‘We don’t know where the tipping point is’: climate expert on potential collapse of Atlantic circulation
Posted by metalreflectslime@reddit | PrepperIntel | View on Reddit | 56 comments
SgtPrepper@reddit
This is the biggie. When the current fails due to increasing amounts of fresh water from the Arctic, Northern Europe will freeze and the Eastern US will boil
rj07@reddit
Whatbis actionable about this?
ommnian@reddit
Depends on where you live and your long-term resources. The truth is when the AMOC stops (because, imho it's no longer 'if', but when), nobody knows what the effects will be. What any of our growing zones, weather, etc will be like. There's LOTS of predictions and guesses. But, nobody knows.
Personally, I continue to focus on sustainability long-term. I wouldn't live in a house without wood heat. I continue to experiment on growing more and more of our own food, and preserving it. Facilities that are solid and will withstand power outages, etc.
We continue to upgrade our fencing, our gardens, etc. More rain water collection, fencing for the garden, a greenhouse, and lower power usage devices (an induction stove, and either a heat-pump or on-demand water heater) are on my list. Other possibilities include more battery storage, and learning to raise pigs.
GWS2004@reddit
"and learning to raise pigs"
Less. meat.
melympia@reddit
Pigs can be raised on literal kitchen scraps - as long as you have enough of those.
But the same can be said for chickens or meat rabbits or... you get the idea. It all depends on where you live. If you live where nothing but coarse vegetation grows, and sparingly at that, raising goats just might be your answer.
ommnian@reddit
No. More sustainably raised meat. Less factory farmed meat. Pork is about the only meat we still buy from stores. Raising pigs on pasture, rotated behind sheep/goats, helps to eliminate parasites for all the livestock involved. And can cut your grain bill for them by 1/2-3/4 or more.
NCR_Ranger2412@reddit
Must be nice to have the money to manage that.
Druid_High_Priest@reddit
You might want to start thinking of cooling instead of heating, depending on your location.
ikeabahna333@reddit
Yes all of this. This is what I try to tell people when convos like this happen. The rich will abandon us to die in the society they destroyed. Food scarcity is the first thing that will happen and I think we already there. The crop failures are increasing and getting worse. Shelter is very important specially for cold regions. And also get to now your neighbors! be part of a communities!!!!!!. As ned stark put it hahah, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives
annethepirate@reddit
I agree. I'm all for knowing about climate and things, this isn't really the right sub, so can we keep this to r/collapse or one of the myriad climate subs? If people want to read that (as I have in the past), they can go there.
If it was "The temperature in England is going to permanently drop 5C in the next five years for sure", then fine, but this is not that.
I come here to check in on intel that I need to prep for, such as supply chain disruptions, but if the attitude of the 89,000+ people has changed to collapse, I guess I'll mind the door on the way out.
Beelzeburb@reddit
I’m glad you’re here for Tuesday. Some of us are here for Friday. 🫡
annethepirate@reddit
Ha, fair enough. I was, but I'm too poor to worry about Friday so it just made me miserable.
That's where I'm willing to accept that I just should just stop darkening this doorway. (just was hoping to find intel without it being the same as other subs.)
Beelzeburb@reddit
It’s generally a very grounded place comparatively. I think this is one of those inevitability’s that scare us enough to not be reasonable.
I’d stick around. You’d be welcome either way.
Raddish3030@reddit
Fear and creation of fear in others.
etharper@reddit
Somebody sounds paranoid.
UND_mtnman@reddit
Get your long-term food preps in order. AMOC collapse would drastically change growing zones, throwing food production off.
ShittyStockPicker@reddit
So, just general preparation as always.
beeskneecaps@reddit
I think it’s more of a wake up call to do long term prepping. I personally feel like some times most preppers are only prepping for (maybe) weeks and months of resources when it comes to disasters. But it’s probably time to stop being cute about prepping and figure out how to keep feeding yourself if the grocery stores are fully plundered.
Like I don’t know how to grow food quickly enough to stay alive so I think this is all a wake up call to start moving.
KarmaPharmacy@reddit
Potatoes. They are one of the most nutritionally dense foods. They’re relatively easy to grow. They’ll grow in harsh climates, and it relatively poor soil. Carrots or another root vegetable wouldn’t be a bad idea.
Don’t rely on game meat. If people are truly starving it’ll be like China during the great famine. People will eat that & fish first. Then their pets. Then each other. You’ll have to be able to protect whatever you have, because raiders will absolutely come for it. So if you’re doing this, consider doing it out of sight. Tell nobody.
There’s also DIY farmer stands for leafy greens and small scale nutrients.
Start your compost piles now, so that you can have good dirt on hand.
Druid_High_Priest@reddit
Thats rather strange because I have not been able to grow potatoes in about 12 years now. Nothing I do works so I assume it is due to environmental issues such as the crazy yellow light that makes up most of our growing season at my location. We never had yellow toned sunlight. We do now..
JayV30@reddit
What is "yellow toned sunlight"? I've never heard of such a thing. I googled but got nothing. Legitimate question, I'm very curious!
south-of-the-river@reddit
This. People need to be ready to pivot to a long-term very low calorie diet that can be produced in the confines of your property. Learn potato recipes.
Self contained aquaponic systems are a good idea.
Girafferage@reddit
More than that. The AMOC moves water up and east away from the eastern US. Without that current, we will have something akin to a perpetual high tide that gets higher with the actual tides dictated by the moon. Places like Florida that have deep aquafurs to supply water will suddenly be inundated with salt water, rendering most of the clean water in the state unviable.
The rain bands will shift south, creating new deserts and forcing farmers to adjust to new patterns or move to the locations that match where they used to live and that won't happen overnight.
Temps across northern Europe especially will drop significantly and not just in a single area. From Norway to Spain the temps will dip well below what has been the norm for generations, and there is nowhere in most of those countries to shift food production to and grids will struggle as winters become exceedingly harsh without the warm currents to keep moderate temps.
Heat will poop in the gulf fueling major and frequent catastrophic hurricanes that decimate the surrounding area while not being able to bleed off enough of the heat to cool down the waters and stop a similar storm from forming the week after.
It's a lot to prepare for and a bit far and above the average person's preps.
kirbygay@reddit
Yes it is. That's why its important for us to take this thing seriously and work together at mitigating the coming crisis. I don't have much faith in that tho
Girafferage@reddit
An important reason why need more viable political systems that we can actually hold accountable.
cuddly_degenerate@reddit
Learn some basic agriculture, extend your food supplies, be hyper vigilant about shortages, prepare for med shortages, and prepare for energy generation.
Lower priority is prepare yourself defensively. People don't turn on each other on a dime but someone who is literally starving to death will do a lot of shit to not starve to death, doubly so to keep their children from starving to death. Start by fostering community where you live and keep your preps secret. Have an ammunition stockpile and try to standardize what rounds are used between any firearms you care about. For me it's 5.56, 12 gauge, 9mm, and .22.
Stars3000@reddit
If it collapses Western Europe will cool rapidly(which actually might be a good thing) and sea water will rise quicker than people can adapt. Basically be wary of buying a house along the coast in a low lying area.
Spirited-Reputation6@reddit
Because we flew right by it. Back in 1970s.
etcre@reddit
Back in 2013 when I took a climate course as a gened in uni it was clear to me we were fucked. All these tipping points and the actions necessary to stop them were obviously an open closed book. That's when I made up my mind I would never have kids and all the milestones we've hit since then have been predictable to me, so I think I made the right decision.
Anyone who ever believed in coming back from where we were in 2013 was plain naive.
bak2skewl@reddit
Youre a slave to the new world order
Beelzeburb@reddit
My people already experienced the apocalypse and some made it through. There is an unbroken chain of survivors that lead to your existence. The future may be bleak but and all will eventually die. But I have hope that through love, determination and knowledge we will prevail in some form or another.
Kara_WTQ@reddit
The crazy part is Dennis Quaid knew all along...
Yiddish_Dish@reddit
Thats it, im gonna become a climate expert.
J0E_Blow@reddit
But there’re already so many here!
jarpio@reddit
Climate scientists not knowing anything and the headline framing it in a way that makes it sound ominous. Same as always
bucolucas@reddit
Both of those once-in-a-lifetime hurricanes in the past month are pretty ominous
jarpio@reddit
We’ve had a once in a lifetime hurricane every year for my entire life
GWS2004@reddit
Then it's worse than you think.
jarpio@reddit
Or they’re full of shit
GWS2004@reddit
Who?
bucolucas@reddit
They ignore the correct evidence and amplify any perceived mistakes, it's how you win
n12m191m91331n2@reddit
We see such hurricanes fairly frequently. And we only ever make note of them if they cause infrastructure damage...at which point they're exploited to push a political narrative that will transfer private property to ruling class.
Nemo_Shadows@reddit
That is because everyone is looking for a Magic Bullet in a variable dynamic system where the variables are out of anyone's hands, yet they keep demanding the acceptance of the FOR-PROFIT NARRATIVE of MAGIC BULLETS.
And that compounds the problems into never having any workable solutions for any parts that one may have in that variable as the moment you think you have one the variable changes on you.
You can only be prepared for whatever comes and nothing more or less and making it survivable is in reach IF it is done with this in mind.
SEE how that works?
N. S
DrJoeCrypto007@reddit
Sorry folks. The inferences weak and over dramatization are obvious. These things don’t just stop. There are ebbs and flows on this fine planet. 🌎 sure - learn to grow your own food (done that and do that). - be prepared for natural disasters (ready). But you will Not see the Atlantic heat movement go to zero in your lifetime. Heat flows from warm to cold. It will always do that. The colder the north becomes, the more apt the heat will go there.
Torch99999@reddit
Get out of here with your facts and science, we're trying to have a circle jerk to bullshit fear porn...or something like that.
icemagnus@reddit
about the 18th time this has been reposted.
thehourglasses@reddit
And not even remotely enough. This is civilization ending shit, my guy.
ommnian@reddit
Idk that id call it civilization ending. But it will absolutely cause chaos. It likely already is. Every few months I read a new article on the AMOC slowing. And, then I stop and think.
This summer has seen unprecedented drought in the Midwest, multiple hurricanes causing mass destruction in the south, and flooding all over. ALL of that is among the long-term predictions of the AMOC slowing/stopping.
icemagnus@reddit
I'm aware, as are all the people in this sub.
aipixelpioneer@reddit
Being aware isn’t enough
duplextw@reddit
Prepare for food scarcity, lack of drinking, water and increasingly unpredictably worse storms. flooding which is the worse I feels due to the contamination (brown zones, etc) of all that goes into the water in the areas which flood and look at the real reporting of flooding happening this week alone in Spain, France, SEA, SW US, etc on other Reddits that talk to that bc it’s vastly under reported in MSM.
The AMOC is only one of many tipping points along with the methane issue that’s getting worse as of the last couple years, the collapse of recent ice sheet in Antarctica and others in future, the similar and prob equally devastating issue of a blue ocean event among other tipping points like the South American forests no longer acting as carbon sinks. Even if we reduce fossil fuel usage remember that the burning of them has a Net gain and reduction in solar energy reaching the earth, so stopping fossil fuels must be paired with aerosol making others the net gain actually heats the planet further bc no fuels burnt means no particles in air reflecting solar and the planet will be warmer. So no easy solutions. Plus, how can you reduce fossil fuels without crashing the economy. Look up how fun degrowth would be and how much is needed to solve the problem as it’s like 50% or less of forget fossil fuel use and that would collapse the economy easily before that level was reached.
I think at one point one have to consider as with all this that these effects of climate change are not linear but exponential in how they take place and considering that there is a decent delay between cause in burning fossil fuels and its effect on climate along with multiple other tipping points working in tandem that one might consider this is quite possibly past a point of fixing it before say 3-4 degrees increase is already baked in when we are at about 1.5 deg now and look how bad it has become… so prep is smart for solutions should be focused on to avoid very adverse weather when it happens, and having stable and regenerative sources of potable water and food for the near and foreseeable future that you manage yourself…
but honestly at this point (we should have acted in the 1980s when we knew these things or earlier..) it is quite possible that one might consider just enjoying the time we have now bc by the end of this decade and very likely the next decade 2040- mid century, the world we know now will seem like a dream that we will miss by comparison. Sorry to ask especially those who have kids bc there’s lots of not good info on what’s to come.
Check out the other Reddits on climate change, etc, read the IPCC reports and studies out, Paul Beckwith, the recent report in last year by longterm climatologist about how they underestimated water vapor effects, and other such types, or deep adaptation info out there Jem Bendell, etc. it looks not great folks..
mrdrinc@reddit
10% chance of it happening within 100 years.
aldocrypto@reddit
We don’t know but please keep giving us money.
Dry_Catch7310@reddit
What if the ocean currents are intertwined with the magnetic field?
1988Trainman@reddit
They are not (at least in any ways that would actually matter).
Everything on earth is largely a heat engine.
diedlikeCambyses@reddit
We usually see them in the rear view mirror. But yes, we have lurched from 280ppm to almost 430ppm. What would one expect 💁♂️