Election Day 2024 - Read before posting
Posted by chemosabe@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 108 comments
Hi everyone. The day is finally here. By the end of the day (or week, or month, depending on how many frivolous lawsuits get filed), a good portion of US citizens are going to be bitterly disappointed with the outcome. Regardless of which side you fall on, if your first instinct is to pack up and leave the country, we would ask you to consider the following:
Emigrating is hard. Eligibility is the first concern. Do you qualify for a working visa in another country? If you don't know, you need to do research first before you post here. Do you have a distant relative who can support a claim of citizenship elsewhere? Do you possess special skills which are in high demand? If the answer to both of those questions is no, your chances of success are very very low.
Please refrain from making posts asking "where can I go?". No one can answer that for you. If your question starts with "Should I .... ", don't post it. We can't answer that for you either. You have to make your own decisions and come up with your own path.
Make use of the search function. Lots of questions have been asked before. Reddit's search sucks, but you can use Google and scope it to reddit by adding site:reddit.com to your search terms.
We will be removing posts which don't adhere to these guidelines. Please report them if you see them. It's going to be a busy day.
Thank you, and please, if you're eligible and still can, vote like the fate of democracy in the US depends on it. Because it does.
outtahere416@reddit
And Americans, please try to wrap your head around the fact that you do not have free movement rights to the rest of the world. Your US passport will give you access to your 50 states, but no other country is going to let you move there for no reason. All countries have their own immigration systems and none of them want random Americans moving there if these Americans have no business being there permanently.
You need to have a legal pathway figured out before planning your move. It could be a work visa if you’re educated and work in an in-demand career, a student visa or a golden visa. All of these require special skills or lots of money and will not be accessible to just anyone.
If you’re monolingual, uneducated and have no money, you will most likely have to stay put in the US as no country is going to accept you.
mantis-tobaggan-md@reddit
so, as a mono-lingual, broke, college dropout, is the peace corps a viable option to “bug out” so to speak? are there any agencies that will hire americans even temporarily?
Ffleance@reddit
Peace corps is competitive because a lot of fresh college grads use it to start their resume for one day joining the State Dept / agencies in DC. If you're a plumber or electrician or nurse, Peace corps will love you.
mantis-tobaggan-md@reddit
unfortunately none of the above, my career has been in manufacturing. i’m looking to leave because I can smell repeals of labor protections brewing and I want to get ahead of it.
Ffleance@reddit
i feel you...
mantis-tobaggan-md@reddit
thanks anyway. do you know anything about worldpackers or anything like that? i’ve been trying to figure out my options all morning but i’ve never realistically considered leaving beyond rose colored glasses over some beer. I understand it will be difficult and there will be sacrifices, but I would rather be uncomfortable in a foreign land than unsafe at home.
kiefer-reddit@reddit
Go teach English in a less popular country.
mantis-tobaggan-md@reddit
that’s on my list to look into, thank you
kiefer-reddit@reddit
yeah somewhere like Cambodia or random African countries won't have much competition, but of course the pay is very low
mantis-tobaggan-md@reddit
honestly, i’m not trying to get rich I just want to leave america and broaden my horizons. america clearly wants to be a homogenous nation, and I don’t agree with that. i’ve seen a couple listings for africa, I would probably avoid SA i’ve heard americans aren’t the safest there, do you know anything about other parts of africa? I actually have a passion for the english language and I think it might be a realistic path out of the country for me.
kiefer-reddit@reddit
If you think the rest of the world wants to be less homogenous than America, you are in a huge surprise once you go abroad. Literally everywhere else in the world is less open to outsiders.
My suggestion is to turn off the news and continue living your life in the US.
mantis-tobaggan-md@reddit
I mean, it’s not even really the news bro, it’s the people I live around. I live in one of the deepest red counties in the nation. we had 80% trump vote in my county. the people i’m surrounded by are cheering that fellow citizens will have their rights taken away. this ain’t the news it’s reality. shit is about to get bad. if I am going to live somewhere that is openly hostile towards me, I would rather there be a reason.
kiefer-reddit@reddit
Yeah idk then, I would just recommend moving to a place in the US that more matches your values then. Because trust me, nowhere else save perhaps Canada is as open to outsiders. And I say this as an American that's lived in Europe for the last decade.
mantis-tobaggan-md@reddit
what brought you to europe? you say it’s less welcoming to outsiders, is it really all that hostile outside of the US? creature comforts be damned I can live without high speed internet and air conditioning, I am seeking community, and culture, and something different than just white baptists and factory work. there’s more to life than what I experiencing.
mantis-tobaggan-md@reddit
I have a really bad gut feeling about the coming years. there are too many signals for the rise of facism and I would prefer to leave them witness it
syf81@reddit
If you can fix the broke part, various countries offer working holiday visas for young people, that will usually let you stay up for to a year.
alwaystooupbeat@reddit
I said this in many more words:
https://www.reddit.com/r/expats/comments/1g9ptde/american_and_looking_to_move_heres_a_guide_for_you/
People need to seriously consider their value TO another country. I've seen a lot of very quickly deleted posts which are like: I'm 96, have a high school education, no ancestry, have no money, live in the middle of nowhere, and I want to move to Ireland with no family link there. How do I do it?
It was astutely pointed out in that very same thread that the Americans who most need to be able to move, almost never can. I saw a post where someone was asking for refugee status from the US, which was insane.
spnchipmunk@reddit
The irony that I know of a poor, monolingual, illiterate woman from Central America who got help finding resources and support she will need as she's just arrived in the States for sanctuary (and she's not the only one we've seen this week).
I'm not disagreeing with you, by any means. It's just interesting to see this after having helped people in that exact situation. It makes sense, but it's disheartening to see.
akhalilx@reddit
Asylum =/ immigration
spnchipmunk@reddit
No kidding.
Yet the majority of Americans currently wishing to leave the US based on the electuon results would be doing so based on what one would currently consider asylum requirements: "fear of persecution in your home country due to your race, religion, nationality, political opinion, or social group."
Not to mention, most immigrants I've personally met and known coming to the US did so for that very reason. So while they may not be the same, they are tightly bound together.
syf81@reddit
Meanwhile there are people being deported back to literal warzones after they apply for asylum.
spnchipmunk@reddit
Yes, and?
One does not invalidate the other.
syf81@reddit
It doesn't, but the chances of it being accepted as a reason is close to 0%
spnchipmunk@reddit
Yes, I know.
And to be clear, in case anyone else scrolls this far: no one said they would be seeking asylum anywhere based on this situation. It was simply an observational statement.
akhalilx@reddit
While asylum claimants may be more visible than immigrants, it's often more difficult because you have to make the leap to a new country (that is actively trying to keep you out) and meet a very high threshold for your asylum claim to be accepted (the rejection rate is \~60 - 80%, depend on the year).
Realistically, the vast, vast majority of asylum claimants will leave everything behind in their home country, be apprehended in a new country, spend an indeterminate time in jail, be prevented from working or attending school or receiving medical care, and ultimately be rejected and deported back to their home countries. Regardless of how you feel about asylum claimants, you have to admit that's a miserable experience that upends your entire life for very little chance of a successful claim.
At least with immigration you have a certainty about your status and future prospects before you leave your home country.
spnchipmunk@reddit
You're not wrong.
temp_gerc1@reddit
I am guessing they were referring to legal and / or skilled migration pathways and not on the basis of somewhat outdated asylum laws.
spnchipmunk@reddit
Oh, I'm sure. It's just wild to see that juxtaposition
Cueberry@reddit
Well said. Also, I find it hilarious that so many want to move without a legal plan which is exactly what they complain immigrants going to the US do. The irony of that doesn't go amiss.
hobbit_lamp@reddit
you are very confused.
the people who want to move away from the US are very much not the same people who complain about immigrants moving to the US.
Leather-Ball-2588@reddit
👏👏👏
Right-Hospital-7826@reddit
exactly
chuggauhg@reddit
Not all of us complain about it 😭 but we are the minority and trying to fucking escape this hellscape we live in
Cueberry@reddit
As the OP pointed out fulfil the criteria needed and you can move as other people have done. I left my country pre-internet/social media days, and it was 100x harder than now because there was no information you had to waste so much time, and pay many in-person visits to learn the steps, you had to apply for jobs in person often door-to-door, search on newspapers etc.
Nowadays there is information everywhere. You can apply for jobs online, you can study online, you can plan and get ready with a fraction of the effort people had to put in 25-30 years ago. What I see, especially here on reddit, is a lot of entitlement and laziness on doing research, not pertaining to you or your nationality specifically, I say that in general.
It's like people don't know how to Google anymore, if they bothered to research and read up through official channels as the OP clearly indicated they would see there are plenty of solutions. In some cases immediate, in others needing a plan so may need a couple of years or more but even so, if one really wants something they should be willing to work for it.
If people aren't willing to work in fulfilling those criteria whether is getting education, skilled experience or save money, then they are just having tantrums and expat/immigrant life isn't for them anyway because to be an epat/immigrant one needs resilience.
ikalwewe@reddit
Ouch . But needs to be said.
actingotaku@reddit
Genuinely made me cackle because it is so true! I am educated, barely-trilingual, and limited funds. Only reason I was abroad originally was a student visa. Much harder trying to join the workforce.
HillarysFloppyChode@reddit
What if I’m monolingual, have money, and some college education?
Also how does the Italian citizenship by ancestor work, I have many. They were immigrants to America, the one thing Americans hate weirdly.
bongbongdrinker@reddit
You read the OP
Rock540@reddit
Bit of a smartass reply, but American citizens are entitles to move to member states of the compact of free association (Micronesia, Palau, Marshall Islands) for absolutely no reason.
Low-Cut2207@reddit
You sure? America itself allows it. Are we the only ones?
justreadingthat@reddit
I left the US largely because of Trump, and the depraved movement he inspired, during his first term. Every year since, it has been more and more clear that this was one of the the best decisions of my adult life.
History will not be kind.
TRUMP_WON_AGAIN@reddit
I moved here for the UK because of Trump, so I guess it works both ways.
HillarysFloppyChode@reddit
I’m definitely going to try to do that now, especially because I’m ✨gay✨ in a country that now hates gays.
BrosephStalinsKegger@reddit
You should check out Africa, I think you would love it.
londondeville@reddit
You just live to make other people feel horrible eh? Does that make you feel happy?
BrosephStalinsKegger@reddit
Indeed
AgileInformation3646@reddit
Truly pathetic.
BrosephStalinsKegger@reddit
🍩
BrosephStalinsKegger@reddit
Why did you delete all of your posts asking for BBC hookups? Did I embarrass you?
actingotaku@reddit
I was abroad during his first term and immediately started looking for ways to leave again. It was bliss being out of the U.S. during that time. Guess it’s time to find a new country. Hoping my new degree and work experience will make it easier.
boiwth66@reddit
If you dont mind me asking, how did you do it?
actingotaku@reddit
I was already studying abroad at a USA based university then I transferred to a university in the UK.
If you are coming from the USA, there are many international universities that will use fafsa to cover your expenses. I only had to pay for my visa, a new passport, and general moving costs. Other than that, I relied on loans, scholarships, and grants to sustain myself while studying. Also with my type of visa (I do not recall which one) I was eligible to work and do internships during my summers.
Though if you speak more than English fluently unlike me, you have way more options for long term stays. I was thinking of doing my masters abroad but the options are really limited since I’m not advanced in my language studies, and I want to go to a new country other than the UK/somewhere English speaking.
Probably way too detailed of an answer, but I love encouraging people to broaden their horizons!
boiwth66@reddit
Thank you for this answer you just gave me a lot of motivation to actually try this
H-encore@reddit
Man you are so lucky, I envy you
GordonMaple@reddit
Where did you go?
Vier3@reddit
Yeah, getting out of the country (whatever country!) is easy. Getting into another country is a different thing. Before you know it you are an illegal immigrant, etc.!
wrosecrans@reddit
The irony if a guy who ran on reducing illegal immigration winds up being a major driver for illegal immigration as some Americans move abroad and refuse to come home when their visa runs out.
Vier3@reddit
Oh, they will be deported eventually, perhaps after some (lengthy or not) stay in the big house.
EducationalOcelot4@reddit
depending on where you go, some countries prisons are better than we can afford at home.
SeanBourne@reddit
Someone once described a Norwegian prison to me, and while I’d never view a prison as positive, it really didn’t sound terrible the way you’d think a prison would be. No idea if it was all bullshit though.
Vier3@reddit
Hey, feel free to take advantage wherever you can :-)
Waste_Worker6122@reddit
As an American living overseas, I am amused at the sense of entitlement in posts like "I am sick of the USA and want to move....". No one really cares that you dont like living in the USA anymore. If you have skills and training that are in high demand worldwide (doctor, nurse, highly skilled in certain specialist areas, teachers in some cases) and are in good health or of you are filthy rich you can probably pull off an overseas move. For tne other 95% your only real chance to immigrate to snother country is marry a local.
Complete-Pear-1040@reddit
Can I ask why you see this as entitlement and a negative?
NiyaNoRona@reddit
I was literally thinking the same thing
Waste_Worker6122@reddit
Perhaps "ignorance" would have been a better word than "entitlement". I spend all day every day hitting the delete button on CVs received from people who assume their overseas experience/qualifications are relevant here (maybe yes, maybe no) and who have no legal right to work in this country (New Zealand). It is an enormous timewaster; why on earth would any employer hold a job open for months waiting for an applicant to secure a proper work/residence visa? Do you really want to live overseas? Do some actual research. Call the embassy of the country you want to potentially move to. Learn the visa requirements. Apply for the visa. Find out if your qualifications are accepted in the country you want to work with. If not (and they probably won't be) find out what you need to do to address that. Visit the country! Astonishing how many foreign applicants I receive that have never even stepped foot here (personally I blame "The Lord of the Rings for that LOL)". Learn the culture of the country you want to move to and be comfortable that you would enjoy being part of that culture..
catz4daze@reddit
People are just scared and looking for a way out. I think it’s a natural response and not necessarily entitlement.
Dr_Alexis@reddit
I am a doctor. :)
Waste_Worker6122@reddit
https://www.cdhbcareers.co.nz/Clinical/Senior-Medical-and-Dental-Officers/
Borderedge@reddit
Not American but I'll just expand a bit on the message to help out. This can be useful for no matter who. I'm an EU citizen living in another EU country and I looked this info up over and over again.
If you're under 30 (or 35 according to some countries), several countries offer working holiday visas. There is a specific Wikipedia page that lists them. Some countries may require you to have a university degree.
You might want to get a TEFL or CELTA certificate which helps you find a living by teaching English. They are especially useful in East and Southeast Asia as well as the Middle East. Daveseslcafe has a good recap of job offers and countries where one can go to.
A second citizenship takes time to obtain and you may need to learn the local language (Hungary has this requirement as far as I know). A lot of Americans are eligible for Irish or Italian citizenship. If you're a citizen of an European Union country you can easily work and live in any European Union and Schengen country.
If you want to go to Canada, the Atlantic Immigration Program will be the easiest option. It's relatively easy (personal example: I was eligible despite working in a call center) to have permanent residency by finding an eligible job in the Maritime Provinces (New Brunswick, Newfoundland and Labrador, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island) of Canada. Speaking French will be very helpful. There is an official site as well as an official job bank. The main airport in this part of Canada is in Halifax, NS.
tinfoilfascinator@reddit
Hi. Americans wanting to live in Ireland can't just roll up and say they are Irish and get to stay. (Not saying that is what you are saying but God knows an alarming number of people don't seem to grasp that having a several generations dead ancestor isn't going to get you in) Please if you are reading this and thinking of trying to go this route check out irishimmigration.ie and read for awhile.
Sensitive_Bug8268@reddit
“Several countries” do not offer youth mobility visas for American citizens, because the US doesn’t reciprocate. Even Americans should be able to easily google the terms under which the grand total of six countries let them work for a year or two.
Ginger359@reddit
I tried searching, but couldn't find what I was looking for (including using the suggested string above). Could someone recommend the best search terms for pursuing being an expat as a creative? I'm a writer. This is my FT job. When I've researched moving abroad before, a lot of that seemed reliant on having an in-demand skill, finding a company to sponsor you, or plunking down a sizable chunk of cash to start a business that employs locals or buying property. There are types of business writing I could do, but they generally aren't on in-demand skills lists. Plus, I already have a job and don't particularly want to work for a company again. So, I don't need a company to sponsor me, but need to figure out how to search for countries who will accept I have an income that doesn't involve taking a job from a local. TIA and I hope this doesn't fall afoul for questions.
unsurewhattochoose@reddit
I moved as a freelancer to the Czech Republic, but I had to submit letters from companies in the CR saying that they had work lined up for me that required me to be in the country (I taught English first until I could transition back into my career, so it was language schools who offered me freelance lessons). I couldn't get the long term residency without that. So theoretically you could get work as a freelance writer here, but getting a company to vouch for you in that capacity and wait for your visa to come through and then wait for you to arrive to pay you legally is quite a stretch.
Otherwise, there are digital nomad visas, but they limit your stay and often do not offer a path to long-term or permanent residency
Ginger359@reddit
I may not have been clear. I write books (fiction). I'm not a journalist or SEO writer or copywriter, etc.
I know about DN visas and the wealth of DN resources, but I'm not sure I want to move around every 3-9 months. The goal of posting here was to see if there were already resources for creatives, for finding a path to residency, and which doesn't involve large up-front capital investment or getting a local company to hire/sponsor you.
unsurewhattochoose@reddit
Yeah, I understood. I was just offering an alternative because in your situation, the odds are low to find an option that works
I taught English first as a means to get here, then transitioned back to my career. Making it work requires flexibility and sometimes taking a job you don't want to eventually get where you want to be.
Fit-Tooth-6597@reddit
You would probably need a ton of cash in savings. If you even manage to find a visa where you can work freelance, the government would want to see that you have enough to sustain yourself for at least a year on cash you already have.
Ginger359@reddit
The savings is not actually a problem.
Vladimir_Putting@reddit
You just have to ride the "digital nomad" visas. I doubt there is anything else for you.
Miserable_Relief8382@reddit
Also, if you’re an American who wants to move to Sweden to escape the Trump party, just don’t move there. They are in their governmental Trump era right now and this time YOU are the immigrant being treated like trash and being deported.
Initial-Fee-1420@reddit
Same with Germany and AFD. Sadly there is no running away from the lunatics anymore. The inpatients are running all the asylums.
HillarysFloppyChode@reddit
I feel like European lunatics are more manageable than American ones though.
Initial-Fee-1420@reddit
Idk, I lived in East Germany till few months ago and now in the USA. Trump just got elected, so I am worried naturally. That said I will never forget the Nazi rallies of AFD celebrating Hitler’s birthday. I find AFD worst than even Trump. I cannot wrap my head around how Germans can do that after what happened in the WWII. Voting for Nazis again. But that is just my opinion.
proof_required@reddit
Exactly! And also the fact it's a multi-party system. So they have had too many options to choose from but they willingly chose Nazis.
Initial-Fee-1420@reddit
So true. I hate it when people are saying that not all that vote AFD are Nazis. They do have quite a few options and they chose them. At that point if it walks like a Nazi and it quacks like a Nazi, I don’t call it a frustrated idiot citizen, I call it a Nazi.
Miserable_Relief8382@reddit
I’m starting to feel like letting the world burn just as they want it. Karma will make them pay for their choices.
_tinyhands_@reddit
This. The difficult lesson for some of us is that it's OK to hate and that caring is for pussies.
Initial-Fee-1420@reddit
I mean other than casting your vote in whichever country(ies) you are eligible in, and maybe raise your kids to not be far right/left crazy people, there is not much any of us can do tbh. We cannot control others and though democracies are great, their success does depend on the collective intelligence of the electorate 🤷♀️
HillarysFloppyChode@reddit
Shame, it’s a beautiful country, with a weird amount of American pickup trucks.
RothIRALadder@reddit
Far right by Sweden's definition is probably center left America.
Miserable_Relief8382@reddit
Do you live in Sweden and experiencing it?
endlesscroissants@reddit
Sweden is a really tough place to be foreign and people are often so casually racist, saying awful things without much awareness of how awful it is. Even when I lived there years ago, people on the street and even my neighbours would mutter "fucking foreigners" in Swedish if they heard my partner and me speaking English together. It was hard to integrate because everyone speaks perfect English back when you try to speak Swedish, and they were not interested in making new friends because they stuck with their dagis companions unless they had also lived abroad, in which case they were also considered foreign by fellow Swedes upon their return. I could go on about the problems, but in general, it's nice in summer but miserably dark in winter and does not totally deserve its utopian reputation.
alittledanger@reddit
Dual U.S./Irish citizen that also lived in Spain. I was just about to write something like this. The European far-right exists and is growing and they aren’t cartoonish carnival barkers like the clowns in MAGA-world.
Miserable_Relief8382@reddit
Yes I also considered Spain as another option but ultimately returned to the U.S. because if I’m going to live in this hellscape it might as well be in my own country with my own language and not needing a visa.
alittledanger@reddit
I wouldn’t call it a hellscape, I loved my two years there. But it has challenges that are going to be too much for many Americans to deal with.
Miserable_Relief8382@reddit
In the end Sweden was a hell scape for me. It’s not obvious but it chips away at you little by little.
EducationalOcelot4@reddit
it seems strange that there isn’t some country who wants to be more progressive, and just filters for smart and capable of thriving, and takes smart and capable, progressive people fleeing the American Hellscape...
RexManning1@reddit
Can we please curb and delete these doom and gloom election result posts?
wheelsmatsjall@reddit
I was just marry me a foreigner and then I best be going to a different country cuz man it look like it be Trump. Maybe I'll get me one of them you go Slavic gals. Or some other good country.
lamppb13@reddit
I will also add this since I've seen an uptick in people wanting to go into international teaching specifically.
There is a great sub for international teaching! Go to r/internationalteachers for questions on how to get into it. Spoiler alert: it's still tough.
ReefHound@reddit
I too will be very happy or very disappointed with the outcome. But I'm old enough that I have been happy and disappointed with past outcomes many times so I know that no matter who wins, life will go on. So one more thing to consider before having a knee jerk reaction based on political propaganda, is how will this really affect my day to day life?
Catcher_Thelonious@reddit
Indeed, the only thing off the charts is the hyperbole.
roub2709@reddit
I’m happy for you that the government has never tried to fuck with your fundamental rights.
Does it connect for you, that for other people, they do?
wanderingdev@reddit
Do you have a vagina? Do you love anyone who has a vagina? If so it potentially has a very strong impact on day to day life.
juicyjuicery@reddit
Thank you for this. Well timed
Rsanta7@reddit
I am from Illinois and will be eagerly watching the election results come in from British Columbia, Canada!
Theal12@reddit
Thank you mods
Duke_Newcombe@reddit
Do you qualify for any visa in another country? Either for money (some costing north of $100,000USD), or a retiree visa (in many jurisdictions, lifetime, reoccuring income of a certain amount is required), or connections (familial or business) are needed.
We won't even talk about the timeframes, even if you do qualify. Could be months...could be years of expenses, filings, re-filings, run-arounds, and lawyers before possibly attaining a visa.
Oh...and hopefully, you don't have anything in your past that would prohibit you from getting a visa (that alcohol/substance-fueled "youthful exuberance" at Palm Beach that summer, where you took a swing at a cop/those folks who were looking at you wrong? That possession charge, drunk driving, or bad check? Oops. Yes, it was 20 years ago...but still, oops.
aadustparticle@reddit
I will be unphased no matter the outcome.