuck at home with nothing to do but scroll and watch TV the Trump COVID Clown Show was on 24/7

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Disastrous-Bus-9834@reddit

Republicans are mostly unified

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EvidenceBasedSwamp@reddit

You forgot lower taxes for billionaires

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EvidenceBasedSwamp@reddit

Biden in the end was actually more left wing

So of course people will perceive a rise of fascism when the media has brainwashed so many into believing that individuals with pretty rational/reasonable qualms are all fascists.

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EvidenceBasedSwamp@reddit

dystopian a global government would be.

what the hell are you talking about, a global government? How is that possible outside the realm of a fantasist

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chambreezy@reddit

This is my point. Almost every government has alluded to a new world order/world government/global governance.

The WHO, the UN, the WEF (who have tremendous power) have literally (literally, not figuratively, all of their press conferences are public) outlined how they're going to achieve it.

If you want to stay ignorant, then you will stay in the brainwashed camp, and that is your perogative.

If you genuinely don't know what I'm talking about, you should take 30 minutes without any preconceived notions or biases and watch a few videos that summarize the WEF's publicly available agenda.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I know what I'm saying is true because I can prove it if you promise to read/watch what I send to you.

I just want to have a family one day, and maybe some prosperity. I know which direction the world has to take, and it isn't globalism!

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EvidenceBasedSwamp@reddit

fnord

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OutsideFlat1579@reddit

Says a misogynist who pretends they aren’t misogynist. GFY.

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Apprehensive-Top3756@reddit

Pathetic

Fun fact, after the Clinton disaster, some domocrat supporters hired some actors to reenact the Clinton trump debate, gender swapped but with all the same lines and mannerisms.

They did this to prove people hared Clinton because of sexism.

When they watched it they realised they actually hated Clinton and trusted trump. Only their own misandry prevented them from seeing it in real life.

So maybe pathetic little creeps like you should fuck off.

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IIIlIllIIIl@reddit

Did we not have a squeaky clean popular white guy in the lineup? It’s fucked that that’s what it comes to but do what you must I guess

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spellclock@reddit

Or maybe, just maybe; people are tired of being called racist and sexist by the moralizing far left. Maybe; just maybe, they disagree with the policies and this has nothing to do with race and gender.

Maybe this is why they lost. You can say that people vote emotionally, that trump followers are in a cult, and I will certainly agree with you. But that doesn't account for this massive defeat. Not all the voters can be racist, sexist idiots; as a non american at least I certainly hope so.

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Code2008@reddit

No... many of them are just that. Our country is vilely racist.

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Heistman@reddit

Have you ever been outside of the US? Outside of your room?

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Code2008@reddit

I have traveled internationally. You should too sometime.

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DopeShitBlaster@reddit

It’s a bad campaign strategy. The undecided voter is a myth.

Trump won by getting a bunch of new voters and courting the extreme of his base while knowing the moderate republicans would vote for him regardless.

Kamala could have courted progressives but instead devoted to trying to and appeal to the moderate republicans that were always going to vote trump. This has been the DNC strategy since Obama and we were lucky to win in 2020.

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Levitz@reddit

Ppl blaming kamala not being left enough are idiots.

Same as anyone not blaming the entire democrat party for trying to run Biden was he was utterly incompetent to run in the first place, then making a panic last moment switch.

the DNC massively shat the bed, no matter how much astroturfed Kamala shit was plastered all over this god-forsaken website.

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Rantsalot97@reddit

I have seen people say Kamala is not good enough for palestine. I want to hear what they say in a year or two.

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saltlakecity_sosweet@reddit

Nah man, you can’t win without the left, this proves it

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mustbethaMonay@reddit

This is the point the left is still missing. America would absolutely vote for a woman or a poc, but you can't run on that alone. Likewise you can't run on calling the other guy a racist sexist alone. Policy still matters, and Trumps track record wins by a mile. But the left can't get to talking about policy when they're still stuck on calling Trump literally Hitler.

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flamingviper3175@reddit

Good I’m glad she lost. All the astroturfing and ceaseless pro Kamala propaganda was nauseating. Idiots in the Reddit echo chamber crying is hilarious. She was such a poor candidate to pick and she was awful in the primaries.

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country2poplarbeef@reddit

Oh well we saw from hillary that america is sadly not ready to vote for a woman then went ahead and made a poc women a candidates and she had no chance for a still racist sexist us

Not just a woman, but that this woman keeps getting a red carpet to the candidacy and makes the Democrat's selection process look like a corporate scam. It was a mistake having her essentially skip the primaries and just get handed the candidacy as Biden's replacement. Should've done more to separate herself from Biden.

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CanadianODST2@reddit

I feel the only way a woman is ever elected is if both sides have moderates running. But they'd need a huge shift to the left

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Disastrous-Bus-9834@reddit

Hillary won the popular vote.

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TheHumanite@reddit

The problem was the poc woman candidate only ever talked to Republicans. They made such huge point about all the bastards supporting Harris, it didn't make sense to vote Republican (blue) vs. Republican (red). They tried to turn the Democratic party into the "sane conservative" party and lost everybody.

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nonlethaldosage@reddit

harris only problem is she was not biden we voted for biden.harris and the democratic party bullied him till he droped out. Then gave us no choice who we got to vote for.

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RegalBeagleKegels@reddit

Reddit is a huge huge bubble.

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IlluminatedPickle@reddit

In Queensland we have compulsory ranked choice voting.

You get a list of say, 5 names. Number them between 1-5. If your 1 doesn't get enough votes to win, your vote goes to your 2, and so on.

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ojsage@reddit

Here in the USA we have early voting that differs state by state and usually is two weeks in October plus the Saturday, and we have zero expectation of time off for actual election day.

Which with all the early voting, you'd think it would be easy, but it's notoriously difficult, given that it lasts about the same time as a work day + commute home.

Oh and there is no punishment for not voting, even though it's literally the baseline of the democratic process.

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IlluminatedPickle@reddit

Yeah, you guys really need to push it back to a weekend.

We have early voting stations too.

On the vote I mentioned earlier, I had totally forgotten until about 2pm, had to go to work at 6.

So I just walked up to the school and was home by about 30 minutes later.

Make voting easier.

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holdyourponies@reddit

Just so you know there is a reason not to vote. For example my state is blue. Always has been, always will be. Regardless if I was republican it would be a waste of time and vice versa since it’s electoral anyway. So that is one reason how my vote means nothing.

Now swing states are completely different.

At the end of the day New York and California were barely blue and that should tell you something on the grand scale that there is something not right with the DNC and not some lame ass excuse of, “people are regarded.”

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nonlethaldosage@reddit

they pay you to take time off to vote. If that''s not enough reason to go out to vote nothing is

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ojsage@reddit

Who is getting paid to go vote in the USA? Not me. Not anyone I know.

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No we are talking about our current system, actually. Seems like you're advocating for a return to the original system that left out the majority of the electorate.

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umbertea@reddit

But you only elect shitheads and occasionally have them unelected again by Governor Generals under US pressure.

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IlluminatedPickle@reddit

Awww, you believe the CIA bullshit? Amazing.

Wanna buy a bridge?

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umbertea@reddit

Lol. Yes. We do. But let's sanitize it.

But you only elect shitheads and occasionally have them unelected again by Governor Generals ~~under US pressure.~~

Is that better? :D Does that make it more palatable? Does that soothe your sense of sovereignty? Does that make you feel any less like a cowed dog on a short leash? Because I don't want to come in here and upend your self-image, so feel free to scarper away from the computer and roll up whimpering in a corner somewhere, and think about how much better it is to have Pine Gap than democracy. <3

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IlluminatedPickle@reddit

"Oh no, their democratic system unfucked a parliamentary deadlock and allowed the country to move forward! They must be broken!"

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umbertea@reddit

Perfect. Watch out for those roos, me matey. Yarrrr.

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ToranjaNuclear@reddit

How does it work there in Australia?

In Brazil we technically have mandatory voting, but the consequence for not voting is...a 5 minute inconvenience explaining why on a website and a 3 reais fine (which is less than the price of a coca cola can).

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kenkanoni@reddit

Brazil also has mandatory voting and it works like a charm.

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RegalBeagleKegels@reddit

99.99% of voters are unqualified to make that kind of decision

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ojsage@reddit

I'm sure you consider yourself the .001

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RegalBeagleKegels@reddit

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ojsage@reddit

Then your commentary is irrelevant

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RegalBeagleKegels@reddit

No it's not. Should be obvious to anyone. In an election like this one, sure, anyone with a brain or a consistent set of principles is qualified. But in a typical election, where you're dealing with matters of domestic and foreign policy, cultural/historical issues, budget allocation... if we're being VERY charitable, the average person is passably knowledgeable about like one of these things.

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ojsage@reddit

Doesn't matter, we Don't block people from voting based on their education level, we actually made a point to STOP doing that.

It's a fault in our nation that our people are not informed, they should still all vote.

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RegalBeagleKegels@reddit

Yes and not arbitrarily blocking the ability to vote is good but you're saying that people should have to vote, and given my position, I don't think it solves a problem.

America chose, and they chose poorly.

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sad_and_stupid@reddit

Right, but on an individual level you can't control what others in your country think, so if someone didn't vote for him then they have no or little part in that

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IlluminatedPickle@reddit

I wear the fact that my country voted badly, and don't expect that the government I participated in voting for is anything I should be excused for.

Blaming the voters hasn't worked so far.

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silverionmox@reddit

Blaming the voters hasn't worked so far.

Neither has blaming the candidates.

Who are you trying to convince, I already voted for Kamala. But at the end of the day, I don’t know anyone who feels better off after the last few years that didn’t simply get lucky (Nvidia employees, etc).

On paper employment is the same, but during the Trump era it was red hot, and now there are layoffs everywhere and people in my industry can’t find jobs, sometimes for years - everyone I know is hurting. But of course it’s just feelings. But a lot of people are having these feelings.

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silverionmox@reddit

Who are you trying to convince, I already voted for Kamala. But at the end of the day, I don’t know anyone who feels better off after the last few years that didn’t simply get lucky (Nvidia employees, etc).

Just pointing out that the problem does not lie with either policy or policy proposals. It's a matter of feelings, so getting a grip on which feelings drive Trump supporters is critical.

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Icy-Cry340@reddit

People lose trust when you keep telling them the economy is doing great, but they and everyone they know are hurting.

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silverionmox@reddit

People lose trust when you keep telling them the economy is doing great, but they and everyone they know are hurting.

Again, I already linked the data above. That's not the case for the average voter. Buying power has been on the rise since May 2023, that's a year and a half.

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You have to offer them better solutions to their real problems than the bigoted crap that the GOP does. The current approach was repudiated time and time again, Biden only won in 2020 because of the omnishambles Trump made of COVID. Trump and the GOP make almost every problem they have worse, but they at least pretend like they're giving some address to their material concerns.

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I-Make-Maps91@reddit

They did, but this wasn't an election about policy.

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SparklingLimeade@reddit

All the people getting interviewed by news outlets as "relatable" conservative voters were talking about the economy. Trump's economic policy is about as smart as saying "the car isn't going so I'm going to put sugar in the gas tank because sugar makes fast," so that's disappointing. I can only conclude that it wasn't about the policy itself but about admitting that there is a need for policy.

Democrats are heavily invested in the status quo and even though they're willing to talk about perhaps improving things a little they didn't message about making change. They messaged about doing the same thing better and that message was not convincing.

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NinjaLion@reddit

You have to offer them better solutions to their real problems than the bigoted crap that the GOP does

No. We have endlessly offered big complex multi-factored plans to fix these problems. Biden passed the infrastructure bill, we outperformed the ENTIRE PLANET on inflation. It is simply not relevant. the facts, the policies, the plans, the logic. it doesnt. matter.

The emotional message is the only thing that has impact in this country. energetic emotional messages drive enthusiasm. enthusiasm gets people to the polls, which is the biggest singular reason Harris lost (among a few largeish reasons)

you show them another path that could actually help them and not just give them a target to hate, you'd be surprised how many will listen.

youve almost got it here. its not about showing the path, like i said weve done that time and time again. Its about SELLING the path. The obvious con-man has dominated politically for this reason alone. you have to SELL it, you have to give the emotional surge that targets your audience. highlighting policy just puts the normies to sleep, their eyes glaze over. even the long time democrats, its just human nature. it doesnt get media coverage, theres no time in on-the-clock debates.

Imagine the two headlines "John Democrat discusses his 12 part plan to fix the economy" and "John Democrat on economy: Trump is sad fucking liar, im going to fix this and get everyone's bank accounts comfortable again".

Which one gets more articles, which one gets more clicks, and which one makes a registered PA/WI/GA democrat WANT to go to the polls?

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-SneakySnake-@reddit

Its about SELLING the path

I know. It's a time where an influx of cliched blue collar union types who can passionately argue and aren't afraid to mince words is sorely needed. Sadly, they've been in short supply since, what, the '70s?

Imagine claiming that tens of millions of Americans are Nazis and thinking your argument is even remotely valid. Furthered by a genuinely unhinged take thinking that Trump wants “the blood of immigrants.”

He’s stated numerous times that he’s fine with legal immigration but please, continue the mental gymnastics so that you can justify comparing him to one of the worst mass murders in human history.

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Trip4Life@reddit

Throwing around terms like Nazi when it’s not true is the exact opposite of what you should be doing. I don’t remember any gas camps from 2017-2021, any wars, especially wars for Lebensraum against Mexico or Canada, do you? All that does is desensitize the actual Nazis and what they did while making sure half the country will never support your side.

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NinjaLion@reddit

The 22-year-old nursing student in Georgia who was barbarically murdered by an illegal alien animal. Uh, the Democrats said, "Please don't call them animals. They're humans." I said no, they're not humans. They're not humans, they're animals.

Nancy Pelosi told me that. She said, "Please don't use the word 'animal,' sir, when you're talking about these people." I said, "I'll use the word animal, cause that's what they are."

Donald Trump

After visiting imprisoned Jews in the Łódź ghetto in Nazi-occupied Poland in 1939, Nazi minister of propaganda Joseph Goebbels apparently wrote this about Jews in his diary: “They are not humans; they are animals.”

Joseph Goebbels

“They let — I think the real number is 15, 16 million people into our country. When they do that, we got a lot of work to do. They’re poisoning the blood of our country,” Trump told the crowd at a rally in New Hampshire. “That’s what they’ve done.

Donald Trump

“All great cultures of the past perished only because the originally creative race died out from blood poisoning”

Adolph Hitler

This is not some hidden information, not breaking news. Eventually ignorance stops becoming an excuse.

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Trip4Life@reddit

Wow a few out of context quotes from a known hyperbolic speaker, when did he ever implement Nazi law though? I don’t see Mexicans walking around with an ID card and a symbol sewn to their clothes, where’s the Trump Youth camps? You’re the problem and why young people and men of color shifted hard to the right this year. Take a look at your rhetoric and see why it’s losing. Something is standing out to me very clearly though.

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MercAlert@reddit

Well, this line of reasoning is working out great for us now. Isn’t it?

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NinjaLion@reddit

The line of reasoning from the above post was practiced extensively in 2012-2020, "we go high when they go low" etc. It didnt work then either. The fact is, our harsh or soft language has no material impact on whether or not someone will support facism, either way.

We can simply ask "then why? why support this freak?" and listen. The answers are fairly clear:

1: "the economy" which really means, how are peoples wallets feeling. on exit polls for economic confidence trump beat Harris 79 percent to 20 percent, as wide a margin as you can find in modern politics. Is that factually correct? absolutely not, but remember, i said how are peoples wallets feeling. its an emotional thing, and republican dialogue has been forged and dominated by intense emotion. FUDD works, and its just a psychological fact that it is the most "efficient" way to influence people's emotions.

1.5: How can democrats counter this? not with facts or logic or plans, that simply speaks to another part of the brain. FUDD about project 2025 didnt seem terribly effective, and thats because its not speaking to the energetic emotional base, its speaking to the terrifying somber one. leading to the next reason:

2:enthusiasm, specifically the lack of turnout by Dem voters in swing states. Constantly hearing your opponent drone on about "immigrants poisoning the blood of america" and "eating cats and dogs" does NOT energize people who are against that, its exhausting and demoralizing to see the crowds eat it up and then have to explain to people in real life how stupid and evil it is. However, if you are a trump supporter or immigrant hater or both, and arent familiar/dont care that its almost directly a Hitler quote, then this ENERGIZES you. you go "HELL YEAH" and go to the polls.

2.5: How do democrats counter this? energizing language tailored for their voting base, which as far as i can tell, is a very narrow type of speaking that appeals to positive progressive emotion but without making up bullshit. "hope and change" and... not much else. Harris had a good plan here on paper, kept it simple, "lets turn the page on Trump", "we will not go back". simple is good, finality and resilience is good, but there is no positivity, no enervation. too calm and resolute, which i feel was calculated: we all know how the general public reacts to women who are NOT calm and resolute.

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Northern_fluff_bunny@reddit

The main problem is that democrat’s constantly mock trump supporters or straight up just insult them.

bytemybigbutt@reddit

But this is the fault of the voters. They voted the wrong way.

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Apprehensive-Top3756@reddit

This

If it's one that should have been learned from the brexit referendum it's that insulting people, calking them racist, stupid etc. Doent automatically win you their vote.

Putin just won again last night

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StyleOtherwise8758@reddit

Theo-techno-capitalist perestroika led by our old-but-new fascist leader, or something like that.

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langecrew@reddit

Russia 2.0, but also with a serving of China, and a sprinkling of North Korea.

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Well, no wonder it was all done by his own crazy supporters.

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PermutationMatrix@reddit

Each of the three assassins worked for blackrock in the past.

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NoCantaloupe9598@reddit

Yeah....that dude in some random ad as a teenager was definitely some big whig at Blackrock

He waited until he got the all clear 5 minutes later.

I'm sure if you really want to see if there's probably a picture of Corey Comperatore's body. Or are you suggesting that he's actually alive and hiding on the dark side of the moon?

Was staged pretty well

Crazy as anything qanon says

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MeelyMee@reddit

Yeah it seemed to me there was only one way to stop him and two people failed.

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arcehole@reddit (OP)

Kamala shot herself in the foot by alienating the democratic base, leftist and progressives, to chase the mythical moderate republican who would switch over. That never happened and Trumps anti-incumbency streak,strongman vibes and charisma made him flip deep blue areas as well while Kamala Harris hemorrhaged all support. This is the exact same policy Hilary Clinton ran with in 2016 and while she won the popular vote, Harris appears to be poised to loose the EC and popular vote.

Worse of all the democrats won't learn their lesson and will likely blame everyone but themselves for their loss and likely blame progressive walz and a black women for their loss and not their unpopular policies or covering for a rotting corpse running the nation. Expect to never see a women democrat candidate for 20 years. My guess is Nikki Haley will be the first female president.

Ukraine will be toast, the climate will be toast as trump fights china, gaza is already toast. These were going to be toast under Harris but will be even more toast now. The EU economy will likely deteriorate more as trump closes America off, and the EU pisses china off. Far right parties worldwide will face an upward surge like they did in 2017. Expect more European countries to vote for the far right. Le pen will likely win and so will the AFD in Germany leading to a far right world. Meloni will go even more mask off now as she has USA covering for her.

Trump likely can't pull out of NATO but with several European nations potentially facing economic turmoil and far right parties, NATO is likely to be marginalized and loose all power like the league of nations was.

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aWhiteWildLion@reddit

Kamala shot herself in the foot by alienating the democratic base, leftist and progressives

She never wanted to answer how she’d enforce it. If you have 10 million people who aren’t allowed to be in the country and who’ve already lost all appeals, but still don’t leave, how do you deport them? She was in no way tough on crime.

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anotherblue@reddit

but still don’t leave, how do you deport them?

Basically, you don't, that's what Republicans will do at the end. It is huge logistical nightmare if you would ever attempt to do so.

However, what Kamala could have promised was (note that I do not endorse all points here, just trying to see what could have worked):

Tougher immigration enforcement on borders.
Make it harder to get visitor's visa (many illegals came here legally).
Prepare comprehensive amnesty proposal:
people with any crime/misdemeanor would not be eligible.
Nobody gets green card immediately, just get labor certificate so they can work.
Allow them to leave and safely return to the country. Some percentage will stay (without possibility of returning, many choose never to travel)
Make that they wait certain long time for GC, maybe even not be eligible for one?
And, after getting green card, make it that they never get to be citizens (they did arrive here illegally, after all).
At same time, propose comprehensive immigration reform:
Institute point system by skills, knowledge of English, age, etc. Same as Canada/Australia/New Zeland.
Greatly expand low-skilled labor visas -- make it enough that we cover all agricultural needs for labor. If they leave at the end of contract, they automatically are eligible for next season.

Many things could have been promised. But our big money actually rely on low-paying labor of undocumented, so they will not allow changing of status quo.

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MrOaiki@reddit

So mainly your point here is that you shouldn’t enforce court decisions of deportation because you ”can’t”. Instead, the law should change. I’m not surprised democrats lost, if that’s the narrative. Rule of law is nothing if the law can’t be enforced.

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anotherblue@reddit

Well, that's reality we have to deal with... There are tens of millions people illegally in US.

US also does not have mandatory residence registration, does not allow, in general, police to stop you and ID you without probable cause (of course, practice here deviates too much from that).

How you are going to identify all those? Are we are going to have police going "papers, please" at everyone on the street?

Next, even if you manage to identify them, there is matter of rounding them up, housing them, feeding them, and processing them. Then you'll need hundred of thousands of flights to send them to their countries, if you can identify those (why would they disclose that they are, let's say, from Guatemala if they do not have papers anyway?)

You also cannot drive them to Mexico border and dump them over there -- on the first hint of this happening, Mexico will close the border. They do not want those any more than Americans wants them (and mostly they are not their nationals).

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the-apple-and-omega@reddit

she tried to appeal to the extreme left and the ”progressive” left

???? This is just objectively false.

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MrOaiki@reddit

It’s in no way false. She said Israel has the ”right to defend itself but…” followed by some talk about ceasefire and Gaza’s dignity, to not alienate the party’s left flank. She proposed forgivable loans if you have black skin color (!). Among other insane ideas that in no way appealed to anyone other than the fringe left.

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SirLadthe1st@reddit

Kamala shot herself in the foot by alienating the democratic base, leftist and progressives, to chase the mythical moderate republican who would switch over

If this doesn't convince the world that the centrist pandering to right wing electorate at the expense of their own votes is a bad idea, I don't know what will. Funny that the center and left-of-center parties are the only ones that preach about "finding the common ground" "discussing the citizen's valuable concerns" or "bringing people back to the center". The right wing only gets more right wing and radical every year, no matter what concessions you make to them.

Kamala could agree to forbid trans women access to the women's bathrooms to appease Trump, and he and his crew would simply start talking about banning their public appearances. She could agree to reinstate the Muslim ban after getting elected, and Trump's crew would just start demanding she kicks the people who are already in the country.

I am not just criticizing the US btw, it's the same shit we see in Europe now, the far right movement started out by complaining about too many refugees being let in, the mainstream started appeasing them and now the far right dreams of mass deportations of perfectly legal citizens (looking at you, Germany).

No wonder left-of-center voters staying at home while right wingers are getting more emboldened is an issue in so many countries. There's just so many times you can tell the people to "vote for the greater good" or "help stop the rise of modern facism" when at the same you're abandoning your electorate in favor of some hardcore conservatives that will never vote for you in the end.

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VaseaPost@reddit

Dumb take, but I support it, go more far left, please.

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LonelyDilo@reddit

Lol. This is such a dumb take. We lost the election specifically because people don't care about social issues. "Woke" turned them off, and since the average American can't tell the difference between correlation and causation, they think Trump will be good for the economy. Americans are dumb and cannot think in the long term.

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CaveRanger@reddit

We're talking leftist economic policy, which the Democrats have refused to engage with. Actually working with labor, unions and enforcing existing anti-trust and wage laws. Blue-haired neoliberal bullshit isn't a winning strategy, but people like Sanders have shown that you can win labor over and get them to vote for a leftist if you actually promise them something meaningful.

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SalokinSekwah@reddit

We're talking leftist economic policy, which the Democrats have refused to engage with. Actually working with labor, unions and enforcing existing anti-trust and wage laws

You had that for four years, didn't mean anything. Inflation ate away at wages and that's that

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MonsteraMaple@reddit

Correct. More Woke is not what the majority of democrats gave a damn about. This was an anti Trump vote - and Harris / dems never made a case for why they should be voted in other than Trump=bad.

Also as I said earlier - they showed they didn’t give a shit about the American people - all the people who were around Biden watching him turn into a puddle never said a word. They wanted power , not truth. Should have picked Gavin Newsome 3 years ago and moved on. Instead me got last minute scraps of an administration that never learned how to work with its own base. They are power hungry, they are professional politicians, they don’t give a shit about us. I feel bad for the American people, but I feel nothing for this slimy democratic failure.

What you describe is the centre left who accepted the third way of not restraining capitalism and pasting over the gaps with a bit of social spending and hope general economic growth is enough. This has pretty much run out of road but the cost of breaking from it is seen as too high.

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SalokinSekwah@reddit

not their unpopular policies

Like what? Voters hated inflation, outside of last minute radical price controls, can't fix that

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Bororang@reddit

yap yap little doggie

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Ganglerman@reddit

Turns out Liz Cheney was not the answer to becoming more popular, who could have known.

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silverionmox@reddit

Turns out Liz Cheney was not the answer to becoming more popular, who could have known.

When fascists try to legitimize their power, what do we want? Everyone to come to their senses and rally to oppose them, together, even if they're otherwise ideologically opposed, because having a democracy is better for us all. Now that some republicans actually do so, they are snubbed because some people feel too good for them.

This kind of purity contests and virtue signalling is a major reason why the Left often loses to Rightwing parties even when they have the majority of the population behind them, compared to the Right who just fall in line behind who can project to be powerful.

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ProletarianRevolt@reddit

Everyone to come to their senses and rally to oppose them, together, even if they're otherwise ideologically opposed to us, because having a democracy is better for us all.

What people like yourself fail to understand is that in these politically polarized times, when people are desperately casting around for someone who will promise change, you LOSE support by trying to appeal to both sides of the aisle. By trying to appeal to everyone, you end up pleasing no one. When you triangulate and vacillate between positions instead of being the champion of one side over the other, with a coherent vision for change and a fighting spirit, you end up with no one feeling like you’re truly on their side. Except of course for the small segment of comfortable people who are sufficiently insulated from material conditions to prioritize abstractions like bipartisanship and civility and other nonsense like that. Democrats tried the exact strategy you’re advocating in both 2016 and 2024, and arguably did in 2020 as well but managed to squeak by with a few tens of thousands of votes. How did that work out?

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SalokinSekwah@reddit

with a coherent vision for change and a fighting spirit

And that's what Harris offered, at least more so than Trump, you seem to think that his platform was more coherent

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silverionmox@reddit

What people like yourself fail to understand is that in these politically polarized times, when people are desperately casting around for someone who will promise change, you LOSE support by trying to appeal to both sides of the aisle. By trying to appeal to everyone, you end up pleasing no one. When you triangulate and vacillate between positions instead of being the champion of one side over the other, with a coherent vision for change and a fighting spirit, you end up with no one feeling like you’re truly on their side. Except of course for the small segment of comfortable people who are sufficiently insulated from material conditions to prioritize abstractions like bipartisanship and civility and other nonsense like that. Democrats tried the exact strategy you’re advocating in both 2016 and 2024, and arguably did in 2020 as well but managed to squeak by with a few tens of thousands of votes. How did that work out?

Whatever direction they pick, it will still alienate the smaller groups on the other sides.

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ProletarianRevolt@reddit

Is that so? If picking a lane and sticking to it is such a bad strategy, why did Trump win twice against candidates who did what you’re suggesting?

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Unless Newsom runs.

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joevarny@reddit

If only they knew as long as everyone else did that Biden was in decline.

They could have prepared a proper replacement well in advance and given the people a primary.

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MonsteraMaple@reddit

That’s something I have trouble letting go of. They were knowingly deceptive and dishonest. Had they been honest and found a new front runner before the American people had to watch that sad debate - we may feel purpose and not just reaction. The dems are to blame for all this. And the average moderate American now has to deal with 4 more years of Trump.

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silverionmox@reddit

If only they knew as long as everyone else did that Biden was in decline.

They could have prepared a proper replacement well in advance and given the people a primary.

With these numbers, that's just an excuse. There are large shifts towards the Trump party in every part of the country, this has sociological reasons, not ancillary ones like the choice of candidate.

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joevarny@reddit

No, trump got practically the same as the last 2 times. This is because people didn't vote, not switched.

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Kamala shot herself in the foot by alienating the democratic base, leftist and progressives, to chase the mythical moderate republican who would switch over. That never happened and Trumps anti-incumbency streak,strongman vibes and charisma made him flip deep blue areas as well while Kamala Harris hemorrhaged all support. This is the exact same policy Hilary Clinton ran with in 2016 and while she won the popular vote, Harris appears to be poised to loose the EC and popular vote.

No. She did the correct thing by ignoring the leftists and progressives. America (and much of the west) is moving towards the right so any appeasement for those leftists and progressives would've been in vain.

Worse of all the democrats won't learn their lesson and will likely blame everyone but themselves for their loss and likely blame progressive walz and a black women for their loss and not their unpopular policies or covering for a rotting corpse running the nation. Expect to never see a women democrat candidate for 20 years.

Well Harris did perform well all things considered especially since she wasn't a favored candidate in the primaries nor did she have enough time to rally for the elections plus her opponent has a strong cult of personality so imo I think she has a good chance of winning in next election

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EH1987@reddit

I'm amazed your brain doesn't just explode from the cognitive dissonance you must be experiencing right now.

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CentJr@reddit

Eh pretty sure my brain works just fine. Thank you very much. Now alot of redditors on the hand...

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You really expect me to believe "the base" of the Democratic party would choose Trump over Harris by staying home?

Not really cause you're fucking delusional. I've pretty much given up idiots like you.

Harris right now has 66 million votes compared to 81 million that Joe Biden got last election. Trump's on track to winning with pretty much the same 74 million votes he got last election.

What do you think happened to the 20 or so million votes that Harris didn't get? Do you think they all died? Do you think they voted 3rd party (spoiler they didn't)? It would seem they chose to not show up, exactly what I'm saying. But please tell me more how you don't believe the facts right in front of your face.

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Melodic-Cat3026@reddit

Biden is a moderate, he is the prototype for a moderate. That is why he beat Trump.

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in_rainbows8@reddit

What kind of campaign do you think Harris won? A left wing one or basically the exact same one as Joe Biden?

She was more right wing arguably than Biden and she didn't even win the popular vote. You're delusional dude. Wake up.

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Melodic-Cat3026@reddit

You can call people delusional and tell them to grow up and yada yada but it’s true

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in_rainbows8@reddit

It's not true. More than 50% of voters said she was the same as Biden and from the same poll over 50% wanted her to break with Biden. You're wrong, get over it.

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AresBloodwrath@reddit

But please tell me more how you don't believe the facts right in front of your face.

What facts? All I see are assumptions that allow you to contort the results to affirm your beliefs. There is no proof those who stayed home are "the base" of the Democratic party. You are assuming that. They could be centrist voters who just didn't like Trump's handling of COVID so they turned out to vote against him but didn't like Harris as all the polls showed she was viewed as "too liberal" at a much higher rate than Trump was viewed as "too conservative".

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/09/08/us/politics/times-siena-poll-toplines.html?fbclid=IwY2xjawGYbYNleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHXEH0ybMy_5UJV5_yagjDvUPslEZUkWbIucnQDMedBQsQzCfsi-PJcZMcQ_aem_baP1lArJMXl0a1pOCIP7dw

The truth is Harris was never viewed as pushing right. She was seen as too left because of the far left positions she was on the record taking in the 2020 primary, oh, and her values haven't changed.

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in_rainbows8@reddit

The truth is Harris was never viewed as pushing right. She was seen as too left because of the far left positions she was on the record taking in the 2020 primary, oh, and her values haven't changed.

This is categorically false. Only 44% of those polled viewed her as too far left. She has flipped on practically all issues that she was progressive on and campaigned with basically the same strategy as Joe Biden.

Also same poll you listed had over 50% both saying they wanted her to break from Biden and that she was too much like Biden. She ran a right wing campaign full stop and the poll you posted directly goes against this narrative that there is a mythical silent majority of conservatives in this country.

Also imagine saying I'm the one making shit up while you insist people who didn't show up for a center right campaign were centrists who didn't think she was center enough. Pure contradiction.

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AresBloodwrath@reddit

Well anyone who thought Harris was "too conservative" now has a real conservative for a president. I hope they're happy.

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EH1987@reddit

I think campaigning on progressive policies that are actually popular and help ordinary people would have been far more successful than trying to attract Bush-era republicans, but that's me.

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NuQ@reddit

The lessons learned from 2016 were that you shouldn't try to court progressives at the expense of most of america.

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It's the economy/inflation that caused her to lose. I think if things were (economically) better then she would've had a better chance to win the White House.

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in_rainbows8@reddit

During the campaign she literally said she would have done nothing different than Joe Biden when 70% of the electorate wanted change from Joe Biden. She lost not because of the economy but because she didn't nothing to differentiate herself from Biden.

Voters polled when they swapped her in were, by massive margins, willing to give her the benefit of the doubt on every issue. She threw it all that away trying to win over Republicans instead of talking about kitchen table issues.

Fuck out of here with this nonsense

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Soonhun@reddit

I don't have much faith in American leftists and progressives who decided not to vote against Trump just because Harris tried to win over moderates. They really saw the two and walked away, not caring which one won? This was a mistake on each group's part.

I heard that the democrats spent 3 times as much on the campaign as the republicans, and got this result?

Karmala is gone man, no donor is going to waste money on her again.

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in_rainbows8@reddit

No. She did the correct thing by ignoring the leftists and progressives.

THEN WHY THE FUCK DID SHE LOSE YOU DUMB PRICK? SERIOUSLY HOW CAN YOU SAY THIS WHEN SHES ON TRACK TO NOT JUST LOSE THE ELECTORAL VOTE BUT ALSO THE POPULAR VOTE. HOW ARE YOU PEOPLE THIS FUCKING STUPID?

LIZ CHENEY DOES NOT HAVE A CONSTITUENCY. ANYONE WHO LIKES REPUBLICAN POLICY IS GONNA VOTE FOR REPUBLICANS AS THIS ELECTION HAS VERY CLEARLY SHOWN.

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NuQ@reddit

leftists and progressives are not the democratic base.

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Other_Waffer@reddit

And they were not enough to elect her. Dems need the leftists. You bet most of those who stayed at home support Palestine.

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NuQ@reddit

Wouldn't they have voted for a pro-palestine candidate instead of staying home? I highly doubt palestine was the deal breaker, here. If it was, That's even worse.

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Bidens_Erect_Tariffs@reddit

They said they wanted to end drone strikes. The Democrats got no credit when Joe Biden did exactly that. They said they wanted an end to the American presence in Afghanistan. Joe Biden sacrificed 40 million Afghans for the whims of the American leftist and it didn't help the Democrats at all. They said they wanted student loan forgiveness and the Democrats delivered as much as was legally possible and they got no credit.

Yeah I don’t think a single progressive obtained from voting for her. The socialists didn’t though.

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ElvenNeko@reddit

Ukraine will be toast,

That is true, but we were doomed right from the start when "allies" decided to drip feed the weapons to make sure russians won't lose the war. And notice - right now, knowing that his party won't rule in near future Biden's hands are untied, he can give 50% of US total weapons to Ukraine, he can allow them to hit anywhere, he can even give nukes - this is his last chance to make a significant change in the situation.

Not really, unless you are Israel or something.

The world has moved way left socially. Economically yeah probably more right or "free", but that's also a result of that seeming to work more.

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anotherblue@reddit

The world has moved way left socially.

Not really, shift was too big for many to swallow, and they swung back to socially conservative views.

And that's why Dems lost.

[-]

meister2983@reddit

On a relative basis maybe. No one cares about letting gay people marry anymore - you'd look like some ultra left wacko suggesting that 40 years ago.

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amendment64@reddit

They're gonna take gay marriage away and we'll be back to 40 years ago so, we're pretty f'ed

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anotherblue@reddit

I am not talking about gay marriage. It is settled stuff.

I am talking about my healthcare election form saying things like "are you a person capable of giving birth" to avoid calling woman a woman.

Or about allowing prepubescent kids to undergo hormonal therapy and gender reassignment surgeries. If I came to doctor and asked them to cut off my arm, they will (rightly) refer me to a psychiatrist, to thread my mental illness. But if I want to cut the dick or tits off, no problem! When you can come in?

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WonkyHonky69@reddit

And it’s only going to get worse in coming decades as climate change causes many developing nations to become increasingly uninhabitable, prompting more civil unrest, war, and mass refugees. Developed nations don’t take well to refugees

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PartySr@reddit

Fun election. Yelling "Trump bad" was a great idea, instead of having a platform where they are promoting the future of America.

Trump was too important for them, instead of the rest.

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xavier120@reddit

Dems had a platform for the future of america, nobody cared, if Republicans can just run on saying whatever they want to matter how untrue, why would the dem platform matter?

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PartySr@reddit

why would the dem platform matter

Because they were supposed to reach the people who staid home, not talk to the republicans. They refused to do that.

Instead they sent Clinton to tell to the Arabas and the Muslims how Israel is forced to kill the children in Gaza.

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xavier120@reddit

Dems reached out to everyone, they didnt snub anyone, youre just making excuses for people who supported a rapist. Nobody is holding the criminal voters accountable.

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Phnrcm@reddit

Dems reached out to everyone

Dems on reddit, social media and IRL mute and ban people for talking about politics like democrat should have a primary.

Dems didn't reach out to everyone but rather made centrists to double down on their beliefs.

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xavier120@reddit

Dems on reddit, social media and IRL mute and ban people for talking about politics like democrat should have a primary.

Why would you primary an incumbent? Thats like saying, "we actually didnt make the choice last time but trust us to make the right choice this time". Its wishful thinking and zero awareness of all the ways it would backfire.

This is exactly the kind of statement that is incomprehensible to me. The Republicans are the ones voting for Trump because they're sick of the rich getting richer? Trump and musk and co are literally the richest getting richer. This is just one of so many examples like this that I just can't understand

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edki7277@reddit

I think both of you missing the point. War in Gaza and/or who democrats were able to reach this time around are not the main reasons trump won so decisively. It is a failure of Democratic Party to represent change that lost them this election. Imagine how dissatisfied American public is with their immigration and border security policy and their preference of Wall Street economy instead of reducing unbearable cost of living. How can one claim they represent change if some of the top democratic leaders have been occupying their sits for almost 30 years!

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Mavian23@reddit

Imagine how dissatisfied American public is with their immigration and border security policy

I seem to remember Trump killing a bipartisan border security bill that was hailed by Mitch McConnell and supported by the Border Patrol Union. So the people who are dissatisfied with border security voted in the guy who killed the border security bill. We live in backwards land.

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edki7277@reddit

Oh, don’t get me wrong… I’m on your side. I know republicans killed the bill to keep the issue relevant for the elections instead of actually fixing it. My argument is, why did Biden administration think that keeping border wide open for 3.5 years is good for US?

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Mavian23@reddit

Well, that's a good question.

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icatsouki@reddit

It's about how trump makes people feel, with stuff like drain the swamp etc

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Lazy-Sisyphus@reddit

You think that millions of people staid home because of Gaza

YES. THEYVE BEEN SCREAMING FROM THE ROOFTOP IS FOR MONTHS THAT THAT WAS WHAT THEY WERE GONNA DO

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aneq@reddit

This is delusional. They would’ve lost many more votes if they switched their stance to anti-Israel and pushed more votes toward Trump.

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Assassinduck@reddit

I guess we will never know, but I somehow doubt that. They had the "We aren't trump" Chokehold on libs, so the leftists and the left of center libs who have a conscience, would have come out for them, and would have helped energize the stay-at-home crowd. The centrist Zionist voters weren't likely to vote for them anyway, and the right-wingers they tried to court didn't help at all. Somehow, I doubt that a progressive, anti-racist campaign, would have been worse for them.

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Icy-Cry340@reddit

Every older democrat I know is exasperated with the "progressive anti-racist" crowd. Those types aren't energizing anyone except for themselves. And they already vote.

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Assassinduck@reddit

So those older Dems would have voted republican then? Or stayed home? Cuz if not, then their feelings on the matter don't matter much.

Election optics and messaging are about winning the voters you have to work for, and not losing the base you already had. Dems had to work to get a portion of the base that needed energizing to vote, and that group can safely be said to be younger voters. Had they ran a progressive anti-racist campaign, with a clear action plan for how to get the stuff they had on their Todo list, done, and successfully used the populist wave they were riding in July, they would only have lost the people who were already not going to vote for them and maybe the Zionist vote, but they stood to gain millions of votes from people who don't really care unless you show them a plan and some drive to be not-Biden.

Instead, they chose the strategy that saw them lose the base they already had, and didn't energize the usually-stay-at-home, people, and those people are no guarantee for any party since they don't vote regularly. Courting republicans and center-right people doesn't just affect their standing amongst those people, but also the people in their pre-existing base.

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Icy-Cry340@reddit

Many likely did stay home, and the huge drop in turnout was very visible. And had republicans nominated anyone other than trump, many would have switched parties already.

I live in what is possibly the most progressive place in the US, and I'm tired to death of the "progressive anti-racist" crew too. You're not going to motivate people that way.

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Assassinduck@reddit

Welp, okay if you say so, then I guess the Dems are going to lose forever, because the same old same old, and going further to the right, will just see them lose even more support year over year.

You gotta find some way to get people to vote, and if you think being progressive isn't the formula then y'all gotta get cooking, cuz the options are basically non existent.

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Icy-Cry340@reddit

Democrats are not a leftist party - they're a center-right party, just not as right as the republicans. They forget this at their peril.

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Assassinduck@reddit

I agree, and it seems that they remembered this quite quickly around after the Democratic National convention. That didn't seem to help them win, and I have a feeling that going even more center right, won't be the way to victory. We will just have to see, but I'll bet money that they will just do the same thing, or more to the right, the next time, and they will lose again.

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Icy-Cry340@reddit

Next time, we will be coming off Trump’s fuckups, they’ll probably win.

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aneq@reddit

Taking anti-Israel stance by Harris means that Trump becomes the pro-Israel candidate, pushing all the Jewish vote towards him.

Trump campaign played Israel perfectly with Rep politicians even visiting Israel and scribbling „finish them off” on Israeli bombs. The left seethed and Dems could either lose some progressives or placate the left and lose moderates/pro-Israel voters.

They lost because Rep campaign took advantage of that, but if they flipped on Israel they would’ve lost even harder.

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xavier120@reddit

I really still dont understand how killing the progressive movement by snubbing dems was gonna help the progressive movement.

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ali_h1@reddit

Nobody snubbed the dems my guy... again, you think some collective hive-mind conspired for their downfall when the dems couldn't motivate, galvanize and inspire enough people because the abandoned the policies and ideas that did that for many people.

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xavier120@reddit

Trump didnt even propose a healthcare plan, youre saying the dems have to bend over backwards and touch their heels to win, trump can suck off a microphone stand and win. Youre not rational.

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anotherblue@reddit

dems have to bend over backwards and touch their heels to win

Believe it or not access to healthcare is a an issue shared by everyone with a body. How does one come to think of going to the doctor as a "leftist" issue and offering a way for everyone to do that to just be pandering?

You say Dems offer a plan but they don't. They have no vision. Yes, they produce a platform and sometimes talk about policy, but they can't make a serious offer to address people's real problems, like healthcare or housing, for one simple reason: the people who profit from those problems are the same people who fund their campaigns

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Civsi@reddit

You're spot on, but it's funny seeing how many intellectuals who were calling this shit out the whole time were still so shocked by it.

You've got people who are well aware of how brutal American imperialism is, and how both parties have continuously put the interests of capital before their own voters. And yet those same people somehow expected Democrats to fucking do something different this time. We know who these people are. We know what their priorities are. We know of the institutions and processes which birth and shape them.

I was watching Hassan's stream yesterday night and one of his guests was losing his shit railing the Democratic party for doing exactly what they've done for decades.... Like, no shit? That's what happens when you legitimize corporate blood suckers. They didn't JUST abandon and fail the American people. They've done this every fucking election to date.

I don't think this had as much to do with messaging. The bottom line is that things were better for many people under Trump. They don't care about his bluster. They care that their lives were better. Economics and inflation have consistently ranked near the top of issues for voters.

41% of Americans rate cost of living and inflation as their top economic concern. This is the highest on record. The next highest issue is cost of owning/renting a home at 14%.
According to the same survey, 55% are worried about maintaining their standard of living.
According to the same survey, 56% are worried about paying for medical costs for a serious illness or accident.
According to the same survey, 59% are worried about not having enough money for retirement.
According to the same survey, those on lower and middle incomes score worse across the board on these issues.
According to the same survey, 47% of Americans believe their personal financial situation is getting worse. Only 43% believe it is getting better.
Food inflation over the last few years has been the worst in 30 years.
In fact, all inflation has been the worst since 1981.
CPI doesn’t include interest rates. If it did, it would be catastrophically high. Now everyone is locked in place because they can’t afford to move.
Home sales recently hit their lowest in 30 years.
2023 was the worst year to buy a house since the 90s.
The rent index has basically gone vertical.
House price to income ratio is the worst on record.
Homelessness just hit the highest rate since the government began recording it in 2007.
Medical care costs are up 30% in a decade.
All job growth since 2019 has gone to immigrants. One can only imagine the incredible competition and downward pressure on wages and working conditions workers in these areas have experienced. In fact, the labour force participation rate for less educated “prime age” (25-54) U.S. born men remains at historic lows. That’s a big chunk of the population.
During 2022, only 45 percent of people had positive real wage growth.

The economy isn't working for many people. You can blame that on covid, Trump, or aliens, but the bottom line is that the people in charge get the blame for how things are going.

Now consider another top issue: illegal immigration. More than eight million confirmed illegal immigrants since Biden and Harris took office. This is arguably unprecedented. Further, these are just the confirmed encounters. Estimates of total illegal entrants are between 10-20 million. This isn't Biden and Harris just being unlucky. They completely dismantled all of the measures Trump had put in place which were clearly working. They did this, and voters didn't like it.

I haven't even touched on culture war issues. The average voter does not want trans women beating women senseless in sports. They don't want children undergoing dangerous medical treatments for gender dysphoria. They don't want to fund gender transition for illegal immigrants. They don't want abortion legalised nationally until the day of birth. They don't want people being chosen for positions of power and authority based on sexism and racism.

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IBlazeMyOwnPath@reddit

I agree with you about how people felt their lives were better being a driving force, but I don't think it fair to discount the fact that the Dems are horrible with their messaging, and IMO it boils down to their sense of superiority

The gaslighting about how amazing Kamala was, the way they put down people's concerns over things like inflation (not real, transitory, small) when prices are still so visible at the store, weekend-at-bidens, sending Obama to scold black men, heck even when they're right they do things like the Clinton stunt in Michigan (though I think the arab vote turned out to be inconsequential and they shouldn't have tried their awkward lane splitting strategy)

Politics is about selling yourself and your message to voters, just being a good administrator (which Kamala from leaks we've heard she absolutely isn't that either) isn't enough

The messaging is everything, and I think that ties in to meeting voters where their issues are, not telling them you know best

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SowingSalt@reddit

Inflation is a global problem, which the US seems to be the bottom of the OECD for.

Most of it can be tracked to ongoing trade disruptions from COVID and the wars.

The Democrats have tried to alleviate those issues, but Trump, as front-runner for his party, has ugrged congressional Republicans to vote against bipartisan measures.

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New-Connection-9088@reddit

Inflation affected each country differently. The U.S. actually peaked at 9.1%, which was near the top of the OECD. As a result, cumulatively, Americans have lost more then 23% of their purchasing power since Biden took office. Voters have decided that inflation could have, and should have, been lower, but because of excessive spending, lockdowns, and poor leadership, was too high. It's clear that voters are sick of the excuses.

The Republicans voted against even higher spending, which would have exacerbated inflation further.

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SowingSalt@reddit

I hate that people want to have more people die on the off chance that inflation would be lower.

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New-Connection-9088@reddit

I think your mistake is in believing that the only two options were killing old people, or high inflation. Sweden didn't have lockdowns, had a 40% lower mortality rate, but still had higher inflation. Switzerland had 48% lower mortality, mild lockdowns, and much lower inflation. It's a lot more complicated than you believe, and appears, unsurprisingly, to be much more correlated with how much stimulus was injected into the economy. The U.S. was truly world class spenders during covid, and every piece of data and every economic theory and economist will explain that that is a primary cause of America's inflation.

Both parties campaigned on increasing spending, either through tax cuts, or government programs. No one believes the Republicans are going to reduce the deficit, and that's clearly not what voters care about.

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SowingSalt@reddit

I think your mistake is in believing that the only two options were killing old people, or high inflation. Sweden didn't have lockdowns, had a 40% lower mortality rate, but still had higher inflation.

This is sort of my point: people think no lockdowns => lower inflation.

They ignore the infrastructure breakdown caused by the pandemic.

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New-Connection-9088@reddit

If the issue were "infrastructure breakdown caused by the pandemic", why didn't Switzerland and Japan experience similarly high inflation? It's probably a factor, but clearly a minor one.

I can't speak to whether people believe inflation was caused by lockdowns. Neither of us have the data on that. All we know is that economic policy enacted by the Biden and Harris administration caused much of it, and voters punished them for it.

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SowingSalt@reddit

I guess it's a matter of how dependent on ocean shipping or foreign trade you are.

Freight/bulk rates have been high these past few years, given the pandemic, the war around the Suez, the drought in Panama...

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New-Connection-9088@reddit

It doesn't get more shipping and trade dependent than Japan. They're net energy and food importers. The U.S. is a net exporter of both, by a large margin.

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SowingSalt@reddit

I think Japan benefit from the necessary stream of empty containers going towards China.

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Icy-Cry340@reddit

Home sales recently hit their lowest in 30 years.

Good, prices have to come down - this has been a bubble for a long time, and it needs to pop.

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loggy_sci@reddit

We don’t know the extent to which trans issues impacted this election. Please don’t spread this anti-lgbt nonsense like it’s fact.

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xavier120@reddit

Just because 51% of people voted that the earth is flat doesnt make it true. every trump voter is about to be the painter trump doesnt pay after they worked for him.

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Bramkanerwatvan@reddit

Objectivety is not the most important part in politics. Its emotions. All you need to do in politics is convince people. Not facts. They might be a tool, but thats it.

she didn't snub anyone

holy shit you can't be serious right now. She sent Bill Clinton to Michigan to tell the Muslim voting bloc to shut up and stop crying about Palestine, yet it's the voters' fault she lost?

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xavier120@reddit

Yeah and Bill was right. Piss babies on the left need to grow up.

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Lazy-Sisyphus@reddit

you guys are just as insistent as you were in 2016 about never fucking learning from your mistakes

may you get the government you deserve.

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xavier120@reddit

Im a progressive who wanted a democratic president and a push in the right direction. It doesnt matter what the dems did, the progressive movement is a failure and im embarassed for you all.

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JoBoltaHaiWoHotaHai@reddit

Pro genocide progressive? Wild

[-]

You're going to have to write coherent sentences if you want proper answers, I refuse to puzzle out meaning from this screed.

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xavier120@reddit

It did not matter if kamala was different from biden, they were both better than trump. So you dont really give a fuck about gaza, you only care that dems pander to you.

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Vegetable-College-17@reddit

It did not matter if kamala was different from biden, they were both better than trump

Not in any way that matters, if they were genuinely better than trump in the issue, you'd have something more to say than "trump will do what Biden's doing, but more of it".

It also really did matter that Kamala was in no way different from biden, who was so extremely unpopular they had to switch him out with a candidate that didn't even manage to get a single vote in the 2020 primary.

So you dont really give a fuck about gaza,

Republicans think democrats don't care about LGBTQ people and are just virtue signaling, democrats believe leftists do not care about Palestine and are just being difficult.

you only care that dems pander to you.

You'll want to take a look at my flair.

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xavier120@reddit

Not in any way that matters,

This is delusional, it mattered, now palestine is toast

you'd have something more to say than "trump will do what Biden's doing, but more of it".

So you arent really connected to reality if you think biden and trump are the same. They arent the same

The rest of this drivel is just bot talking points. You arent a serious person

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Vegetable-College-17@reddit

now palestine is toast

Was it doing especially well beforehand? Maybe Kamala would've built an extra pier for ghaza?

They arent the same

Explain to me how trump will do something to Palestine that biden hasn't been doing.

The rest of this drivel is just bot talking points. You arent a serious person

Hysterical whining isn't going to help you much over the next four years, maybe you can get some practice blaming lefties over that duration by refuting my other points.

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xavier120@reddit

Was it doing especially well beforehand?

Yes, it had a chance under dems, now it has nothing. All that shit about genocide joe was for nothing. Palestine is toast.

Explain to me how trump will do something to Palestine that biden hasn't been doing.

Biden would withhold aid, trump wont.

Hysterical whining isn't going to help you much over the next four years, maybe you can get some practice blaming lefties over that duration by refuting my other points.

You can join reality or you can join the zombie horde detached from reality. You only get to choose one.

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Vegetable-College-17@reddit

Yes, it had a chance under dems,

What was the chance? The pier? Explain please.

Biden would withhold aid, trump wont.

He says he will withhold aid, he says he has redlines, he's yet to meaningfully prove either of those two statements to be true.

You can join reality or you can join the zombie horde detached from reality. You only get to choose one.

Ditto, biden is historically unpopular, not distancing herself from him meant she got that unpopularity by association.

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xavier120@reddit

What was the chance? The pier? Explain please.

you do concede that palestine exists right? So they had a chance to survive the war with democrats. Now Israel can do whatever they want and there's nothing you can do about it. Please explain how palestine survives an unstoppable israel, biden kept limits on Israel, trump wont. You keep comparing biden and trump, but trump is now in charge, israel is free to wipe out palestine. What are you gonna do when trump flattens palestine? Youre prolly gonna blame biden.

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Vegetable-College-17@reddit

biden kept limits on Israel

What limits?

israel is free to wipe out palestine

Was it not allowed to do to Palestine what it did to ghaza before? Was Harris going to draw a red line about Israel going into rafah, biden style?

Youre prolly gonna blame biden.

It's been one year and I've been thoroughly convinced that the entire American political apparatus and a sizable portion of the populace is fine with the extermination of Palestinians, but Biden's lack of spine is a highlight of the entire process.

now Israel can do whatever they want and there's nothing you can do about it.

That was already the case.

Please explain how palestine survives an unstoppable israel,

If Palestine survives, it's not going to be because of biden's lack of spine or a possible deviation from Harris.

There are a lot of places where Harris and trump differ, Palestine isn't one of those.

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xavier120@reddit

It doesnt seem like you are capable of understanding the difference between the 2 political positions. the willful ignorance just makes you look like you dont actually care about palestine. I feel sorry for the palestinians because they are gonna pay the price for your inability to understand the reality of the situation.

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Vegetable-College-17@reddit

See? Barely half an hour and you've already learned that you can personally insult me instead of defending your own points.

You're like an honorary republican at this point, great job 👍.

Now, please, give me one fucking red line and or limit biden has enforced on Israel, please.

I feel sorry for the palestinians because they are gonna pay the price for your inability to understand the reality of the situation.

Apparently, the entire situation relies on my inability to consider Biden's little games of pretend as genuine attempts.

Again, please, give a concrete example of biden enforcing a limit or a red line on Israel.

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xavier120@reddit

Apparently, the entire situation relies on my inability to consider Biden's little games of pretend as genuine attempts.

Yeah, you are unable to admit that biden was keeping limits on the IDF, so youll just keep gaslighting yourself because you cant admit you are wrong. Youll just say it didnt matter when trump is helping turn palestine into a parking lot. its the cowards way out.

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Vegetable-College-17@reddit

Please, just one fucking example, please.

I'll admit whatever you want, as long as you give me a concrete, important example that I can't find a "biden quietly rolls back..." Headline about, I'll even try to vote Harris from all the way over here in Iran.

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the-apple-and-omega@reddit

Because they were supposed to reach the people who stayed home, not talk to the republicans.

It's staggering just how obvious this is in the election results, but I'm sure the party will learn nothing from it as usual.

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SalokinSekwah@reddit

It's staggering just how obvious this is in the election results

They did reach out tho

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Canadabestclay@reddit

If anything goods come of the democrats it’s that I finally realized they helped me soldify my belief that the dems are useless and start organizing with actual leftists in my area. Bidens presidency was an eye opening moment for me and helped push me the direction I am today.

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xavier120@reddit

Nothing good will come of this, the progressives only chance to succeed was to support the dems. Since thet didnt the progressive movement is dead, there's no point now.

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Canadabestclay@reddit

Nah the progressives have been cooked since Biden won but haven’t realized it they’re like a bunch of beaten dogs going back to their master in hopes they’ll change (they won’t). I realized that pretty early on and found an alternative that actually makes me not feel like a piece of garbage but also means I don’t need to interact with dems.

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xavier120@reddit

I realized that pretty early on and found an alternative that actually makes me not feel like a piece of garbage but also means I don’t need to interact with dems.

Where is this fantasy land? There is no progressive movement now, so what the fuck do you think youre gonna do?

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Canadabestclay@reddit

Party of socialism and liberation pretty early in the Biden presidency around the rail strike I found myself realizing that I despised liberals, liberalism, and the Democratic Party and started moving left and can now proudly say I’m a Marxist Leninist. Progressives are just the poor saps who haven’t realized yet that the dems have no intention of listening to them.

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SalokinSekwah@reddit

Trump won the EV and PV, evidently his non-policies are appealing

Party of socialism and liberation

The pro hamas and Russia party? I don't think they would poll well nor would any of their policies

can now proudly say I’m a Marxist Leninist

No universal healthcare which the dems have promised since the 1940’s isn’t a win, Biden threatening rail workers with jail if they went on strike for some very reasonable and basic rights is the opposite of a win, 40000 dead with no red lines no repercussions and no sanctions isn’t a win.

The dems are a right wing party any leftist “wins” are either coincidental or a compromise so that the dems can stop a popular movement from going further left. They have never had the intention of carrying out their promises even when they actively have the power to do so and I’m tired of libs making excuse after excuse for their behavior and making it seem like leftists are the ones a fault for not mindlessly following a party meant to uphold neoliberal capitalism an intensely right wing ideology on every level.

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xavier120@reddit

Again, not sure how any of this helps leftists win. Its self defeating and leftists are to blame for all their failures.

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LonelyDilo@reddit

lol biden has been one of the most progressive democrats in years

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Icy-Cry340@reddit

You're a goddamn leaf, what does it matter what you think of the democrats.

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The_Bear_Jew@reddit

while Trump got the same number of votes.

That's actually not true, he got substantially less votes than he did in 2020.

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Commercial-Fennel219@reddit

It just turns out democracy and freedoms aren't all that important to Americans anymore.

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Engi_Doge@reddit

Trump actually lost about 3 million votes compared to 2020.

But Harris, was down 15 million votes from Biden in 2020.

The issue is not people preferring trump more, its that so many people did not prefer Harris

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BrandoSandoFanTho@reddit

Kamala let us all down.

I have no hope for this country anymore and am actively going to try and leave.

To where? I don't know. But my partner and I are going to take our skills and diplomas elsewhere.

This country can fester in white supremacy and burn for all I care. There's no redemption for this nation.

[-]

ExoticPumpkin237@reddit

Yup!

[-]

cutwordlines@reddit

staid - sedate, respectable, and unadventurous

why would the dem platform matter?

I suspect that what is going to come out is that not enough people voted for kamala. That is to say that many people just stayed home.

I believe that for many, many people on the left were left cold by kamala. Palestine is a great example. If that was your only concern there isn't as much daylight as between Trump & the current system as you would like. So why bother?

I voted for her because Trump is a literal nightmare of a human in that position. But I never liked Harris.

[-]

xavier120@reddit

I believe that for many, many people on the left were left cold by kamala.

Who did she leave out? She left absolutely nobody out. She was going to fight for palestine. I think its people just saying kamala wasnt good enough over and over again that let everybody get away with voting for a fascist. now palestine will be flattened. Those people left themselves out in the cold.

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Apprehensive-Top3756@reddit

Having watched harris on the club shae shae podcast.... all she really had was whinging about trump and enjoying having the hosts nose up her ass.

[-]

PartySr@reddit

why would the dem platform matter

Because they were supposed to reach the people who staid home, not talk to the republicans. They refused to do that.

Instead they sent Clinton to tell to the Arabas and the Muslims how Israel is forced to kill the children in Gaza.

[-]

Juzziee@reddit

Yelling "Trump bad" was a great idea

To be fair, for a lot of us that is all that was needed.

Anyone who looked at Trumps last tenure as president can see how terrible he is at doing his job.

Take Covid for example: Trump downplayed it and called it a hoax, and the result is the highest death toll America has ever had.

Trump killed more Americans than Hitler and Osama Bin Laden combined.

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small44@reddit

Trump also kept insulting Harris and have a terrible platform

[-]

The democrats had every option but chose to push further right, chose to hold onto Biden even as his obvious mental decline worsened, and then had kamala try to run on a campaign almost as right wing as trump. This is the democrats entire fault but libs will just drop trousers and present for the dems because they’d rather fight leftists than demand the dems be better.

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SalokinSekwah@reddit

almost as right wing as trump

In what ways? What policies specifically?

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Give-me-your-taco@reddit

What are you talking about lol. Look at the voting numbers she is down horrendously compared to 2020.

This is literally Democratic fault. Trumps numbers did not rise, he didn’t gain any supporters from 2020

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raphanum@reddit

True but they’re still counting votes. I imagine she might win the popular vote once it’s all done

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OhJShrimpson@reddit

Your take is actually a bad one, the treaty of Versailles was very involved in hitlers uprising and the entirety of the second world war

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in_rainbows8@reddit

Think with your brain

Ok sure. Look at every swing state. She's losing practically every one by 100k+ margins. Trump is getting the same votes he got last time and she is underperforming. It's not the third party's fault either cause they're underperforming previous elections and none of them have gotten more than 30k votes in swing states.

Seems to me the only problem here is she didn't actually get enough Democrats out to vote.

Why? Well looking at her campaign performance it's not surprising. 70+% wanted her to break from Biden and she said she would have done what he did. She embraced Liz Cheney, someone who no one liked but liberals who just like to see a Republican speak out against trump. She pushed right at ever opportunity. Are you surprised the base isnt gonna show up for a Republican lite campaign?

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lovely-cans@reddit

Cozying up with previous Republican war criminals and giving billions to Israel to commit genocide doesn't inspire hope in the party.

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Haystack67@reddit

You mean they didn't win the 200-delegate state inhabited by rich famous actors and singers?

[-]

dorballom09@reddit

It already worked once.

Since Obama's "Change", "Trump is gonna destroy everything" has been the most successful election theme for democrats.

[-]

oh_what_a_surprise@reddit

The system is broken. Every election I best the same drum but nobody will listen.

Universal suffrage is a bad idea.

The corporations suppress wages and price gouge and it's called inflation and the people grow discontent and are easily fooled and elect a demagogue.

It's not just the political system. The economic system. The social system.

The environment is crashing. We are headed full steam towards it.

Voting will never fix these problems. The system controls the voting process. It will never allow itself to be removed from power by voting. Direct action is needed.

Please listen to me this time. We need to engage in General Strikes. Governments and systems can fall when people take direct action.

[-]

Civsi@reddit

In 2016 I was telling Americans that Trump won because of systemic issues that had been decades in the making.

Most got pissed at me.

I 2020 I told Americans that they elected the same kind of candidate under which the aforementioned systemic issues developed and grew. I told them nothing would change, and they would get another Trump, if not Trump himself.

Even more got pissed at me.

Today I'm reiterating those same point. They're still getting mad at me.

Sure, go ahead, do the same fucking thing you've done every single election in your history. Vote for a mainstream candidate that represents the interests of capital and will gladly support brutal American imperialism acorss the whole world. I'm sure this time you'll totally get an entirely different result, and the next 4 years will absolutely undo the past century of gradual decay. I'm sure you'll be able to use the very same system that is built around perpetuating itself and maintaining the status quo to change the status quo. Right...

[-]

oh_what_a_surprise@reddit

There aren't enough of us. The rest of the people are too complacent to challenge their thinking or too frightened that thinking will lead them to the unknown country.

[-]

Dementium84@reddit

And watch as they claim it’s not their fault. That people are just dumb.

[-]

-businessskeleton-@reddit

Well. To be fair you all voted in a con artist, criminal.... Again.

[-]

Give-me-your-taco@reddit

Nah they just didn’t vote. Look at the voter turnout compared to 2020.

Except they were promoting the future of America. People just refused to listen

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silverionmox@reddit

Fun election. Yelling "Trump bad" was a great idea, instead of having a platform where they are promoting the future of America.

Please, as if "I have the concept of an idea" is a platform. His voters don't give a flying fuck about having a platform.

[-]

Civsi@reddit

Absolutely. Democrats will now blame absolutely anyone and everyone instead of acknowledging they lost because of a terrible campaign.

Yet, all that aside, this shouldn't surprise anyone. What changed between 2020 and 2024 to make Trump lose support?

Americans elected a generic establishment candidate in 2020. The same exact kind of candidate that led America for decades. To no surprise, he did absolutely nothing to change Americas general trajectory - the same exact trajectory that led America to have a crazy candidate like Trump in the first place. If Trump didn't win this election, then someone just like him or worse would have won next time, or the time after that.

He's not some one off fluke. He's the manifestation of a systemic rot that has gripped America for decades. Not Kamla, not Biden, nor Obama were candidates that would or did heal this rot. They were more of the same crap that caused it in the first place. When Biden won democrats were so happy without realizing they had fuck all to celebrate in the grand scheme of things.

[-]

TheGuy839@reddit

No, it was "Trump weird". But I do agree. They tried to play Trumps game against him.

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never-in-my-wildest@reddit

Fully unaware that the other side don't care about being weird.

Of course the Chinese can decide their own future, why do you think the Chinese can't? Do you think the Chinese government can implement policies that have absolutely no public support?

[-]

Yuzumi_@reddit

No because you have no choice over who governs you.

What you describe is the illusion of choice because ultimately if he person above you doesn't like you, he wont even give you policies to choose from that will get him out of a position of power.

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bjran8888@reddit

Laughing, did you elect the leader of your current country? Did you elect Von der Leyen? But they're ruling you.

A system is just a system; it is always the people who use it.

I kind of admire western politicians and media, it's funny how their ruling techniques actually make most westerners (like you) believe them.

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Yuzumi_@reddit

>Laughing, did you elect the leader of your current country?

I cast my vote for him yes, i was part of he reason hes up there.

>it's funny how their ruling techniques actually make most westerners (like you) believe them.

That just sounds like prime eastern propaganda to make themselves feel better about not having a voice.

>has been doing the right thing and has jumped from being a poor country at the time of its founding to being the second most powerful country in the world

Well yeah, im sure the one-child policy will really help your country in the future.

Theres no doubt that theres a lot less legislations a law has to be pushed through in order to force measurements, thats a no brainer. But to act like China's success isnt to a very large part built upon a lot of exploitation and massive population explosions is kind of disingenious.

That + nukes.

>said about the EU (tech, economy, military) that isn't declining,

again, you can believe that but your economy is about as much dependant on ours as the other way around.

We (Germany) and you (China) are pure export monsters that need customers to survive and keep the status quo.

>but I'm not sure where this boring condescension of yours comes from?

its just the usual counter when people are being overly nationalistic about their country.

I do the same to Americans that come around knocking "hah we do this so much better you know" while their backyard is full with corpses.

WE all got very bad sides about our country and acting like one is in any way better or worse is just in general a bad habit i see being exceptionally well portrayed by the Chinese of all people.

Its nothing against the Chinese people by themselves btw, i love your guy's History, Food and competive Market. It makes us want to be better (for example with EV's atm).

>I'd like to see what the future holds for Europe.

yes, same. Im sadly not as hopeful that all of this will end up well.

But hey, as you mentioned correctly. I cant alone change the political landscape of an entire continent.

I can merely cast my vote.

[-]

bjran8888@reddit

“Yes, I voted for him, and I'm one of the reasons he was elected.”

So did he fulfill his promise? Is your life better for it?

2, I don't quite understand what's wrong with the one-child policy. I remember the West's attitude when they said China was overpopulated, and now you don't say that?

3, “not based on massive exploitation and a massive population explosion” is kind of funny, so let's see if India qualifies to be the next China.

At least we in China didn't invade and colonize other countries for capital accumulation like you did.

4, “The EU (technological, economic, military) is not in decline”

You can continue with this ostrich attitude, so what is your future direction?

5, “It's just the usual backlash when people get too nationalistic about their own country.”

I'm doing objective real-time analysis, if you think it's nationalism, that's your problem. I'd like you to use data and arguments to refute me, not blanket accusations of “nationalism”,

“I don't have much hope that this will end well.”

Therein lies the problem, why do you expect me to be optimistic about Europe when you yourself are pessimistic about it? It's simply not realistic.

And it looks like Europe doesn't even have a clear idea of its future direction right now, and can't even come to the simple conclusion that “Europe should remain neutral between China and the US in order to maximize its benefits”.

How the dems lost is plain and simple. They have no idea how to connect to those who are actually working and struggling. They hung thier hats on the youth and minorities thinking they would win that but hell even that have limits when you see the Latino turn out for trump was. The dems just didn’t take a hard look at what ppl actually want and need and tried to explain why they were the better choice. I mean they didn’t lose just the president seat they lost the house AND the senate. That’s saying a lot. Not to mention all the governors that went red too. Dems just lost touch about who they actually rep and it’s showing.

[-]

SalokinSekwah@reddit

They have no idea how to connect to those who are actually working and struggling.

They passed huge policies that directly benefitted them, didn't matter

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RuffDemon214@reddit

Which policies?

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SalokinSekwah@reddit

American rescue plan, the IRA, CHIPs and infrastructure bill. Let me guess: no idea what a "child tax credit" is nor where the money from those bills were being spent

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magicalthinker@reddit

I don't understand how the working and struggling people think Trump helps them though? I get that they're disaffected and looking for a change that helps, but why Trump?

He has done some really nasty things as a person, like making fun of disabled people, gross and pervy talk about women, disrespecting soldiers - are the people who voted for him the same? They're fine with that? If yes, it's a horrible world where the majority are bullies.

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cactusboobs@reddit

He got in a garbage truck and then wore a garbage suit while giving a speech. Apparently less than half of us saw that as pandering clown behavior but more than half thought it was relatable and saw him as a working man. His stunts work. Americans are dumb as hell.

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giantzoo@reddit

I just love how when trump wins again, the common redditor response is to call people dumb rather than finally acknowledge the dems have a dogshit platform. they hinge on simply not being somebody else and arrogantly expect voters to turn out in droves for it. well, that didn't happen. harris lost every which way within areas of the country biden had won last election, she had less of a dem votor turnout because she was a terrible candidate that couldn't talk her way out of a paper bag, and everybody that didn't 100% subscribe to every aspect of their existence was hitler lol

dems need some serious introspection, my god you types are insufferable

[-]

SalokinSekwah@reddit

acknowledge the dems have a dogshit platform

In contrast to...?

she was a terrible candidate

Every dem polled at her level, the result would've likely been the same. Inflation ate at wages and immigration was a major concern, that's it

[-]

cactusboobs@reddit

I agree the party needs some introspection on why Harris lost. I think a lot of people are already bringing up great points as to why. But I stand by my comment that his voters are fucking morons. They’ll find out if Trump follows through on any of his campaign promises like a 1000% increase on tariffs or killing their healthcare.

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giantzoo@reddit

jfc, the misplaced arrogance is wild even now lol

I do hope the dems get their shit together though, it's ridiculous

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cactusboobs@reddit

Well it’s not like we’re about to storm the capital and smear shit on the walls. Trumps voters were stupid enough to do that.

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magicalthinker@reddit

I honestly don't know how you can do anything about it if the lies work. They won't listen to reason. I don't understand why you would look up to people like that, but evidently, I'm in the minority too.

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meister2983@reddit

Well yeah. They identify a lot more with him. He doesn't act like some condescending elite and more like a "normal" person.

manhattanabe@reddit

The Dems were smart and Biden won. Yes, running Harris was a mistake. The next candidate will be an old white guy.

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SWatersmith@reddit

Old white guy would have lost as well if he ran the same campaign that Harris did. Search Harris' twitter for the word "billionaires" - she literally only mentions them when talking about Trump's tax cuts.

She hasn't mentioned the word "profit" in a tweet since 2020.

In an economy election.

Where wages have fallen but profits have skyrocketed.

Against a billionaire.

Truly the most revealing campaign in recent memory. The democratic party is beholden to corporate interests, and nothing else. They'd rather lose elections than lose their paychecks. They continue to choose corporations over people.

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SalokinSekwah@reddit

What specific policies should harris have proposed? You had 4 years of major legislation, didn't make a dent

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silverionmox@reddit

Old white guy would have lost as well if he ran the same campaign that Harris did. Search Harris' twitter for the word "billionaires" - she literally only mentions them when talking about Trump's tax cuts.

She hasn't mentioned the word "profit" in a tweet since 2020.

In an economy election.

Where wages have fallen but profits have skyrocketed.

Against a billionaire.

Truly the most revealing campaign in recent memory. The democratic party is beholden to corporate interests, and nothing else. They'd rather lose elections than lose their paychecks. They continue to choose corporations over people.

You're someone who links to the Pravda unironically, why would anyone take you seriously?

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SWatersmith@reddit

This is Reddit - I don't expect people to take me seriously based on my reputation but rather based on the substance of my comment.

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Freenore@reddit

What they probably need is a JFK-esque break with the past because the country seems frustrated with their entire party. Hopefully it is someone in their 40-50s.

[-]

uhfish@reddit

Probably would have had a better showing if Walz had been the candidate. He is a better speaker than Kamala and he's well, an old white man.

[-]

Another_WeebOnReddit@reddit

of course all authotarian dictatorship like Israel, Russia, China, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, UAEand Qatar are celebrating Trump victory while western democracies are look down on Americans.

[-]

empleadoEstatalBot@reddit

World reacts to 2024 presidential election results

LONDON -- World leaders and top officials reacted to the unfolding results of the 2024 presidential election as the contest drew to a conclusion.

With former President Donald Trump significantly ahead of Vice President Kamala Harris in the race for the White House and claiming victory, French President Emmanuel Macron offered his congratulations to Trump in post to X.

"Ready to work together as we have done for four years," Macron said, referring to Trump's first term. "With your convictions and with mine. With respect and ambition. For more peace and prosperity."

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu congratulated both Trump and his wife, Melania. "Congratulations on history's greatest comeback," Netanyahu wrote on X. "Your historic return to the White House offers a new beginning for America and a powerful recommitment to the great alliance between Israel and America."

"This is a huge victory," Netanyahu added.

Israeli President Isaac Herzog, newly-appointed Defense Minister Israel Katz and Foreign Minister Gideon Saar also all offered their congratulations.

Image

Supporters of Republican presidential nominee and former U.S. President Donald Trump react at the site of the rally for Trump, in Palm Beach County Convention Center, in West Palm Beach, Florida, Nov. 6, 2024.

Brian Snyder/Reuters

Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban -- a longtime conservative ally of Trump -- posted to X early Wednesday celebrating what he called "the biggest comeback in U.S. political history." Orban congratulated Trump on "his enormous win," which he described as a "much needed victory for the world."

Hungarian Foreign Minister Peter Szijjarto wrote on Facebook of his hope that "Hungarian-American political cooperation will return to its peak form, because we have similar thoughts about peace, illegal immigration and protection of families."

"And there is a better chance than ever before that there will be peace in Ukraine after almost a thousand days," Szijjarto added.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy lauded what he called Trump's "impressive election victory." He wrote in a post on X that leaders in Kyiv "look forward to an era of a strong United States of America under President Trump's decisive leadership. We rely on continued strong bipartisan support for Ukraine in the United States."

"I appreciate President Trump's commitment to the 'peace through strength' approach in global affairs," Zelenskyy added. "This is exactly the principle that can practically bring just peace in Ukraine closer. I am hopeful that we will put it into action together."

Russian Foreign Ministry spokesperson Maria Zakharova, meanwhile, posted to X with a video of Harris reciting a psalm during the campaign. "Weeping may endure for a night, but joy comes in the morning," Harris said in the video. Zakharova wrote, "Hallelujah, I'll add on my own."

In a later post, Zakharova said, "Those who live by love for their country, and not by hatred for others, win."

Image

The campus of Howard University is pictured after the conclusion of an election night campaign watch party for Democratic presidential nominee Vice President Kamala Harris, Nov. 6, 2024, in Washington.

Susan Walsh/AP

Former Russian President and Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev wrote on Telegram that Trump "has one quality that is useful for us: as a businessman to the core, he mortally dislikes spending money on various hangers-on" and "idiotic allies," suggesting his election may be a curb on American aid to Ukraine.

"The question is how much will Trump be forced to give for the war," Medvedev -- who is now the deputy chairman of Russia's Security Council -- wrote. "He is stubborn, but the system is stronger."

NATO Secretary-General Mark Rutte said Trump's leadership "will again be key to keeping our alliance strong." He added, "I look forward to working with him again to advance peace through strength through NATO."

Ursula von der Leyen, the president of the European Commission, wrote on social media, "I warmly congratulate Donald J. Trump."

"The EU and the U.S. are more than just allies," she added. "We are bound by a true partnership between our people, uniting 800 million citizens. So let's work together on a strong transatlantic agenda that keeps delivering for them."

British Prime Minister Keir Starmer in a statement congratulated Trump on a "historic election victory." He added: "I look forward to working with you in the years ahead. As the closest of allies, we stand shoulder to shoulder in defense of our shared values of freedom, democracy and enterprise.

Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni wrote on X, "Good work Mr. President."

"Italy and the United States are 'sister' nations, linked by an unshakable alliance, common values and a historic friendship," she wrote. "It is a strategic bond, which I am sure we will now strengthen even further."

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan described Trump as a "friend" in his congratulatory post to X.

"I hope that Turkey-U.S. relations will strengthen, that regional and global crises and wars, especially the Palestinian issue and the Russia-Ukraine war, will come to an end," Erdogan said.

Image

Republican presidential nominee, former U.S. President Donald Trump arrives to speak with former first lady Melania Trump during an election night event, Nov. 6, 2024, in West Palm Beach, Florida.

Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images

The leaders of both India and Pakistan were quick to offer their best wishes. Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi wrote: "As you build on the successes of your previous term, I look forward to renewing our collaboration to further strengthen the India-U.S. Comprehensive Global and Strategic Partnership. Together, let’s work for the betterment of our people and to promote global peace, stability and prosperity."

Across the border in Pakistan, Prime Minister Shahbaz Sharif said he is looking "forward to working closely with the incoming administration to further strengthen and broaden the Pakistan-U.S. partnership."

South Korean President Yoon Suk-Yeol also tweeted a congratulatory message. "Under your strong leadership, the future of the [Republic of Korea]-U.S. alliance and America will shine brighter," he said. "Look forward to working closely with you."

This is a developing story. Check back for updates.

ABC News' Tom Soufi Burridge, Bruno Nota, Morgan Winsor, Habibullah Khan and Joohee Cho contributed to this article.

yes the moderate independent is a rightwing extremist.

time to get out of the basement and touch grass.

[-]

ButterPastaXtraSalt@reddit

How could one not be excited? Ill benefit greatly from Trump due to my combined household income, money is top priority, always will be

[-]

coverageanalysisbot@reddit

Hi empleadoEstatalBot,

We've found 3 sources (so far) that are covering this story including:

abc 7 LA (Center): "World leaders react to 2024 presidential election results"
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Of all the sources reporting on this story, 67% are left-leaning, 0% are right-leaning, and 33% are in the center. Read the full coverage analysis and compare how 3+ sources from across the political spectrum are covering this story.

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[-]

chillychili@reddit

Corporate greed suppressing wages and inflating costs has led to a dissatisfied American public. The billionaires have succeeded in ousting Lina Khan.

[-]

KittyFame@reddit

Yup, the billionaire class benefit the most out of this election outcome.

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bigBangParty@reddit

That's the actual loss that happened. Musk and co. will continue to feast, while the people are left behind, and Khan's work was actually helping than the public knows

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Joe_na_hEireann@reddit

Didn't Kamala have more billionaires backing her, allot more?

Meanwhile Trump promises the fucking moon.

You have to tell people what they want to hear and tax credits ain’t it it many.

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Up-to-11@reddit

Trump promised the moon the first time and didn’t deliver - what makes people think he will deliver this time?

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quitesensibleanalogy@reddit

Nothing. A lot of people aren't thinking. They're voting on vibes. A disturbing portion of voters couldn't tell you either candidates plan on how to address any of the top issues (abortion, the economy, immigration ).

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Icy-Cry340@reddit

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Chris9871@reddit

She was really good. I disliked the way she handled the Microsoft/Activision merger by asking really slanted questions, sounding like she was just pro Sony anti Microsoft, but other than that she’s been great

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RadioFreeAmerika@reddit

The SEC is already a paper tiger, but see them get rid of it completely.

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ali_h1@reddit

Nooooo, fuck. I cared more about her than any other political position this election.

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Aggravating-Mine-697@reddit

I'm mostly afraid of a potential dictatorship, but honestly, if you're stupid enough to choose him twice, especially after the way he handled the pandemic and him being convicted, you kinda have it coming

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201-inch-rectum@reddit

we had that with Biden... thankfully the Supreme Court stopped him no less than three times

and one of Harris' campaign promises was to "fix" the Supreme Court so they couldn't stop her from being a dictator

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Bloodgiant65@reddit

You shouldn’t be. That absolutely and obviously will not happen, no matter how much certain crazy people would actually want it to. It’s pure fear mongering.

[-]

I really wish it was safe to visit Iraq. The history and culture would be amazing to experience outside of war and fighting.

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Level-Technician-183@reddit

It is safe though... if you check up on the crime rate by country, iraq has lower crime rate than the US, france, and UK. (Maybe not the best 3 to compare with)

pretty sure Cheney had more to do with wrecking your country than Trump did

thanks! how is it enforced practically? threat of sanctions?

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manhattanabe@reddit

The U.S. just doesn’t transfer the money since the account is in the U.S.

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icatsouki@reddit

can't they make a new one or is that where the "trick" is?

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manhattanabe@reddit

When oil is sold, the U.S. require that the money deposited in the U.S. oil is traded world wide with USD, so the U.S. can control that. Iraq can try and sell oil in another currency, but they would have trouble, and in any case, they prefer getting dollars. They don’t really want to get Rubles or Yuans. The U.S. would sanction them if they tried.

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Level-Technician-183@reddit

It is true. For example, several banks can't function out of iraq because the US halt their access to Dollars. Last year or maybe 2, the US tightened the access to the dollar even harder which caused economic crises and rise in prices of basic goods. Some banks literally stopped dealing with the dollar just to avoid sanctions which may happen to them. The sanctioned banks punished for accusations of supporting iran.

I am not a money expert tbh so there may be details that i don't know, but they do indeed have control over our financial state that is sure.

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InternationalShine85@reddit

Iraq will get shafted either way unfortunately.

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Level-Technician-183@reddit

Indeed. Either a battle field between iran and the US or sanctioned.

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CentJr@reddit

Eh I'm pretty sure that a good chunk of Iraqis seem to adore Trump for whatever reason (might be because of what he did in 2020) but either way, I say let him come. I wonder what Mr Sudani & his handlers will do.

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NicePuddle@reddit

I guess it's time for every country to start getting nukes. We can't expect America to help out anymore if Russia and China starts using nuclear weapons against their neighbors. Trump has made it clear that it's America first and everyone else will have to fend for themselves.

No amount of military can defend against a country that is willing to use nuclear weapons, if they aren't able to retaliate in kind.

BillPsychological850@reddit

You may be right about the pipeline, I will need to do more researc. However trump didn't say he doesn't like sanctions on russia, he said he doesn't like sanctions for too long in general because they lose the dollar. He says he wants to use sanctions strongly and shortly. We have sanctioned russia under bidens leadership for years and what's happening? Russia pumping out weapons faster than before and beggining to take more and more the upper hand in the war. They've taken back the majoirty of Ukrains kursk invasion, and are winning land in the south. So clearly our sanctions aren't working, and clearly puting wasn't afraid of biden because he started this in his presidency.

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lolbeetlejuice@reddit

Sanctions are working exactly as expected. Russia has halted production of its current gen tanks and aircraft and their own economists are saying that their economy will be in big trouble next year. They can only refurbish old Soviet equipment, stockpiles of which are now nearly depleted, and are reliant on Chinese tech that is vastly inferior to western equivalents.

Allowing each individual state to declare war independent of defense remember?

Nah it’d be around Feb of next year when he’s actually in office

[-]

EH1987@reddit

Really?

“I will have that war settled between [Vladimir] Putin and [Volodymyr] Zelensky as president-elect,” Trump said. “Before I take office on Jan. 20, I’ll have that war settled.”

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-makes-bold-promise-about-war-in-ukraine-in-off-the-rails-debate-rant/

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fucuasshole2@reddit

Lmao not surprised at all

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tollbearer@reddit

Strangely enough, he actually follows through on this. He also helps bring peace to the middle east.

It doesn't last for long, and it's not done for the right reasons, but there is a brief period of peace.

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bzngabazooka@reddit

People can say, but the dems didn't do this, and Trump won by doing that instead. The reality is, the people have chosen. This time there is really no excuse. This is what the people want, and now the people are going to reap what they sow. If people REALLY didn't want Trump, they would have voted otherwise.

Later on, when shit hits the fan and they all have the surprised pikachu face on things, they have no one but themselves to blame.

And this is not just an American thing either, it's commonplace around the world. This is why Brexit was born, and why Putin and Xi is in power(and road that led there), as well as Sanchez among many many more psychotic people in power.

Basically the pattern is, people see other countries do stupid shit, say "how could they be so blind!?" and then basically at the same time have their own government shit on them as well from their own incompetence and stupidity. So maybe instead of looking through the window(as people usually do), maybe its the time to look internally on how to prevent this in the future of each country.

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TicketFew9183@reddit

Well, sucks for a lot of people but the NATO fanboys freaking out is almost worth it.

Millions of Ukrainian men will have a chance to not be forced into the meat grinder at least.

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Maardten@reddit

How original, an American treating European countries like they are US vassals while insisting they are anti-imperialism.

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TicketFew9183@reddit

Imagine thinking European countries aren’t American puppets.

They are not incorrect in their assessment. A Trump 2.0 will only embolden that message when he restarts his China Trade War and both countries try to fuck with EU.

Let's see if EU starts trading with Russia again once Ukraine loses due to losing support in the US.

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TicketFew9183@reddit

Sounds good. Countries having more autonomy and trading with who they actually want.

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Babbler666@reddit

Wrong person.

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Babbler666@reddit

They are not incorrect in their assessment. A Trump 2.0 will only embolden that message when he restarts his China Trade War and both countries try to fuck with EU.

Let's see if EU starts trading with Russia again once Ukraine loses due to losing support in the US.

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Maardten@reddit

I disagree. Their assesment is that European countries can/should only be US vassals or Russian vassals. That is really some 19th century way of thinking and it is wrong. Any conclusions derived from that fundament are also wrong.

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Babbler666@reddit

I know it's archaic, but if politicians can easily be bought, external forces can easily influence your country's foreign policy, and people can easily be swayed via social media.

You become a vassal in all but name. The situation was difficult to navigate before, but now it's just due to sheer incompetency.

Just look at the far-right surge across Europe when you and everyone on the planet know what happens when they are elected in Europe. The AfD is getting really popular in Germany, and it's kinda scary.

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silverionmox@reddit

Well, sucks for a lot of people but the NATO fanboys freaking out is almost worth it.

Millions of Ukrainian men will have a chance to not be forced into the meat grinder at least.

The meat grinder is Russian, did you forget?

Millions of Ukrainian men and women will be forced to live under Russian oppression now.

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Bastard_of_Brunswick@reddit

Slavery still happens in rural parts of Russia; and deportations from Ukraine to Siberia and massive population replacement in Ukraine by Russians may very well be a part of Ukraine's terms of surrender once NATO ends support for Ukraine. It's not like that hasn't happened before. I've met people who were sent from Soviet controlled territories in Europe over to to Siberia as forced labour convicts after WWII ended in Europe.

Different meat grinder.

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crusadertank@reddit

Slavery still happens in many countries. In the US it's even still legal

deportations from Ukraine to Siberia

What year did you write your comment in? 1930?

may very well

Means. You think it's true but have no proof of it. You just don't like Russia and so clearly they're up to something bad

I've met people who were sent from Soviet controlled territories in Europe over to to Siberia as forced labour convicts after WWII ended in Europe.

We're they from Lviv by any chance? There were a lot of people from there who got sent to prisons after the end of WW2. And with good reason.

Your comment can be completely disregarded from the fact that there are many regions of Ukraine under Russian control and we can see that this simply isn't happening

On the other hand some regions of western Russia have many Ukrainians who fled Ukraine after Maidan in 2014.

Over 10 million Ukrainians chose to be in Russia. And many more are still going

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myguyxanny@reddit

Most obvious Russia bot award goes to...

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crusadertank@reddit

"Everyone who tells me information that i dont like must be a Russian bot"

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myguyxanny@reddit

Mate your whole profile is about the Russia/ ukraine war posting pro Russia stuff. Sit down mate you're no brit

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crusadertank@reddit

Lmao whatever you say. I have no love for Russia I just don't like the Ukrainian government.

I live in the UK and my family is Ukrainian, but believe whatever you want to believe I guess

Everyone who tells you something you don't like has to be a bot. Go back to living in your bubble if you want to and don't face the real world

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EtheaaryXD@reddit

Millions of Ukrainian men will have a chance to not be forced into the meat grinder at least.

I think removing all backing by a strong military power will force soldiers to be "forced into the meat grinder".

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TicketFew9183@reddit

Who can forget when millions of men fought for Crimea and died in 2014.

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PALpherion@reddit

You think it's better to have civil conflicts and Russian-funded separatists in province after province of Eastern Europe?

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TicketFew9183@reddit

That’s why it’s better to stop NATO from meddling everywhere.

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Virtual-Pension-991@reddit

Meat grinder for Ukraine at least, with no backing and stable source of supply, Russian armor and jets will eventually get through.

Misogyny and racism also contributed.

Pro Palestine figures on social media seem gleeful...

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the-apple-and-omega@reddit

Appealing to the moderates and middle voters are the way forward for the Democrats.

???? That was the Harris campaign. It failed very badly.

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I mean, that has to be the most self-destructive ad ever created. Insane that someone thought these would be helpful to the cause.

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Let's just put it down to "I entirely disagree with your assessment". In fact, after you tried to claim that elections are won in the middle on the eve of the most far right election I should have tapped out trying to use sense.

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RetroFreud1@reddit

Cool.

Far right is often abused term.

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StyleOtherwise8758@reddit

It's always the middle that decides

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AlberGaming@reddit

"Pro Palestine figures on social media seem gleeful..." That's just too funny lmao. Trump is going to let Israel turn the entirety of Palestine into flat concrete space as long as they let him build a building with his name on it there.

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Zipz@reddit

It’s interesting how again a huge amount of national polls were embarrassingly wrong again.

Even more embarrassing Elon musk Twitter polls and Vegas betting lines were much more accurate.

Its not surprising but at the same time it’s pretty mind blowing

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defenestrate_urself@reddit

It’s interesting how again a huge amount of national polls were embarrassingly wrong again.

Conscious-Account350@reddit

UNBURDENED BY WHAT HAS BEEN UNBURDENED BY WHAT HAS BEEN UNBURDENED BY WHAT HAS BEEN UNBURDENED BY WHAT HAS BEEN UNBURDENED BY WHAT HAS BEEN UNBURDENED BY WHAT HAS BEEN UNBURDENED BY WHAT HAS BEEN UNBURDENED BY WHAT HAS BEEN UNBURDENED BY WHAT HAS BEEN UNBURDENED BY WHAT HAS BEEN UNBURDENED BY WHAT HAS BEEN UNBURDENED BY WHAT HAS BEEN UNBURDENED BY WHAT HAS BEEN UNBURDENED BY WHAT HAS BEEN UNBURDENED BY WHAT HAS BEEN UNBURDENED BY WHAT HAS BEEN

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PunfullyObvious@reddit

The monied|powerful backers of the Democratic Party would rather have Trump as president than a Progressive or truly liberal president ..... that is a MAJOR issue ... Not the only one, but a major one.

That, along with to much resistance on the part of the electorate in supporting a black|brown|woman did in her candidacy.

jmsy1@reddit

It's quite bad for the world. The American far right's victory emboldens movements around the world that strip personal rights, privatizes public services, and rewards corruption. The environment will suffer, the wealth gaps will increase, and hate-based crimes will feel justified and defended.

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sheepyowl@reddit

America voted to abandon the future and my country will follow.

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ParagonRenegade@reddit

Nations elect the kind of leaders they deserve, as they say.

Critical support for comrade Trump in his struggle against American imperialism. Nobody can comprehensively discredit and damage the USA and the house of cards it props up like he can.

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SB3forever0@reddit

Doesn't matter much to me from the Middle East. Both parties sends missiles into the region.