Anon on yellow paint tutorials

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Jeager122@reddit

Both of the Portal games are great examples of signposting that actually enhance the aesthetic and feel of the environment while still helping guide the player.

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williamsonmaxwell@reddit

Sort of cheating though? because they are yellow painting, but the game is set inside a testing facility so the yellow painting makes sense

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trunks_the_drink@reddit

geez i wonder what happens in this part

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Paradox@reddit

Prepare to have your expectations subverted

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AutoJannietator@reddit

character walks near building with a door

camera focuses on door as the screen turns black and white with the door flashing

"Hmm, looks like that door can be opened." character says

game pauses, text box pops up

"Doors can be opened."

Click Ok

game resumes, mission log updated

"Open the door."

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Zephandrypus@reddit

This feel like some PS1 horror game shit

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williamsonmaxwell@reddit

“You don’t have the right ‘o’ you don’t have the right all the more you don’t have the right”

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iSayWhatYouAllThink@reddit

ERROR! Please drink verification can!

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Kibermozgai@reddit

You forgot about "Do it a few more times" before it let you go

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There have been loads of mechanics in the past. The "twinkle" of an item in Resident Evil. Various types of vision that help you focus on key locations in a room. Its not difficult to try new things. It's just that there's souch pressure on developers to not make things to obtuse. It's why I respect From Software so much. They have no problem with gamers missing huge chunks of content. If you don't find it that's your problem

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XDDDSOFUNNEH@reddit

It's pretty based of them.

I remember playing Elden Ring and missing a ton of stuff.

Instead of going "REEEEE WHY ISN'T EVERYTHING MARKED?!?!" I just said oh well, I'm a dumbass, and it's more stuff to see when I replay in a few years.

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Poopdicks69@reddit

I'm replaying now while looking for answers online. I missed so much it's like a whole new game.

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rkoy1234@reddit

minor spoilers for dlc

i >!burnt the fucking tree!< after like 4 hrs in the dlc not knowing it will lock me out of like 90% of the quest content.

had to restart after rushing the final boss smh

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PlzDontBanMe2000@reddit

Killed messmer and saint of bud in 4 hours? That’s impressive

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TypicalMootis@reddit

The yellow paint problem will never go away as long as gaming is mainstream. Normies are fucking stupid.

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Givants@reddit

Is there yellow paint in Elden ring?

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Uvanimor@reddit

Yes, in the form of ‘guiding light’ on your minimap and certain sites of grace (chedkpoints) but it’s subtle and more of a ‘you need to generally go south east to progress the main quest’.

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komali_2@reddit

no, absolutely not, no. yellow paint would mean that hoppable gravestones or jump puzzles would be more obviously marked, or secret walls etc.

Elden ring has no problem letting you miss entire fucking zones because you didn't pay attention to the floorplan of a place you're exploring

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Uvanimor@reddit

You’re the reason doors with handles say pull… This is a you problem.

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PlzDontBanMe2000@reddit

Dude there are literally walls that you have no way of knowing have something behind them until you hit them and they disappear. That’s a far cry from bright yellow “go here” bullshit all over the place

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BotAccount2849@reddit

Games are too handholdy, but you really can't say Elden Ring is easily understandable. Tons of people can easily miss getting to the Deeproot Depths since you either have to beat the Gargoyle boss and know that the grave that you barely see behind the waterfall near the grace is interactable or you have to realize that the chest behind an illusory wall is a distraction and that there's a 2nd illusory wall in one of the hardest to reach areas in the game.

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cosplay-degenerate@reddit

And I still manage to find all of this on my own thanks to my instincts and my logical brain telling me "I haven't been over there yet. I can kinda see that there is nothing there but let's check anyway"

I then tilt my stick in the direction until I am "over there", which now allows me to see things much closer and that coffin...it stands out a bit..oh a prompt telling me I can interact with it, wow.

Elden ring is not as complex as you think. People are literally just too dumb to realize their options.

As alien as it feels to me, I can totally see millions of people acting the complete opposite:

"I scanned the room from 300m away by spinning my camera real fast and I didn't see anything glowing. I conclude therefore that nothing of interest exists here and will ask myself "how was I supposed to know that?" later".

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komali_2@reddit

Sure but elden ring is more complicated than your average yellow paint game these days. I'm saying I'll take elden ring over other AAA slop any day. Haven't played a COD since mw2 and don't intend to. Haven't played an AC since 2 and don't intend to (actually that's a lie i'll probably play black flag at some point)

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Uvanimor@reddit

The thing is, is so many bosses are recycled in Elden Ring because you’re not supposed to catch everything - it’s ok if you don’t explore absolutely everything, because so long as you explore a little, you will likely still see that very same boss elsewhere.

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BotAccount2849@reddit

Yeah obviously. But as the other guy was saying, the game doesn't tell you about this stuff. The guiding lights only tell you how to progress the main objective. It doesn't tell you anything about the side content, which is usually what handholdy games do.

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ScrewdShadow@reddit

Those are pretty standard situations if you come from Dark Souls. By that point you're supposed to have the mind frame that secrets could be hidden anywhere. I can see new players missing out on them, but as the other guy said, it's not like the game isn't afraid of you missing out content.

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BotAccount2849@reddit

Secrets within secrets are pretty rare, even with in Dark Souls. I've seen multiple comments from people with hundreds of hours in the game not knowing about those paths. My point isn't that the game isn't afraid of you missing content, but rather that stuff is intentionally let unhighlighted. I don't mind that it's obtuse. I'm just saying that it's nowhere close to being handholdey like other games.

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komali_2@reddit

I enjoyed Elden Ring and did just fine in it so not sure what you're coming at me for.

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TheRoyalSniper@reddit

The spirit ashes. God I've never seen a community do such a 180 than the souls community. Used to be all about getting good and enjoying the difficulty of the game. Now if you use summons and cheese strats to kill bosses without them even looking at you you're heckin valid!

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Foraaikouu@reddit

we should have gatekeeped gaming better the past decade

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cosplay-degenerate@reddit

I don't know how we should have accomplished that.

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IlIllIlIllIlIl@reddit

More slurs

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PlzDontBanMe2000@reddit

More titty armor

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HeightAdvantage@reddit

Time to int into another game of league you say?

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Dunois721@reddit

Normies?

Back in my day we called them " Casuals"

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JJJSchmidt_etAl@reddit

Respecting intelligence is racist!!11

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DIAL8_TRAINEE@reddit

I agree. TND.

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yeetusdeletusgg@reddit

The new dorder?

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SalvationSycamore@reddit

Trump Nerangement Dyndrome

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Morrghul@reddit

We‘re still talking about normies right?

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Kosame_Furu@reddit

Sure haha

:/^)

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IndirectFire_Chad10E@reddit

You are one of the greatest trolls of our time, much respect to you

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TypicalMootis@reddit

The_Jews_Did_This.gif

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GD_Insomniac@reddit

Roguelites are truly the most accessible game genre. The devs can put in crazy difficulty for the endgame content, but even players who struggle on baby mode still make progress when they lose.

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raptorsoldier@reddit

Lorn's Lure

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doodwtfomglol@reddit

Gaming journalists are to blame

The paint is for them so they don't write about how the game sucks because it's confusing to navigate in the 30 minutes they play before writing a review

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TypicalMootis@reddit

Agreed, but another issue is bad design. They have to mark the path because if there's a bunch of invisible walls closing off obviously accessible routes and ladders laying around that go nowhere the average player is going to get frustrated, especially during a tense section. Compare the chase sequences in RE Village vs Dying Light

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gay_for_hideyoshi@reddit

People really need to go back to the first Zelda Game or if not play the early Tomb Raider

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PlzDontBanMe2000@reddit

I don’t know how game reviewers didn’t shit their pants at Elden ring

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5herl0k@reddit

god the amount of times I go:

wow ok this would have been an obvious solution in real life but the problem is, 99% of the objects in this game are noninteractable so I have no context to know which I can use.

a burglar rushes you in a game to kill you, you see a set of kitchen knives, a chair you could use to pin, and a vase to throw, but no, it's that object you had to use so congrats you're dead.

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mab0roshi@reddit

You sound like the kind of guy who should be playing Immersive Sims.

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noobtube228@reddit

Old school point and click games are notorious for this.

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NEETscape_Navigator@reddit

And a garden fence is an immovable and unscalable object when the devs want it to be. A tank wouldn't dent it.

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Din_Plug@reddit

And a fallen tree in the path. I am R2D2 and a small tree that a kindergartener could crawl over completely blocks the path. I can also not just go around the tree as my tiny wheels suck on grass.

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Paradox@reddit

Ah yes, how couldn't I have guessed that the way to kill the burglar was to stab him in the eye with the carrot. Silly me. The kitchen knife wouldn't work, obviously

Fucking Zork did it better

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MrBummer@reddit

The original Mirror's Edge did this best. An object you needed to climb on or jump off to use for the intended path forward would turn red once you got close. And this worked so well because the entire art direction of the game is whites and bright colors contrasting.

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TheWorldEndsWithCake@reddit

Also fuck ubisoft for making this a thing in games

Honestly, some of the Assassin’s Creed games (like 2, Brotherhood) did this really well. The bits of white blended aesthetically with the environment, and the plausibility of canvas everywhere was a reasonable tradeoff for the visual signalling.

Blame the industry for forcing itself to make big dumb games for big dumb audiences to make more money. The “good” solutions take more dev time to get right, and that’s not how AAA works anymore. Big budget films do the same things, and smart people’s eyes roll into their skulls when things are overexplained or dumbed down, but it has to happen to earn back inflated budgets.

Tl;dr: don’t buy AAAA slop if you don’t like it, it’s by-and-large not made for intelligent audiences. The industry is going to collapse anyway, just play good, low-budget games.

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izanamilieh@reddit

I play old games and it makes me so happy to not only play good games but experience the history and evolution of franchises.

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Idkwhattoputhere3003@reddit

Assassins Creed also used stuff like bird shit to show ledges you can grab, which is pretty funny

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Paradox@reddit

The bird shit was actually to show you that there was a hay bale below, so you could leap off the roof without killing yourself.

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Idkwhattoputhere3003@reddit

I think at least in Black Flag they used it on some island rocks? Might be wrong though, but yea they definitely used them on the synchronization points

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Paradox@reddit

Sync points were usually marked by an eagle

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Idkwhattoputhere3003@reddit

It was the synch point ledges right? Like most buildings/shipwrecks/lookout towers/ect that had synch points had a outcrop of wooden scaffolding that an eagle would perch on, and under the eagle there was some straw and bird shit

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Paradox@reddit

Every lookout also had a hay bale or open water you could dive into

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Idkwhattoputhere3003@reddit

Yes sirrrr, god early assassins creed just hit something in my brain that I can’t reproduce. Probably being 14 again, but black flag is still amazing

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TheWorldEndsWithCake@reddit

I forgot about that, that is funny lol. Bang on for what I’m saying, to make it look organic you have to have time to come up with diegetically cohesive ideas and implement them.

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QuintusMaximus@reddit

I think the yellow paint thing was started by naughty dog in uncharted, it just became a quintessential sign for "I'm climbable" I remember in assassin's creed 2, brotherhood etc, they would put things in the world that fit their location as parkour "starters" and they always had s white cloth drapes over them, so it was visible, but didn't stick out like a sore thumb.

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ZMowlcher@reddit

No its literally darksydephil. He's to blame.

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Flyntloch@reddit

So I honestly don't mind the yellow paint - to a point. It makes sense in some areas of games but its when its thrown haphazardly. The most recent example I saw recently was the Dead Rising Remake in the first fight against Castillo; You are shown in the cutscene:

A man is shooting from a second floor.
You are given a gun as an option to fight (A new gun, actually)
The cutscene points you to a sign that says WELCOME
You are suggested to sneak around and climb up the building to deal with him.

As soon as you get control. When you run towards the welcome sign; there is literally yellow paint that says "THIS WAY" - right where the cutscene points you to the sign, where it already says WELCOME. I don't really mind the second yellow paint piece in this part of the game (It does the stupid "This way" again without any environmental details but also the game at this point does not tell you or teach you, that you can mantle things). But the first one has me just in disbelief.

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orangy57@reddit

make the paint gel and make it blue and orange and make you bounce around and go super fast when you touch it

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ICODE72@reddit

It should be a setting,

I think back to rdr where if you disable the map, voicelines would change to offer you directions to work with, morowind style.

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Kibermozgai@reddit

I wonder if any devs have the balls to do all that morrowind style navigation nowadays

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papeyy2@reddit

ac origins and odyssey (and probably the next ones idk i only like odyssey) have this be a toggle and you get to ask your quest giver for directions

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ICODE72@reddit

Despite having quest markers,but often times, bg3 does expect you to observe the environment and figure stuff out.

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darkness876@reddit

It’s almost like half life solved this problem decades ago

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perfectly_stable@reddit

INDIKA had yellow paint in one (1) section of the game - abandoned yellow paint factory

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BlazinAmazen@reddit

Its not a player problem its a dev problem. Developers create environments that focus on realism and looking pretty instead of being a functional game environment. They want to put 20 ledges in the environment but only one is climbable so oh well, lets just paint it yellow so the player knows what the hell in this cluttered, invisibly walled hellscape we have arbitrarily decided is interactable

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Flywolfpack@reddit

Game devs are possibly the worst people in the world

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Milesware@reddit

What about people in 4chan

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Free-Design-8329@reddit

Better than Redditors

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Lower_Preparation_83@reddit

based

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vmpafq@reddit

I've never encountered a better group tbh

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Squire_3@reddit

This became a problem in the Halo series, maps became less readable as graphics got better. Also less alien looking, the featureless environments were unnerving

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KneeDeepInTheDead@reddit

Lets make everything on screen a shade of gray, its what the children want

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IBringTheHeat1@reddit

Then hide a collectible or power up on one of the ledges that’s not colored but you can climb

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stinky-bungus@reddit

Honestly I'd rather keep progressing in a game and get to the next bit of action. Looking around for where to go next isn't fun gameplay, and usually it's just there to pad the length

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tacobellbandit@reddit

I enjoy games that actually hand my ass to me from time to time. It’s part of being a game. If I wanted a solely cinematic experience I’d go watch a movie. Good games are good games, amazing games are both a good game and a cinematic experience.

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dadvader@reddit

People are blaming game dev for whatever reason doesn't understand how game development work at all.

Believe me when i say this. They want the game to be hard just like you. Game dev especially programmer are not fucking stupid. They play game as much as any of you and know exactly what they want in their game.

The problem is when the game reach QA's hand. And QA being the dumbass that they are, making notes left and right about how the game is 'unclear' or 'not intuitive' when half the time it's them being a dumbfuck who doesn't learn gamesense or how to read. Let's not even get into the head designer who are about as dumb as the QA and demand design changes so it 'accommodates to modern audience.'

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faq4help@reddit

Lighting helps with this. Have everywhere the player shouldn't go darker than where they should go

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thEldritchBat@reddit

I think the resident evil remakes use the yellow paint in a good way tbh

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K3IRRR@reddit

Post the video of the guy who can't cuphead

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Rootsyl@reddit

The issue is if you put climbing into the game as a script event only, then you need to tell players when to use it. The fix to this is obviously assassins creed type of climbing mechanics where you can climb anywhere.

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nhremna@reddit

I like the yellow paint and the hand holding. I dont want to ever wonder what I need to be doing.

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deleted_by_reddit@reddit

[removed]

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jmarFTL@reddit

You fix it by designing your game so you don't need it. For example in Breath of the Wild there is no real need for yellow paint because everything is climbable. If you need to get somewhere there's typically multiple ways to do so. So there's no need for paint because there isn't one path to get to where you need to go.

But in something like God of War the paint is somewhat necessary because there are specific ledge points where you can climb, or drop down, etc. There are also some areas where you duck or squeeze through and others where you can't. The environment isn't designed in such a way to clearly distinguish between climbable/unclimbable so you end up with the paint (at least GoW has an in-lore reason for it by the way, something the other copycat devs mostly didn't bother with).

Both are great games BTW, but they're very very different philosophies - it's "here's the path we want you to take" vs. "everything is climbable."

Both of those by the way are great games

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creativity_null@reddit

Ideally the level design should be good enough to guide the player in the right direction without being intrusive. It's easier said than done, and I've seen terrible examples of games either being way too handholdy or being damn near impossible to progress through without a tutorial. It's either the yellow paint, or they put the path you need to take in the most obscure part of the level with zero indication you're supposed to go there. It's like some devs think difficulty means having to scour the entire level to find the unmarked door off in the corner you're supposed to go through.

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the_fuego@reddit

Shadow of the Tomb Raider actually did a pretty good job at fixing this. They made the environment stand out enough to where you can see it but it doesn't look completely stupid and covered in paint and then there are settings within the menu to adjust whether it lights up when you go into the hint mode.

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Fun1k@reddit

Simply don't guide the player. It won't sell as much, but you will have a playerbase consisting of intelligent people.

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TypicalMootis@reddit

Intelligent people are harder to get money out of with things like microtransactions / pre-orders / p2w / live service. Appealing to normies is how they make billions.

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BotAccount2849@reddit

Normies will eventually follow intelligent people so long as the games have a consistent fanbase and they grow in scope. Baldur's Gate 3 and Elden Ring only became as popular as they did because the creators appealed to their fanbases while upping the presentation.

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Fun1k@reddit

Yeah, I'm talking about based devs who want to stay faithful to vision and not sacrifice it for minmaxing money.

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AnotherScoutTrooper@reddit

It won't sell as much

Now you see the problem

I saw your other reply, problem is that the only remaining “based devs” who want to stay faithful to “their” vision are people who make indie games that just clone each other in endless circles of roguelike this and deckbuilder and pray that enough people are buy their slop out of pity

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Fun1k@reddit

endless circles of roguelike this and deckbuilder that

Dunno, pick better games if that's all you see. Naturally there are fewer exceptional indie games that don't bend over to normies, but they will build up a devoted community. Take My Summer Car, for example. Rojola made it the way he wanted, no compromises.

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Fauztinn@reddit

Half life is still the granddaddy of intuitive level design.

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throwawaypartypost@reddit

I always found this a bit odd in Horizon Zero Dawn. Why the hell would someone bother to put white paint on mountain ledges anyway?

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mactakeda@reddit

I haven't played HZD so don't know how visually jarring that problem is,

I have climbed rock faces with a pouch of chalk to mark reliable hand and foot holds for less experienced climbers following below, so it isn't entirely out of the question.

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TypicalMootis@reddit

You've never been hiking and seen dumbass gang tags on boulders?

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throwawaypartypost@reddit

If you refer to trail signs, then yes I saw them. I was referring to something else. I was talking about white paint on climbable edges on a mountain.

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UsrnameInATrenchcoat@reddit

Trail signs = Gang tags

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KneeDeepInTheDead@reddit

The Red Arrow gang was here

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Flywolfpack@reddit

Dis rok belong to yiggy street crewe

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TiradeShade@reddit

When I played through Horizon I just chalked up the painted ledges as something the tribes would use to mark hunting trails or vantage points.

The devs seemed to also occasionally added props to the top of these areas indicating usage by other people.

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Casual_Deer@reddit

This was my first experience to the yellow paint problem and I didn't mind it at first because my logic around it was that other tribes/individuals were also using these paths and needed to mark the way forward/which way was safe.

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Jack-of-Hearts-7@reddit

I got downvoted to oblivion for making fun of the fact Dead Space 2 had to tell you not once, but THREE TIMES that you have to use a CUTTING TOOL to CUT OFF THE LIMBS OF THE CREATURES because that's their weakness. They used the exact same excuses too.

"Gamers (me specifically) are stoopid and need hand holding hurr durr"

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TypicalMootis@reddit

And then DS3 just threw it out the window

Rivet minigun go brrrrrrrrrrrr

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Milesware@reddit

Honestly the whole climbing simulator schtick is pretty lame

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Comradechudder31@reddit

Silent Hill 2 remake solves this pretty well with subtly visible white towel for the intended location, or else you should work your ass to make every place distinct like in elden ring

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OwlPlayIt@reddit

It's a simple solution: go the Zelda way and let players climb anything and everything.

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iamrobotpenguin@reddit

The silent hill 2 remake does a great job with guiding players and even has the option to turn off certain tutorials and item notifications. Giving players the option to turn off the obnoxious visual guidance seems like good game design and i hope companies start to adopt it.

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EXTSZombiemaster@reddit

It's so funny to me that the pushable carts are half yellow, like they started using the normal coding then realized it wouldn't look good if all interactables like that were yellow so they just threw white rags over everything

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Fun_Extension9350@reddit

Still Wakes The Deep does it very well. It's yellow stuff, yeah, but it's all placed sensibly and makes sense in the context of the environment (An oil rig) where you follow yellow tarps, markers, gates, and other things.

Color-Coded navigation can go well, in the context of a game environment. Monster Hunter World had the tracking bugs, which made sense in the game environment. Some post-apocalypse game might not have someone running around leaving paint everywhere, but there could be trash, equipment or even shorthand scrawlings made for other survivors.

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Kibermozgai@reddit

Honestly feels like even with less amount of hints in SWTD it still too much. I kinda wish to replay it with higher amount now, just to see where they even gonna put it

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Kibermozgai@reddit

To be honest, I rather have yellow paint than all this 1980-era gaming with "where the fuck should I go" problem

Also good devs just makes it toggleable

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KingKiler2k@reddit

Put it into the story like Dying Light

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snha@reddit

Just make everything climbable. Playtesters only have this issue with handholding cause the devs want players to climb their way. The newer assassins creed games didn’t have this issue cause you could climb literally anything. Those games have other issues but that’s not the point here.

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Brave33@reddit

Just make it part of another difficulty level, Mirrors edge had the red things and you could turn it off, its just devs constrained for time or being lazy.

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rapteg@reddit

Yellow paint always existed in games in various forms. Like a rock having a distinctly straight edge that tells you that you can climb on it. Or conveniently placed red barrels = explosion. With modern graphic fidelity it's very difficult to tell players if you can interact with a thing or not (and how your character will interact with it) without resorting to UI elements that ruin Immersion (imagine a glowing triangle on top of a cliff that says "climb"), or adding a distinct colour to it (like yellow tape in new RE games)

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Galifrey224@reddit

They can use whatever method they want, but if I am stuck more than 30 seconds I am looking up the solution on the internet.

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Krazy_Kethan99@reddit

Me with Metro Exodus. As much as I love that game, it doesn’t hold your hand at all except for the marker on the map. Other than that, that game doesn’t help you at all really.

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ILL_BE_WATCHING_YOU@reddit

That’s fine, as long as you don’t demand that they cater to your kind.

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suica1983@reddit

Lighting, good level flow, reference points

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raptorsoldier@reddit

Half Life (not residue processing) and portal series

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Bardfinnsrealnemesis@reddit

And the original mirrors edge imo, things were highlighted red but it fit with the theme of the environment, and you could turn that shit off if you wanted to.

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pies1123@reddit

I played the Tomb Raider remasters recently and oh my god it's so nice to just be bee to see where you need to go from the knowledge of how high or far Lara can jump. Sometimes you actually fail the platforming section! I swear they've made platforming impossible to fail since the PS3 days.

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