what is the time period where vintage cars became more “safe”?
Posted by PhDFlopper69320@reddit | askcarguys | View on Reddit | 198 comments
I’ve always been fascinated with vintage cars and I’ve finally got to a point where i can get one, but something I’ve always known is that they are ridiculously unsafe. In my country, roads are horrible, and the drivers are even worse. So what is the period where cars still had that “old” aesthetic while not being a major life risk?
runtimemess@reddit
Airbag requirements came into effect in 1998
So, around there somewhere.
TheCamoTrooper@reddit
Many cars did have airbags before then aswell though so 1998 guarantee and kind of a pick and choose from 1985(ish?) on
Smooth-Apartment-856@reddit
My grandma had a 1992 Bonneville and I had a 1995 Thunderbird that both had dual airbags.
Drakeous98@reddit
Corvettes started having front passenger airbags staring with the '94 model year.
owensurfer@reddit
Dual front airbags were required in the US starting with ‘94 models. The requirement was updated to multi-stage deployment passenger bags for ‘98 models.
Able-Error1783@reddit
That's not correct. It was passive restraints by September 1, 1993, which forced many OEMs to install dual airbags for the 1994 MY. 1998MY was for cars and 1999MY for light trucks. 2500 and up weren't mandated.
Reagan admin phased in airbag requirements from 1984 or passive restraints, by percentage by September 1, 1987 and all cars by September 1, 1989. Automatic seatbelts or doormounted cheap alternative.
Originally MY 1994 under Reagan was the final mandate, then Bush pushed it back to MY 1998 and also added side door guard beams mandate.
GM was pretty slow with airbags, feeling burned by their 70s experiment. 1987 was the first driver SRS airbag via Buick. 1991 was the dual airbags via the Bonneville SSE(i) and first for Chevrolet, the Camaro in 1992-93. Some additional 2 door GM cars did get 1 airbag in late 1989, but only the driver IIRC.
Ford was first in 1986, then added dual airbags to some cars in 1988-90 and made them standard pretty early. First pickups with dual airbags in 1995*.
owensurfer@reddit
FYI 1998 was the required implementation of dual stage or “depowered” airbags based on passenger mass.
Able-Error1783@reddit
No it wasn't.
https://automotivehistory.org/september-1-1997-the-airbag-law-goes-into-effect/
owensurfer@reddit
The 9/1/97 date aligns with the ‘98 model year.
Drakeous98@reddit
Ahhh that is why, I thought that was the case but didn't want to sound ignorant, didn't realize they made the distinction from dual front to multi
Able-Error1783@reddit
Nah, the other dude was wrong. MY1998 was the mandate, on September 1, 1997 for cars and trucks 1 year later. September 1, 1993 made it that all cars were required to have automatic seatbelts or dual airbags.
TheCamoTrooper@reddit
Yea, my Miata has single airbags and many had dual airbags before 98 aswell, my 89 prelude however does not but it was an option in certain trims. So as said plenty had airbags before they were mandatory just have to know which ones
ApatheistHeretic@reddit
True. My '96 Ranger had driver and passenger side airbags.
Able-Error1783@reddit
Super rare! Most didn't, although it was the first pickup with a passenger airbag ever.
Traditional_Key_763@reddit
kind of a lurking problem but airbags do have expiration dates, a car from 1998 isn't going to have an airbag that functions like intended
TheCamoTrooper@reddit
Yes and no, originally manufacturers suggest to replace airbags every 15 years however they ended up doing research on it I'm the early 2000s and later determined that any airbag made after 1992 should never need replacing. Original airbags such as 1967-1991 do need to still adhere to the 15 year replacement rule for best safety
Visible-Book3838@reddit
I think you could get an airbag in a '73 Toronado even.
CadillacAllante@reddit
GM did trial airbags in the 70s, but I recall them being in sedans. Like some fleet market Impalas and retail Olds and Buicks I think. I think the passenger airbag was also designed to protect a middle front bench seat passenger too. 1974 Buick Airbags
owensurfer@reddit
Airbags were a regular option on several full size GM cars in ‘74-‘75. Anyone could order them but it would have been extremely rare to find a car so equipped in inventory. The option was expensive, about $800 on a $5000 car. Needless to say few were sold.
jondes99@reddit
I don’t know why you are being downvoted since this is correct.
TheCamoTrooper@reddit
Not sure about the tornado but airbags did start popping up in the 70s but didn't really start to become more common until late 80s
Constant_Sky9173@reddit
Na. That was a beanbag.
RogerMiller6@reddit
1982 Family Truckster had one 😀
KDM_Racing@reddit
You think you hate it now? Wait until you drive it.
musing_codger@reddit
Kind of a tricky subject in the US. If you are short and wear a seatbelt, those early airbag cars are more dangerous than ones without. The regulations required the airbags to be set to protect a 180 lb man not wearing a belt. So if you are short and sit nearer that airbag, you are likely to suffer harm from the airbag rather than be helped by it.
I would say that the two must haves are head restraints and shoulder belts. But cars have been getting incrementally safer every year. A modern econbox is safer in most ways that a stout boxy Volvo from 1980.
rigby1945@reddit
Thusbis why modern cars have so many sensors. How fast the car is moving, how much you weigh, how far back are you seated, are you wearing a seat belt all and more factor into the air bag deployment strategy
Bryanmsi89@reddit
Yeah, but older airbag igniters are technically only good for 10 years. Current airbags last 'life of vehicle.'
Major improvements started with airbags being required in 1994, and more impact resistant combined with anti-lock brakes and published crash tests. Arguably crumple zones and side impact bars would be more meaningful. By 2010 cars were in a whole new universe of safety.
But a general answer is that in the late 1990s cars became much much safer. Anything before 1980 is suspect for sure. Unfortunately, you are probably talking pre-1970s for a truly 'classic old car' look.
Overall-Tailor8949@reddit
As long as it isn't a Takata. . .
Protholl@reddit
Came here to say this.
Bryanmsi89@reddit
Haha yeah. Have some face-shrapnel!
alfredrowdy@reddit
Side impact test didn’t get introduced until 2003, and vast majority of cars made before that had no structural reinforcement in the doors.
Of course if takes time for manufacturers to adapt new models to standards and tests, so probably around 2010 is when can trust a vehicle to have reinforced doors without having to do any research about the model.
hick_allegedlys@reddit
95 camaro had airbags on both sides
Lanky-Strike3343@reddit
That's as old as I am lol
oceanwayjax@reddit
I didn't need to hear that
icedoutclockwatch@reddit
26 years ago just to clarify for anyone else lol
Adept_Carpet@reddit
I hate you
Lanky-Strike3343@reddit
That's why I say it
Educational-Job9105@reddit
Fuck you and my knees.
jftitan@reddit
I miss my starter cars in the 1990s.
First car Toyota Celica GT 82' and later in high school Ford Escort GT '87.
I should have gotten the Ford Falcon '64.
Drd2@reddit
Bummer, you probably never got to ride in the back of a pickup.
Lanky-Strike3343@reddit
Dad had a topper if. We say a cop we layed down
RicooC@reddit
FYI, air bags were in Chrysler vehicles in the 80s
RicooC@reddit
Air bags only matter if you use seat belts with them. Today's seat belts are excellent, and if used all the time then the air bags are less important. Air bags could save you in a catastrophic collision but in minor collisions they may cause more minor injuries than is necessary. I've been an auto damage appraiser for 40 years, and repeatedly, I see people with burns, broken noses, and shoulder issues in relatively minor impacts. If I had a choice I would shut off my air bags.
ComprehensiveEmu5438@reddit
Just to be clear for everyone, lots of cars before this had airbags.
ContributionDapper84@reddit
U.S. regulations are likely not useful here.
yogfthagen@reddit
It's not a safe/unsafe question. It's a matter of degrees.
You said you're from another country, so your timeline will be different.
In the US , a guy named Ralph Nader wrote a book called "Unsafe at Any Speed." It was about thd Chevy Corvair, a car with fundamental handling flaws that could have been easily and cheaply fixed. As in, take a corner too sharp, and the rear suspension would fold under the car, flopping it. It could be fixed by adding a $5 strap. Those straps were for sale from aftermarket suppliers within months. So, Chevy knew, but did nothing. That car (and all cars at the time) also had metal dashboards that were much stronger than your skull, solid steering columns that would impale the driver, seats that would unfasten from their mountings, and all sorts of shiny metal knobs that would also impale you. Fuel tanks were not capable of surviving a crash, so fuel spills and fires were common. And, the structure was as strong as a wet noodle, so you could end up with the engine in your lap. Seatbelts? The thought was that it was BETTER for you to be thrown out of the car (see fire above.)
That's the point where cars started to become more safe. Seatbelts were introduced in the late 1960s. Plastic interiors became a thing. Steering wheel columns would collapse.
And, although it was done for insurance and environmental reasons (not for safety), emissions controls on car engines killed horsepower. In 1967/8, you could get a 454 cubic inch engine that produced a stated 450 hp (actually closer to 600 hp). After 1973 or so, same sized engine barely made 200 hp. All this went into the 1970s. It's a lot harder to lose control of your car with 200 hp than with 500 hp.
Add the 55 mph speed limit, and car deaths dropped even further.
Disk brakes became more common, and radial tires were safer than bias ply tires. To paraphrase Mr. Miyagi, "Best way to survive crash, no be in one." People started actually buying cars for their safety. Another car brand, the Ford Pinto, was cancelled because of safety issues (fuel tank fires in rear end crashes). The car manufacturers finally got it: ignore safety, and your sales collapse.
By the 1980s, Volvo started advertising safety. Crash testing got introduced. Crumple zones became a thing.
Safety is really freaking hard. It's taken a couple generations to get the engineering right, and the technology is also really complicated /expensive. In the 1980s, cars had automatic seatbelts because people didn't buckle up. Turns out, they're not going to help if your door pops open, so seatbelts are all manual, now.
Cars have been getting safer and safer (airbags, antilock brakes, traction control, tire pressure sensors, anti-collision sensors), but all of that costs money. Also, the reinforcement needed to keep the passengers safe means that cars have a fundamental minimum size/weight, so "small cars" are getting bigger and bigger.
At the same time, all that technology means a performance car from a given time has less actual performance than a basic car from 15-20 years later. That's measured in hard numbers, acceleration, braking, cornering, and lap times.
You live in the golden age of car performance right now.
Able-Error1783@reddit
Good comment, with effort and not just lazy answers like many in here.
Old_Acanthaceae5198@reddit
Dapper-Palpitation90@reddit
The only reason backup cameras are needed, is because the idiot designers took away rear window visibility.
Able-Error1783@reddit
It was actually Infiniti advertising their new, exclusive backup camera system (RearView Monitor '01) in 2002 for the Q45 (and upcoming FX45), which triggered the sensitivities of a doctor who backed over and killed his toddler in a Gen 1 BMW X5. BMW's optional ultrasonic PDC, may not have been included on the doctor's X5.
Like a guilt ridden Towson lawyer who's young daughter died in front of a Caravan's violent Gen 1 passenger airbag in 1995, he fought over it for years in court against the parent company too and pushed for legislation. Once kids' mortality gets involved, it pulls on heart strings.
I believe the explicit warning labels for passenger airbags and depowered systems in 1996-1997 came from the DMV (Towson) lawyer, while the mandate of backup cameras took 15 years from that child's death in 2002 to 2017ish for the 2018 mandate.
Old_Acanthaceae5198@reddit
Blah blah blah blah I'm a boomer.
Dapper-Palpitation90@reddit
Why are you calling yourself names?
Able-Error1783@reddit
Hahaha
Hirsuitism@reddit
https://youtu.be/xidhx_f-ouU?si=1ldlAbfq0A0runYr
1995 vs 2015 Corolla crash test. 1995 got 0 stars. If you drive anything older than 15-20 years, you're going to give up substantial safety. Modern cars break up on impact, which is the point, because they absorb the force. In older cars you are the crumple zone.
Phoebebee323@reddit
And when a modern car crumples you can't just bend it back out and send it on its way because it now has a weak point and won't absorb as much energy in the next impact
Emotional-Water-5457@reddit
What's your point?
myburneraccount151@reddit
This is exactly right. I'm in insurance, and this is what I point out to people complaining about rising rates. 20 years ago, a fender bender was just that. Now, there's barely any such thing. Injury crashes are less frequent, but we have to replace cars a lot more frequently now. Our costs are wildly higher than they were before cars became truly safe
Hirsuitism@reddit
I'd rather pay for a 20k car than a 200k hospital bill
cerialthriller@reddit
There’s no $200k hospital bill if you’re dead
JiuJitsuBoxer@reddit
This comments smells american
myburneraccount151@reddit
Absolutely. The problem with insurance nowadays is that we used to pay out a 200k hospital bill very seldom. Like 5% of accidents. That number has gone down to 1%. So that's good. But we used to pay 20k for a totaled car like 5% of the time. That number has gone up to like 20%. Everyone is safe, which is good. But cars are now $40,000 pieces of paper designed to crumple, when they used to be $25,000 tanks.
Also, the percentages I listed are completely made up numbers. I do not have specific data in front of me. Just used those as examples
EcstaticStock4281@reddit
I get the idea, but those numbers don't add up at all haha.
By those numbers, insurance would still be saving a significant amount of money.
I get that they were probably just thrown out there. Makes me curious what the actualy number are.
EspHack@reddit
there are no fenders to bend anymore, its thin plastic all the way down, and get ready for cardboard cars in 2030
ADDandME@reddit
I want a car made completely out of airbags that can see the hit coming and explode when necessary
Shitboxfan69@reddit
This, but I want Takata to make them.
If your car starts barreling towards me, you get claymore'd.
jondes99@reddit
Why not just fill with helium and float over the wreck?
slavabien@reddit
Right but on the liability side lower costs in terms of hospitalization and/or death, no? Disposable cars=healthier people.
Hirsuitism@reddit
Well actually more people survival previously fatal accidents, so the healthcare savings might not be as pronounced. Previously they would die so the expenditure would be minimal.
myburneraccount151@reddit
Yes. Lower costs for bodily injury. Higher costs for property damage. The vast majority of accidents are minor. Call it 85%. 20 years ago, that minor accident caused minor damage to cars, and minor damage to people. So 5k in payout on the car damage, 5k in payout on the injuries. Now, that same accident causes 0 payout in injuries. Hooray. But it causes 30k in property damage because the car crumpled to prevent injuries. Safety is important, and imo, I'd rather pay extra to not die. But it's not good from a money standpoint.
Corran105@reddit
In Florida even a minor crash often has injury claims presented. Little vehicle damage but they'll attorney up and go to the chiro 30 times because they've been led to believe by aggressive advertising that there's real money in it.
TristanMays@reddit
Older people complaining about plastic cars are always blown away when I explain this to them. How do people not expect the cabin to be THE weak point with all the "indestructible" steel packed around a bubble?
47-30-23N_122-0-22W@reddit
I totalled the frame on a 99 corolla going 15mph on a 25mph curve in a light sprinkle. A newer car likely would have absorbed the blow
jondes99@reddit
That’s assuming all cars were built to the same standard as a Corolla in 1995. There were cars with crumple zones, side impact beams and airbags 20 years before.
topherhead@reddit
Just as importantly as the crumple zones is cabin integrity.
All the energy absorption in the world doesn't save you from a truck's crash bar bashing through the firewall and taking out your knees or worse.
If you watch closely you see all the carnage up front but once it makes it to the back of the fender the car suddenly stops and stops breaking up.
That's the main reason A-Pillars are so huge now.
wheelsnbars@reddit
Cars got stronger in the 90s based on formal testing. Before that you basically need a Volvo or Mercedes.
The old aesthetic with steep windshields and thin pillars is just isn’t stronger.
Wuddntme@reddit
It depends on the type of car. Mercedes and Volvo were very safe way before most others. Mercedes was doing things that governments don’t even test for 40 years ago. I’d say most cars caught up to where Mercedes was in the 80’s sometime around 2005.
NutzNBoltz369@reddit
I would say any 1970's vintage luxo land barge is relatively safe. What makes some older cars "unsafe" is the fact that that new cars are so massive and heavy. The dominance of massive bro dozer trucks and SUVs that are basically a living room on wheels, not to mention EVs that are significantly heavier. Your typical 1980's-2000's car stands no chance against them.
Metsican@reddit
2010s
MarkVII88@reddit
I drove a 1988 Lincoln back in college. The vehicle had ABS, but not airbags.
Far-Masterpiece4701@reddit
really safe cars from the 90s are still safe-ish
in the sense they are not death traps
a 90s s-class mercedes is still safe enough ish
robinson217@reddit
I mean, there are cars from 100 years ago with wood frames. Safety was incremental. Safety glass was huge because when you inevitably flew through the windshield with no seat belts, you didn't get your throat slit. Collapsing steering columns made fewer drivers into kebabs. Disk brakes halved stopping distance, and ABS halved it again. Seatbelts and airbags combined probably account for the most lives saved, but crumple zones are probably a close second. Long story short, there's no exact year cars became safe. It was a sliding scale. I would say the last 10 years are all pretty good, depending on what make and model you pick. But you could possibly find some much older luxury models that had all the safety bells and whistles for the last several decades. I'd rather crash in a 1994 Lexus LS400 than a 2024 Mitsubishi Mirage.
LeadfootYT@reddit
Depends on the car. ‘80s Saabs and Volvos are quite safe, even the pre-airbag cars, due to how they were designed structurally. The C900 in particular was designed so that the engine and front subframe break away underneath the car in the event of a head-on crash, and there are a lot of people in New England who can speak quite literally to this design feature saving their lives in 900s over the years.
bisubhairybtm1@reddit
Pre 1970 if you are driving and crash the car head on they found you impaled on the steering column.
Lateapexer@reddit
Disc brakes and crumple zones make them safe. Geometry helps a lot too. I’d say 90’s and above. Not much vintage but more safety
PerformanceDouble924@reddit
Your options are buy something post. 2010ish when offset crumple zones and side curtain airbags became standard, or to get something classic and install a roll cage positioned high enough and far back enough that your skull won't bounce off it in an accident.
Savings-Wallaby7392@reddit
My first car a 1963 Dart convertible had no seat belts from factory or head rests or padded dash. Used to freak people out when they got in front passenger seat with top down on highway
Savings-Wallaby7392@reddit
Honestly early 70s cars. My friend had a Buick GS Stage 1 and had PS, PB, PW, Disc brakes, radial tires and AC.
4x4Welder@reddit
1965 is when split brake systems became mandatory, late 60s for seatbelts and reflectors, early 70s front drum brakes started going away and side marker lights were mandatory, 80s had more crash protections like crumple zones, softer interiors, and collapsible steering columns, 90s had ABS and airbags but cars were getting pretty round by then
AKADriver@reddit
The concept of a crumple zone existed as far back as the 1960s. 1980s might be closer to a successful implementation of it, but it's funny when I see people reference that idea as if cars from like the 2000s weren't designed that way.
A concrete example: if you've ever seen a squarebody Chevy (1973-1987) with a bent hood, it's not from a crash, it's because the heavy steel hood was designed with an intentional weak spot just ahead of the hinges so that the hood would crumple instead of guillotining the driver. If the hinges get sticky you can bend the hood with one hand if you pull it down the wrong way.
jckipps@reddit
Yep. We all saw that round-eye come through the Barrett-Jackson auction with a bent hood. That had to be a very embarrassing moment to whoever attempted to close that hood just before the sale!
Personally, I'll stick with the 85-87 front clip and grille design. No risk of folded hoods on those, and they look good to me.
point50tracer@reddit
I hated how carefully I had to close the hood on my 75 K20. I was definitely happy for that feature after a Nissan Altima going 105mph hit me head on. The hood folded exactly where it was supposed to. My current 1972 C10 has a much more rigid hood.
Also. A tip for anyone with a classic car or truck. Push back on the hood while closing. It'll help the hinges close properly and limit the risk of bending the hood. Never pull straight down.
Overall-Tailor8949@reddit
Learned that the hard way with my '78 Monte Carlo. Fortunately it wasn't too bad and we were able to (mostly) straighten it out!
SquirrelNormal@reddit
Car vs pickup makes a difference too. I've had a couple 1970s trucks with only a driver's lap belt as factory equipment, well after passenger cars needed them in all positions.
SAEftw@reddit
Dual reservoir master cylinders weren’t required until 1967.
Front marker lamps 1968, rear markers 1969.
Front disc brakes available on Citroen in 1955. Gradual implementation over next 30 years. Never federally mandated.
Collapsible steering columns required in 1967.
Front impact bumpers 1973. Rear 1974.
Bias ply tires limited sustained highway speeds to below 75mph. Blowouts, hydroplaning, and “death wobble” were common before radial tires. Limiting highway speeds to 55mph delayed safety advances in the US for a decade.
People routinely died from 30mph collisions before the 1930s. Some of the many novel ideas embodied in the ‘48 Tucker were safety measures.
Volvo pioneered many early safety features in the 50’s and 60’s.
On roads filled with full size high profile pickups and SUV’s, cars are only “safe” if they have side curtain airbags.
Pick your poison.
jckipps@reddit
There was a significant shift in the 1980's. Crash tests, air bags, crumple zones, and head rests all became ubiquitous during that time period. By the 1990's, cars were practically as safe as they are today, in my book.
Personally, I'm most interested in classic pickups. Those never have been as safe as cars when it comes to crumple zones, but their higher ride height and heavier weight gives them an advantage. I would have no problem daily-driving a pickup from the 1960's at least.
point50tracer@reddit
Late 60s seems to be when they started considering safety a little more. 1967. Passenger cars were required to have shoulder belts. 1968 we got side marker lights and collapsible steering columns. In the early 70s they started making weak spots in the hood so they'd fold in a wreck instead of going through the windshield. This one in particular saved my life.
I had a 1975 Chevy K20. When I got in a head on wreck, the hood folded exactly where it was supposed to. I can't see the hood on my current 1972 C10 or my 68 Mustang folding in the same way. I'm not sure when drop out engine mounts became a thing, but if my K20 had them, I probably wouldn't have broken both legs when the engine decided to enter what used to be the cab.
Another thing to look at (especially in trucks) is fuel tank location. My C10 has the tank inside the cab. This is an awful location for it. But still preferred over the saddle tanks that my K20 had. The tank should ideally be located between the frame rails and not at the very rear like the infamous Ford pinto. Inside the cab provides good protection for the tank in most wrecks, but if it does rupture, you're in trouble. Saddle tanks are susceptible to damage in side impacts. Between the frame rails is by far the best location.
Here's the deal though. You can stress out over safety all you want, but you will always be better off buying a modern vehicle if that's your concern. You buy a classic vehicle because you love classic vehicles. You can do a few things to improve the safety, but for the most part, you need to accept that these cars aren't going to be as safe. I've been in a bad wreck in a classic vehicle and as soon as I was out of the hospital, I was looking for another classic. I bought my Mustang while I was still in a wheelchair with two broken legs, a broken pelvis, and a broken back.
nortonj3@reddit
in 1968, the US mandated collapsible steering wheels.
much better than a steering shaft into your head, neck, or upper sternum. killing you instantly.
in the US in 1967, they mandated dual circuit brakes. meaning if a brake line blew, two brakes would go out, but the other two would function (you'd know there was a problem, but you could stop)
without dual circuit brakes, a brake line blew, you had absolutely no brakes. likely killing you, others, massive property damage, etc.
the 3 point seat belts were mandatory starting in 1968.
based on that info, I'd get anything US spec (if you live outside the US) 1968 or newer.
WFPBvegan2@reddit
My 90 Miata has a driver’s side air bag. Not saying that a Miata is the safest choice but….
473713@reddit
Lap seatbelts became standard in the early 60s, but the shoulder part wasn't standard until years later and went through a few clumsy iterations first.
Silver-Bluebird4192@reddit
My 97 civic is probably pretty safe. I know it has crumple zones
Shadrixian@reddit
Power steering was primitive around 1980s, but started to get fleshed out by the mid 90s. Air bags started being used here and there starting in 1987ish but was mostly optional to the consumer.
pickles55@reddit
If you care about reliability at all you should not be looking at anything more than like 20 years old at the maximum
JCDU@reddit
Honestly most of it is just "newer designs are better" on a scale.
However, ignoring the stuff you can't do much about (airbags, crumple zones, etc.) it's possible to make older cars safer to drive just with improvements like better brakes, power steering, modern tyres, improved suspension, seats & belts, better lights, better HVAC (being able to see out in winter), stuff like that.
Sometimes some of that got improved over the model years / lineup so a later / higher spec car might come with disc brakes where an older/base model might have crappy drum brakes.
Depending on the car you could even weld in a roll cage especially if it's one you might take to track days etc.
Also just servicing the damn thing and replacing all the rusty old crap with new parts - so many old cars are unreliable / unsafe because owners won't replace a 40+ year old part until it breaks even if it's way beyond its useful life. Just putting fresh brakes, suspension, bushings & ball joints on a car can transform it from terrifying to fantastic.
Ultimately if you have a crash you're not going to do very well compared to a modern car, but you can at least reduce your chances by being able to see, stop & steer better.
Good_Ad_1386@reddit
1980s Saabs and Volvos. Obviously the Saab if you want to arrive in style, and the Volvo if you move a lot of domestic appliances.
wheelsmatsjall@reddit
It depends on how you drive. I've driven my 1925 Franklin in Los Angeles traffic. I give plenty of room and I I have locked the wheels up to try and avoid an accident and it worked. It's really about your driving.
carguy82j@reddit
If you are into German, they had airbags back in 1993 and I think even older. Also had Good ABS too. When I drive my Unsafe Buick Grand National I just keep a really good distance and keep super alert
W126_300SE@reddit
I'd also recommend German cars. The W126 S-class had a steering wheel airbag from 1981 on as an option, plus seatbelt pretensioners. They also had excellent ABS.
RogerMiller6@reddit
And very effective crumple zones. The w126 really was a masterpiece of engineering.
W126_300SE@reddit
Seen this advertisement?
megasmash@reddit
Counterpoint: I'm not sure what I'd rather be facing if I were involved in a frontal collision; a vintage Momo steering wheel, or an early "Gen 1" airbag.
Weak_Credit_3607@reddit
I'm going to say 2006-2008 model year production vehicles was the safest year for car manufacturers. My reasoning is, a Google search for fatalities automotive related. From the early 1900's until now. Lowest point was 2009. It's been going up from there
Flat-Jacket-9606@reddit
You can restomod vehicles and bring their safety standards up to par. I have a 73 firebird that I’ve been slowly restoring and I’ve added a lot of modern safety features. I get it will still hit like a Mac truck and will be shit on the body to get in a wreck, but at least I now have airbags, a seat back that supports the head. Better seatbelts, better suspension. Upgraded the breaks to full disk, etc.
Puffman92@reddit
I do collision work and I rarely fix a car that a person's been seriously injured in.
L0LTHED0G@reddit
It's a matter of perspective.
Headlamps are pretty required for decent safety, that's what - 30s?
Seatbelts and turn signals are good for safety, that's 1968.
Crumple zones? I think that's around 80s.
Better steel? Well that's ever-evolving.
I'd personally say anything from the 80s and up, but it's also about what aesthetic you're looking for. You just won't find a 50s or 60s aesthetic in the big box flare era of the 80s and newer.
Best you can do, IMO, is get a car you're interested in and add-in safety components. You can do a roll cage and swing-out bars to give you better resistance to impacts, harness that keeps you in place so you don't hit your head. But you're still susceptible to other crashes.
It's all a personal decision: what look do you want, and what's it take to get it to the level of safe you desire? For me, I wanted a 60s Mustang, with some decent power, and a bit safe. So I have a 4-point cage, 6-point harness, and if something goes to shit outside of that... oh well.
SpaceAgePotatoCakes@reddit
It'll also depend a bit on the brand and model. An 80s Saab or Volvo is safer than an 80s Honda or BMW. I think there was likely a big uptick all around when proper crash testing came into play in the late 90s, so some early 2000s models are probably the best balance of decent safety while still technically being considered an old car now.
L0LTHED0G@reddit
I definitely was thinking of an 80s Volvo when writing this.
Maybe with a 302.
Wait, sorry, that's a particular 740 wagon my buddy owned.
rklug1521@reddit
If you research what years the IIHS (for the US) added new crash test requirements, usually cars refreshed or redesigned after those years perform better in those tests. At a minimum, they're tested to the newer standards.
For example, the IIHS started driver side small overlap front crash testing in 2012. The 2012 Acura RDX just came out and wasn't tested for this. In 2016, the RDX underwent a minor refresh. One of the changes was additional chassis reinforcements to get good results for this crash test.
MechNumba4@reddit
Technically it’s when they started making seatbelts mandatory but if you read the statistics thoroughly, pedestrian safety went way down… sooo…
Kahless_2K@reddit
ABS, Crumple Zones, and Airbags are the three features you are looking for.
Potential-Ant-6320@reddit
I would say the Volvo in 1972. You have the first three point harness and collapsing steering column. It was so revolutionary Volvo made the intellectual property free for anyone to use and many governments required all new cars incorporate the safety features. This was also the Ralph Nader era so this was the dawn of caring about auto safety.
IslandCacti@reddit
Volvo had 3pt harnesses and collapsing steering column earlier than that too. My ‘68 144 has both. Not sure if the amazon had the collapsible steering column.
happyexit7@reddit
That’s the fun part of driving an old car, the rawness unsafe aspect of pure driving.
megasmash@reddit
Psst... hey kid, ever try motorcycles? C'mon... they're really fun...
happyexit7@reddit
😂
lord_bubblewater@reddit
Depends a lot on the brand, I’d trust a 80’s Volvo Over a 90’s Chevy but then a gain a 90’s Chevy over a 00’s Hyundai either way old cars are unsafe.
megasmash@reddit
If you want the safest vintage car, get into Volvos and Saabs. While they are not safe when compared to modern cars, they were always ahead of their time in terms of safety features.
Emotional-Royal8944@reddit
I read somewhere that Henry Ford started putting tempered glass in his cars in the 30’s or 40’s because a friend was killed in an accident because of the regular glass that was used at the time. Maybe one of the earliest attempts at making cars not necessarily safe but safer
RogerMiller6@reddit
Yes, safety glass was honestly probably the biggest safety advancements ever in automotive engineering. Accidents (even minor ones) in the 20s were horrific. If any glass broke, someone was getting their throat slashed by a giant shard of plate glass.
sockpoppit@reddit
I mark it from 1968, the year that seat belts were mandatory for new cars. Before that there wasn't that much concern for safety, in my memory. I was there.
RogerMiller6@reddit
Hey now! Ford came out with the ‘Impact Absorbing Steering Wheel’ in the early 50s… They even had a promo film where a football player in full gear ran down the field and head butted one to show that it bent. Slightly. I once had my ‘impact’ absorbed by one and it did indeed bend. Can’t really recommend the experience, though.
Phase4Motion@reddit
Yes I have a 68 fury good to go 😎
djhh33@reddit
Along with collapsible steering columns the same year
G_W_Atlas@reddit
If safety is your main concern, vintage cars likely aren't for you.
That-Resort2078@reddit
Not until air bags
Tyrome_Jackson2@reddit
The bigger more gooder
sbgoofus@reddit
my 60's studebaker has only lap belts (and those were put in by the last owner), a steel, non collapsible steering column, steel non-padded dash and non power steering and brakes - - it's a death machine.. but I love it
Nodeal_reddit@reddit
My 97 miata has dual airbags. You can check me, but I think previous years just had driver-side airbags.
angrycanadianguy@reddit
I usually say mid 2000’s, give or take. The 80’s-90’s brought us crumple zones as pretty much standard, and at the end of the 90’s, airbags.
Anything earlier than the 80’s is basically a death trap, to me.
ckFuNice@reddit
1967 is oldest Safe year.
In 1968, cars had to have lapbelts in the front.
1967, drive off the bridge evading enemies on an important mission , deep breath, hit the water-climb out, sneak-swim away.
1968-no way. Underwater buckled in, trapped!
Also, we had a phone in our shoe , for secret calls.
Agent 86
\j
fearthestorm@reddit
Safe as in major crashes? Early 00s, maybe late 90s volvos
Safe as in won't kill you in a minor crash, 90s up
Anything earlier is kindof hoping you don't hit anything more substantial than a deer.
rothordwarf@reddit
You want a safe old classic.
70 Cadillac Eldorado 500.
KRed75@reddit
1968
Collapsible steering wheels were required by law. Before that, you were speared to death by the shaft in a minor fender bender.
Seatbelts were required by law.
cr-islander@reddit
It's been a progression over the years here is an interesting article on that progression...
https://www.theaa.com/breakdown-cover/advice/evolution-of-car-safety-features
allnamestaken4892@reddit
Get a roll cage and rely on the other car you hit for crumple zones.
ExaminationDry8341@reddit
I like Fords.
My 64 f350. Has no safety features at all. No seat belts and all steel inside.
My 78 f150 had seat belts, and the steering wheel was designed in a way that felt like it wouldn't impale the driver in a 5 mph crash.
My 85 f100 was similar to the 78. But the dash had a tiny bit of padding.
M 96 ranger had lots of padding on the wheel and dash and seat belts that locked up way too easily, such as when leaning forward to try to check both ways at an intersection.
My 99 e150 has drivers and front passenger airbags. The dash and wheel are padded. It had ABS. The first two rows have good seat belts. The third row had not good seat belts.
My 2010 f150 is miles ahead when it comes to safety. It has front air bags, side airbags, and both front seats have two airbags built in. The seat belts work well, even the center one in back. It is one of the few vehicles I owned that felt safe. I was in an accident with it a few weeks ago. The other vehicles' front wheelwell ended up where the drivers' legs should be. Other than some cuts from flying glass and rash from the seatbelts, no one was injured.
Hot_Block_9675@reddit
My 1987 1 ton Chevy Silverado Dually Crew Cab is about as safe as you can ask for. For a "vintage vehicle". It weighs almost 3.5 tons with the 10' flatbed and Tommy Lift.
It only has seat belts. No headrests, no airbags, no anti-lock brakes, a "kinda soft" dashboard. It does have safety glass lol!
If I'm unlucky enough to get t-boned and the offending vehicle slides under the bed (highly likely) the plastic gas tanks located on the outside of the frame are likely to explode in a huge ball of fire. If they hit me in the doors there is no reinforcement - just sheet metal. Luckily the frame is likely to prevent intrusion, but it's still gonna' cause a lot of hell inside the cab.
If I get rear ended by a similar weight vehicle I'll likely break my neck or get severe whiplash. If it's smaller it will just be a minor annoyance on my end, but the other vehicle will have my trailer hitch shoved into it's cabin since it's anchored to a seriously thick steel ladder frame.
If I hit a concrete wall I'm likely to require a full set of false teeth and perhaps a frontal lobotomy since I'll eat the steering wheel.
I wouldn't trade it for the world. Why? Everyone gives me a wide berth and thumbs up. :-)
TakeshiEbisawa@reddit
My 91 Stealth has a driver's side air bag. I hardly consider it safe though
Berek2501@reddit
It's simply understood at this point that if you get a vintage car, "safety" has to be one of your last priorities.
Lucky_Tough8823@reddit
It's more manufacturers by manufacturer like tucker focused on safety in the 40's. Volvo developed the modern 3 point belt and made safety improvements to their cars from the 50's. Saab worked very hard on safety and made some of the strongest passenger compartments of all time even when they had a joint engineering program with alfa Romeo the saab was heavier and stronger. Mercedes w124 chassis could have a 80km/h offset impact into a concrete barrier and still open its doors. I'd be comfortable stating mid 80's European cars were reasonably safe however Japanese or American or Australian cars still didn't have the safety features.
Fancy_Chip_5620@reddit
Mid 90s
Overall-Tailor8949@reddit
As others have pointed out, major safety features started to become standard in the 1970's (in the USA at least) so after say 1975 they were all becoming safer. One thing I will say from personal experience, if you have a vintage/classic vehicle in decent condition, that you drive regularly, YOU will become a safer driver. You will probably drive a little bit more conservatively and will be quicker to react when that OTHER idiot tries to merge into the side of your car or blows through a stop sign.
djluminol@reddit
I would say 80's at a minimum, seatbelts, but 90's would be best due to airbags and crumple zones.
walkawaysux@reddit
In 1974 the government mandated 5 mph impact bumpers front and rear on all new cars . I still have my Oldsmobile from that time I have been hit twice from behind while waiting for the red light to change each time the other car was badly damaged and mine wasn’t even scratched. The car is built like a tank ! I feel very safe
Hirsuitism@reddit
Crumple zones have left the chat
walkawaysux@reddit
I know fuel economy became more important than safety.
sllewgh@reddit
I have to assume you don't know what crumple zones are- you should read up. The car is not supposed to emerge from the accident unscathed- YOU are. The car crumples to absorb the energy so your body doesn't. You think you're safer in your tank, but the exact opposite is true.
walkawaysux@reddit
Meh I’ll stick with the 4000 pounds of steel with big block power . It’s a lot of fun
sllewgh@reddit
Do what you like, just stop pretending its safer. It isn't.
walkawaysux@reddit
I’ll keep what you consider unsafe over a tiny little cracker box anytime. Bye bye now
sllewgh@reddit
It's not what I consider unsafe, it's what every expert on automotive safety without exception thinks.
walkawaysux@reddit
Once again bye bye
sllewgh@reddit
You know you can just stop replying instead of saying goodbye, right?
walkawaysux@reddit
Muted
Vova_xX@reddit
taking a hit at a stoplight isn't a serious accident.
if you're in a high speed crash and your car looks fine, then you'd already be dead. modern cars crumple and destroy themselves to be able to keep you alive.
Hirsuitism@reddit
What are you talking about lol. Modern cars are by far safer than anything produced before 2000. They crumple on design, you want the car to absorb the force. I want to walk away from the accident with my body intact. The car just needs to take the hit, I don't need it to drive afterwards.
walkawaysux@reddit
Everyone has an opinion me I’ll keep my tank !
Hirsuitism@reddit
We have facts. You have an opinion.
https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/documents/newer-cars-safer-cars_fact-sheet_010320-tag.pdf#:~:text=ABOUT%20NEW%20CARS%20NHTSA%20data%20shows%20that,dropped%20to%2010.05%20per%20100%2C000%20registered%20vehicles.
Wetschera@reddit
When I was in high school, my 1980 Oldsmobile 98 took out a concrete security bollard, like around a gas pump. It wasn’t even scratched. The bollard was at 45 degree angle. I didn’t even feel it.
That seems like a problem.
walkawaysux@reddit
It’s a problem for whoever you hit . That’s been my experience
Wetschera@reddit
If you’re hit by something bigger then it’s different matter. Isn’t it?
Everyone should survive.
And then there are deer.
Utwig_Chenjesu@reddit
I'd say it was the late 80's, thats when all disk, anti locking brakes became a thing. For getting parts though, aim for 2000 and newer. You can still get parts for older cars, but its getting harder.
Blacksburg@reddit
I won't accept anything without ABS and airbags.
PckMan@reddit
Depends on the region but generally speaking we're talking 90s and after, so not really vintage. Anything before that is pretty much a steel box with few or no crumple zone, rudimentary seatbelts/seats, airbags that probably don't work any more or just no airbags at all.
Basically don't crash. Lots of people like to say old cars were made of "real steel" and could get into pretty gnarly crashes and come away from them with little damage and that's true, for the cars, but they don't consider what happened to the occupants. Generally speaking if you're driving a vintage car, try not to crash. Yeah sounds dumb I know, don't push your luck and one would assume most people don't daily drive a vintage car. It's not any more dangerous than a motorcycle at least.
KlammFromTheCastle@reddit
1990 for Saab.
TweeksTurbos@reddit
My state lets you reg 25 year old cars as antiques. So that is basically 2000 in a few months.
Hersbird@reddit
I'd say the gains up to dual front airbags and ABS brakes were inching along. Bandaid here and there, none making huge gains. So a car with functional dual front airbags and ABS would be the minimum level for a "safe" car. I personally don't care that much about that, every car is safer than a motorcycle and you see lots of people on those. If I had an old car I'd likely at least put lap belts if they weren't installed, a dual reservoir master cylinder, and front disc brakes but I wouldn't be driving a classic car like that every day to and from work in all seasons anyway. Buy a beater with a heater, and plenty can be had with dual front airbags and ABS.
sithelephant@reddit
There is also the fun question of how unsafe has your car become in the 20, 40 or 60 years since it was made.
Both through fatigue/wear and tear, and structural misrepair.
TheDu42@reddit
Define what safe means to you.
Are we talking safe, as in easier to control and avoid accidents?
Are we talking safe as in reduced injuries and fatalities when a crash happens?
First one can be literally any car, if you wish to modify it. Second one is never going to be a classic car.
Visible-Book3838@reddit
The Reddit "Old cars are all death traps" safety police are going to swarm all over this one, I'm surprised no one has yet linked that video of tagging a rusty '59 Chevy sedan right in the corner where the X frame folds up and using it as proof that all old cars will instantly kill you if you hit anything over 3 mph.
"Safety" is relative, and there's been a constant progression of it over the years, there's no real turning point where suddenly they're safe. Personally, I don't feel "safe" in a new, modern car on the freeway while everyone is doing 15 over all around me.
What car do you wish you had? You can add 3 point seat belts, a collapsible steering column, dual chamber master cylinder, even a full drag racing style roll cage to pretty much any old car if that's what you feel you need.
I'm personally not into motorcycles at all. But I know some people who are, and they're out there having the time of their life with vastly less safety around them than any of the old cars I drive. Set your car up right, take the back roads, be alert. You'll love it, and you'll be fine.
411592@reddit
We die like men
clutch727@reddit
Collapsible steering columns and safety glass were big improvements. Before that you could take a large 17" steering wheel on a stick to the chest while your passenger got their face shredded by the windshield.
Fine-Teach-2590@reddit
My 53’ is safe, mostly because it won’t really go above 40mph tho lmao
theshagmister@reddit
It all started when Volvo invented the seat belt
plainsfiddle@reddit
it depends, I daily a couple of 80s mercedes. I probably wouldn't drive around all the time in a 90s Nissan. depends a bit on the brand.
imothers@reddit
It's hilarious to me that OP is from "my country" but doesn't say which country this is. And almost all of the replies are correct for the US (and Canada) but probably not so much for other markets where regulations evolved differently.
Have a look at the Citroen DS - when it came out in 1955 it had a variety of active and passive safety features built in.
Classic Mercedes and Volvos had better safety than their contemporary competitors back in the day.
Smooth-Apartment-856@reddit
As you have probably guessed, it’s been a little, slow transition. Ford offered a safety package called Lifeguard back in the 1950’s that was designed to make cars safer. It was not as popular with buyers as one would have thought. It’s been slow, continuous improvements ever since. The further back you go, the less safe cars get.
I’d still feel safer in a 1957 Bel Air than I would on a motorcycle.
albertpenello@reddit
What do you define as safe? Airbags? Collapsible steering columns? Disc brakes? Shoulder belts? All of the above?
Each of those made the car incrementally safer. TBH, if you've ever daily-driven an old car with Drum brakes the upgrade to Disc brakes makes a huge safety improvement, especially today.
A "safe" car as you know it today you're probably looking at mid-90's.
But if you were considering a vintage car for a daily driver I would say that Disc Brakes and Shoulder Belts would get you close. I'm not sure I'd trust 30-year old Airbags anyway.
uhbkodazbg@reddit
Have you ever read “Unsafe At Any Speed”?
There are a lot of data points you can use in the evolution of current safety standards. The late 70s with the introduction of crash test ratings and the widespread adoption of crumple zones is a big point and one I’d use before deciding to buy a vehicle that I planned on actually putting any meaningful miles on.
Dplayerx@reddit
When they started making plastic cars, those who still owned huge metal cars were basically invincible lol
AKADriver@reddit
Here's a mental exercise that might help you understand risk.
You drive yourself to the grocery store. You got home and realize you forgot one important thing, you can't make dinner without it. Do you make that second trip?
By making that second trip you expose yourself to double the risk.
That is basically exactly what you would do if you were driving a vehicle made in approximately the early 1980s versus today.
Using fatalities per mile traveled as a rough approximation of how "safe" it was to drive in any particular year, safety basically improved by a factor of two every 25 years or so. (And has basically stalled since about 2010.)
Of course there were extrinsic factors, most of the gains up to the 1950s were due to better driver training and road conditions, some of the gains starting around the '70s come from enforcement of drunk driving, and a lot of the backslide since 2015 comes from driver distraction and increasing vehicle weight.
But this gives a better overall picture than trying to understand risk by looking at crash tests. Another comment showed a 1995 vehicle getting "zero stars." That same car scored "five stars" by 1995 standards and was a vast improvement over the same car from 1985 or 1975.
Extreme_Map9543@reddit
The 1980s is when most cars became safe enough for me to rest easy. But I’d say the hard cutoff is closer to 1997 is when things reached close enough to modern standards that you don’t need to lose sleep at all driving them.
outline8668@reddit
I'm the 1960s I think AMC was the only one doing crash testing. They started with some basic features like a steering wheel and column that were designed to collapse on impact. I think it was 1973 that saw crash beams put in doors and 74 was 3-point front seatbelts. All this stuff was very rudimentary compared to modern cars. If you're going to drive a classic I think you have to treat it like a motorcycle. Drive carefully, defensively and accept that if something does happen it's not going to be pretty.
Immediate_Trifle_881@reddit
Mid 1960s when seat belts became standard. That is the most significant safety feature.
onedelta89@reddit
Around 1970. Seatbelts, collapsible steering columns, disc brakes all combined to greatly reduce potential traffic fatalities. Later ABS brakes and airbags made another big leap towards safety.
laborvspacu@reddit
After the interstate system was built and average speeds and distances went up
OnlyCommentWhenTipsy@reddit
the period when they're parked in your garage.
series_hybrid@reddit
It depends on how mechanical you are for making mods. In 1965, dual piston master cylinders on the brakes were mandated. Before that, one piston served all four brakes. If a brake hose sprang a leak, you would lose all four brakes at the same time. After 1965, you would lose the fronts or the backs, but not both.
I had a 1963 Falcon, and I got spindles out of the salvage yard very cheaply (77 Mercury Monarch, or Maverick, or Mustang), and that allowed me to swap-in front disc brakes. At that time, I also had to swap-in a 2-piston master cylinder that was specifically made for front-disc/rear-drum.
Join a web-forum for the kind of car you get, and they love to share free info on what's possible. I planned to add three-point shoulder seatbelts, which would be a major safety upgrade. Lap-belts only slightly less horrible than no belts.
Smart_History4444@reddit
90s to early 2000s is when safety was used in cars, crumple zones, airbags, so I would say that.