I F23 moved to France on a student visa and kinda starting to regret it
Posted by Minimum_Painter_7106@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 142 comments
I moved to France on a student visa in the middle of September to do a 1 year master degree in Medicinal chemistry. In the country I was living previously, things were too tough to find a job including for the locals. In my home country it’s even worse. I did pharmacy for a Bachelor degree
Before I moved, had huge trouble finding accommodation since my university didn’t have enough. The agency that helped me is horrible at fixing repairs and I found my door handle broken. They took weeks to fix it
We are only 8 in my class and being the only person of color, I noticed my classmates especially the girls give me dirty looks and exclude me from things. If I greet them they hesitate to reply or don’t reply at all. One of the teachers made fun of me for not understanding something when I asked a question saying that even a Bachelor student in first year can know the answer. It made me feel embarrassed
It’s been tough opening a bank account due to all the paper work needed. Making friends is hard since everyone has their own social circle. I’ve made a few but they still seem to prefer their own circle. I’ve surprisingly received more racist experiences from the black people in France telling me to go back to my country if I don’t speak French well
I speak a B1 level of French. Even at church the Pastor avoids talking to me and always comments saying he doesn’t want to speak English even though he knows English very well. One of the members told him I don’t speak French too well so that’s how he found out
My program consists of a 6 month internship which we have to find by ourselves. It’s been so tough applying to different jobs and either getting rejections or no responses. In my class, only 2 people managed to find and it’s an internship in the school so it’s more of like they got it through connections since they are friends with the teacher giving the internship offer
I love French culture, language and the fact that tuition is affordable. I’m grateful for the opportunity but don’t want to start regretting and it’s taking a toll on me. Has anyone experienced such before?
HuckleberryExotic265@reddit
i’m so sorry to hear that. France has quite a superficial culture, and people can be judgmental based on your origin and perceived social class. This is why everyone tries to dress so well, so that they’re treated with respect and dignity. I have lived there a few years and found it to be one of the most discriminating societies I have lived in and I have travelled a lot. Ofcourse, this is something that exists everywhere just to lesser degrees. I would recommend you to either improve your french and try to dress like them to “fit in” or to move to an anglophone culture which can be more accessible and accepting of differences. I’m sorry you’re going through this, you absolutely don’t deserve it and I hope you can stand up to this treatment with courage and not let it affect your self esteem.
aya0204@reddit
Even though I love the language, the culture and the food, I probably would never live in France. They have no problem excluding people who aren’t French to speak French fluently. They can be quite xenophobic as well even with 1st/2nd generation French born foreigners. I would probably try to suck it up and stick to the year and then heavily apply to placements.
I would probably also try to make my commute much shorter. That alone would make me feel quite miserable. Living in the city or much closer to it will give you a better chance of socialising. I would join some expat/foreign groups in FB, meet up app, dance classes, book clubs, etc to have a social life.
Sometimes it doesn’t work and it’s okay to understand that. I lived in canada for 4 years and it took me two years to understand that it wasn’t my place. I just needed to do another 2 years to finish my diploma which I couldn’t even finish anyway because I ran out of money and couldn’t pay my studies. Canada kicked my arse and have me a bit so subtle hint it wasn’t my place. So I left. Best decision ever.
Ill_Presentation3817@reddit
Hey, sorry to bother you but I'm a Latin American planning on moving to Canada for my Master's. What's the exact reason you didn't feel at home over there? Thank you in advance!
aya0204@reddit
Hey. It’s very subjective, I’m experience was very my own and it was years ago so it can absolutely be very different to you.
In my experience, the people who surrounded me had no time to understand me as a person. I found Canadians to be quite uncultured and ignorant outside their world. I never felt accepted or didn’t think I could ever integrate simply because I looked and sounded different. Once they are in a group of people, they are quite clicky specially if they know each other since elementary/ high school. It is incredibly cold in the winter, from November to April which really affected my mood. Supermarkets consisted of about of prepackage food, a lot of processed foods, microwaveable foods. There aisles of fridges with meals for you to put in an oven/microwave. Getting fresher food was way more expensive. Then you have the restaurants/cafes which are nowhere near the culture we experience in Europe: sitting own having a coffee. It’s more like getting coffee to go. Restaurants are also quite shit unless you go to a bigger city. I lived in oakville and Hamilton and they both massive shitholes in their own way.
If you go to Quebec or BC/Alberta maybe it’s different. I wouldn’t know as I didn’t live there. I had major depression there and found life meaningless. I was never so alone in life and I tried hard to find friends. I lived in Ontario and it was pretty much like the US. I wouldn’t live in Canada again, even if someone paid me $10M. No fucking way. Not even as a holiday.
Ill_Presentation3817@reddit
Funny that a lot of your complaints are ones I have living in France (closed-mindedness, difficulty making friends, insularity, etc.). On top of that I have to contend with a language and cultural barrier despite having spoken French for 10 years, on top of having ADHD in a country that barely recognizes it. Because of how Europe as a whole views it I pretty much have no option other than going to North America eventually and with how the US is doing, I don't really have much of a choice. Thanks a lot for your reply!
aya0204@reddit
The U.K. are pretty open minded about ADHD. Problem is the health sector is in tatters. I would also think Scandinavians as well. It’s a shame you are going through that in France. That’s why I said it’s probably a country I wouldn’t live in. I live in Portugal now and I thoroughly recommend it. Not sure how ADHD gets treated here but overall, I have had a very good experience with the health system. Portuguese people are also very welcoming. I think I found my place, at least for now. Until some populist comes in and screws it all
franckJPLF@reddit
Sorry I had to laugh about the “French dressing so well”. We are well known for using the same colorless clothes every days until they literally break down. Try dressing cute and you’ll be subjected to daily harassment in the streets.
HuckleberryExotic265@reddit
i never said dressing well is dressing colourful, quite the opposite here. Beige, for instance is certainly one of the markers of civilised in this vocabulary.
soytuamigo@reddit
By vocabulary you mean in France or generally?
HuckleberryExotic265@reddit
in 🇫🇷
HuckleberryExotic265@reddit
I couldn’t wear it with a gun to my head :)
Minimum_Painter_7106@reddit (OP)
I’m actively improving my French and always avoid speaking English at all costs. As for the dressing part, since I’m in southern France, the people dress a bit more casually especially young people. Only in church where people dress a bit for formally
HuckleberryExotic265@reddit
This is a failing on their part OP, I was in the top 5% pf earners there with C1 French but I’m brown and proudly revealed my original country (third world) when mistaken as French, and this was enough for several to lose interest in speaking further or to hear rude jibes. I am also generally a very joyful and excited person and it was very hard to fit into the relatively sombre and formal culture and ended up on antidepressants. But as I said, every culture has their hierarchy, I would just recommend you to find one where it’s easier to climb this hierarchy and to not be excluded based on characteristics and social standing one is born with.
L_Swizzlesticks@reddit
God, that’s awful. I never realized the French were so racist. I’m so sorry you and OP have both had to deal with that. It’s completely unacceptable.
soytuamigo@reddit
A lot of racism in Europe. There probably was less before mass migration to be fair.. But it's always been a thing even to legal, documented foreign students.
Th_Stranger2273@reddit
Are you American?
Ill_Presentation3817@reddit
Oh boy. I've lived in Paris for 2 years after having studied for 10 years at a French international school in Bolivia. Idk how to explain how it feels to live here other than that I don't ever really feel at home. I have C1 French and even then I struggle a lot with socializing, and even then French people are very uncurious and insular from my experience. I've grown up consuming Anglophone media in a Hispanophone country and consequently, even if I speak perfectly fine French, I never feel comfortable speaking to anyone because we don't ever share anything in common. None of this even takes the massive bureaucracy and cost of living into account. Nail in the coffin for me was that the country barely believes ADHD exists, which is kind of a problem when it's as discapacitating as it is for me. I'm looking to leave as soon as I can.
dxmforall@reddit
Not speaking French or speaking French with a foreign accent is a death sentence in France. I am a white German man, and the times that French were rude to me during holidays in France are countless. Concierge in a 5 star hotel in Cannes, stayed for five days there, he recognised me every time, and every time when I asked a question in English he replied in French, and I asked him, sorry I can’t understand it could you repeat it in English and he just said: ah yes I forgot you don’t speak French. And that every day at least twice, absolutely on purpose. Cashiers ignoring me, waiters taking extra long, giving you bad table, it was unbelievable. Then I tried to learn a few sentences in fluent French without an accent to at least pretend to be French in a restaurant, and attitudes improved a lot, even got a smile sometimes…
sovietbarbie@reddit
Hmmmmm. Something doesnt line up because i live in paris with an accent and no one really switches to english nor does anyone ignore me. but in berlin german servers never even looked me in the eye nor talk to me unless i insisted so
OkMathematician1483@reddit
what doesn't line up... op's own personal struggles not correlating with yours? Because god forbid someone not go through the same exact thing as u/sovietbarbie because then they're must be something fishy right?
Bonnsurprise@reddit
But don’t forget that exactly the same things happen to non-Germans in Germany. I’ve encountered all of this in my 12 years there.
EU-Howdie@reddit
Not true for every foreigner. Dutch are very welcome.
dxmforall@reddit
Oh absolutely, I know and I agree, hahaha, Germany is a horrible place, even for us fellow Germans! Rude service, and just terrible people. Worst encounter so far was during my last visits, we sit in a restaurant with my friend, their daughter is three years old, and she was a bit tired and just crying a bit and wanted to go home, not loud but just normal, and we were trying to wrap it up, and leave and an old lady about 70 years old, just screamed from a close table, get the fucking child out of the restaurant, literally screamed at us, totally unhinged.
Shep_vas_Normandy@reddit
Funny enough, my rudest encounter ever was in Germany. 😆 Hotel concierge hung up on me twice for not speaking German.
proof_required@reddit
Yeah they are made for each other - French and German. They are much more similar than people might think.
EU-Howdie@reddit
Not true, Dutch are very welcome in Germany !! Even when they do not speak German
dxmforall@reddit
Yeah, absolutely, that’s why I left 15 years ago, spent a lot of time in Asia and now in Latam and i just enjoy it so much that people smile at me in the supermarket, people greet me on the street, sometimes I still can’t believe it that when there’s a traffic jam because someone neglected a red light or really can’t drive and blocks a way, that other people help them and everybody is quite relaxed… In Germany they’d almost murder you right away for blocking traffic
EU-Howdie@reddit
No, I did not experience that, a thing like that. But still have an opinion.
Being "doing things" with languages almost all my life , (like started learning French at 9) I know B1 is not special. Not at all. It is more you can manage somple, basic conversation. I do not understand that you want to learn at that (master) level at a university with a level like a 5 year old. I would not like to teach, or to have a collegue student in my class who slows down all class. You like the French country et cetera. And it is affordable there. Please get serious, study in the language you know best, like your own language or in English when you are a lot better in that. Too, there is a shortness in student rooms, you take one for something what is not realistic. So go back to study somewhere were you already was, in English. Which you are ABLE to.
OR use a year, or the rest of this year, to learn the French language up to at least C1.
You write too you are the only person of color in your class. Do you suggest that is the reason? But you write too that you do not speak and understand French enough and it seams you do not have the level in your study ( like and i copy what you write, your teacher said ... copy ... when I asked a question saying that even a Bachelor student in first year can know the answer.
So Pitying yourself does not bring you anywhere. Go back where you studied because there you already had good resukts, OR start learning French from B1 to C1 which is a
Minimum_Painter_7106@reddit (OP)
I’m being taught in English and I speak better French than all my classmates except for 2 who are French but can speak English. I forgot to mention that almost everyone in my class is an expat except for 2 of them who are French. I’m the only expat of color
Minimum_Painter_7106@reddit (OP)
Some of my classmates do not know French at all
Rustykilo@reddit
Few countries will let you pass without knowing their language but France isn't one of them, especially if you are trying to talk to them in English lol. Yes being in a new country will have some obstacles but please not all countries are like that. Some are really good towards expats (mostly in Asia) some are good to migrate to (Canada, Australia and the US). If I were you maybe give it another 6 months but things don't improve don't be shy to start thinking about moving to another country. Preferably the one you speak the language and a bit similar to the culture. Good luck.
Minimum_Painter_7106@reddit (OP)
I always avoid talking to them in English. What I’ve experienced is some people switch to English when I speak to them in French. If things don’t improve as you said I may join my sister in the UK since she will be moving there soon
hellovatten@reddit
You could also try Sweden if that's of interest. Pretty much everyone speaks English! And university is free for EU citizens, you even get money from the Swedish government if you work part time during your studies. Source: I live in Sweden.
Minimum_Painter_7106@reddit (OP)
Ok but how is the cost of living there and university fees for non EU citizens?
hellovatten@reddit
Cost of living will depend on where in Sweden you live but generally you can find cheap housing costs for students, like 340 euro a month or so. As for university fees - this also depends on university and degree, probably between 8300 to 35 k euro.
hungry-axolotl@reddit
Not France, but I'm doing my PhD in Japan in chemistry/chem eng. Research is good, but life can be difficult sometimes, studying abroad is not easy. Life in Japan is comfortable and fun but I've experienced some of the things you've mentioned, and not looking Japanese can be annoying at times. It's sadly something I cannot change and I've just accepted it, but I still try my best to enjoy my time here. I'm not sure if I want to stay in Japan since I've sort of lost my motivation to live here (I'm not sure what I want to do), so I'm considering moving to a different country or back home if I can't get a job here. I just wanted to say best of luck with job hunting and your studies!
Minimum_Painter_7106@reddit (OP)
Thank you! All the best with your future endeavors as well
Own_Egg7122@reddit
What the fuck is up with university teachers and making students feel embarrassed? It's literally their fucking job to teach and answer questions. Can you make a complaint?
Minimum_Painter_7106@reddit (OP)
I don’t think they would care or take it seriously. There’s also no evidence of it happening
miss3star@reddit
Good luck finding an internship without being a native French (or at least an African native speaker of French). They're incredibly racist and xenophobic when it comes to giving foreign students any chances.
Minimum_Painter_7106@reddit (OP)
Then why do they allow foreign students in their country if they don’t want to give them jobs? Doesn’t make sense
ultimomono@reddit
I have a wacky idea about that. I think they do it to stimulate the local student housing market and drum up money via other oblique charges
soytuamigo@reddit
It's not wacky at all, it's the same racket in the US. J1/F1 visas are basically a state department stimulus program for college and universities throughout the US.
Sharklo22@reddit
Except it costs the French state at least 15 to 20k€ a year for someone to study there, between uni running costs, social security, access to certain stipends...
soytuamigo@reddit
Don't foreigners need to cover their own tuition?
Own_Egg7122@reddit
Non EU students do. I also paid 4 times more as an international student. Some get scholarships but those are very competitive.
soytuamigo@reddit
Exactly, she's a foreigner, she should be paying her own way or have a scholarship.
Sharklo22@reddit
If they're from the EU, no, they pay like French people
If they're from outside the EU, unis are allowed to charge more, but they all decided not to
Sharklo22@reddit
No, this is not it, because a lot of student housing in France is public and foreign students can even get CROUS stipends (up to 500+€ a month, but only after 2 years residency) and social help. Foreign students (in fact any student) costs the State big bucks, around 12k€ a year just for the uni running costs, and up to 6k€ in direct stipend + access to cheap public housing + APL (up to 200€ a month, just need to be resident) + social security (which working people pay several 100's of € a month in taxes for, and you'd pay at least $600 in the US for instance).
In fact, I don't know if you know, but Universities could be charging non-EU students thousands a year (like 6k IIRC), but they decided not to against the government's will.
OP didn't get all that but, as a whole, the higher ed system is not like in the anglophone countries where it brings in money, it's much the contrary.
I think it's rather soft power, and compensating for population growing older.
Soft power in academia, hosting students is a way of potentially creating academic collaborations is they went through a PhD or more, industrial collaborations otherwise.
This also directly or indirectly helps universities get funding, as besides what I just explained, they can recruit from a larger pool of candidates, have a higher level, rank higher, pull more funding whether from the EU (research grants, more related to first point) or the government (see massive investments in Paris-Saclay for just one example, totally related to rankings).
Regarding population (or rather youth) decline, the universities are probably about at maximum capacity, but the student population will come to decline as IIRC we're already at 20%+ with Master's degrees of the latest generations and I'm not sure it's reasonable to go much further. As such it makes sense even for universities to try and bring in foreign students to compensate for the coming decrease, as proportions will eventually stagnate but young population decline. This is once more to secure funding and keep departments open, as no expenses = no budget (less true now with budgetary semi-independence), no students = close dept eventually (freeze recruitments).
From the country as a whole's standpoint, France is already relying heavily on immigration to keep the finances afloat, then why not try and bring in people with higher earning potential? They'll pay more taxes. The choice is not really between no international students and international students, it's between uneducated and educated immigrants.
ultimomono@reddit
Foreign students can get a bit of CAF money (that goes straight into the private hands in the international student housing racket I mentioned), but not CROUS housing. At least that's how it worked at the French university where my son went (UPS). It was insanely expensive for him to live where the campus was and private housing was his only option. He was an EU student from a non-Anglophone country with a French bac who got in via Parcoursup just like the French students.
Sharklo22@reddit
Oh, I see, I always assumed because there were lots of international students in my uni including some that were there since little time. In fact I find this on the CROUS website:
So it seems international students can access CROUS housing, but they won't be prioritary as they have to sign up on the second wave? At least the stipent is a sure no except after 2 years.
You're right to say the CROUS housing is insufficient... In fact all of Paris-Saclay (what I assume you mean by UPS) has insufficient housing, they built the labs, moved the schools, and expanded the university before building any housing... It took 2 years from the start of my PhD at a lab there to see the first housing, restaurant or supermarket that you didn't have to take the car to go to. And my lab (and others) had been there since a few years (like 5, some much more) before I arrived, too.
They decided to build one of the world's largest academic centres in the middle of nowhere (in a way, literally, as this stems in part from CEA Saclay who put itself there to isolate the population from possible nuclear accidents while not being too far from Paris), and housing was a second thought.
However, in my opinion, this is the result of incompetence rather than malice, as I find this a very inefficient scheme to send money the landlords' way, they could just increase APLs (the CAF you mention) or outright subsidize construction or private student housing.
And even without international students, the situation would be the same there, as the uni naturally attracts from all over France, and it would probably never be lacking candidates to fill the classrooms (thus the studios and rooms).
In fact it's terrible for professionals too, who don't compete with students for housing. Well, actually they do, because that's how expensive things are, even people with wages live like students there, or 1hr away. That was the case of my PhD advisors, I really do not envy their life, even if the work and campus is very stimulating.
Don't get me started on that! The most ironic is if you mention Paris-Saclay or Sorbonne on one hand, and Polytechnique or ESSEC on the other, outside of France, most people will likely know the former but not the latter. Polytechnique was too good for Paris-Saclay by the way, in which they were initially, but eventually bailed from to make their own Paris Saclay (Institut Polytechnique de Paris).
ultimomono@reddit
In Toulouse they would not let any foreign student apply at all or get on a waiting list for CROUS. They deleted the dossier. There was no second wave. Most of my son's French classmates also didn't get CROUS housing and were in the private housing off-campus. It's possible other regions handle it differently and more humanely.
Paul Sabatier is also in the outskirts in an area totally unequipped to handle so many students. It's such a strange little neighborhood that all the shoehorned-in private student housing really sticks out as odd.
There was nothing like that when I studied in France in the 1990s in Tours and Montpellier. You either lived in the CROUS or you lived with a family that took in students or in a crazy student apartment that got passed from person to person.
When my son went to do his Erasmus year in the UK it was similar to Toulouse--except he did get student housing there--it was just absurdly expensive, basically privatized and far from campus. I've seen it myself traveling around to different universities in Europe the past 20 years for conferences, seminars and summer schools. So it's not just a French thing. It's a sort of "university" model fueling an odd private student housing building boom that seems to have been replicated in many places.
Sharklo22@reddit
That sucks, it would be great if it went back to how you describe things.
A thing that makes matters worse is that CROUS has had a policy in latest years to make larger apartments. What this means in practice, is they tear down old 9m^2 rooms and make 1 studio per 2 rooms, effectively halving the places (and more than doubling prices). This would have been a fine policy if there'd been an abundance of spots, but there isn't.
Something to consider is that when you studied in the 90s, there were fewer students. It seems the number of students went up from 1.7M to 2.9M between 1990 and today.
We need to invest massively in higher education (and research) but unfortunately 0,022% of public expenditure (though it includes pensions, healthcare, etc) seems enough in most people's eyes. Since you seem to be in academia still, I imagine you've already had french colleagues talk your head off about their low salaries and ridicule financing even in competitive positions (like CNRS, ultra competitive, 10k€ welcome package).
Cities have become more crowded in general, too. Rural exodus continues, as does demographic growth, and real estate has become suffocating for the young generations, students or otherwise. A starter salary lets you rent a room in someone's house or a studio nowadays in most cities. How much were you paying for your son's rent? Multiply that by 3, that's the minimum wage a french employee needs to make to be able to rent that. Median net wage in France is about 2000€ (and minimum around 1400), so you can probably infer the type of dwellings people make do with. But oh well, this is a global problem and other countries have it even worse.
Yeah, I can imagine university housing to be very expensive in the UK, their universities are big business. 1.6% of the UK GDP from uni income, that certainly finances a lot of research.
Another trend that's linked to what you say is bullshit schools sprouting all over the place, I'm talking proper exploitation of uninformed parents and students, with high tuition, very low quality teaching, and sometimes even lacking the relevant accreditations (say ability to deliver engineering diplomas or a Master's).
Theal12@reddit
Money
miss3star@reddit
Well, I speak from personal experience and I went on an Erasmus exchange year to one of the best engineering schools in their country. Nobody wanted to give me an internship opportunity, so I came back and immediately got amazing offers in a different EU country.
Minimum_Painter_7106@reddit (OP)
Which EU country was that?
miss3star@reddit
Sweden.
Minimum_Painter_7106@reddit (OP)
Didn’t they require you to know Swedish?
miss3star@reddit
Nope lol, most tech jobs in Sweden are in English, almost everyone speaks perfect English, and you don't even have to learn Swedish to get citizenship if that's what you want to do later xD
GsosoG@reddit
For a lot of French it's more that we hate repeat several time the same things (in French especially), so people switching in English with you are more likely that they don't want to spend to much time letting you try.
I love it when foreigners try speaking French towards me, but not all of us are normal people, in fact we even hate each other so don't take everything personally, that's just how we treat other French (still, not everywhere)
And for the people mean to you, it's just a school with shitty educational staff, that's it And if you feel like you're going to have a hard time, just do the best for yourself, nobody should judge you for that, the more important is that you tried
high_technic@reddit
French Society is a cesspit that needs to be avoided at all cost. Especially if you are a person of color and are kearning the language. Racism is to the French, what ping pong is to the People's Republic of China. Their mastery of it is well known, and the government invests heavily to make the nation the best in it. I'd look at other countries if I was you. Even on an International standpoint, French Institutions carry little weight (with the exception of Sience Po). The UK or Germany (in a diverse and cosmopolitan City like Berlin or Hamburg, avoid small towns and villages) is way better than anything found in France.
No-Tip3654@reddit
How can Berlin or Hamburg be more ethnically inclusive than Paris?
high_technic@reddit
You can work in Berlin, notably in Tech, with very little German-speaking ability. Try to do that with ze French...
soytuamigo@reddit
Paris is as inclusive as Africa.
No-Tip3654@reddit
Aren't people in Africa friendly generally no matter wether you are in the south, north, east or west part of the continent?
Jumpy_Look6010@reddit
I agree with you.
MurasakiNekoChan@reddit
I don’t fit in either. I actually almost studied medicinal chemistry, and I previously studied some general chemistry, but now I’m in fashion. Don’t give up, I can totally understand the struggles of bureaucracy and monoculture. I wish I could offer more advice, but if you want a friend in France, you sound cool and we’d probably have a lot in common.
Used_Philosopher_83@reddit
I'm sorry to read this, hopefully it will get better for you! Just keep up with the applications and eventually, you will find a suitable internship. I have done a student internship in France myself (I am German) and I can understand the struggles with not fluently speaking French and having a strong accent. However, the fact you came from another country and started to learn French is already a huge step. Many French people can only speak French and maybe a little bit of English but that's it, so you're well ahead of those people who try to put you down.
Moonagi@reddit
Sorry to hear this OP. A lot of the stuff you mentioned is “typical” French (or broadly European) culture. The weird looks, teachers making fun of you (happens a lot with French teachers for someone reason), being uppity about the language, etc.
Prinnykin@reddit
I lived in France for 10 years and it was so hard. I feel you. I ended up with severe depression living there.
FYI, you can open a euro bank account online with Revolut or Wise. No need for all the paperwork, you just need your passport from memory.
franckJPLF@reddit
Welcome to the country where almost everything sucks. 🫡 Run away asap. 🙌
Minimum_Painter_7106@reddit (OP)
I assume you’ve lived in France before right?
franckJPLF@reddit
Born there, lived/suffered there. 🫡
Minimum_Painter_7106@reddit (OP)
What kind of things did you suffer with if you don’t mind me asking?
ExcuseMeNobody@reddit
Not OP but struggle of finding internships / jobs is not just for newcomers / immigrants. I have a group of friends that go to a top uni in Paris and have to send literally THOUSANDS of applications and still struggle to land interviews.
Housing conditions would depend on what city you're staying in, but it's not a very out of the ordinary to have a poor experience.
Also I agree - it almost feels like some minorities tend to take out all the racism they've been through on the weaker (even more marginalized minorities or newcomers)
Minimum_Painter_7106@reddit (OP)
So what will your friends do concerning the jobs? I always thought recruiters in France cared more about the prestigious universities Housing is generally expensive expect if living in a shared apartment
Sharklo22@reddit
This is your mistake, there is no such thing as a prestigious university in France. Now, if you were in a Grande Ecole, things might be different
franckJPLF@reddit
Unemployment, housing crisis, violence/theft, things never working, recurrent strikes, ambiant aggressiveness, everybody trying to scam you, costly services that are bad, everything works with personal connections (jobs/studies).
tawny-she-wolf@reddit
Also pay is just terrible (I am also French and promptly left after completing my masters degree)
Minimum_Painter_7106@reddit (OP)
Damn that sucks. Yea there are a lot of scammers. As for violence/theft, haven’t experienced any
franckJPLF@reddit
Well, brace for impact. 🤣
HuckleberryExotic265@reddit
My apartment door was kicked down the day I moved and all my electronics stolen so yeah, brace for impact 😅
Jumpy_Look6010@reddit
My bike was stolen from the garage while I was on vacation
Significant_Sky_8986@reddit
I recently made friends with a French professor in the Himalayas and all I’ve heard about France is pretty pathetic. He’s left his own country for good
tawny-she-wolf@reddit
I think a lot of what you describe isn't specific to France, just to moving to Western Europe or a foreign country in general:
aya0204@reddit
I live in Portugal and it’s not a very racist country. I found the U.K., Spain, France, Italy way more racist.
soytuamigo@reddit
Man Spain. Don't get me started on Spain. Great country though and it's very much not everyone but the racism you do find it's so disgustingly in your face it makes your blood boil.
tawny-she-wolf@reddit
Netherlands too according to my bf
DarthPleasantry@reddit
I think you’re right and you should tough it out for the year, but then move as soon as possible. Just do what you’re doing and be honest with yourself that it’s not great, and since it’s temporary, that’s ok. Find sympathetic people to talk to online about how not-good it is. If you do any kind of fiber arts as a hobby, even a little, Ravelry.com has a great international community.
I get why other people are saying you should move now, but it think you’d have an easier time finding a new opportunity with this completed academic year on your resume.
soytuamigo@reddit
Best advice.
CaptainFungiNails@reddit
Hey, I immigrated to France 11 years ago and know how tough it can be. Are you living close to a big city so that you can find your tribe? Are you able to move closer to a big city?
Minimum_Painter_7106@reddit (OP)
I’m schooling in a big city but staying in a small town
LumpaLard@reddit
OP, sorry you're having a harder time than you should be.
If you can at all afford it, move closer to the big city and where there is a younger/more student-y population and join any subs on here that are specific to your area/region of study esp. as you can speak French. That should help. Don't take the "can't speak French" to heart; it's a French thing and nothing to do with your ability to speak it which is perfectly fine.
Small-town France can be great but it sounds like where you're based, it's more closed off. Ditto branching out from your study specialism and getting involved in more student societies that might not be related.
UK is expensive relative to France but remember - you are young, your whole life is ahead of you and if you decide to stick it out in France or if you decide to leave, in the grand scheme of your life, you'll look back on this period as 'meh' that happened!
Wish you well.
antizana@reddit
That’s rough. But you’re asking has anyone experienced this… well, what you describe is pretty standard for being in a new place for only a month or two.
Usually people need at least 6 months to feel like they have the hang of it, more so at 1 year. Yes, it’s tough, but your French will get better with all this practice and so will everything else if you stick it out.
Minimum_Painter_7106@reddit (OP)
Hope so. I’ve also lived in China for 4 years, learnt to speak Chinese and felt at home in less than a year. Although I felt it was easier to feel at home in China for some reason
mmoonbelly@reddit
It’s an accent thing. If you work hard in your diction, they’ll still ignore you, but you’ll at least be tolerated. (I get my kids to repeat my words in an authentic French accent, so I feel your pain (English native speaker, C1/2 French but heavily English accented - some people are just idiots in France).
Minimum_Painter_7106@reddit (OP)
Honestly I don’t get why accent is a problem to some. At least if you can speak the language it should be fine. Their English also has a strong accent as well
mmoonbelly@reddit
Comprehension. My r’s are forward English not back of the throat French. Makes the liaisons incomprehensible.
soytuamigo@reddit
Accent is a thing every country you move to. The French are just a holes. It's the truth even if not PC. Anyone who's spent time there knows this.
Jumpy_Look6010@reddit
As I have already written, France is the most hostile country I have ever seen
stupid_shit92@reddit
No this is not normal. I have moved to different countries in the world and this kind of bullying is not normal.
Jumpy_Look6010@reddit
France is a hostile country with arrogant and mean people. I lived in Italy and regret coming to France. I will return to my native country
wephep@reddit
I mean, it's not standard to be excluded/bullied by your grad school classmates. Sounds way worse than normal rough adjustment period stuff.
franckJPLF@reddit
Sorry but the problem isn’t her French speaking skills. France is a country where everything wants to make your life miserable on a daily basis. Even as a white guy it was hell.
antizana@reddit
That does sound like a tough experience for you.
What we can probably agree on is France is a country that wants to intensely do everything in French, with little allowance for a foreigner’s learning curve. B1 is not that high a level for that sort of country.
franckJPLF@reddit
But that far from being the main issue. Speaking perfect French does not make your life easier.
antizana@reddit
As far as I’m concerned, the main issue is OP has barely spent much time there and it takes - in my experience - at least six months to get the hang of a place. that has held true for me also in the countries I lived in where I never learned the language, but language is often a part of that integration experience & better language skills can only help.
franckJPLF@reddit
Hard disagree
antizana@reddit
That’s ok
littlepretty__@reddit
I really feel for you- I experienced very similar experiences when I lived in Paris. It was incredibly isolating because everyone who has never lived in France or in Paris thinks it’s so great. So it was hard to have anyone to sympathise with me.
I was there for a two year master program and left after one year because I was so incredibly unhappy and with the exception of my other immigrant classmates all of the French students snd professors were incredibly mean spirited. It’s a country where no one lifts anyone else up and it is filled with competition for your peers.
Even still, I hate how much I still love France and French culture, anytime I visit (I live in Brussels now) I’m stunned by the beauty of the towns and cities the quality of the food and the lifestyle. I would leave after your year is up.
Useful-Engineering59@reddit
I would also recommended to find a different church. What pastor or church community not help their members? That’s not very Christ like.
KateHamster67@reddit
I moved to France for studies as well. It took me 1.5 years to go through the basic adaptation and even more to feel like being part of the society. But it is definitely worth it. Also, I'm sorry to hear that you are experiencing racism. It can be quite common in smaller cities in France, unfortunately. If you manage to move to a bigger city, I'm sure it will be better
Chiaramell@reddit
I can understand that you feel shitty and I would feel the same reading your post. If you have the opportunity to leave I'd leave. You are young and this "mistake" even if it's not your fault is not pushing you back.
Minimum_Painter_7106@reddit (OP)
Well I have thought about leaving but knowing how fast time flies and that my course is only 1 year, I’d thought to maybe try and endure in the meantime. Flight tickets are also quite expensive but that’s not a reason to hold me back
SweetAlyssumm@reddit
What will you do about the internship though? That sounds like a real problem.
Minimum_Painter_7106@reddit (OP)
Yes it is. Will just keep searching or try to get something in the university
HuckleberryExotic265@reddit
i would recommend to sing up on linkedin if people working in medicinal chemistry are on there, and write to people working in France from the same origins as you and explain the situation. They may be more understanding of the struggle having gone through it themselves, at best you will get an internship, at worst, noone will reply which ain’t the end of the world.
Minimum_Painter_7106@reddit (OP)
Okay thanks for the advice. Will give it a try
reasonablecassowary@reddit
Finish, then apply to PhD program in USA. Most have free tuition plus a salary.
acknb89@reddit
So just move back then
No_Zookeepergame1972@reddit
Big brain award goes to you. Congrats, have some cheese and bread.
acknb89@reddit
I prefer wine with my cheese and bread
doesitevencount@reddit
just shut the fuck up
Minimum_Painter_7106@reddit (OP)
It’s not as easy as it looks
-chinoiserie@reddit
What exactly about French culture do you like after experiencing all that…?
Minimum_Painter_7106@reddit (OP)
I like their politeness. I’ve come to realize there’s a difference between being nice and polite. Also their pastries and music
-chinoiserie@reddit
Having to hesitate whether or not to respond to your greetings is polite? Gee wee we have different standards of politeness I guess.
But you’re already there, so I hope you meet actual nice people that value your presence.
franckJPLF@reddit
Yeah the French standard for politeness is more something like “Bonjour et va te faire enculer”. 😂
franckJPLF@reddit
Politeness? Reality is going to bite you very hard and very soon. Pastries… really depends on the shop. Quality varies a lot. Music … it’s mostly shit rap music these days.
Vladimir_Putting@reddit
Well, personally I've never been to any city where the service staff are more outright rude and disrespectful than Paris.
To me it seems like you are experiencing the actual French culture and it's not matching up with the ideal we get through the media.
Ok_Magician_3884@reddit
Try to focus on your study and make international friends, also don’t miss the Christmas markets
LyleLanleysMonorail@reddit
Nobody should sacrifice mental health and social isolation to force it to try to work. Not every country is for everyone and that's ok.
freebiscuit2002@reddit
It has only been 6 weeks or so, which is nothing. I would give it more time and widen your social circle if possible. Moving countries can be hard at first if you don’t have a support network. If you can take the opportunity to improve your French, that should help a lot. Good luck!
SnorkBorkGnork@reddit
I'm sorry you experience this. I experienced a lot of racism during my student years and I studied in the country I was raised in. It sucks.
The only thing you have to do is get your MA degree. For all the other stuff you can look around and switch places or stop going. Look for a church that is welcoming, people in your spare time that are welcoming, maybe look up other expats or exchange students (maybe they're not in your class, but surely there are some on your university). It's a hassle, but you could also consider moving house.
French can be a very useful language to know -depending on where you want to work and live later in life (France, Belgium, Canada, lots of countries in Africa). So people insisting on you speaking French might not be all bad, but learning a new language is tough and can be isolating. My wife has a lot of friends in Brussels who only speak French and she has decided to bite the bullet and learn it, but she has also been frustrated at times with people's impatience or felt isolated when she couldn't follow the conversation and no one bothered to help out.
Don't waste your time with a pastor who won't talk to you or trying to befriend people (regardless of race) who snub you or who prefer to hang out with each other. Life is too short already.
LouisGlouton@reddit
Happy to help if you need a hand trying to navigate french bureaucracy/paperwork. A lot of my friends and colleagues have had a real bad time trying to understand the way things work, but I can assure it works and you will find your space sooner than you think. Courage!
doesitevencount@reddit
Hey, I came as a student here some years ago, you can message me privately if you wanna talk more about it, will try my best to help !
GTFOHY@reddit
Find one good friend.
hobogrinder@reddit
yo find expat communities boah, if big city then no big deal. accept that specific inclusivity and nepotism exist in french society as in any other. don't perceive unfrendliness as a sign of arrogance or personal attitude, it is rather due to insecurity of some infantile peoples coping with superiority complex. for internship after sending applications, try going to desired facilities in person under the pretext that you need follow up/feedback, if needed make up any kind of stories to sneak inside or get directions to your potential curator, to whom then your directly appeal. best time to catch peoples is monday-tuesday after lunch xd. sure some will not like such a blunt approach (who cares), but others would appreciate enthusiasm and assertiveness.
LolaStrm1970@reddit
When you are in a tough academic environment, I think happiness is very important and impacts your performance. You can tough it out for a year or cut your losses. A year isn’t that long but you need to try and find a way to find some joy. Is there an expat community you can tap into?
Minimum_Painter_7106@reddit (OP)
There are but all live far away in different cities. The ones I’ve met are workers and are very busy. Also fellow students as well but we are all busy
ghikkkll@reddit
Look into ESN. They are specifically aimed towards Erasmus students, but international students can attend as well (I do as an international student in Italy). I’ve made so many friends through it!
Minimum_Painter_7106@reddit (OP)
Thanks will check it out