ATF Form 4473 Middle Name Question
Posted by AssistBorn1128@reddit | Firearms | View on Reddit | 32 comments
I purchased a gun today and had an issue with my middle name. It is not on my license. I put my middle name on form 4473 and was told that I couldn't have the gun until I brought in my birth certificate or social security card with my middle name. We argued a bit and I told him I didn't want to lie on a federal form. He told me I should have just left it blank and that it's just for their records. Did he tell me to lie on a federal form or does it not matter?
linkuphost@reddit
I joined this Forum to add what I know. I attended a NSSF conference a few years ago. They were explaining common problems with completing the 4473. They made a point of saying "middle name" needed to be put on the form if you had a middle name, AND, the middle name was required on your ID. If you DL or whatever ID you were using didn't contain the middle name (blank or initial), then another form of ID would be required with the middle name on it, i.e. birth certificate, SS card, etc.
The problem I run into is this was never told to us by the ATF. I have had customers come in who have used their incomplete ID at other shops that accepted it out of ignorance. When I insist on a supplemental (complete)ID they freak out. If you do a search on this topic, you will find many discussion threads discussing this very topic. It would behoove the ATF to send information to ALL FFL's so they all know the new rule and abide by it. I don't like looking like the bad guy because I insist on property ID.
I had an ATF auditor here and he was wondering why some of the forms had a supplemental ID. He did not even know about the ATF rule.
Unicorn187@reddit
You have to put your full legal name. You should have it on your license or ID too. It doesn't matter if you use it or not, it's your legal name.
AssistBorn1128@reddit (OP)
When I get my license renewed, I'm adding my middle name. It isn't required where I am and I thought it didn't matter. Lol, I did not see this coming
Hot-Win2571@reddit
Whatever the legal requirements, there is a practical reason to supply your middle name.
The name which you provide is used to search whether anyone with that name is prohibited from buying a weapon. If you don't provide a middle name, you're more likely to be matched with a criminal with the same name. Further investigation might confirm that you're not that person, but that may slow down your approval.
Shazam42@reddit
Sorry for the necro. This makes no sense. If you fill out the form with your social security number, it makes it unique. I'm having the same issue as OP and they're hiding behind "ATF" excuses.
AssistBorn1128@reddit (OP)
Thanks, I didn't even think of tgat
Glittering-Wear-3740@reddit
Hi I accidentally put my first name and middle name opposite one a form and the gun shop just cancel the order. I even not processed through the background check step yet. Does this will leave any flag or thing that I need to worry about. Thank you for help
AssistBorn1128@reddit (OP)
I did something similar, but it was sent and accepted by the FBI. The manager had to call the FBI to cancel the transaction. Everything was fine except that 3 employees got lectured for missing it. Yours should be fine, it didn't go as far as mine and mine was fine.
Glittering-Wear-3740@reddit
May I ask after it you can go buy a firearm as normal
Glittering-Wear-3740@reddit
Thank u so much
Mil_contractor@reddit
Actually, in states that do not require a middle name or do not allow a middle name on your license, they’re the ones that are breaking the law not you! I get common name delays all the time. My middle name would be a great way around that, the only problem is it does not match with my license so I end up with a 24 hour to 48 hour delay For common name confusion lol. You can’t make this kind of screwball shit up! The computer also times out the screen at the 14 minute mark so if you were using a busy stores computer system to fill out the form, don’t let them set it on the shelf and close the lid and come back 20 minutes later! You will be delayed based off of common name. If your middle name is not on your license, do not put it on the form! I live in Ohio, if you have a CHL, there is another way they can do a sale with you. You fill out the ATF paper form, a state NCIC background check through the FBI is done, if nothing comes back from the state they just file the paperwork with the ATF within the month. Moral of the story it comes down to the state you live in, the store you’re purchasing from, and any loopholes created by the state. So do your homework on local gun stores? Usually, the small guy is the best although they may not have the best prices. Use only your name as it appears on your official ID or get a passport that has your middle name on it and use that for your ID. I only have troubles with delays at one store Vances because they do not do the simple CHL background check and they left the laptops time out. So I only purchased from them when it’s an item I’ve wanted for a while and is on sale at a price that may not ever be seen again. They are the largest retailer in Ohio of firearms and related items so of course they do everything the hard way, so be prepared if you go there!
No-Notice565@reddit
its not even appropriate to leave the middle name box blank. Its clearly printed directly above the box "If no middle initial or name, record “NMN”."
DamnOldMan@reddit
If you have just an initial for a middle name, which is common in my family, you also need to put "IO"
No-Notice565@reddit
Correct, just as the form says. Which is why its never appropriate to leave it blank
AssistBorn1128@reddit (OP)
This place actually doesn't say to NMN. I've only bought guns from 3 places. This was where I got my 1st gun, so I didn't know or question anything. The other places did force you to put NMN if you left it blank.
No-Notice565@reddit
Form 4473 is a standard form created by the ATF. Its printed on the form itself. Regardless of what each dealer tells your verbally. The form is the same.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4473-part-1-firearms-transaction-record-over-counter-atf-form-53009/download
Beebjank@reddit
When I was 18 and I bought my first gun, I was so excited that I forgot how to spell my own middle name.
AssistBorn1128@reddit (OP)
Lol, that's understandable
minusmartin@reddit
Always just copy exactly what is on your license to avoid these things.
I never use my middle name on anything, but I did when I got my license so now I do that and have never had an issue.
Al-Czervik-Guns@reddit
This is terrible advice and incorrect. You must use your full legal name on the 4473. It’s a federal felony to intentionally put false info on the 4473. Think Hunter Biden. Read the paragraph above where you sign your name.
NUTBAG6969@reddit
You were right not to lie on the 4473, and it was ridiculous/wrong for the FFL to say you should have just left the middle name box blank. It’s a federal crime to intentionally put wrong or incomplete information on a 4473, and your middle name is needed for a proper background check.
The FFL is required to verify your identity and current residence with a government issued photo ID prior to doing the background check. If you have recently moved, or your full legal name isn’t on your ID, the FFL can use additional “government issued documents” to meet the verification requirements.
AssistBorn1128@reddit (OP)
Thanks, I understand verifying it with my birth certificate. The issue I had was omitting it. When I renew my license, I'm definitely adding my middle name.
SniperSRSRecon@reddit
you can also use car registration too, a lot of people don't know that.
Nyancide@reddit
you can also maybe bring in a title for vehicle, if you had that in the car
VegasOldPerv@reddit
Go to an FFL with at least 2 brain cells.
You lied on a state form when you got a drivers license, why does a "federal" form make that big of a difference to you?
AssistBorn1128@reddit (OP)
It isn't required on a driverse license, at least in my state. But if I leave it out on form 4473, I have to answer that I have no middle name.
VegasOldPerv@reddit
Every state I've lived in requires your full legal name.
wildraft1@reddit
Guess you haven't lived in OP's state then, huh?
Username7239@reddit
I've lived in MA and for my entire life not everybody has their whole legal name on their ID. This started becoming a requirement/the norm in the past 5 or so years.
I sell guns in MA and it's a frequent thing that gets some people worked up. Our Licenses To Carry don't even have our full legal name every time.
ryukasagi@reddit
I work at an FFL, our general rule is that if you provide more info on your 4473 than hour id, that's fine, less info would need a correction
DonutLord88@reddit
Yes it matters. Most states you present your birth certificate to get a real ID but can in some opt for middle initial or none on the ID. You are asked for your full legal name on a 4473. Most FFLs will let you use any government issued document as a supplement for address or middle name. Always put your full legal name on these.
DickMonkeys@reddit
Your FFL is stupid.