Israel requests more US help ahead of their strike on Iran
Posted by Joshistotle@reddit | PrepperIntel | View on Reddit | 187 comments
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israel-said-to-request-us-send-second-thaad-missile-defense-battery-ahead-of-iran-attack/
improbablydrunknlw@reddit
I have a feeling Israels response is going to be history making, I think Iran will have no choice but to respond almost immediately. There's no way Israel is calling for more help if they didn't think it'd be a symbolic response.
Ajenthavoc@reddit
They're high on the confirmed kia of sinwar. They want to win on every front and sounds like they're going for the big escalation beyond all escalations which has been their approach since day 1 of their war.
But the realities remain. Hezbollah drones and rockets are already leaking past their air defense systems, causing significant damage and casualties. Iran has shown they cause massive damage to Israel if they want to. And despite the utter bloodshed and destruction in Gaza, Hamas is still fighting back and causing casualties, and Israel is no closer to releasing the hostages.
All in all this looks like arrogance enabled by the Uncle Sam insurance policy which is underwriting this risk.
theloveburts@reddit
Nobody here really gets what's going on there. Israel has a nuclear ready arm who could have glassed both Gaza and Iran if they wanted to. For obvious reasons, that will be a last resort.
This is what Israel playing nice to make the international community happy looks like.
The US will likely send Israel whatever they ask for in terms of defensive weapons as long as they don't hit Iran's nuclear sites or nuke anyone.
Literally everyone inside of Iran and most of the rest of the Middle East is just waiting for Israel to solve their Iran problem for them. Of course they are going to criticize Israel every step of the way, because of course they will.
The bottom line is most countries in the Middle East see the Iran as a huge problem. The leaders of other ME countries see the Palestinian/Israeli conflict as something one step away from a sporting event, where they have their favorite team that cheer for because it keep the plebs happy and thinking all Muslims are on the same team.
The people running all those ME countries aren't wild about Palestinians. They say all the right things but do literally nothing to help. They don't even take Palestinian refugees anymore.
They see Palestinians as violent radicals even by Muslim standards who refuse to follow even the most basic rules. If you think Iran is fundamentalist, I can guarantee you that Palestinians are just as bad in their own way.
I remember a few years ago the Palestinian representative walked out of a symposium on domestic violence hosted by a ME country saying not beating your wife was western nonsense and they were going to follow the Quran. It was really frustrating for the other representatives.
Palestinians have proven themselves ungovernable time and time again. They've violently attacked and attempted to take over every single country who ever welcomed their refugees.
mfchitownthrowaway@reddit
The issue is that what you say goes against the anti-Israel narrative so many people have happily gobbled up so no one will openly agree with you despite the proof being there. Good on you for speaking up though. Take my upvote!
1Squid-Pro-Crow@reddit
No the issue is that no one with logical thinking believes that 15 million Palestinians are all one thing, or even the 5 million in the area.
We're better than that thinking. We're smarter than that thinking.
We don't like that line when it's applied to us (white people are X, Americans are Y). We know it's not only false but logically impossible.
We also know those generalizations are used to justify genocide.
theloveburts@reddit
You are so odorant of this conflict that you don't even know all the the things you don't know.
I'm really glad that you think YOU know so much more about Palestinians than they know about themselves. Palestine have performed internal surveys of their own people both in the West Bank and in Gaza AFTER the the attack on Oct 7th and found that 84% of respondents AGREED with either the attack on Oct 7th or wanting Hamas to be part of any government moving forward after the war.
You say they don't all support Hamas but the vast majority not only support Hamas but have support any terrorist organization for the the last 75 years who promised to kill all the Jews and hand over to them the land that Israel sits on.
These people don't want peace. They want the land that Israel sits on because to them it is a Holy Waqf.
STRAIGHT FROM THE HAMAS CHARTER
"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (Preamble)
"The land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf [Holy Possession] consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgment Day. No one can renounce it or any part, or abandon it or any part of it." (Article 11)
"Palestine is an Islamic land... Since this is the case, the Liberation of Palestine is an individual duty for every Moslem wherever he may be." (Article 13)
"The day the enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In the face of the Jews' usurpation, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised." (Article 15)
"Ranks will close, fighters joining other fighters, and masses everywhere in the Islamic world will come forward in response to the call of duty, loudly proclaiming: 'Hail to Jihad!'. This cry will reach the heavens and will go on being resounded until liberation is achieved, the invaders vanquished and Allah's victory comes about." (Article 33)
Stop applying your own ideas of right and wrong to a situation you literally can't begin to wrap your mind around.
mfchitownthrowaway@reddit
They don’t want to hear the truth because it shatters their world view. The truth hurts and some people aren’t equipped to handle it.
1Squid-Pro-Crow@reddit
False and lies.
These are the kind of generalizations that are used to justify genociding an entire people.
It's downright illogical to say X million people are something, but moreso, it's disgusting because we all recognize why it's said.
Suckamanhwewhuuut@reddit
These aren’t lies, why do you think Egypt triple fortified its borders and Jordan refused to take in refugees. A Palestinan man assassinated the king of Jordan.
https://www.google.com/search?q=assassination+king+of+jordan&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari#cobssid=s
theloveburts@reddit
Not to mention that unrest and agitation by Palestinian refugees in Lebanon triggered their civil war.
AND Palestinian refuges in Kuwait sided with Saddam Hussein during the Kuwait war and were all expelled after US forces kicked Iraqi forces out of the country.
They've caused so much chaos over the years and been so violent that no other ME country will take them in.
Some say that even after Palestinians were defeated after Black September in Jordan that their king took a Palestinian wife to appease them. It took a good old fashioned EM marriage alliance to keep them from agitating all over again.
Did you notice the when Jordan's queen Noor spoke out about the war in Gaza her husband still didn't offer to take in any refugees? Welp, that's the reason, Palestinians can't be trusted not to try to take over the place.
Ajenthavoc@reddit
So I guess it was "Never again*" as opposed to "Never Again."
Refugees are always initially damaging for other countries. They take resources away from citizens, require a lot of education and state intervention to mitigate against extremism and crime, and are an easy target for right wing groups.
Remember, these are a people in a setting of desperation. They've seen the worst of humanity and among these people, everyone has lost at least one person close to them with the world ignoring their plight. These are a people that are being systematically broken.
Lebanese were pissed when the Syrians shows up after their civil war, as were the Turks. Americans are pissed with the Haitians and south Americans showing up (may be the defining factor of this election). Europeans are getting pissed with the Ukrainians, middle easterners, and north Africans.
But the biggest difference between all these refugee problems is that the Palestinian refugees are a purely Israeli creation. Israel decided that the type of country it wants to be requires the world to have a Palestinian problem. So why should Egypt, Jordan, or Lebanon have to absorb them?
For anyone that has difficulty empathizing with these people, I highly recommend you challenge your mindset and read a few excerpts from "The Displaced: Refugee Writers on Refugee Lives" by Viet Thanh Nguyen. It's a set of many stories from different parts of the world and hopefully will humanize these people to you.
theloveburts@reddit
This isn't about refugees taking away resources. It's about them trying to take over the host country in order to rule over it themselves or to use it to generate money for weapons to fight their never ending war against Israel.
Remember the one and only thing Palestinians want is the land that Israel sits on. It's all they've ever wanted. To assume that the problem is people have a 'difficulty empathizing' with THESE people is beyond naïve. Don't use the term 'these people', it's kind of rude.
Some of us lived through Palestinian terrorism and saw it all first hand. I remember Black September. I remember how the Lebanese civil war started. I remember Palestinians hijacking commercial airliners all around the world and blowing them to draw attention to their cause. I remember watching them hijack a Italian commercial luxury liner. They dumped a poor disable Jewish young man overboard in his wheelchair and watched him drown simply to prove they were serious. I remember then blowing up school buses and that time they murdered a bunch of Jewish athletes at the Munich Olympics. I remember when Palestinians celebrated in the streets when the twin towers coming down, kind of like they did after the videos started getting posted on Oct 7th. The problem is not that I lack empathy. It's simply that I reserve it for the victims of Palestinian violence that I've seen with my own eyes. Palestinians can stop the war anytime they want. All they have to do is surrender and hand over whatever hostages they haven't murdered.
As for why should Egypt, Jordan, or Lebanon should have to absorb them, I don't think they should. It's telling that they've burned their bridges with every Arab county in the Middle East and instead of the question being why can't Palestinians be trusted to follow the laws of the land wherever they reside? That question is simply never asked in favor of questioning why other countries should have to take them. It's a little slight of hand that manipulative debaters use to shift the topic of discussion away from Palestinian behavior, because Palestinians have made themselves into perpetual victims that can never be challenged or questioned for the things they say and do.
theloveburts@reddit
Here's the problem. You're brainwashed by social media. You lost a plot a long time ago and anyone who presents you with facts is clearly just a liar. You love to use terms like genocide, blockade, Jewish ethnostate and open air prison without really understand what those words mean or who to apply them to. They sound cook and you get gratification from feeling like you're on the right side of the conflict and you know you are because everyone is telling that you are. Any anyone in your mind that says, "Hold up, there's more going on here" must love slaughtering children. I mean there can't possibly be another explanation, right?
I can combat ignorance with facts. I can't combat brainwashing with facts.
I doesn't really matter because I suspect that you are like that Canadian Trump lover who was a least game for listening to why he was a fascists. But when people took the time to walk her from point A to point B and proved it her, she just giggled and said "Well, I guess I'm a fascists" because she literally wasn't capable of changing her mind even once she knew all the facts or understanding the gravity of the situation.
AssignedGoonerPilled@reddit
If israel launches a nuke they better hope it kills everybody in the region because that is an escalation that has the ability to destroy them. People think you launch a nuke and thats it. Be so fucking serious.
theloveburts@reddit
I don't think that Israel wants a nuclear war. If it comes down to being destroyed they will take whoever is attacking them down with them.
Also, If Israel runs out of munitions, they'll resort to using what they've got left. Acting like one nuclear bomb will blow up the world or the whole middle east is pure ignorance.
A carefully place small nuclear warhead would end the conflict once and for all. Maybe one designed to take out Iran's nuclear capabilities, something to drive home the point that they can't win the war so then need to surrender. I can see that happening.
If Israel follows their history of warning civilians, there will be minimal civilian deaths. Many living there would consider that a tolerable tradeoff to be ride of their repressive government. Again, I'm certain this would be a last resort.
Also, please name all the countries you think are going to attack Israel for dropping a small yield nuclear warhead on Iran. I'd really like to know this piece since all those countries like Palestinians more than Iranians and haven't showed up to the fight in Gaza yet.
AssignedGoonerPilled@reddit
All the counties that will attack israel are the same counties that have been attacking deeper and deeper into israel everyday. They drone bombed Netanyahu house and if you saw the video the damn thing flew right past an apache and through the AA defenses. It doesn’t matter that they didn’t get him, it’s symbolic of what they have the capability to do. If israel launches a nuke then Hmas, The Houthis, insurgents in Iraq, Syria, HZB, Iran, and internal insurgents in the West Bank and Israel proper will open up everything they have. It will be pandemonium. If the nukes they have prepared (because they ain’t building a new bomb) is able to stop that then sure, everything will go swimmingly for israel. Possibility and plausibility are not the same. The White House will support israel to the last dollar but this is smoke even the Pentagon don’t want. Good luck to everyone involved. Reality is none of us know whats about to happen but lord its going to be crazy.
DannyBones00@reddit
The thing about it is that the THAAD battery, depending on how many launchers are in it, holds somewhere around 48 interceptor missiles at once.
When Iran is capable of flooding the zone with hundreds of weapons, it makes it kinda hard. You’ve got to factor in those intercepted by other systems (including SM-3 on USN ships in the Med,) those that are projected to go into unpopulated areas…
But still. If Iran was to launch an attack hours after an Israeli attack, especially if they coupled it with hundreds of subsonic cruise missiles, all those planes will have to be turned around to try to deal with those.
I guess the tldr is that a single THAAD battery isn’t much. We really need to double and triple down on our AA capabilities in general, which I hear is happening.
Ajenthavoc@reddit
Optimistic estimates have Iran inventories at several thousand rockets. They probably have way more. Even if they're only able to deploy half of what they have, 1000 ballistic rockets followed by hundreds or thousands of drones and subsonic missiles is not something Israel can defend against. Who knows how many Hezbollah, houthi, and Iraqi rockets will join the fray too. And from the looks of it Iran gave the offramp already by not targeting civilians on Oct 1st. This is all out war till the end when Israel responds, with a rapid escalation to nucs.
From my perspective this will not go well. Iran has highly fortified military industries deep under their mountains, they'll have the capacity to survive a lot more damage than Israel and the US who have all of their assets on surface level. Really, there's so much more for Israel to lose than anyone else, which is why I think this is arrogant on their behalf.
They have massively depleted missile stores already. 96 thaad missiles, two carrier strikes groups, and even 100 f16s and f35s won't be able to defend against this. And the US will not pull anything out of their Pacific fleet because that will open the door for China to act on Taiwan which will mean NK taking advantage of the moment to harass or even attack SK and now we have 4 fronts to this world war with 5.9 of the actors hovering their hand over the red button.
Literally on the brink of nuclear WW3
Tjgfish123@reddit
I have a feeling that Israel is going to launch a massive attack against military targets nation wide. Like their place is to take out Iran Military in one massive night of bombing.
forkproof2500@reddit
Well they didn't. They launched a minuscule attack on a handful Iranian targets, and asked nicely that Iran doesn't attack back.
Israel just blinked.
theloveburts@reddit
This is how they historically operate.
Remember Operation Focus in 1967 when Israel launched a massive airstrike that destroyed the majority of the Egyptian Air Force on the ground. They disabled a total of 18 airfields in Egypt.
Following Syrian and Jordanian attacks in retaliation, the Israeli Air Force proceeded to bomb air bases in those countries.
By noon the first day, Egyptian, Jordanian and Syrian Air Forces, totaling about 450 aircraft, were destroyed.
Ajenthavoc@reddit
Those attacks required less than a 500 mile round trip for Israeli bombers. We are talking about 1800-2000 mile round trip from Israel to Iran. Regional allies/proxies (using Walz's words) to Israel are claiming neutrality in this conflict and will not allow Israel to use their airbases, including Azerbaijan.
Two options left, either limited munitions carry from Israeli airforce bases which significantly slows down the rate and effectiveness of bombing, or the US provides air refueling support, which is at risk of targeting by the s300 and s400 systems Iran has. I don't know how unconditional our support is right now before an election, but I have a feeling our current govt will not risk our air-tankers in this retaliation they have been publicly against.
Iran has shown it has hypersonic missiles. These will arrive in Israel after 10-15 minutes from launch. It will take longer to land, refuel/reload, and take off for the Israeli war planes. If timed right, Iran will target these planes on their way back to cause some serious damage and take out critical Israeli capabilities. IMO this mitigation strategy is what's being planned for more than anything else; with the most important tool being enough additional fuel on board for the f35s to take off again immediately prior to the bombardment, hence even less munition delivery capacity.
This isn't the same conflict as 1967. very different time, battle field, and set of capabilities for both sides. Is Israel creative and do they have access to special tools?Absolutely. But they are a lot more arrogant with more right wing zealots in charge than they used to allow.
theloveburts@reddit
I'm pretty sure the US doesn't need to provide refueling support to Israel.
HornetgoSting-2657@reddit
Arrogant is the right word.
It speaks to an ulterior motive. Otherwise, the response would've been corrective only, not WW3 for everyone because America supported Bibi and his zionists.
And Bibi knows what he's doing. He's friends with Putin for Christ sake.
America needs to let them lie in their bed without any further support if that's how they want to play.
es_crow@reddit
Tiny-Praline-4555@reddit
https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-another-league-netanyahu-touts-friendship-with-putin-in-new-billboard/
HornetgoSting-2657@reddit
Whoooo thanks buddy.
This needs to be shouted from the rooftops!
Any economically minded individual can see the vested interests playing out here.
American weaponry support for Israel needs to cease, and the Knesset needs to take out their Putin-Trash just like the US does.
beflacktor@reddit
so thought the Houthis with there underground weapons stashes if I remember correctly up until..thursday was it?
Ajenthavoc@reddit
They literally just hit another UK built tanker yesterday. The bombing with the B2 was a show of force to Iran, but did nothing but expend a weapon and send a message. the US has acknowledged it knows little about what weapons stores and facilities exist in Yemen
The-Copilot@reddit
This is the understatement of the century.
The US hasn't used a B-2 in combat since January of 2017. Their use is a very strong and clear message following the placement of F-22s in Qatar and the reinforcing of troops numbers in the region.
It's also very likely that the B-2s dropped the new 30,000-pound Massive Ordnance Penetrator, which were specifically designed to destroy Iran's reinforced bunkers. Although Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin refused to confirm or deny whether they were used in the strike when he was asked by the press.
AssignedGoonerPilled@reddit
The Houthis are still sending drones to tel avjv. Bombing Sanaa did not stop the blockade and it is not stopping that. You people don’t know the conditions of the region.
EC_CO@reddit
I don't think they care, their end goal seems to be bringing about the second coming of Christ. hardcore Christian and Jewish groups have been working towards this goal for a long time
Spirited-Reputation6@reddit
Smoke and mirrors, man. Whatever you do don’t believe your eyes.
Canna_crumbs@reddit
I think they are going to hit a leader and want protection for their leaders.
snapdown36@reddit
I thought that the value of the THAAD for Israel is its detection system. It’s supposed to have a further range than their system and it can link up with their current air defense systems.
Lachryma-papaveris@reddit
There is risk in every military conflict and it’s high time someone addressed Iran before they get any more powerful. The truth is a conflict of some type is inescapable so rather than high from it, we should accept that and make the right choice, which is a difficult one
Ajenthavoc@reddit
That's a very neocon and neolib thought process. One which requires the US to maintain a unipolar world.
That's fine if that's the world view you subscribe to. It's one I subscribed to for a long time too. But it also falls under the umbrella of arrogance. At some point US hegemony will end, and fighting tooth and nail to maintain it will only erode any good will which is the key that will allow prosperity in a multipolar world.
Awkward_Ostrich_4275@reddit
He didn’t mention anything about the US. Israel is capable of taking care of the issue themselves and it’s obvious that’s what’s happening here. Isn’t that a step towards a multipolar world rather than another towards US hegemony?
Ajenthavoc@reddit
Israel would be long gone if it wasn't for the unconditional support the US gives it. There is no doubt about that. But even beyond that, they collect billions of US tax dollars. Use our weapons. Their Credit rating is tied to ours. And now they have 100 US soldiers on Israeli territory and a potential casus belli for US involvement in the likely event that some of these soldiers are injured or killed during a guaranteed Iranian response.
In terms of cost to the US citizens, Israel is up in the trillions. 150B+ in direct military support. Trillions in the war on terror which is rooted in the Palestinian problem. Unnecessary wars in Iraq which were fanned by false information stemming from Israeli intelligence and pushed by Netanyahu himself to congress in 2002. That money could have been invested domestically and the whole world would be better for it. Instead we now have a genocide. Literally the worst use of resources possible.
Not to mention the benefits an allied Arab and Persian world would have been to the US which was the direction things were going in the 50s and 60s prior to the Palestinian problem taking root in the revolutionary ideology of the Arab and Muslim world.
Iran has historically been a huge rival to Russia, they would have been a great ally to contain Russia back during the cold war and today. Instead now we have a contiguous block of 20% of the world land mass (all nuclear armed) allying against us, potentially signing defense agreements. And the US has almost zero good will left in the world as we unconditionally support this genocide.
ngyeunjally@reddit
US hegemony will end over the nuclear scarred corpse of our planet.
Ajenthavoc@reddit
That is the "over my dead body!" thought process of the neocon/libs.
ngyeunjally@reddit
It’s also the realists thought process.
ValeteAria@reddit
No it is not lol.
The Romans thought the same.
The British imperialists thought the same.
and so on and so forth.
The realist view is that it will end at some point. The arrogant point of view is to think otherwise.
It might not be in our lifetime. But it will happen. Nothing lasts forever.
ngyeunjally@reddit
Roman’s and British didn’t have nuclear arms. What an idiotic comparison.
ValeteAria@reddit
Yeah but they were ahead of other civilizations and still lost.
News flash, but the US isn't the only one with nuclear arms. Nor do nuclear arms mean that there won't be even deadlier weapons in the future.
The USSR had nuclear arms, they also collapsed. You live in a fantasy bubble if you think the US hegemony will last forever.
ngyeunjally@reddit
Lmao. The ussr was never close to the global hegemony. You’re making false comparisons hand over hand.
ValeteAria@reddit
Yeah they werent. But they were the most powerful entity after the US and they collapsed.
You're just being purposefully dense because you dont want to hear the truth.
ngyeunjally@reddit
Lmao. You’re being purposefully dense because you don’t want to hear the truth. The us will take the ball home with it if it leaves.
ValeteAria@reddit
No it wont. The Romans didnt. The British didn't. The US wont be an exception. They are not unique to every other civilization on earth.
ngyeunjally@reddit
Didn’t because they couldn’t! You are willfully ignoring that fact, Lmao. If the Roman Empire had had nukes in a nuclear armed world on 29 may 1453 you and I would not be having this conversation
ValeteAria@reddit
Again. You seem purposefully dense, those civilizations all had an edge over their competitors. Most of these civilizations didnt end because another group ended them. They imploded. So will the US.
The US is not the only one with nuclear weapons.
ngyeunjally@reddit
Exactly. The us isn’t the only one with nuclear weapons. That’s why it’s world ending and not world outside of the us ending. Do you not understand what mutually assured destruction is? It’s the doctrine that’s kept us in the most peaceful era of human history.
ValeteAria@reddit
Again. Those other civilizations didnt end because of some doomsday weapon. They imploded.
The same is happening to the US. The US's hegemony is not going to end because the US gets destroyed. It's because it will implode from within.
Just look at the state of diplomacy. The US has lost so much face because of Israel. Do you think it will stop there? That other countries arent looking? That they will take the US on their word from now on?
This is just the beginning of the end. Like I said, no civilization continues forever and the US their rule based order is no different.
ngyeunjally@reddit
Rome was conquered by the ottomans. Literally sieged down by new and impressive bombards the Turks brought from the orient. It was literally brought down by a new (to them) weapon.
Lmao. The same thing is not at all happening to the us. Washington DC is not under siege by the Turks.
Lmao. The us has gained face because of Israel. That’s our little dude out there kicking ass and taking names. We’re proud of and encouraging it.
ValeteAria@reddit
Rome had already fallen before the Ottamans conquered them. Corruption and division inside the empire is what ended up killing them.
Go look at the elections. Is there a division? What do you think will happen if Trump wins?
No. Literally no country on this planet other than the US and its allies supports Israel and even their own allies is starting to turn their back against Israel.
So how did this gain you face exactly? Hatred for Israel has only increased. There are literally like 5 countries that vote no, on any resolution concerning Israel lol.
ngyeunjally@reddit
That’s a take I’ve seen from no historical sources. Constantinople though weakened by the Latin crusade was still a predominant force in the region. You seem very poorly informed about the Roman Empire. You eeek to be confusing the fall of Rome the city to the goths and the fall of Rome the empire to the Turks.
Yes elections happening is bad somehow? Nothing happened last time trump won. I doubt it’ll be any different this time if he does.
India is not a us ally and is very pro Israel, Argentina as well. Countries that aren’t us allies don’t matter very much. Who cares what Africa thinks if they can’t project power?
ValeteAria@reddit
Literally look it up lol. Its the one thing they mostly agree on.
Division within the US has never been this big.
"Who cares what the biggest continent on the planet thinks." But then goes to name Argentina a country who is doing worse than a plethora of African nations.
India is the exception and about the only one. Its not just Africa. Almost all of Latin America, other than Argentina and Paraguay. All of Africa. Almost all of Asia, hell even Japan is starting to change its tune about Israel. Europe is a mixed bag, with most countries being either against Israel or indifferent.
So literally other than extremely tight US allies, who supports Israel?
Its hard to justify killing so many kids after all.
ngyeunjally@reddit
No. It’s not. I’ve never seen that take in my life. You’re wrong. Lmao you look it up.
ValeteAria@reddit
"Look it up."
Solid defense.
ngyeunjally@reddit
That was your defense.
ValeteAria@reddit
I have no problem giving you sources, but yeah looking up "how did the Roman empire fall" is not particularly difficult. Yeah its not hard lol.
I also love how you ignored all the other points.
ngyeunjally@reddit
Still no proof. Lmao.
alvvays_on@reddit
I agree.
At some point I do expect the USA to put their own interests first.
The US spent trillions in Iraq and Afghanistan and got nothing to show for it.
It really isn't in their interest to have a war with Iran.
Robot_Embryo@reddit
But Israel will drag them into a war because Mossad has dirt and leverage on almost every American politician.
That's why Netanyahu can come to the US, address congress, brag about his genocide, and everyone springs to their feet in standing ovation every time he finishes a paragraph.
1Squid-Pro-Crow@reddit
Not everyone.
"Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu, who will be addressing Congress this week, arrived in the U.S. today. Neither Biden nor Harris were there to greet him," Republican Senator Marsha Blackburn said on X (formerly Twitter). "This administration has made it perfectly clear — they do not support the Jewish state.""
Robot_Embryo@reddit
"Perfectly clear", in the tune of 17.9 billion dollars in military aid in the past 12 months alone.
LoveAndLight1994@reddit
Even Kamala?
alvvays_on@reddit
I agree.
It always surprises me how so many Americans know about Epstein, but they never ask why and for what purpose.
ValeteAria@reddit
Except the thing is they didnt have to invade Iraq. They did that on their own based on false premises.
Afghanistan while slightly more justified was also unnecessary and mainly out of vengeance.
You make it sound like the US just poured in trillions out of goodwill. If they didnt invade they wouldnt have to pour any of that money into those countries.
Those countries were shit before the US invaded dont get me wrong. But they are like 10x worse now and unanimously hate the US. On top of it giving a lot of people worldwide ammunition to hate the US.
diaryofsnow@reddit
I seem to remember the hijackers being Saudi - better go invade Afghanistan for 13 years and then run away!
mfchitownthrowaway@reddit
The US did kill plenty of high ranking taliban officials in Afghanistans as well as killed Bin Laden out there. So it’s not as if invading Afghanistan had ZERO purpose. They were harboring enemies of ours the entire time as was proven by the Bin Laden raid.
Surprisetrextoy@reddit
Bin Laden was in Pakistan
mfchitownthrowaway@reddit
You’re right I misspoke. That’s my bad.
Ajenthavoc@reddit
I wish that was the case, but it's clear that the State Dept policy is to support Israel no matter what and to take advantage of this opportunity to "reshape" the middle east.
WebAccomplished9428@reddit
The policy is that our finance capital is going down the fucking drain and our military industrial complex is the only thing keeping this shitty boat from sinking.
We need blood sacrifices to oil the machine. More land to grab. More oil under Gaza.
ilikehouses@reddit
Comments like this are why I love this sub so much.
AssignedGoonerPilled@reddit
“We” who is “we”. Are you suiting up? Of course not. And that is the problem with The West. Confident about wars you would never fight.
Lachryma-papaveris@reddit
I would love a diplomatic resolution. I just am not sure that I see one happening anytime soon and we can’t allow people to consolidate power and wait for them to move in a malicious way against the rest of the Democratic world so you tell me the resolution I would love one that doesn’t involve any type of military action, I just don’t see it
AssignedGoonerPilled@reddit
There will be no diplomatic solution. They assassinated those guys a while ago. It’s total war.
Rude_Worldliness_423@reddit
‘Massive damage’
Like killing some ants on the ground?
WebAccomplished9428@reddit
Ignorant people like you make me laugh. You'll get your medicine just like the last time.
Always wanna joke up until the moment shit hits the fan. I bet you laughed right before Iran blanketed Israel's military sites with confirmed hits. I'm sure you must believe they only hit one site like Israel said though, right?
Rude_Worldliness_423@reddit
Bookmarked as to laugh at your ass in two weeks
WebAccomplished9428@reddit
!RemindMe 2 weeks "remind this idiot that Israel's anti-air capabilities are shit and they can't even afford to fully stock their iron dome at $50,000 a rocket. Also laugh when Israel either nukes Iran and gets themselves nuked by the rest of the world, or just get fucking wrecked by rocket barrage AGAIN"
Rude_Worldliness_423@reddit
🫢
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Johnny-Unitas@reddit
Do you think it will lead to boots on the ground or bombing and rockets forever?
theloveburts@reddit
I think the US has discovered that most voters don't really want us to have boots on the ground. They've also learned the advantages of fighting proxy wars.
By arming the Ukraine, the Ukrainian army have given Putin a run for his money.
By arming Israel for a war with Iran, we're able to strike out at our longstanding enemy indirectly. Since most other countries in the ME dislike Iran because they're Persian and a pain in the ass, it looks like they might sit this one out.
The US would be foolish to stop funding either of these wars. How convenient it is that each political party favors continuing support for one of the two conflicts.
It makes me pretty confident that the US will only get directly involved with substantial numbers of US military personnel involved if the US military industrial complex wants the kind of feedback on weapons that only US soldiers can provide. The generals like to play with their own toys and run battle plans in real time occasionally.
Here's where it get's sticky. China is ramping up the situation with Taiwan. And North Korea has apparently been sending soldiers to fight along side Russians in the Ukraine. Feels like WWIII heating up to me.
emseefely@reddit
The only way I can see a majority support of any direct US involvement is if we were attacked like Pearl Harbor or 9/11.
Laffingglassop@reddit
which can be easily set up/ allowed to happen
theloveburts@reddit
That's the only way they'd get my support.
revolution_is_just@reddit
Or Israels over the horizon radar actually got hit in last attack as Iran claims and it needs two thaad to replace those.
Ajenthavoc@reddit
THAAD has been deployed already and Hezbollah rockets are still penetrating. I'm guessing they're aiming it east and are asking for another THAAD to aim the radar north.
revolution_is_just@reddit
I don't think thaad is meant for Hezbollah rockets. Hezbollah rockets are like 5-10k, and thaad interceptor cost like 13 million.
Poorbilly_Deaminase@reddit
You’re correct, THAAD is for Iranian ballistic missiles. Iron dome is for dumb rockets like the Hamas and Hezbollah katyushka.
Hope1995x@reddit
MIRVs put 10 warheads on one missile and release them before it can be intercepted. Also, MaRV warheads and use missiles that don't follow conventonal flight patterns to confuse THADD.
waterbird_@reddit
Curious what you think will happen, when they’ve said they won’t hit nuclear or oil sites? I was under the impression that they were asking for more defensive weapons because iron dome was running low on interceptors.
Joshistotle@reddit (OP)
That's actually what the oligarchs in the US have wanted for decades, a complete balkanization of Iran and the placement of their oil under compliant puppets or fiefdoms, along with the setup of a compliant central banking system.
kuta300@reddit
Israel the right to OBLITERATE IRAN.
esalman@reddit
At this point only a Trump presidency can prevent an all out escalation in the eastern hemisphere.
ngyeunjally@reddit
Is escalation a bad thing? If escalation can prevent a nuclear armed Iran that’s probably good for overall long term global stability.
letmetuckyouinanon@reddit
You realise what escalation is right?
ngyeunjally@reddit
Yes. In this case I’d like for it to be a coalition invasion of Iran. US, uk, and israel would have an American flag flying over Tehran in three weeks.
letmetuckyouinanon@reddit
Okay how did that end last time? Exactly what do you think will happen in the long run?
ngyeunjally@reddit
Which last time? Countries get invaded all the time.
letmetuckyouinanon@reddit
Iraq, Afghanistan.
Not on this scale no. How exactly is putting a flag over tehran gonna solve anything?
Are we gonna sit there for a bit or just leave right after? Are we gonna just come in and dismantle their "nuclear" operation? What then? We skidaddle and the world is back to normal?
ngyeunjally@reddit
Iraq and Afghanistan went fine. Total US casualties were low. It made a lot of money through the military industrial complex, ensured the petro dollar, etc. us war goals were achieved in Iraq and were partially achieved in Afghanistan.
Unlike the Iraqis and people of Afghanistan I think the Iranian people will actually take very quickly to a European style parliamentary republic. Once the regime isn’t threatening apostates with the death penalty most Iranians will cast of the shackles of oppressive regressive religion.
letmetuckyouinanon@reddit
I think you have an extremely naive and skewed view on reality not gonna lie. You really dont understand just on a grand scale what all of this entails.
ngyeunjally@reddit
Lmao. And you have some esoteric knowledge that can’t be shared of course.
letmetuckyouinanon@reddit
No not really. If you just go watch some history videos or read a little on the wars that occured and how it generally impacted people there, the people invading, and what it really solved for some greater good of everyone, you'd realize your stance is a bit dumb.
Theres a reason why historians say history rhymes often times. The military industrial complex making money isnt the dub you think it is. Its such a backwards barbaric thinking.
ngyeunjally@reddit
Lmao but you can’t share the knowledge it’s just out there. Translation it was bad because you think it was bad.
letmetuckyouinanon@reddit
You needed to translate that? Yes I do think its bad. Thats probably the most nuanced thing Ive read from you. For someone who so readily seems to be at their device its odd how looking things up is difficult.
Id tutor you but youll have to pay me.
ngyeunjally@reddit
Lmao. Im hearing a lot of talking I’m not hearing an argument. You can cry about it but it didn’t go poorly.
letmetuckyouinanon@reddit
I think crying is too much of an esoteric emotion for you to understand.
ngyeunjally@reddit
And now you’re upset because you can’t formulate your own arguments. You read war bad enough online and reached your zenith of understanding
letmetuckyouinanon@reddit
Yes
ngyeunjally@reddit
You don’t need to confirm it lmao.
letmetuckyouinanon@reddit
Womp womp
ngyeunjally@reddit
🇨🇨
Sufficient-Road4467@reddit
Potential bloodbath. Iran is a much larger, mountainous country with zealous followers. You'd logically need at some conscription of 18-26 year old men in the US to raise a force large enough to Iraq-it and keep a US friendly regime in power.
ngyeunjally@reddit
Lmao. Zealous followed is laughable. Iran can barely keep power within.
Sufficient-Road4467@reddit
Oh yeah. Totally. Have you served? If you think it's going to be a 3 week adventure you should drop into Tehran with the 82nd.
ngyeunjally@reddit
Currently with the 101st.
Sufficient-Road4467@reddit
*Air assault in, I guess.
ngyeunjally@reddit
That’s what the hope is on the ground right now.
Awesome_hospital@reddit
Lol
Rude_Worldliness_423@reddit
https://i.redd.it/r0sx3yiksnvd1.gif
jrgkgb@reddit
Um, no.
Regardless of who wins the election once it’s off the table expect the US and Israel to take out the trash in the Middle East between November and January when the new president is sworn in/overthrows the Republic.
--Muther--@reddit
How popular is the support of this war with the American public? How does it rank against Ukraine?
jrgkgb@reddit
It’s hard to tell, honestly.
American polling is being heavily manipulated. I can show you polls that show diametrically opposite responses.
My gut though?
After Afghanistan, Americans don’t want US forces on the ground anywhere but other than some really loud and poorly informed college kids they frankly don’t care all that much what other countries do to each other.
BlackPanthro4Lyfe@reddit
I have no idea how anyone can have this read.
Anecdotal, sure, if only because I don’t have the the financial and infrastructural resources of either Reuters or Ipsos but the consensus of avoiding a costly middle eastern war extends FAR BEYOND “loud and poorly informed” (also disagree) college kids.
Even before Oct 7th, when Trump had abolished the IND, polling showed that 53% of US adults strongly opposed direct US military action with Iran: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-iran-poll/americans-increasingly-critical-of-trumps-record-on-iran-most-expect-war-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKBN1Z62KF/
Mainly due to sheer financial burden everyday Americans will have to shoulder as Iran has sworn to not only attack American bases in the region but make sure no refined oil makes it though either shipping routes to the west. Not to mention took the mortal demand a WWIII-level conflict like this demands.
I have no idea what circles you run in but check-in with your local grocery stores, the significant uptick in resources for recruitment , the already ballooning cost of everyday products due to longer shipping routes/unavailability (yes, greedflation plays a factor but there’s no denying we’re already paying for Israel’s impunity), and it’s obvious that, even if only through a financial lens, a large bloc of Americans (significantly more than would usually be concerned with foreign policy) are well aware of current developments.
--Muther--@reddit
Yeah it hard to read from abroad at the moment.
My feeling is only a minority of the public support what is happening while openly the majority of governments in the EU and US support it openly.
I travel constantly for work globally, the topic comes up occasionally and I haven't heard any pro-israeli take on it. Regarding the Ukraine war it was commonly pro-Ukraine and now I think apathy has set in, but not a willingness to stop helping.
jrgkgb@reddit
Well, I’m in America. It’s hard to read here too.
The attitude towards Ukraine is still pro Ukraine minus the dumb right wingers who are pretty obviously on Putin’s payroll.
Israel is tougher to gauge. Anyone alive during 9/11 isn’t shedding tears for these terrorists getting smoked though.
Robot_Embryo@reddit
Alive for 9/11. I've seen dozens of videos of children getting shot, blown up, burning to death. Refugee tents getting bombed. It's digusting.
theloveburts@reddit
What's disgusting is people who can't even spell disgusting they they've got it all figured out when they literally can't wrap their head around the nature of the conflict.
You should be saying, "Gee those terrorists who started a brutal war and started hiding amongst the civilian population are getting creamed and taking a lot of innocent civilians with them. Isn't it disgusting how they're using innocent people for human shields and getting innocent people killed."
OkOne8274@reddit
Immoral actions on one side don't provide infinite leeway to the other side.
The whole of the Israeli-Middle East conflict is also about more than just terrorism.
Robot_Embryo@reddit
What a beautiful parrot!
Can it learn new phrases too, or does it only repeat Zionist propaganda?
theloveburts@reddit
If I'm just a parrot, point out the lie.
Robot_Embryo@reddit
No thanks, I gave up arguing with belligerently misinformed people during Covid.
You can educate yourself, but I'm not going to spend time breaking everything down for you so you can just dismiss it all with some other ignorant talking point.
https://youtu.be/dP0-YohJR-g
https://youtu.be/elQGTyqx2x8
theloveburts@reddit
You really are precious. And incredibly misinformed. But after reviewing your link I can see why.
Your first link is from The Occupation of the American Mind with videos like "Exploiting Antisemitism Part I AND II", videos from Palestinians giving their own contorted view of the historical conflict with Israel.
And hilariously, your 2nd link is for GDF. An YouTube channel with loads videos with such amazing titles like "How Iraqis Got so Good at Smoking American Soldiers", "How Israel Chucked the United States" and my personal favorite "How Peeing Like This Could Get You Killed in a Drone Strike". Please tell me you aren't this ignorant.
1Squid-Pro-Crow@reddit
Exactly this.
iclammedadugger@reddit
Why are you getting downvoted. I spent time volunteering in Ukraine and now back here. This is an accurate take.
Big-Professional-187@reddit
As a Canadian I don't think the US can go at war and neither can Canada really. We're more like the war police. If someone wants to screw up the world we respond like if you would calling 911.
rh130@reddit
I’m in my 30s and I don’t know anyone who wants any of this. Everyone is more worried about the rising costs of everything here and wages not keeping up.
Varro35@reddit
Haha most don’t even follow current events, they literally have no idea what is happened AND don’t care
chi_city_@reddit
Sad truth
1Squid-Pro-Crow@reddit
Sick and fucking tired of my tax money killing for others.
XXFFTT@reddit
I think Ukraine should be supported and if we could go back in time we should do so to give Ukraine much more support from the start.
While we're back in time I'd like to see a complete reversal on our support for Israel (what our military leaders wanted).
We should have cut off all support and invaded when Israel stole the material for their first nuclear weapons from the US.
In my eyes, that makes them an enemy.
If we cut off or slow support to Ukraine after the country builds nukes (and they should) then I don't think I'll ever be able to be proud of my country again.
If we get a regime change in Iran (at the very least) then I guess the $100b+ we've invested in Israel gave us some benefit but the US kinda created the situation we're in.
imtourist@reddit
Israel already had the upper hand and had wiped out Hamas in Gaza weeks ago and also destroyed lives of hundreds of thousands of people already, for Netenayhu this is not enough and they want to keep the war going for as long as the US will fund it. The war is there because it is of his making.
Ukraine on the other hand is a different story since they were invaded by Russia for no reason other than Putin's ambitions. The ramifications of Putin winning are far greater than if Israel isn't allowed to keep pushing its war in the middle east. The US should tell Israel to pound sand.
XXFFTT@reddit
Imagine if a bunch of people illegally immigrated into the US and wanted recognition as a sovereign nation from the UN.
We should have been telling them what to shove and where to shove it for a long time now.
Obvious_Key7937@reddit
Vast majority of rural Americans care about the cost of groceries and the illegals being dumped in their communities, not foreign wars. How this plays out will be shaped in 3 weeks post the presidential election.
MrBrawn@reddit
Nuanced discourse is dead here so we don't talk about it much as it usually leads to bullshit talking points where people get labeled Nazis or terrorists. As of now, it doesn't impact our lives so we don't care more than just posting on facebook. Unless a full war sparks out where we send full-scale boots on the ground we seem to be complacent in stoking the fire as general policy as we have been since WW2.
ngyeunjally@reddit
Based on my experiences on the ground with a wide variety of people traveling to every contiguous state for work. Your average American doesn’t care one way or the other. Most probably forget day to day there are wars going on.
TacticalButtPlug_l-D@reddit
America has the opportunity to do the funniest thing.
KnockuBlockuTowa@reddit
Send that airmail message to Tehran, may Islam burn
danm1980@reddit
Your third "israel" post in two weeks on this sub. Someone is obsessed...
1Squid-Pro-Crow@reddit
Fucking no.
We don't have the money. We don't GAF about Netanyahoooo's bloodlust. We don't want to be part of setting off ww3
Flintstones_VRV_Fan@reddit
Maybe they should just fuck off instead.
forkproof2500@reddit
Omg you don't want half your taxes going to defend an ethnostate that actively hates everyone else on the planet?
Sounds a bit antisemitic to me
dockemphasis@reddit
The Jews were the real Nazis the whole time…
Flintstones_VRV_Fan@reddit
No. The Jews have suffered a great amount of persecution. But Israel is not “the Jews”, no matter how much they try to equate the two.
audiodelic@reddit
It's kinda weird how it's literally never the Jews, though...like, even when they literally set up an occupied territory in a foreign land that they claim to be the home base for all Jews, just because they claim it was theirs "before," so much so that any person who shares their ethnic "purity" is given a free trip there as a birthrite, and any Jewish sex offender or pedophile in the world is welcome to flee there without extradition or prosecution.
They infiltrate every major level of U.S. government, highly disproportionate to their 2% population within said country, to write themselves blank checks for generations from our central bank (which they also started and control), bribe and blackmail the politicians they can't bully, plan and orchestrate terrorist attacks on their "greatest ally's" soil, drag their "greatest ally" into multiple wars of futility, among many other things...but, again, it's NEVER their fault.
In contrast, when a couple of black kids rob a 7/11 in Chicago, it means all black people are violent animals who should be re-segregated, imprisoned, or ethnically cleansed. It's really quite a distinction.
veggie151@reddit
I like that idea, they should give it a shot
dreydin@reddit
Huzzah
kuta300@reddit
Anti semitism has no place on reddit.
yaykaboom@reddit
Forgot your /s there buddy
Natural_Treat_1437@reddit
Ukraine 🇺🇦 should have them. Send them to Ukraine 🇺🇦 instead.
Just_Alfalfa_7944@reddit
cut the cord, washington
Zestyclose_Emu_1942@reddit
Why strike Iran?
China is the greatest threat we've ever seem.
Time to go after Xi and his inner circle then the remainder and start a revolution there.
btlook11@reddit
Make Iran a parking lot, things will get better over time. Time to take the leash off.
coriolisagency@reddit
Time to whack the Ayatollah and everyone that reports to him
BlatantFalsehood@reddit
No.
kuta300@reddit
Israel will win and peace will be upon MidEast. God willing
SpaceyEngineer@reddit
How will they win and preserve peace? Please elaborate on this dream scenario
kuta300@reddit
Saudi Arabia will get nukes if Iran does. Then UAE. Then Turkey and then Jordan.
Joshistotle@reddit (OP)
What does a win for you guys look like exactly? Give us a description of what Palestine, Lebanon, Yemen, Syria, and Iran will look like after you win?
Rude_Worldliness_423@reddit
The Islamic Republic of Iran falling
Joshistotle@reddit (OP)
Answer the full question
Toredorm@reddit
Well, for either side to win, they have to wipe out the other completely. So.... either way, we are looking at inevitable genocide.
Rude_Worldliness_423@reddit
Muppet. Then all wars which are won would end in a genocide. This is obviously untrue.
ngyeunjally@reddit
An Israeli American coalition would dethrone the current regime in 21 days. The Iranian people are not so bought into their government they’ll pretty quickly adopt democracy I think.
SpaceyEngineer@reddit
Only one way this feasibly becomes genocide
kuta300@reddit
Oh stop your whining. Jesus Christ.
EyeUvTheTigerr@reddit
Peace is always temporary, no such thing as permanent peace
ngyeunjally@reddit
Death.
AnbuGuardian@reddit
Hmmm some guy on the internet that calls on UFOs and they show up on demand said the final atomic bomb would hit Israel. Yeah ima go with the guy that talks to time traversing UFOs. He also called this conflict too. #PseudoIntel but maybe remind me in….
kuta300@reddit
Put down the crack pipe and go to bed
whosblikwhatblik@reddit
lol