Disagree with the contrarian bit but it can be an anarchist take. John Milton described the sentiment brilliantly in Paradise Lost. "Better to reign in hell than serve in heaven."
I like to believe that Illuvatar or the "divine" manifests in positive emotions like love, empathy and.. pity. "It was pity that stayed Bilbo's hand" and that act of mercy was a manifestation of the divine and ultimately led to the events which ended up saving the world.
Illuvatar had won before the war even began because he planted the seeds of compassion into the hearts of the hobbits.
I like that explanation better than "oh I'll just watch my creation destroy itself for awhile then I'll intervene lul"
Warhammer 40K. There are literally Chaos Gods beyond the warp, the God-Emperor of Man lived for an eternity and fought and knew about these beings but still enforced atheism with an Iron fist. Killing entire civilisations in the name of atheism, as he had seen how much death holy wars would cause and he wanted humanity to thrive.
Then his son Horus kinda fucking killed him and now he is stuck in a golden throne, not alive but also not dead, as he is the lighthouse that humanity uses to travel through space since he casts a big beacon that makes it possible to navigate in the Warp. And humanity is fighting a Holy war against the rest of the galaxy in his name.
Elder Scrolls "dwarves" are actually steampunk Elves who don't consider the gods worthy of worship. Instead they tried to build their own colossal war machine god and got snapped out of existence for their hubris
Sauron is a Maiar who became Melkor's satellite, drawing heavy influence from the Valar who directly opposed Eru who is essentially God. Melkor grew a deep hatred for all that Eru created and sought to destroy it without purpose, but Sauron saw purpose and wished to usurp God to create utopia. Sauron obviously is no where strong as the OG bad guy so who employed trickery to bend the will of others to suit his needs, the most well know method being that of the rings which Celebrimbor helped forge. As long as free will reigned in the world, Sauron's plans for utopia would never succeed. By the time Lord of The Rings happens, most of Eru's influence over the world had faded. The idea all along was to have man inherit Eä, the world, because of their meek behavior while the Valar and their descendents would always have higher ambitions that would inevitably bring about cataclysm to the world time and time again. Most of the higher beings already did not like this and Sauron especially. Him seeing this golden opportunity to regain his corporeal form and conquer Middle Earth during the Third Age set forth the events for Lord of The Rings.
Melkor is basically Satan and Sauron is Hitler. There you have it.
How could Iluvatar's influence fade? Didn't the chorus at the beginning of time pre-determine most of the major events? Iluvatar's interventions to remedy the discordant melodies seem to correspond to the three ages. Also, he is the source of the flame imperishable.
Sauron’s real goal was to establish order in middle earth. He tried to repent by doing good deeds instead of asking the valar for forgiveness directly as he was instructed but that didn’t work and he knew the Valar did not forgive him. He wasn’t like his master Melkor who just wanted destruction and chaos. In my mind Sauron wanted to bring order to the world so he could say to the Valar “see this was a viable way of bringing order to middle earth”.
Total compliance and the destruction of free will is order, but thats what would happen had Gandalf taken the ring and exploited its power, im not convinced Sauron has that same goal
Select-Ad-3872@reddit
Its called being a contrarian, an anarchist. How can a 4chan poster not understand
FluffyMcKittenHeads@reddit
Why do these websites hold such significance for you people? It’s a fucking message board not a personality.
watchurdadshower@reddit
Says the guy who uses a rifle to hide the fact he has a small weenie 😂😂
thatgymdude@reddit
or redditors for that matter
SKULL_SHAPE_ANALYZER@reddit
It’s called being Jewish
ImmaSuckYoDick2@reddit
Disagree with the contrarian bit but it can be an anarchist take. John Milton described the sentiment brilliantly in Paradise Lost. "Better to reign in hell than serve in heaven."
reallynunyabusiness@reddit
Eru Illuvatar (God in Tolkein's stories) actually intervened in the destruction of the Ring, he made Gollum trip.
Tolkein actually confirmed that in a letter.
He could have intervened much longer ago but decided the best thing to do was make a crackhead trip and fall into a volcano.
LittleJohnnyBrook@reddit
Do you think the one ring and the way it corrupts can be a metaphor for drug addiction?
AdamKDEBIV@reddit
No because apparently Tolkien was a retard who hated analogies so according to him 100% of his books was just weeb shit
curiousbasu@reddit
It is
SpellRush@reddit
I like to believe that Illuvatar or the "divine" manifests in positive emotions like love, empathy and.. pity. "It was pity that stayed Bilbo's hand" and that act of mercy was a manifestation of the divine and ultimately led to the events which ended up saving the world.
Illuvatar had won before the war even began because he planted the seeds of compassion into the hearts of the hobbits.
I like that explanation better than "oh I'll just watch my creation destroy itself for awhile then I'll intervene lul"
Just sayin :p
horiami@reddit
Tbf basically nobody could voluntarily throw the ring in the volcano
iMisstheKaiser10@reddit
Stupid question, but are there any works of fantasy where there are atheists even though god(s) exist?
bjergdk@reddit
Warhammer 40K. There are literally Chaos Gods beyond the warp, the God-Emperor of Man lived for an eternity and fought and knew about these beings but still enforced atheism with an Iron fist. Killing entire civilisations in the name of atheism, as he had seen how much death holy wars would cause and he wanted humanity to thrive.
Then his son Horus kinda fucking killed him and now he is stuck in a golden throne, not alive but also not dead, as he is the lighthouse that humanity uses to travel through space since he casts a big beacon that makes it possible to navigate in the Warp. And humanity is fighting a Holy war against the rest of the galaxy in his name.
zeroyt9@reddit
Chaos Gods are not real Gods, they are just extra-dimensional aliens.
bjergdk@reddit
Real
vorpvorpvorp@reddit
Imperial Truth pilled
vorpvorpvorp@reddit
Elder Scrolls "dwarves" are actually steampunk Elves who don't consider the gods worthy of worship. Instead they tried to build their own colossal war machine god and got snapped out of existence for their hubris
tastybabyhands@reddit
Any pathfinder lore, they know powerful beings exist but reject the worship
SplashingChicken@reddit
Sauron is a Maiar who became Melkor's satellite, drawing heavy influence from the Valar who directly opposed Eru who is essentially God. Melkor grew a deep hatred for all that Eru created and sought to destroy it without purpose, but Sauron saw purpose and wished to usurp God to create utopia. Sauron obviously is no where strong as the OG bad guy so who employed trickery to bend the will of others to suit his needs, the most well know method being that of the rings which Celebrimbor helped forge. As long as free will reigned in the world, Sauron's plans for utopia would never succeed. By the time Lord of The Rings happens, most of Eru's influence over the world had faded. The idea all along was to have man inherit Eä, the world, because of their meek behavior while the Valar and their descendents would always have higher ambitions that would inevitably bring about cataclysm to the world time and time again. Most of the higher beings already did not like this and Sauron especially. Him seeing this golden opportunity to regain his corporeal form and conquer Middle Earth during the Third Age set forth the events for Lord of The Rings.
Melkor is basically Satan and Sauron is Hitler. There you have it.
d1stor7ed@reddit
How could Iluvatar's influence fade? Didn't the chorus at the beginning of time pre-determine most of the major events? Iluvatar's interventions to remedy the discordant melodies seem to correspond to the three ages. Also, he is the source of the flame imperishable.
SplashingChicken@reddit
I'm not the biggest expert. But wasn't everything besides man supposed to fade away eventually?
NUmbermass@reddit
Sauron’s real goal was to establish order in middle earth. He tried to repent by doing good deeds instead of asking the valar for forgiveness directly as he was instructed but that didn’t work and he knew the Valar did not forgive him. He wasn’t like his master Melkor who just wanted destruction and chaos. In my mind Sauron wanted to bring order to the world so he could say to the Valar “see this was a viable way of bringing order to middle earth”.
Defective_Falafel@reddit
How was baiting Numenor into attacking Valinor "bringing order"?
NOChiRo@reddit
Total compliance and the destruction of free will is order, but thats what would happen had Gandalf taken the ring and exploited its power, im not convinced Sauron has that same goal
NUmbermass@reddit
That was after. At that point Sauron had accepted that he was evil. He hated the Numenorians and wanted them to suicide by cop.
Chadzuma@reddit
Interesting, but are you sure it wasn't CRUELTY, MALICE, AND THE WILL TO DOMINATE ALL LIFE?
Chadzuma@reddit
Bro they tell you right there in the movie, it was cruelty, malice and the will to dominate all life you idiots it was right there
Prestigious_Glass146@reddit
He just wanted his own slice of heaven in middle earth. Tulkas beat the hell out of his master.
apscep@reddit
He is himself a semi-God
bjergdk@reddit
Well, more of an angel.
SlimShadyM80@reddit
Just because god exists doesnt mean he isnt a cunt
JJonah_Jamesonn@reddit
Isn't melkor the one opposing god for spite and sauron just wants the earth to be under his rule.
horiami@reddit
Yes, sauron wants order
Generated-Owl@reddit
Autheism 🤷♂️
p4th_m4k3r@reddit
Why do people try it irl? Because what else are you going to do?
Blightsun@reddit
Jews in a nutshell
Elani77@reddit
ask satan (melkor)
Extremelysolid8492@reddit
He was liberal
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
[removed]
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