if criminals were punished with SAW methods while broadcasted for the whole world to see, crime rates would unironically go down by a whole lot. thats all ima say
Increasingly severe punishments only work up to a certain point before you hit a cap. Criminals don't commit crimes on the basis of a cost-benefit analysis weighing the probability of getting caught times the severity of the punishment compared to their assigned utility value of the crime. Criminals commit crimes based on a belief that they won't face punishment because they think they'll get away with it. If criminals were totally rational and smart enough objectively assess their odds of getting away with it, then they wouldn't be violent criminals, they'd be corporate lawyers committing white collar crimes.
Once the punishments are severe enough to deter rational criminals from taking calculated risks, continuing to add to the punishments doesn't actually do anything to deter crime.
Singapore is extremely rich, that's a poor comparison. Yes, if you throw enough money at brute forcing the problem, it will yield results. But 1. It's retarded to do that, when there are more cost effective solutions. And 2. Not every country is as rich as Singapore. Otherwise, Mexico wouldn't have such a huge Cartel problem.
Don't get all Reddit on us. I don't care if a pedo, murderer or rapist gets gored or jailed or drowned; I just care that somebody who's proven to be a violent criminal isn't given a second chance to do it again risking more innocents just because some wokegards, "study says", redditors and Sweet Baby Inc players think the poor murderer just made a mistake (like going through the wrong exit at the motorway, but they ended up raping and killing a child, oopsies) and they pinky promised not to do it again.
A healthy society keeps the scientifically proven scum away and unable to hurt. Whether that means we throw them off a cliff, sell them to a third world shithole, etc. I don't care. This is not about revenge, it's about protecting innocents.
I think I understand where you're coming from. But it's usually cheaper to rehabilitate even violent criminals, depending on the context of the crime. Lifelong incarceration is expensive, and badly designed prisons breed more criminal behavior. It has not so much to do with woke bs. Where I live, recidivism rates are extremely low for psychiatric prisons, and they don't let people out on a whim.
You could then argue for the death penalty, but that is even more expensive.
People who commited violent crimes have dysfunctional brains. The way I see it we can lock them up in a shitty hospital which will let them out uncured or sicker, kill patients we cannot help at great legal costs, or try to cure them and let them out in controlled phases where they can start to contribute to society again. The latter is also expensive, but not as expensive as the former options. Also, obviously rehabilitation won't work for all cases.
I have vengeful gut reactions to these criminals, but "Free will" is obviously an illusion, so I find engaging in gut reactions to the actions of these people to be absurd behavior from a rational perspective. Not because "do gooder" or whatever. All violent criminals are insane.
Except if "lifelong" is short. But there are other options, including paying some shithole country to take them. Sadly this can only be applied in the caught red-handed / full HD face on cam / DNA inside victim cases, but that's something.
kill patients we cannot help at great legal costs
If properly done the legal cost shouldn't be so high to make it such a burden.
I also have vengeful feelings towards the scum but this is not coming out of a desire to see them suffer (in fact I'd prefer them shot than tortured because the latter is more expensive); it's just coming from having a family and wanting to minimise risks. You never know when your neighbour is going to flip and shoot you, but you do know if Bub is a serial murderer, he can murder again and he's too big a risk to take while being worth zero as a human being, so why not just shoot him.
I get you, I just see it differently. I suppose it depends on what that will do to your society, and what society you want to live in. If you're OK with innocent people getting shot every now and then, and more often than now because the legal procedures for death sentences are minimal, then from your perspective there wouldn't be a problem. Personally I don't think I'd be a fan. But then again I don't know what your definition of "properly done" legal is in this context.
"but you do know if Bub is a serial murderer caught red-handed, he can murder again and he's too big a risk to take while being worth zero as a human being, so why not just have him shot."
Serial killers would be indeed cases where rehabilitation is very unlikely, with often severe psychopathy. However, AFAIK most violent crimes are perpetrated by young idiots with underdeveloped brains, crimes of passion, as result of psychoses, or because people grew up in a shithole culture with terrible examples and poverty. I'd argue in many of the latter cases, proper rehabilitation works best, and those people can still contribute to society with very little extra risk compared to the general population. This may or may not be a naive approach in your culture, but where I live this seems to work more or less.
Allowing the death penalty may also change the fabric of your society towards a more vengeful one (citation needed though), with further downstream negative effects.
And lastly, removing legal barriers, as much as I dislike bureaucracy, makes it easier for some centralized power to take hold of a society, and execute political opponents, as is typical in quite a few countries without such legal protections.
When I ask any person anywhere on this planet: what should happen to serial killers and child predators? No matter where I go I get the same answer.
The law is a joke and protects only those in power. Countries and societies that will prevail in the next 1000 years do their shit still the old school way: Eye for an eye. For some sins there is no excuse, no rehabilitation can undo their deeds. I don't give a fuck why they did it, it's irrelevant.
In what society do you want to live in? And do you think our "civilized" model will stand the test of time?
When I ask any person anywhere on this planet: what should happen to serial killers and child predators? No matter where I go I get the same answer.
Kill and/or torture them, I suppose? I also get annoyed by on the road sometimes.
The law is a joke and protects only those in power.
I think this very much depends on where you live. To an extent this is always true as there is always some abuse of power. Where I live, the laws and executive branch protect those with and without power depending on the circumstance. Regardless, I don't really see how this is particulary relevant here.
Countries and societies that will prevail in the next 1000 years do their shit still the old school way: Eye for an eye.
Eye for an eye, or tit for tat, is a relatively good strategy from a game-theoretical perspective (depending on the setting). However, violent criminals are not typically acting rationally in their best self-interest anyway. I think retributive violence can have both stabilizing and destabilizing effects on factors like social cohesion and trust, depending on local culture.
For some sins there is no excuse,
Guilt and responsibility are useful abstractions/regulators in daily life, but talking about criminal justice on a societal scale, they become nonsensical. "Excuses" are only meaningful in the context of assuming freeedom of choice, like a criminal could have chosen not to perform their crime.
Of course, this is not true, as decisions are physical processes, which are deterministic at the scale of the brain (or even if random, they are not influenced by some homonculus of 'self'). Violent criminals cannot help that their brains are fucked, and they could not have decided not to perform their crime. Unfortunately for them that means that until we have a cure for that, they have to be separated from society until deemed sufficiently safe (which is a political decision). Or society decides to kill them; whatever. In any case, excuses are irrelevant.
No rehabilitation can undo their deeds.
Of course not. Although I think this implies retributive justice.
I don't give a fuck why they did it, it's irrelevant.
If your goal is to prevent such crimes from re-occuring, it is quite relevant (not necessarily their own explanations, but what we can eventually find out about the causal chain preceeding these behaviors).
In what society do you want to live in?
Ideally, one where people understand that what is typically called free will obviously does not exist. One where neurophysiology is understood to such extent that we can prevent pedophilia or violent crime from occurring in the first place; wherein we can prevent brains from developing such degree of psychopathy (at least if that can be accomplished without even more of a draconian authoritarian surveillance), and where we can cure criminals from before those times.
More realistically (at least in the short-term), one where retributive justice / punishing humans for sake of punishment is seen as ridiculous as punishing a car for an engine malfunction, instead of trying to repair it. But that is just my view.
And do you think our "civilized" model will stand the test of time?
I think we will most likely destroy ourselves with nukes, bioweapons, or yet to be discovered technology. But if not, I think our "civilized" model will become irrelevant by the time we can redesigned our hardware not to be so crappy anymore.
What do you think? Do you think my take is retarded? Feel free to say so, of course.
Um, chud, a heckin' scientific study showed that longer prison sentences DO NOT make unintelligent people who can't think ahead less likely to commit crime. That means all criminals should only spend one day in a rehabilitation facility where social workers politely ask them not to commit crime again.
Your honor, I did indeed violate my neighbor's daughter, but that's only because I was upset at how my boss passed me over for a promotion in favor of his nephew! Whoopsie, honest mistake, I'm such a Scorpio hee hee!
A dude tried that in Warhammer 40k. Any crime, be it murder in cold blood or stealing bread for your starving family - is punished by getting flayed alive while being broadcast in 4k to the entire planet. It worked until he left then the place immediately went back to mega crime land
How would that work though. A lot of things people wouldn't know offhand are technically crimes, which means that past a certain point there is no incentive to care, because you can't avoid getting targeted at random.
Crime like murder, rape, human trafficking, etc, if the person can be 100% proven to have committed the crime, fuck yea send them into a saw trap. Disgusting people like that dont need to cause more pain
A criterion of 100% is basically asking for all criminals to get out free. It was long established that any justice will have some criminals go free and some innocent people punished. The only question is what is the acceptable ratio. One idea is Blackstone's ratio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstone%27s_ratio
Oh but they can be REHABILITATED, we need to pay for their education, housing and entertainment, then give them a second chance even if it means they will kill or rape some more. They say they won't do it anymore. If they go and murder/rape your wife or kids, oopsies lolol, it was worth trying I guess.
Exactly, our justice system is fucked rn, we need a change, John Kramer might have been punishing some people who didnt deserve it, but when it comes down to it, i agree with his morals for the most part
They're not good enough to go in most peoples top 10 but they're entertaining enough to watch once or twice. For me they almost feel more like TV episodes than films now. Can get kind of repetitive if you watch them all in less than a week
First one is pretty good. It's a good watch even if you're not a horror fan, I would say.
Then they decrease in quality until Saw IV, where they become "so bad it's good". They get pretty ridiculous, but VERY entertaining. It goes like that until the one with Chris Rock, which is just bad. I haven't seen Saw X, yet.
First one is amazing and genuinely one of my favorite horrors. Two and three are quite good too. The rest of the franchise was really unnecessary but 4-6 are ridiculously fun. Haven’t watched the rest.
I enjoy them for the most part, there's a couple of duds in there but for a franchise with its eleventh film in development that's inevitable. The first is definitely the best. Saw X (most recent) is good.
I also (kind of randomly) really like Saw 6, but you can't really watch that one without having seen all prior movies, too much lore and too many plot threads going by then that will mean nothing to you if watched out of order.
How can these regards not have heard of felony murder?
If someone dies during the course of an underlying felony, i.e. kidnapping, then you are guilty of murder, it does not matter whether you intended to kill or even cause harm to them at all.
That reminds me of the movie where a kid killed people on livestream and he made it so the death only happened if the views got high enough, so if nobody watched the victims wouldn't die. And nobody in the movie considered like, finding out who hosts the site and shutting it down.
If u like gore they are worth checking out. First one is legitimately great film. The sequels are mixed in their quality, but are very funny and are great to watch with friends.
He regularly assaults, kidnaps, and imprisons people. Where the fuck is that not illegal?
And putting 2 people in a room and saying “both of you have to compete and whoever loses dies, if you don’t compete then you both die” is absolutely murder.
Oh sweet summer child... It is very much illegal in any non kangaroo court on the face of the planet. Courts or "the law" cares about intent as much if not more than what actually happens.
ReallyDumbRedditor@reddit
if criminals were punished with SAW methods while broadcasted for the whole world to see, crime rates would unironically go down by a whole lot. thats all ima say
Tommy2255@reddit
Increasingly severe punishments only work up to a certain point before you hit a cap. Criminals don't commit crimes on the basis of a cost-benefit analysis weighing the probability of getting caught times the severity of the punishment compared to their assigned utility value of the crime. Criminals commit crimes based on a belief that they won't face punishment because they think they'll get away with it. If criminals were totally rational and smart enough objectively assess their odds of getting away with it, then they wouldn't be violent criminals, they'd be corporate lawyers committing white collar crimes.
Once the punishments are severe enough to deter rational criminals from taking calculated risks, continuing to add to the punishments doesn't actually do anything to deter crime.
Black_Diammond@reddit
Singapore. Nothing more to say. Draconian punishments are proven to work if harsh enough.
ThomasNoname@reddit
Singapore is extremely rich, that's a poor comparison. Yes, if you throw enough money at brute forcing the problem, it will yield results. But 1. It's retarded to do that, when there are more cost effective solutions. And 2. Not every country is as rich as Singapore. Otherwise, Mexico wouldn't have such a huge Cartel problem.
GodlessPerson@reddit
And literally every other country proves you wrong.
Black_Diammond@reddit
All they prove is that half assed Draconian punishments don't work.
Puginator09@reddit
Like Saudi Arabia? Or Afghanistan?
A_for_Anonymous@reddit
Don't get all Reddit on us. I don't care if a pedo, murderer or rapist gets gored or jailed or drowned; I just care that somebody who's proven to be a violent criminal isn't given a second chance to do it again risking more innocents just because some wokegards, "study says", redditors and Sweet Baby Inc players think the poor murderer just made a mistake (like going through the wrong exit at the motorway, but they ended up raping and killing a child, oopsies) and they pinky promised not to do it again.
A healthy society keeps the scientifically proven scum away and unable to hurt. Whether that means we throw them off a cliff, sell them to a third world shithole, etc. I don't care. This is not about revenge, it's about protecting innocents.
bunker_man@reddit
Tf are you even responding to. You are trying to complain about a group of people that doesn't even exist.
A_for_Anonymous@reddit
The rehabilitator do-goodists who need to feel like they're good persons so much they will feel empathy for and side with criminals of all things.
Abiogenejesus@reddit
I think I understand where you're coming from. But it's usually cheaper to rehabilitate even violent criminals, depending on the context of the crime. Lifelong incarceration is expensive, and badly designed prisons breed more criminal behavior. It has not so much to do with woke bs. Where I live, recidivism rates are extremely low for psychiatric prisons, and they don't let people out on a whim.
You could then argue for the death penalty, but that is even more expensive.
People who commited violent crimes have dysfunctional brains. The way I see it we can lock them up in a shitty hospital which will let them out uncured or sicker, kill patients we cannot help at great legal costs, or try to cure them and let them out in controlled phases where they can start to contribute to society again. The latter is also expensive, but not as expensive as the former options. Also, obviously rehabilitation won't work for all cases.
I have vengeful gut reactions to these criminals, but "Free will" is obviously an illusion, so I find engaging in gut reactions to the actions of these people to be absurd behavior from a rational perspective. Not because "do gooder" or whatever. All violent criminals are insane.
Zephandrypus@reddit
You know what’s even cheaper than rehabilitation? A gallows rope
Abiogenejesus@reddit
So, without due process then?
Even then rehabilitation may be cheaper if deemed likely to be successful, as they may help others later, pay taxes, etc.
Zephandrypus@reddit
You know what’s cheaper than due process? No due process
That’s what money laundering is for, after all
A_for_Anonymous@reddit
Except if "lifelong" is short. But there are other options, including paying some shithole country to take them. Sadly this can only be applied in the caught red-handed / full HD face on cam / DNA inside victim cases, but that's something.
If properly done the legal cost shouldn't be so high to make it such a burden.
I also have vengeful feelings towards the scum but this is not coming out of a desire to see them suffer (in fact I'd prefer them shot than tortured because the latter is more expensive); it's just coming from having a family and wanting to minimise risks. You never know when your neighbour is going to flip and shoot you, but you do know if Bub is a serial murderer, he can murder again and he's too big a risk to take while being worth zero as a human being, so why not just shoot him.
Abiogenejesus@reddit
I get you, I just see it differently. I suppose it depends on what that will do to your society, and what society you want to live in. If you're OK with innocent people getting shot every now and then, and more often than now because the legal procedures for death sentences are minimal, then from your perspective there wouldn't be a problem. Personally I don't think I'd be a fan. But then again I don't know what your definition of "properly done" legal is in this context.
Serial killers would be indeed cases where rehabilitation is very unlikely, with often severe psychopathy. However, AFAIK most violent crimes are perpetrated by young idiots with underdeveloped brains, crimes of passion, as result of psychoses, or because people grew up in a shithole culture with terrible examples and poverty. I'd argue in many of the latter cases, proper rehabilitation works best, and those people can still contribute to society with very little extra risk compared to the general population. This may or may not be a naive approach in your culture, but where I live this seems to work more or less.
Allowing the death penalty may also change the fabric of your society towards a more vengeful one (citation needed though), with further downstream negative effects.
And lastly, removing legal barriers, as much as I dislike bureaucracy, makes it easier for some centralized power to take hold of a society, and execute political opponents, as is typical in quite a few countries without such legal protections.
But idk what's best, really.
callmemachiavelli@reddit
When I ask any person anywhere on this planet: what should happen to serial killers and child predators? No matter where I go I get the same answer.
The law is a joke and protects only those in power. Countries and societies that will prevail in the next 1000 years do their shit still the old school way: Eye for an eye. For some sins there is no excuse, no rehabilitation can undo their deeds. I don't give a fuck why they did it, it's irrelevant.
In what society do you want to live in? And do you think our "civilized" model will stand the test of time?
Abiogenejesus@reddit
Kill and/or torture them, I suppose? I also get annoyed by on the road sometimes.
I think this very much depends on where you live. To an extent this is always true as there is always some abuse of power. Where I live, the laws and executive branch protect those with and without power depending on the circumstance. Regardless, I don't really see how this is particulary relevant here.
Eye for an eye, or tit for tat, is a relatively good strategy from a game-theoretical perspective (depending on the setting). However, violent criminals are not typically acting rationally in their best self-interest anyway. I think retributive violence can have both stabilizing and destabilizing effects on factors like social cohesion and trust, depending on local culture.
Guilt and responsibility are useful abstractions/regulators in daily life, but talking about criminal justice on a societal scale, they become nonsensical. "Excuses" are only meaningful in the context of assuming freeedom of choice, like a criminal could have chosen not to perform their crime. Of course, this is not true, as decisions are physical processes, which are deterministic at the scale of the brain (or even if random, they are not influenced by some homonculus of 'self'). Violent criminals cannot help that their brains are fucked, and they could not have decided not to perform their crime. Unfortunately for them that means that until we have a cure for that, they have to be separated from society until deemed sufficiently safe (which is a political decision). Or society decides to kill them; whatever. In any case, excuses are irrelevant.
Of course not. Although I think this implies retributive justice.
If your goal is to prevent such crimes from re-occuring, it is quite relevant (not necessarily their own explanations, but what we can eventually find out about the causal chain preceeding these behaviors).
Ideally, one where people understand that what is typically called free will obviously does not exist. One where neurophysiology is understood to such extent that we can prevent pedophilia or violent crime from occurring in the first place; wherein we can prevent brains from developing such degree of psychopathy (at least if that can be accomplished without even more of a draconian authoritarian surveillance), and where we can cure criminals from before those times.
More realistically (at least in the short-term), one where retributive justice / punishing humans for sake of punishment is seen as ridiculous as punishing a car for an engine malfunction, instead of trying to repair it. But that is just my view.
I think we will most likely destroy ourselves with nukes, bioweapons, or yet to be discovered technology. But if not, I think our "civilized" model will become irrelevant by the time we can redesigned our hardware not to be so crappy anymore.
What do you think? Do you think my take is retarded? Feel free to say so, of course.
Puginator09@reddit
I agree with your thinking. I read a book about determinism this year from a neurologist, interesting stuff
Squire_3@reddit
You should be in charge, genuinely
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
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Traditional-Talk4069@reddit
Found Konrad Curze's account
AutoJannietator@reddit
Um, chud, a heckin' scientific study showed that longer prison sentences DO NOT make unintelligent people who can't think ahead less likely to commit crime. That means all criminals should only spend one day in a rehabilitation facility where social workers politely ask them not to commit crime again.
PlzDontBanMe2000@reddit
Wow chud, did you just imply that criminals are unintelligent and that they’re not all amazing people who were forced into crime by the system
Rgeneb1@reddit
Crime is a protest against the abnormality of the social organisation and nothing more.
GasterIHardlyKnowHer@reddit
A_for_Anonymous@reddit
And the patriarchy
Theroux721@reddit
Better hope you're never falsely accused of anything
Banana_Keeper@reddit
A dude tried that in Warhammer 40k. Any crime, be it murder in cold blood or stealing bread for your starving family - is punished by getting flayed alive while being broadcast in 4k to the entire planet. It worked until he left then the place immediately went back to mega crime land
InfusionOfYellow@reddit
So the lesson is that policies have to be maintained to remain effective?
Banana_Keeper@reddit
Yes. Don't forget the brutality. That makes it extra ~~fun~~ effective
kerelberel@reddit
A fictional example is not a real example.
Maximus-CZ@reddit
Its a real example, be it from fictional world. But the example is real.
TheGreatTickleMoot@reddit
It's a fabricated example, not a real example, and furthermore one imagined up by the kind of third rate author who writes Warhammer 40K novels.
Maximus-CZ@reddit
The process of fabricating it makes it real
bunker_man@reddit
How would that work though. A lot of things people wouldn't know offhand are technically crimes, which means that past a certain point there is no incentive to care, because you can't avoid getting targeted at random.
GrimLuker2@reddit
Crime like murder, rape, human trafficking, etc, if the person can be 100% proven to have committed the crime, fuck yea send them into a saw trap. Disgusting people like that dont need to cause more pain
AdemsanArifi@reddit
A criterion of 100% is basically asking for all criminals to get out free. It was long established that any justice will have some criminals go free and some innocent people punished. The only question is what is the acceptable ratio. One idea is Blackstone's ratio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstone%27s_ratio
A_for_Anonymous@reddit
Oh but they can be REHABILITATED, we need to pay for their education, housing and entertainment, then give them a second chance even if it means they will kill or rape some more. They say they won't do it anymore. If they go and murder/rape your wife or kids, oopsies lolol, it was worth trying I guess.
GrimLuker2@reddit
Exactly, our justice system is fucked rn, we need a change, John Kramer might have been punishing some people who didnt deserve it, but when it comes down to it, i agree with his morals for the most part
Oppurtunist@reddit
Night lords moment
Ayjayz@reddit
Doubt it. The kind of person who can think ahead and consider consequences aren't going to commit crimes anyway.
bunker_man@reddit
They are if they are wealthy. Because white collar crimes have often smaller punishments and larger rewards.
bunker_man@reddit
That literally used to happen further in the past, and there was still bands of riving bandits everywhere.
seaneihm@reddit
Not really.
Source: Punishments during the Middle Ages
Material-Kick9493@reddit
sure for the violent crimes, but sticking a druggie in a torture chamber isnt exactly helping them
ChaunceyPeepertooth@reddit
Oshootman@reddit
???
xXxBongMayor420xXx@reddit
The second movie shuts that down real quick.
"If you put a gun to someones head and force them to pull the trigger, its still murder"
No_Return_From_86@reddit
And the guy that says that is supposed to be the bad guy lol, lmao even
Snazzle-Frazzle@reddit
Armstrong syndrome in full effect mixed with a lack of media literacy
aredri@reddit
But how would you have felt if you had killed them?
Burrito_Salesman@reddit
But I never killed anyone.
Wild-Mushroom2404@reddit
KILLING IS DISTASTEFUL
CradleRockStyle@reddit
For you
Ackermannin@reddit
…to me
patmoon97@reddit
do burgers really?
Salaino0606@reddit
Can't wait to hear that tipping in America has become more expensive than the meal 💀
PikaPikaMoFo69@reddit
Lmao, the delivery fee + tax on Uber is always more expensive than my meals
RawketPropelled37@reddit
Oh yeah I never justify getting delivery. Except only ONE time when I was black out drunk with friends watching weeb shit
AgitatedKey4800@reddit
Your tip was small, i attached a bear trap to your dick, you will learn the horror of a small tip
RawCyderRun@reddit
I've never actually sawn any of the SEE movies. Are they any good?
Dull-Perspective-90@reddit
They're not good enough to go in most peoples top 10 but they're entertaining enough to watch once or twice. For me they almost feel more like TV episodes than films now. Can get kind of repetitive if you watch them all in less than a week
SourceJobWoman@reddit
First one is pretty good. It's a good watch even if you're not a horror fan, I would say.
Then they decrease in quality until Saw IV, where they become "so bad it's good". They get pretty ridiculous, but VERY entertaining. It goes like that until the one with Chris Rock, which is just bad. I haven't seen Saw X, yet.
DarthVeigar_@reddit
The Chris rock one was so bad I couldn't take the guy seriously every time he was on screen.
PlzDontBanMe2000@reddit
More of a thriller than a horror. I don’t think the purpose was to scare you.
GasterIHardlyKnowHer@reddit
No, now get back to your sportsball
cope-seeethe-dilate@reddit
Goreslop for when you're bored
Wild-Mushroom2404@reddit
First one is amazing and genuinely one of my favorite horrors. Two and three are quite good too. The rest of the franchise was really unnecessary but 4-6 are ridiculously fun. Haven’t watched the rest.
bunker_man@reddit
From what I understand the first one is okay, but not amazing, but basically everything after that is slop.
Rgeneb1@reddit
Spot on, but its fun crap. They're late night, brain off, watch once movies.
__VOMITLOVER@reddit
I enjoy them for the most part, there's a couple of duds in there but for a franchise with its eleventh film in development that's inevitable. The first is definitely the best. Saw X (most recent) is good.
I also (kind of randomly) really like Saw 6, but you can't really watch that one without having seen all prior movies, too much lore and too many plot threads going by then that will mean nothing to you if watched out of order.
Richard_J_Morgan@reddit
First one is ok, everything after is trash.
miku_dominos@reddit
For a soon to 11 movie series they're not too bad. Most series that long have some really bad movies but overall the quality is pretty consistent.
awesomemanswag@reddit
The only explanation for John Kramer's inconsistent morality is his brain tumor
Material-Kick9493@reddit
>le wife was killed by a druggie thief so now Im going to torture people for the most minor things
bunker_man@reddit
How does not killing anyone absolve you anyways. Kidnapping and torturing them is also pretty bad.
TrajanParthicus@reddit
How can these regards not have heard of felony murder?
If someone dies during the course of an underlying felony, i.e. kidnapping, then you are guilty of murder, it does not matter whether you intended to kill or even cause harm to them at all.
bunker_man@reddit
That reminds me of the movie where a kid killed people on livestream and he made it so the death only happened if the views got high enough, so if nobody watched the victims wouldn't die. And nobody in the movie considered like, finding out who hosts the site and shutting it down.
Wild-Mushroom2404@reddit
Ah yes, the perfect way to deal with addiction. Just give these people more trauma
DovesOfWar@reddit
Charles Manson should have been acquitted. 'Another guy told me to' is a retarded defense.
Deimos_Aeternum@reddit
Based Jigsaw
thetwoandonly@reddit
He had Aids
Ice_Swallow4u@reddit
Nobody has AIDS! I don’t want to hear that word again!
Lustgartenknecht@reddit
But the pool is clsoed
gamebers@reddit
The homelander of engineers
IlIllIlIllIlIl@reddit
Hello anon, I want to play a game.
Dmitruly@reddit (OP)
What game
missingnono12@reddit
Backshot Roulette
Lustgartenknecht@reddit
Garrys mod. Ill call you soon on Discord
LibertyPrimeDeadOn@reddit
rdm
IlIllIlIllIlIl@reddit
I'm getting admin
NotoriousJazz@reddit
"We're putting you in a 5 minute timeout for rdm."
"I'm gonna kill that guy again immediately when I'm back."
IlIllIlIllIlIl@reddit
Peak
acle0814@reddit
word tower. the first letter is N
Vancer2@reddit
I
SINGULARITY1312@reddit
P
Vancer2@reddit
P
Ok-Independent-3833@reddit
E
Vancer2@reddit
S
SINGULARITY1312@reddit
L
SINGULARITY1312@reddit
L
IlIllIlIllIlIl@reddit
Parcheesi
Max3391@reddit
You could have chosen life, but instead you chose the die
ProfileIII@reddit
You truly are a sick fuck.
DadmomAngrypants@reddit
Euchre
Din_Plug@reddit
Among Us
Kasen_Dev@reddit
Oh boy can we play hide and seek.
Tsyvatsok@reddit
Its almost of if he was the bad guy or something
bunker_man@reddit
Have bad guys considered just doing good things instead??
WagwanKenobi@reddit
just be normal
drunk-penguin@reddit
"Your whole life you hated the color pink. I filled this entire room with flamingos"
Mr_BigYellowSun@reddit
I've never watched a SAW movie. Am I missing anything?
bunker_man@reddit
Not especially. The first one is a passable movie and all the rest are cash in slop.
cameltony16@reddit
If u like gore they are worth checking out. First one is legitimately great film. The sequels are mixed in their quality, but are very funny and are great to watch with friends.
Dassive_Mick@reddit
If you enjoy horror, then absolutely.
bumpercars12@reddit
Nah, maybe watch the first one
bunker_man@reddit
I think you just listed his problem.
Lustgartenknecht@reddit
Being edgy wont get him laid. Thats a problem
silveraith@reddit
He did get laid. Third movie shows that this all started because someone made his wife miscarry.
tastybabyhands@reddit
So he lost his wife's boyfriends son? Shouldn't have that much affect on a guy
AngusDWilliams@reddit
🤓
BlazinAmazen@reddit
The craziest part about this is that none of it is technically illegal
JuanAy@reddit
Aside from all the murder, kidnapping, endangerment, GBH, assault, false imprisonment, and torture everything Jigsaw did was 100% legal.
PlzDontBanMe2000@reddit
He regularly assaults, kidnaps, and imprisons people. Where the fuck is that not illegal?
And putting 2 people in a room and saying “both of you have to compete and whoever loses dies, if you don’t compete then you both die” is absolutely murder.
Kasen_Dev@reddit
Yeah drugging, kidnapping, plotting murder, Attempted murder, endaferung children ect are totally legal.
SlowTortoise69@reddit
Oh sweet summer child... It is very much illegal in any non kangaroo court on the face of the planet. Courts or "the law" cares about intent as much if not more than what actually happens.
Phteven_j@reddit
Not to mention pretty much all the time it's false imprisonment. And you can't booby trap your own property. etc. etc.
nephyou@reddit
Don't care, won't tip.
SynV92@reddit
Remember the incredibly unfair situation he put that dude that smoked into. That was his sin. He smoked.
komanderkyle@reddit
“I cured his smoking, my methods work”
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
[removed]
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BlonsPLe@reddit
That sounds easy for jigsaw
Particular-Zone7288@reddit
don't be a dick to people doing sh"t jobs?