Which major US city is the equivalent of Birmingham?
Posted by IcemanGeneMalenko@reddit | AskAnAmerican | View on Reddit | 271 comments
In short, Birmingham is the 2nd biggest city in the UK, has been for ages- a monster city with great historic standing (industrial revolution). But it's completely overlooked over here in terms of day trips. tourism, city breaks and nights out. Also ignored and never on the radar or itinerary of foreign tourists- unlike Liverpool, York, Manchester, Edinburgh etc. Which major US city is the equivalent and is forgotten despite its prominent size/standing, and why?
youngpathfinder@reddit
Maybe Houston. 4th largest city in the US, but I’d assume the top 3 cities (NY, LA, Chicago) dwarf it in tourism. Even here in Texas I don’t hear people planning vacations to Houston unless they have family there.
Current_Poster@reddit
What would, if you were selling me on it, be the draw?
Maquina_en_Londres@reddit
If I’m going to sell you on it, it has one of the highest density of “dishes you can’t eat anywhere else on earth” of any place I’ve been.
Things like Viet-Cajun Crawfish, masala buttermilk fried chicken, Thai curry smoked boudin, dino rib pho, and fajita biryani aren’t going to be possible to find other places.
Phil_ODendron@reddit
Masala fried chicken and dino rib pho are both things you can get pretty easily in NJ. Houston probably has a stronger scene for this kind of fusion food, but it's definitely not unheard of here.
Viet-Cajun though, that's something I would love to be able to find here. It's hard to even get regular Cajun here.
ArguteTrickster@reddit
You can get Viet-cajun crawfish two blocks away from me in SF. And you can get it in New Orleans, which has a big Vietnamese population.
Souledex@reddit
And it came from Houston. What’s your point?
ArguteTrickster@reddit
I thought it was pretty obvious: that person said you can only get Viet-Cajun crawfish in Houston, but you can get that in other places.
Also confused why you think Viet-Cajun cusine in New Orleans originated in Houston.
Souledex@reddit
https://www.foodandwine.com/how-the-vietnamese-diaspora-created-a-whole-new-cuisine-7113427#:~:text=Vietnamese%20immigrants%20created%20Viet%2DCajun,part%20of%20Texas%20culinary%20history.
ArguteTrickster@reddit
This article says it was Louisiana first.
https://www.southernliving.com/food/seafood/crawfish/viet-cajun-crawfish
It sounds like it was in both places at the same time, which makes sense to me. Anywhere the Vietnamese wound up on the Gulf Coast that had a cajun presence, the fusion cropped up.
And again: You can get Viet-Cajun in places other than Houston. It sounds like it's awesome in Houston, and that's really cool. But there's no need to go the step further and claim you can only get it there, or that New Orleans Viet-Cajun is an export from Houston, rather than from Lafayette.
SterileCarrot@reddit
Great food scene, warm winter weather, Texas culture (if that's your thing), lots of diversity. That's about it, having lived there for a few years.
Head_Razzmatazz7174@reddit
And storm season. Houston floods a lot during hurricane season, even if the storms don't come close to the coast.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit
How much of that is the weather being just that brutal, and how much is infrastructure that leaves a few things to be desired?
tu-vens-tu-vens@reddit
Depends a little bit on the neighborhood. There are some neighborhoods where you get shade from live oaks and that helps. Then there are other places that are just big parking lots.
MyFace_UrAss_LetsGo@reddit
If you’re not good with sweltering high humidity heat, pretty much avoid the entire southeast for much of the year lol.
SaintsFanPA@reddit
The food scene is no joke. Incredible diversity and quality. It is also the poster child for sprawl. I believe it has the most strip clubs of any city in the US.
alphawolf29@reddit
ive heard food in Houston is outlandishly expensive though?
foxy-coxy@reddit
You've been lied to. It's expensive of the least expensive major cities in he US.
puddyspud@reddit
What?
big_sugi@reddit
It’s one of the least expensive major cities in the US.
qwerty_ca@reddit
What?
big_sugi@reddit
Who?
Low-Cat4360@reddit
Its the home of Viet-Cajun fusion. That alone is an incredible food option
PacSan300@reddit
Crawfish pho is definitely one of the exemplars of American fusion dishes.
Keellas_Ahullford@reddit
Can confirm, I live like half a mile from two lol
DrWhoisOverRated@reddit
Next time start with that.
chinchaaa@reddit
There isn’t any charm. It’s a dump. I hate Houston.
Vowel_Movements_4U@reddit
Yeah but you live in Austin.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit
I went there in 2006 to check it out. It was during peak Austin hype. I regretted it.
chinchaaa@reddit
Not by choice
Taldoable@reddit
Actually the Houston area has NASA if you're into that! The larger Houston area also has Galveston, Kemah boardwalk, and a whole slew of excellent museums.
And I say this as someone that dreads going to Houston.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit
I heard all that in Sheldon's voice.
topbuttsteak@reddit
I visited there in February and it was 75 degrees....so I guess that.
On the flip side, the hotel I was staying at was robbed while I was there and the nearest shop of any kind was a gas station a half mile away through an industrial park.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit
I was in Phoenix one February. I was sending pics back home (to northern Italy, within sight of the Alps) of my bare feet on the sidewalk.
That was the year of the Polar Vortex, and I ran into some folks who had just flown in from Chicago. They were extremely glad to be in Phoenix.
Vowel_Movements_4U@reddit
Great place to live, not a great place to visit if you don’t know people.
But restaurant scene is incredible. One of the best in the country. Lots to do if you live there… all the sports except hockey, year round golf, Great museums, warm winter (mostly), lots of shopping, concerts and comedy all the time.
And then there’s the fact that the cost of living is low and the salaries are high (generally).
chaandra@reddit
I don’t hate Houston but man the heat and the driving would be dealbreakers for me
jzoller0@reddit
I’ve managed to put together a mostly walkable life here, but the heat 8 months out of the year makes that a bit less desirable
ColossusOfChoads@reddit
8 months!?
When I lived in Las Vegas it started sucking in May and June, July and August and into September were like Satan's air fryer, first half of October was okay, and then you might get some cold winds up through January, but the rest of the year was otherwise perfect.
OK_Ingenue@reddit
The heat is horrendous. I grew up there.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit
Some people would say that about L.A. I would say it's somewhere in the middle: plenty to do and see, but you have to do more homework than you would for NYC or Chicago. (And rent a car, FFS!)
Playful_Dust9381@reddit
Great place to come if you have cancer? Come for the cancer hospital, stay for the food. And the world class symphony, ballet, theatre, museums, festivals, etc. But be prepared to sweat.
TheAngryGoat73@reddit
I have this problem when people visit. I used to date a girl in Detroit and she found so many more cool things to do than I could here.
Captain-Memphis@reddit
Great museums, especially compared to the rest of the state.
IcemanGeneMalenko@reddit (OP)
A thing Birmingham * should * have in it's favour in comparison is it's geographically super-central, the biggest motorway in the country runs right through it, it's own international airport, 2nd busiest train station in the UK behind London ones....and still a massive afterthought
erst77@reddit
Geography and transportation options aside.... what's the draw? Why would a tourist want to go there? Is it a hidden gem or is it overlooked because there are much more interesting things elsewhere?
HeartCrafty2961@reddit
My experience of Birmingham, having lived and worked there for 9 months is that it has 10 times the population of my hometown, but doesn't really have much more of a vibe. It's not like London where you feel like you took a train into a different country without border control. OK, there's the jewelry quarter and the Gay Village and the endless canals, but not a lot more. There's not even really much of a football scene unless Villa are playing Birmingham City, when it gets too much. The only time I saw it get interesting was when there was an England cricket game at Edgbaston and lots of people dressed in strange gear descended on the city. On the other hand, I spent a year in Liverpool, and that place was pretty cool, with the architecture and the underground clubs at the weekend. I haven't been to Manchester, but have heard similar. But, yeah, I've also been to Houston in summer. It's as humid as hell with a horrible freeway system, and the best part of it is the beach at Galveston, an hour's drive south.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit
How much do they lean into the Beatles thing? Or is the average local all like "fuck off!" if you mention it?
I once heard someone compare it to Seattle. "Cool music scene, not much else."
HeartCrafty2961@reddit
IMO they're quietly proud in Liverpool, but are much more into the city football/soccer scene. Like they will talk for hours about Salah rather than Lennon. Your Manchester/Seattle comment sounds spot on.
IcemanGeneMalenko@reddit (OP)
All the amenities of major cities, 2 football teams in the city proper (5 league teams in the immediate metro), the home of heavy metal (Black Sabbath, Judas Priest), many museums with great variety not just peaky blinders stuff and "living museums" of it's industrial revolution past. The canals, Edgbaston if you like Cricket, Digbeth which has developed a super artsy, craft brewery place. Jewellery quarter, the national exhibition centre. There's just as much stuff to do as most major cities (outside the obvious like London). It's not like it's a post apocalyptic city centre with nothing to see
Mystery_Donut@reddit
I have coworkers there. My understanding is that there’s tons of crime. Even twice as much as where I live (Charlotte, North Carolina). It doesn’t really seem worth it compared to some other UK options.
Efficient-Piglet88@reddit
Yeah Op is really overlooking how rough Birmingham is
Dramatic-Blueberry98@reddit
Yep, my sister (we’re Americans) lives there, but she’s trying to move away because of the crime and her British ex-husband is from there (and in fact trying to force her and their son to stay near there).
She’s mentioned that a lot of families she’s talked have been steadily moving away because of the crime and how unfit for families the city is in other ways.
OK_Ingenue@reddit
As an American, the first thing that comes to mind when thinking of Birmingham is that it is a very industrial town with factories everywhere. A bit depressing perhaps. But I don’t really know where those ideas come from or whether they are even true. I haven’t been there.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit
The first thing I think is "fuck yeah! That's where heavy metal came from!"
The second thing I think is "uhhhhh... there must be reasons why it did." You know, madness, suicide, the Devil, etc.
cthulhu_on_my_lawn@reddit
You could say a lot the same about Detroit, it has 4 major league teams, a top rate art museum, Eastern Market and it's the birthplace of two entire genres of music
erst77@reddit
I dunno, a lot of that also describes American cities like St. Louis, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Atlanta, Denver, Houston, San Jose, Indianapolis... Tons of cities can say they have lots of things to do and lots of history, but that doesn't make them tourist destinations.
Bundt-lover@reddit
Can't be too hidden, if it's the second biggest city.
Bubbly_Safety8791@reddit
So the US equivalent there might be Atlanta. Not *as* central, but close to central for the non-west-coast population (much as Birmingham is 'central' relative to the English population, not the UK as a whole). Atlanta's a transport hub, and industrially significant as the home to Coca Cola and CNN, but not exactly a tourist draw.
Another parallel: Atlanta has a significant cultural influence in hip hop and R&B that is really important but often overlooked in favor of NYC and LA; similar to how Birmingham's contribution to British rock and pop music is incredibly significant but often overshadowed by Manchester, Liverpool and London.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit
Did they give us anything other than the Beatles?
Granted, the Beatles alone is a massive deal. Whenever they're called the GOAT there's not one peep of protest from me.
OK_Ingenue@reddit
I always thought of Atlanta as somewhat of a tourist destination. It’s got so much African American history and culture, is a good music and foodie town, and more. I’d love to go as a tourist!
rolyfuckingdiscopoly@reddit
Ok I don’t know anything about this town, and you listed other stuff below, but I loved this comment.
When asked why a tourist would want to go there, you basically explained that it’s a great place to go if you want to leave and get to somewhere else 😂
Not throwing shade; I live in the middle of nowhere. But that was funny.
Far_Silver@reddit
Well for central major cities, there's Chicago.
Texlectric@reddit
Houston doesn't have any major TV shows or movies set here. Compare that to Miami, New Orleans, San Francisco. Even less than Dallas, Austin, San Antonio, Galveston, or El Paso. For tourism, too.
Darmok47@reddit
For All Mankind is all about alt-history NASA, and a lot of the show is set in Houston because of the Johnson Space Center.
QuarterMaestro@reddit
Not "major" by American standards but the film Paris, Texas is partially set in/shot in Houston. I remember the (German) director Wim Wenders said Houston was "a great city" in his commentary track.
OK_Ingenue@reddit
But Houston has Beyoncé
Playful_Dust9381@reddit
Fun fact: the 80s TV show Dallas was originally set in and named “Houston,” as Houston was where all the oil companies were located. At that point, Dallas was primarily known for banking. However, screen tests showed that people generally didn’t connect with “Houston,” so they tried again with “Dallas” and it stuck.
PerfumedPornoVampire@reddit
The only pop culture media I can think of that is set in Houston is Office Space. Maybe technically all Mike Judge stuff? But that’s it.
Texlectric@reddit
I thought that was Austin. Did they mention Houston in it?
tooslow_moveover@reddit
I think the only thing Houston in Office Space is the Geto Boys
PerfumedPornoVampire@reddit
I haven’t seen it in years but I swear they mention Houston a few times. Though apparently it was filmed in Austin and Dallas.
nick22tamu@reddit
That was Austin. The two Houston things are Reality Bites and Rushmore.
tooslow_moveover@reddit
Urban Cowboy, too. Set in the Houston metro area, at least
MyFace_UrAss_LetsGo@reddit
All I’ve heard about Houston is how bad traffic is.
OK_Ingenue@reddit
Oh there is much more that’s bad about Houston.
Vowel_Movements_4U@reddit
Yeah, it’s not great. But there are other really good things about it.
BeigePhilip@reddit
My wife is from Houston. There is literally no reason to visit Houston unless you like hot flat beige everything.
Playful_Dust9381@reddit
I wouldn’t say beige. It’s more of a concrete gray. Like the color of all the concrete we have here.
So. Much. Concrete. 26 lanes of it on I-10!
GingerMarquis@reddit
Yeah if someone said they’re going to Houston for vacation I’d ask for their keys
Keellas_Ahullford@reddit
I agree, a major port city, huge presence of industry (especially oil/natural gas), headquarters of NASA, and about fuck all else for tourism lol
SevenSixOne@reddit
Every time I visit the side of my family that lives in Houston, I cannot believe anyone would be there on purpose
Darmok-on-the-Ocean@reddit
Sometimes I drive through Houston on the way to Galveston, lol.
mariotx10@reddit
Houston is the 5th largest metro, not 4th.
youngpathfinder@reddit
Blame Wikipedia which lists it as 4th largest by population. I didn’t dig that deep.
Bear_necessities96@reddit
All those 3 has something that Houston lacks, identity and walk ability
glittervector@reddit
My first thought was Houston
BM7-D7-GM7-Bb7-EbM7@reddit
It also matches up with Birmingham in being a nondescript shit hole. (I live in Houston and have actually visited Birmingham) I like Houston and I liked Birmingham, but let's be real here, there's better places to go.
hypo-osmotic@reddit
Come to think of it, even when I am specifically thinking about Texas, I usually think of Austin or Dallas before Houston
BookishRoughneck@reddit
Or they want to go to Dromgoole’s for a new fountain pen!!!!
DeathByPianos@reddit
Is Houston the 4th biggest? I thought the DFW metro is larger.
Partytime79@reddit
Birmingham
benjpolacek@reddit
I feel like a lot of the industrial cities of the UK fit with the rust belt. Liverpool to me seems a lot like a Baltimore if only due to them both being on the ocean. Not as sure about Manchester or Birmingham but maybe a bit like Chicago or Pittsburgh or Cleveland or Milwaukee.
It doesn't help too that the UK so dominates London that the other cities are pretty small time. Sure, New York is huge and LA is only half its size as the second city, but there are just so many, and America is so big that I'd argue LA, and Chicago can kind of be regional capitols, and even Houston and Atlanta are arguably moving up there as well, but in the UK I don't really feel like their other major cities are major world cities in the way LA or Chicago is along with New York. Not that Birmingham or Manchester are these cultural wastelands, but they just seem more in league with the rustbelt cities outside of Chicago, though I think Chicago only stays that way due to inertia as Illinois is a state that is hurting a lot. Its so much bigger than many midwestern cities that I can't think of who'd take over as a midwest cultural capitol.
flameo_hotmon@reddit
Philadelphia, maybe. My initial thought was Chicago since it was 2nd largest for a century and really only lost that title because LA has so much land, but Chicago still does really well with tourism, especially within the midwest. I’d argue Philly is a better match because it’s overshadowed by NY and DC as a tourist destination.
Current_Poster@reddit
Philadelphia?
I mean, I've never heard a foreign tourist say they couldn't wait to go to Philly.
eyetracker@reddit
I think that one is Manchester
IcemanGeneMalenko@reddit (OP)
Manchester is something of an anomaly as most international tourists automatically think of Manchester United long before the city itself when it comes to what springs to mind. Maybe more than any other city in the world bar Madrid given the mammoth size of the football club (especially if you go to Asia/Africa)
eyetracker@reddit
I don't know of the current ManU stereotypes but I feel like in the past they fill a similar (belligerent?) niche with Philly fans.
Plus Shaun Ryder seems like he could be a Philly guy
IcemanGeneMalenko@reddit (OP)
Maybe in the 70s with the red army but that's digging into hooligan past. The UK has forever had a hooligan problem with teams up and down the country so no fanbase was "niche" in that case, but that's a completely different topic. For a generation every hated Man Utd and their fans because the won the league nearly every year and their fans certainly let everyone know about it
ColossusOfChoads@reddit
Is Millwall still really bad? I still hear things about them. Then there's that whole Rangers vs. Celtic thing.
IcemanGeneMalenko@reddit (OP)
Hooliganism is different to its heyday, too many police, CCTV cameras and helicopters about. Instant fines and lifetime bans. A fan got a 3 year ban for throwing a lighter(!) at another fan. In that sense all clubs are probably equally “equal” in they’re all as involved as each other. Obviously more for big rivalry games.
Most issues are just groups (big or small) fighting outside the ground, in pubs or at train stations. It’s never going to go away and fans will always, always need to kept apart for their safety. Celtic and Rangers is more heated but not really any more or less “rough”.
Some fixtures are dictated simply because of trouble (certain games need to early KOs, shutting motorways for club specific travel for away fans). I support Blackburn and as a lot of rivals clubs are very close to each other so the fixtures are dictated by if and when they won’t cross paths as Preston train station and have X available steward/police within the jurisdiction (Lancashire as an example, I’m sure it happens elsewhere too). I find it all objectively quite interesting even if I didn’t watch football
ColossusOfChoads@reddit
AC Milan beat them last night. My kid is happy.
ElectroGhandi@reddit
I've heard of Liverpool being the Baltimore of England, so Manchester being Philly makes sense, at least from a proximity and relative size point of view.
Dai-The-Flu-@reddit
Then what would be the Boston of England?
C5Jones@reddit
Glasgow.
eyetracker@reddit
It won't last. Brothers and sisters are natural enemies! Like Yinzers and Philadelphians! Or Washingtonians and Philadelphians! Or New Yorkers and Philadelphians! Or Philadelphians and other Philadelphians ! Damn Philadelphians! They ruined Philadelphia!
49Flyer@reddit
I used to live there and saw plenty of foreign tourists. There's quite a bit of history in Philly.
akacesfan@reddit
Also helps that it’s only a 1.5 hour train ride from NYC so it’s easy for tourists to visit for a day or two.
iamcarlgauss@reddit
Seconded. I know more than one foreigner who has visited Philadelphia solely because of Rocky.
Wut23456@reddit
Really? There's a lot of history in Philly and some of the quaintest old cobblestone colonial streets in the country
Current_Poster@reddit
Just saying. And I spent years working in hospitality, so I've been around travelers.
berraberragood@reddit
I believe that you’re referring to Detroit.
smallddavid@reddit
If I’m not mistaking Detroit started renovating their downtown so I think it’s better than Birmingham
fleetiebelle@reddit
Throw in Cleveland, Baltimore, Milwaukee, and Pittsburgh, too.
IcemanGeneMalenko@reddit (OP)
I can see where you're coming from but it's been the 2nd largest since the 1800s, and sustained 2nd largest population so it's not had a big drop in population and never declined per say, compared to the above and especially Detroit.
Existing_Charity_818@reddit
I mean you’re not going to find a perfect answer. There just isn’t a city in the US that meets all your criteria. Detroit and Houston are probably your closest answers
ColossusOfChoads@reddit
Philly's got way more tourist draw than those other two.
Existing_Charity_818@reddit
That’s fair. It’s also been a significant city for a while while the other two are much newer, so in my head it evens out. Again, no perfect match
Wut23456@reddit
Pittsburgh and Baltimore are worth visiting though
Eric848448@reddit
And St Louis. Maybe Kansas City too.
creep_nu@reddit
Yup, bmore and pitt were my thoughts
berraberragood@reddit
All are good, but Detroit’s the largest.
badpuffthaikitty@reddit
Birmingham UK was also an automobile manufacturing city.
DifficultLength2060@reddit
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
MetroBS@reddit
Philly or Chicago
Commotion@reddit
Maybe Houston? Huge city that seems to punch below its weight in terms of tourism, cultural relevance, etc.
earthhominid@reddit
Houston has a lot of cultural cache within hip hop. Which is a pretty big cultural force in the states these days. But it's definitely not in the mainstream awareness
Maquina_en_Londres@reddit
Hip hop and food mostly.
It has more cache in black America and Mexican America but 0 cache with white america.
But mostly people in Houston don’t exactly like white Americans either, so it works out fine.
Dai-The-Flu-@reddit
People don’t realize it but Houston is one of the most diverse cities in the country
ColossusOfChoads@reddit
I once heard a reporter say "you may live across the street from an Indian-American doctor, but you'll probably never meet him."
ColossusOfChoads@reddit
I think that's more regional. Over in California it's all about California. As it is for all the other Californians, I suppose.
PseudonymIncognito@reddit
I think you meant "cachet."
Maquina_en_Londres@reddit
I think you're right, but I'm gonna keep the typo.
93LEAFS@reddit
As a big hip hop head, I feel the only city that really gets a boost for that in regards to tourism is NYC. Houston has iconic acts like the Geto Boyz/Scarface, UGK (although that's Port Arthur) and newer acts that are popular (Travis Scott). But, I'm not sure it's even in the top 5 American cities when it comes to Hip Hop. NYC and LA are historically at the top, then you can sort through Chicago, Houston, Atlanta, Bay Area, Philly, etc.
earthhominid@reddit
Yeah I think that's the general perception. Personally I'd probably put Houston as #3 just because of the number of acts traditionally identified with other major cities that have connections/roots back to Houston. The whole Bay Area sound is basically a modified Houston aesthetic and tons of LA acts have Houston connections that influenced them heavily.
But yeah, in terms of tourism and wider perception NYC is probably the only place seeing any real bump
AccomplishedEbb4383@reddit
Also like Houston, Birmingham lacks a good football team.
blbd@reddit
And Dallas doesn't have a logo, it has a rating.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit
Bwahahahahaha!!!! Can't believe I haven't heard that before.
natigin@reddit
Villa rates recently, no?
IcemanGeneMalenko@reddit (OP)
Ask Birmingham city fans if they consider Aston Villa an actual Birmingham club despite the ground being only 2.2 miles from the city centre
Dax_Maclaine@reddit
Texans are much better than dem “all in” boys this year though
TheBimpo@reddit
By international tourists? Chicago.
International tourists tend to stick to the coasts. Chicago has long been our third largest city, has an industrial base, and is an amazing city. It’s just pretty far from anywhere else that international tourists tend to travel to.
Historical-Tie8800@reddit
I travel to Chicago for work and to see friends on occasion and find myself selling Americans on the idea of visiting Chicago for a pleasure trip. In the summertime I think it’s the best city in the country to hang out in for a weekend. World class food scene of every variety and price point (hot dogs or Michelin starred restaurants and everything in between). Art, music, theatre, culture. Amazing clean for a city of its size. Beautiful architecture. Oh and there’s the entire lake and river if you want to get out on the water or take the famous architecture boat tour.
To top it all off, it’s way more affordable as a tourist than a comparably large city. You can stay in a 4 or 5 star hotel for ~$200 a night if you know where to look.
spect0rjohn@reddit
I’ve been to Chicago a few times and it was fun. My main issue is that Chicago is basically just as expensive as NYC and, to me at least, NYC is quite a bit more fun. I don’t dislike Chicago and I don’t really like NYC, but all things equal if I had to pick one, I’d pick NYC.
ColossusOfChoads@reddit
For most international tourists, the USA is a once in a lifetime trip. They'd definitely want to go with NYC.
edkarls@reddit
We live in Michigan, and on the few occasions we’ve had friends from Europe stay with us, they’ve wanted to go over and see Chicago for a few days. They come back to us gushing about the city—they had no idea how amazing it was. We’ve also hosted 5 au pairs in our home, and 4 of the 5 prefer Chicago to New York City.
blbd@reddit
I am a member of that club.
I visit both often for work and I find the walkability and transit simplicity of Chicago is often ahead of NYC and the pricing of things is better and the people are really friendly as far as big cities go.
If Chicago did not get as much nasty lake effect winter windstorms I think it could easily be 3 times its current size / popularity.
PacSan300@reddit
Bonus point for Chicago: it doesn’t reek of humid garbage and urine on a summer day.
carlse20@reddit
Also before Chicago was the third largest city it was the second largest city for a century, LA only overtook it in the 80s
ColossusOfChoads@reddit
I know it as the place where Black Sabbath and a bunch of other bands came from. Something about Birmingham produced those guys and everything that came after.
OK_Ingenue@reddit
Def Houston. No reason to ever go there.
OhThrowed@reddit
We have our own Birmingham, in Alabama. So it's the technical answer.
Upstairs-Storm1006@reddit
OP said a lot of responses for Detroit. I live in suburban Detroit in a town called Birmingham.
Alexdagreallygrate@reddit
I was in Birmingham, MI yesterday and last visited there 15 years ago.
Very fancy traffic.
hwarif@reddit
Same I was like wait what
s-r-g-l@reddit
Went to a concert in Birmingham AL for a band from the UK. The first thing they said when they got on stage was “you’re pronouncing the name of your city wrong”
JerichoMassey@reddit
Hammer Down and Roll Tide!
RealBenWoodruff@reddit
Folks at r/Brum already know about r/Birmingham
_RomeoEchoDelta_@reddit
Our lassies are shelved over at r/Birmingham
hypo-osmotic@reddit
Hits a couple of the other qualifications, too, in that it has a historical/cultural significance to the U.S. wrt the civil rights movement but isn't a non-regional tourist destination
butt_honcho@reddit
The best kind of answer!
MoreCowsThanPeople@reddit
They also both have really high crime rates for their respective countries.
Kestrel_Iolani@reddit
There's a Birmingham, Ohio too but he definitely doesn't want to go there.
windchanter1992@reddit
you brits dont get it every US state gets one of these
IcemanGeneMalenko@reddit (OP)
Every and all 50 states have the 2nd largest city in the country that has sustained it's population since the 1800s but is always overlooked for often far small cities? interesting
windchanter1992@reddit
if you replace the word country with state yes considering some of our states are bigger than your entire country
Wootster10@reddit
Bigger how? In land mass sure. But in terms of population not a single US state has more.
The closest is California with around 40 million, which is still less than just England on its own.
thattogoguy@reddit
Birmingham...
IcemanGeneMalenko@reddit (OP)
Major city*
dangleicious13@reddit
How is Birmingham not a major city?
IcemanGeneMalenko@reddit (OP)
In comparison to the country I mean. One is the 2nd biggest in the country (by a healthy margin, over double the 3rd place in ONS), one is 29th according to wiki.
Wootster10@reddit
By what measure is Birmingham more than double 3rd place?
If you're talking about the actual city itself then Birmingham has around 1.1 million with Leeds having 0.8 million.
If you're talking city regions then West Midlands is 2.8 million with Greater Manchester being 2.7 million
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/economicoutputandproductivity/output/articles/cityregionsarticle/2015-07-24#population-household-incomes-and-housing
dangleicious13@reddit
England is the size of Alabama and Birmingham is the largest city in the state.
IcemanGeneMalenko@reddit (OP)
The UK also has nearly 14x the population of Alabama.
iamcarlgauss@reddit
Don't be discouraged, friend. This sub's default reaction to any request to compare anything about the US with anything abroad is to get really defensive and angrily point out that the US is big.
rockninja2@reddit
Maybe you should think more in terms of **percentage** of population comparison then. And I mean generally, not just for a Birmingham, Alabama comparison. Since England has around 57 million people, in a much smaller area than California with 37 million people which is the most of any state.
Or in the case of Birmingham, AL and the whole state, Alabama has 5.1 million, with Birmingham a population of roughly 200,000, that is about 4% of the population.
Birmingham, England has about 1.1 million from a total 57 million in England, that is about 2% of the population.
Cllovelace@reddit
England is much larger than Alabama in terms of population
_RomeoEchoDelta_@reddit
I like Birmingham, I've chosen to move here, but on a national scale it's not anywhere near major. For Alabama, yes, but even here in the South it's outshadowed by ATL/Nashville/Houston
boilershilly@reddit
Birmingham is a major city and very similar to the original in some ways due to being a massive iron and steel city in the South.
Pittsburgh might be a more relevant city if you are looking for someplace bigger.
Wootster10@reddit
Midlands*
It's very much not in the south.
Potential_Grape_5837@reddit
The problem with this comparison is that an absolutely essential part of what makes Birmingham Birmingham is the accent, which is often unintelligible to people from the South East.
With respect to Americans, there is simply no equivalent.
sjplep@reddit
(Ex-West Midlands resident here, also ex-US resident).
Birmingham is twinned with Chicago as well as a number of other 'second cities' (Milan, Lyon, etc).
Chicago is huge and certainly not forgotten, but it does have certain things in common with Birmingham in terms of being in a 'second city' in the heartland of the country, a transportation and industrial hub, etc.
A fundamental difference is that the UK is a lot more centric around its largest city than the US is.
WeathermanOnTheTown@reddit
Yep, London is a perfect example of a primate city: a main city that is at least twice as big as the next largest city in the country.
sjplep@reddit
Indeed, and the divided between London and the surrounding area versus the rest of the UK has only grown in recent decades, which is a long-standing issue for policymakers (see: the 'Northern powerhouse', ongoing debates about HS2, etc).
Talking of Milan (one of Birmingham's twin cities), in a sense Italy is the opposite. Rome being the capital and largest city, but Milan being the financial centres, industrial hub and more economically powerful.
thephoton@reddit
But can Birmingham claim to be "hog butcher fir the world"?
sjplep@reddit
You'd be surprised. Pork scratchings are a local delicacy ! (well, the Black Country, which is adjacent to Birmingham, and outsiders can't always tell the difference. Locals very much can ;) ).
thephoton@reddit
But you're keeping your pork products all to yourself.
Chicago is happy to export Spam and hot dogs to anybody.
shelwood46@reddit
It has "ham" right in the name
hurtingheart4me@reddit
I’m going with Houston
Rbkelley1@reddit
Richmond isn’t far off having lived near both
JpSnickers@reddit
Philadelphia definitely. It's port is a lifeblood for America and it's completely ignored nationally.
RawAsparagus@reddit
Exactly. Philadelphia has a ton of historical importance, but I have never heard of anyone going there because they wanted to.
blooddrivendream@reddit
I did. It was a great trip.
OrdinaryAd8716@reddit
A lot of rich people in Birmingham. A lot of ghosts, in a lot of houses.
milwaukeetechno@reddit
Pittsburgh. Industrial center that ascended during the height of the industrial revolution but declined in the modern economy. Also just a long enough drive from the political and financial centers of the country to not matter.
Greedy_Reflection_75@reddit
It's Detroit. British visitors say it themselves.
AuggieNorth@reddit
I'd say Pittsburgh probably fits the bill. At one time a big industrial city, it declined but didn't die like Detroit.
happyburger25@reddit
If you had asked about Barrow-in-Furness, I'd absolutely state Baltimore or Gary (both were steel, but Baltimore's a port/railroad/railway city, which I'd assume Birmingham isn't).
freeze45@reddit
I would say Boston
YaTheDonaldHasWhored@reddit
Philly
CAAugirl@reddit
Not sure but I don’t think there are any west cities similar to b’ham. My MIL is from b’ham though.
Ana_Na_Moose@reddit
Maybe Detroit or Cleveland or Buffalo? Historically huge industrial revolution cities that have since really fallen off, and get little love or attention from tourists or other Americans
Eudaimonics@reddit
Buffalo actually gets an oversized amount of tourists due to it being next to Niagara Falls.
IcemanGeneMalenko@reddit (OP)
Birmingham has never really fallen off, it's been the 2nd biggest city size/population since the 1800s, sustained itself despite the industry decline but is still going strong today and is going to hold that for many more decades as number 3 is nowhere it...it's just culturally * there * and nothing more.
kateinoly@reddit
I'd say Chicago. It is still the third largest, and it is more of a railroad/stockyard/ working man's town than LA or Houston.
GodzillaDrinks@reddit
Is it still like in Peaky Blinders? Cause that's just Baltimore today.
Confetticandi@reddit
It depends on how inexplicable people’s neglect of it is and whether or not domestic tourists like to travel there too.
Chicago is our 3rd largest city and is legitimately impressive due to the lake shore, the architecture, the history, the food scene, the transit options, the museums etc. Domestic tourists will go to visits, but international tourists overlook it because they stick to the coasts.
Houston is our 4th largest city but is basically a giant suburban sprawl and so it has no real cultural weight. People like to live there for its big city amenities at a relatively affordable price point, but nothing it offers is on the level of what NYC/LA/Chicago offer except maybe Mexican food (but LA has that too). So, even domestic tourists don’t really plan tourist trips to Houston. They are much more likely to visit smaller Southern and Southwest cities that have more culture like New Orleans, Santa Fe, Charleston, San Antonio, etc.
stopstopimeanit@reddit
Philly. Baltimore. Houston. Phoenix.
Blaizefed@reddit
Atlanta.
Nobody goes there on vacation. It’s always been there. Regionally very important. Completely forgotten and ignored by damn near everyone else.
Blaizefed@reddit
I am American and I lived in England for a decade.
Atlanta.
AttimusMorlandre@reddit
I'm thinking of an equivalent American city based on the following criteria:
A few cities that come to mind for me are San Antonio, Texas; Chicago, Illinois; Phoenix, Arizona; Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
Odd-Local9893@reddit
Phoenix and San Antonio? I suppose but they’re 2nd tier cities and their historical relevance is debatable. I suppose San Antonio has the Alamo, which is important to Texans, and Phoenix has…um…Google search…native tribes that lived there.
AttimusMorlandre@reddit
Phoenix is the 5th most populous city in America, and San Antonio is the 7th.
San Antonio has, not just the Alamo, but a whole series of Spanish Missions and a robust history of Mexican and American influence. It might not be your cup of tea, but it's historically very unique and the cite of one of the most important historical battles in America's short history.
While I'll grant you that Phoenix doesn't have the same kind of history as Boston (or San Antonio, for that matter), Native American history is still American history. Furthermore, Phoenix and the surrounding area is home to some of the richest geological history in the country. It's also positioned relatively close to both the Grand Canyon and Mesa Verde National Monument, home of the cliff-dweller ruins. And by all other metrics, meets or exceeds any standard of tourist draw in terms of nightlife and things to do.
Odd-Local9893@reddit
Yeah but Phoenix is only the 5th biggest city because of its massive borders. Its metro area is just a bunch of suburbs and retirement communities that have sprung up in the last 50 years. Aside from a larger population I’d say that Phoenix is less important on a national scale than Denver, SLC or even Las Vegas (which are all in Mountain West states). Maybe I’m wrong. Appparently they’re getting a big chip fabrication plant soon. That should be important.
I guess I can agree with San Antonio for its Spanish cultural history.
magmagon@reddit
They already had a big chip plant and the new one is almost done. But Phoenix has a similar situation to Houston where it's got good wages to cost of living ratio, and it's great for people who live there, but not so much for tourists.
Phoenix has the benefit of being centrally located to AZ's destinations though, like Sedona, Grand Canyon, Saguaro, etc.
AttimusMorlandre@reddit
All the same, it’s the 5th largest city in America. I’ve stated what my criteria are, and listed some examples. This is just my opinion. Feel free to post your own opinion, based on your own criteria. No sense arguing about it, though.
ThomasRaith@reddit
Lol Phoenix is in no way close to Mesa Verde. It's a seven hour, 410 mile drive. The Pacific Ocean is closer. It would be like driving from London to Edinburgh in the UK.
Picklesadog@reddit
Casa Grande isn't even very close, and that's the closest you'll get.
Picklesadog@reddit
Phoenix is hours away from any historically relevant sights. Sure, there are cliff dwellings and other significant Native American ruins within a 2 hour drive, but man... 2 hours...
Phoenix has a few interesting geological areas, but again the most interesting things will be at least a 2 hour drive.
brookish@reddit
Somewhere like St Louis? Used to be a massive hub and is now just another city somewhere sort of in the middle bottom of the county with BBQ and baseball and a big metal arch for some reason. Can’t think of why I’d ever go there.
betoelectrico@reddit
Birmingham, Alabama
CharleyPDXcellent@reddit
I know Birmingham is considered "second city." That carries with it its own identity, so to match it on that level you'd want our "second city" which is Chicago. Prior to Los Angeles becoming the second largest city, Chicago was. Others have also made good points for Chicago, so I'd stick with this.
neBular_cipHer@reddit
Philadelphia, no question.
Infinite-Surprise-53@reddit
Pittsburgh
mundotaku@reddit
Chicago.
leonchase@reddit
I grew up outside Detroit during the peak of its industrial decline in the 1980s. Dated a woman from Birmingham, England years later, and there were definitely similarities. Industrial roots, heavy emphasis on automotive and related production in the 20th century, economic boom years followed by decades of deterioriation, a history of diversity and/or racial and ethnic conflict. A reputation as the butt of other people's jokes--but inhabited by the kind of people who you would be terrified to insult face-to-face. And a generally annoying accent. I don't think Birmingham fell quite as hard, in terms of economy and population, but the parallels are there.
yabbobay@reddit
I don't have a Birmingham answer, but Manchester felt like Austin, TX to me. Or a small Chicago.
IcemanGeneMalenko@reddit (OP)
When did you go to Manchester out of interest? It’s changed massively in the last 25 years. I’m 33 but can certainly see the difference in 20 years alone (I live an hour away)
yabbobay@reddit
I went June 2023. I was pleasantly surprised as I thought it would be more industrial, but it was modern and clean and fun. I could see myself living there
7yearlurkernowposter@reddit
While we aren't anywhere near the second largest St. Louis gets this comparison a lot among local anglophiles.
guycg@reddit
How's the musical history for St Louis? US cities seem to have invented a musical genre or two
Birmingham is the home of UK metal for reference. Your admiration for it would depend how you feel about bands like Black Sabbath and Napalm Death
MyFace_UrAss_LetsGo@reddit
Not totally related, but Robert Plant of Led Zeppelin has said that Delta Blues singers of Mississippi were his inspiration for singing.
guycg@reddit
It's totally related, Robert Plant was also from (around) Birmingham
Black Delta blues musicians had a bigger impact of British music than basically any other sound ever.
IcemanGeneMalenko@reddit (OP)
Not Buddy Holly and the crickets? Obviously off topic from the main thread but he influenced The Beatles and The Rolling Stones which smashed into the British invasion of the 60s and all that followed
guycg@reddit
Yes I think it was American music on general, certainly throw Elvis in there too
Beatles are interesting because they're from Liverpool, a port town with strong ties to the American South (it's where all the cotton picked went too after all) so the music of the black American South would be picked up by sailors from Liverpool. This is a different dimension to the cosmopolitan and posh Londoners the Rolling Stones who could simply buy fashionable records. The beatles had been exposed to the black American South organically through Liverpool, fusing delta, rockabilly and local folk music.
MyFace_UrAss_LetsGo@reddit
That’s why one of our recent car tags quoted “Birthplace of America’s Music” and featured B.B. King’s guitar, Lucille, on them. Might as well have said birthplace of rock and roll.
MyFace_UrAss_LetsGo@reddit
I got to see a Cards game the last year of Busch Stadium and visit the Arch. That was pretty cool.
Crayshack@reddit
From my limited knowledge of Birmingham, it's always kind of reminded me of Pittsburgh. A fairly large city with a lot of history and a major industrial powerhouse, but often overlooked in favor of other cities. I was there recently and while it draws a lot of regional tourism (hence why I was there) I didn't get the feeling that it drew much international tourism. Certainly not like I've seen in some other places.
GuitarEvening8674@reddit
Houston and no American is going to visit on vacation
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Zardozin@reddit
Chicago
Which is kind of why they chose it as a sister city.
CbusJohn83@reddit
Cleveland, Ohio has a similar population to Birmingham (at least according to my cursory google search) and was a really important town for a long time (birthplace of rock n roll, important Lake Erie port, big in the steel and rubber industries, responsible for the creation of the EPA because the river kept catching on fire in the 70’s). It fell on hard times for a few decades but is pretty cool right now with a fun downtown, disappointing but fun sports teams, great restaurants, cool people and terrible weather. Sounds pretty English to me🤣
MyFace_UrAss_LetsGo@reddit
Mississippi is the birthplace of rock n roll lmao. The blues, Robert Johnson, Elvis Presley…
CbusJohn83@reddit
Fair, I should have said “how rock n roll reached the masses.” Alan Freed is arguably the reason rock n roll became so popular. You are correct though, you guys invented it, Robert Johnson is somehow still ahead of his time. Respect.
MyFace_UrAss_LetsGo@reddit
We don’t have too much to defend in Mississippi. I gotta stick up for my state when the opportunity arises lol.
CbusJohn83@reddit
I get it, I’m from Ohio. Your food is pretty good, so you got that going for ya lol!
MyFace_UrAss_LetsGo@reddit
An interesting bit about Mississippi and Ohio History. Barq’s Root Beer/Crème Soda was created here in my hometown down here. Their red crème soda was in first introduced in Cincinnati.
bit_shuffle@reddit
Second biggest city in the US is Los Angeles. Despite the entertainment industry, it is, like Birmingham, a major industrial center, and a single massive paved concrete megalithic structure. If you fly into LA, you're slowly descending over solid buildings and streets packed to the horizon for about 30 minutes on final approach.
However LA has a real tourism industry that you would deliberately choose as part of a vacation package. For an all-work no-play city (in the sense that it isn't as big a tourism draw as other American cities) that ranks in the second tier of size for American population numbers, it is probably Chicago. However Chicago is double the size of Birmingham.
To match population size with Birmingham UK (1.1 M), you have to skip down the US list past Houston, Phoenix, Philadelphia, San Antonio, San Diego, and you stop around either Dallas (1.3 M) or Jacksonville (985K), depending on whether you want the higher or lower bracketing case. All of these are kind of non-flashy cities that don't have the tourism reputations of the bigger cities New York (8 M) and Los Angeles (3 M), or smaller cities with larger tourism orientation like Las Vegas (660K), Miami (456K), New Orleans (364K), or Honolulu (342K).
FroyoOk8902@reddit
Probably Chicago. 3rd largest city and has history, but always overshadowed by NY/LA/Miami when it comes to tourism.
wongo@reddit
Miami over Chicago for tourism? No chance
Philly is way more underrated/overlooked in that sense
FroyoOk8902@reddit
Miami is actually the second most visited city in the US behind NYC. Philly is also pretty underrated.
urine-monkey@reddit
You also have to consider that the US is massive compared to the UK. Even if Chicago doesn't have as much tourism as the sunny coastal cities, it's not like Chicago has ever been starved for tourism or cultural relevance. Look at the sheer volume of TV shows and movies that take place in Chicago.
Houston is the biggest city I can think of that fits this description. No one is gonna go see Houston when the Gulf Coast is right there.
MrAlf0nse@reddit
Detroit
WarrenMulaney@reddit
I don't see the draw. Too much panic on the streets.
john510runner@reddit
Not sure if anyone has mentioned yet but sounds like Pittsburgh.
At one time Pittsburgh was the industrial heart of the US because of the large supplies or iron ore and coal relatively near by.
Tons of money and people have flowed through there at one point in history. Now people there talk about the past there like it was lived in and built by a people who’s had technology last been lost to time.
Also Pittsburgh is kind of separate from Philadelphia/DC/NYC.
Not sure where the nearest major city would be.
Dark_Tora9009@reddit
The industrial thing? Detroit, Baltimore, Cleveland, Milwaukee all fit that. Being really big but not all that interesting? Houston
Vowel_Movements_4U@reddit
The food and population alone make Houston more interesting than many other cities. People just don’t go.
Greedy-County-8437@reddit
It would be the equivalent of melding Detroit and Chicago together. Chicago isn’t quite as industrial as Birmingham but would outright be the closes in terms of large population, etc
ElysianRepublic@reddit
Detroit, maybe Pittsburgh or Philadelphia
pinniped1@reddit
Baltimore
ChiefKingSosa@reddit
Probably Houston as its the largest city in the U.S that doesnt receive a significant amount of tourism, or at least its not a city that would be on most foreigners dream 'U.S Trip' itineraries.
However, Houston is extremely diverse and has a more diversified and dynamic economy than Birmingham and definitely receives lots of visitors abroad so its not a good comparison.
Cleveland or Detroit are probably better direct comps but neither is as big a city within its nation as Birmingham is
Vowel_Movements_4U@reddit
Probably Houston. It’s not old but it fits many of the other bills.
earthhominid@reddit
Probably Chicago.
Also a top 5 city for ages, major player in the industrial era, lots of awesome parks and historical stuff and a great lake front.
Not a hot topic for travel destinations for anyone who lives more than a couple hours away
RoommateSearcher99@reddit
Houston
Obdami@reddit
Boston
Fancy-Primary-2070@reddit
Birmingham seems to not be popular because of their development at all costs. It's not preserved or charming.
Chrisda19@reddit
Is Birmingham the one with a large Muslim population? If so, your best candidate for a city that might be similar would be Dearborn, MI. Post industrial, non tourist city in the Detroit metro area that also has a large Muslim population. Largest in the country if I'm not mistaken.
dystopiadattopia@reddit
Chicago maybe
lavender_dumpling@reddit
Any Rust Belt city. Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Detroit, Indianapolis, etc. Indianapolis is probably the best off out of the group, as the city was able to rebound fairly quickly compared to the others.
felimercosto@reddit
Pittsburgh Pennsylvania is the US equivalent to Birmingham England according to AI https://chatgpt.com/c/672a9230-a814-8007-8f53-9c5105d9b07f
felimercosto@reddit
Philly the history alone is the parallel I would start with
willtag70@reddit
I can't gauge Birmingham in the UK, but from your description I'd say maybe Pittsburg. Sometimes called the "Paris of Appalachia". Certainly not 2nd in size in the US, but is probably often overlooked in terms domestic tourism. Primary heyday was during our industrial manufacturing peak, but has a lot to offer in terms of arts, culture, education, professional sports, food and scenery.
https://www.cnn.com/travel/pittsburgh-pennsylvania-travel-attractions-restaurants/index.html
OceanPoet87@reddit
Detriot