Looks like we have a new trend of high revving(9000rpm+) turbocharged engines in supercars

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lique_madique@reddit

I don’t see why the hybrid system would have any effect on the engines redline.

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nukleabomb@reddit

It would help in low down torque, so that the engine can be tuned for higher rpms i guess?

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Well op said that those cars he listed are supplemented with hybrid systems so it’s surprising to them that it revs so high. I’m just a mechanical engineer who doesn’t work in automotive, but when ev engines rev to 13000+, why would they effect the ice engines ability to rev highly is my question?

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Montjo17@reddit

They enable the engines to be tuned to make power at higher revs without having a torque hole at low rpm. Aggressive cam profiles and large turbos make more power at high revs, but impact low end torque. Race cars have done so for decades, but for a road car where the driver expects performance across the rev range it's problematic. With the advent of hybridization, the 'missing' torque low down can be filled in to give a smooth power curve from low revs onwards, and reach very big peak power numbers.

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cofango@reddit (OP)

https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/1g5r5aw/comment/lsd5lsp

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cofango@reddit (OP)

Not a direct effect perse but more like making a high redline unnecessary. Turbocharged engines generally don't rev as high because they make much more power earlier. Add in an electric motor which delivers instant torque at 0 rpm and it becomes even less necessary to rev that high.

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lowstrife@reddit

turbocharged engines generally don't rev as high because they make much more power earlier(more air, more power)

That's a tuning choice, not one inherit to turbocharging itself.

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BigCountry76@reddit

Turbo engines don't inherently make power earlier, that's just a decision made for street cars because it makes sense for the use case. Turbo engines are perfectly capable of revving high and making tons of power where the application makes sense such as racing. But this sucks for road driving because of crazy lag and high boost threshold.

With the addition of hybrid motors it makes the high revving turbo drivable on the road so you get the best of both worlds. hybrid motors make low rpm drivable and big turbos make the top end power exciting.

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NarcoticCow@reddit

I think op means these cars were hybridized for emissions regulations and high revving cars (I think) usually have worse emissions, so it’s weird to combine both

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andrewjaekim@reddit

One of the biggest things race car drivers and road car drivers alike want is drive ability. It’s very hard for a turbo to be effective across a wide rev range.

For street, turbos tend to be small to encourage fast spool times and to build boost and torque early but you’ll often find turbocharged cars to “lose breath” as engines climb to redline.

A solution to this is to torque fill using the electric motors at low rpm. Then you can put fatter turbos that can ingest a shit ton of air at higher RPM.

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lique_madique@reddit

Oh I’m aware. My comment was in reply to the OP saying he’s surprised cars can redline because they are hybrid. I personally like that hybrids can help increase effective redline

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andrewjaekim@reddit

One of the biggest things race car drivers and road car drivers alike want is drive ability. It’s very hard for a turbo to be effective across a wide rev range.

For street, turbos tend to be small to encourage fast spool times and to build boost and torque early but you’ll often find turbocharged cars to “lose breath” as engines climb to redline.

A solution to this is to torque fill using the electric motors at low rpm. Then you can put fatter turbos that can ingest a shit ton of air at higher RPM.

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EmergencyRace7158@reddit

I think it has a material impact. Tuning turbocharged engines for street use is a trade off between the need to minimize lag and maximize power at the top end. Non hybrid road car turbo engines are tuned to boost at very low rpms with small turbos and/or variable geometry turbines. These max out at higher rpms because theres only so much volume they can run. We have always done high rpm turbo engines in motorsports because lag isn’t a big deal when you are always on boost and can use a bigger turbo to handle the high rpm exhaust pressures. The hybrid lets you torque fill the lag at low rpm and use a bigger turbo to go on boost at high rpms. No more trade offs.

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EnvChem89@reddit

Racing engines have been like this for a long time. Only problem is they suck at low rpm and in a race they never go thatblow so its not a problem. If tour on the street you have stop lights and signs. The electric motors will make the car drive able on the street.

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Bigdongergigachad@reddit

Probably an average emissions thing?

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alexseiji@reddit

Now give us some high revving engines for us poors. we want it too dammit

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gropingpriest@reddit

ND2 miata with the 7500 or the 2018+ Mustang GTs with a 7400(?) redline are the closest we can get I think. unless you buy an older car anyway

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Redbulldildo@reddit

Not currently, but the Mustang GT350 went to 8200. That's hardly a car for the poors though.

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newtonreddits@reddit

E9x M3/E60 M5 and S2K are probably the cheapest ways to enter the 8000-9000 club.

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Redbulldildo@reddit

Or just bikes, but I think that's cheating.

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hairylovehandles@reddit

My learner bike revved to 19k and sounded like an f1 car.

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newtonreddits@reddit

Sir this is r/cars

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gropingpriest@reddit

the pre-turbo Civic Si too. I think they redlined around 8k rpm and had decent power. they're a blast to drive

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elitemouse@reddit

Yeah my rsx type s with the k20 stock redline at 8100rpm and with kpro tune goes to 8600rpm.

Just screams with the race headers lol

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AlgernusPrime@reddit

I missed my 05 RSX-S, it was such a fun car. The drawback is that without vtec, it’s gutless and even at higher RPM, ifs still somewhat gutless but it’s so fun revving the hell out of that k20 motor.

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Boostedprius@reddit

such a great intro to high revvers the k20. it's what pushed me to get into my e92 m3

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D3f1n1t3lyN0tMyAlt@reddit

Matrix XRS, older civic SI

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Nero_Wolff@reddit

“Poors” is relative. I have a GT350 and I am closer to poverty than I am to the type of person who can buy this Ferrari F80

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gropingpriest@reddit

it feels like good used examples ought to be in the high $30s by now but unfortunately (or fortunately if you own one) they are holding their value quite well

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justin_memer@reddit

Z06 8750

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When_hop@reddit

My jdm swapped subaru revs to 9200.

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Nay2003@reddit

ej20?

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When_hop@reddit

Ej207 ver8. Stock block other than injectors and AOS.

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cloudofevil@reddit

370Z and BRZ redline at 7500 rpm too.

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onterribler@reddit

Fuck I love revving out my VQ

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iPoopAtChu@reddit

The VQ HAS to sound better in the driver seat right?? Probably the worst sounding engine I constantly hear flying by. Sounds like a drunk man playing with a trumpet.

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LaeLeaps@reddit

i just bought a g35 and was very surprised at how good it sounds from the inside even though it sounds nothing like that from the outside lmao.

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MidlandDog@reddit

rev limit like puttinng a brick in a clothes dryer

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onterribler@reddit

what does that even mean

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onterribler@reddit

I don't know, I think it sounds good. But I'm not a fan of obnoxiously loud exhaust set ups in general so if you're referring to ones with a setup like that, I would agree.

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Mojave_Idiot@reddit

Either that or it’s really common for them to have a garbage exhaust setup.

They do somehow never sound good.

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Conscious-Food1622@reddit

GR Corolla goes to 7300 iirc but the dealer markups are insane on those things

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RamenWrestler@reddit

Hasn't been markups for a while now on those. Can easily find them for MSRP or less

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sxtrailrider@reddit

Depends on your marker and local dealers. Some here in PHX still charge over MSRP. Had to go to New Mexico to get my GRC I wanted at a decent price

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Conscious-Food1622@reddit

Really? That’s a pleasant surprise

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WendysChiliAndPepsi@reddit

7500 just isn’t good enough. I owned an ND2 for a couple years and ended up selling it for an S2000.

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gropingpriest@reddit

I bought an s2k because I really missed the high redline of the older Civic Si we had in our family like 15 years ago. I made the tough decision to sell it because I really wanted a fun car I could drive year round (CO) and I find myself missing it all the time

it was so slow you could redline it all the time and not really get into trouble. but /u/savagegeese said in his video "it will legitimately feel broken until you rev it out" was so apt (comparing it to modern turbo cars I think). was not a fun grocery getter car but on the mountain roads it's an absolute blast

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srsbsnssss@reddit

jarringly short after driving ap1 but it's a much more balanced vehicle and i way prefer that

some days it wont feel as special but overall i prefer a better package

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Eric1180@reddit

Lotus Elise / Exige are 8,650 redline from the factory.

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MidlandDog@reddit

i can set a 7500 rpm limit on any engine, just might have an electrical issue when the rods take out the alternator

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alexseiji@reddit

I guess I should be grate for me 7300 rpm on my mr2 lol

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andrewjaekim@reddit

Would love an NE Miata that pushed to 8000 rpm to give us a cheap high rpm option.

It would be just close enough to be a modern S2000 imo.

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Thee_Sinner@reddit

NE chassis code is already used by the 124 Spider, next Miata will be NF

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meh_whatev@reddit

Bring back the Corolla XRS pls

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TheSilverSmith47@reddit

I'm surprised by how the 9th gen XRS is about on par with the 8th gen civic Si despite being down on power.

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When_hop@reddit

My ej207 limiter is set to 9200.

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theknyte@reddit

Well, you can drop a Hayabusa motorcycle engine into a Smart Car, and have a 14,000K Redline.

https://www.speedhunters.com/2018/07/470hp-turbo-busa-powered-smart-car/

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coffinfl0p@reddit

Best I can do is an I4 GXSR

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ob_knoxious@reddit

S2000 my beloved you were too beautiful for this world

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DanielG165@reddit

You can get a Camaro V6 with DOHC, direct injection, integrated headers, and an aluminum block that revs to 7200rpm, and makes 335 horsepower, for like… $30,000 or so these days, even less if you go a gen back.

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V4_Sleeper@reddit

as much as I love high revving engines, if it doesn't sound as good, it would be disappointing. otoh, low revving N/A cars with like LS3 Corvettes are lovely. dunno how that works

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clingbat@reddit

I wouldn't call something an automotive trend when two of your three examples cost $2 million+ lol...

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kimi_rules@reddit

Should not be surprising, it's easy to make a high-revving engine but at the cost of low-end torque, ie rotaries. It works for race cars on race tracks because they mostly sit at the top of the power band. DOHC engines mitigates this by having multiple cam profiles, but the core(piston & crank) was still designed to be streetable, that was the limitation.

Electric motors provides the low-end torque needed to get the car off the line, thus removing such limitations. Engine designers have more freedom to design the engine.

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SprackenZieEnglish@reddit

It's never been that turbo cars can't rev high (drag cars have been doing it for ages), it's that the turbos in street cars have to work well in the RPM range of everyday driving. Hybrid systems that assist that low and mid range make it a lot easier to have a turbo powertrain that can actually work well at 2k RPMs and 9k

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lowstrife@reddit

I am ready for bringing back turbo's that don't even spool until 3500

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ny0000m@reddit

My civic's turbo peaks where most engines redline lol

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FalseBuddha@reddit

Wasn't the F40 pretty well known for exactly this?

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natesully33@reddit

Yup, OEMs choose to use tiny turbos and build undersquare (long stroke) engines since that works better for driving around on the street and saving fuel. They work just fine for going fast too, really, since power is power at the end of the day and boost removes the need to rev high for airflow in the first place.

On a supercar, aesthetics matter so they likely design in smaller, higher RPM engines on purpose. Different goals.

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Renegade_Maxtah@reddit

I am a little concerned about the long-term reliability of high-revving turbocharged cars. It is, after all, stressing a lot the engine, look at Merc's A45 S engine - it is having some issues with it.

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WatchStoredInAss@reddit

The ultra-rich have no such concerns. So it shouldn't be concerning to anyone.

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DanielG165@reddit

We’re in the era of high revving high performance engines in general.

Aston Martin Valkyrie

Bugatti Tourbillon

C8 Z06

C8 ZR1

Ferrari 12C

Ferrari 296

Ferrari F80

Ferrari Purosange

Koenigsegg Jesko

Lamborghini Revuelto

Lamborghini Temerario

Mercedes AMG One

McLaren W1

Porsche GT3/RS

Porsche GT4 RS

I’m sure I’m missing some.

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FreeTheMarket@reddit

T.50 and T.30?

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GimmeChickenBlasters@reddit

We’re in the era of high revving high performance engines in general.

Supercars have had high redlines since before OBDII was a thing and have only gotten higher over the years. The only thing new is widespread forced induction. The F355 had an 8500 RPM in the mid 90's and a decade later the 458 was hitting 9k RPM's.

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newtonreddits@reddit

I'm here for it.

Looks at bank account

No I'm not actually

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humdizzle@reddit

its been done before with underground gallardos/huracans. they make huge power but its only good for a straight line since they are very laggy. it would be horrible to drive on an actual race track.

the battery assist fixes the problem of low end torque and turbo lag.

although the end product is still heavier than an LFA or Carrera GT.

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