Israel ends agreement with UN agency providing aid in Gaza | Israel reduces aid trucks to 'lowest' 30 per day for 2 million Palestinians in Gaza [from a high of 500]
Posted by TendieRetard@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 378 comments
tubawhatever@reddit
There's no doubt at this point: Israel intends to starve Gaza in its campaign to clear the strip. The US will do nothing to stop this, just some hand wringing and some smirking by Matthew Miller. Rules based international order has a carve out for genocide if the perpetrators are allies of the West.
Thorneas@reddit
Well people have been saying this for more than a year and so far less Gazans died from hunger than Americans (per capita statistics).
Ropetrick6@reddit
There's a weekly death toll of children dead by starvation. Trying to pardon that by saying "Oh, other places have done worse!" isn't really a good look.
Thorneas@reddit
When there is claim of genocide by starvation, it is absolutely fair to point to other states to compare the numbers. And choosing the US is as generous as it can be, given it is one of the wealthiest nations of the world at peace.
actsqueeze@reddit
That’s not what you’re doing, you’re leaving out key context in order to spread misinformation, propaganda.
What you’re doing is genocide denial
Thorneas@reddit
If genocide by hunger means 17 confirmed deaths per million in a year, almost all nations of the world face this genocide.
actsqueeze@reddit
Like I said before the number is exponentially higher than that. Israel has starved thousands of children to death already. Maybe it’s not “official” because Israel has destroyed all of Gaza’s hospitals and most of the country is still in ruins.
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/66e083452b3cbf4bbd719aa2/t/66fcd754b472610b6335d66f/1727846228615/Appendix+20241002.pdf
“In total it is likely that 62,413 people have died of starvation and its complications in Gaza from October 7th, 2023 to September 30th, 2024. Most of these will have been young children”.
Here’s the original source:
https://www.gazahealthcareletters.org/usa-letter-oct-2-2024
anonymosoctopus@reddit
Famine is defined as > 2 deaths for every 10,000 people per day. We can see that this is how they’re calculating their expected deaths in catastrophe level as 37.7 * 13 * 2 = 980.
However, in all three of the IPC reports linked in the appendix, famine was only ever projected or deemed likely in the future it was never ruled to be currently occurring and the first two projected famines were disproved by the subsequent report.
In other words, the estimate is assuming that a famine is already taking place which is contradicting the IPC reports that it gets it’s information from. This is more of a worse case scenario (albeit still a lower bound) than an actual estimate of deaths from malnutrition.
Justavisitor-0538@reddit
Sorry to respond to a two week old thread, but I think you've misinterpreted the document.
You're right that the doctors who made this estimate calculated a minimum of 2 deaths per 10,000 people per day at catastrophe level, despite the fact that Gaza is not in famine, but I think what you've missed is that according to the IPC classification "famine" and "catastrophe" refer to the same thing. The only difference is that famine refers to an area, while catastrophe refers to individual households.
Source: https://www.ipcinfo.org/fileadmin/user_upload/ipcinfo/docs/IPC_Famine_Factsheet.pdf
In other words, the health workers made this (conservative) estimate of 2 excess deaths per 10,000 people per day for the "catastrophe level" group because at an individual level, these people are experiencing famine (and thus suffering an excess mortality of at least 2/10,000 deaths per day).
The IPC says that despite rampant malnutrition, Gaza isn't yet in a famine because the people in the catastrophe level are a minority. The rest of the population dilutes the excess mortality, and so Gaza as a whole isn't suffering 2 starvation deaths a day, and so isn't in famine by IPC standards. But the doctors' calculations are still correct: they've only applied the "2 deaths estimate" to those people in the catastrophe level who, if isolated from the rest of Gaza's population, would be considered to be suffering from famine.
anonymosoctopus@reddit
No famine and catastrophe are not the same.
https://www.ipcinfo.org/fileadmin/user_upload/ipcinfo/manual/IPC_Technical_Manual_3_Final.pdf
If you go to page 89, you’ll have the four possible scenarios for catastrophe being famine, famine likely, famine projected and famine projected likely. IPC level 5 does not automatically mean that a famine is occurring even among those that are in catastrophe.
The estimate here is still assuming that a famine has already broken out among those in IPC level 5.
alwaysiamdead@reddit
Well and it's also hard to count how many children died from bombing while slowly dying of starvation.
travistravis@reddit
"We saved them from starving with BOMBS!"
Ropetrick6@reddit
Starving civilians as a military strategy, what Israel is currently doing, is a violation of rule 53 of the Geneva Convention.
anonymosoctopus@reddit
Where’s the weekly death toll from starvation? The official number of deaths from malnutrition has been at 41 for a while now (at least to my knowledge).
Ropetrick6@reddit
62,413 is the bare minimum amount of people who have starved to death by October 2nd since Israel's complete occupation of the Gaza Strip. With the majority of those being children, let's take the most charitable estimate and say that 51% were children. That's 31 thousand dead children from starvation, across a time period of 51 weeks, for an an average of 619 children per week. As many of the elderly who die are simply buried and go unreported, the true amount of people who've starved to death is certainly higher.
anonymosoctopus@reddit
Even if we ignore that the method contradicts what is stated in the IPC reports (nowhere in any of the IPC reports does it state a famine is taking place yet it uses a famine level death rate in the estimate) it’s not the bare minimum anyway: it’s just an estimate and estimates can be wrong.
The maths in this estimate is fine but they can’t follow the information provided. Genuinely just ignore any estimate of indirect deaths unless it’s done via survey.
bandaidsplus@reddit
They make the same excuses for Isreal that the pro Russians do for their war effort in Ukraine and don't see the irony. And they wonder why the countries trying to join BRICS call us hypocritical.
actsqueeze@reddit
That’s literally not true.
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/66e083452b3cbf4bbd719aa2/t/66fcd754b472610b6335d66f/1727846228615/Appendix+20241002.pdf
“In total it is likely that 62,413 people have died of starvation and its complications in Gaza from October 7th, 2023 to September 30th, 2024. Most of these will have been young children”.
Thorneas@reddit
Source of my claim is in other comment.
Your source is an estimation and given other sources, i think very wrong estimation. I find it absurdly unlikely that out of 60 k plus starvation deaths there would be only 34 officially counted. To count starvation deaths is actually much easier then count military deaths (starving children/people aren't buried under debris) which Hamas Health Ministry is roughly able to do. I see no way they could count only 34 if there have been 60 k starvation deaths.
actsqueeze@reddit
You find it absurd because you’re a genocide denier or you don’t wanna believe the cruelty of what’s happening there. Your number is actually the absurd number.
Maybe this doctor working in Gaza can convince you:
https://www.reddit.com/r/blowback/s/YjZDzwHbbX
“I am genuinely afraid of what we find out when the dust settles”.
deucedeucerims@reddit
Yo where are you getting updates on death tolls last I remember there were the doctors that estimated ~120,000 but I’d assume the numbers higher now
actsqueeze@reddit
https://www.gazahealthcareletters.org/usa-letter-oct-2-2024
Go to the appendix for a detailed explanation
deucedeucerims@reddit
Thank you kindly
lizardtrench@reddit
Fewer have died, but far, far more are acutely malnourished.
Basically, Americans have a ton of food but are not distributing it as equally, while those in Gaza have little food but have been spreading it amongst the entire population to reduce actual deaths.
cheeruphumanity@reddit
Please share the statistics you are talking about.
Thorneas@reddit
https://imeu.org/article/fact-sheet-one-year-of-israels-genocide-in-gaza-by-the-numbers - this is a number of confirmed starvation deads - 34 in a year or 1,7 pre 100000 people. While it is of course just confirmed deaths, as seen by other numbers and style of the article this source is definitely not Israel leaning and if there was any higher number they could use, they would use it.
On the other hand US - https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2023-04-13/deaths-from-malnutrition-have-more-than-doubled-in-the-u-s - 20500 deads from malnutrition, or roughly 6 per 100000 people.
lizardtrench@reddit
From that same source, 500,000 (or 1/4 of the entire population of Gaza) are suffering from extreme levels of hunger.
More than 21,600 out of approx 100,000 (or 1 out of every 5) children from six months to 5 years are diagnosed with acute malnutrition.
Needless to say, the US, or any first world country, does not even come close to approaching these numbers and percentages.
Considering these stats, that there are 'only' 34 starvation deaths can really only mean that the people of Gaza are spreading out what little food they do have as equally as humanly possible.
Airowird@reddit
And of those 20500 deaths, 0 were caused because a foreign occupier halted UN food shipments at the border.
So Gaza is 34 more starvations through occupation than the US, and statistically infinitely more.
Lies, damned lies & statistics.
cheeruphumanity@reddit
Amazing what people come up with to downplay Israeli crimes. Thanks for answering though.
arostrat@reddit
So you saying that the standard of living in Gaza, while at war, is higher than USA? May be Americans should elect a Palestinian for president.
Thorneas@reddit
That is not what I said.
Killeroftanks@reddit
See the problem is that in this war the only stats being published are confirmed deaths, and it's kinda hard to confirm a death if all of the medical facilities are rubble, all of the records are under 30 tons of concrete, steel and bodies, and 90% or the medical staff are dead.
As such you get a nice data blackout where no information is being published, because no information is being created. Because everyone is dead.
Thorneas@reddit
True that data are almost certaintly incomplete. However if there really was widespread famine and tens of thousands deaths by starvation, don't you think oficial number would by much higher then 34? It is much easier to count starvation deaths then military deaths.
I am able to believe (I actually believe it) data are incomplete and it should be higher - don't know how much, if by order of magnitude or how much. But I am not able to believe it to be higher by order of more then 3 magnitudes.
Killeroftanks@reddit
ok so your issue is you think there is a system in place to count in the first place.
however on the ground there isnt any. theres no doctors, theres no hospitals, theres no records to cross reference people. there is nothing outside of a handful of people that can do this job, and to be frank, making sure more people are alive because theyre hurt is far more important than checking someone death status and who they are. thats the reason why the death toll barely moved past 43k since like 8 months ago. they cant confirm any more deaths because the system in place has been destroyed. hence why the far more realistic number of 300-500k deaths is much more likely due to the level of destruction and how dense gaza is. which fun fact if we use this number, has a higher death rate, than the Holodomor.... which is why people are calling this a genocide. because its hitting the levels of other genocides and at that point anyone who is saying otherwise is using semantics to defend their position.
Thorneas@reddit
If we use numbers like 500k, sure, it would be different picture. However I have not seen any, not even the most palestinian leaning sources, operating with this number. If you just made up the numbers and go from there, you can come to any result you want. The absolutely highest number (including all indirect deaths) I have seen have non been higher than 200 k.
If there is no working hospital, how come Israel always attack hospitals and health workers? You cannot have this both ways. While I acknowledge that there is very limited acces to medical care, even the links from others in this thread shows there are at least some working ones.
TendieRetard@reddit (OP)
Maybe let reporters in to confirm that "totally not happening" starvation claims then?
Federal_Thanks7596@reddit
The war has "only" been going on for a year and I don't think it's the easiest task to count how many people died from hunger when hundreds of thousands of people were forced out of their homes under constant Israeli bombardment.
Tooterfish42@reddit
They can always eat the hostages
Assassinduck@reddit
Hayyyy, you are that one very specific idiot from the H3 subreddit who consistently sucks Ethan's dick. It's very funny and very fitting that you'd be here, and would manage to be so racist that the mods just outright deleted your comment.
rattleandhum@reddit
the bile of racism and aprtheid is just too bitter to stomach, unfortunately. It makes for poor eating.
Tooterfish42@reddit
Flair checks! You practically speak fluent Afrikaans!
rattleandhum@reddit
ja, ek kan afrikaans praat, jou dom poes.
Blarg_III@reddit
Always has done
Life-Shine-1009@reddit
What a great way to starve off the number of people that might resist your rule in the coming months.
It's a open violation of human rights and Geneva convention.
I wish for gods sake Washington just ends the blockade inside the security council on the actions of Israel.
The international community and the ICC would be bringing hell on this colonial state.
cookingandmusic@reddit
Huh you’d think Hamas would surrender the hostages if it was really so dire…hey how come no ones died of famine after a year of starvation 🧐
ADP_God@reddit
It’s well recorded that Hamas beats Gazans, steals aid, and resells it to them to fund the war at extortionate prices.
Kate090996@reddit
Really? Well recorded?
Do you have unbiased proof that international aid went to Hamas?
If not, you would be at least the 35th person that I asked and didn't have proof . If it's so we'll recorded it should be easy for you
"Israel says* is not proof. Proof is a reputable source preferably one with numbers, those are my favorite , an investigation, an admission from representatives. Pretty much anything you would accept if the roles were reversed. If I would say IDF steals food in Gaza, you would probably want proof.
ADP_God@reddit
(Might interest you.)[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=07bQ9rBKqLQ]
Kate090996@reddit
Excuse me but how is that unbiased ?
ADP_God@reddit
If you don’t like the words out of the Gazan’s mouths themselves I can’t help you.
Kate090996@reddit
Oh, "facts" now come from The Australia/Israel & Jewish Affairs Council through an Israeli reporter? Nothing suspicious about that.
You can't phantom the idea that gazans are in such a desperate situation that they would say anything on camera for a bag of rice.
ADP_God@reddit
https://nypost.com/2024/10/10/world-news/hamas-steals-humanitarian-aid-trucks-from-gaza-strip/
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/27/world/middleeast/palestine-gazans-hamas-food.html
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/aerial-footage-shows-hamas-fighters-beating-gazans-stealing-humanitarian-aid-from-truck-idf-says/ar-AA1lhTCH
https://www.france24.com/en/video/20240316-gazans-face-exorbitant-prices-for-smuggled-aid-on-black-market
https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2024/03/15/israel-hamas-war-gazans-are-at-the-mercy-of-profiteers-driving-up-food-prices_6621377_4.html#
splader@reddit
Imagine saying this with a straight face
Kate090996@reddit
Ah well, if IDF says so we must believe it I know the video, it wasn't confirmed
Lol, the joke of the fucking month , it's the opposite sweaty
quantitative analysis
another one for uk
another one
CNN staff complaining
dead vs killed
And I can't find the one when palestinians children like Hind were referred as anything but kids, bullshit like 'young woman'
Fuck your victim mentality , I am tired of it, look at the actual facts for once in your life
cookingandmusic@reddit
Shhh don’t let the Hamas supp—I mean pro Palestine supporters hear you
feed_me_moron@reddit
Maybe if this UN organization wasn't consistently found to have Hamas terrorists ingrained in it, Israel wouldn't have a problem letting them in. But they've been completely vile in using the UN name to cover for their terrorists and smuggling weapons into there.
Wolfensniper@reddit
Ah my favorite "the whole world is Hamas except Israel" argument
real_human_20@reddit
The tried and true “everyone I don’t like is a terrorist” argument, works every time
^/s
real_human_20@reddit
66 out of 10,000 members are currently under investigation for potential ties to militant groups and outside influence.
mwa12345@reddit
Iirc, unrwa had those folks vetted by Israel first . (Think they were required to).
real_human_20@reddit
Yup, Israel / the host country vets each member before they begin working with UNRWA. Additionally, they get updated annually on each member’s position, identity, and other relevant information.
Kate090996@reddit
I there there are 13k only in Gaza and 30k in the region.
Every 10 guilty members represents 0.077%. of total UNRWA in Gaza and 0.033% out of UNRWA
Stubbs94@reddit
Literally 9 out of those accused by the occupying power have even been found to maybe be in the resistance, and they were fired just in case. The hasbara trolls are just so disgusting.
Lazorgunz@reddit
Starving hundreds of thousands of women and children is the answer and certainly wont lead to even more problems down the road, from gaza and internationally
cultish_alibi@reddit
So that means it's okay to starve children?
mwa12345@reddit
UNRWA folks were vetted by Israel first before being hired.
Unless there is any evidence, this is just more lies from Israel Among the millions of lies.... Like "beheaded babies" .
Foundation al lie of course ea that "it was land without a people for a people without a land".
You know it is a lie because that is not what the Zionists told themselves.
Ropetrick6@reddit
Can you provide evidence for your claims?
SowingSalt@reddit
People have been saying Gazans have been starving for 10 months now.
Once again, the Isrealis are the most incompetent genociders in history, almost like they aren't committing genocide.
Iovah@reddit
It turns out people can live with barely enough amounts of calories a day while their life being living hells.
Reatricting access to necessities might not kill them in a year en masse, but it will kill them in the long run by malnutrition and diseases they can't fight off. So is it okay to do genocide, but very very slowly?
SowingSalt@reddit
This genocide is so slow, the Palestinian population has been increasing near constantly. Unlike, say, the Armenian population in Eastern Turkey, or the Kosovar and Albanian population of Yugoslavia.
TendieRetard@reddit (OP)
did you know the Jews were genocided over 4 yrs of war and they still survived it?
SowingSalt@reddit
The Jewish population has barely recovered from those events today, and the Arab leadership, who cooperated with the Nazis at the time, want to finish the job.
Ropetrick6@reddit
But the Jewish population has grown, so there couldn't have been a genocide, riiiiiiight?
Praetori4n@reddit
No one is saying that Jews are experiencing an ongoing genocide dummy. Did the Jewish population go down during the holocaust? That’s the comparison you’re looking for.
Ropetrick6@reddit
The Jewish population has grown since, ergo the Holocaust could not have been a genocide, just like how the Nakba could not have been a genocide because the Palestinian population has grown since it took place. At least, that's the only consistent interpretation that fits with Mr. Sowing Salt's stance on the Nakba having not been genocidal in any way, shape, or form, and that it was a good thing actually.
If you're going to try and defend that Nakba supporter, it's best to keep these sorts of thingsi n mind.
Admirable-Spread-407@reddit
The Nakba was a catastrophic loss in a war, not a genocide.
find quotes from Arab leaders that use the term nakba
Early Usage
The earliest significant use of "nakba" came from Syrian historian Constantin Zureiq, who used it to describe the Arab military defeat. After the 1967 war, Zureiq again used "nakba" to refer to the failed Arab attempts to eliminate Israel, viewing both 1948 and 1967 as military catastrophes[1].
Arab Leadership Statements
Several Arab leaders made statements acknowledging responsibility for the Palestinian exodus:
Syrian Prime Minister's Admission Khaled al Azm, Syria's Prime Minister after 1948, wrote: "Since 1948 it is we who demanded the return of refugees... while it is we who made them leave... We brought disaster upon... Arab refugees, by inviting them and bringing pressure to bear upon them to leave"[2].
Historical Context Change The term's political meaning evolved significantly over time: - In 1920, Arabs initially used "nakba" to protest being called Palestinian, as they considered the land part of greater Syria[1]. - The PLO's original 1964 charter didn't mention the term "nakba" at all[1]. - It wasn't until 1998 that Yasser Arafat officially instituted annual "Nakba Day" commemorations[1].
Modern Usage
In 2023, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas issued a decree defining the "nakba" as "a crime against humanity" perpetrated by "Zionist gangs," making denial of this interpretation punishable by two years imprisonment[1].
Citations: [1] What Is the Meaning of “Nakba”? - Aish.com https://aish.com/what-is-the-meaning-of-nakba/ [2] A great write-up I found of quotes (with sources) from Arab ... - Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/Israel/comments/1cv5ex5/a_great_writeup_i_found_of_quotes_with_sources/ [3] About the Nakba - Question of Palestine https://www.un.org/unispal/about-the-nakba/ [4] Nakba - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba [5] 1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikiquote https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_exodus [6] Quick Facts: The Palestinian Nakba ("Catastrophe") - IMEU https://imeu.org/article/quick-facts-the-palestinian-nakba
Ropetrick6@reddit
Ah yes, the widespread forced displacement, rape, and massacre of civilians, "not a genocide". Tell me, why do you idolize the Safsaf massacre?
Admirable-Spread-407@reddit
Warning civilians to vacate a war zone isn't forced displacement and forced displacement on its own wouldn't amount to genocide, either.
Should Israel have not warned civilians to vacate war zones?
Ropetrick6@reddit
Displacing the population is a key part of the steps of genocide, and was the first thong Nazi Germany did.
Secondly, what about the land theft, sackings, razings, rapes, and massacres? You're awfully intent on avoiding that subject.
Admirable-Spread-407@reddit
Displacement is ethnic cleansing at worst. Not genocide.
Don't waste my time if you can't be bothered to understand definitions.
Ropetrick6@reddit
https://www.hmd.org.uk/learn-about-the-holocaust-and-genocides/what-is-genocide/the-ten-stages-of-genocide/
Tell me what's included in step 8.
Also tell me what the SafSaf massacre was, and all of the massacres of the Nakba were.
Admirable-Spread-407@reddit
Make an argument or piss off.
Ropetrick6@reddit
My argument is that trying to justify or sweep the Nakba under the rug is morally reprehensible and a sign of barbarism.
Admirable-Spread-407@reddit
The Nakba was a catastrophic war loss. You can look up the Arab leaders quotes yourself. Until it became more politically expedient to frame it as an ethnic cleansing.
Well the Jews seem to be just as bad at ethnic cleansing as they are at genocide because they forgot to expel 150k Arabs by the end of the 1948 war. They eventually gave them citizenship and allowed the Arab population to soar to over 2 million.
Goddamn they seem to fucking suck really bad at this, don't they?
Now contrast that with the effectiveness of the expulsions of Jews from the Arab world. Since you seem to care so deeply about massacres and ethnic cleansing (once you stop referring to it as genocide).
Ropetrick6@reddit
Ah yes, the Safsaf massacre, "war losses" eh?
Or, you know, the actual definition of ethnic cleansing...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_towns_and_villages_depopulated_during_the_1947–1949_Palestine_war
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba
But hey, I get that definitions can get hard for Nakba supporters like yourself.
Well, the Nazis seem to be just as bad at ethnic cleansing as they are at genocide because they forgot to exterminate tens of thousands of Jews in Germany before the reunification.
Does having what you said flipped around help you understand just how fucking barbaric it is, or does your support of atrocities extend so far that you agree with Nazi sentiments?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_right_of_return
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Bank
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip
Riiiiiiiiiiiiight...
Whataboutism is a logical fallacy that happens when you try to justify an unjust action by pointing out other unjust actions. It is a crime against logic and good-faith conversation, being solely used as a bad-faith argument in place of a logical one.
It's unbecoming of you to try and use a logical fallacy as your sole argument, but we're well past that point as it's also unbecoming of you to try and support the barbaric atrocities of the Nakba. Awfully telling about you as a person, I'd say.
Admirable-Spread-407@reddit
Ok now list the Arab massacres of Jews.
No, they lost a fucking world war.
Glad you brought this up.
Here are the key aspects of Arab-Nazi collaboration during World War II:
Leadership Collaboration
Military Cooperation
Propaganda Efforts
Political Alignment
Post-War Impact
Citations: [1] Nazi Antisemitism & Islamist Hate - Tablet Magazine https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/history/articles/the-nazi-roots-of-islamist-hate [2] Arabs and Jews: The Holocaust and its Aftermath - Fathom Journal https://fathomjournal.org/arabs-and-jews-the-holocaust-and-its-aftermath/ [3] Full official record: What the mufti said to Hitler | The Times of Israel https://www.timesofisrael.com/full-official-record-what-the-mufti-said-to-hitler/ [4] Hajj Amin al-Husayni: Wartime Propagandist | Holocaust Encyclopedia https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/hajj-amin-al-husayni-wartime-propagandist [5] Amin al-Husseini - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haj_Amin_al-Husseini [6] Relations between Nazi Germany and the Arab world - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relations_between_Nazi_Germany_and_the_Arab_world [7] How Nazis courted the Islamic world during WWII – DW – 11/13/2017 https://www.dw.com/en/how-nazis-courted-the-islamic-world-during-wwii/a-41358387 [8] The Nazi-Arab alliance: A neglected aspect of Holocaust education https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-802262 [9] Palestine and Nazi Germany - Museum of Tolerance https://www.museumoftolerance.com/education/archives-and-reference-library/online-resources/simon-wiesenthal-center-annual-volume-4/annual-4-chapter-17.html [10] The Farhud: Roots of the Arab-Nazi Alliance in the Holocaust eBook https://www.amazon.ca/Farhud-Roots-Arab-Nazi-Alliance-Holocaust-ebook/dp/B00AGJZEOC [11] Nazis, Islamists, and the Making of the Modern Middle East - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazis,_Islamists,_and_the_Making_of_the_Modern_Middle_East [12] Nazi Propaganda for the Arab World | Wilson Center https://www.wilsoncenter.org/event/nazi-propaganda-for-the-arab-world
Ropetrick6@reddit
Your whataboutism isn't a good argument forwhy the atrocities Nakba was supposedly good things rather than, you know, the barbaric atrocities that they were.
Admirable-Spread-407@reddit
Here are several significant quotes from Arab leaders and officials about the Nakba and the exodus of Palestinians in 1948:
Arab Leadership Statements
The Arab Higher Committee secretary Emil Ghoury acknowledged that the refugee situation was a direct result of Arab states' actions: "The existence of these refugees is a direct result of the Arab States' opposition to the partition plan and the reconstitution of the State of Israel. The Arab states adopted this policy unanimously and the responsibility of its results, therefore is theirs"[1].
Jamal Husseini, Acting Chairman of the Palestine Arab Higher Committee, stated to the UN Security Council: "The Arabs did not want to submit to a truce they rather preferred to abandon their homes, their belongings and everything they possessed in the world and leave the town"[1].
Syrian Leadership Perspective
Syria's Prime Minister Khaled al Azm made a particularly candid admission about Arab leaders' role:
"Since 1948 it is we who demanded the return of refugees... while it is we who made them to leave... We brought disaster upon... Arab refugees, by inviting them and bringing pressure to bear upon them to leave... We have rendered them dispossessed... We have accustomed them to begging"[1].
Palestinian Leadership Recognition
Even Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen), the current Palestinian Authority President, acknowledged in 1976: "The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny, but instead they abandoned them, forced them to emigrate and to leave their homeland, imposed upon them a political and ideological blockade"[1].
Local Media Coverage
The Jordanian newspaper Falastin reported: "The Arab States encouraged the Palestine Arabs to leave their homes temporarily in order to be out of the way of the Arab invasion armies"[1].
Citations: [1] A great write-up I found of quotes (with sources) from Arab ... - Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/Israel/comments/1cv5ex5/a_great_writeup_i_found_of_quotes_with_sources/ [2] 1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikiquote https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_exodus [3] The Nakba Obsession | City Journal https://www.city-journal.org/article/the-nakba-obsession [4] Nakba - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba [5] Al Nakba: the history of Palestine since 1799 https://remix.aljazeera.com/aje/PalestineRemix/al-nakba.html [6] About the Nakba - Question of Palestine - the United Nations https://www.un.org/unispal/about-the-nakba/
Ropetrick6@reddit
Is there a reason you're trying to brush the massacre of 400 settlements, including the Safsaf massacre, under the rug? Because you seem to be oddly invested in denying all of the atrocities committed as part of the Nakba...
Admirable-Spread-407@reddit
Is there a reason you can't read?
Ropetrick6@reddit
How many more false accusations are you going to make?
Now stop avoiding the question. Tell me why you're trying to hide away the atrocities committed in the Nakba, like the Safsaf masssacre, the Al-Khisas massacre, the Balad al-Shaykh massacre, and the Semiramis Hotel bombing as just a few examples?
Why are you trying to bury history and replace it with propaganda?
Admirable-Spread-407@reddit
If you could read my previous reply you wouldn't have this asinine question.
Ropetrick6@reddit
If you'd stop denying the existence of those atrocities, I wouldn't have to ask you why you keep trying to deny the existence of those atrocities. Funny how that works out, huh?
Admirable-Spread-407@reddit
If you could read, you'd see that corrected your misapprehension and supplied support for that correction.
You're just a broken record at this point.
Ropetrick6@reddit
Buddy, you're the one trying to deny the existence of the atrocities committed as part of the Nakba.
Admirable-Spread-407@reddit
Read
Ropetrick6@reddit
I have.
Admirable-Spread-407@reddit
Apparently not.
Ropetrick6@reddit
Apparently you can't read, because I very much have.
If you want to beat the allegations of denying atrocities that happened in the Nakba, let's take this step by step. Do you believe that the Safsaf Massacre did or did not happen?
Admirable-Spread-407@reddit
I couldn't give two fucks about accusations from people who can't read.
Ropetrick6@reddit
Odd, you seem to be giving your own accusations a lot of fucks.
Anyways, considering your refusal to acknowledge the existence of the Safsaf Massacre, it's a given that you are trying to hide the atrocities of the Nakba.
Admirable-Spread-407@reddit
You seem oddly obsessed with this one massacre. Do you want to just trade massacres or are you able to have a more productive exchange as I've attempted?
Do you acknowledge these massacres?
1830s Safed Pogroms
The Jewish community in Safed faced two major pogroms:
1834 Pogrom A devastating 33-day massacre where armed Arab and Bedouin villagers attacked the Jewish population of Safed. Over 500 Jews were killed, synagogues were burned, and women were assaulted. Sacred religious items including Torah scrolls were destroyed[1].
1838 Pogrom A three-day attack by Druze forces, supported by Arabs, targeting the Jewish community in Safed. The violence included murders, home plundering, synagogue desecration, and assaults on women. This attack forced many Jews to flee to Saint-Jean-d'Acre or Jerusalem[1].
1920s-1930s Violence
1920 Jerusalem Riots A four-day outbreak of violence (April 4-7, 1920) in Jerusalem resulted in over 200 Jews injured, six killed, and multiple women assaulted. The Arab police not only refused to intervene but some participated in the violence[1].
1929 Palestine Riots A particularly deadly series of attacks resulting in: - 133 Jews killed - 339 Jews wounded - Included the Hebron massacre (67 Jews killed, 58 wounded) - Safed massacre (18-20 Jews killed, 80 wounded)[4]
1938 Tiberias Pogrom On October 2, 1938, 19 Jews were killed in an attack on the Jewish community of Tiberias[4].
These attacks often led to the displacement of long-established Jewish communities from their traditional homes, as exemplified by the exodus of Jews from Jerusalem's Old City following the 1920 pogrom[1].
Citations: [1] Pogroms in Palestine before the creation of the state of Israel (1830 ... https://www.fondapol.org/en/study/pogroms-in-palestine-before-the-creation-of-the-state-of-israel-1830-1948/ [2] Massacres and the Nakba - Al-Majdal https://www.badil.org/publications/al-majdal/issues/items/489.html [3] The Nakba: Five Palestinian towns massacred 75 years ago https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/5/15/the-nakba-five-palestinian-towns-massacred-75-years-ago [4] List of killings and massacres in Mandatory Palestine - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_and_massacres_in_Mandatory_Palestine
Ropetrick6@reddit
I acknowledge that massacres of Jewish people have happened, yes. That does not excuse the massacre of innocent civilians by Jewish people.
Now, do you acknowledge the existence of the atrocities committed against Palestinians as part of the Nakba?
Admirable-Spread-407@reddit
I acknowledge atrocities occurred on both sides and that the Nakba is, as described by the Arab leaders who waged Anwar of destruction against Israel and the Jews, was a catastrophic war loss rebranded as ethnic cleansing.
Ropetrick6@reddit
It's not "rebranding" to recognize ethnic cleansings as ethnic cleansings. It's simply recognizing reality.
Admirable-Spread-407@reddit
I literally provided multiple quotes of Arab leaders accepting responsibility for Arabs fleeing Israel so that multiple Arab countries could eradicate Israel and the Jews in a war in which they suffered a catastrophic (Nakba) loss. 150k Arabs remained in Israel, were eventually given citizenship, and they number over 2 million today.
If Israel was interested in ethnically cleansing Arabs they could have and would have finished the job and certainly not given them citizenship (which would have been on par with how Palestinian Arabs were treated and continue to be treated to this day in Lebanon and Jordan.
Ropetrick6@reddit
Buddy, pal, friendo, killing, raping, and displacing civilians in order to change demographics is Ethnic Cleansing. Those were all key parts of the Nakba done by the Jewish terrorist groups that formed Israel.
Words have meanings, but that seems to be difficult for you to understand.
Admirable-Spread-407@reddit
You didn't respond to anything I said not provide any support for your claims.
Ropetrick6@reddit
I responded to you denying the existence of ethnic cleansings as a concept by telling you the definition of ethnic cleansings. It's really not that complicated.
Admirable-Spread-407@reddit
I provided evidence to you supporting my claim that the Nakba was, on the whole, a catastrophic military loss and not a systematic ethnic cleansing by Israel.
Ropetrick6@reddit
Except for all of the Ethnic Cleansing done by Israel throughout the entirety of the Nakba.
Admirable-Spread-407@reddit
Broken record.
You need to deal directly with the Arab leaders direct quotes which describe the Nakba as a catastrophic war loss and their acknowledgement that they told Palestinian Arabs to flee so they could rid Israel of the Jews.
Ropetrick6@reddit
Yes, you trying to ignore the parts of the Nakba that are inconvenient for you is getti g rather old.
Admirable-Spread-407@reddit
I acknowledged the atrocities on both sides. You refuse to move on and acknowledge how clearly the Nakba narrative changed.
Ropetrick6@reddit
The narrative doesn't matter in the face of what actually happened. If you care more about a handful of people saying "it was military losses" in the face of actual Ethnic Cleansing, you're not anything resembling a good person.
Semantics don't matter in the face of atrocities.
Admirable-Spread-407@reddit
What actually happened is that hundreds of thousands of Arabs fled because they were told to by Arab leaders who promised they'd deliver all of Israel proper once they won the war. 150k Arabs didn't need that advice. They opted to stay and eventually became citizens of Israel.
It was the Arabs that didn't accept the land partition and opted for war instead. Israel accepted the land partition and they won the war. If ethnic cleansing was the goal, why the fuck did they let 150k Arabs remain and then eventually give them citizenship? And let that demographic grow to 2M+ today? Do you see how absurd that is?
Ropetrick6@reddit
What actually happened in that 400 Arabic settlements were purged by the terrorists that founded Israel. You're trying to hide behind "war losses" when what happened were rapes, murders, and MASSACRES of civilians.
Maybe instead of trying to hide behind pretty words, you should say the unabashed truth: your favorite ethnostate raped and massacred countless civilians in order to ensure population demographics matched what they considered to be "ideal".
Admirable-Spread-407@reddit
Take your spaz somewhere else please.
Ropetrick6@reddit
You mispelled Franchi SPAS-12. Simple mistake to make.
Admirable-Spread-407@reddit
Oh wow you have a gun really impressive 🙄 I'm so scared.
I have several. Fuck off.
Ropetrick6@reddit
You don't even know how to spell, I highly doubt you're in any way proficient (if, of course, you even have any).
Praetori4n@reddit
Jesus look at the words I wrote and fucking think about the point being made. Use that thing between your ears, should it exist (which is certainly coming into doubt every post you make).
You don’t have a gotcha here it’s an incredibly stupid point you’re making. Try again.
Admirable-Spread-407@reddit
What an absolutely asinine thing to say.
Obviously the population increased after the genocide had stopped.
Are you over the age of 10?
Ropetrick6@reddit
Sowing Salt used the exact argument you're saying is asinine, to deny the existence and scope of the atrocities Israel has committed. If you have issues with it, you should take it up with him.
Admirable-Spread-407@reddit
No, he made the same argument as me.
Ropetrick6@reddit
No, I used the exact argument he's used when it comes to what Israel has done to Palestinians. You can literally go check right now if you're so inclined.
Admirable-Spread-407@reddit
You've clearly misunderstood.
Ropetrick6@reddit
Misunderstood what? Go on, enlighten me.
Zipz@reddit
The population of Jews in the world still 80 years later hasn’t reached the levels that existed before the Holocaust.
TendieRetard@reddit (OP)
oh, ok, I guess that makes the holocaust not a genocide then.
Overlord1317@reddit
Or the Jewish populations throughout the Muslim world for the past 85ish years.
SowingSalt@reddit
The Jewish population in the Muslims world is a bare fraction of what it was in 1945.
For those following at home.
Overlord1317@reddit
Arab colonists are conducting a war of expansion against the native populations in Africa right now with zero respect for human life, with rampant ethnic cleansing, and the use of widespread atrocities that dwarf other ongoing conflicts in the world.
Where are the protests? Where is the U.N. condemnation?
Admirable-Spread-407@reddit
No news, no news unfortunately.
It's a consequence of an obsession with Jews and Israel.
Iovah@reddit
Ah, so all the things that are being done to them is okay, because they are still having children.
Good idea to mention Armenia btw, it's so relevant to Gaza at the moment. I do not deny the Armenian genocide by the way, you are not getting any points for angering the evil angry Turk.
YairJ@reddit
More like 16 years...
lizardtrench@reddit
Incompetence is being too blatant about it, which would be more likely to cause loss of US and other support, which in turn is necessary for them to continue what they are doing.
As long as they maintain some semblance of implausible deniability, and throw up enough chaff into the propaganda sphere, pro-Israel administrations can continue to justify their support to their respective publics.
In other words, this is a 'smart' genocide. Instead of just nuking them, drop nuclear-equivalent of conventional explosives, instead of outright targeting civilians, just don't bother with any type of civilian casualty assessment and let the explosion radius do the work, instead of outright freezing aid, let a bare minimum get through and increasingly clamp down with the justification that aid agencies are full of terrorists, etc. etc.
Airowird@reddit
I mean, I wouldn't call it the worst, there once was this German guy who had 5 years and control over a continental empire and he didn't get the job done either!!
(The above is meant as a sarcastic jab at "bad at genocide" arguments, NOT in any way support of genocide)
FYI, plenty of genocides in history only killed <2% of the targeted population, or didn't reach death tolls in the 10s of thousands, which is what the current campaign in Gaza is at on confirmed numbers alone. If historic data is the bar, pretty much every war/conflict in the last 50y is genocide.
As soon as there is an intent to prevent basic medical care, food or water from reaching a specific population whom you occupy, the act can be called genocide under the UN definition. Doesn't matter how bad you are at it.
Plus, even if it's negligence, it'ld still be war crime, but that is just a lack of action, this is a deliberate choice.
So yes, they are committing genocide, both de facto and de jura .... But as long as the US is using their veto power in the UN, and repeating their threats of military invasion to the ICC and the ICJ, the Israeli government is free to genocide without repurcussions.
Which is exactly why they're doing it so slow. Because if they get too much bad global PR, they might lose that protection regardless of AIPAC lobby-money.
It's exactly why they're starving Gazans and colonizing the West Bank instead of carpet bombing them.
BangBang116@reddit
Starvation is defined as a severe deficiency in calorie intake, minerals, vitamins etc. By this definitionn everyone in Gaza is severely suffering from starvation and people have died from this as well.
Ofcourse israel can't kill everybody at once, because then they would lose all world support.
gdch93@reddit
Unpopular opinion: Palestinians brought this upon themselves.
holdenmyrocinante@reddit
How would you react if someone said that the people that went to a rave 1 mile away from the largest concentration camp in history on October 7th brought this upon themselves?
You would find that comment pretty disgusting, right?
gdch93@reddit
Well, that is what I have been hearing since day 1 after the massacres and it was university professors from the most prestigious American universities.
I react accordingly. I hope Palestine is no more.
splader@reddit
At least you're being open and honest about wanting to kill 2 million people!
holdenmyrocinante@reddit
He said "Palestine" so I doubt he wants to stop at Gaza.
gdch93@reddit
2 million antisemitic terrorists*
This__is-@reddit
The only reason Israel is getting away with this is because Washington is using their veto to protect them.
Syrairc@reddit
Protect them from what? Even if the USA doesn't veto, the UN has no way to enforce anything. The USA did not veto when the UNSC resolved (2334) that West Bank settlements were illegal and violated the fourth Geneva convention, and that Israel must immediately stop. Israel, obviously, did not stop.
Obviously even though the US abstained and it passed 13-0, nothing happened. Even France who voted Yes still continues to sell weapons to Israel.
The only significant leverage the world has on Israel is arms sales, which means the only countries that truly matter are the USA and Germany.
Ornery-Concern4104@reddit
Thats a mild mistake, when it comes to arms sales, it's not Germany that matters but the EU who have an ongoing deal with both Palestine and Israel
Syrairc@reddit
I don't know how the EU works in regards to weapons exports, but Israel gets 69% from the US and 30% from Germany (specifically), and the other 1% from everyone else. German exports slowed over the last year but they claim that isn't an intentional embargo.
Ornery-Concern4104@reddit
BASICALLY, it's the EU that deals with stuff like this, Germany makes it and the EU sells it is the best way to explain how this process works
So when we're discussing disarming Israel, Germany doesn't care because it's not their responsibility, it's the responsibility of the Union that actually matters as they're the ones who allow it to happen, who deal with Israel in matters of trade and ALL the countries in the Union share joint responsibility
SelfRaisingWheat@reddit
The UNSC can authorised military action if member states argue for it and the motion passes. That's what happened to Gaddafi.
nothingpersonnelmate@reddit
That's not happening. Nobody who is capable of fighting Israel is willing to, and the outcome would be far more suffering overall, probably including for Gaza. If thousands start dying from starvation I'll be on your side there though, however slim the prospects actually are.
SelfRaisingWheat@reddit
Sure, I was only talking about the theoretical here.
loggy_sci@reddit
The UNSC would need to find countries willing and able to actually carry out the action. With Libya the UN worked with NATO and had the support of Arab League partners.
Which coalition of nations are willing to militarily enforce a ceasefire upon Israel? Keep in mind that Israel would 100% resist and fight back.
Knave7575@reddit
The UN could have sent a force to move Hezbollah out of southern Lebanon as per 1701… that did not happen. What makes you think your dream would happen?
Syrairc@reddit
I believe the UN will only send peacekeeping forces once a ceasefire is agreed upon by all parties. I don't think they can actually force a nation to do anything, even if a resolution is binding, as 2334 was.
Libya was technically a NATO operation, it wasn't conducted by UN peacekeeping forces. The chance of NATO intervening against Israel is probably lower than the chance of NATO assisting Israel in flattening Gaza.
gdch93@reddit
See why the U.S. should leave Europeans on their own? They wanr everyone to care about Ukraine, but they sre willong to let down a key ally such as Israel.
Same thing with Taiwan. Cope alone.
The-Sound_of-Silence@reddit
stop repeating this garbage The U.N. is a place to talk, and doesn't have a military of its own. The U.S. funds half the money for the U.N, hosts it on U.S. soil, and the second it has any bite, it would fall apart completely
TendieRetard@reddit (OP)
The UN literally has forces in Lebanon and has deployed them to Rwanda, the balkans, and Kuwait.
Kate090996@reddit
Literally they are not offensive, literally they are only a few thousands, literally they are mostly observers
Literally
The-Sound_of-Silence@reddit
Yes, funded largely by the U.S, volunteered by respective nations militaries - not U.N. troops. They can be withdrawn at any point by their respective countries, and are largely just observers/negotiators, not offensive elements. Are you saying the U.S. should stop funding for these groups?
TendieRetard@reddit (OP)
it's cute you think the UN wouldn't have any sign ups for an intervention w/o the US obstruction.
nothingpersonnelmate@reddit
I don't think many would be eager to send troops to fight Israel, to be honest. If it's anything like other UN missions, you'd be talking disparate groups of a few hundred to a few thousand soldiers speaking different languages and under different commanders, except now going up against an experienced and well-armed military. Think Mogadishu if the Somalians had F-35s and modern tanks. The only bodies capable of organising something with sufficient force would be the US, NATO (mostly through the US), possibly the EU, or possibly China, and none of them will do that.
wellthatexplainsalot@reddit
Downvoted not because it's false, but for impoliteness.
The-Sound_of-Silence@reddit
I don't think you are getting it, they are directly funding these interventions keeping Israel in check, and these other countries that are whinging about the U.S. obstruction are doing next to nothing. Anyone can be out there helping Gazans, and they aren't. Who built the multi hundred million dollar pier there to deliver aid to Gazans? The U.S. nobody needs a UN resolution to help.
As above, the fighting needs to cease for the security council to do anything. If anything, a claim could be made to pull them out of Lebanon, as missiles fly out towards Israel from next to these U.N. outposts there - active fighting
Fatality@reddit
Best UN moment was when Obama didn't use his veto, Israel went ballistic
ptsdstillinmymind@reddit
insert Pawn Stars meme
US Government: The BEST Thing I can is send more bombs! 🤷🏻♂️
alwaysiamdead@reddit
And more vague empty threats!
Thormeaxozarliplon@reddit
Shut up with the "starvation" garbage. Palestinians have allegedly been "starving" for a year now. How many have starved? None. There have only been a handful of malnutrition cases and only in northern Gaza where UNRWA refused to continue aid delivery, and only related to underlying congenital defects or cancer.
There has been almost 800,000 tonnes of food shipped into Gaza in the last year.
Almost 3000 kcal per day per person has been shipped in.
lizardtrench@reddit
Just look up 'doctors gaza malnutrition' to find any number of first hand accounts by doctors who have actually gone and come back from Gaza and have witnessed the malnutrition first hand.
Stubbs94@reddit
Every doctor is Khamas.
MountainTurkey@reddit
I guess all those pictures of emaciated children are fake then.
Thormeaxozarliplon@reddit
All? I've only seen a handful, and mainly only of two or three "poster children" that already had severe birth defects.
It's propaganda
Lazorgunz@reddit
U seem lost, this isnt r/worldnews
mormon_freeman@reddit
Hey this hasbara guy is still around? Remember a few months ago when you were talking about how all of those people who were murdered trying to get food from a truck deserved it?
Thormeaxozarliplon@reddit
I would never say anything like that. You are a deplorable liar.
DonnyDimello@reddit
You would claim you couldn't see the sky was blue if Bibi told you to, so I don't think you're a credible source. Your denial of genocide is a stain on your soul that won't wash out.
ScaryShadowx@reddit
Wonder if you would have said the same about the holocaust when it was happening...
putcheeseonit@reddit
I think you should visit the optometrist, buddy
Minister_for_Magic@reddit
Most based Indian redditor
Metum_Chaos@reddit
I feel like I’ve seen this one before…Something about the British?
TendieRetard@reddit (OP)
More:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GbivnxpXYAASxuW?format=jpg&name=large
https://x.com/UNLazzarini/status/1853424351330046345
Israel reduces aid trucks to 'lowest' 30 per day for 2 million Palestinians in Gaza, UN agency says
TR8R2199@reddit
Did Hamas, PIJ and local gangs stop bombing crossing and assaulting and robbing aid trucks yet?
Justavisitor-0538@reddit
I don't know about the PIJ or local gangs, but Hamas never robbed aid trucks.
https://www.refugeesinternational.org/reports-briefs/untangling-the-reality-of-famine-in-gaza/
TR8R2199@reddit
https://nypost.com/2024/10/10/world-news/hamas-steals-humanitarian-aid-trucks-from-gaza-strip/
Oh! UNRWA, staffed by Hamas members reports no crimes by Hamas. What a shocker.
Justavisitor-0538@reddit
Their source is a New York Post article from a conservative pro-Israel organisation. Not a great source.
Apart from the fact that "UNRWA is Hamas" is nothing but propaganda, the article I posted doesn't quote UNRWA, they did their own investigation and interviewed humanitarian workers. Even US officials said there was no evidence of Hamas stealing aid.
TR8R2199@reddit
Oh okay Hamas are the good guys and keeping order in their territory since they started this unwinnable war. That’s your take.
Meanwhile UNRWA employs people who are Hamas members, a recognized terrorist organization by the US. Video evidence shows stacks of aid pallets sit idle on the Israeli side while drone footage captures trucks being ransacked by armed and masked marauders. But since Israel tried to send aid to the clans who might have some semblance of a functional org to distribute its Israels fault Hamas attacks the aid. Who also doesn’t attack aid. Two things true at once in your own words
Justavisitor-0538@reddit
This is not my take. This is a straw man you have created to justify your refusal to acknowledge Refugees International's investigation.
"UNRWA is Hamas" is mostly Israeli propaganda. I suggest you look at what evidence there really is for this claim, apart from Israeli accusations.
IDF evidence should be taken with a pinch of salt. If these videos exist, how do you know it's Hamas? You said it yourself, armed gangs sometimes seize humanitarian aid.
Israel is deliberately starving Gaza. The UN is saying it. Specialists are saying it. Humanitarian organisations and workers are saying it. Journalists are saying it. Palestinians are saying it.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/surge-gaza-violence-increases-famine-risk-monitor-says-2024-10-17/
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/strong-likelihood-famine-imminent-north-gaza-say-food-security-experts-2024-11-08/
https://www.oxfamamerica.org/explore/emergencies/gaza-and-israel-emergency-appeal/one-year-of-conflict-in-gaza/
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/07/un-experts-declare-famine-has-spread-throughout-gaza-strip
Is that enough or do you want more sources ?
Hamas doesn't attack humanitarian aid, according to humanitarian workers. But you're free to believe what you like, I don't think I'm going to convince you, and you're certainly not going to convince me with straw men and a refusal to even acknowledge the source I posted.
TR8R2199@reddit
https://www.business-standard.com/amp/world-news/un-failure-reason-for-600-aid-trucks-just-sitting-at-gaza-border-israel-124102200083_1.html
Justavisitor-0538@reddit
So you ignored my entire comment and all the sources I posted to just link an article blindly quoting an Israeli government agency.
I'm tired of pointless discussions. Have a good day/night.
TR8R2199@reddit
600 trucks waiting to be picked up by useless humanitarian orgs. But your well sourced opinion pieces make that aid disappear and form government policy
TendieRetard@reddit (OP)
According to Israel Hayom, the report said: “The results of the autopsy of Yahya Sinwar’s body showed that he did not eat anything during the last 72 hours before his death.”
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20241104-autopsy-reveals-yahya-sinwar-hadnt-eaten-for-3-days-before-assassination/
TR8R2199@reddit
What exactly is your point? Should Israel be supplying aid to their enemy? Dude was on the run. You think after this whole year Hamas is still a unified coordinated effort that can move their stolen aid from one area to another?
TendieRetard@reddit (OP)
My point is the 'stolen aid' trashbara doesn't work when the top dog of the purported thieves is starving.
TR8R2199@reddit
So the broken terror org working in isolated cells wasn’t able to move aid to 1 particular individual as he was on the run in his last days while the army closed in on him and this is proof Hamas never stole aid for you?
Mrpremium123@reddit
He should’ve told his fat ass wife to save him some.
TR8R2199@reddit
lol this is the best
mormon_freeman@reddit
Did the IDF find evidence of this yet?
DonnyDimello@reddit
From wiki: "Never again" is a phrase or slogan which is associated with the lessons of the Holocaust and other genocides. The slogan was used by liberated prisoners at Buchenwald concentration camp to denounce fascism. It was popularized by Jewish Defense League founder Meir Kahane in his 1971 book, Never Again! A Program for Survival.
Tw1tcHy@reddit
Tough luck buddy, you morally depraved anti-Israel weirdos are poised to suffer another loss. I sat this election out. I can’t stand Trump, but at least he definitely won’t cave to this bullshit and won’t stop trying to force Israel to fight with one hand behind their back. If you’re tired of seeing dead kids, you should want a decisive end to this bullshit once and for all, otherwise you’re just fine prolonging the conflict hoping that one day in the future Israel finds itself in a less favorable position.
DonnyDimello@reddit
Temper, temper, my little zionist friend.
So you're advocating forced starvation and ethnic cleansing? Just want to get you on record.
Tw1tcHy@reddit
I’m cool as a cucumber my little Islamist sympathizer. Everything looks pretty peachy on my side of the fence, I don’t have much to be genuinely upset about, and I’ve been continually disgusted by your lot for the last 13 months, so nothing new there either.
I have no love for the Palestinians. They’re a barbaric culture obsessed with death and martyrdom. They reap what they’ve sown, though my heart goes out to the ~25ish percent who can see reason and are actually willing to make peace with Israel. That said, I’m not okay with forced starvation, though please do wake me when actual famine sets in and people begin dying off en masse. Been hearing about it for a year now and still waiting.
DonnyDimello@reddit
You seem pretty racist. You should get that looked at.
Tw1tcHy@reddit
You really need to try picking up a dictionary. I have no qualm with the race of the Palestinians, just their barbaric culture and beliefs. I don’t care if they’re Arab, Asian, White, Black or whatever.
DonnyDimello@reddit
Twitchy here has said this to me in the past: "I have no love for the Palestinians. They’re a barbaric culture obsessed with death and martyrdom."
Do with that what you want reader.
DonnyDimello@reddit
Nah. I got it right.
Racist noun a person who is prejudiced against or antagonistic toward people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.
Tw1tcHy@reddit
Weird, my definition shows
Racist - adjective - having, reflecting, or fostering the belief that race (see RACE entry 1 sense 1a) is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
DonnyDimello@reddit
Perhaps relying on the technicalities of one specific dictionary definition of racism as a defence for being a racist isn't a winning strategy? You do you though.
Tw1tcHy@reddit
… you say ironically as all you did was post a single specific definition to try to falsely label me a racist lmao. Sorry English is so hard for you, there’s a lot of great resources out there to improve that.
DonnyDimello@reddit
I'm sure this is a lot for you to process. I'll give you some time.
Tw1tcHy@reddit
Thanks, but it’s been quite clear to me from the get go.
actsqueeze@reddit
It’s sickeningly ironic
Tsofuable@reddit
So, is this the point we say "Literally Hitler"? Israel likes to claim it's always held at a higher standard, but the bar they set for themselves is racing to the bottom.
SowingSalt@reddit
More like the UK. They blockaded the Central Poweres during the world wars. No one complained as they were at war.
Hamas and other jihadi groups are att war with Israel.
Stubbs94@reddit
Using starvation tactics during war is never justified, and is a direct attempt to kill as many civilians as possible. It was disgusting then, and it's disgusting now.
SowingSalt@reddit
So was the blockade by the allies justified? Keep in mind that nitrates are a dual use material.
Stubbs94@reddit
During ww1? And imperialist war that had no reason to be fought other than the machinations of inbred idiots? No. Just like the blockade and starvation of Gaza has never been justified. There is no justification for intentionally starving innocent people to death.
SowingSalt@reddit
Both wars. So the Germans declaring an imperialist war makes the British blockade to kick them out of the Low Countries and France unjustified.
Thanks for marking yourself as inconsistent.
Gaza has been bombarding Israel since HAMAS took over, so Israel has the right to keep military hardware, or dual use materials out.
Stubbs94@reddit
Israel has Croissants listed as unacceptable items to enter Gaza mate.... If Hamas can make bombs from a piece of buttery pastry, Israel should just surrender, because they ain't winning against someone who can do that.
SowingSalt@reddit
Sugar is a precursor of some explosives/rocket fuel.
There are tons of videos online with examples of such use.
Stubbs94@reddit
If they can extract sugar from butter croissants to kill members of the Israeli occupation force, again you have to be impressed.
SowingSalt@reddit
Not really.
It's not difficult to injure someone. People do it on accident all the time.
Stubbs94@reddit
People kill others with croissants all the time?
SowingSalt@reddit
With dangerous materials, lack of process safety, careless errors.
There was a sugar refinery explosion in Port Wentworth, Georgia that killed 14 people.
Stubbs94@reddit
I'm talking about pre packaged croissants....
nothingpersonnelmate@reddit
It was perhaps a bit more justified against an enemy that had just conquered most of Europe, killing tens of millions in the process, and was poised to seize half the world if not stopped. In the end, as much as Germany suffered extensively, it was still far less than the suffering they inflicted on others. If WW2 had been a single-day raid into Poland that killed thousands or tens of thousands before being repulsed, followed by a year of starving Germany and bombing most of their cities into rubble, I do think we'd see that quite differently.
Tw1tcHy@reddit
Ah okay, so there are situations when it’s okay then, glad we got that sorted out. And no, I think if Germany had conducted a genocidal blitz into Poland that killed tens of thousands, I don’t think we’d see the reprisal very differently. Don’t start wars with genocidal intent, why is this so hard for people??
nothingpersonnelmate@reddit
If an Israeli settler kills a Palestinian, and is enabled by the IDF in doing so rather than successfully prosecuted by Israel, do you believe this justifies the destruction of the entire of Israel as a country? Given that by your logic something being a thousand times smaller in scale has no bearing on the severity of the crime, and so presumably you consider this roughly equivalent to Oct 7th, which you do believe justifies the destruction of most of Gaza.
Tw1tcHy@reddit
What? Where exactly are you gleaning all of that from my logic?
nothingpersonnelmate@reddit
You consider killing thousands or tens of thousands of people (the hypothetical equivalent of Oct 7th in the context of WW2) to be equally deserving of the destruction of a nation as killing tens of millions of people (what the Nazis actually did). Ergo a factor of a thousand doesn't change what response you believe is justified. So Israeli terrorists killing one Palestinian, to you, justifies the destruction of an entire country just as much as Hamas killing a thousand people would. Your position is either inconsistent and you actually do think killing one person is a less severe crime than killing a thousand, or alternatively, you support Israel being destroyed over the actions of terrorist settlers.
Tw1tcHy@reddit
Ohhh okay, I see what you mean now. Lol no. You can’t extrapolate that a factor of 1,000 doesn’t change the response from what I said. All I’m saying is that 10,000 is well above the threshold that deserves such a response. My country toppled Afghanistan over 1/3 of the amount, and it was justified. There’s nothing inconsistent at all. A few people killing a few people = not worthy of massive reprisal. Thousands of people killing thousands = clear and convincing evidence of a much larger problem, time to take the kiddie gloves off.
nothingpersonnelmate@reddit
Why? You've already explained that the number of people killed has no connection to the severity of the crime or the justified response. Why is this no longer true when considering Israel's crimes? Why are you so willing to wave away Israel's unprovoked aggression as irrelevant based on numbers of victims, when we've already established that the number of victims doesn't matter?
At the same time, why are you so willing to assume that Israel are exclusively going after military targets with their bombing campaign when it's been clearly established they're committing other systematic war crimes like torture and use of human shields? It just seems irrational to give them this benefit of the doubt considering their conduct.
Tw1tcHy@reddit
What lmao?? No I didn’t. The number of people killed absolutely has a connection to the severity of a crime. 1,000 people killed is worse than 1 person killed, or even 10 people killed.
Unprovoked aggression lmao!! Yeah, 10/7 totally wasn’t an all out provocation, nothing to see here.
Because the death toll in Gaza would be far, FAR higher if Israel were being indiscriminate or actively making a point to target civilians. Do I think Israel is playing it a bit fast and loose in choosing what’s acceptable to target and what’s not? Sure. But the death tolls cited, which come from the terrorists themselves, do not signify that whatsoever, especially when taking into account nearly half of them are Hamas fighters. It seems irrational to look at the numbers and draw the conclusion this is a genocide and civilians are targeted the same way Hamas is.
nothingpersonnelmate@reddit
I'm glad we can agree that the numbers actually do matter then, as opposed to your previous suggestions that they're irrelevant.
I was referring to the settler attacks and outright pogroms in the West Bank, which have indeed killed Palestinians, and which the IDF often show up in support of, or sit around doing nothing about, despite their obligation under international law to prevent them.
A mass murderer could very easily make a decision not to kill a particular person, despite having the option. This wouldn't exonerate them of any other crime nor prove their intent anywhere else.
If even just 5% of what they're doing is unnecessary and killing civilians, it would amount to more than the civilians killed by Hamas on Oct 7th. Would that then justify the destruction of Israel, meeting the arbitrary and convenient threshold you've decided not to specify?
It would be irrational to assume that 100% of missiles fired by Israel are for the sole purpose of achieving maximum possible civilian casualties, because yes, the deaths would be higher. Given the systematic war crimes committed by the IDF it's very rational to assume some amount of them are fired with absolutely no regard for civilian casualties, and that some are even fired in active malice by the non-negligible proportion of Israelis who consider all Gazans responsible, those who believe there are no innocent civilians. There are Israeli cabinet ministers who have openly called for genocide and ethnic cleansing.
Tw1tcHy@reddit
Yeah I never suggested that lol.
Okay? Not sure how that correlates to Israel and Gaza. I realize you’re trying to make a comparison somehow, but it’s quite vague.
Nope, because it entirely ignores the relevant context. 10/7 was an unprovoked attack, everything after is a response to that intense aggression.
Yeah, that’s pretty much what I said earlier with Israel playing fast and loose at times with their target selection. It’s hard to argue that there are many innocent civilians in Palestine when Israelis watched them cheer and dance in the streets on 10/7, all while desecrating the dead bodies of innocent Israeli men and women being dragged through the streets of Gaza. It was pure, unadulterated barbarity on display, and the world has basically ignored it. Even pro-Palestinian people do everything they can to avoid talking about that. As far as the cabinet ministers you’re referring to, is there anyone else besides Ben-Gvir and Smotrich that you’re referring to?
nothingpersonnelmate@reddit
I'm going to assume you've misunderstood this point - the 5% refers to a proportion of civilians being unnecessarily killed, as in, not predictable collateral damage of legitimate strikes against clearly identified military targets, but bombing targets they never needed to bomb, or shooting without identifying the target at all. Presumably you don't consider it OK to kill those civilians without justification in that way because you'd have to be pretty much ontologically evil to think that. Though you have waved away systematic war crimes by the IDF so I suppose anything's possible.
Ah, the death penalty for doing a dance, jesus fucking christ. By the way, is there a link to the video showing 2.3 million Gazans dancing in the street over the Oct 7th massacre?
It was condemned by most of the world. It was a horrific massacre with no possible justification.
Oh, aside from the minister of finance and the minister of national security who had a fr? Yeah, the minister of cultural heritage suggested outright nuking Gaza.
Tw1tcHy@reddit
Guess I did. I thought you meant civilians that ended up being killed as collateral damage that could have been avoidable. Going by your definition, I don’t see it rational basis for it.
Ah yes, it was only a dance, definitely not more than that, let’s just ignore the desecration of dead Israeli corpses lmao. And even if it was just a dance, what kind of civil society worth standing up for does that? You’d never see an innocent Palestinian woman dragged through the streets of Tel Aviv while Israelis cheered and beat her dead body. Both sides are operating under fundamentally different planes of morality.
I’m not talking about the attack itself, I’m talking about the civilian participation and celebration afterwards. No one said shit about it.
Ah okay, so no one who has actual authority within the IDF and the war itself, just some fucking far-right freaks. In fact, when the heritage minister made the statement (in which the interviewer prompted him about nuking and he said “Yeah that’s one way, but the other is…”) he was reprimanded and suspended by Netanyahu.
nothingpersonnelmate@reddit
Did you know that they were forcing civilians to check buildings for traps as a widespread practice before it was revealed in multiple investigations? Did you know about the extent of torture in Israeli prisons before that was revealed?
Worth standing up for? I don't see things this way at all. Innocent civilians are always worth standing up for. Nobody deserves to die because there are unpleasant views in their society. Israel has plenty of its own unpleasant views that lead to shit like price tag attacks, full on pogroms of West Bank towns, the mockery and gleeful destruction of Palestinian homes you see from troops in Gaza, the fact they've got a literal terrorist as their finance minister, the people trying to block aid trucks to Gaza, the kids who were mocking starving Palestinians by pouring water on the ground outside the gates etc. You even had that horrific thing with the wedding where they were mocking a dead baby burned in an arson attack by a settler. Oh, and even more recently you had surveys showing most Israelis don't think the guards who were caught on video raping a prisoner in Sde Teiman should face criminal charges. It's horrific, and yet it changes precisely nothing about whether random Israeli civilians deserve to die - they don't, at all, including the ones with extremely objectionable views.
What would they say?
Israel was founded with this kind of violence, and with barbaric terrorism. Did the Israel of the time deserve to be completely destroyed as a society for it?
Even making this assumption that 100% of politicians who feel this way have also publicly expressed it - why don't you think members of the Israeli government have any influence over the Israeli government?
Tw1tcHy@reddit
Yup, it’s definitely wrong, deserves to be condemned, but also definitely not genocide.
No, not all civilians lives are worth the trouble of saving. Fuck that, sorry. I choose to spend my finite resources, time and energy on more worthwhile causes. Fuck the Israeli settlers and their extremism too, I would be completely unbothered if they were dropped into the middle of the West Bank, unarmed and left to fend for themselves. They’d get what’s coming to them too for their extremism and barbarity. I’m not going to stick up for them just because they’re Israeli. All of the extremists can rot in hell and die an agonizing death, I literally do not care and I’m not going to say they’re lives need to be defended or spared just by virtue of being civilians, that’s ridiculous logic. You want war and violence? Congratulations, here’s your war and violence.
Beats me, apparently it’s easy to criticize and condemn Israeli extremist civilians, but but much harder to acknowledge the extremism rampant throughout Palestinian society to a degree even higher than Israel’s.
The IDF is not the Israeli government. Smotrich and Ben-Gvir do not have any authority whatsoever within the IDF and are not even part of the war cabinet. One is a finance minister and the other is in charge of domestic security, more like the overseer of the Israeli police, prisons, firefighters etc. I would also say most Israeli politicians aren’t shy about their views, to their own detriment. It’s kind of an issue with Israelis in general, they’re very direct and the ethos throughout the whole system isn’t about winning friends, it’s about being effective in war and being feared. It’s something they really, really need to work on. Exceptions exist everywhere, but I would say as far as Knesset politicians go, generally what you see and hear from them is what you get.
nothingpersonnelmate@reddit
I'm not asking if you know now. I'm asking if you already knew about it before it was revealed by various investigations, to get you to think about how good you actually are at interpreting Israeli conduct. Doesn't matter now that you've explained you don't actually care.
Fucking hell.
The idea that the Israeli government doesn't have any influence over the Israeli military is frankly a bit too ridiculous to engage with.
You're talking about three quarters of a million people being killed here. That's utterly horrific. I think maybe we differ because I think it's bad to kill large numbers of innocent people, and you don't think it's bad to kill large numbers of innocent people so long as there are extremists among them, and these positions are probably too far apart to reconcile. I hope someday you change and start thinking of life as having value regardless of where it is born. I'm going to block you because I'd rather pretend your views aren't as common as they are.
this_dudeagain@reddit
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Sieges_involving_Ireland
Proper_Razzmatazz_36@reddit
How exactly is this "literally hitler"?
Minister_for_Magic@reddit
Gaza is a concentration camp. Israel controls any access out. Starving people to death is more cruel and protracted but just as effective as gassing and shooting.
Israel is VERY CLEARLY killing off Palestinians. Hell, multiple senior administration members have all but said the words "lebensraum" and "vermin" to describe their reasons for clearing Gaza entirely
Proper_Razzmatazz_36@reddit
The doesn't make it "literally hitler" however. Also Israel doesn't control all access considering gaza also borders Egypt
Kate090996@reddit
But Israel controls that crossing too, it is joint control
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
Neigh, Hitler, still did worse. They did things out of pure feeling of superiority.
As for the others, the concept of superiority is used as a facade to keep up their fake image.
Putin, Stalin, Khamenei, Assad, Saddam, some other leaders I dont know level, sure. - Got too high on their power that they treat even their own people as chess pieces.
mwa12345@reddit
You should see the "chosen people " BS spread by some in the zuo parties
HamunaHamunaHamuna@reddit
I mean, Israel was created and is ruled by people who belive they and only they, in an ethnic sense, are the omnipotent and infallible God's chosen people.
worldm21@reddit
Yup - ethnic nationalism, expansionary invasion, global campaign of censorship, information control, cultural exclusion and appropriation, and spreading racist stereotypes. Only thing that's not there yet is the numbers - but what are we going to do, wait for them to multiply until they're on par?
CaveRanger@reddit
It's been 'literally hitler' for a while now. Israel's actions in Gaza bear a pretty strong resemblance to Generalplan Ost, the Nazi plan to depopulate Eastern Europe.
rowida_00@reddit
When they are extended a sense of impunity to commit whatever crimes they’d like, at whatever scale they choose, with no repercussions whatsoever to hold them accountable for their comprehensive assault on international law and norms, the end result would be this genocidal rouge state protected by a super power and strong western allies.
this_dudeagain@reddit
As opposed to terrorist groups supported by Iran?
rowida_00@reddit
As opposed to people who are living under a brutal and decades long military occupation that is deemed illegal and unlawful by the ICJ? This might come to you as a surprise, but Israel’s occupation predates Hamas’ own creation in 1987 by decades.
this_dudeagain@reddit
You mean all the land conquered by Israel after the war in '67? Israel isn't a part of the ICC.
rowida_00@reddit
I said the ICJ (the International Court of Justice) the judicial organ of the UN which Israel is a member state of, not the ICC (International Criminal Court. It’s what international law stipulates. I mean the territories Israel is illegally occupying.
TR8R2199@reddit
Rogue would imply they were without allies. Good thing their allies, despite being unhappy with their approach, still recognize the need to supply weapons to fight off the terrorist armies that encircle them
Stubbs94@reddit
Imagine saying something this psychotic on a thread about how Israel is starving people to death.
TR8R2199@reddit
You’d think now would be a good time for Hamas to surrender eh?
Stubbs94@reddit
Ewwwww imagine supporting people intentionally starving children to death.
TR8R2199@reddit
I know right? Hamas is so awful for doing this to their people
rowida_00@reddit
It is becoming more isolated as their genocidal campaign continues.
911roofer@reddit
First rule about being an aid organization is never annoy the warlords. UNRWA spent too much time sucking off Hamas and not enough time fellating Israel because they took Israel support for granted. Then October 7th happened and several UNRWA were caught raiding and raping. Now they’re shit out of luck because they thought democratic nations actually operated by different rules than warlords and wouldn’t throw an aid agency out for collaborating with the enemy.
Thufir_My_Hawat@reddit
Did anything ever come of that Hamas commander that allegedly worked for UNRWA getting killed? Feels like they'd be referencing that as justification for this, but I'm not seeing anything at a cursory glance.
TendieRetard@reddit (OP)
Despite History of Fabrication, Press Uncritically Covers IDF-Provided Documents on Hamas
Thufir_My_Hawat@reddit
I'm afraid I don't see anything about UNRWA in this -- am I missing it?
TendieRetard@reddit (OP)
Yes, you're missing that Israel lies all the time, about everything.
Thufir_My_Hawat@reddit
Are you implying Hamas only tells the truth?
TendieRetard@reddit (OP)
Despite what Isarel would have you believe, UNRWA is not Hamas. it's the UN, as in the literal world reps.
Thufir_My_Hawat@reddit
I haven't seen an UNRWA statement regarding this?
TendieRetard@reddit (OP)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GbivnxpXYAASxuW?format=jpg&name=large
Thufir_My_Hawat@reddit
I'm sorry, I meant in regards to the killing of the Hamas commander allegedly under their employ
jadsf5@reddit
If I call you a murderer it's on me to prove you're a murderer.
UNRWA doesn't need to prove he's not Hamas mate, Israel needs to prove he is.
Thufir_My_Hawat@reddit
As pointed out above, Israel isn't known for being especially honest. But if UNRWA isn't rebutting the accusation, it seems a bit more credible.
Dramatical45@reddit
Bit hard for UNRWA to prove one way or the other if the man is dead though
Tooterfish42@reddit
When you have to remind everyone constantly how "fair" you are
Snoo66769@reddit
I mean he literally shared and made pro Hamas posts on social media, I believe there are photos of him getting an award or something from Hamas and also his name is included in Hamas lists of their members… crazy how little evidence you demand off of Hamas, but reject any evidence that goes against them
cesaroncalves@reddit
Some people will deny it's a war of extermination until the very end.
redditing_away@reddit
Ethnic cleansing maybe but not extermination. That's a whole different category.
cesaroncalves@reddit
Some want extermination, some just want them gone, depends on who get's the top chair, and if the world allows them.
They have in fact tried more extreme measures, public opinion is the only thing that stayed their hands, if they didn't need outside support, public opinion would not matter.
redditing_away@reddit
Stayed their hands to do what?
Israel could've gotten rid of the Palestinians in both Gaza and the West Bank for decades if they so wished, one way or the other. Especially since 24/7 coverage wasn't a thing back then and most of the world would've learned of it as a side note if at all. If they even cared about it in the first place.
Trying to argue that Israel is the ultimate evil and hellbent on "extermination" when they could've done so already multiple times but never did and never even had the intention simply doesn't cut it.
Criticize Israel all you want, be my guest, but blunt overexaggeration and hyperbole is not helpful for anyone.
cesaroncalves@reddit
Mass starvation for example.
They tried, more than once. It's not in their ability.
That would be true, if they had not already tried to do it.
When someone tells you who they are, you should believe them.
redditing_away@reddit
They've flattened most of Gaza with killing only a fraction of its population. It's very much within their capabilities if they were eager to do it and we'd see much higher fatality rates.
Or simply cut off their water since they get almost all of it from Israel.
They didn't though, otherwise they would've succeeded if they were inclined to do so.
Yeah if every fringe opinion were representing their country we'd live in very sad times. Thankfully that's not the way it is.
Killeroftanks@reddit
killing a fraction? youre not relying on the confirmed deaths are you? because that number is already misleading thanks to israel, but also heavily outdated due to israel more or less killing and destroying the medical system in gaza preventing any bodies from being confirmed, the likely death toll is ranging from 300k to 500k. or 1/8s to 1/4s of gaza population being dead. thats a massive fucking percentage.
the nakba should be viewed as a genocide/extermination. after all the whole goal of that move from israel was to purge all palestinians out of the area. just that they were expecting to win more land at the beginning.
Dramatical45@reddit
The Nakba was ethnic cleansing, which is often a part of genocide. Both are crimes against humanity.
nothingpersonnelmate@reddit
The total number may well be far higher than the reported numbers in the long run, particularly with the same approach of counting as from Iraq where the vast majority of deaths came from instability and deprivation over the following decade, rather than direct killing by coalition forces. Even so, I don't think anyone believes this to be the true figure. That's ridiculous.
nothingpersonnelmate@reddit
That sounds like exactly how you might try to drive out the population without it being clearly your purpose - render the Gaza Strip uninhabitable by hitting most of it including most civilian infrastructure with missiles, and scattering thousands of exploded bombs everywhere, then hampering aid efforts to make it impossible to recover. As you said it's ethnic cleansing moreso than genocide, but one of the definitions of genocide used in other cases like Myanmar includes rendering "conditions incompatible with life".
The "fringe" opinions do seem to account for an alarming number of politicians and cabinet ministers though. Their finance minister - a man who previously tried to carry out a terrorist attack himself - recently complained that the world wasn't allowing them to starve Gaza to death. Their national security minister - a man who had a framed picture on his wall of a terrorist who massacred Palestinian civilians - has been calling for "re-settling" Gaza. Their cultural heritage minister suggested nuking Gaza. And it's probably fair to assume that not everyone sharing that view is expressing it publicly. I don't think it's sensible to assume the extreme opinions in Israel aren't influencing their policy at this point.
Several_Cycle_2012@reddit
Just seeing your flag, I knew you’d have great opinions on genocide.
redditing_away@reddit
Uh ok?
But genocide is a serious topic and accusation and not to be thrown around lightly. Hyperbole won't help with it.
Ageati@reddit
What would you call Srebrenica?
ycnz@reddit
The first time Germans supported it, they didn't start with the zyklon-b either.
BrodaReloaded@reddit
Israeli holocaust scientist Bartov has come to the conclusion that Israel aims to annihilate the people of Gaza as a whole
https://www.srf.ch/news/international/nahost/vorwurf-des-genozids-israel-will-gazastreifen-fuer-palaestinenser-unbewohnbar-machen
Several_Cycle_2012@reddit
David lammy? Surprised to see you here.
“Ah, it’s such a serious accusation, bla bla bla”
Instead of doing whatever you’re trying to do, explain how it’s not a genocide.
https://x.com/alonso_gd/status/1853395706213449937?s=46
redditing_away@reddit
I have no idea who that is.
I've got nothing to explain or justify here. I'll wait till the ICJ comes to a verdict, they're the experts not me.
Genocide is a serious accusation given the historical context, so simply calling every war or war crime as such is a disservice and ignorant of history.
Several_Cycle_2012@reddit
Zionists and being unable to use google. Name a more common duo
Shameful.
Who the hell is calling every war or warcrime genocide? Truly disgusting. You’re asked to defend your claim and you run away and make shit up to defend your stance.
Zipz@reddit
Was oct 7th a genocide ?
redditing_away@reddit
People like you who are only confrontational without even considering other opinions. I could google but I'm neither interested in doing so nor discussing with you. I simply can't be bothered right now.
Far too many in this subreddit alone and along came you who made it about a supposed genocide. As if calling it extermination isn't already ridiculous?! Sharing a random twitter link with some nice headlines is also not as compelling an argument as you might think it is.
Again, I'm not interested in debating with you. So I'm not running away nor have to defend anything. I'm just not wasting my time with people like you who are only in for the confrontation. Go bark at another tree.
MountainTurkey@reddit
Both are genocide
Airowird@reddit
That's like trying to argue you're a hebephile, and totally not a pedophile.
It's definitely in the same fucking category
bandaidsplus@reddit
They are on in the same. Somehow we were able to clearly define this and intervene in the case of the Bosnian genocide during the collapse of Yugoslavia but now we have become dead, dumb and blind in the case of ISR.
Tooterfish42@reddit
I love the Arab world but they are absolutely in no danger of extinction they are happily thriving
Minister_for_Magic@reddit
Ah yes, pretend to be too dumb to know the difference between Palestinians and the Arab world. Palestinians are a Semitic people.
Rock4evur@reddit
Who’s in danger of extinction?
TendieRetard@reddit (OP)
More:
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/israel-reduces-aid-trucks-to-lowest-30-per-day-for-2-million-palestinians-in-gaza-un-agency-says/3384020
CastleElsinore@reddit
Why not post am actually reliable source?
🚛101 humanitarian aid trucks entered Gaza via the Kerem Shalom and Erez crossings.
🛻50 trucks were collected from the Gazan side of Kerem Shalom by international organizations. Approx. 575 trucks worth of aid are waiting for collection.
⛽️6 tankers of cooking gas designated for the operation of essential infrastructure were transferred into Gaza.
9️⃣6️⃣ A convoy of 27 trucks entered Gaza directly through Gate 96.
🥖12 bakeries are operational in Gaza, 4 bakeries in northern Gaza, and 8 bakeries southern and central Gaza, producing close to 3 million pita loaves a day.
https://x.com/cogatonline/status/1853739550423629895?t=1R6hZ3qyCE9pFcIOpQmwKA&s=19
rowida_00@reddit
Proceeds to quote a random twitter page from Israel.
CastleElsinore@reddit
Quotes the governing body that counts the trucks entering gaza
It's literally the official source
https://gaza-aid-data.gov.il/main/
rowida_00@reddit
Oh! Israel says? Well the irony is astounding. It would be funny if it weren’t sad.
CastleElsinore@reddit
When Israel investigates and finds it does something wrong:
"See, even israel thinks it's bad!"
When theu are doing something good, like polio vaccinations
"They are only doing to to look better and are self serving"
When there is a literal government source that contradicts the israel bad narrative
"Those lying joos"
Well. At least you are consistent.
rowida_00@reddit
Where did I quote a report published by Israel where they’ve admitted wrongdoings?
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
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Assassinduck@reddit
The same people who investigate Israel inside of Israel, and find wrongdoing, are never from state orgs, only third-party, because of course, Israel wouldn't investigate itself and find fault. Come on.
They caused the polio outbreak. They don't get points for stopping the outbreak they fucking caused.
And yes, they only do "good things" to be self serving. We are talking about the dog that's barking up the USs leg constantly to get more aid.
It's got nothing to do with Jews even though you'd love to be able to use that card forever. It's got something to do with a very obviously dishonest fascist government, who has lied so many times during this genocide, it's uncountable.
CastleElsinore@reddit
Israel found fault for the three murdered hostages - because they are at fault.
There were massive protests the last time bibi tried to fore Gallant, and I'm sure it will happen again now that he did it again.
Leaking classified documents
The WCK screw up (which Australia then went in as a third party and verified the findings)
Al-Ahli hospital: ended up being a PIJ rocket, verified by WaPo and AJ
Reports of rape of Palestinians in Israeli jails: guards were arrested, and are awaiting trial.
At no point (and you can check all 11 years of my comment history) have I said that you can't criticize the Israeli government or that they are beyond reproach. I do think it's an insane double standard to say Israel is the only country that deserves to be destroyed over its failings
rattleandhum@reddit
That should tell us everything we need to know without any spin
CastleElsinore@reddit
There is no spin. It's raw data.
rattleandhum@reddit
lmao
Tooterfish42@reddit
If it's random why are you dismissing it based on them being jewish?
rowida_00@reddit
Well it is indeed a random twitter page that takes its information from the Israeli government. I mean what else is there to be said about its credibility.
Tooterfish42@reddit
Without providing an alternative or contradictory source this is just well poisoning
rowida_00@reddit
They were the ones who used that source as a “reliable source” in an effort to dismiss OP’s source as unreliable. So the only one who should follow through with their claim is them, not me. “Israel claims” is not reliable. The ones imposing a starvation policy are not reliable. Do you know what reliability means?
Tooterfish42@reddit
To you it means non-Jewish
"They're so sneaky and tricky! You must grab them by their horns"
TendieRetard@reddit (OP)
https://x.com/UNLazzarini/status/1853424351330046345
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GbivnxpXYAASxuW?format=jpg&name=large
Thormeaxozarliplon@reddit
Do you have actual evidence that COGAT numbers are wrong?
Provide evidence or shut up
DonnyDimello@reddit
You know COGAT is biased because they're an Israeli organization. If you have been paying attention pretty much everything they say is a lie. Just look at their sayings:
"A land without a people for a people without a land" - in actuality they displaced 750000 people on founding.
"Most moral army" - using live ammunition on unarmed civilians, killing their own hostages calling for help in hebrew, blowing up aid convoys, forced starvation.
Thormeaxozarliplon@reddit
None of this is evidence that COGAT is lying
DonnyDimello@reddit
It's evidence that Israel organizations lie frequently. COGAT is an Israeli organization.
TendieRetard@reddit (OP)
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-bans-at-least-six-medical-aid-missions-entering-gaza
CastleElsinore@reddit
middle east eye is your idea of a reliable source?
cogat is literally the government body that counts the aid trucks
https://gaza-aid-data.gov.il/main/
Its first hand info
TendieRetard@reddit (OP)
yeah, no shit
Ropetrick6@reddit
Your source is a random twitter post, I don't think you're really in a position to argue about what's reliable.
mehliana@reddit
super weird of you to post the AP article which doesn't corroborate your claim and then post a separate article from a middle eastern source, that simply says that this is what UNWRA claimed with no evidence.
Zipz@reddit
That’s his whole thing though.
He will post an article with decent information and a source on the sub and then in the comments put a much sketcher article.
Tangata_Tunguska@reddit
Kinda sucks that this sub doesn't prevent people from editorialising headlines
TendieRetard@reddit (OP)
https://x.com/UNLazzarini/status/1853424351330046345
mehliana@reddit
yes I get it, I read your other article too. The glaring issue is that if UNRWA is compromised in terms of assisting terrorists, which they have all but proven to be, then we cannot trust their testimony. AP did not corroborate any of the important claims here.
Antique_Cricket_4087@reddit
Except it hasn't been proven. So spare us.
Tooterfish42@reddit
16 Western countries have had to suspend funding to the them because why? Spare us
Antique_Cricket_4087@reddit
Because Israel claimed they were. Then Israel failed to provide proof and the countries resumed funding.
So spare us the dishonest bullshit.
Tooterfish42@reddit
That you lost the receipts to as well? Or do you just not know how to quote someone? My guess is both 🤭
Antique_Cricket_4087@reddit
Yawn
And here's the US joining the rest
It would take you 2 seconds to find even more sources.
Lol receipts, where are your receipts, son...
rattleandhum@reddit
If I'm not mistaken, all of them except the US have resumed funding.
Because of a lack of evidence from Israel.
TendieRetard@reddit (OP)
which they resumed. This move by Israel has been condemned by most if not all of the western allies.
TendieRetard@reddit (OP)
I'm pretty sure we've all familiar w/that Israeli trashbara bro.
Despite History of Fabrication, Press Uncritically Covers IDF-Provided Documents on Hamas
Latter_Security9389@reddit
It's against the community rules to change titles of the article but that's the whole thing with this movement, they think they can do anything for this cause.
mehliana@reddit
All they have is lies and projection. So tragic for the actual victims of this war.
Tooterfish42@reddit
Justifying the Taliban, Trump and the worst acts humanity can conceive of for their "cause"
And that's just in the last 24 hours
Tooterfish42@reddit
Muddying the waters is par for the tendies course
manhattanabe@reddit
UNRWA has been lying about the food entering Gaza since day one. They only report trucks handled by them to the UN, ignoring all the other trucks entering Gaza. In addition, the 30 trucks per day is the number for Northern Gaza, not all of Gaza.
TendieRetard@reddit (OP)
https://fair.org/home/despite-history-of-fabrication-press-uncritically-covers-idf-provided-documents-on-hamas/
banjosuicide@reddit
Israel: Well, intentionally and openly bombing aid truck after aid truck didn't seem to work. I guess we'll just have to officially announce we're intending to starve civilians.
Not a good look. Hamas are terrorists, so I never had any expectations they'd behave well. Israel, on the other hand, I expected better from. They can be better if they choose to.
ramiro-cantu@reddit
30 days ago the Biden administration said that they limits on aid would cease weapon sales to Israel.
Just like Biden’s red line I don’t expect the us to stop. It’d be better if Biden just parroted the Israeli gov at this point, he looks so weak.
mrgoobster@reddit
That is unfortunately the norm for American politics: Democrats are spineless and Republicans are delusional.
Pixel_Block_2077@reddit
Yeah, but I guess we're just surprised with how severe Biden's cowardice is...
Like...at this point, Israel is actively insulting the guy. Every single proposal and public statement Biden makes, Israel contradicts him. Even when Biden caved and created a ceasefire deal heavily favoring Israel, Netenyahu stalled the deal and then dropped it.
The US president is supposed to be a pillar of authority...and for lack of a better word...Biden is Netenyahu's cuckhold.
mrgoobster@reddit
There's no question that the conservative government in Israel would prefer a second Trump presidency. It seems likely that a lot of Israel's recent choices have been calculated with the election in mind.
Relative_Business_81@reddit
Well said. I just love all of the idiots who think Trump will stop this. No, Trump will exacerbate this. Democrats will just keep the same terrible status quo.
Tooterfish42@reddit
So the only possible outcome you see is one where you're right and the POTUS is involved in some conspiracy involving Jews?
UNRWA is exempt from any grading?
And LA Times? lol the one who's billionaire owner forbade from endorsing Kamala?
mwa12345@reddit
World news...that bastion ! Sure!
Several_Cycle_2012@reddit
“Conspiracy”?
Fucking Christ.
Tooterfish42@reddit
r/JoeRogan poster doesn't like the word "conspiracy"
Several_Cycle_2012@reddit
You are throwing the word around to dispel an accusation that has been substantiated by the past 13 months.
I rarely see even die hard zionists claim Palestinians in Gaza aren’t starving and aid isn’t being cut off.
Aid is at its lowest point since the beginning of the war. How many organizations have said israel has been cutting off aid/starving Palestinians for months? How many prominent Israel officials have talked about cutting off aid to Palestinians? Jesus
Even the USA government is complaining about Israel cutting off aid.
When you are shilling Israel even harder than the United States government, you need to settle down.
Levitz@reddit
First line is literally making shit up, the rest is unrelated stuff. Bravo. Stop posting anytime
Tooterfish42@reddit
Not a conspiracy guys!
ramiro-cantu@reddit
Habibi it’s an honor to be banned on world news
hectorgarabit@reddit
This was just a plot get some people angry at the way they dealt with Gaza to vote for them, rather than Jill Stein. They could have put the deadline at 2 weeks, before the election. It was blackmail; vote for me or more Gazan will die.
Justavisitor-0538@reddit
Some informations about the man-made famine in Gaza :
According to a group of 99 american healthcare workers who have served in the gaza strip, 62 000 could have already died from starvation and its complications.
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/66e083452b3cbf4bbd719aa2/t/66fcd754b472610b6335d66f/1727846228615/Appendix+20241002.pdf
Most people in Gaza are facing starvation because of Israel's blockade of humanitarian aid and destruction of food sources. Despite what some people spreading Israeli propaganda say, the UN and every humanitarian organisation working in Gaza say that Gaza is currently on the brink of famine and that most Palestinians are currently facing malnutrition and potential starvation.
https://www.propublica.org/article/gaza-palestine-israel-blocked-humanitarian-aid-blinken
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/07/un-experts-declare-famine-has-spread-throughout-gaza-strip
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gaza-humanitarian-crisis-could-develop-into-famine-wfp-says-2024-10-29/
https://www.barrons.com/amp/news/north-gaza-situation-apocalyptic-un-agency-chiefs-53d4951f#
https://www.ipcinfo.org/fileadmin/user_upload/ipcinfo/docs/IPC_Famine_Review_Committee_Report_Gaza_June2024.pdf
https://www.nrc.no/news/2024/september/israels-siege-now-blocks-83-of-food-aid-reaching-gaza-new-data-reveals/#:\~:text=83%25%20of%20required%20food%20aid,the%20end%20of%20the%20year.
Israel's claim that Hamas is stealing aid and everything else is completely baseless.
https://www.refugeesinternational.org/reports-briefs/untangling-the-reality-of-famine-in-gaza/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip_famine#Emergency_and_threat_of_famine
The situation is dramatic.
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Behrooz0@reddit
Isn't 30 trucks still 390g per person/day at 26(low estimate) metric tonnes/day?
500 trucks is 6500g per person/day. Considering that's more than what average human beings consume by a factor of 3 I'm sure Hamas has enough stored away to feed everyone for the next, let me do the math, 2 years.
People here be acting like 30 trucks is nothing.
HeathrJarrod@reddit
The US did warn them to increase aid about a week ago, right? They were WARNED. Now they’re trying this kind of stunt, and will likely get away with it too.
BlueFrozen@reddit
UNRWA already is a known terrorist organization, with many members in ties with Hamas or simply doing acts of terror funded by the naive UN. UNRWA is not a third party organization, the people that de facto working there are gazans.
Letting aid truck that Hamas raids all the time to resell them for a ridiculous price for the gazans and let their own people starve only to make a profit of it.
It was a good move, the UN needs to shift its direction from "enter more aid" to "how to assure the aid gets to the gazans".
But they are naive, pressuring Israel to crave in into this and then cry when Israel kills the same hidden cache of aid that Hamas kept under civilian homes.
Garet-Jax@reddit
Basic claim in title is false
from the same source:
TendieRetard@reddit (OP)
.gov.il
sane source
pick one
UnfortunateHabits@reddit
And yet, like the millionth genocide genocide starvation starvation wolf cries, In one month from now, there won't be any huge spike in death or starvation.
Because UN UNHCR or any other of the gazillion other options could and would feel the gap.
The aid budgets will flow, just not through UNRWA.
This__is-@reddit
Matthew Goebbels' response to starving children is to making a joke about it.
Democrats virtue signal about human rights at home while giving unlimited support to the most unhinged, religious right-wing government that's hellbent on torturing children and bombing them.
empleadoEstatalBot@reddit
empleadoEstatalBot@reddit
empleadoEstatalBot@reddit
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coverageanalysisbot@reddit
Hi empleadoEstatalBot,
We've found 140 sources (so far) that are covering this story including:
NBC News (Leans Left): "Israel officially informs U.N. of end to relations with Palestinian relief agency"
The Times of Israel (Center): "Israel informs UN that 1967 agreement recognizing UNRWA is void"
WIN (Right): "Israel cancels agreement recognizing UNRWA"
Of all the sources reporting on this story, 36% are right-leaning, 41% are left-leaning, and 23% are in the center. Read the full coverage analysis and compare how 140+ sources from across the political spectrum are covering this story.
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