Gelfoam suddenly backordered
Posted by FareastFFL@reddit | PrepperIntel | View on Reddit | 100 comments
Gelfoam, a material for stopping bleeding in surgery patients, is suddenly backordered across the country.
It does have applications in treatment of battlefield wounds.
This affects the entire USA because docs on opposite coast report the shortage.
It’s a sudden shortage and I have not encountered this before.
Affectionate_Fan7832@reddit
I work at a Dutch manufacturer manufacturing absorbable gelatine sponges exactly like Gelfoam and Surgispon but we are not registered in the USA. In the case of a clinical need, does anyone know a Special Access Route and can help work in that direction?
banditoforever5190@reddit
anyone have any suggestions on what to get at this point?? all you no big dealers??
Electrical-Concert17@reddit
It’s a manufacturing issue. Also why can’t they use surgifoam? Same thing, different manufacturer.
dreese1986@reddit
Surgifoam is also backordered and will be until 2025.
caveatlector73@reddit
I know shortages related to IVs is because of Helene.
FareastFFL@reddit (OP)
This is different.
caveatlector73@reddit
You are correct that they are two different medical items. I gave you intel on shortages related to IVs. Did you bother to check to see if it is a similar problem with gelfoam?
FareastFFL@reddit (OP)
Google says it’s manufacture issue but my people says no reasons were given to them and they were told it’s backordered indefinitely. This isn’t related to helene.
InformationWide1383@reddit
Douchebag
DankesObama@reddit
How do we talk to your people?
Tank_Girl_Gritty_235@reddit
Are your people in the room with us right now?
mandesign@reddit
With what corroborating evidence are you using to leap to that conclusion?
FareastFFL@reddit (OP)
I have no evidence. It’s just a guess. It’s a very common material and just as important as antibiotics. Have a hard time fathom how something this important suddenly became backordered with zero warning.
surprisedropbears@reddit
Most companies operate “just in time” both for inventory management and to only produce when there is actually demand and orders. Businesses aim to not hold massive amounts of stock on hand.
If there is a manufacturing issue causing a significiant drop in output in the main/sole provider, you would expect backorders everywhere at once.
Quick_Step_1755@reddit
There is nothing less prepping like than JIT and LEAN. The way I describe it at work is we run so lean that if we miss lunch, we will starve to death by dinner time. Granted, when everything goes right, you squeeze a little more profit, but I think it can be taken too far.
mandesign@reddit
These types of issues, across industries, have been occurring since covid.
Microchips, baby formula, certain paper products, etc.
Overwhelmingly this is due to over concentration of particular manufacturing dependencies becoming unavailable, such as a critical piece of specialized equipment, regulatory compliance, raw material shortage, or down stream sub component providers being disrupted.
This is why there is a whole industry for supply chain and for Business Continuity. Chasing every last penny for today often leads executives to under estimate risk and potential impact, which ultimately comes as a shocking surprise to end consumers.
Davidwalsh1976@reddit
I thought the baby formula shortage was because the manufacturers said is was not a profitable product.
Necessary-Chicken501@reddit
It was because of massive recalls for contamination and Listeria as well as supply chain issues.
We had to pull so much formula from the shelves and had notices up for months.
TheGisbon@reddit
He's "people"
thedelphiking@reddit
it is from Helene
Lopsided_Lab8681@reddit
Sure, the way FEMA was stockpiling ammo in 2020 to take over the federal government? /s
Awesome_hospital@reddit
"Your people" lmao
caveatlector73@reddit
I don't think this will help with gelfoam unless you know the generic term, but it's one official way to check on shortages.
https://www.ashp.org/drug-shortages/current-shortages/drug-shortages-list?page=CurrentShortages&loginreturnUrl=SSOCheckOnly
therapistofcats@reddit
absorbable gelatin powder https://www.rxlist.com/gelfoam-drug.htm
Doesn't seem to be on the list.
caveatlector73@reddit
Only foam shortage listed on a search engine is for bedding.
devadander23@reddit
So it’s manufacturing issues.
misshestermoffett@reddit
Helene took out a saline plant in NC, leading to the IV shortage. Just adding that information.
caveatlector73@reddit
Lone Pine. It's happened before when Maria hit PR.
MrFishAndLoaves@reddit
How so?
I only did an intern year in general surgery but I feel like it wasn’t very popular a decade ago.
Upbeat-Cress-5094@reddit
IV fluid shortage in Australia as well, a fee months before Helene.
caveatlector73@reddit
One of the issues is that our supply chains are still too fragile.
Upbeat-Cress-5094@reddit
That won't change. Profits are more important than people.
Blarghnog@reddit
Likely recharging of some strategic reserve is happening.
pughoarder@reddit
I couldn't find anything specific to Gelfoam made by Pfizer, but I did find a foam supplier with a note on their website about global foam shortages.
https://www.joerns.com/global-shortage-of-foam-products/
"...component and raw material disruptions we are all living with as current market dynamics continue to affect North American supply chains. One area that has been particularly difficult to stabilize is polyurethane foam products.
The unprecedented disruption to the polyurethane foam supply chain has lasted longer than expected as suppliers continuously struggle to increase production and sustain sufficient volumes of chemicals.
Hondahobbit50@reddit
Gel foam isn't a plastic foam made with chemicals like pu. It's pig skin gelatin
Shagcat@reddit
Well, there’s a lot of bleeding that’s been going on on the other side of the globe. Maybe the excess stock was sold to Israel, Ukraine, etc.
FareastFFL@reddit (OP)
This is NEW. I’ve never seen issue with supply of this material. It’s very vital to any hospital that perform surgery.
Crocs_n_Glocks@reddit
When was the last time we had major conflicts of this size going on in the world?
65CM@reddit
Last year, the year before, the year before, the year before, and so on in perpetuity.
Crocs_n_Glocks@reddit
Nahhh actually there hasn't been a major land war in Europe for quite some time.
65CM@reddit
Yes, there's always conflict in Europe (and I can see you already trying to move the goalposts.... unfortunately, you moved them closer)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conflicts_in_Europe
Crocs_n_Glocks@reddit
I didn't move any goalposts - I'm clarifying my point....which your link actually proves, so thank you!!
All of those conflicts and not one is comparable to the meatgrinder going on right now.
They're taking more casualties on each side each week than America would in a year occupying Afghanistan.
.....and then there's Gaza.....sheesh
65CM@reddit
I'll repeat - every year
thr0wnb0ne@reddit
how long has it been on backorder?
FareastFFL@reddit (OP)
Just found out yesterday. I don’t usually post here nor on prepper subs, just figure that this information might be useful. It’s very unusual because
thr0wnb0ne@reddit
did a little digging for you and may have uncovered the issue. your google fu is weak my guy lol turns out it is related with the ukraine conflict, apparently not exactly a new issue but the chickens are probably finally coming home to roost so to speak and not grear news, definitelt prepperintel worthy
https://www.joerns.com/global-shortage-of-foam-products/
". . .Polyurethane (PU) foam [the key ingredient in medical gelfoam] is manufactured with an amalgamation of isocyanates, namely, Toluene diisocyanate (TDI) and Methylene diphenyl diisocyanate (MDI). The prices of TDI and MDI have a considerable impact on the prices of their end product, and polyurethane foam.
In February 2023, BASF SE, a global TDI manufacturer and supplier, announced the shutdown of its Ludwigshafen-based plant in Germany, due to the high costs of energy and raw materials required to produce TDI, owing to the ongoing Russia-Ukraine implications. The announcement has resulted in a reduced supply of TDI, a major raw material required to produce PU foam, hence pushing the prices upwards. The upward price trend is likely to continue in 2024."
The foam shortage crisis began in 2020 when the supply of TDI decreased significantly, leading to a spike in polyurethane block prices. In 2021, the situation worsened when Propylene Oxide became scarce, further escalating the costs of foam products. Currently, the industry continues to struggle with high raw material prices and the persistent scarcity of TDI.
https://yumerest.com/blogs/blog/foam-shortages-crisis
therapistofcats@reddit
I don't think PU foam is at all related to gel foam. Gelfoam is a porous, pliable, water-insoluble sponge made from purified pork skin gelatin. It's supplied as a powder that's mixed with sterile saline to form a paste.
It's basically Jell-O powder or Jell-O powder in a sponge. purified pork Skin Gelatin USP Granules and Water for Injection, USP.
I think it's just their supplier messed something up and they don't have any other suppliers lined up and OP is trying to spin this into something bigger.
thr0wnb0ne@reddit
yall really need to get better at google, polyurethane is not water soluble either
''our Polyurethane Gels and Sponge Foams help to improve the patient experience in medical offices and hospitals''
https://www.bergad.com/product-polyurethane-gel/
therapistofcats@reddit
What are you going on about? PU foam and gel foam are 2 completely different products. Why do you keep posting about PU?
thr0wnb0ne@reddit
i'm guessing you didnt click the patent
therapistofcats@reddit
I did. And that is not what we are discussing. You're getting the words "gel foam" confused with the product name "Gelfoam"
https://labeling.pfizer.com/ShowLabeling.aspx?id=574
thr0wnb0ne@reddit
well color me corrected
VRTester_THX1138@reddit
I'm marking this day on a calendar. I've never seen a redditor back down and not dig in when corrected. Good job!
thethingfrombeyond@reddit
well thats a first for reddit
caveatlector73@reddit
I was mesmerized. Kudos to both.
Kolfinna@reddit
MedSurg has it in stock
Firefluffer@reddit
This is alarmism at its worst. I do all the ordering for my department, I work in ems and I work with folks in our hospitals on a daily basis. Nobody is worried about this, or for that matter, most of the other day to day shortage that sprout up regularly in the industry. We make adjustments all the time. Expiration dates get extensions approved by the manufacturers and FDA, we switch to alternative products, we adapt and we carry on.
In the last year alone I’ve had to deal with no less than nine shortages that impacted my agency. None of those resulted in a risk to the public.
FareastFFL@reddit (OP)
Have you ever seen gelform shortage? We deal with all sort of random shortage all the time, but gelfoam is something we never had shortage with.
thedelphiking@reddit
I was just told that it will be back in stock within 3 days
FareastFFL@reddit (OP)
Sure hope so. We need this thing everyday.
Firefluffer@reddit
I’m looking on Henry Schein right now and see three viable alternatives right now.
FareastFFL@reddit (OP)
Thanks. I’ll speak to my purchasing people because they cant seem to find alternatives.
AchioteMachine@reddit
“Sold” to Ukraine and Israel…
OGSyedIsEverywhere@reddit
This is because of the tornado that destroyed a third of the giant Pfizer factory in Rocky Mount NC just before Helene. Most of Pfizer's nondrug medical products are made there and it's all fucked.
cabelaciao@reddit
A quick view of several retail sites shows it widely in stock. I’m not looking at bulk order sites, but if there is a backlog then it doesn’t seem to be something widespread enough to affect small volume sites.
FareastFFL@reddit (OP)
I am just telling what are two hospital product manager is seeing. One in CA another in NC.
Shotbyahorse@reddit
Unavailable in Michigan also.
SKI326@reddit
Thank you for reporting this. It’s important information and I am sorry people are downvoting you.
rggggb@reddit
It doesn’t seem to be important information
thedelphiking@reddit
the reason he's getting downloaded is because it's not a real situation, it is easily available in bulk from anything
FareastFFL@reddit (OP)
It’s all good. I have no doubt that this could well be a manufactuering issue. Just haven’t seen gelfoam backordered ever since i started working in the biz about 15 years ago. Not through covid, not through helene. Not during any wars I am aware of.
Happens just now.
SKI326@reddit
Very odd indeed. And frightening.
WillBottomForBanana@reddit
No, you are not. You are making much bigger and wider claim just in your post.
Logical_Tax6146@reddit
The retail sites have it on hand already. Tho if they haven’t price gouged it yet it means hospital supply buyer haven’t started looking for it from anyone other then traditional sources.
Kolfinna@reddit
Oh it's gone on backorder in the past. I worked at an emergency vet clinic and it happened occasionally. Surgifoam is available and some of the other alternatives. Take a deep breath dude
Ashespez20@reddit
I'm in the dental field it's on back order for us, too, I noticed the last couple of weeks .
admiralgeary@reddit
Relax... Quick Clot is widely available, though it wouldn't surprise me if some stockpiles got sent to any one of the major ongoing conflicts for IFAKs
admiralgeary@reddit
Relax... Quick Clot is widely available, though it wouldn't surprise me if some stockpiles got sent to any one of the major ongoing conflicts for IFAKs
bad--machine@reddit
Not that I don’t believe the end of the world is nigh, but I work in a hospital setting and sometimes random things will just go on backorder. Like all the time. Every month there will be this or that on backorder and it is not necessarily due to a global or domestic catastrophe. Anti fungal earwash…hydromorphone 10mg/ml injectable….neo predef tetracaine powder. Back ordered items are a normal occurrence in medicine.
ButterIsMyFriend@reddit
What is your source? This particular product has been widely unavailable on the us for years
fringeathelete1@reddit
This happens periodically with a variety of medical products. Gelfoam is not a unique product, there are many types of similar products. Floseal, surgifoam, arista, fibrillar, surgicel,… the list goes on. Point is just get another type. Not a big deal.
Actual-Outcome3955@reddit
This kind of stuff happens on and off. Wouldn’t read much into it. I’m a surgeon, we have plenty of different products to choose from.
warriorwomanx2@reddit
He is correct, I also work in healthcare
Augustaplus@reddit
I had a roofing company tell me the new roofing underlayment used it for better leak prevention.
PrairieFire_withwind@reddit
Gelfoam is made by phizer in new york. It is a purified foamed pig skin product. Uses nitrogen in manufacture.
That is a quick google search.
So are we short of nitrogen or pigs skin? Or their manufacturing and packaging plant had an issue or did not pass an inspection?
Lots of reasons are possible here without more info we are at a wait and see. I say they may have a bunch of pig barns euthanized which would put a hiccup in manufacturing.
I am in the midwest, piggy central, and have heard no rumors about bunches of barns shut down. Still it is possible or it could be another region they are euthanizong and cleaning barns. Possible. Need more info tho.
Defiant_Bowler7705@reddit
Honestly though. If you are in a situation where you NEED this stuff it’s too late anyways.
FareastFFL@reddit (OP)
Depends on how badly the existing healthcare capability is overwhelemed/degraded
Thick-Interview4004@reddit
I wonder if H5N1 found in a pig recently is affecting the “purified porcine skin gelatin” found in Gelfoam.
Davidwalsh1976@reddit
Lol one case? Smh
Flyingfishfusealt@reddit
You know what happens to a herd of animals when one animal in that herd tests positive for something serious?
Ever watch the videos out of china during covid?
LSumainman@reddit
Factory caught on fire, no replacement available. Only factory that made the product
FareastFFL@reddit (OP)
Well that would explain it. Do you have link to that?
LSumainman@reddit
I work in the health care field and that's what's been fed down to us. Aka trust me bro
Axelpanic@reddit
Are all hemostatics on back order? Or just the gel?
FareastFFL@reddit (OP)
I don’t deal with other hemostatics so I wouldn’t know.
itchydolphinbutthole@reddit
Maybe preparing for after the election??
WillBottomForBanana@reddit
The amount you'd need to bugger the supply chain is way bigger than that.
Goofygrrrl@reddit
That’s my thought as well. Having prepackaged drop off available supply packs so that if a city has a riot or civil disturbance, they can land supplies on a helipad to the hospitals closest to the fracas. If there’s no issues, release the product back to the manufacturer and relieve the back orders.
saysee23@reddit
Per a medical supply company eager to sell you their goods: "Pfizer has been experiencing a shortage on their Gelfoam® sponges. We will continue to receive products sporadically through the end of March 2020. We are suggesting Ethicon’s Surgifoam® as an alternative to Gelfoam®. We have ample supply of this product and it is in stock and ready to ship!"
Incotec and J&J also have alternatives.
westonriebe@reddit
Self life of it is 2-4 years… i would only imagine the US government could do that, maybe preparing for the worst… but it could be anything