Do you find HOME folder well organized?
Posted by Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit | linux | View on Reddit | 191 comments
I'm pretty basic Linux user for year. I can do some thing, but not like terminal mastermind. I know how to copy and paste some command when is nesccessary.
One thing is not understood for me. Why everything in the HOME folder it's just tossed together. Configuration folders, setting files, some local files, user catalogs, my private catalogs, all this hidden folders.
It wouldn't be better to make this tidy? Like to separate user folders from rest of the configuration files and to not keep adding another files into it constantly.
This is just a curious question, not a rage bite. Similar thing was in my android devices, but recently it doesn't show any hidden folders and it looks like there is only user data.
Thank you
blubberland01@reddit
Not every application respects the file system hierarchy and even less respect the xdg hierarchy.
You can do basically nothing about it, besides tweaking some of those apps yourself or trying to contribute to their code
blubberland01@reddit
Firefox for example puts everything in one directory, even config and cache, despite there dedicated directories for these purposes.
bash and zsh put their configs directly into ~ instead of using ~/.config/..., but you can tweak them.
Then there's the whole thing about where distros put the binaries which I personally think are just useless rules and I'd just dump it all in one.
But it's a preference thing and therefore will very likely always be messy or at least not quite the way you want it to be.
RoomyRoots@reddit
I actually love it about Firefox because I can just copy that folder as a backup and paste in a new machine, very easy and trivial. My directory was originally created 18 years ago.
wronci@reddit
That's seriously impressive. I'm honestly fascinated by that level of config longevity. I realize you're probably transferring files across identical, or near-identical firefox versions, but have you ever encountered any problems doing that?
xatrekak@reddit
I do this as well even though mind isn't nearly as old.
What happens is if you open a newer major version of Firefox it will popup a warning telling you that it will make irreversible changes to your config folder.
I'm sure there is a point where your config folder could be so out of date that Firefox can no longer resolve the dependencies but I have never had issues.
RoomyRoots@reddit
I had, like, 6-7 main PCs since I was 15 so most of these stations lasted way too long. I had the files, images and etc in external hard drivers ( I still have my original disk from 15 years ago working, lol) and just copied \~/.mozilla from a pen drive to the new PC.
The only problems I ever had was when I went to the dev/nightly versions to ESR and back to the normal releases and ti was just some slowdowns. I do manage my stuff with many profiles and refresh the profile if from time to time.
Specialist_Leg_4474@reddit
I have my old 8" floppy Xenix (TRS-80 Model 16) installation disks from 1982.
That was back when they really were "floppy"
blubberland01@reddit
I don't prefer any of the approaches. But I like consistency and would love to see every application going the same route.
But this will never happen. And unless I take a big compromises in functionality, I have to live with it. Some tools are just too good to not use them, only because developers have different preferences in that regard.
Java_enjoyer07@reddit
The shell "config" is rather a startup file it has the old bsd rc ending and is in the root of the user just like old stuff like xorgs files.
GTAzoccer@reddit
Ehm, No?
Firefox puts its whole config in ~/.mozilla. Bad enough, sure. But also there's ~/.cache/mozilla for .. well .. web cache DBs and files.
Even on Windows Firefox is the only Browser (I know of) that acknowledges the difference between roaming AppData and local AppData.
blubberland01@reddit
Maybe I missremember something here. Going to look into it again.
Ghazzz@reddit
You can basically fix it for everyone by contributing code, or you can fix it for yourself by tweaking config files.
"can do basically nothing about it" is the opposite of what is happening here.
DaymanTargaryen@reddit
This battle has been ongoing for decades. It's not as easy as just dropping in a merge lol.
blubberland01@reddit
Not everyone accepts those contributions and not every application is configurable.
Also some applications need env vars to relocate the config, which is imho just moving the mess into another drawer.
Ghazzz@reddit
Make a fork for the middle ground.
The drawer we are trying to clean up here is \~/ as it is what the OP asked about.
KAVFKAH@reddit
Sure, go ahead and fork ssh lol
gajop@reddit
Do people like the XDG hierarchy? I find it so annoying to have files grouped by XDG type/purpose instead of by app. I'd really prefer to see files by app so I can perform manual cleanup easier. Hard to do it when it's all scrambled around.
blubberland01@reddit
I care about consistency.
If it's app dir based, it's app dir based.
If it's XDG, it's XDG.
I do understand both approaches, but do not care about if one is better than the other, because each consistently used would be better than the mess it is right now.
Specialist_Leg_4474@reddit
It's FOSS!
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
Ok, it's good to know it has to be like that. Just I feel that itch to do something with but i don't know how ;) Same I don't know how to set the backup for important files, if I will backup whole /home directory I just transfer all the junk to the new system
Business_Reindeer910@reddit
It is indeed a mess. There is a "standard" called the xdg base directory standard meant to solve this, but many projects don't comply with it or comply badly. Firefox is a popular one that doesn't yet comply (but seems like it finally will after like 14 years or whatever), while chromium technically complies if you don't look closely. It puts things in XDG_CONFIG_HOME that should rather be in XDG_DATA_HOME. Somebody else linked to xdg-ninja and the arch wiki docs to get you part of the way there.
In combination with that I also used these rsync ignore patterns to catch some other junk https://github.com/rubo77/rsync-homedir-excludes/blob/master/rsync-homedir-excludes.txt
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
Thank you, that's probably what was weird to me. Something were organized and some just tossed around. I'll learn about this rsync too. I was testing loads of programs in the past and there was a lot of mess.
Business_Reindeer910@reddit
Whether you use rsync or not isn't important. It's just a nice list of extra things to consider when backing things up with the way they are organized currently.
Unix has history from the 1970s, and Linux from the early 90s so there's a huge mix and old and newer design decisions that led things to being the way they are.
And it's not like windows was organized the way it is now back when windows 95 came out. This stuff just changes over time as we learn more and do better.
blubberland01@reddit
Maybe name the backup directory differently and make it a child directory of your new home. Then iteratively move stuff when you notice something isn't alright.
darth_chewbacca@reddit
It's bad. But it could be worse. At least I know my shit is somewhere in the /home/darth_chewbacca folder.
collectgarbage@reddit
/home/beware_of_the_leopard here, nice to meet you!
Minecraftchest1@reddit
/home/userhere. Nice to meet you.SpreadingRumors@reddit
/home/harmless
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
Hahah you made me laugh. Me same but I'm still noob, don't know what is important what is not ;).
xplosm@reddit
There have been efforts to fix the organization and put config files inside
~/.config/<app_name>and some apps have embraced it, in others you can configure where the cfg file goes to and others have simply not bothered with this. It’s a work in progress.Specialist_Leg_4474@reddit
Thing is Linux has been a WIP project for 31 years now!
xplosm@reddit
A very successful WIP that drives 70 ~ 80% of the internet, endless workstations and personal computing systems, mind you.
Specialist_Leg_4474@reddit
Oh yes, I like Linux, been using it for 20 years or so, exclusively for 10+ years, since I retired and no longer had to use or support Windows.
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
I've been suggests to use symlinks, but I think I'll leave it how it is now. If I'll break my system I'll not recreate what I've done to make it Nvidia run perfect again.
joborun@reddit
browsers and their derivatives are the most frequent offenders, they market to ms-windows users. But there are others, mostly proprietary projects who want their brand name to be in the root of ~/ instead of hidden in ~/.config/
caliosso@reddit
I just remove finland garbage and put it into trash
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Icy_Pollution_2178@reddit
xdg-ninja
FryBoyter@reddit
You can also use the list at https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/XDG_Base_Directory#Support. This also provides background information.
As an alternative to xdg-ninja, there is also https://github.com/queer/boxxy.
mesaprotector@reddit
boxxy is fantastic but unpolished; it's a perfect solution for rarely used misbehaving applications, but if you want to use it with stuff like Firefox it requires a bit of patience and tweaking. I have only 14 items in my $HOME, all of which I want to be there.
And hardly anyone seems to know about it yet.
FryBoyter@reddit
Can you please explain this in more detail? Because based on the list mentioned, Firefox seems to be “hardcoded” so that you can't change anything in general.
The question is serious, by the way, because I haven't worked with boxxy properly yet. Basically, I have given up on cleaning up the configuration files. I think a sensible directory structure for user files makes more sense.
mesaprotector@reddit
That's exactly the purpose of boxxy, those hardcoded directories. xdg-ninja shows you how to move the dotfiles that can be moved in a normal way; boxxy actually redirects an application to a folder of your choice when they can't. I have the following in my boxxy config file (along with seven other rules):
Any time Firefox is running and tries to read/write from .mozilla, boxxy makes it look at .local/share/firefox instead. This does have the side effect that there is an empty .mozilla folder around while Firefox is running, which disappears when it isn't.
DNLST@reddit
Can you share your full boxxy config?
mesaprotector@reddit
It's not very interesting; most of the rules look almost exactly like the one I posted.
Firefox in particular is tough because the .mozilla/extensions dir is created separately (you make nested rules for this), and on top of that you need to tell Firefox anyway about the new location of your profile. Plus if it's pkilled it won't clean up the empty directory.
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
Thank you, It looks pretty useful. Is it safe to use it or should I copy my user folders to another drive just to be safe?
aqjo@reddit
Always make a backup.
The answer to, “should I make a copy of this, just in case?” Is always, “yes.”
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
I need look again into the backup apps, didn't have luck with Pica I think.
aqjo@reddit
I use vorta. It has worked well for me for about 2 years.
I think Pika and Vorta use the same backend (Borg), but Pika didn’t work well for my use.
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
That's interesting, ill try vorta then. Thank you
Icy_Pollution_2178@reddit
The script just lists possible fixes, the actual changes have to be done manually.
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
Ok, understood. I'll see what will be printed out
evencuriouser@reddit
Woah I didn't know about this. So cool!
DFS_0019287@reddit
OT Pet peeve: directory, not "folder". "Folder" is an abominable Windoze/Macism. Thank you.
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
"Directory is a file system concept. In a GUI the directory is represented as a Folder." I don't think anyone else is gatekeeping word "folder"
DFS_0019287@reddit
Well, they should be gatekeeping it. 🙂
In the terminal,
cdobviously stands for "change folder", right?Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
"In the terminal,.." , folder is used GUI.
DFS_0019287@reddit
GUIs are for newbies.
FryBoyter@reddit
Only people without a clue judge users by whether they use certain tools (whether with a graphical interface or not) or not.
DFS_0019287@reddit
The fact is that GUIs are designed for newbies.
FryBoyter@reddit
As I see it, you should use what makes the most sense for a particular application. It's not just black and white.
For example, I can transfer files with sftp in the terminal emulator. Nevertheless, I prefer to use FileZilla. And I am absolutely sure that I am faster with FileZilla. Especially when it comes to copying several files in different directories because I simply have a better overview with FileZilla.
I am also faster with other editors than vim to get a task done.
So in my opinion it doesn't matter if a GUI was originally made for newbies. It depends on how you use certain tools correctly. Especially as certain things have evolved. I wouldn't want to use a termial emulator from 1970 nowadays either. Just as I now prefer certain tools to the old tools such as cat, grep etc.
DFS_0019287@reddit
I never said things were better in the past.
I said GUIs were designed for newbies.
But anyway, calling a directory a "folder" is wrong for at least a couple of reasons.
First of all, it isn't a folder. Real folders generally contain files, but they almost never contain other folders, so the metaphor breaks down. Directories are more abstract and have a specific meaning in computer science, so we should stick to the more accurate term.
Secondly, everything else on Linux calls directories "directories", from the kernel source code through system calls and C library functions all the way to commands. So why should the nomenclature suddenly change in the GUI? It would be like calling a file a file everywhere except in the GUI where it could be called a "dossier" or something. This is a gratuitous change.
Yeah, I realize this is a losing battle. But I'm gonna fight it anyway because the dumbing-down of computing annoys the crap out of this veteran of computing. 🙂
LoudAstronaut6974@reddit
omg you have so much spare time. what battle? you're fighting alone.
people understand that you obviously cannot have a real folder inside another folder because it doesn't make sense, but nothing "breaks down" really... you have a serious problem with language, which is a tool we humans use. looks like skill issue to me.
DFS_0019287@reddit
I do have spare time because I'm retired.
And don't criticize my language skills when your grammar is nothing to write home about.
LoudAstronaut6974@reddit
alright there was no need to be rude so i'm sorry.
but I'm saying let people just call it folder anyways. they are probably aware and used to how directories work and how it is actually directories and not folder, but 'folder' just works as well and it's shorter to type and spell.
DFS_0019287@reddit
Yeah, I get it. But we're all allowed to have one pet peeve. This is mine.
OldTiredAndDontCare@reddit
Don't understand all the fuss about home directory. The vast majority of things are in .config and .local/share, and whatever else is put in is almost always dotfiles which are hidden by default anyway. If it really bugs you, keep it hidden unless you need it.
DK114@reddit
This is one of the reasons I like flatpaks.
I have Firefox, Thunderbird, and Steam installed as flatpaks so they dont seem to make random folders in my home directory any more.
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
Yes , it makes sense. :)
Magus7091@reddit
A trick I learned a few years back has really helped me with my organization, maybe it'll help you, visually at least. We all know dotfiles are hidden, but if an app is liking for ~/app/ you can't hide it by changing it to ~/.app/ because that's a different path. What you can do, however, is create a plain text file called .hidden with each line being the name of a file or directory that you want hidden, one per line. So you can have ~/app/ hidden by simply placing a .hidden file in ~ as one of the lines.
If you didn't know this, hopefully it'll help.
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
That's pretty useful. Thank you, good to hide unwanted folders
S4ndwichGurk3@reddit
I have everything in $HOME/dotfiles $HOME/projects, $HOME/uni or $HOME/
Specialist_Leg_4474@reddit
Let me preface this by stating that I LIKE Linux--been using it for over 20 years, 10+ exclusively since i retired and no longer had to use or support that M$ "fuster-cluck".
That said, i have to admit that the general disorganization and lack of any standardization re: application and configuration file locations, are a couple of the things that support the "Linux is for geeks" assertion.
Unfortunately we can only hang our heads in shame--when it's put forth as evidence of that assertion...
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
Thank you, congratulations on your retirement, I can only dream about it for now :).
I'm not experienced user, pretty casual. Most of the times when I had problems it was because of lack of some drivers and couldn't get over it.
I really don't like m$, I was recently struggle on some course to use Win11. I was really lost, Linux looks cleaner and more functional for me. I was asking older lady next to me how to use ms office, It wasn't intuitive at all. New menu start was a nightmare, I can speak only about the GUI, but it was bad.
I've installed Fedora for couple of my friends, their new laptops were struggle with win11, new laptops couldn't handle even a system. Fedora runs on these laptops perfectly.
I have a lot of respect for while Linux community, availability of drivers, simplicity of installation and use it's fabulous. Since I found Fedora, I don't have to stress any more. I still got some cosmetic and functional issues with new Gnome, but I'm scared to suggest anything out loud. I'd be eaten alive by the creators ;).
Specialist_Leg_4474@reddit
Be careful or you may end up being one of me!
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
Haha one day, one day :)
WasdHent@reddit
Just kinda how it is, for the average user you don’t need to dig through it, but it can suck when you do. At the very least, I generally know where to look, but finding flatpak files is a nightmare. I had to find some for dolphin emulator and hadn’t the slightest idea where to look. Luckily, dolphin’s file locations are listed in the settings, so I was able to get to where I needed to. Couldn’t imagine finding them on my own.
SaltyMaybe7887@reddit
I don't get what the issue is, where else would they be?
Sirius707@reddit
Many programs etc. just dump their stuff randomly in /home/username/
For example Firefox has a .cache folder and a .mozilla one. Steam got .steam, .steampath, .steampid. So over time your home folder just becomes a big mess of files which irks people who like to keep things organized and tidy (like myself).
Remuz@reddit
steam rubs salt on the wound by having .steampath as a broken link (which ir re-creates if you remove it)
SaltyMaybe7887@reddit
A lot of these programs have environment variables you can set to make them respect xdg user dirs. Firefox and SSH are some of the only exceptions.
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
Sorry for confusion, other comments look like they know what my issue is.
kjodle@reddit
With great power comes great responsibility. Which means that it's up to you, the user, to know where all this stuff is going.
But yep, I agree that it would be nice if there were more consistency here. But I'll gladly trade a lack of consistency for not having to deal with Windows.
felipec@reddit
I have my home directory tracked in git with my own tool dot-tools. I have a
calias fordot-config, and then I just do:To see the changes I've made to all the configuratons that are tracked.
To see the new files that I haven't tracked yet.
If I don't want to track a certain file or directory, I just add it to the
.gitignorefile, or just delete it.It's pretty easy once you get used to it.
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
It sounds intereting, I'll give a look. Thank you
natermer@reddit
No, it is terrible.
And everytime people try to fix it there rises a horde of developers and users that want to protect their ancient wisdom and hidden knowledge from those that would try to make things sane.
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
It takes tike for me to find things sometime, but I will be ok. I've got a lesson about Linux history at least.
Far-Cat@reddit
I put my files in a Projects subfolder, my effective home
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
I got Projects folder for all my creations, it's like a jungle inside, manynthibgs what one day can be useful. :)
HiPhish@reddit
Welcome to the madness that is dotfiles. Dotfiles are actually a bug: in the early days of Unix when
.and..were added someone thought that having those two every single time in the output oflswas annoying. So he added a little check to filter them out. However, instead of checking for the full strings.and..he just checked whether the first characters was., and thus dotfiles were born.As you have rightfully noted it is a mess because all sorts of different files (configuration, data, cache, logs) are all entangled. Other people thought the same and made the XDG Base Directory specification. It's really good because it splits the files by type: configuration (which you might want to version-control), data (which you might want to backup), logs and caches (which you might want to delete). Plus, you can change the base directories through environment variables.
Some applications follow it, some can be coerced, and some flat-out refuse it for one reason or another. I still have a lot of dotfiles in my home directory, but it's still better than what it would be like without XDG Base Directories. Legacy and corporate applications are really bad at following the spec.
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
I see there are mixed feelings about my question in the comments, but that is creating interesting conversations. Someone mention about early days of linux, but I tried 25 years ago for the first time red hat cd from my friend and I didn't know anybody to help witj. Later was just windows 98, xp time. When ubuntu came out it was already easier. Funny thing that I don't that much, but still I found it pretty accessable, the were up and down, but still everything works fine for me. This days qiality of some programs is amazing.
Reizath@reddit
Tbh I don't care too much about hidden folders, I see them once in a while. But there is that one game, Project Zomboid. It's great, devs are great, it has a native Linux version. But for some unfanthomable reason, on default, that game makes plain folder with it's logs, cache, save etc. in /home. Then you have Documents Videos Photos etc and Zomboid. I don't get it why, that just... feels bad. And fixing this is changing one line in config, but that's on player to do.
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
I have few others like that, so many what I have no idea are they still installed ;/
midgaze@reddit
"HOME" "folder"?
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
Directory :)
HolyGarbage@reddit
I despise any application that doesn't follow the XDG standard, and will go to great lengths enforcing it. `.ssh` is the only thing that get a pass.
Inevitable-Series879@reddit
I tried to organize my shit, failed and it gets worse everyday. Honestly I think that is just how Linux is. You just can’t organize it no matter how much you want to.
Inevitable-Series879@reddit
This is how it feels
unorganized
berickphilip@reddit
"Standarized folders" are a mess in every system, not only Linux.
Windows also has some folders that are supposed to be used in a certain same way for any and all programs, but in reality everything is all over the place.
What sounds obvious, tidy and organized for s9me developers and some programs, is different for other developers, programs.. even users think differently.
Myselffor example, I really like a "one main directory per program" approach. Similar to some smallportable apps in Windows, the ones tha have everything they need inside their folder and also pnly save stuff and files inside the same folder.
Then again a lot of people hate that, because there can be a lot of duplicate stuff in the drive - for example dll files.
So all in all, using an operating system that millions of different people use is bound to not be 100% organized according to anyone's way of thinking.
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
It sounds reasonable and I've been told today that's because of developers not following rules. I'm fine with that, I think it was good question and discussion here, many different approaches and opinions. I had low space on my ssd drive and i was trying to tide the drive a little bit. I found old wine, steam and unrecognizable folders. I didn't know which one is important and which one wasn't. If everything would be in one directory, like for example .config, or something like . apps , I wouldn't probably even be bothered.
I know some things but not everything. I'm using Linux since many years and mostly in GUI, I found it pretty easy to use till something really serious occurs. There was a moment when I even tried Arch and it was ok. I even installed Fedora to couple my friends and they have no any idea about Linux and it theirs everyday driver. I'm really happy with all what I've learned today.
I'm going now to install backup program and save my photos directory. I can't be happier. Thank you
_Aetos@reddit
You can use Ctrl+H to hide/unhide hidden files. (At least works for the file managers I know.)
In my home directory, the only configuration or app data folders which are not in
.cache,.config,.local, or.varare.mozilla,.sshand.pki. I make applications like VS Code write their folders into their own folder under.local/homeby settingHOME=in their desktop files. And there's also a handful of files like.bashrcsitting outside of folders.The rest of my home directory are all user folders. No user files, they always go in a folder. I find this reasonably tidy, and if I only want to see my own files, I can just hit Ctrl+H.
One of the good things is that everything besides my folders are hidden. (And if there are folders or files like
snapwhich aren't hidden by default, you can always manually mark them as hidden folders using.hidden.) There aren't many hidden folders and files, so I usually keep them unhidden. But if it bothers you, you can easily hide them.Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
Thank you, yes I see the folders are hidden most of the time, just been wondering couldn't be this just straight forward, user folders and I can make my mess around, and important files, configs and all this .dot folders going to one place,
I have many folders there, .steam .sane .luts .kde . gnome .hpplip . mozzilla .nv . pki . var . wine, vcpkg .zoom .local . icons . gphoto .gnupg .cups . conda . cach .android .adb and few conf files. Maybe just ocd ;), but I'd use one folder for all configuration files.
When I install something it just create folders for them self, I understand folders like .config .icons .themes but I'd use one folder for theming, one for all the apps, one for catch.
Is this is what you are trying to explained by using VS Code?
mwyvr@reddit
Most configuration is in ~/.config. it makes sense to back these up, for the most part.
Much of the rest you can ignore and leave be.
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
Wow, thank you, that's good to know.
_Aetos@reddit
~/.localis also very important, as it includes app data, many of which aren't technically configurations but in practice very much are.Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
ok , that's good to know , is it something like save files form steam or other emulators?
_Aetos@reddit
Kind of. All user data that's not cache or strict configurations go there. But some applications like Firefox and iirc Steam will write their own folders directly into home, which is why it's so messy to begin with.
If you go into
~/.local/share, you'll find folders like icons, fonts, themes etc. that the system uses. And a lot will be stuff like window sizes and positions, pane sizes and layouts, menu bar layouts, etc.Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
Whole system using this directory to read, so that's user date separated, I understand. I got read write access to this folders in my home directory, but only read access in
~/.local/share. So if I don't have anything in them in my user home directory , that can be just deleted?mwyvr@reddit
You shouldn't be going around deleting .files or .folders - tame any OCD tendencies you have to clean things up and leave things be until you've learned a lot more, and by that point you'll still leave things be.
What you should probably do is learn a dot file manager like chezmoi, to manage and ensure your meaningful configuration files are backed up and/or are transportable to a new machine or a VM or a future installation.
And don't forget to learn how to back to your meaningful data, and do that regularly.
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
Thank you, you probably right, this was just a question from curiosity. I've been looking for something recently and I saw a lot of directories from applications which I don't use anymore. Someone explained to me that it is like that because developers are not following Linux rules. I've accept this and I'll do not touch anything.
_Aetos@reddit
A lot of these folders can be hidden away.
.icons(and.fontsand.themes) can be moved into.local/share.Some of these folders can be deleted, but I'm not familiar with all of them so I won't recommend anything.
For the others, and future ones that you don't want, either try the trick I mentioned with VS Code where you insert
HOME=before their exec path in their desktop files (if they're inusr/share/applications, make a copy into.local/share/applicationsto override), or check the table here: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/XDG_Base_Directory.I think it makes sense that at least
.cache,.config,.local, and.varneed to be separate folders, as they're too different.If that is not enough, here's another solution. You could make another partition for your personal files. There, zero hidden files. Just make sure it mounts at startup, and default your file manager to open that location. You could even symlink everything in that partion back into the actual home partition so that to processes, it's identical to a normal home directory setup. I actually did this partially, with all my coding projects for easier navigation.
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
I think I've started once doing symlink thing, but got lost later.
I'll try to change some folder using your trick, I will read that wikipage too , thank you
_Aetos@reddit
Actually, creating a new partition for the second solution might be overkill. I did a separate partition for other reasons. You could probably just create a single folder for all your files and make the file manager start in that folder each time. And you won't need to symlink.
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
I'll try to tide up , like you said in your trick , I think that's pretty good to me for now.
_Aetos@reddit
To symlink, what you could do is:
That's it.
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
Coppied, thank you so much
_Aetos@reddit
No problem.
Icy_Pollution_2178@reddit
But for me it is sweeping them under the rug
makisekuritorisu@reddit
It's an absolute mess because of apps that don't comply with xdg specs, so I moved my xdg dirs to
~/files/{videos,pictures,downloads,...}
Now home is still a mess, but stuff I care about daily is properly organized in ~/files.
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
It makes sense, thank you.
J3S5null@reddit
Okay, it's a long story, but it started before there was really any standardization for it. The tldr is they needed a place to put config files that was out of the way and wouldn't clutter up anything. Well files names starting with a . are always hidden files, so they just started adding them to the begin of things most users wouldn't be using and just dumped them in an easy location...the home folder... There is obviously much more to it than that, and now a days there are standards on where and how to store dotfiles. However, many older programs haven't switched to using it, and unaware developers see all the clutter in the home folder anyway which leads to not following good practices. And rant over, sorry...
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
Thank you, that's explaining this pretty clear. no complains from my side anymore.
BokehPhilia@reddit
This is one of the only things I hate about Linux and miss about Windows All the stuff in the home folder luckily is hidden in GUI file managers. But not in the terminal sadly. I don't like all the config files and directories junking up my home folder where only my personal documents, photos, videos, download folder, music, and other default folders should be.
Hotshot55@reddit
Windows works in the exact same way.
TheOneTrueTrench@reddit
The only way to see the hidden files in your $HOME directory is to literally add the -a or -A flag when you run
ls.If you don't want to see hidden files in your terminal, just
stop going out of your way to see them..Secoluco@reddit
Doesn't pretty much every GUI file manager in Linux have a toggle to hide dot files? Also, in the terminal, by using the ls command, you would have to go out of your way to see the hidden files by adding a flag to it.
Upstairs-Comb1631@reddit
CTRL+H or left ALT+.
tes_kitty@reddit
The advantage of everything in $HOME is that it's easy to backup. You want to migrate to a new system? After installation copy $HOME over and all your data and all your settings will be there.
Not like Windows where this doesn't work since lots of stuff is in the registry.
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
Yes, if that's make sense than of course. Just wondering can that be done more clean way, like all the software creating config files in one direction like under "applications/. Themes application/config applications/catch
cbarrick@reddit
It is hidden in the terminal...
lshides dotfiles by default. You have to explicitly pass-a(or-A) to see dotfiles.BranchLatter4294@reddit
Stop unhiding the hidden folders. Those settings files are in your home folder so that they don't impact the settings of other users.
Beautiful_Crab6670@reddit
imo I find it very organized as is -- "self-explanatory" even. Then again you can always sort things out the way you want by creating symlinks --
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
Thank you. I'm not gone move directories around without knowing what are they doing. I've been told in comments above why it is like that. Developers don't follow the rules. I'm fine with this answer :)
Beautiful_Crab6670@reddit
Odd of you to say that, since your thread says exactly the opposite -- asking if (something) is organized or not implies that you are aware what it is. Also you (literally) said on how things in the HOME folder is "tossed together" -- meaning you know what lies inside it.
Still, I'm not here to teach you very basic things like the meaning of common english words and whatnot, so eh.
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
I've been explained, why it is like that, please read the answer been given to this topic.
jonathancast@reddit
It's fine.
Looking at it in a file manager or running ls gives you too much output, but don't do that.
If you have any idea what you're looking for, you can use a glob / file name completion to find the specific file you're looking for pretty quickly.
It's harder when people "organize" files but don't follow a standard, so you have to dig around finding which directory a file was "organized" into.
Misicks0349@reddit
I try to, flatpak can help a bit, but for some reason arch always makes an empty "~/.cache" folder at startup despite setting XDG_CACHE_HOME and it bugs me to no end lol
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
I don't like flatpack, I don't have wifi and applications are so big, Signal app is nearly 500mb, there is so much to download everytime
Misicks0349@reddit
thats for the libraries which are shared, once you've downloaded a couple they get down to "normal" sizes
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
Ok, didn't know this. I'll check this next time. thank you
Secoluco@reddit
Simply put, the dependencies are pulled and stored in the "Flatpak layer". If another application needs the same exact dependency, instead of downloading it again therefore duplicating, it would just share the same dependency already installed in the "Flatpak layer". If there's no longer any application dependent on that specific library, it will be automatically deleted.
Surely it will take a bit more space than a regular package, but it will not be that big of a difference in my opinion.
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
Ok , it sounds logical. I was assuming it always downloading 500mb of signal app, but gnome software is very slow on my machine, I use terminal for updates because is much quicker
Secoluco@reddit
Yeah. There's an application called Warehouse which is a Flatpak manager. It is basically GNOME software but lighter and faster. You can install via Flatpak and it is available on GitHub.
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
I'll keep using terminal, it's just one click to me. I have kde as well. i don't like download to many apps now, i have few what I'm really happy with them and I stopped looking for anything new. Thank yoy
Unaidedbutton86@reddit
Gnome Software is pretty slow everywhere, it has its flaws (it only finishes loading after another application has been (un)installed, searches are not optimized, etc), but I hope DNF5 changes something
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
Ok , it would be convince. Right now I'm using dnf update way in terminal. On Kde there is no problem like that , it's way faster
daemonpenguin@reddit
My home directory is well organized.
As for configuration/dotfiles, I've never really seen why people get upset about them. They're hidden so you shouldn't even see them, so it doesn't matter if they are in the top-level directory or in .config. They are just as easy to ignore/backup/clean in either location.
I've never had to think twice about them in the 25 years I've been running Linux.
sleepingonmoon@reddit
Dotfiles are definitely not. Flatpak sandbox is godsend for me.
The default user folders covered most of my need, so no complaint.
Trousers_Rippin@reddit
You can really go down a rabbit hole with this stuff...
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/XDG_Base_Directory
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
Yes, I was out sent to that wiki page already. I think, I will just forget about all this for now. I'll start touching things and something will be broke again. Had already couple accidents during Nvidia installation, I'm glad everything works for now.
Trousers_Rippin@reddit
It's fun to play with. It took me a while to get mine setup exactly how I wanted it. I learned a lot on that journey too.
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
Sounds tempting, I'm thinking about getting new hard drive, at least 2-4tb so I'll try to creat some partition for testing ground in VM
Trousers_Rippin@reddit
VMs definitely the way to go.
If you Google something like "xdg .config GNU stow dotfiles git" you'll find plenty of GitHub repos that you can copy/edit
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
Noted down, so many helpful advises. Thank you
eszlari@reddit
The is a standard, but unfortunately, not every app respects it:
https://specifications.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/latest/
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
Ok, that's make sense. it was same with android on my phone, but since I've got the new one it looks much cleaner.
Unaidedbutton86@reddit
That's because newer android versions restrict access to the full Internal Storage directory for most apps and only allows specific apps on the play store to ask it (file managers and similar)
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
Ok, that's make sense to me now. Before it was looking similar to my home directory and now everything is in folders
ChocolateDonut36@reddit
I have downloads, descargas, documents, documentos, Images, Imagenes...
CleoMenemezis@reddit
Yeah, I hate when some program put dot files/folders on my home dir. I hope they try to use more the xdg
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
The problem is I never know which one is important and which one is not. Need to learn more about it
Netherarmy@reddit
I mean... Home folder is the default for everything related to your user and your user only... So ofc it has all of your condig files for things that aren't shared between users? I don't get what the issue is
Almost all of these configs an whatnot are in hidden folders too, so they don't have to show up if you don't want them to
Otlap@reddit
I do find HOME folder quite organized. But mainly because I don't have "hidden folders" shown. On one hand, having all of the folders in HOME is quite good in some way (for ex. when you need to access some path to a folder, that is usually resides in home). On the other - it looks messy when hidden folders are shown.
It's a convenience over looks. I don't really mind, but it could be better for sure.
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
Yes, you are right. Just some apps are leaving mess and I'd organized this different, but someone said that you can't forced developers to do something how do I want
bunkermunken@reddit
XDG DIRS and aliasing mean programs 😁
Damglador@reddit
I was able to live with .config and .locla folders, but currently I think there's 10 hidden folders and 10 hidden files in my home directly, so I have to turn "Show hidden" off all the time except when I really need it. It's really annoying, because some hidden files and folders are totally useless, and some, like .config and .local, are absolutely necessary.
The other solution might be to make unhidden alias/link to .config and .local in my home directly or wherever, but if I use it in paths and then delete it it'll break random programs because I used /home/damglador/Config/.. and not /home/damglador/.config/.. in them.
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
Yes, it's just a cosmetics. I don't want to play with path too much, I'll not fix it later
Damglador@reddit
It also slows me down because the dots files are always above and it literally pushes all my folders off the view so I have to scroll down every time I visit my home folder if the folders aren't hidden. Maybe I should just have my regular folders from ~ pinned on a sidebar
TomDuhamel@reddit
Dot files/folders shouldn't show up by default, so that's already out of the way and I don't really care about them.
For my own files, I do use the Documents folder for all the office and other random files, and I create folders for projects and Blender and stuff like that.
It's only a mess if you make it a mess 😉
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
Understood, you have absolutely right. Just that was curious question, I don't understand coding or scripting, but I have ocd and got that itch to try to tide this up :)
mok000@reddit
Pretty much all configs are in dot directories which are normally hidden. I care about a few dozen dotfiles that I maintain in a git repo and install as symbolic links.
hangejj@reddit
For my needs, yes. I have no issues.
Ikem32@reddit
No. Exact this is the reason why backup and restore is way easier on Linux.
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
OK, I didn't have much luck with backups yet. I'll try again
Ikem32@reddit
I mean, safe what’s in „/home“ reinstall the system and restore to „/home“.
Or if something broke, create a new profile and copy over the files from your old profile.
mok000@reddit
And make
/homereside on a separate partition or disk and you can reinstall Linux any time and keep your files and settings.archontwo@reddit
If you can find any document, image or program with little or no searching, your home folder is well organised.
If you spend minutes or even hours looking for stuff in your own data. Then it is disorganised.
KaumasEmmeci@reddit
My home is a mess, but at leats i know i would backup only that folder in case and nothng else.
BoltLayman@reddit
Mostly you can't dictate developers how to shit into your home dir. Yes, it exactly look like a delivery man may shit on your porch or at least leave a graffity on your door.
But there is no way to do anything about it at the moment.
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
Yes, it makes sense, it was only polite curious question. I don't know how the rules are followed.
BoltLayman@reddit
Yeah, tenants might be polite, but is it still their porch... %-/// THe same nightmare is continuing with Windows home dirs as well.
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
I don't understand windows. I had to use it in school recently and It was so much going on there.
evencuriouser@reddit
There is the XDG directory spec which is supposed to fix this, but unfortunately a lot of software doesn't adhere to it. Some software will let you specify locations which you can manually set to the standard locations if they don't adhere to it by default. Note these are dot folders. Generally your own personal data should live in non-hidden folders, so that when you
ls(or have hidden files switched off in a graphical file browser), you only see your personal stuff and not all the app data/config stuff.Outrageous_Trade_303@reddit
Well, have you seen your user folder in some other OS? It's a mess in any OS.
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
I didn't, I'm sorry. I'm on Linux at least 20 years with small episode with macbook and back to Linux.
Outrageous_Trade_303@reddit
As per you post you are using linux for a year.
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
thank you for pointing this, just corrected. was missing plural
Outrageous_Trade_303@reddit
OK
prodleni@reddit
I don’t think it’s so bad. You put your documents in ~/Documents, etc. I like having stuff in the home folder so I can quickly access it from opening a terminal.
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
Yes , just like I commented above. One folder for all things related to applications in one folder.
Omotai@reddit
It's bad. The easiest way to "fix" it is probably to make another folder inside your /home/username directory and pretend that's your actual personal user directory, and put the mess in the actual top level out of mind.
Negative_Pink_Hawk@reddit (OP)
Thank you, yes that's make sense, but than all the applications will start creating this folders back by trying to read designed direction?