Question about speed restrictions in the US
Posted by WastingMyTime8@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 44 comments
I know there is a speed restriction of max 200 KTS within 4 miles and 2500 feet of an airport in class C or D airspace. Does this apply to departing aircraft?
ApprehensiveVirus217@reddit
All aircraft within 4nm and 2,500’ AGL of the PRIMARY airport in a Class C/D airspace area. A lot of guys bust this with low initial altitudes on departure.
Also of note, this is the only speed restriction in 91.117 that ATC can authorize you to exceed. Perhaps contrary to popular belief, they cannot authorize you more than 250 below 10 or more than 200 below class b / within a VFR corridor.
You could of course exceed these during an emergency.
In my previous life as a safety analyst at a large airline, there was a debate at one point if a medical emergency conveyed the same protections to the crew for violating 91.117. I don’t remember what the outcome was.
WhiteoutDota@reddit
It is shocking to me the number of people who don't understand that ATC can't authorize more than 250KIAS below 10k. I bet some controllers don't know they can't either, so it's up to pilots to not accept clearances that aren't legal.
JPAV8R@reddit
In the US the 74 regularly needs to climb at faster than 250. Unless there is a SID constraint preventing it it’s usually understood that we will be above 250
WhiteoutDota@reddit
(d) If the minimum safe airspeed for any particular operation is greater than the maximum speed prescribed in this section, the aircraft may be operated at that minimum speed.
I assume that is to be compliant with this? That, or the FAA has provided an exception for that plane in some manner as stated in:
(a) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, no person may operate an aircraft below 10,000 feet MSL at an indicated airspeed of more than 250 knots (288 m.p.h.)
JPAV8R@reddit
Yeah. I’m just responding to the folks that are of the 200/250 or else crowd. They talk of it like it’s a wall in the sky.
dmspilot00@reddit
I had to file an ASAP because DEN assigned us 250 knots on departure. We thought they wanted us to go as fast as possible, turned out they wanted us to NOT go fast above 10,000.
jabbs72@reddit
you should try that out of ORD
dmspilot00@reddit
Try what?
jabbs72@reddit
Not going 250
dmspilot00@reddit
They always keep you at 250? Until what altitude?
XxVcVxX@reddit
They can't authorize it, but you can do it if your plane requires it. It's usually just courtesy to ask since ATC might not expect it.
WhiteoutDota@reddit
Are there many planes that can't safely fly below 250KIAS?
XxVcVxX@reddit
Most widebodies, when fully loaded, have min clean speeds above 250.
LaggingIndicator@reddit
I flew with a real prick who loved asking for permission to fly fast. ATC would give it to him and he’d climb out at 325 at like 7,000 feet. Thankfully I did it out of Miami and we were out over the ocean, but like why? Burn a fuck ton of gas to save 1 minute and be surrounded by bugsmashers.
ApprehensiveVirus217@reddit
Similar vibe: A lot of guys at my company file and fly the 605 at .82. The time difference on a 3 hour flight amounts to under five minutes but you’ll burn about 1000 lbs more gas. They’ll still do it every time.
Real-Stock2002@reddit
I don’t know, an extra 1000 pounds of fuel is not really all that much in the big scheme of things. But yeah, similar vibe really grinds your gears does it? Lol.
Real-Stock2002@reddit
The same reason the nascar pace car was delivered via CH-47. I don’t understand the need to be upset at someone who requested and was granted something out of the ordinary.
usmcmech@reddit
Re: medical emergency
Nothing you can do to shave 3 minutes off the "time till Paramedics" will matter one bit. Just fly normally.
Icy_Huckleberry_8049@reddit
No where does it say arriving aircraft only. It states "aircraft" which means ALL aircraft, departing, arriving, transitioning, etc.
bhalter80@reddit
Not sure what you have that has a climb out speed of 200 or would be leveled out going 250 at 2500AGL
ComprehensiveEar7218@reddit
I've flown plenty of airplanes that we had to watch airspeed on departure.
bhalter80@reddit
As opposed to pitching up more and climbing faster?
XxVcVxX@reddit
Sometimes it's because you literally have to have flaps 15 or greater out just to maintain 200.
ComprehensiveEar7218@reddit
When you're climbing at 5000 fpm that's not really an option.
Yesthisisme50@reddit
Not smart when you’re going to cause an RA because you’re 5000 fpm in a climb
LowTBigD@reddit
I’m literally not allowed to go slower than 210 sometimes on takeoff unless I put flaps out and I’m not doing that. So…
x4457@reddit
Literally every non-VLJ jet departing every Class C or D airport.
bhalter80@reddit
And today I learned, thank you
x4457@reddit
For reference, a 200 knot initial climb in the Sovereign is about 20 degrees nose up. My normal climb is 250, which is about 10 degrees.
I could pull the power back to do 200 at 10 degrees but I'm a firm believer in getting up and out of the 2500 range quickly, then just pitch for 250.
Circumstances change that. Nervous flier in the back, airspace, traffic, etc.
irishluck949@reddit
Like every airliner
Yesthisisme50@reddit
A 737
JPAV8R@reddit
In the 74 operational necessity allows for climbs above 250kts before 10000ft.
boobooaboo@reddit
Sure, but in reality it’s broken a lot. Lookin at you, southwest
dmspilot00@reddit
Yes, but the number of pilots I fly with, many of them captains, that don't follow this rule is aggravating.
HighFive2022@reddit
To mitigate this threat in the A320, we typically enter a preselected speed of 195 for climb. That way, you can clean up to Flaps 1, and be comfortably within the airspace and flap speed limitations. Once above the required altitude accelerate to 250 and climb out normally. Canada has similar restrictions. Something like 3000 agl and 10 miles is limited to 200 knots.
capn_davey@reddit
By the time you’re flying a jet you should know basic airmanship. The fact that so many people flying jets don’t know how to comply with a FAR without inducing undesirable aircraft states makes me question my generation’s flight training.
WastingMyTime8@reddit (OP)
Well you sound fun to fly with.
capn_davey@reddit
This thread has turned into an exhibit of ignorance of pitch+power=performance. Basic attitude instrument flying.
Altruistic_Apple_252@reddit
Yes. Yes, it has.
sdgmusic96@reddit
Just because it applies, doesn't mean it's followed
Mr-Plop@reddit
Si!
x4457@reddit
It applies to all aircraft unless operationally necessary to exceed it or an approved request for relief.
prex10@reddit
Yes
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
I know there is a speed restriction of max 200 KTS within 4 miles and 2500 feet of an airport in class C or D airspace. Does this apply to departing aircraft?
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