Today's New Yorker cover story: The Americans Prepping for a Second Civil War
Posted by the_prepared@reddit | collapse | View on Reddit | 114 comments
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2024/11/11/among-the-civil-war-preppers
Sharing because it's meaningful to see publications like NY talk about civil breakdown as their cover story, and they discuss how growing numbers of diverse people are recognizing the reality of things and what the consequences will be.
I'm featured in this story, and really tried to keep it on track, focusing on the right things rather than the prepper porn and extreme scenarios. While it could've done better (eg. focusing more on the polycrisis and breakdown of social contract), it's at least a meaningful conversation piece as we walk into what may be a shitshow of a week in the US. After all, getting people to admit there's a real problem/risk is step 1 to correcting things.
Double-Hard_Bastard@reddit
They really need to change the name to the DSA, the Divided States of America, because the two sides have not been so far apart in over a century. I honestly don't know how progressive, decent people can stand to live in the same country as, and consider themselves countrymen of, the deluded wastes of life that voted for that bloated orange buffoon.
Queasy_Confidence406@reddit
You are part of the problem.
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Double-Hard_Bastard@reddit
Likewise, Trump chump.
fractalineglaze@reddit
The current form of the US is not something worth fighting over. It's like a broken marriage. Just split up.
Like, at least try to make it an amicable affair instead immediately assume there has to be a war for the throne. If you do you'll probably find that there will be enough alliances to deter any immediate invasions.
Red is thinking blue can't manage a state, blue is thinking red can't manage a state - and then there are the various shades of each who are increasingly at each other's throats. No blood needs to be drawn, at least not from one by another: Split up and whichever groups are right will get to see their nemeses sink under the weight of their own mistakes.
Or is the quest for power so insatiable that people would rather hand the reins to their worst enemies in the chance to have it for themselves? Is devolution of power simply not acceptable for the sake of cheapening the pot?
Beautiful-Owl-3216@reddit
LOL what civil war? One side can't change a car tire and the other side is too fat to ride a bicycle.
The vast overwhelming majority of gun owners in the US would surrender their weapons immediately if the alternative was "losing their job". The average American would need to lose 80lbs due to calorie restriction before there was threat of civil war.
Johnny-Unitas@reddit
This isn't impossible but this has been brought up during the last couple of elections with nothing resembling a civil war happening.
There's so many posts on prepper subs about this right now I am starting to think it's being posted by people selling emergency food, ammo, bottled water, etc.
Immediate-Meeting-65@reddit
A world war much more likely than a civil war in my opinion.
dirty-E30@reddit
Sorry to break to you buuuut we're two years+ in to that one.
GoodhartMusic@reddit
Why does everyone want their words marked now
thundersnow211@reddit
How would Harris in office stop China from taking Taiwan? I doubt she'd be willing to take a hard line with China. No one will.
Immediate-Meeting-65@reddit
I mean it's kind of fun to pick your starting point for WW3. Because really Russia has been at war with Ukraine for almost a decade now.
dirty-E30@reddit
Truth, and since Crimea, cyberattacks on NATO members--the U.S. especially of course--have ramped up immensely as well.
tomscaters@reddit
People forget about Crimea and the enabling by both Trump and Obama of the War in the Donbas. It just happens to be much larger now.
Immediate-Meeting-65@reddit
Hell I forgot đ. It's only the other week I was thinking about something and I suddenly got a flash back of like some bridge they were fighting over at the start. And I was like oh right that was a decade ago.
tomscaters@reddit
I still remember watching the news videos on good twitter where Russian officers and soldiers were training with militias to fight in he guerrilla war and basically proxy war, disguised as a civil war.
I GUESS there wasnât very much we could do back then because someone like Zelenskyy wasnât in power, instead we had Yanukovich and other shitty corrupt leaders like him who would have sold the US out.
How the fuck do republicans think the CIA could have even put Zelenskyy in power after toppling the old Russian regime in the Maidan?
No_Foot@reddit
Because that's the message popular podcasters were paid to spread to their audience.
JayV30@reddit
Yeah. The Russian soldiers just took off the Hawaiian shirts they were wearing on their vacations to Crimea and Donbass.
lufiron@reddit
Thatâs the money bet outside of whomever wins. Chinaâs economy is collapsing, starting a war would be a way to kick start it. Also, donât forget Bhutan.
https://www.eurasiantimes.com/header-china-has-already-constructed-22/
Ffdmatt@reddit
This guy "plans to open more across the country." So, yeah, the owner is definitely benefiting from this free marketing.
the_prepared@reddit (OP)
Unfortunately, no matter how hard I/we try to get the media to stop focusing on the bunker communities, they just keep doing it. To the detriment of the convos that really need to be happening instead.
roblewk@reddit
Are you saying people would try to monetize fear?
SomeKindOfOnionMummy@reddit
They're all talk
ThrowRA-4545@reddit
Yo, America, you guys doing ok over the.jpeg
Dewdrp@reddit
American here, no. We never really have been okay, but we are number one in something , if that even really counts.
GoodhartMusic@reddit
What do you mean? Everythingâs just loverlyÂ
memememe81@reddit
Guns and prison. Yay, us.
wandeurlyy@reddit
We actually are temporarily dethroned on the prison one by El Salvador
Relative_Chef_533@reddit
thatâs TWO things! đđđ
6sixtynoine9@reddit
Donât forget mass shootings. Now weâre number one at three things!!!
JayV30@reddit
Don't forget obesity! Now we're number one at four things!!!
drquackinducks@reddit
Help, send feet pics.
Really tho it's pretty grim looking forward. I'm gonna go live in a cave.
Cultural_Key8134@reddit
No. Decidedly not ok.
Logical-Race8871@reddit
We do this every 50 years or so. Either we do a really big war with a friend or almost collapse into a civil war.
Ilovesparky13@reddit
A lot of the problems we face are similar to Western Europe so⌠shrug
Tearakan@reddit
No. It's gotten way worse since trump but our right wing nut jobs have been getting way more violent and unhinged for literal decades
DEEP_SEA_MAX@reddit
Honestly the Democrats haven't made our country much better either. They're mostly just harm reduction against the rabidly fascist Republicans. Either way we're spiraling, it's just a question of how fast either party is leading us towards the drain.
Grand-Page-1180@reddit
The way I put it, the Republicans want to do all the wrong things and do them, the Democrats want to do all the right things but don't do anything. Its a lose-lose situation for everyone. Let's see how much Kamala gets done in four years that affects John and Jane Doe on main street if she's elected.
digdog303@reddit
"all the right things" is quite a stretch. never gonna forget pelosi laughing at trevor hill on cnn reminding him that democrats are capitalists.
dumnezero@reddit
pajamakitten@reddit
While also doing a good job at not offending the right too much so they can court swing voters. We see the same in the UK.
hectorxander@reddit
There is no way democats fend off the fascists indefinitely under current leadership. It is inevitable, just a matter of how long fascists can fix elections in their favor after they get in.
2020 should have been a wake up call. The the only thing that will wake them up now is the Goon Squad coming to arrest them for false allegations of systematic election fraud.
Total shit show either way, steady decline or rapid descent into madness.
06210311200805012006@reddit
Everyone in this thread lamenting the decline and collapse of the world's most genocidal and ecocidal empire. Am I wrong to cheer it?
pajamakitten@reddit
If the US falls then it is going to do a lot of damage worldwide. It would be a cataclysmic event.
06210311200805012006@reddit
The last illusion: that there is a safe path out of this mess.
pajamakitten@reddit
There is too much waste for us to do that though. You cannot erase our stamp on the planet, it is also naive to think a kinder society can arise as long as humans are part of it. We are just too selfish as a species and have now moulded the planet to suit us over other species.
06210311200805012006@reddit
I don't entirely disagree, especially the misanthropic bit. Let me ask you though; do you imagine a nonviolent path out of this? What does it look like? Because I can't see it. The end of this empire is going to be a giant atrocity no matter what.
pajamakitten@reddit
I agree. The problem is a selfish one in that I do not want to live through or experience such violence, even though it is inevitable.
06210311200805012006@reddit
Fair enough, points for honesty.
klayizzel@reddit
No. We have 50% population that think a rapist qualifies fir pres
extreme39speed@reddit
Really feels like weâre clinging on by our fingernails.png
Roboallah@reddit
Na, but we are fortunately so emotionally-exhausted and unhealthy that we can only really pretend to hate each other. The US will find ways to blame and destroy other countries long before we get off our lazy asses.
littlepup26@reddit
Doing pretty terrible over here but thanks for checking in đĽ˛
farsightsol@reddit
Americans are too spoiled and weak and undisciplined and disorganised to do a civil war. There might be some violence and riots and terrorism, but it'll all blow over in a few months when a new TV show or film comes out to distract the masses.
Logical-Race8871@reddit
Y'know Poke, guys in pajamas did alright in Vietnam, too. You gotta respect the pajama.
Rockfest2112@reddit
The deployment of National Guard troops will stop the nonsense, QUICK!
the_prepared@reddit (OP)
Why assume the NG will do what they're ordered to do? Or not do what they're ordered to do because it's wrong? You're putting a lot of faith in that working correctly..
Parking_Sky9709@reddit
Or the playing of the Super Bowl. Big time out for that.
Malcolm_Morin@reddit
And what happens when the power grid is down?
LowFloor5208@reddit
Don't want the Deltas to riot by interrupting their Soma and leisure sports
Malcolm_Morin@reddit
Some MAGAts knocked out the power grid to Moore County, NC for a few days over a drag queen show. Those responsible were never found.
All it takes is just a few of them, in a coordinated effort, to cripple this country for months.
farsightsol@reddit
I expect a lot of things like this to happen, but that's not a civil war, more like guerilla terrorist acts.Â
9chars@reddit
how many power grids do you have to knock out before you call it civil war?
farsightsol@reddit
I think the point that it becomes a civil war is when there is an actual war going on. Two (or more) distinct organised sides with armies battling over control of the government and infrastructure and territory. Anything less than that is civil unrest or political terrorism.Â
Malcolm_Morin@reddit
Fair enough, but once people start fighting back, then it becomes a war.
SomeKindOfOnionMummy@reddit
I think that the cops would have to care in order to catch someone
Grand-Page-1180@reddit
I wouldn't be so sure, remember what happened in Kenosha? Imagine that, but nationwide. Its entirely possible.
SaxManSteve@reddit
Article without paywall: https://archive.ph/99CK2
Some interesting passages:
Ok_Impression5805@reddit
I love the media thinks fascism and anarchy are the same thing, they're literally polar opposites.
monkeysknowledge@reddit
I think you misunderstood - the fascists use anarchy to claim power. And thatâs what historically has happened. Their power is fear and uncertainty which is what sudden slide into anarchy feels like.
Theyre obviously not talking about the utopian vision of anarchy that dorm room hippies dream of.
Ok_Impression5805@reddit
Im an actual anarchist, believe me, fascists hate us. We tear down the order they try to impose.
monkeysknowledge@reddit
Yeah sure they do. Youâre like the Joker to their Batman. Or the other way around - it doesnât matter - they need you and you need them.
Ok_Impression5805@reddit
We don't need them, anarchists are quite happy to be left alone, it's the goal of the entire movement. Fascists can't live without someone to dominate.
Logical-Race8871@reddit
It's really funny to be on a collapse sub and rail on anarchists. There's layers of dissonance there.
monkeysknowledge@reddit
Yeah sure they do. Youâre like the Joker to their Batman. Or the other way around - it doesnât matter - they need you and you need them.
krichuvisz@reddit
They don't think anarchy as absence of power, but as absence of the monopoly on the use of force through the state. They are not able to imagine a world without the rule of violence. They really think people don't steal because they go to jail if they would, and not because they respect each other. They also think it's a good idea to kill anybody who killed somebody.
Ok_Impression5805@reddit
Exactly, they're just stringing together things that are "not BAU" and calling them equivalent without any real understanding of what they're talking about.Â
VendettaKarma@reddit
They had to fit facist in there somehow
grim_repper_@reddit
...
Logical-Race8871@reddit
If it does happen this year or early, it's fascinating as hell that it happened only a couple years after we left Afghanistan. Same thing happened to the USSR.Â
Graveyard of empires is looking like a shockingly accurate moniker.
Immediate-Meeting-65@reddit
What would be the dividing line? Like the first civil war was between slavers and idiots đ. So would it be like the central states vs the liberal cucks? Or just like some odd patchy band of roaming militias vs the moral compass of Texas.
collapse-ModTeam@reddit
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theCaitiff@reddit
I do not believe it would look anything like the first american civil war at all. It will probably look much more like the Troubles in Ireland or the Years of Lead in Italy. You could make a pretty good argument we're already there in a way. Just a low intensity background of violence constantly bubbling away, someone pops up long enough to do a mass shooting, dies to the cops, and everything settles down for a minute. Then someone else kills a few people.
It wont be easy geographical lines or epic battles of men lined up to shoot at each other, it will be one angry man in an SUV driving an hour or two to blow up planned parenthood in a nearby city. It will be hundreds of individual angry men in individual vehicles acting on orders from their own imaginations rather than a well organized and drilled military wearing a uniform.
No_Foot@reddit
Look to the uk for example. Immigrant communities or places of worship or universities will be the target of the angry mobs, possibly violence between them and counter protestors or police
theCaitiff@reddit
Angry mobs are a bit too collectivist for the American pallet. Sure, we have the odd riot now and then, but most of the time those are pretty spontaneous rather than pre-planned. If americans feel strongly enough about a topic to do violence we do it lone wolf style.
It's the consequence of both the individualism propaganda we've soaked ourselves in and the very real results of law enforcement infiltration. COINTELPRO was a specific program with specific aims and specific targets, but the tactics within cointelpro have been used a number of times over the last half century. Left wing groups and right wing groups alike have fallen prey to them and as a result it's pretty rare to see organized actions.
Charlottesville is a good counterexample, proof that it can still happen in america, but if you consider the shock and surprise people treated it with at the time and the backlash since you can see that it's a bit of an aberration from the norm.
No_Foot@reddit
I've read a bit about the cointel stuff, interesting subject. I wonder if the lone wolf stuff comes from the culture of 'rugged individualism' or simply from large land mass fewer people? Would show clearly different behaviours between city and rural areas if so.
Thinking abiut it 'angry mob' could also be labelled 'patriotic militia', I guess it would depend on who's telling the story or speaking at the time.
Immediate-Meeting-65@reddit
This sounds right. Though I don't know enough to know if that actually counts as a civil war.
amanta9@reddit
Is this just an advertisement or affiliate marketing of some type? Great work
the_prepared@reddit (OP)
No?
Bellybutton_fluffjar@reddit
The first one said, âOh, youâre looking for a survival location.â â After several more agents had the same response, Miller asked one how they knew what he was after. The agent replied, âWe have people from every three-letter agency in D.C. with little places out here.â
Those in the know, know what's happening. I probably should go and buy some toilet paper.
SmilingAmericaAmazon@reddit
Said the guy who makes money off of people believing this
the_prepared@reddit (OP)
FWIW I can confirm it's true that many of the people behind the relevant curtains, such as important people in DC, have these fears and are taking steps for their families.
Cronewithneedles@reddit
I went out early to top up on gas, cat treats, and butter. I ended up impulse buying cookie dough and ice cream.
Hot_Gurr@reddit
Small arms arenât really going to save you if your opponent has artillery and drones.
11chuck_B@reddit
You forgot to tell the taliban.
DrWaffle1848@reddit
I don't think it makes much sense to compare a group hardened by decades of near-constant warfare to America's Gravy Seals and SS wannabes.
Gritforge@reddit
A war tends to weed out the weak and harden the survivors on both sides
nugstar@reddit
Get a Hilux, got it.
theCaitiff@reddit
Sure, but from a logistics standpoint you don't carpet bomb your own cities, or any infrastructure you want to keep. Carpet bomb New York or Atlanta and you not only erase your own GDP but you also create a massive humanitarian crisis in your own citizens that you have to deal with.
The cost of a tank shell or a javelin missile fired against a target inside the US is infinitely higher than that same munition being used in Ukraine. We can walk away from Ukraine at any time, if they win we can even sell them everything they need to rebuild (on a loan with interest no less!), but we can't walk away from New York City.
Once you fire your artillery or launch your drones inside the US, you're going to be dealing with the consequences of that for decades.
Alpsun@reddit
Russia did exactly that with the city of Grozny in Chechnya not that long ago.
theCaitiff@reddit
Sure, after the fall of the USSR Grozny became the most bombed city in the war thanks to back to back failed independence wars and it only took them twenty ish years to rebuild. I think that qualifies as "dealing with the consequences for decades".
Rockfest2112@reddit
Walmart was almost completely out of ammo yesterdayâŚ
KonigderWasserpfeife@reddit
Iâm not saying people arenât prepping for war, but I do feel itâs important to point out that hunting season is upon us, too, and my local Walmart typically runs low this time of year.
SomeKindOfOnionMummy@reddit
What's funny is that they think they're the only ones armed
supremefiction@reddit
You are being played. Does anyone really believe what you read in The New Yorker?
https://a.co/d/5vH1qoC
https://a.co/d/5vH1qoC
False-Verrigation@reddit
Didnât we see this movie already?
No one wins, and a bunch of people take the opportunity to kill minorities?
pajamakitten@reddit
The difference is that it Harris wins then it will be done as a protest against her. If Trump wins then it will be done as an endorsement of him.
AwkwardTickler@reddit
Small towns go lord of the flies. More at 10
Psittacula2@reddit
>*âAfter all, getting people to admit there's a real problem/risk is step 1 to correcting things.â*
Admitting comes after first correctly defining⌠the problem.
What is that definition FUNDAMENTALLY based upon?
Here is a brief description which may (or may not) be constructive towards that first outcome:
* Take the basic scenario of a war such as WWII. Take every individual in the US alive today and most of them will have considered an Intersting observation about such a war:
How many US people died in that war? What total number?
Each individual who died in the war had a unique singular life as they experienced it.
The great sin or evil of war was to take that singular individual life and transform it into a group statistic of the total dead, not even a unique number but part of one large group number.
* Finally compare this observation with what US Federal and State Government via their choices of governance has ended up effecting on the US individual peopleâŚ
By their policies and abuse of centralized power systems and creep of power over ordinary civil life of individualsâŚ
More and more people feel their lives are nothing more than a statistic to some absurd policy that fits into a spreadsheet cell someone in these offices of power above them, and
This trend is growing and growing and becoming more and more stifling and far from those wars producing Liberty and Humanity the people today face a similar crime of abuse of power or recklessness affecting their lives not dissimilar to how people shake their heads at the fate of the war dead who are an extreme example of this abhorrent process speeded up.
The systems of governance in the West have grown and become dehumanizing.
It is likely the effect of government not being âFOR, WE THE PEOPLEâ in any meaningful connection any longer. The sense of existential crisis and break-down of shared spirit in society must surely be related deeply to this fundamental problem of âPower & Peopleâ:
Property Rights of the Individual
Social Contract of Individuals with Each Other ABOVE OR BEFORE:
Government Systems growing from 2 and becoming excessively controlling and dictating and decidingâŚ
I am not a Christian or Religious person but the quote from Jesus comes to mind: âThe law (governance eg regulations everywhere) was made not for the people to serve but to serve the people.â
To extend this fundamental problem: I think it has been a massive mistake to treat people as âConsumersâ and not as âHumansâ A PRIORI, by Government Macro Policy for well over a Century now.
Not only are there greater external problems (eg Environment) manifest from this flaw, but the internal ones (Human Spirit) run even deeper.
Shumina-Ghost@reddit
Absolute grift. Big Ammo and Big TP are drooooling.
amanta9@reddit
Big ammo is definitely drooling. AR 15 ammo is anywhere from 0.5-3.00 per bullet and people buy 1000âs âjust in caseâ
SavingsDimensions74@reddit
Is this the prelude to âThe Roadâ?
McQuoll@reddit
I think this goes back the ârecent unpleasantnessâ and after which the peace building (reconstruction) failed . America has unfinished business in this regard.
No_Zucchini_2021@reddit
Thoughts and prayers.