Ford to Slash Manager Bonuses by 65% if Things Don’t Improve: Report
Posted by e___r___s@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 149 comments
Posted by e___r___s@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 149 comments
proscriptus@reddit
I had close friends who have worked in Ford middle and upper management, and it is an utter shit show. You can lower bonuses all you want but until you actually fire toxic and incompetent managers, things are not going to improve for Ford.
bakedvoltage@reddit
upper management refuses to take any amount of responsibility for these shortcomings too
JoseCansecoMilkshake@reddit
As a production employee, your friend are correct
TurboFucked@reddit
Yet, people will continue to blame the unions.
These are the same folks that gave us the Mustang Mach E.
land8844@reddit
And that's somehow....bad?
Musclecar123@reddit
The fall on effect of poor management is exponential. It’s evident Ford has had a problem for a long time. There are things being approved for production that are really hindering reliability, like their open deck ecoboost engines.
They also made dealers eat an enormous EV fast charge installation package for the right to sell electric Fords. Then those same cars ended up being absolute turds. I’m hesitant to defend dealers after their practices in the last few years, but they got the raw end of the stick there.
Ultimately, I’ll never own another Ford because of my experience owning Fords.
JC-Dude@reddit
Why would they get a bonus at all if things are shit? Isn’t the point of a bonus to reward work that yields good results?
falcon0159@reddit
Because things aren't shit. The company is still pretty profitable. They reported EPS of 49 cents last quarter...on a $11 stock. While things could be better, they are far from bad.
PRSArchon@reddit
Their net profit is only 2%. Ford would be significantly more profitable if they stopped producing cars and invested all their money in an all world ETF. That is prety bad. This is comparable with Volkswagen, who are closing favtories for the first time in their existance. As a comparison, toyota has a net profit of 11%.
falcon0159@reddit
It's an auto manufacturer, not a tech company. Most of them run on very slim margins in the single digits. But the $ are so large that it's fine. Porsche has some of the largest margins at around ~20%.
Ford's 2% for Q3 was still almost $900M in Net Profit. Their YTD Net Profit is $4 Billion. They're fine...
Lezzles@reddit
Right, but again, that 2% means that all of its investors should immediately sell the company and just put it in a HYSA, or an SP500 fund. You're actively losing money by investing in Ford rather than a million safer options that could also yield 2%.
falcon0159@reddit
Net Margin is very different from ROI from a stock standpoint. The stock has upside and pays a 7% dividend.
PRSArchon@reddit
You cant keep paying thay dividend with only 2% profit.
falcon0159@reddit
You literally can…it’s 7% of the value of the stock, not 7% of the revenue of the company. You seem to be confusing the companies net profit with the ROI of the stock, those are 2 separate measures that aren’t even strongly correlated as all these completely unprofitable tech companies have proven.
PRSArchon@reddit
They are indeed sperate measures but paying dividends still costs money which is quite difficult if you are on the edge of making a loss. They are already losing billions on their EV cars and are under huge union pressure and are forced to increase wages significantly, they will have less profit than 2% in 2025 guaranteed. I would be surprised if its still a profit but who knows, they might squeeze 1% profit out next year.
no_cigar_tx@reddit
This comment is so WSB.
putaturboonit@reddit
Ford pays dividends.
PRSArchon@reddit
Single digits is a big range. 4% is double the profit of 2%. Toyoyas 11% is more than 5x as much. There are not fine, and neither is VW.
Yankee831@reddit
Toyota is famously very profitable.Their business model is selling conservatively spec vehicles at a significant premium while not paying Union wages or benefits. Ford could have 11% margins if they stripped the Unions, sold 10+ year old models using older tech and charging 20% more for while not taking any custom orders.
Legitimate-Type4387@reddit
Why does anyone make anything? Why bother when it’s clearly more productive to just invest everything in the market? /s
PRSArchon@reddit
Because normally you have higher returns by going through all the trouble of making a product. Ford on the uther hand doesn't currently have the returns they historically achieved.
gumol@reddit
Looks like they're now basing the bonuses on overall company performance, not just individual performance.
Ceramicrabbit@reddit
It's based on both in most firms
If the firm is doing well then everyone gets bigger bonuses but the relative size of that bonus payout depends on individual performances
BM7-D7-GM7-Bb7-EbM7@reddit
Yup. I've worked in oil and gas my whole life and I've seen bonuses based solely on company performance and also both company and personal performance, but I've never seen bonuses based just on personal performance, that's kinda crazy.
losteye_enthusiast@reddit
Agreed. We weighted bonuses heavier on personal performance, but never got to a point where it made sense to base them solely on it.
Large company like Ford? I’d want it to be almost entirely a blend a company and department, adjusted for position within department.
sham_hatwitch@reddit
My company (financial/banking) has ranges based on company performance. Your placement in that range depends on your personal performance. It's basically a bell curve of all employees.
BM7-D7-GM7-Bb7-EbM7@reddit
Yea, some companies I've worked for have done that, where you get a multiplier and the multiplier is based on your own performance, then that's multiplied by a percentage based on company performance. So it would be like, multiplier * bonus percent * income = bonus in dollars.
Others though didn't take into account personal performance at all, it was a straight up "everyone gets a 10% bonus this year". I do know senior level people and managers got more though, for example it would 10% for the peons, 15% for senior level, 20% for managers type of thing.
That is wild that it was based solely on personal performance, so basically that makes it so that everyone is in it for themselves?
sham_hatwitch@reddit
Well company goals have tiers so like tier 1 could be 2-5% of salary, tier 2 is like 6-9%, tier 3 is like 10-13%. Your position within the tier was based on individual performance.
BM7-D7-GM7-Bb7-EbM7@reddit
Nope, that is not how it worked at this particular company, it was a straight up number that everyone in certain pay grades got regardless of individual performance.
Drauren@reddit
Consulting works the same way.
almosttan@reddit
.....which is completely normal.
Tw0Rails@reddit
....which is why there has been a lack of 'company loyalty'.
Workers and front line managers put in the time and extra hours, only to see dumb decisions from up top and their feedback not listened to.
Company performance is impacted by poor leadership who keep their nice payouts then get stingy with the ones hilding everything together.
Token of appreciation? Nah, get fucked. Oh your leaving? Why doesn't anyone want a job!?!?!
HalfFrozenSpeedos@reddit
Aka "wah wages are too high" " taxes are killing us" "end disability and force them to come work for us" "we will relocate to a cheaper location unless we get massive hand outs " (and then relocate anyway, whilst giving c suite HUGE bonuses )
Shart_Finger@reddit
That’s normal
SireEvalish@reddit
This is how it's already done at Ford. I'll explain.
Every salary grade has a target bonus. That target is then multiplied by a factor determined by company performance. This number is then multiplied by an individual performance factor.
So for example, let's say you're an GR8 with a target of $9500 (it may have changed since I last heard the number but bear with me). The company doesn't do great, so the company performance factor is 55%. Your new target is now $5225. But you're a superstar and got top achiever this year, so your personal performance factor is 120%. Your final bonus is $6270.
PigSlam@reddit
That must be nice. The only job I've had with a potential bonus paid out once in 8 years, and did so by allocating the pool in proportion to your salary, so the big guys get a big bonus, and little guys got a little bonus.
ghostboo77@reddit
Bonuses are usually a % of your salary. At least at the 3 different companies I have worked for over the last 15 years.
blendorgat@reddit
What an innovation... I've never worked in a company where my bonus wasn't tied to company (and usually division) performance as well as my own.
TruculentSuckulent@reddit
No. US executives have parasitized too big to fail companies in the us for decades now. They harvest unearned capital regardless of their results based on contacts.
carmooch@reddit
Because individual performance can still be excellent even if overall performance is shit.
It would be extremely demotivating if you exceeded your KPIs but didn’t receive a bonus due to something beyond your control, and a good way to lose valuable talent.
timelessblur@reddit
In some ways yes but in other ways not so much. Bonuses is more of a way for slightly more "flexible" pay. As you move up more and more of your pay becomes bonus based. Ones salary often times cap out at around the 160-200k range and from there more and more stuff moves to bonus.
At this point in my career my bonus is nearly 20% of my TC. At the end of my fathers career 40-50% of his pay was "bonus". If my bonus was 0 out then I basically at eating near a 20% pay cut.
You just have to keep that in mind that bonuses at some point go from a few percentages to a huge chunk of ones total pay.
That all being said I still live on my base salary and my bonus is mostly used to fund vacation, or other major purchases I need. Like a new car I often pull heavy from a bonus to pay for it. This year I want to do some major work on my kitchen but that going to based heavy on my "bonus". I will also say if my bonus is 0 out I would start actively looking at it is a huge chunk of my Total pay.
Skensis@reddit
For a lot of jobs you often expect to hit the full bonus amount and possibly even exceed it.
I've yet to work somewhere that I didn't get the full bonus, even at companies that we had to delay or cancel projects, senior management still pushed the board to grant the full amount to the rank and file.
Legitimate-Type4387@reddit
That’s not a bonus. That’s a unilaterally retractable portion of your salary.
Like a rent “discount” that can be removed at anytime.
Skensis@reddit
That's basically what it is and the "bonus" really is the multiplier that is applied.
timelessblur@reddit
Yep. At my first employer out of college where I sent my first 5 years I would say 20% of my pay was in the profit sharing end of year bonus. In my 5 years there that bonus was at the lowest 15% of my pay and at its peak it was near 25% most of the time hovering near the 20% marker.
I did hear that one year that it was one very rough year for the company and that year the CEO/ owner made a point to find some extra money to kick in and give the employees. The EOY bonus was smaller but he did kick in some of what would of been his money and I am guessing the other executives pay to make sure the employees got something.
Either way there you could count on 15-20% of your pay being in a bonus no matter what level you worked at. We also had a rough idea what it was going to be most of the year based on the month financials they presented us. It was a great place to work and I wish more places were like that.
HalfFrozenSpeedos@reddit
Soooo the salaried version of tips? Hmmm shouldn't say that....corps might take that idea and run with it....car invoice ends up with various "employee incentive gratuities" on it
RedditPoster05@reddit
They need to lower their prices. They are the only brand that hasn’t caved.
saml01@reddit
Positive vs negative reinforcement.
Sfer@reddit
Often times bonuses are given in stock which vests over time so long as the employee stays at the company. Bonuses are often used by companies to keep talent at the company in this way.
directrix688@reddit
If you only tie a bonus to overall success of a company the talent you need to improve overall success will leave and go work somewhere else. The brain drain creates a death spiral for a company
wtyl@reddit
Executives will get their bonuses anyways. You think the people on the bottom will get bonuses when their manager won’t get bonuses?
wlee1987@reddit
Have they considered any more patents which let the government know if you're going 5 over the limit? That should help sales
Savings-Expression80@reddit
But not executive bonuses, of course.
Hwy39@reddit
The CEO couldn’t be reached for comment. He’s busy driving around in his imported Chinese car.
rugbyj@reddit
Don't really blame CEOs for dailying competitors cars to keep up with the market. Coming out and saying it how he did was a miss though.
Spaceman_Stu_@reddit
No they drive what's more reliable and lately it hasn't been a ford, or GM product lol
Fishy_Fish_WA@reddit
No the car companies have fleets of all kinds of competitor vehicles and they take it as a perquisite to drive competitor or their own company vehicles and leave comments and feedback for the technical team
PlantJars@reddit
Be great if they could make a truck transmission that wasn't worthless
Dazzling-Rooster2103@reddit
Release the V8 Mustang Sedan and I will order one immediately... I want a V8 Manual Sedan but don't have $100k for a 5V Blackwing.
WorkingOnTheJohn@reddit
Why must we keep watering down the Mustang name? With as many storied cars as Ford has had just reach back for one of those. For example, bring back the Galaxie as that v8 four door
sr603@reddit
Bring back the fucking crown vic!fuck the galaxie! I love the galaxie but it’s been out of production since when?
CROWN VIC OR NOTHING
WorkingOnTheJohn@reddit
I have no problem bringing back the crown vic. loved it. but the crown vic wasn't ever really considered a sporty car.
Bamas16th@reddit
People keep talking about "watering down the name" like the Mustang II and 80hp 2.3 fox bodies didn't exist lol
WorkingOnTheJohn@reddit
they made bad choices before so they should keep making them? mustang ii like the bronco ii were abominations lol and the 2.3 was a product of the malaise era
Vhozite@reddit
Take my upvote. I’ll be in line right behind you
YZYSZN1107@reddit
is this like threatening a kid with a timeout but never doing it?
Sail4@reddit
Managers are always last
DoublePostedBroski@reddit
I’m going to say managers are only doing with the executives want. It’s the executive bonuses that should be cut.
well-now@reddit
Middle management is a shit job. You often have to champion things you disagree with.
franksandbeans911@reddit
...and, when the axe inevitably starts swinging, middle management better duck. They don't like to cut the kings or the peasants, just the meat in between.
OkDirection8015@reddit
All of these companies give out bonuses to executives left and right even when the company is on the verge of bankruptcy.
franksandbeans911@reddit
It's the same theory that causes exponentially high CEO salaries. Why do they make 2000% more than line workers? Because if the market is floating that expectation, and the CEO can be easily hired away somewhere else for another million, (and the stock is worth jack shit like Ford), then the CEO won't last long.
Bonuses are often the glue for failing companies.
DonnieJL@reddit
If you're sucking at your job, why would you expect a bonus?
This is the same bullshit like a CEO running a place into bankruptcy and getting bonuses and a golden parachute and a cushy job at his next place. Fuck all that.
WabbitCZEN@reddit
Why wait? It's not like managers do more than the employees they're supposed to manage. Half the time, they're just taking credit for shit they didn't do.
ban-please@reddit
The more I get paid the less I actually do in a day. It's whack.
Hwy39@reddit
“Johnson, I see here that you clocked in one minute late. That will not do.”
thepalfrak@reddit
works from home, starts day at 10am, ends work day at 2pm, sends one email at 8:30pm to appear busy late in the evening
caller-number-four@reddit
A good manager would schedule that!
Rillist@reddit
Stop giving away my secrets
Soggy_Head_4889@reddit
I mean they're waiting for quarterly results which is how it works at literally every publicly traded company.
Spaceman_Stu_@reddit
Man this country is so backwards on paying people. We have been fooled into believing these executives and managers deserve their pay while workers don't.
This system has failed and truly needed auditing/purging.
TylerFortier_Photo@reddit
People in charge getting pay cuts for bad performance? Am I dreaming?
jasonmoyer@reddit
Why would a manager get any kind of bonus if they're not doing a good job?
Ms_KnowItSome@reddit
White collar corporate jobs regularly have salary + bonus as the compensation method. You might get $100K annual salary and 20% bonus target. Very commonly companies will set the metrics for the bonus to be attainable that you'd get at least an 80% payout. These metrics are company based and then you'll have an individual performance multiplier, which is how they ratchet you up or down based on your actual performance.
For example, you may have 20% target, 110% payout, 90% individual performance multiplier so 20 x 1.1 x .9 = $19.8K bonus payment.
As you get into director or above positions, those targets can be around 30% of your base, up to 50% or more for VP positions.
gumol@reddit
This looks like they're adding overall company performance metrics to bonuses. So if a manager is doing a good job, but the company as a whole is not, their bonus will be decreased.
SireEvalish@reddit
Bonuses at Ford are already tied to company performance.
BroxigarZ@reddit
Ford failed to see the shift like Chevy did with the Corvette to mid engine to stay competitive. Ford dropped all their Sedans and stopped competing in the entry level Sedan market. Ford dropped all their accessible small car lines that served …let me check here ….the vast majority of Americans…
And they went all in on trucks, suvs and went electric without their own electric infrastructure.
And now that inflation is stupidly high, interest rates are stupidly high, and people can’t afford $70,000 trucks and SUVs…
Ford has exactly…..0….cars that Americans can afford to buy from them in this market.
Real head scratcher this one.
gumol@reddit
Maverick starts at 24k
jlew715@reddit
Yea, the work truck version, with no cruise control or keyless entry. Good luck finding one.
BroxigarZ@reddit
That’s not something anyone is buying lol. I can’t tell you one time I’ve seen a Maverick and I live in truck dependent states.
Shmokesshweed@reddit
There are over 350,000 of them on the road. Something tells me you're not looking hard enough.
BroxigarZ@reddit
That’s an incredibly small number for an entire generation of that line
Shmokesshweed@reddit
You mean the three entire model years of production, some years which were during a global pandemic?
They're probably going to pump out 150,000 a year going forward. That's not a small number of units.
Vhozite@reddit
Verifiably incorrect lol
https://fordauthority.com/2024/11/ford-maverick-sales-numbers-figures-results-third-quarter-2024-q3/
Maverick has already cleared 100k units and the year isn’t over yet
BigCountry76@reddit
They're on pace to sell like 150k mavericks this year and the Hermosillo plant it's built at is working at capacity since it also builds the bronco sport. The maverick is very successful for them.
timelessblur@reddit
maverick is not a car.
Drzhivago138@reddit
It's not a sedan, but it's based on a crossover rather than a traditional truck chassis, and the crossover is the default car now.
Looptydude@reddit
If you can find one at that price, but most I see on the lots, if there are any there, are xlts and lariats, and a gah damn sea of F150s.
Ford would rather make money selling one 60k f150 than sell 3 mavericks. At least GM has more than one option at 25k and they are selling like hotcakes.
Drzhivago138@reddit
When was the last time the "vast majority of Americans" bought small Ford cars, or even small cars in general?
BroxigarZ@reddit
Toyota Camry, Corolla, Honda Civic, Accord….you can’t be serious right.
Drzhivago138@reddit
The Corolla and Civic are the only small sedans that make the list of top sellers (#13 and #16, respectively). They had a combined 432K sales last year, out of 15.5 million total in the US, or 2.8%. That's hardly a "vast majority".
Even if we throw in the mid-size Camry (#8) and Accord (#17), and the similarly sized Model 3 (#12), their total combined sales are 1.15 million, less than 10% of total new car sales.
BroxigarZ@reddit
That’s 10% from three manufacturers not including the Germans. You understand how big of a market share that is right?
Drzhivago138@reddit
But how is that at all a "vast majority" of new US car sales? Last I checked, "majority" requires over 50%.
BroxigarZ@reddit
Because most Americans aren’t buying new right now.
DudeWhereIsMyDuduk@reddit
I could've afforded a Bronco Badlands, it was just a bad pricing model compared to what the Wrangler was offering. It's several thousand more because of packages that have a whole lot thrown in, where the top trim on the Wrangler just...has all of that already, for thousands less.
mr_snufflefluff@reddit
I looked at the Bronco, the Wrangler, and the 4Runner. The I did not enjoy driving the 4runner and I got a MUCH better deal on my wrangler than I would've gotten on a bronco so I am pleased
DudeWhereIsMyDuduk@reddit
Yeah, it was about a $10K difference all in between similarly-spec'ed Broncos and Wranglers for me. Now, the lift for 35s on the Wrangler does offset that somewhat, but it was still a non-trivial amount.
gagt04@reddit
Granted, it's only 2 cars, but. Don't the base Escape and base Bronco sport only start at $25k? Not that $25k is cheap per se, but still reasonably cheap for a brand new car.
gumol@reddit
they start at 29.5k
Shmokesshweed@reddit
You can get thousands off right now. They're collecting dust.
WhipTheLlama@reddit
All those decisions were made at the executive level, not management. Managers who are leading good teams won't get their bonus, but I bet the CEO will.
spongebob_meth@reddit
I think it's less this and more the horrific quality issues Ford has, and questionable design decisions that are to the detriment of reliability.
BigCountry76@reddit
The maverick, escape, and bronco sport are all affordable.
Ford's margins have improved since dropping their non competitive sedans and small cars.
JohnnyBossaNova@reddit
No bonus at all if we aren’t performing.
thrownehwah@reddit
Enjoy that trickle down…. Oh wait I bet the top brass still get those bonuses
longgamma@reddit
Ford needs to make EVs a complement to their gas cars. Something cheap that can get around the city and run errands. You can’t expect people buying 60k trucks to drop another 60k on another EV.
ottrocity@reddit
I'll help: sell cars again you twats.
You can have that for free
GasMan_77@reddit
I agree. SUVs are generally wasteful, and just not needed.
GasMan_77@reddit
Managers should get the same scale for bonuses that floor workers get. If the bonus is set to 5% of gross, then everybody gets that. These seven figure bonuses that some CEOs get is ridiculous, and completely unjust. Floor managers shouldn't get one at all if the floor can't produce. Ford has some serious QC issues right now, and they've got to get their act together for sure.
Sterling363@reddit
Jim Farley, the CEO of Ford Motor Company, earned $26.47 million in 2023, a 26% increase from 2022.
Few-Maintenance-2677@reddit
Wondering how much actual impact manager-level people have…
Skobiak@reddit
I was under the impression bonuses were based on company performance as well as individual performance. Apparently I was wrong.
PRSArchon@reddit
It is, also at Ford.
Affectionate-Girl26@reddit
Well, it's the workers and blue-collar employees who do most of the work sooooooo I'm okay with this
balthisar@reddit
The article is light on details, but management is always given a bonus based on performance. It's called the performance bonus. It's based on EBIT, Warranty, and Profitability.
Maybe there's something special for the guys that report to Jim Farley directly, but for the vast majority of people that are called "management," it's always been based on company performance. Ditto for non-management salaried.
If Ford is underperforming to target, then this shouldn't be a surprise.
taxc@reddit
Performance based bonus plan is basically what theyre saying. The title is misleading, bonus COULD be slashed by up to 65%
BipedalWurm@reddit
If they were doing a good job executing a good plan, then this would not happen. Are they doing a bad job executing a good plan, a good job executing a bad plan, or a bad job executing a bad plan?
Odds are they are doing an okay job executing a bad plan, I don't see this helping.
CommitteeUpbeat3893@reddit
The same management telling lower management to hurry projects through despite clear issues is not threatening to cut their bonuses? Hopefully Farley is included in that
jrileyy229@reddit
I despise internet journalism.... Firstly, "to" is incorrect.... "Could" is more accurate. Secondly, this is according to three unnamed sources... And these original sources said it could be slashed TO 65%... Not "by" 65%. Those are vastly different things.
mortalomena@reddit
Wait, arent their bonuses result dependent now?
Queasy-Hall-705@reddit
Cars are gonna be cheaper now?
ButthealedInTheFeels@reddit
Floggings will continue until moral improves.
macgirthy@reddit
Fire CEO for the GTD failure. Like did they even beat the GT3RS? Probably the 2018 attempt. Lol
AaronDotCom@reddit
talk about being clueless
Ford's issues are not internal
it's the Dealership system that's screwing them time and time again
Shmokesshweed@reddit
Ford's issues are absolutely internal. Dog shit quality and recalls don't stem from dealerships.
Sargatanas2k2@reddit
I am looking for a new car (UK) and am not even considering a Ford because they offer nothing I am interested in. They have 3 or 4 cars all in the same market segment and then nothing that isn't a crossover or SUV. Maybe try not abandoning the entire normal car market then complaining about sales dropping.
ricklessness@reddit
Good now give it to the plant workers
jakub_02150@reddit
How about slashing the price on all vehicles? I would bet that would increase sales. And please, enough with the massive trucks.
piddydb@reddit
Ford is lucky Stellantis exists to keep them from the top of the headlines on car company mismanagement
DudeWhereIsMyDuduk@reddit
Ghosn isn't jumping into overhead bins anymore.
DudeWhereIsMyDuduk@reddit
The beatings will continue...
nolongerbanned99@reddit
Yeah, sure .. a massive bureaucracy that makes shitty cars that get recalled a lot. How long have they been making cars…. Don’t know how to do it well yet. This speaks to poor management and lack of leadership.
DaveCootchie@reddit
So they still get a 35% bonus? I'm sure the workers aren't getting good raises or bonuses this year.
AtomWorker@reddit
Is the brain trust who decided to get out of small cars and now wants to outsource EVs to VW also going to get their bonuses slashed?
AllLibsAreBoomers@reddit
Another day, another attempt by Ford’s CEO to buy his way into a Steve Jobs-like status for the auto industry
The attempt being the plastering of his name and/or image (where he looks like he’s unveiling a new iPhone) anywhere he can
I_AM_FERROUS_MAN@reddit
Good. Make sure it's executives and c-suite first. Not just middle management.
Because if all this is just cover for doing that, then it's just layoff PR bluster.
j_knolly@reddit
Why is there a bonus in the first place if things are bad ???
falcon0159@reddit
Because they're not "bad", they just could be better. Ford still reported EPS of 49 cent last quarter, that's on a $11 stock.
ObligationSlight8771@reddit
Brother works for ford. They do a lot of online gaming and traveling on the company dime. If things indicative of the company then I have concerns.