My overworking colleagues are getting more & better work compared to me. Should I be worried?
Posted by Klutzy_Confidence_49@reddit | ExperiencedDevs | View on Reddit | 75 comments
I have 3yoe and I work at a startup. 2 of my colleagues are overworking and they are the fastest. Also, it looks like they are given better work than I am. I used to be a key part of the team but now that my manager saw potential in another product of my team, he is unavailable with his sole focus on this new product/feature.
I read on this sub that you should learn from them but not overwork yourself for your mental and physical health. But the thing is that the performance review cycle is near (in Dec) and I am worried that my performance will be flagged if I don't take any actions.
What should I do? I have already decided to leave and started my prep. Should I work hard to perform better than them until I get a better job? Need help.
BookkeeperBrilliant9@reddit
It’s okay to not be the top dog, that doesn’t mean you don’t have value.
Klutzy_Confidence_49@reddit (OP)
I want to be the top dog. My definition of top dog is that me working at an SDE 2 level with the experience of SDE 1 even though I already have 3 yoe under my belt but the work I am getting (in fact my whole team) is of SDE 1.
valkon_gr@reddit
You are so focused on titles. They don't matter on this level.
Klutzy_Confidence_49@reddit (OP)
I don’t know why people are downvoting me. I have been in this company for a little over 2 years and I believe that I am perfectly capable of delivering mid sized products from scratch. But the work I am doing rn is writing pass through apis. The architect themselves said that team is doing nothing solid apart from serving a bunch of Apis that act as a proxy. That’s why I said that I want to work at an SDE 2 level. Meaning that I want to come up with solutions for problems that involve (not too) complex architectures, own product(s), contribute to the revenue along with the usual soft skills. Hope you got what I am trying to say.
lucifer605@reddit
Have you tried to have this conversation with your manager? Instead of coming up with your own theories - I would bring this up in the next 1:1. Share your concerns and ask him. Performance reviews should not be a surprise.
Also, ask him what it would take for you to get promoted to the next level.
Getting from SDE 1 to SDE 2 is generally pretty straightforward so if you aren't sure where you stand - it might be more to do with your manager.
It is better to find out sooner rather than later where you stand.
Klutzy_Confidence_49@reddit (OP)
Yes, I tried. Many times in fact. Part of me not seeing growth is the kind of work my team is doing. It is limited and there are many devs so after distribution it becomes small. It is a team level problem IMO. Switching teams is not possible in my company as well.
We have a flat hierarchy here. So everyone is a software engineer. But the differentiating factors are the responsibilities one holds.
lucifer605@reddit
If you have already had this conversation with your manager and he is not willing to help you , it might be time to start looking elsewhere.
This is something you can't solve on your own - you need your managers help and support. I learned this pretty late as well. It is your manager's job to find more opportunities for you to grow.
WranglerNo7097@reddit
Since you seem like you really want the answer, and no one is actually giving it: It's because Reddit is full of mids, and constantly will push you to stay one as well. There are two ways to stand out at work: 1) be naturally better or 2) work harder. By definition, most people aren't naturally better, so if you want it, it's got to be (2). I know no one gives a fuck, but I went from leaning how to code in \~2014, to being a staff engineer at a very prestigious company by 2021. I'm kinda smart, just like everyone else I work with, but I'm very good at staying aligned with who butters my bread and always delivering on what they need, full stop. It's as simple as that.
SpecialistNo8436@reddit
If you want to be a top dog, you have to overwork
Bad advice? Maybe, but real
You cant expect to grow huge hitting the gym 3 times a week
Equally, you can’t expect to raise as a dev without investing heavily in day hours
This can (and should) be done with courses and regular study too, but overworking is other way to “put in” the hours
Klutzy_Confidence_49@reddit (OP)
I am in fact ready to put in more hours (be it work hours or outside of work hours) if it helps me in my professional growth. Not sure why people kept downvoting me left, right, and center. The thing I wrote above is taken from r/developersIndia and it felt that to be true.
SpecialistNo8436@reddit
There is a heavy resentment due to the layoffs, people who put the hours and gave everything still got layoff
Hence they regret “wasting” all that time
But that doesn’t make it less true that you have to put in the hours to be good at something, just be cleaver, if you are clearly not favored by your managers, move somewhere else and start again, no point in trying to change somebody’s image of you, takes extra effort for low returns
bippityboppityboo_69@reddit
How do you know they're overworking?
Klutzy_Confidence_49@reddit (OP)
One of the devs usually sends me approvals requests on sundays. She legit worked at the airport during the layover.
goodmammajamma@reddit
so, not organized enough to send approval requests during business hours.
pixelboots@reddit
Are you sure she's working all regular business hours as well though? I occasionally work on a weekend because it suits me, because I want or need to take a few hours out during the following week (or did the previous week). And I'd absolutely work at an airport during a layover if I didn't have much else to do - but I'd take the time back some other day. Are you certain she isn't doing things like this?
turtleProphet@reddit
tbf I do find behavior like OP has described from coworkers a little insensitive. I also prefer to work on my own time—sometimes the mental block clears on the weekend, and I can't control that. But PRs and notes for your teammates should go out during business hours
'high-performance' cultures can be draining because they promote exactly that kind of behavior—it's not enough to work hard; everyone else has to know you're up plugging bugs on the weekend
Klutzy_Confidence_49@reddit (OP)
Yeah, I am certain she isn't doing like this. She works early in the mornings right till midnight. I have seen her committing code during odd hours. I am not complaining about her. Maybe it works for her.
Even I worked at the airport during a layover because I want to finish my work for that day and I had some free time.
Mental-Work-354@reddit
Sounds performative. Good devs that are confident in their skills and don’t do this shit. I’ll occasionally work on a weekend but I absolutely don’t send out PRs or slack messages after hours. Try to identify areas they are week in and focus on demonstrating results and strengths in those areas in a healthy way.
JamzWhilmm@reddit
Can confirm, due to being a master of none I suck at my job and have to compensate by working nights and weekends.
AdministrativeBlock0@reddit
You can't avoid this problem by leaving. Every company has people who are happy to put in more hours than the rest.
The way to address the problem is to make sure your manager is aware that you do 37 hours of high quality work every week. You need to make sure you deliver well written code, with tests, and documentation, that's bug-free and meets the acceptance criteria. You need to speak up in dailys. You need to actively participate in planning. You need to communicate early and often if you're blocked, and make sure stakeholders are aware if things change. If you see problems you should notify your manager, suggest solutions, and (if appropriate) fix them. You should be looking at things like DORA metrics and making sure your numbers are great.
Basically, think like a manager and do the things a manager wants to see. I guarantee you that every manager in the world would rather have a great dev who's proactive and communicates well over my number of people who work long hours.
Make your manager's life easier and they will reward you for it.
One thing to note though, if the people putting in the long hours are also good at this other stuff, you'll never compete with them. They're just better.
goodmammajamma@reddit
luckily, that's almost never the case. Nobody who's feeling secure in their abilities is going to put in crazy hours when they don't have to.
MrThunderizer@reddit
I think this is the most generally applicable answer. If you work in a startup culture than nothing is going to beat velocity. If you work for an established company you're notmally judged much more heavily for mistakes than a lack of productivity.
Klutzy_Confidence_49@reddit (OP)
This helped. Thanks a lot.
gillzj00@reddit
Sounds like you might be over thinking a little. If your review cycle is in December I don’t think there is much you can do to influence your review in the next few weeks. Work hard but don’t stress yourself out. With 3 YOE you have plenty of career left to burn yourself out.
If your review doesn’t go well then you can make a decision. Do you want to compete with these other engineers and do the heroics, do you want to accept that you’re just an adequate engineer and enjoy your job and life outside of work, or is your company too demanding and you want to look elsewhere? I wouldn’t worry too much about it until you get the review.
I’ve got 13 YOE and throughout my career Ive had years where I was an overachiever trying to get promoted or stand out, and I had years I was just happy to fly under the radar and get a satisfactory level review. You can’t sprint a marathon, sometimes a jog or even a walk is acceptable.
ElCthuluIncognito@reddit
To add to this, and this crosses into ULPT territory, when you fly under the radar you sometimes end up outlasting these high octane devs. As they burnout, your steady presence can stand out. Obviously don’t count on it, but I’ve been in such situations more than once.
certified_fkin_idiot@reddit
Don't think that's unethical in the slightest way.
space_paradox_ai@reddit
Devs that burnout tend to switch companies, I've seen it many times. You see someone that is an overachiever and from one day to another, leaves... Too much stress makes you frustrated more easily and wanting to make a move.
EncroachingTsunami@reddit
Built a product this year. Then a coworker launched it. Now I get all the operational questions and baggage of the product and he gets the career progress of the delivery. I’m pretty checked out.
leafnugget2@reddit
Since you’ve decided you’re leaving, there’s not too much point to work harder.
one thing to look out for the same thing happening in your next role. There will always be a harder working, hungrier developer.
when you’re in a startup, you’re growing and the company around you is growing (eg more code is written, new products, etc)
And people generally fall on a spectrum between: * people who are fast, their learnings/growth outpace the companies growth. They’ll get best opportunities, bc they’re available and trusted on the best/sexiest/most growing opportunities. And this creates a virtuous cycle where the ly continue to grow/learn. These are the rising stars. They gobble up areas of responsibility and are shoe ins for promotions, and leadership opportunities. * people who are slow. Their learnings can’t keep up with the companies growth. They feel like there’s always new things other teams on that they have no clue about despite being at the startup for years. They feel underwater with their current work, and they can’t peak their heads up, so they don’t learn the higher level context necessary to get better. These people get isolated into smaller and smaller roles and eventually get exited from company.
Klutzy_Confidence_49@reddit (OP)
Reading this really helped. I felt like I am somewhere between the first two types.
leafnugget2@reddit
Think back to your 1:1s and think, do you say:
Or: * this was more complicated than I thought * I’m running behind on my tasks * I’m near max capacity
If you say more of the former, your manager has to find you more work, often times more interesting/challenging work.
If you say more of the latter, your manager is being a good manager by taking it easy and not overwhelming you.
The best way to show your manager that you’re up for more is to consistently do you work ahead of schedule.
Klutzy_Confidence_49@reddit (OP)
I have always said the first two statements in the first list. I have scheduled a call with him tomorrow after making this post. I will ask him for better challenging and exciting work.
leafnugget2@reddit
It could be that the company simply doesn't have interesting work for you to do. If so, then switching jobs sounds like the right move!
And I totally agree that first few years you should work hard to grow exponentially.
One more angle that you can look at it from is that: as you go up the leadership chain, the thing that people care about more is ultimately the business (aka increase revenue and decrease costs).
If you go to your manager and say, hey I want to do XYZ because i find high volume work more interesting and improves my technical skills, it's probably not going to interest them inherently. They still might provide you the opportunity because they want to keep you around.
Whereas if you go to your manager, hey I think doing XYZ will help me grow and decrease costs by 10k/month, or help you hit your quarterly goals because ABC. That shows initiative, and awareness of the business context - and I bet will be received much better. Essentially, how does what you want align with what your manager wants and what the company leadership wants?
Ofc that is all assuming that you work for a competent management team :) If they're not, then that's a +1 to leaving being the best choice!
Empanatacion@reddit
You've been at that job too long regardless, so don't worry about your review or advancement.
You should job hop more early in your career. Your priority should be on getting marketable experience that you don't yet have. Try to impress the next hiring manager, not your current boss. Volunteer for things you don't yet know how to do, not what has "high impact."
My advice is usually 3-5 jobs in your first five years. It's the fastest path to a raise and title bump and you learn more.
When I see job hopping on someone's resume early in their career, my impression is "quick learner" not "disloyal."
Comprehensive-Pea812@reddit
so they are getting results from their hard work what is wrong with that?
I used to do research outside work, so my total working time might be 50% more. as consequences I was always appointed as leader because I simply learned faster and knows more than my colleagues.
overwork is subjective.
if you sacrifice sleep, yes it is unhealthy.
if you sacrifice unproductive things like doom scrolling, yes you might as well allocate that time to learn more and improve your standing.
if you don't enjoy your work, yes it is straining your mental health.
I know many people stressed out themselves from working normally for 8 hours and can only focus at most 4 hours a day. these people are addicted to internet browsing, idle chat and doom scrolling. and yeah I am not in this category.
Quanramiro@reddit
If it's not your company then therecis no point in overtime. Assuming you don't need extra money you only ruin your health and private life.
I had an situation like that. My whole team started to work much longer than me, without any special reason. When I was getting to the office, they were already there. When I was leaving, there was nobody leaving with me. After few months project has ended (delivered to the customer, customar happy) and nobody gave a flying fu.ck. They were not even paid for that because nobody offically requested the overtime
1One2Twenty2Two@reddit
Don't let this become a self fulfilling prophecy. Wait until your performance review. You might realize that there is absolutely nothing wrong with your performance. The fact that your colleagues are overachievers does not mean that your work isn't good.
roctez@reddit
They’ll leave to find themselves in unemployment for 12 months in this economy.
texruska@reddit
It's unlikely here but this is why I dislike stack ranking (arm did it when I worked there). In reality you can good excellent work but if somebody nolifes it...
tenakthtech@reddit
*nullifies
eggeggplantplant@reddit
Nolifing is an internet term, overworking or overplaying a game - like you have no life
tenakthtech@reddit
Hey, thanks for clarifying that. I totally misunderstood.
luna87@reddit
Amazon has entered the chat
Healthy_Razzmatazz38@reddit
you already decided to leave, so the answer to your question is no.
Theres a hell of a lot more going on here, but you're hostile to it in the comments, so you'll end up where ever you do.
Klutzy_Confidence_49@reddit (OP)
Hostile? Where? I wasn't even trying to. Sorry if I came across as hostile or arrogant but I am not.
Hot-Profession4091@reddit
Do you have an equity stake?
If not, do your work and go home. If anyone says anything about it, tell them “If you want me to work like a founder, I need the financial benefits of being a founder.”
Of course, be ready to work like you’ve never worked before if they say “ok”.
NiteShdw@reddit
You WANT more work?
Klutzy_Confidence_49@reddit (OP)
I mean, any work is better than the work I am doing. I only write services the orchestrate things like calling other services. The quality has been degraded. But according to what they are telling me, they are working on things from the ground up. I asked my manager to move me into this feature but he said no.
MuffinForward@reddit
Sounds like you need to find yourself a challenge again. You mentioned the quality had been degrading, what about improving the quality and prove your worth? This definitely could be a challenge.
Revlisstyle@reddit
Yes I agree with this. Focus on improving or developing more process that improve quality or streamline procedures. Take the initiative. Also while doing your work, ask one of the performers that you look up to and ask them if you can shadow them for half an hour or 1 hour for 2 days out of the week. Look for areas where you are taking initiative and grab the bull by the horns.
g4rthv4d3r@reddit
You need to tell your manager you want more exciting projects.
Rough-Yard5642@reddit
How do you know they are overworking? I feel like the “over” part is highly subjective and depends on the person.
Klutzy_Confidence_49@reddit (OP)
One of the devs usually sends me approvals requests on sundays. She legit worked at the airport during the layover. The other guy wake up as early as 5am till 2 am (sometimes) and works.
OELIsLife@reddit
What’s wrong with working over a layover? I do that all the time, it’s not like you have anything else to do while your stuck at an airport
Klutzy_Confidence_49@reddit (OP)
That day was a Sunday.
g4rthv4d3r@reddit
So? It's still making use of time that would otherwise be lost.
wachulein@reddit
I think I wrote this. How do I manage it? I don't, but I've learn to deal with it more now. Part of it was an acceptance that this year I was just average, and they need my average, as I didn't get any complains for it. Overachievers can get mad at you though if they don't get what they're looking for, but that's not my problem.
Klutzy_Confidence_49@reddit (OP)
With these overworkers in my team I feel like I am slacking off even though my manager is very confident in me if I am assigned any work I get it done before the deadlines. Due to the minimal to no exciting work he is assigning me I think my days are super unproductive with 0 motivation to move forward or learn new things/upskilling at work. Not sure what to do.
bored-to-death@reddit
When you can’t get growth opportunities it’s definitely time to bounce. You’re worrying about your team members too much and I doubt anyone notices - it’d probably take several more months before it becomes an issue. You have the right idea to start your prep and I’d recommend targeting January for active applying because Nov-Dec is typically tough for early in the search.
FoxRadiant814@reddit
At 3yoe, yes, you should overwork yourself and become the best developer you can be. That’s still very junior and it’ll benefit you in the long run and in the short run.
Gammusbert@reddit
You’re right, especially in a start up.
This sub has a very pro-coasting sentiment.
InfiniteMonorail@reddit
It's the kids and the Europeans. Americans still have that Protestant work ethic, even when they're not religious. The company had better be paying overtime though.
Kooky_Tooth_4990@reddit
I’m a card-carrying U.S. Lutheran, and I still believe in free time. I’m taking my time to make tasty meals and work out, and I’ll be 60 years old running and laughing while these fools rot away behind that screen.
What’s their last words gonna be?
“At least I increased the GDP?”
InfiniteMonorail@reddit
That's still working hard though. It's not like you're quiet quitting at your job, then lying around the house. I mean, you're glowing with pride. Now ask the kids and Europeans. They'll say the same thing but there won't be a hobby or exercise; it'll be some rant about socialism instead. Maybe they'll even cry about how they deserve a free education at work too, even though they hate learning.
Not everyone is fortunate enough to leave money on the table though. If you have this luxury, then you've already made it.
bashar_al_assad@reddit
I must admit that "Europeans don't have hobbies or exercise because they're too busy talking about socialism" is a new one for me.
fojam@reddit
Horrible advice. It's literally called over-work. As in too much work. It's a word for a reason.
FoxRadiant814@reddit
What is overwork?
I became burnt out after overwork before, so I know how it is.
But I also benefited greatly from overwork in terms of skill and professional success.
You gotta grind, its the only way to be your best self. Just not forever.
fojam@reddit
Grinding and overwork aren't the same thing.
FoxRadiant814@reddit
I'm still not sure what he means by overwork. But I'd say he's most likely just saying number of hours. I think he should work daily as long as he has to get good. Until he's fast enough that he doesn't have to work that long to meet the same quota.
pwnasaurus11@reddit
100% agree. When you’re young is when you want to put in the reps and become great at what you do.
FoxRadiant814@reddit
Gotta put in the reps
dryiceboy@reddit
Careers and life in general is a marathon, not a sprint (no pun intended).
AngusAlThor@reddit
If you are already planning to leave, you should not overwork, you should just make sure you have a positive relationship with your manager for the purposes of getting a reference.
That said, you are early in your career and in a startup environment, and this is the one time it can be worth it to do a little overwork; Startups will let people with minimal experience touch things that no enterprise company would let you near, like auth and devops structure, so it can be a chance to grab experience others won't have.
StrikingEnd9551@reddit
Focus more on the impact of your work rather than working more hours. Find ways to improve your visibility and sell the work you’ve done within the organization.
You should still have weekly 1:1s with your manager. In your next meeting, talk with your them about getting better work that is aligned with your interests.
Darkseid_Omega@reddit
It’s a startup, there is no such thing as “overworking” in that context